November 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Jason Pine returns to recap a full day in the world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
Rugby analyst John Haggart unpacks where the All Blacks went wrong.
Outgoing Hurricanes CEO Avan Lee reveals why he's stepping down.
Piney's Power Rankings!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk s ed Boon.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good evening, Bockerman. This is Monday night sports Talk on
news Talks edb November seventeen, Happy thirty ninth birthday to
rugby union and rugby league star Carmichael Hunt and one
of our greatest Test batsman and the description certainly fits
Bert Sutcliffe born on this date in nineteen twenty three.
(00:44):
I'm Jason pine Shaw, Producers Andy McDonald. We're going to
talk sport with you until eight. One story of course,
dominating the sports news landscape over the weekend. Your Black
fla flam has been Flaming.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Day Day nineteen.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
They all Lacks losing to England for the first time
in a Test match in five years, at Twickenham for
the first time in thirteen years, and for just the
second time in twenty three years in the UK. The
reaction has been wide ranging and across the various aspects
of the game and from a wider sense the All
Blacks and the team's coaches. What we've landed on specifically
(01:29):
tonight is the side's attack. Former elite player and top
level coach John Hackett is standing by to chat with
us the attack of the side. Is it something that
needs specific attention or is it just one of a
number of things that should require examination over the next
few months as we get ready for twenty twenty six.
(01:50):
I know there's another test to go and maybe we
can talk about that as well. But having had thirty
six hours to mullet over keen to get your front
of mind views as well. We tried to get everybody
on the radio yesterday. We had absolutely no hope of
doing that during weekend sports Soap. A bit of residual
mop up talk backed night on the show Lines Open
across the hour on the Rugby also tonight, the Hurricanes
(02:11):
are on the lookout for a new CEO. Longtime boss
Avon Lee has resigned. He'll leave the organization at the
end of this month. He's going to join us for
a chat about that decision and how he thinks the
Hurricanes are placed to move on without him. At the
Helm and on Monday nights, we rate the weekend Piney's
Power rankings the best, the worst and the in between
from the sporting weekend before we end the show at eight,
(02:34):
Please jump aboard if you would like to the number
never changes eight hundred and eighty ten eighty to free
call nine two ninety two for your text messages. Normal
charges apply emails and to Jason at Newstalk SAB dot
co dot Nz just gone nine past seven.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Forget the refs call you make a call on eight
eighty eighty Sports Talk on your home of Sport News
Talk SAB talks b.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
All out the back vote and Barrett Quins to pipe.
They've got numbers, They've got Pony Taylor on the left wing,
tailor ahead. It's the All Black seconds. Yeah. At that point,
once the kick win over twelve zero, things were looking good,
but not too much from an attacking sense. Beyond that,
plenty of reaction to the All Blacks thirty three nineteen
(03:19):
defeat to England at Twickenam yesterday morning. As I say,
but I did want to zero win on the side's
attack and how much work needs to be done in
that particular area. So to that end, let's bring in
former Otago centurion at first five and second five and
former assistant coach with Canterbury, John Hagitt, who these days
provides expert analysis in our rugby commentaries in christ Church. John,
(03:43):
thanks for taking the time tonight. Let's start in general terms.
What is your assessment of the All Blacks attack right now?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Jee Punty. Yeah, it's a bit of a chonging one,
isn't it. Certainly you go up north and you play
some pretty good teams. But you know, throughout the year,
if you've given it a grade out of teen, it
would be around about the six to certainly attacks being
average at best.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It needs to improve, and we've got a wee way
to go in terms of those improvements. What specifically needs
to improve.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Well, I think you know, there's nothing wrong to set
piece like the game. Yes, it's changed, but it hasn't
changed that much. The principles of the game are still
very much the same. Yeah, you win a good set
piece ball, you go forward, you try and identify and
correct space shift it quickly and go again. And I
think for us, it's the ability for us to identify
(04:39):
that space shift it quickly, recycle that ball and give
people opportunities, you know, whether they can either have a
one on one or at the least and attack a
week's shoulder. So I think a lot of it's it
needs a lot of it's really scripted, you know, I
think we need to look at how we strike to
start with, and certain zones of the field we've tend
(05:00):
to be gone into this because we were in this
part of the field we like to okay, kick the
ball or put the ball in the end. Now that's
not one of our strengths, then why are we trying
to do it? So we need to look at where
our strengths lie and put the ball into into those players'
hands as quickly as possible can.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Attacking formations strategies sometimes be too structured.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Well absolutely, I mean we talk about you know, playing
eyes up rugby. We play we have to we have
to learn to play with a lot of chaos and
at the moment because of our structure off in our pods,
where we're missing the opportunities that are actually presented in
front of us. Whether it's sort of krick kicking behind
it's a snap back on the blind side, well it's
(05:44):
a peck can go through the middle. We actually have
to play what's in front of us. And and you know,
to be fair on the all blacks, they get to
finished products. So we've got to look at our coaching
system and how we're playing, and you know, we're finding
now that we're playing nations that have come through the
same sort of systems the pathways is what we had,
but physically as strong and as effective as us, and
in fact sometimes a better coach than us. So we
(06:05):
have to, you know, we have to be better in
those spaces.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So is there a balance to be struck between having
structure because you do need it, you can't just you know,
be completely unstructured, but also striking that balance between as
you call it, eyes up rugby, playing what you see
and allowing players who have the ability to create something
out of nothing in an unpredictable fashion to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think in Zellan we've got an absolute of artage,
you know, our DNA as such as that we like
to play with a ball in hand, and we'll like
to flood, play with tempo.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
No, then we need to go away from that.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I think we need to probably get back to that
and look at some of the you know, our players,
you know the strategies of this world. You find nucleus,
you know, they get the ball in their hands and
they can do anything for us. So, yes, we have
to have a bit of structure. There's no doubt about that.
But we also have to be able to break, you know,
when it breaks down, just play rugby, and and I
(06:58):
think we're we're not as effective as that as we
should be. I think, you know, Raiser, for example, when
I watched the Crusaders things I get tactics from there,
from inside the twenty two had special line outs. We're
not probably seeing quite enough of that at the internet
for Remol. I'm not sure whether it's because they are
froze and a little bit because of it's such it
seemed to be so much you know, at stake, or
(07:21):
whether it's just the you know, they're not prepared to
try that.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
How challenging are modern day defenses to penetrate because they've
improved too, haven't they?
Speaker 6 (07:29):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Absolutely? And I think we could get the fact that,
you know, the dimensions of the rugu feel have not changed.
But if we look at the physical makeup of the
individual from you know, right back in the Invincibles where
you know you're you're forward if you were twelve stone
at best, that he's the biggest man. Well, now you've
got your halfbacks that are bigger them than you know,
seven eighty kgs. So their ability to cover ground defensively
(07:52):
has increased so much, so of course there's a whole
lot less space to attack because the defenses are so good,
and also with the analysis that defensive coaches put into
the game. So absolutely, admittedly it is very much, very
difficult to attack can find space, but sides are doing that.
Sides are able to analyze opposition and then find a
(08:13):
way through, and I think we're still we're still a
way way away from that ourselves to be able to
do that effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
In terms of the responsibility within a coaching group, how much, say,
would a head coach typically have over the attack or
would they leave it almost entirely in the hands of
their specialist attack coach.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
That's a good question, Piney. I think it really depends
very much on the makeup of your coaching group, how
they get on individuals involved. So you know, I can't
speak for the all backs and how they would operate,
but you'd like to think that if you're responsible for
a portfolio such as attack, then you're pretty much you know,
you go out there and you run it the way
you see it should happen, and of course there'll be
(08:54):
conversations going on in the background and I'm sure raised
you trusts his attack. I'm sure he asks you questions,
lots of questions. And it's also not easy to always
get it right. You can go out with your dislaid plans,
but on the day at the opposition that you're playing,
they've got a defense that's better than yours. It's counted
some of your so called A text strategy that you
(09:17):
wanted to put into place. Then you are going to
be on the back foot. So it doesn't always work,
and that's where you've got to have the experience of
the players on the field to say, hey, Plan A
is not working. What do we do now to try
and correct space? And it might be that they go
back to I don't know, a kicking in behind game,
or an ability to go to the middle or rather
than go to the edge. So it just depends.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Do you think modern day players or the majority of
modern day players can play what they see, can make
decisions on the field once they reach provincial, super and
then test level.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I think it takes time. Years ago, the only thing
that you watched on television was rugby, and now a
young people today are growing up not watching the game
at all. The watching a game it's NBA or it's league.
