June 27, 2025 • 40 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Eric Roy, Michael Every, Todd McClay, and Shane Jones.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The best of the Country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Choose the Bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience, Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Ka and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. This
is the best of the Country. It's brought to you
by Rabobanks songs from nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Because I'm in Southland this.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Weekend for a fortieth reunion of a great footy side
we had down on Riversdale in nineteen eighty five, I'm
going to kick it off with Eric Royd. He's a
good south Winder as well winner of the Pinnacle Award
for Outstanding Contribution to the Primary Sector at the PINS Awards,
(00:58):
which were held midweek in christ Church. Along with the
Primary Industry in New Zealand Summit keynote speaker there was
Michael Every Rabobank, Singapore.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Based global strategist.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
He was the star turn on day one of the
Primary Industry's summit. But could he convince the six hundred
attendees that Donald Trump isn't as nutty as we think.
We're also going to hear from Todd McClay, Minister of
Agriculture and Trade, on trying to shut down carbon farming,
and on yesterday show we let him off the chain.
The Prince of the province is Martua Shane. You can
(01:30):
never be disappointed with what he says, unless, of course
you're a member of a regional council. All that on
the Best of the Country this morning, and it's brought
to you by Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Rabobank.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
But the man of the moment my old mate from
South and we go back a long way, Eric than
thirty years. I was so pleased and proud for you
to win that award last night, and you were quite emotionally,
you were almost close to tears.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Well about tears.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
I things got a wee bit emotional there when I
started to think about the contribution the family that never
get recognized, allowing me to do what I wanted to
do or felt I should do. So it was good
to have an opportunity to be able to acknowledge them.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You've been a farmer or raised on a farm farm
boy all your life, but your contribution to agriculture started
way back in nineteen sixty seven. You must have been
just a pup then, have just just left school. You
went over to do voluntary work in Vanuatu. Yeah, reach
them how to find.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Well it was called New Hebrides then, so it does
go back a weee way and yeah, no, I was
pretty agitated, shall we say, or concerned about where the
world was going at that time.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And of course nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Well yeah, but you know, when I leave school, which
was sixty five of the two hundred and six countries
in the world, I read somewhere that only thirty were
true democracies and the rest were going to to totalitarianism.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
So, well, what can I do?
Speaker 6 (03:10):
And about that time I heard Bobby Kennedy say service
to others as the rent that we pay for our
space on Earth. Very good quote I still use today,
and so that's what kind of stimulated me. And I
went over there and that was quite a cool experience
and opened my eyes to think a bit more about
a whole lot of things that I learned about coconuts
(03:31):
and cocoa and things I had no idea about.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, you haven't got too many coconuts or cocoa in
the South. And of course that was nineteen sixty seven
Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. Yeah sixty eighty Yeah, yeah, right,
So there it was into Young Farmers because we're going
to go through your career it's a good story. We
won't talk about your rugby career. But then you go
to Young Farmers and you kind of served or competed
(03:56):
at all at every level.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Yeah, well, into debating and public speaking and stock judging
and young family all of those things that they were.
They were an essential part of sort of learning more.
And if you go back to the origins of Young
Farmers where you know Ac Cameron wanted to get young
farmers to have more than contamination learning from the appearance,
(04:21):
and you know Young Farmers was a great institution then
and is now it's come to a sort of renaissance period.
Now it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
And next week we've got the FMG Young Farmer Grand
Final and our home patches in Iamond need in these
days in the Cargo Southland.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Yep, and looking forward to that and it's a great
shop window for just selling excellence.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
And I think it's great.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You were runner up in the Young Farmer of the
Year Grand Final in nineteen seventy five and last night
when you got your presentation, I said, who was the
bugger who beat you?
Speaker 6 (04:52):
Yeah, Paul Charman from Darfield. Now I was well beaten,
but was a great experience.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
It was more of.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Well, there was no practical then, and once I got
involved with the Scallop Young Farmer of the Year organizing,
we introduced practical and it's grown into the competition that
is today.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Isn't it fantastic that a woman, namely Emma Paul can
win it and compete on an even keel in the
practical Yeah, well.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
We've been waiting for that to happen for a long
time and I think the first woman to make the
finalists Denise Brown, back about nineteen eighty two or three
or thereabouts, and so really great that that happened, and
it broke a glass ceiling.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You became the national President of Young Farmers, later became
the World President of Young Farmers. But I'm going to
fast forward now because you were a farmer and amongst
all this as well, but I want to fast forward
to your parliamentary career.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Yeah, okay, Well, I guess coming out of the egg
Sag in the nineties, I was pretty disenchanted with farming
and I'd stood for the meat board and done a
few things, but what I really think, well, let's go
to the the face where decisions are made.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
And so I went in.
