John Haggart: Rugby analyst weighs in on where the All Blacks went wrong

A gloomy bus ride to Cardiff for the All Blacks with dreams of a grand slam gone.

Coach Scott Robertson admits spirits are low a day after their loss to England at Twickenham, and experts are wondering what happened.

Rugby analyst John Haggart joined Piney to discuss further.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk zedb all out the back vote and
Parris Quins to pie. They've got numbers.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
They've got Holy Taylor on the left, Wink Taylor right ahead.
It scores the All Black seconds.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah at that point once the kick went over twelve zerol.
Things will looking good, but not too much from an
attacking sense. Beyond that, plenty of reaction to the All
Blacks thirty three nineteen defeat to England at Twickenham yesterday morning.
As I say, but I did want to zero win
on the side's attack and how much work needs to
be done in that particular area. So to that end,

(00:44):
let's bring in former Otago centurion at first five and
second five and former assistant coach with Canterbury, John Haggett,
who these days provides expert analysis in our rugby commentaries
in christ Church. John, thanks for taking the time tonight.
Let's start in general terms. What is your assessment of
the All Blacks attack right now?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Gee pointing? Yeah, it's a bit of a challenging one,
isn't it. Certainly you go up north and you play
some pretty good teams, but you know, throughout the year,
if you're given it a grade out of teen, it
would be around about the six to certainly attacks being
average at best. It needs to improve and we've got
a wee way to go.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
In terms of those improvements. What specifically needs to improve.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, I think there's nothing wrong to set piece the game. Yes,
it's changed, but it hasn't changed that much. The principles
of the game are still very much the same. Yeah,
you win, good set piece for you go forward, you
try and identify and correct space shift it quickly and
go again. And I think for us, it's the ability
for us to identify that space shift it quickly, recycle

(01:57):
that for and give people opportunities, you know, whether they
can either have a one on one or at the
least going to attack a week's shoulder. So I think
a lot of it's it means a lot of it's scripted,
you know. I think we need to look at how
we strike to start with certain zones of the field.
We tend to be gone into this because we were
in this part of the field. We like to okay,

(02:19):
kick the ball or put the ball in the end.
Now that's not one of our strengths then why are
we trying to do it? So we need to look
at where our strengths lie and put the ball into
into those players' hands as quickly as possible can.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Attacking formations strategies sometimes be too structured.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well absolutely, I mean we talk about you know, playing
eyes up rugby. We play we have to we have
to learn to play with a lot of chaos and
at the moment because of our structure off in our pods,
where we're missing the opportunities that are actually presented in
front of us, where it's sort of krick kicking behind
it's a snap back on the blind side, Well it's

(02:58):
a peck can go through the middle. We actually have
to play what's in front of us, and and you know,
to be fair on the all blacks, they get the
finished product. So we've got to look at our coach
and says and how we're playing. And you know, we're
finding now that we're playing nations that have come through
the same sort of systems, the pathways is what we
have the physically as strong and as effective as us,
in fact sometimes a better coach than us. So we

(03:20):
have to you know, we have to be better in
those spaces.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So is there a balance to be struck between having
structure because you do need it, you can't just you know,
be completely unstructured, but also striking that balance between as
you call it, eyes up rugby, playing what you see
and allowing players who have the ability to create something
out of nothing in an unpredictable fashion to be able
to do that well.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I think in New Zellen we've got an absolute advantage.
You know, our DNA is such as that we like
to play with a ball in hand, and we like
to have flood, play with tempo. No, then we need
to go away from that. I think we need to
probably get back to that and look at some of
the our players, you know, the strategies of this world
and our pine nucrews, you know, they get the ball
in their hands and they can do anything for us.

(04:03):
So yes, we have to have a bit of structure,
there's no doubt about that. But we also have to
be able to break you know, when when it breaks down,
just play rugby and and I think we're not as
effective as that as we should be. I think, you know, Raiser,
for example, when I watched the Crusaders, we have things
like you have tactics from there, from inside the twenty
two the special line outs, we're not probably seeing quite

(04:27):
enough of that at the internet for level. I'm not
sure whether it's because they are froze and a little
bit because of it such it seems to be so
much you know, at stake, or whether it's just the
you know, they're not prepared to try that.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
How challenging are modern day defenses to penetrate because they've
improved too, haven't they?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Oh? Absolutely, And I think we could get the fact that,
you know, the dimensions of the rugby field have not changed,
but if we look at the physical makeup of the
individual from you know, right back in the Invincibles, where
you know you're you're forward if you were twelve stone
at best, that he's your biggest man. Well, now you've
got your halfbacks that are bigger them than you know,
assuming ady kgs. So their ability to cover ground defensively