So the ability for them to understand and study of
the game has probably been reduced, Yes, a bit of
there in professional environment, so they're getting probably a lot
(10:11):
more attention from coaches. But yeah, it's challenging, and I
think also we've got to get their players time they're
come out. We pick a lot of players at twenty
twenty one, twenty two, Well most of those boards will
not play the this rugged until a sort of you know,
mid mid twenties to you know, late twenties, and that's
when they really can start understanding the game and starting
to rely on the experience to make the right decisions.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And what a rugby team and specifically a backline team
to typically split their prep time that they're preparing for
a big game. Will they split their prep time fifty
to fifty between attack and defense typically?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Again, another really good question. I think we've probably overloaded
how much time would us to spend on attack? But
now in the professional environment, they're very much you know,
they'll look at the components of the game, the set piece,
the kicking strategy, the attack with ball in hand, the contacts.
You know, a lot of detail, a lot of work
goes into into those areas, so certainly they would get
(11:11):
a plenty of time, more time than probably the most
to work on their attack. In conversely, you know, depends,
it depends on the on the makeup of the team
and what the needs are for that week for that
particular team based on what happened the previous.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Week off them.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Really interesting John, interesting stuff. So how do I mean
we all want the All Blacks to win every time
they play. We know that they're in a bit of
a challenging situation right now and yesterday was the latest,
the latest example of that. How do you feel about
the All Blacks optimism wise midway through the World Cup cycle?
Speaker 7 (11:44):
Yeah, it's I mean, I think I think you just
said it.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
You know, we we expect you'll get to win every game,
but the reality is they're not going to win every
game and they're going to have a few pickups along
the road. Now, they won the World Cup on a
couple of years time, that's all we've forgotten. So you know,
we've heard some commentary around have they gone backwards since
Pozzi's time? Well, I don't think they've gone backwards. I
think what he has, what rais has done really well.
Is is he's not a wide group of players that
(12:11):
can play test that shrugby so you know, yes to yeah,
you used to used to play your match day twenty
three and that was that all we're not. We've got
game time, so I think we've got a lot more
players now that a lot of countries that have had
some test match experience. So I'm confident, I'm optimistic that
what we're doing is right. I think, yes, we've got
to obviously tweak a few things and be a bit
(12:32):
better in some of our things, like our discipline. You know,
we have lost a lot of the critical moments this year,
and critical moments in the game, because that's the close
are absolutely crucial. You know, you're just you're up twelve
and up to seventeen in the last three test makes
this You've got to know the next job. You've got
to be able to put sides away. And we're not
learning from that. Then we will struggle at the test
(12:53):
back at World Cup in a couple of years time,
but I'm confident that will be two years more experienced
in that time and we'll come out with a pretty
good side that will be ready to win that World
cup again.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Really interesting chat rugby with you, John, Thanks so much
for taking the time tonight. Ye funny, Thanks John, John Haggitt.
Line's open to talk some rugby tonight. Oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. You're welcome to pick up on
anything you heard there from John Haggitt, who is, as
you can tell, one of the more astute rugby analysts
going around. Comes from a playing point of view, a
(13:25):
coaching point of view. If the attack is something you'd
like to pass comments on, that would be welcome. But
it's by no means the only question that's been raised
after yesterday. Of course, it's not the only area that
needs addressing. If there's something in particular that's been gnawing
away at you today, here's your chance to give voice
to it. You may have tried to get through yesterday
without any success. It does tend to get pretty busy
(13:46):
on the phones on the weekends, particularly after an All
Blacks test match. There are some clearer air tonight, or
the phones are starting to ring, and we often get
more reasoned, measured conversation once we've given the game a
bit of time. Debrief not always, not always, and you
may still be fueled by emotion as much as logic.
(14:06):
But that's okay, these are the All Blacks. Oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty Graham, I thought you'd I
thought you'd abandoned me and the show.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Oh, I know, I know, I think too busy out
celebrating Kennedy winning the in for you see yeh.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Jee that's a that's a long celebration. But I think
it's so.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
I haven't been celebrated. I haven't. Yeah, the All Black Yeah,
I haven't diverted the show, Jason. It's just busy Sundays
and you've you've got you've seen to be the most
popular man in between twelve and two in the New
Zealand's at that time. So yeah, no, great interview with
John Haggart. He's a great rugby thinker and yeah agreed,
(14:49):
Yeah absolutely, I've seen him in action down here when
he came up from a targo. But yeah, I just
think a point like to make about attacks, and I mean,
I mean, I'll be I'm pretty disappointed as Razor. You know,
I'll get that. I'll probably told other hostless. But you know,
the selections of found too conservative last year and then
(15:11):
this year it seems a bit the fuddle. But you know,
I remember the story Wayne Smith told after what Alex
Wyley died earlier this year, and it's in his box
and he was in between canterbur and Auckham the plane
in eighty three. It was the year we beat them,
two years before we lost to them, and they had
a game plan and while he sat, poked them in
(15:31):
the chest and said run it from everywhere, and that
was about that's run on the field. And I think
the lesson with that comment, that's not the sort of
thing that happens nowadays. I think, especially at international level,
coaches are too. Like John alluded to the things he's
doing with the Crusaders. I know it's a different level international,
(15:54):
but he seems to have come and gone to a shell.
I think there's the loss's mount. You know, you get
less confidence, his tears have lost confidence in doing something innovatives.
And yeah, I mean that idea of just changing the
game plan all of a sudden, you know, the French
to it we used to be. You know, we've all
(16:14):
seen tests against the All Blacks and they've just transformed
from what's from being useless to brilliance. That type of
things not seemingly at international level has been lost in
the All Blacks system over the last few years. And
both Ian and Scott robertson.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, it's a great point, Grahame, and and listening to
John talk there about about structure, and we all agree, right,
the game can't just be you can't just you know,
throw fifteen guys out there. As much as I take
what Gris said, you know, just run it from anywhere.
You know, that's not a strategy, a consistently winning strategy,
but what it is as part of I believe anyway,
(16:54):
what's been lost that that there isn't as much innovative
off the cuff unpredictability at the very top level anymore.
And I think you've nailed it, Graham. You know, I
just think Race has gone into a shell a little.
But he was extremely innovative and creative and and empowered
(17:15):
his players. You'll know this, and his extremely successful reign
is as Crusader's head coach. And look, I get the
stakes a higher. I absolutely get it, mate, as I
know you do. But it's yeah, it's a it's a
byproduct of the much more intense pressure that is coming on.
Good to chat to your Graham. I'm glad you're still
with us, mate, Always love hearing your voice. Conrad, Hi mate, Oh.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Yeah, hi Piney.
Speaker 9 (17:40):
Hey look just a bit of the back line. I
just think when you watch some of those old videos,
there's massive distances between the half back someone like said
going and the first five and then the step the
back and stands very deep and some of them hit
the ball at real case if you look at if
you look, for example, some of the back line moves
that Mergons would do in the ninety six side against
(18:02):
South Africa. I mean some of the wrap around all
that kind of stuff. We did have answer the midfield obviously,
which are the huge adsigners, but you know that those
kind of innovative back line moves. I think the back
line coach needs to be set well. I know, is
he moving on this guy Holland?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He well, Jason Holland's in charge of attack, and yes
he is moving on. The Other interesting part of that,
and maybe I'm putting two and two together and getting five,
is that the previous attack coach Leon McDonald also left
of his own volition. So that's why I asked John
Haggett the question about who has the final say. You know,
Scott Robertson was a loose forward as a player. That
(18:40):
doesn't mean at all that he doesn't understand attacking back
line moves. But if I'm the attack coach, if I'm
in charge of it, I don't know. I feel like
that is my brief and without knowing this for sure
does have too much say in the attack. Not sure.
But back to your original point, Conrad, I remember the
days I know what you're talking about. You know, guys
(19:02):
coming from deep bigger gaps, you know, or or smaller
gaps and a gap out to the wing or something
like that, just any way to find space. Nothing John
said that you would have heard that the shape of
the field, the size of the field hasn't changed at all.
It's still the same size.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
I mean, that's right. I mean takes for example, the
subsistion was sitting the advantage line every time. But well,
you don't realize that's so easy to defindicate thing. It
will defend that every time we tore it in the
lines in twenty seventeen. I mean you've got to try,
you know, really expansive back line ideas and anyway just
to set the food Anyway, I'm sure other people have
a have a comment as well.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Thanks, yours is always a good thought. Conrad, thanks for
calling in mate seven twenty six. We'll take a break,
come back with more of your calls after this.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Have your sale eighty sports Talk or more on your
home of sports news.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Talks at me.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Seven nine talking all Blacks. Hello Dallas, Hi Bary.
Speaker 10 (20:00):
Who was that guy you had on? I was here
a tax coach for under Rosa.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Was it he? No?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
He worked with row Penny at Canterbury. He also played
over one hundred games for Otago. John haggartt is his name? Okay,
so he worked before Raiser Yeah, well yeah he was
at the He's in the Canterbury rugby side rather than
the Crusaders.
Speaker 10 (20:23):
I get to yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I completely disagree
with him. I think he's in Laololand. Actually, here's the
way I look at it. You've got to project two
years ahead and in my opinion, Body Barrett won't be
there the next World Cup. In my opinion also, Ardie
Savilla won't be there. I think these guys have passed
(20:45):
their best. They're on the longside down. I remember when
Artie was just an excitement machine every time he took
to the field, and I think he's lost that spark.