Speaker 6 (06:03):
I want to be the Minister of Agriculture, make some
changes that never happened, but you certainly have an influence
in there and cheering the egg Caucus and the Primary
Production Select Committee and a few jobs like that. But
I got sort of shuffled into being a weapon, then
into assistant speaker and then ebudy speaker and you kind
of serve where you've got a skill set. And young
farmers taught me how to cheer meetings, Absolutely no doubt
(06:25):
about that.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And you're a bit of a stickler for standing order.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I am yeh yep. And everything you do is on precing.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
If you let something go, someone else will and we've
actually seen that in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Now do you reckon the current speaker? This is getting
off script and yeah, please feel free to go there.
But does Jerry brownly handling it as well as he could.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
Well, he's kind of put stuff back in the bag
that Trevor Mallard led out of the bag.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Who's let's be honest, he's the worst speaker we've ever
had on.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
This gall in my lifetime anyway, Yeah, I think so,
And I'll nurse feeding babies in the chair and being
inclusive and all that, and the change address.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
All of that stuff has.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Just been, you know, a wedge of just moving the
standards to where we are today. And that's why you
said I was a stickler. I just think you set
your standard and you hold them and everything else eminates from.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Winston instead, right, don't start me on the cowboy hats
and the colonial anyhow. Anyway, So six terms as an MP,
originally four hour roer, then from the cargo when they're
all combined, and a bit of ill health in the
end probably changed your mind about retiring, did it. Oh?
Speaker 6 (07:30):
I know that the ill health was non Hodgkins slim
f Homer in ninety ninety seven, and that's probably what upset
my sort of trend into.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
The Minister of angry.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Yeah, well, that sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
And then there was changes of leadership at the top,
and no one knew how brilliant I was. So and
now I had that bit of a fight on my
hands for about a year, and yeah, got that behind me,
so carried on. I one of the things people say, Ah,
are you're still going now? Actually, in my second life,
I was supposed to die when I was forty nine
(08:03):
arm and I'm just in my twenties again.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Now do you.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Do you mind me letting this fact out? You're seventy
seven on Friday. That makes you almost as old as
Winston he's still going.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Strong well, and Trump he's two years older as well.
Don't compare me to trop me just.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
A final one, because this is an award, an accolade
for sixty years of service to New Zealand egg. It
was the pinnacle award these days. I mean you're still
in there. You're the chair of n Z Pork. Not
bad for a broken down Southland sheep farmer.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Yeah, well you go back to say, you know, what
did I know about coconuts and coco Well, I mean
I got interested in pork because hang on, what place
of Monogastric Scott in the future of New Zealand farming.
Here's an opportunity to learn a new skill. And when
Damien O'Connor rang me out and said, hey, I've got
a job for you. Interesting call from the other side
of the house. Yep, I need someone that can sort
(08:54):
of bring this thing together and I need to learn
about this and we never stopped learning, either going forward
or going back.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And just a final comment, we need to stop importing
what is at sixty percent of yeah criminal, So when
you go in there to buy your bacon, it might
be a bit cheaper, but look for New Zealand made
minds you it might be come from overseas and have
a New Zealand. And that's a challenge.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
That's an ongoing argument.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
And I took the rigs to this Regulation Review Select
Committee and they're under review again.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
It's an ongoing challenge.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Hey Rrick Roy, congratulations. I was so proud of you
last night, an old mate winning the Outstanding Contribution Award
at the Primary Industry New Zealand Awards last night.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural
communities Rubbo Bank.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Michael every Rabobank Global strategist. We're based out of Dunedin
and I do joke that after chatting to you, I
want to climb to the seventh floor of the Westpac
building and jump because you always have me worrying about
the state of world, and I'm thinking, with what's happened
in the past week.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
What are you going to come up with?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yet, someone left your presentation this morning and I heard
the mutter on the way out after hearing you, maybe
Trump's not as nutty as people think he is.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon. Lovely to be with you in
person for the first time. I think doing this show,
at least, No, he's not as nutty as people think
he is. And I would add neither am I. And
in terms of the you know, jumping off the seventh floor,
I've often tried to make the point to you that
actually there's a really optimistic side to what I try
(10:36):
and get across.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You said when Trump was elected Trump two points zero
that this would change the face of how the world
does politics and it hairs well.
Speaker 7 (10:46):
I mean that was a no brainer, to be honest.