(05:06):
has increased so much so of course there's a whole
lot less space to attack because the defenses are so good,
and also with the analysis that defensive coaches put into
the game. So absolutely, admittedly it is very much, very
difficult to attack and find space, but sides are doing that,
sides are able to analyze opposition and then find a

(05:27):
way through, and I think we're still we're still a
way way away from that ourselves to be able to
do that effectively.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
In terms of the responsibility within a coaching group, how much, say,
would a head coach typically have over the attack or
would they leave it almost entirely in the hands of
their specialist attack coach.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's good question, Piney. I think it really depends very
much on the makeup of your coaching group, how they
get on individuals involved. So you know, I can't speak
for the all backs and how they would operate, but
you'd like to think that if you're responsible for a
portfolio such as attack, then you're pretty much you know,
you go out there and run it the way you
see it should happen, And of course there'll be conversations

(06:09):
going on in the background, and I'm sure raised his
trust is Attack. I'm sure he asks you questions, lots
of questions, And it's also not easy to always get
it right. You can go out with your displaid plans,
but on the day, at the opposition that you're playing,
they've got a defense that's better than yours. It's counted
some of your so called attack strategy that you want

(06:31):
to put into place, then you are going to be
on the back foot. So it doesn't always work, and
that's where you've got to have the experience of the
players on the field to say, hey, Plan A is
not working. What do we do now to try and
correct space And it might be that they go back
to I don't know, a kicking in behind game or
an ability to go to the middle or rather than
go to the edge. So it just depends.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Do you think modern day players or the majority of
modern day players can play what they see, can make
decisions on the field once they reach provincial, super and
then test level.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I think it takes time. Years ago, the only thing
that you watched on television was rugby, and now a
young people today are growing up not watching the game
at all. They're watching a game it's NBA or it's league.
So the ability for them to understand and the study
of the game has probably been reduced. Yes, a bit
of there in professional environments, so they're getting probably a

(07:25):
lot more attention from coaches, but yeah, it's challenging and
I think also we've got to get their players time
they come out, we pick a lot of players at
twenty twenty one to twenty two, Well, most of those
boys will not play their best rugby until sort of
you know, mid mid twenties to late twenties, and that's
when they really can start understanding the game and starting

(07:45):
to rely on the experience and make the right decisions.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
And what a rugby team, and specifically a backline team
to typically split their prep time that they're preparing for
a big game. Will they split their prep time fifty
to fifty between attack and defense typically?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Again, another really good question. I think we've probably overloaded
how much time would used to spend on attack. But
now in the professional environments, there very much. You know,
they'll look at the components of the game, the set piece,
the teckning strategy, the attack with ball in hand, the contact.
You know, a lot of a lot of detail, a
lot of work goes into into those areas. So certainly

(08:24):
they would get a plenty of time, you know, more
time than probably the most to work on their attack. Conversely,
you know, depends it depends on the on the makeup
of the team and what the needs are for that
week for that particular team. Based on what happened the
previous week.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Off them really interesting John, interesting stuff. So how do
I mean we all want the All Blacks to win
every time they play. We know that they're in a
bit of a challenging situation right now and yesterday was
the latest, the latest example of that. How do you
feel about the All Blacks optimism wise midway through the
World Cup cycle?

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, it's I mean, I think I think you just
said it. You know, we we expect you'll get to
win every game, but the reality is they're not going
to win every game, and they're going to have a
few pickups along the road. Now they want to work
up on a couple of years time. This is all
we've forgotten. So you know, we've heard some commentary around
have they gone backwards since Buzzi's time. Well, I don't

(09:19):
think they've gone backwards. I think what he has, what
Rais has done really well, is is he's not got
a wide group of players that can play test match rugby.
So you know, yester year you used to play your
match day twenty three and that was that all we're
not We've got game time. So I think we've got
a lot more players now than a lot of countries
that have had some test match experience. So I'm confident,
I'm optimistic that what we're doing is right. I think yes,

(09:42):
We've got to obviously tweak a few things and be
a bit better in some of our things, like our discipline.
You know, we have lost a lot of the critical
moments this year, and critical moments in the game, because
that's the close are absolutely crucial. You know, you're just
you're up twelve and up to seventeen mil in the
last three test makes is you've got to nil the
next job. You've got to be able to put sides away,

(10:04):
and we're not learning from that, then we struggle at
the Test. It will Cup in a couple of years time,
but I'm confident that will be too much two years
more experienced in that time and we'll come out with
a pretty good side that we'll be ready to win
that World Cup again.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Really interesting chatting rugby with you, John, Thanks so much
for taking the time tonight.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Cheer funny.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Thanks John, John haggittt For more

Speaker 1 (10:26):
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