And Barrett has been a great but he's been around
for ages and I think he's on the downwards slide
as well. So in my opinion, we have to be
ruthless next year and start looking at that next World
(21:09):
Cup and who we see as who will be playing
in it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, Dallas, I agree with that, but I agree that
nobody should be playing really with the possible odd exception,
but nobody should really be playing for the All Blacks
next year and certainly into twenty twenty seven. Who isn't
a part of the All Blacks World Cup plans? Look,
I think Artie. I think Artie has had a year
where he's he's played every Test match, he started every Test,
(21:37):
he was herculean and a couple of earlier test matches
of the year. I agree with you a little bit,
dalas he's been less influential the last couple, but I
still think he's a massive part of this team. Bode
embarrass an interesting one with Richie Wonga coming back next year,
but what they have failed to do is to blood
whoever is next, And Josh Jacob is a guy a
lot of people talk about. Ruben Love has been in
the team and has played first five for the Hurricanes,
(21:59):
but hasn't been given a crack in the black jersey.
Just has been spectacularly underutilized. So yeah, I totally take
your point on looking two years ahead, and I'd be
very surprised if anybody who isn't in contention basically for
the World Cup in twenty seven plays next year.
Speaker 10 (22:20):
It's a great mystery to me. I guess to you
as well, how Raiser has not managed the transition to
international rugby. And I know it's complicated. There are other factors.
Other teams are getting better as well, and a Raiser
obviously some of the cattle he's dealing with isn't as
good as he might hope, so it's not all on him.
(22:43):
But things like knowing what your team plan is and
then going out and executing these are things that are
on the coach and looking at it. The other night,
England had a really good game plan and they stuck
with it even when they went down twelve points. But
we just seem to be like, what's our plan?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
You know?
Speaker 10 (23:07):
How are we going to play this game? It just
seems like we relied too much on individual athleticism and
occasional furse of inspiration from McKenzie and the like without
actually a good I mean.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
We haven't.
Speaker 10 (23:21):
We haven't worked out how to break down rush defense
since nineteen seventeen when it came in with the Lions.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Twenty seventeen, hopefully not nineteen seventeen. Tell Us, I know
that's what you meant. And another great point about the
difference between super rugby and Test rugby, and we're going
to have a whole you know, I got a whole
show on that because it has clearly been found to
be very, very different. I think we all agreed, well
most of us anyway, that Scott Robertson was the right
(23:52):
choice to take on the All Blacks given everything he'd
done at super level. But what we have quickly discovered
is how different the two things are. Thanks tell us, Henry, Hi.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Mate, I just do you may somehow who they look like?
You just didn't look for it on something. Some of
them were guessed in this second. I think we're like fitnesses.
You remember the ninety five Wars. They were both guys.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, not just the ninety five guys, Henry. I think
it's been a hallmark of all black sides, hasn't it. Yes,
it is big, you know, Corey J.
Speaker 7 (24:27):
Hayward, Yes, you know, super fit, but these guys just
and you know, why would you play Boden Barrett Jason
when you could see his league was all taped up
like you know, you were, well, he's something's wrong with
his league. You know why I play on an injury?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I don't know the answer to that, Henry, And I'd
be very interested to know whether or how bad the
injury was going. And you know there's different types, right, Oh,
you know I can play through that. That's okay, it's
just a little nigger, I'll be fine, or one which Look,
I don't know whether the injury was a reason for
Bowdens in different performance yesterday, but I've rarely seen him
in as poor form in a black jersey as I
(25:02):
did yesterday.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah, you know, well you know what I mean that
I hate Ruby love gets you run a on next Sunday.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You know he gets something I do too, Henry, because
he's just been sitting there criminally underutilized. It's like Billy
propped the last year Billy Propped got a couple of
tests and that was pretty much. Yet Rubin Love, I
think you know deserves at least something this weekend. I'd
be starting him. I'm not even sure where, but I'd
be starting him. Good on you, Henry A j You'll
(25:29):
get the last word tonight. How are you, mate?
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Get a piney? How are you a long time?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Yeah mate, I like you.
Speaker 11 (25:36):
I was prepared to give Scott Robson a crack mate,
because he had the winning record with the Crusaders and that.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
But you've got to ask a question.
Speaker 11 (25:43):
Two years on from taking it over, otherill recks in
a better position than what they were under Ian Foster,
and I don't believe they are. I think we've gone
backwards and we've gone back to the back line. Nobody's
running onto the ball. Our quarback might be more solifoy.
And the other question you have to ask is two
years ago Scott Barrett was the best player in all
backs but not just said he was the best lock
(26:04):
in the wield and the captaincy is weighing and a
big one, mate, And I think it's a major mistake
at the moment in my opinion, Cody Tat has to
be the All Black captain. And I also think I
agree with the other callers. I think Ardista be Able's
are very tired at the moment, makes very tired. I
want even taking them on throughly. Be honest with you,
I don't think it's a good idea him going to
to Bend either. I think he needs a whole six
(26:25):
months top rugby mate to reach out to Betis, because
going forward we need to make it some serious questions
and we need to get somebody right Bilix stones into
all that comes into the All Black taking team, somebody outside,
somebody from rugby league or that to saw things up.
In my opinion, pointing good on.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Ja's a lot of good points in there. Mate. The
Arly one so interesting. I think you know we all
wanted him to go. It's a Grand Slam too. But
he does look like he's got very little gas in
the tank. And I don't think you'll see him play
on the weekend. I think you know he's played. In fact,
he's one of only two players and I'm going to
check this for accuracy. He and Will Jordan have started
(27:05):
every test this year. Jordan might plan the weekend. I
don't think Guard he will. I think you say to him, mate,
you can start your recovery for next year a week
early and your eyes off to Japan. Scott Barrett's having
that longest sabbatical back here and hopefully that reinvigorates him. AJ,
you speaking my language around the captaincy as well. As
(27:28):
I've said a number of times, it just nothing against
Scott Barrett, but it doesn't look like he enjoys it.
He looks encumbered by the captaincy, not liberated by it anyway.
Good to chat to heah AJ, thanks for all your
calls and correspondent, some great stuff on the All Blacks obviously,
still quite a bit of conversation to be had. Darcy
might even pick it up tomorrow night. Meantime, the Hurricanes
(27:49):
have announced the resignation of their CEO, Avonlea. He's stepping
down after ten years in the role, which included the
club's only Super Rugby title in twenty sixteen. He's navigated
the club through a range of different landscapes, including the
terrifically difficult COVID times, but he will leave at the
end of this month. Avonlea is with us. How did
you come to this decision and congrats on a great tenure.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Thanks Ponie, appreciate it well. I have been here ten years,
so you know, that's quite a long spint. I think
COVID probably extended that, to be honest, because you know,
it was such a tough time and you know, I
was pretty so I am very passionate about, you know,
this place. So yeah, it's sort of got new owners,
(28:35):
a new board, and it just felt like the right time,
to be honest, I've been thinking about it for a
little while, but it just got to a point where
I feel like it's I feel like it's time and
I think change can be really good and I think
that change would be good for me, and I think
would be good for the hurricane.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
What are you proudest of?
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Good question. I think I'm proud of that the people
really like I know that sounds a bit cliched, but
you know, the players have been amazing. You know, I've
got friends now from from that group. I think the
start as well have been have been incredible. I think
to come through COVID with no redundancies was it was
(29:20):
really important. I'm really proud of what myself and the
board to get us through that. You know, getting getting
a woman's team off the ground was a pretty significant
moment for the club. But I think ultimately it's about
it's about people.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
How much of your job satisfaction was linked to the
way the Hurricanes were playing.
Speaker 6 (29:46):
Quite a lot. Yeah, you certainly feel like you're way
better at your job when you're wanting but no, it was. Look,
it's hard because, unlike a lot of people that are listening,
at the end of each working week, you know, you
have a weekend off and you go into the next week.
But you know, for us, you know, Friday or saturd
(30:06):
evening are slightly different and it really can affect the
way the way you feel. But you know, someone in
my role needs to be even keeled win or lose.
The players don't want to see management, coaches, THEO stressed
or being picky about what's not working. You've just got
(30:29):
to have confidence and the people that you do have
and the coaches and the players. Yeah, that was That's
only my attitude. I've tried to be, you know, try
to be a good person and a sounding board for
a lot of the players, but obviously the staff as well. Yeah,
(30:49):
I'm just proud made I've loved it. It's been a privilege,
but you know, I am excited about what might come next.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Just before we get to that, how do you evaluate
the start of the organization that you've left for a
decade but are now stepping away from, and what are
the big challenges facing them and in the short to
medium term.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's been reasonly well publicized
about the financial challenges we've had in recent years. My
first six years, we've made profits every year and I thought, hey,
this is easy, this gig. But you know, last years
post COVID has been has been really challenging and it's
been a tough time for sport. But it's not exclusively sport.
(31:31):
You know, you look at all the businesses that have
unfortunately had to stop in Wellington. People just don't have
the same disposable income as they had, So that's the
that's the biggest challenge I think rugby. You know, there's
a few things for rugby to work out in terms
of structure and in probably the game you know, as
(31:52):
a rule, but yeah, I think I think that's the
biggest challenge at the moment is where where does rugby
fit and how does rugby, you know, become more relevant
so that people get off their couch and go to
the ground. Because the viewership of rugby is very strong.
I mean two years ago our viewership Hurricanes went up
(32:13):
thirty percent. Last year it was fifteen I think, so
we don't have a problem about engagement social media et cetera,
et cetera through the roof. But you know, our crowds
have dropped a couple of thousand over the last three
or four years, and that's quite significant to a small organization.
So I think those are the big challenges going forward.
(32:34):
But I'm genuinely confident that the Hurricanes are going to
be strong. I've seen some improvement already in the last
kind of six months with some of the structure we're
putting in, getting some really good people.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
So you know, twenty the men's.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
Squad is exceptional for next year, so lots to be
positive about. But you know that's going to be to
someone else to drive now.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And what is next for you then?
Speaker 6 (32:59):
Honestly, I don't had a plan. I'm going to take
descend of January off and then think about what's next.
I'm very open to going overseas, but you know, naturally
when you put yourself out there like today, there's been
a couple of nice little phone calls that I think
that could be nice, you know, But it's very open,
(33:20):
no fixed agenda, have some nice family time in the summer,
and then start looking kind of mid January.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Will you remain a Hurricanes fan always?
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Yeah, there's no, There's absolutely no doubt about that. I couldn't.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't put another color on top
of my body. But nah, I've got so many friends,
and you know, like I said before, when I first started,
I didn't know any Hurricanes, but now I know lots,
and you know, I consider some of them friends. So
it's been it's been amazing for me and very special.
(33:55):
And the staff here, you know, they're great, and it's
going to be strange for me, but I think it's
a good thing for me and a good thing with Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well again, congratulations on your tenure and this decision. I
want to thank you personally for always being accessible in
a media sense to me and everybody else at the
station or the Best Haven with what lies ahead, and
thanks for taking the time for a chat tonight. Thanks
Thanks Avonlea resigning today or his announcement as a resigning
CEO of the Hurricanes, so they'll be on the lookout
(34:27):
for a new person to helm the organization from the
end of this month when Avonlea departs sixteen away from eight.
Let's take a break. When we come back, as we
always do on Monday night, it's going to rate the
weekend Piney's Power Rankings. After this pays our rankings time
(34:49):
to rate the weekend as we always do on Monday
nights with Piney's Power Rankings, the best, the worst, and
the end between. It's from the sporting weekend. The arts
lee shambolic final round of the T one hundred triathlon
events in Dubai Key we Haden. Wilde was in the
lee when he missed the bike to run transition and
(35:10):
was one of three competitors who went an extra lap.
He's missed the Turkey. He has miss transition. Jesus Christ Hayden,
what are you doing? Nope, you're not. You're on buddy,
Oh my goodness. When it goes that quick has missed
the transition zone and confusion continued to rain. Hayden. Wild
was fifth on the run, but a timing issue meant
(35:31):
The result was decided on who was where at the
end of the penultimate running lamp, dropping the Olympic silver
medalists down to eight. He was not best pleased the
All Blacks. No Grand Slam for Razors Men in twenty
twenty five Flavy nineteen. The All Blacks finished their year
(35:58):
against Wales on Sunday morning. The break is out muscled
eighty eight seventy five by the Wildcats and there are
the National Basketball League clash over in perse Now it
gets real.
Speaker 12 (36:11):
Kent Shall out the four Clara who us it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Down eighty eight seventy five. The Wildcats will get their
seventh win of the season and it's fitting.
Speaker 12 (36:21):
That Christian Doobittle pulls down the rebound because he was
the man here in this final term for the Wildcats.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The lost leaves to break his second bottom on the ladder.
They next face the bottom placed Ken's Taipe Hans on
the weekend seven Keepe Supercars driver Matt Payne a collision
taking him out of championship contention during the second race
of the penultimate event in Melbourne. There's no space between
them on the Runderworlds two two.
Speaker 12 (36:47):
They are playing for keeps here and it's a fight
up warners who wants to make a fight out of
this one and has another dive down the inside and
four and sends Matty Payne.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
White towards the fence. And this is going to tip
the whole upside down. Yeah, Matt Payne clashing with fellow
finals hopeful cam Waters with thirty one laps to go
at the down five hundred, damaging both of them and
dashing any hopes of reaching the Grand Final in Adelaide
later in the month. Six, the All Whites going close,
oh so close against world number thirteen Columbia.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Sing again in space inside the penalty area, laser the
cross and.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It is a goal for the All Whites, and it's
Ben Old who scored and leveled it up that made
it one all with ten to go, but Columbia found
a late goal to win it too. One five into
the top half. The Silver Ferns winning a close first
test against England sixty one fifty eight, there again giving
(37:47):
a very fast shot on a single thoot that high
fives come from both sides.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
A big match. Fained Hair at the top of the
New Zealand number two in the world, and that it
is high brilliant in the final fifth fair minute.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
But unfortunately losing the second Test by exactly the same
mark judge and the decider is on Thursday four. Okay
we got for Dan hilly Is at four, finishing in
a share of sixteenth at eleven under par in the
European Tour's season finale in Dubai over to six.
Speaker 13 (38:18):
Darn Hellier and an example of the good putting of
helliad app Yes, keep an iron his struct during the
day and watch how firm and solid the whole left
arm and particularly the left rest is through the ball.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Dan Hillier earns one hundred and eighty thousand dollars for
his efforts, unfortunately just missing out on one of the
USPGA Tour qualifying spots on Offer three. Darryl Mitchell's at three,
the main man for the black Caps yet again. A
century in the first ODI in christ Church falls.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Away and he gets it, finds the gap, does Darryl Mitchell,
and it's the raise the bat moment, simply brilliant for
Mitchell on his way to his seventh One Day International hundreds.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Unfortunately, Daryl Mitchell needed scans on an injured groin afterwards.
He's yet to travel with the team for the We
Can match against the West Indies in Napier two. The
Welsh rugby team actually winning a game of rugby. It
all rests with Jared Evans.
Speaker 10 (39:22):
Here for a day.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
The rule says it all and from the.
Speaker 12 (39:30):
Jaws of defeats wells claimer priceless victory, wild celebrations as
replacement fly half Jared Evans stepped up to kick the
match winning penalty.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Against Japan one. But speaking of bedlam, what about this?
In Buddhapest, Ireland have beaten Hungary three to two with
virtue with the last kick of the game to secure
a spot in Europe's qualification playoffs for next year's fee
for World Card of the Dice.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
It's all on this for prevor scalers as a bust scaper,
the head jack yard, the.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Try not too much impartiality in the commentary box love it.
How do you feel about the rankings tonight? Cheek Pony
wasn't a good weekend for New Zealand sport. It was
making me think it was going to be something like
do you remember that weekend last year where we had
ten really good ones and where we're just going to
find ten really bad ones this time round. Yes, so
(40:27):
oh at least at least Hilaire and Darryl Mitchell was
in there, so I were, Yeah, I was. I know,
you're right. I tend to try and make it ki
we heavy most of the time, but yeah, we were
a bit slim pickings this weekend. One of your most
left field number ones. I think there's ever been Piney
Y have you seen that? Have you seen that? I
(40:47):
have not seen it? News to me that this has occurred.
Actually no, honestly, Google get it in the Google. Have
a look for Ireland Hungary in World Cup qualifying and
the scenes at the end when that final goal goes,
and you will not regret it. Six and a half
to hate News talks'd be four final. A couple of texts,
(41:07):
space and expensive. Rugby is the game of old modern
era slows, suffocating grind. Then kick rugby doesn't suit us,
and we're not talking enough about how England and South
Africa are really good at it. We'll keep losing if
we keep trying to play our rugby, which is a shame.
The text concludes, because the modern game's a bit boring
and from Mars Piney, I've had an absolute shite of
(41:28):
a day because of the all blacks. Everyone on sites
was talking about how we just haven't got any better.
If we lose to Wales, Razors should be sacked, Muss.
Don't worry, muzz, We're not gonna lose to Wales. Don't panic.
That ain't gonna happen. Surely. Thanks for listening tonight, Thanks
for taking part in the show Scrape Pleasure bringing it
(41:50):
to you. Huge thanks to Andy McDonald for producing not
just today but across the weekend. Busy old day yesterday
on the phones, I can tell you have an excellent
couple of days off. Mate. Marcus Lush is on your
radio after eight o'clock to take you through the rest
of Monday. We're back on Weekend Sport on Saturday, looking
forward to a much brighter weekend of results and happenings
(42:14):
and goings on. Have a great week see us Saturday.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk s ed Boon.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good evening, Bockerman. This is Monday night sports Talk on
news Talks edb November seventeen, Happy thirty ninth birthday to
rugby union and rugby league star Carmichael Hunt and one
of our greatest Test batsman and the description certainly fits
Bert Sutcliffe born on this date in nineteen twenty three.
(00:44):
I'm Jason pine Shaw, Producers Andy McDonald. We're going to
talk sport with you until eight. One story of course,
dominating the sports news landscape over the weekend. Your Black
fla flam has been Flaming.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Day Day nineteen.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
They all Lacks losing to England for the first time
in a Test match in five years, at Twickenham for
the first time in thirteen years, and for just the
second time in twenty three years in the UK. The
reaction has been wide ranging and across the various aspects
of the game and from a wider sense the All
Blacks and the team's coaches. What we've landed on specifically
(01:29):
tonight is the side's attack. Former elite player and top
level coach John Hackett is standing by to chat with
us the attack of the side. Is it something that
needs specific attention or is it just one of a
number of things that should require examination over the next
few months as we get ready for twenty twenty six.
(01:50):
I know there's another test to go and maybe we
can talk about that as well. But having had thirty
six hours to mullet over keen to get your front
of mind views as well. We tried to get everybody
on the radio yesterday. We had absolutely no hope of
doing that during weekend sports Soap. A bit of residual
mop up talk backed night on the show Lines Open
across the hour on the Rugby also tonight, the Hurricanes
(02:11):
are on the lookout for a new CEO. Longtime boss
Avon Lee has resigned. He'll leave the organization at the
end of this month. He's going to join us for
a chat about that decision and how he thinks the
Hurricanes are placed to move on without him. At the
Helm and on Monday nights, we rate the weekend Piney's
Power rankings the best, the worst and the in between
from the sporting weekend before we end the show at eight,
(02:34):
Please jump aboard if you would like to the number
never changes eight hundred and eighty ten eighty to free
call nine two ninety two for your text messages. Normal
charges apply emails and to Jason at Newstalk SAB dot
co dot Nz just gone nine past seven.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Forget the refs call you make a call on eight
eighty eighty Sports Talk on your home of Sport News
Talk SAB talks b.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
All out the back vote and Barrett Quins to pipe.
They've got numbers, They've got Pony Taylor on the left wing,
tailor ahead. It's the All Black seconds. Yeah. At that point,
once the kick win over twelve zero, things were looking good,
but not too much from an attacking sense. Beyond that,
plenty of reaction to the All Blacks thirty three nineteen
(03:19):
defeat to England at Twickenam yesterday morning. As I say,
but I did want to zero win on the side's
attack and how much work needs to be done in
that particular area. So to that end, let's bring in
former Otago centurion at first five and second five and
former assistant coach with Canterbury, John Hagitt, who these days
provides expert analysis in our rugby commentaries in christ Church. John,
(03:43):
thanks for taking the time tonight. Let's start in general terms.
What is your assessment of the All Blacks attack right now?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Jee Punty. Yeah, it's a bit of a chonging one,
isn't it. Certainly you go up north and you play
some pretty good teams. But you know, throughout the year,
if you've given it a grade out of teen, it
would be around about the six to certainly attacks being
average at best.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It needs to improve, and we've got a wee way
to go in terms of those improvements. What specifically needs
to improve.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Well, I think you know, there's nothing wrong to set
piece like the game. Yes, it's changed, but it hasn't
changed that much. The principles of the game are still
very much the same. Yeah, you win a good set
piece ball, you go forward, you try and identify and
correct space shift it quickly and go again. And I
think for us, it's the ability for us to identify
(04:39):
that space shift it quickly, recycle that ball and give
people opportunities, you know, whether they can either have a
one on one or at the least and attack a
week's shoulder. So I think a lot of it's it
needs a lot of it's really scripted, you know, I
think we need to look at how we strike to
start with, and certain zones of the field we've tend
(05:00):
to be gone into this because we were in this
part of the field we like to okay, kick the
ball or put the ball in the end. Now that's
not one of our strengths, then why are we trying
to do it? So we need to look at where
our strengths lie and put the ball into into those players'
hands as quickly as possible can.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Attacking formations strategies sometimes be too structured.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Well absolutely, I mean we talk about you know, playing
eyes up rugby. We play we have to we have
to learn to play with a lot of chaos and
at the moment because of our structure off in our pods,
where we're missing the opportunities that are actually presented in
front of us. Whether it's sort of krick kicking behind
it's a snap back on the blind side, well it's
(05:44):
a peck can go through the middle. We actually have
to play what's in front of us. And and you know,
to be fair on the all blacks, they get to
finished products. So we've got to look at our coaching
system and how we're playing, and you know, we're finding
now that we're playing nations that have come through the
same sort of systems the pathways is what we had,
but physically as strong and as effective as us, and
in fact sometimes a better coach than us. So we
(06:05):
have to, you know, we have to be better in
those spaces.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So is there a balance to be struck between having
structure because you do need it, you can't just you know,
be completely unstructured, but also striking that balance between as
you call it, eyes up rugby, playing what you see
and allowing players who have the ability to create something
out of nothing in an unpredictable fashion to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think in Zellan we've got an absolute of artage,
you know, our DNA as such as that we like
to play with a ball in hand, and we'll like
to flood, play with tempo.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
No, then we need to go away from that.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I think we need to probably get back to that
and look at some of the you know, our players,
you know the strategies of this world. You find nucleus,
you know, they get the ball in their hands and
they can do anything for us. So, yes, we have
to have a bit of structure. There's no doubt about that.
But we also have to be able to break, you know,
when it breaks down, just play rugby, and and I
(06:58):
think we're we're not as effective as that as we
should be. I think, you know, Raiser, for example, when
I watched the Crusaders things I get tactics from there,
from inside the twenty two had special line outs. We're
not probably seeing quite enough of that at the internet
for Remol. I'm not sure whether it's because they are
froze and a little bit because of it's such it
seemed to be so much you know, at stake, or
(07:21):
whether it's just the you know, they're not prepared to
try that.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
How challenging are modern day defenses to penetrate because they've
improved too, haven't they?
Speaker 6 (07:29):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Absolutely? And I think we could get the fact that,
you know, the dimensions of the rugu feel have not changed.
But if we look at the physical makeup of the
individual from you know, right back in the Invincibles where
you know you're you're forward if you were twelve stone
at best, that he's the biggest man. Well, now you've
got your halfbacks that are bigger them than you know,
seven eighty kgs. So their ability to cover ground defensively
(07:52):
has increased so much, so of course there's a whole
lot less space to attack because the defenses are so good,
and also with the analysis that defensive coaches put into
the game. So absolutely, admittedly it is very much, very
difficult to attack can find space, but sides are doing that.
Sides are able to analyze opposition and then find a
(08:13):
way through, and I think we're still we're still a
way way away from that ourselves to be able to
do that effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
In terms of the responsibility within a coaching group, how much, say,
would a head coach typically have over the attack or
would they leave it almost entirely in the hands of
their specialist attack coach.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
That's a good question, Piney. I think it really depends
very much on the makeup of your coaching group, how
they get on individuals involved. So you know, I can't
speak for the all backs and how they would operate,
but you'd like to think that if you're responsible for
a portfolio such as attack, then you're pretty much you know,
you go out there and you run it the way
you see it should happen, and of course there'll be
(08:54):
conversations going on in the background and I'm sure raised
you trusts his attack. I'm sure he asks you questions,
lots of questions. And it's also not easy to always
get it right. You can go out with your dislaid plans,
but on the day at the opposition that you're playing,
they've got a defense that's better than yours. It's counted
some of your so called A text strategy that you
(09:17):
wanted to put into place. Then you are going to
be on the back foot. So it doesn't always work,
and that's where you've got to have the experience of
the players on the field to say, hey, Plan A
is not working. What do we do now to try
and correct space? And it might be that they go
back to I don't know, a kicking in behind game,
or an ability to go to the middle or rather
than go to the edge. So it just depends.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Do you think modern day players or the majority of
modern day players can play what they see, can make
decisions on the field once they reach provincial, super and
then test level.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I think it takes time. Years ago, the only thing
that you watched on television was rugby, and now a
young people today are growing up not watching the game
at all. The watching a game it's NBA or it's league.
So the ability for them to understand and study of
the game has probably been reduced, Yes, a bit of
there in professional environment, so they're getting probably a lot
(10:11):
more attention from coaches. But yeah, it's challenging, and I
think also we've got to get their players time they're
come out. We pick a lot of players at twenty
twenty one, twenty two, Well most of those boards will
not play the this rugged until a sort of you know,
mid mid twenties to you know, late twenties, and that's
when they really can start understanding the game and starting
to rely on the experience to make the right decisions.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And what a rugby team and specifically a backline team
to typically split their prep time that they're preparing for
a big game. Will they split their prep time fifty
to fifty between attack and defense typically?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Again, another really good question. I think we've probably overloaded
how much time would us to spend on attack? But
now in the professional environment, they're very much you know,
they'll look at the components of the game, the set piece,
the kicking strategy, the attack with ball in hand, the contacts.
You know, a lot of detail, a lot of work
goes into into those areas, so certainly they would get
(11:11):
a plenty of time, more time than probably the most
to work on their attack. In conversely, you know, depends,
it depends on the on the makeup of the team
and what the needs are for that week for that
particular team based on what happened the previous.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Week off them.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Really interesting John, interesting stuff. So how do I mean
we all want the All Blacks to win every time
they play. We know that they're in a bit of
a challenging situation right now and yesterday was the latest,
the latest example of that. How do you feel about
the All Blacks optimism wise midway through the World Cup cycle?
Speaker 7 (11:44):
Yeah, it's I mean, I think I think you just
said it.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
You know, we we expect you'll get to win every game,
but the reality is they're not going to win every
game and they're going to have a few pickups along
the road. Now, they won the World Cup on a
couple of years time, that's all we've forgotten. So you know,
we've heard some commentary around have they gone backwards since
Pozzi's time? Well, I don't think they've gone backwards. I
think what he has, what rais has done really well.
Is is he's not a wide group of players that
(12:11):
can play test that shrugby so you know, yes to yeah,
you used to used to play your match day twenty
three and that was that all we're not. We've got
game time, so I think we've got a lot more
players now that a lot of countries that have had
some test match experience. So I'm confident, I'm optimistic that
what we're doing is right. I think, yes, we've got
to obviously tweak a few things and be a bit
(12:32):
better in some of our things, like our discipline. You know,
we have lost a lot of the critical moments this year,
and critical moments in the game, because that's the close
are absolutely crucial. You know, you're just you're up twelve
and up to seventeen in the last three test makes
this You've got to know the next job. You've got
to be able to put sides away. And we're not
learning from that. Then we will struggle at the test
(12:53):
back at World Cup in a couple of years time,
but I'm confident that will be two years more experienced
in that time and we'll come out with a pretty
good side that will be ready to win that World
cup again.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Really interesting chat rugby with you, John, Thanks so much
for taking the time tonight. Ye funny, Thanks John, John Haggitt.
Line's open to talk some rugby tonight. Oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. You're welcome to pick up on
anything you heard there from John Haggitt, who is, as
you can tell, one of the more astute rugby analysts
going around. Comes from a playing point of view, a
(13:25):
coaching point of view. If the attack is something you'd
like to pass comments on, that would be welcome. But
it's by no means the only question that's been raised
after yesterday. Of course, it's not the only area that
needs addressing. If there's something in particular that's been gnawing
away at you today, here's your chance to give voice
to it. You may have tried to get through yesterday
without any success. It does tend to get pretty busy
(13:46):
on the phones on the weekends, particularly after an All
Blacks test match. There are some clearer air tonight, or
the phones are starting to ring, and we often get
more reasoned, measured conversation once we've given the game a
bit of time. Debrief not always, not always, and you
may still be fueled by emotion as much as logic.
(14:06):
But that's okay, these are the All Blacks. Oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty Graham, I thought you'd I
thought you'd abandoned me and the show.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Oh, I know, I know, I think too busy out
celebrating Kennedy winning the in for you see yeh.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Jee that's a that's a long celebration. But I think
it's so.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
I haven't been celebrated. I haven't. Yeah, the All Black Yeah,
I haven't diverted the show, Jason. It's just busy Sundays
and you've you've got you've seen to be the most
popular man in between twelve and two in the New
Zealand's at that time. So yeah, no, great interview with
John Haggart. He's a great rugby thinker and yeah agreed,
(14:49):
Yeah absolutely, I've seen him in action down here when
he came up from a targo. But yeah, I just
think a point like to make about attacks, and I mean,
I mean, I'll be I'm pretty disappointed as Razor. You know,
I'll get that. I'll probably told other hostless. But you know,
the selections of found too conservative last year and then
(15:11):
this year it seems a bit the fuddle. But you know,
I remember the story Wayne Smith told after what Alex
Wyley died earlier this year, and it's in his box
and he was in between canterbur and Auckham the plane
in eighty three. It was the year we beat them,
two years before we lost to them, and they had
a game plan and while he sat, poked them in
(15:31):
the chest and said run it from everywhere, and that
was about that's run on the field. And I think
the lesson with that comment, that's not the sort of
thing that happens nowadays. I think, especially at international level,
coaches are too. Like John alluded to the things he's
doing with the Crusaders. I know it's a different level international,
(15:54):
but he seems to have come and gone to a shell.
I think there's the loss's mount. You know, you get
less confidence, his tears have lost confidence in doing something innovatives.
And yeah, I mean that idea of just changing the
game plan all of a sudden, you know, the French
to it we used to be. You know, we've all
(16:14):
seen tests against the All Blacks and they've just transformed
from what's from being useless to brilliance. That type of
things not seemingly at international level has been lost in
the All Blacks system over the last few years. And
both Ian and Scott robertson.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, it's a great point, Grahame, and and listening to
John talk there about about structure, and we all agree, right,
the game can't just be you can't just you know,
throw fifteen guys out there. As much as I take
what Gris said, you know, just run it from anywhere.
You know, that's not a strategy, a consistently winning strategy,
but what it is as part of I believe anyway,
(16:54):
what's been lost that that there isn't as much innovative
off the cuff unpredictability at the very top level anymore.
And I think you've nailed it, Graham. You know, I
just think Race has gone into a shell a little.
But he was extremely innovative and creative and and empowered
(17:15):
his players. You'll know this, and his extremely successful reign
is as Crusader's head coach. And look, I get the
stakes a higher. I absolutely get it, mate, as I
know you do. But it's yeah, it's a it's a
byproduct of the much more intense pressure that is coming on.
Good to chat to your Graham. I'm glad you're still
with us, mate, Always love hearing your voice. Conrad, Hi mate, Oh.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Yeah, hi Piney.
Speaker 9 (17:40):
Hey look just a bit of the back line. I
just think when you watch some of those old videos,
there's massive distances between the half back someone like said
going and the first five and then the step the
back and stands very deep and some of them hit
the ball at real case if you look at if
you look, for example, some of the back line moves
that Mergons would do in the ninety six side against
(18:02):
South Africa. I mean some of the wrap around all
that kind of stuff. We did have answer the midfield obviously,
which are the huge adsigners, but you know that those
kind of innovative back line moves. I think the back
line coach needs to be set well. I know, is
he moving on this guy Holland?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He well, Jason Holland's in charge of attack, and yes
he is moving on. The Other interesting part of that,
and maybe I'm putting two and two together and getting five,
is that the previous attack coach Leon McDonald also left
of his own volition. So that's why I asked John
Haggett the question about who has the final say. You know,
Scott Robertson was a loose forward as a player. That
(18:40):
doesn't mean at all that he doesn't understand attacking back
line moves. But if I'm the attack coach, if I'm
in charge of it, I don't know. I feel like
that is my brief and without knowing this for sure
does have too much say in the attack. Not sure.
But back to your original point, Conrad, I remember the
days I know what you're talking about. You know, guys
(19:02):
coming from deep bigger gaps, you know, or or smaller
gaps and a gap out to the wing or something
like that, just any way to find space. Nothing John
said that you would have heard that the shape of
the field, the size of the field hasn't changed at all.
It's still the same size.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
I mean, that's right. I mean takes for example, the
subsistion was sitting the advantage line every time. But well,
you don't realize that's so easy to defindicate thing. It
will defend that every time we tore it in the
lines in twenty seventeen. I mean you've got to try,
you know, really expansive back line ideas and anyway just
to set the food Anyway, I'm sure other people have
a have a comment as well.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Thanks, yours is always a good thought. Conrad, thanks for
calling in mate seven twenty six. We'll take a break,
come back with more of your calls after this.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Have your sale eighty sports Talk or more on your
home of sports news.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Talks at me.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Seven nine talking all Blacks. Hello Dallas, Hi Bary.
Speaker 10 (20:00):
Who was that guy you had on? I was here
a tax coach for under Rosa.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Was it he? No?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
He worked with row Penny at Canterbury. He also played
over one hundred games for Otago. John haggartt is his name? Okay,
so he worked before Raiser Yeah, well yeah he was
at the He's in the Canterbury rugby side rather than
the Crusaders.
Speaker 10 (20:23):
I get to yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I completely disagree
with him. I think he's in Laololand. Actually, here's the
way I look at it. You've got to project two
years ahead and in my opinion, Body Barrett won't be
there the next World Cup. In my opinion also, Ardie
Savilla won't be there. I think these guys have passed
(20:45):
their best. They're on the longside down. I remember when
Artie was just an excitement machine every time he took
to the field, and I think he's lost that spark.
And Barrett has been a great but he's been around
for ages and I think he's on the downwards slide
as well. So in my opinion, we have to be
ruthless next year and start looking at that next World
(21:09):
Cup and who we see as who will be playing
in it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, Dallas, I agree with that, but I agree that
nobody should be playing really with the possible odd exception,
but nobody should really be playing for the All Blacks
next year and certainly into twenty twenty seven. Who isn't
a part of the All Blacks World Cup plans? Look,
I think Artie. I think Artie has had a year
where he's he's played every Test match, he started every Test,
(21:37):
he was herculean and a couple of earlier test matches
of the year. I agree with you a little bit,
dalas he's been less influential the last couple, but I
still think he's a massive part of this team. Bode
embarrass an interesting one with Richie Wonga coming back next year,
but what they have failed to do is to blood
whoever is next, And Josh Jacob is a guy a
lot of people talk about. Ruben Love has been in
the team and has played first five for the Hurricanes,
(21:59):
but hasn't been given a crack in the black jersey.
Just has been spectacularly underutilized. So yeah, I totally take
your point on looking two years ahead, and I'd be
very surprised if anybody who isn't in contention basically for
the World Cup in twenty seven plays next year.
Speaker 10 (22:20):
It's a great mystery to me. I guess to you
as well, how Raiser has not managed the transition to
international rugby. And I know it's complicated. There are other factors.
Other teams are getting better as well, and a Raiser
obviously some of the cattle he's dealing with isn't as
good as he might hope, so it's not all on him.
(22:43):
But things like knowing what your team plan is and
then going out and executing these are things that are
on the coach and looking at it. The other night,
England had a really good game plan and they stuck
with it even when they went down twelve points. But
we just seem to be like, what's our plan?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
You know?
Speaker 10 (23:07):
How are we going to play this game? It just
seems like we relied too much on individual athleticism and
occasional furse of inspiration from McKenzie and the like without
actually a good I mean.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
We haven't.
Speaker 10 (23:21):
We haven't worked out how to break down rush defense
since nineteen seventeen when it came in with the Lions.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Twenty seventeen, hopefully not nineteen seventeen. Tell Us, I know
that's what you meant. And another great point about the
difference between super rugby and Test rugby, and we're going
to have a whole you know, I got a whole
show on that because it has clearly been found to
be very, very different. I think we all agreed, well
most of us anyway, that Scott Robertson was the right
(23:52):
choice to take on the All Blacks given everything he'd
done at super level. But what we have quickly discovered
is how different the two things are. Thanks tell us, Henry, Hi.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Mate, I just do you may somehow who they look like?
You just didn't look for it on something. Some of
them were guessed in this second. I think we're like fitnesses.
You remember the ninety five Wars. They were both guys.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, not just the ninety five guys, Henry. I think
it's been a hallmark of all black sides, hasn't it. Yes,
it is big, you know, Corey J.
Speaker 7 (24:27):
Hayward, Yes, you know, super fit, but these guys just
and you know, why would you play Boden Barrett Jason
when you could see his league was all taped up
like you know, you were, well, he's something's wrong with
his league. You know why I play on an injury?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I don't know the answer to that, Henry, And I'd
be very interested to know whether or how bad the
injury was going. And you know there's different types, right, Oh,
you know I can play through that. That's okay, it's
just a little nigger, I'll be fine, or one which Look,
I don't know whether the injury was a reason for
Bowdens in different performance yesterday, but I've rarely seen him
in as poor form in a black jersey as I
(25:02):
did yesterday.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah, you know, well you know what I mean that
I hate Ruby love gets you run a on next Sunday.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You know he gets something I do too, Henry, because
he's just been sitting there criminally underutilized. It's like Billy
propped the last year Billy Propped got a couple of
tests and that was pretty much. Yet Rubin Love, I
think you know deserves at least something this weekend. I'd
be starting him. I'm not even sure where, but I'd
be starting him. Good on you, Henry A j You'll
(25:29):
get the last word tonight. How are you, mate?
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Get a piney? How are you a long time?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Yeah mate, I like you.
Speaker 11 (25:36):
I was prepared to give Scott Robson a crack mate,
because he had the winning record with the Crusaders and that.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
But you've got to ask a question.
Speaker 11 (25:43):
Two years on from taking it over, otherill recks in
a better position than what they were under Ian Foster,
and I don't believe they are. I think we've gone
backwards and we've gone back to the back line. Nobody's
running onto the ball. Our quarback might be more solifoy.
And the other question you have to ask is two
years ago Scott Barrett was the best player in all
backs but not just said he was the best lock
(26:04):
in the wield and the captaincy is weighing and a
big one, mate, And I think it's a major mistake
at the moment in my opinion, Cody Tat has to
be the All Black captain. And I also think I
agree with the other callers. I think Ardista be Able's
are very tired at the moment, makes very tired. I
want even taking them on throughly. Be honest with you,
I don't think it's a good idea him going to
to Bend either. I think he needs a whole six
(26:25):
months top rugby mate to reach out to Betis, because
going forward we need to make it some serious questions
and we need to get somebody right Bilix stones into
all that comes into the All Black taking team, somebody outside,
somebody from rugby league or that to saw things up.
In my opinion, pointing good on.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Ja's a lot of good points in there. Mate. The
Arly one so interesting. I think you know we all
wanted him to go. It's a Grand Slam too. But
he does look like he's got very little gas in
the tank. And I don't think you'll see him play
on the weekend. I think you know he's played. In fact,
he's one of only two players and I'm going to
check this for accuracy. He and Will Jordan have started
(27:05):
every test this year. Jordan might plan the weekend. I
don't think Guard he will. I think you say to him, mate,
you can start your recovery for next year a week
early and your eyes off to Japan. Scott Barrett's having
that longest sabbatical back here and hopefully that reinvigorates him. AJ,
you speaking my language around the captaincy as well. As
(27:28):
I've said a number of times, it just nothing against
Scott Barrett, but it doesn't look like he enjoys it.
He looks encumbered by the captaincy, not liberated by it anyway.
Good to chat to heah AJ, thanks for all your
calls and correspondent, some great stuff on the All Blacks obviously,
still quite a bit of conversation to be had. Darcy
might even pick it up tomorrow night. Meantime, the Hurricanes
(27:49):
have announced the resignation of their CEO, Avonlea. He's stepping
down after ten years in the role, which included the
club's only Super Rugby title in twenty sixteen. He's navigated
the club through a range of different landscapes, including the
terrifically difficult COVID times, but he will leave at the
end of this month. Avonlea is with us. How did
you come to this decision and congrats on a great tenure.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Thanks Ponie, appreciate it well. I have been here ten years,
so you know, that's quite a long spint. I think
COVID probably extended that, to be honest, because you know,
it was such a tough time and you know, I
was pretty so I am very passionate about, you know,
this place. So yeah, it's sort of got new owners,
(28:35):
a new board, and it just felt like the right time,
to be honest, I've been thinking about it for a
little while, but it just got to a point where
I feel like it's I feel like it's time and
I think change can be really good and I think
that change would be good for me, and I think
would be good for the hurricane.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
What are you proudest of?
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Good question. I think I'm proud of that the people
really like I know that sounds a bit cliched, but
you know, the players have been amazing. You know, I've
got friends now from from that group. I think the
start as well have been have been incredible. I think
to come through COVID with no redundancies was it was
(29:20):
really important. I'm really proud of what myself and the
board to get us through that. You know, getting getting
a woman's team off the ground was a pretty significant
moment for the club. But I think ultimately it's about
it's about people.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
How much of your job satisfaction was linked to the
way the Hurricanes were playing.
Speaker 6 (29:46):
Quite a lot. Yeah, you certainly feel like you're way
better at your job when you're wanting but no, it was. Look,
it's hard because, unlike a lot of people that are listening,
at the end of each working week, you know, you
have a weekend off and you go into the next week.
But you know, for us, you know, Friday or saturd
(30:06):
evening are slightly different and it really can affect the
way the way you feel. But you know, someone in
my role needs to be even keeled win or lose.
The players don't want to see management, coaches, THEO stressed
or being picky about what's not working. You've just got
(30:29):
to have confidence and the people that you do have
and the coaches and the players. Yeah, that was That's
only my attitude. I've tried to be, you know, try
to be a good person and a sounding board for
a lot of the players, but obviously the staff as well. Yeah,
(30:49):
I'm just proud made I've loved it. It's been a privilege,
but you know, I am excited about what might come next.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Just before we get to that, how do you evaluate
the start of the organization that you've left for a
decade but are now stepping away from, and what are
the big challenges facing them and in the short to
medium term.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's been reasonly well publicized
about the financial challenges we've had in recent years. My
first six years, we've made profits every year and I thought, hey,
this is easy, this gig. But you know, last years
post COVID has been has been really challenging and it's
been a tough time for sport. But it's not exclusively sport.
(31:31):
You know, you look at all the businesses that have
unfortunately had to stop in Wellington. People just don't have
the same disposable income as they had, So that's the
that's the biggest challenge I think rugby. You know, there's
a few things for rugby to work out in terms
of structure and in probably the game you know, as
(31:52):
a rule, but yeah, I think I think that's the
biggest challenge at the moment is where where does rugby
fit and how does rugby, you know, become more relevant
so that people get off their couch and go to
the ground. Because the viewership of rugby is very strong.
I mean two years ago our viewership Hurricanes went up
(32:13):
thirty percent. Last year it was fifteen I think, so
we don't have a problem about engagement social media et cetera,
et cetera through the roof. But you know, our crowds
have dropped a couple of thousand over the last three
or four years, and that's quite significant to a small organization.
So I think those are the big challenges going forward.
(32:34):
But I'm genuinely confident that the Hurricanes are going to
be strong. I've seen some improvement already in the last
kind of six months with some of the structure we're
putting in, getting some really good people.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
So you know, twenty the men's.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
Squad is exceptional for next year, so lots to be
positive about. But you know that's going to be to
someone else to drive now.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And what is next for you then?
Speaker 6 (32:59):
Honestly, I don't had a plan. I'm going to take
descend of January off and then think about what's next.
I'm very open to going overseas, but you know, naturally
when you put yourself out there like today, there's been
a couple of nice little phone calls that I think
that could be nice, you know, But it's very open,
(33:20):
no fixed agenda, have some nice family time in the summer,
and then start looking kind of mid January.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Will you remain a Hurricanes fan always?
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Yeah, there's no, There's absolutely no doubt about that. I couldn't.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't put another color on top
of my body. But nah, I've got so many friends,
and you know, like I said before, when I first started,
I didn't know any Hurricanes, but now I know lots,
and you know, I consider some of them friends. So
it's been it's been amazing for me and very special.
(33:55):
And the staff here, you know, they're great, and it's
going to be strange for me, but I think it's
a good thing for me and a good thing with Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well again, congratulations on your tenure and this decision. I
want to thank you personally for always being accessible in
a media sense to me and everybody else at the
station or the Best Haven with what lies ahead, and
thanks for taking the time for a chat tonight. Thanks
Thanks Avonlea resigning today or his announcement as a resigning
CEO of the Hurricanes, so they'll be on the lookout
(34:27):
for a new person to helm the organization from the
end of this month when Avonlea departs sixteen away from eight.
Let's take a break. When we come back, as we
always do on Monday night, it's going to rate the
weekend Piney's Power Rankings. After this pays our rankings time
(34:49):
to rate the weekend as we always do on Monday
nights with Piney's Power Rankings, the best, the worst, and
the end between. It's from the sporting weekend. The arts
lee shambolic final round of the T one hundred triathlon
events in Dubai Key we Haden. Wilde was in the
lee when he missed the bike to run transition and
(35:10):
was one of three competitors who went an extra lap.
He's missed the Turkey. He has miss transition. Jesus Christ Hayden,
what are you doing? Nope, you're not. You're on buddy,
Oh my goodness. When it goes that quick has missed
the transition zone and confusion continued to rain. Hayden. Wild
was fifth on the run, but a timing issue meant
(35:31):
The result was decided on who was where at the
end of the penultimate running lamp, dropping the Olympic silver
medalists down to eight. He was not best pleased the
All Blacks. No Grand Slam for Razors Men in twenty
twenty five Flavy nineteen. The All Blacks finished their year
(35:58):
against Wales on Sunday morning. The break is out muscled
eighty eight seventy five by the Wildcats and there are
the National Basketball League clash over in perse Now it
gets real.
Speaker 12 (36:11):
Kent Shall out the four Clara who us it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Down eighty eight seventy five. The Wildcats will get their
seventh win of the season and it's fitting.
Speaker 12 (36:21):
That Christian Doobittle pulls down the rebound because he was
the man here in this final term for the Wildcats.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The lost leaves to break his second bottom on the ladder.
They next face the bottom placed Ken's Taipe Hans on
the weekend seven Keepe Supercars driver Matt Payne a collision
taking him out of championship contention during the second race
of the penultimate event in Melbourne. There's no space between
them on the Runderworlds two two.
Speaker 12 (36:47):
They are playing for keeps here and it's a fight
up warners who wants to make a fight out of
this one and has another dive down the inside and
four and sends Matty Payne.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
White towards the fence. And this is going to tip
the whole upside down. Yeah, Matt Payne clashing with fellow
finals hopeful cam Waters with thirty one laps to go
at the down five hundred, damaging both of them and
dashing any hopes of reaching the Grand Final in Adelaide
later in the month. Six, the All Whites going close,
oh so close against world number thirteen Columbia.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Sing again in space inside the penalty area, laser the
cross and.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It is a goal for the All Whites, and it's
Ben Old who scored and leveled it up that made
it one all with ten to go, but Columbia found
a late goal to win it too. One five into
the top half. The Silver Ferns winning a close first
test against England sixty one fifty eight, there again giving
(37:47):
a very fast shot on a single thoot that high
fives come from both sides.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
A big match. Fained Hair at the top of the
New Zealand number two in the world, and that it
is high brilliant in the final fifth fair minute.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
But unfortunately losing the second Test by exactly the same
mark judge and the decider is on Thursday four. Okay
we got for Dan hilly Is at four, finishing in
a share of sixteenth at eleven under par in the
European Tour's season finale in Dubai over to six.
Speaker 13 (38:18):
Darn Hellier and an example of the good putting of
helliad app Yes, keep an iron his struct during the
day and watch how firm and solid the whole left
arm and particularly the left rest is through the ball.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Dan Hillier earns one hundred and eighty thousand dollars for
his efforts, unfortunately just missing out on one of the
USPGA Tour qualifying spots on Offer three. Darryl Mitchell's at three,
the main man for the black Caps yet again. A
century in the first ODI in christ Church falls.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Away and he gets it, finds the gap, does Darryl Mitchell,
and it's the raise the bat moment, simply brilliant for
Mitchell on his way to his seventh One Day International hundreds.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Unfortunately, Daryl Mitchell needed scans on an injured groin afterwards.
He's yet to travel with the team for the We
Can match against the West Indies in Napier two. The
Welsh rugby team actually winning a game of rugby. It
all rests with Jared Evans.
Speaker 10 (39:22):
Here for a day.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
The rule says it all and from the.
Speaker 12 (39:30):
Jaws of defeats wells claimer priceless victory, wild celebrations as
replacement fly half Jared Evans stepped up to kick the
match winning penalty.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Against Japan one. But speaking of bedlam, what about this?
In Buddhapest, Ireland have beaten Hungary three to two with
virtue with the last kick of the game to secure
a spot in Europe's qualification playoffs for next year's fee
for World Card of the Dice.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
It's all on this for prevor scalers as a bust scaper,
the head jack yard, the.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Try not too much impartiality in the commentary box love it.
How do you feel about the rankings tonight? Cheek Pony
wasn't a good weekend for New Zealand sport. It was
making me think it was going to be something like
do you remember that weekend last year where we had
ten really good ones and where we're just going to
find ten really bad ones this time round. Yes, so
(40:27):
oh at least at least Hilaire and Darryl Mitchell was
in there, so I were, Yeah, I was. I know,
you're right. I tend to try and make it ki
we heavy most of the time, but yeah, we were
a bit slim pickings this weekend. One of your most
left field number ones. I think there's ever been Piney
Y have you seen that? Have you seen that? I
(40:47):
have not seen it? News to me that this has occurred.
Actually no, honestly, Google get it in the Google. Have
a look for Ireland Hungary in World Cup qualifying and
the scenes at the end when that final goal goes,
and you will not regret it. Six and a half
to hate News talks'd be four final. A couple of texts,
(41:07):
space and expensive. Rugby is the game of old modern
era slows, suffocating grind. Then kick rugby doesn't suit us,
and we're not talking enough about how England and South
Africa are really good at it. We'll keep losing if
we keep trying to play our rugby, which is a shame.
The text concludes, because the modern game's a bit boring
and from Mars Piney, I've had an absolute shite of
(41:28):
a day because of the all blacks. Everyone on sites
was talking about how we just haven't got any better.
If we lose to Wales, Razors should be sacked, Muss.
Don't worry, muzz, We're not gonna lose to Wales. Don't panic.
That ain't gonna happen. Surely. Thanks for listening tonight, Thanks
for taking part in the show Scrape Pleasure bringing it
(41:50):
to you. Huge thanks to Andy McDonald for producing not
just today but across the weekend. Busy old day yesterday
on the phones, I can tell you have an excellent
couple of days off. Mate. Marcus Lush is on your
radio after eight o'clock to take you through the rest
of Monday. We're back on Weekend Sport on Saturday, looking
forward to a much brighter weekend of results and happenings
(42:14):
and goings on. Have a great week see us Saturday.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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