I mean, if you look at what he was saying
he was going to do when he came into power,
the only question is would he actually deliver, and he
absolutely has. I mean, in terms of economic policy, there's
been a huge change. Can see trade policy has been
shaken up. Every domestic policy in the US is being
shaken up and at the same time, primary focus right
(11:08):
now as we're talking is just in the past few
minutes we've seen more developments from the Middle East, which
again shake everything up.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, he's declared a total ceasefire. You tell me that
the Israelis are flat out bombing Tehran as we speak,
and vice versa.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Well, Tehran's not bombing Israel right now, but oh sorry,
Iran isn't bombing Tel Aviv and Hayfe right now. But
Israel is still bombing Tehran.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So when does the ceasefire come under play?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Well, he said a while ago, he said, in six hours.
They never announced them immediately, So both size traditionally in
the Middle East always try and bomb right up to
the last minute. So I would imagine you will get
more firing right until legally they're supposed to stop according
to this agreement, and then hopefully things can hold, at
which point what we were being told a few days ago,
(11:52):
which is this risks world War III. This is an
absolute calamity. Now, those risks were there, to be clear,
but they were only what we call tail risks. They
were never the central risk. Instead, touch Wood, what it
appears we have got is a defanged or defenestrated Iran
which doesn't have a nuclear weapon, which is a huge
positive for the region and for the world, and a
(12:14):
massive demonstration of the reassertion of both Israeli and US
power in conjunction, which could open the door to stability
and peace.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
So this has been a huge diplomatic victory, potentially for
Trump using bombs.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Yeah, that's how you sometimes get victory.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
America.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm just going to pick the eyes out of your
presentation this morning. You said America is essentially isolationist and
anti free trade, but certainly make America great again.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
It's America first.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
What I said was historically America is a realist rather
than an idealist, and isolationist rather than internationalist. It has
periods where it tries to become more global and more
pro free trade, but we're currently reverting back to type
which is a more controlled trade.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Now.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
I don't think America is anti trade, but they're not
interested in trade where they import and don't export, which
is what they've been doing for a very long time.
They want trade partners who when they sell to them,
will turn around and say, well, I've just sold this
much to you. I've got these dollars in my pocket
now I want to buy something from you. That's what
they want to see.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Well, the other point you've made, and this is coming
to pass. I guess America wants to reindustrialize and make
stuff again.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
They do, that's the plan. Let's join the dots here.
They've just potentially brought, you know, peace to the Middle
East of a sort, as you said, with bombs. The
bombs that they used to achieve that. Reports are they
used twelve of them. We don't know how many they have,
but intelligent estimates but maybe only around thirty or forty.
They don't have a lot of them. They now need
(13:55):
to make more. So the whole point is if you
want to have that Pax Americana of sorts, you need
to have the weapons, you know, to be used to
enforce it. And that's been America's problem. They haven't been
making enough of this stuff. They need to keep the
global system policed, if you will, so they want to
start reindustrializing a.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Lot of us.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Myself and Cloded of being dismissive of Trump's tariffs, I
think they're interventionalist and not good for world free trade.
We're a nation depending on world on the world and
some free trading. But you're saying tariffs are the way
of the future.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
We've almost gone.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Back to the future like it used to be.
Speaker 7 (14:33):
Well, tariffs were the way of the world forever up
until a few decades ago, where we decided that we
knew better than the totality of global economic history and
if we remove tariffs everything would work out.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
I mean, let me put a hypothetical to you. I mean,
New Zealand. Obviously you're a fantastic producer of food and
a food exporter. What if there was a new country
that suddenly appeared on the map that could produce everything
that you do at a third of the cost, because
you know, they were using indenture labor, so whatever trick
of the trade they were using, and they were flooding
your market and every market you export to, and suddenly
you couldn't sell food anywhere. I wonder how free trade
(15:09):
New Zealand would be in that situation. So it's always
a question of where you sit in the relationship that
tells you how you feel about it. You're quite rightly
in favor of it because of where you sit now,
but that's not always true for everybody.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Wanston Peter's there foreign a FeAs Minister said, we're in
the most the world was the most unstable it's been
since the Cuban missile crisis of October nineteen sixty two.
Would you concur with that?
Speaker 7 (15:33):
We came close to that in the past couple of days,
where some of the rumored headlines out there about what
Russia might or might not do could have been an
echo in the worst case scenario, and I flagged it
at work, but I said, look, it's unlikely, but you
have to put it out there as a scenario, is
that Russia could have done what it threatened twenty four
hours ago, which was to send a nuclear weapon to Iran.
(15:56):
Let's say, for example, they put it in a cargo
plane and they say, this plane is flowing to Tehran.
It's got a nuclear weapon in it. It's Russian. You
shoot it down. You're at war with us on a
nuclear level. But if it gets there, Iran's got a nuke.
What are you going to do? And it would have
forced a Cuban missile style crisis on America and Israel.
Thinking about it today, the former President Medvedev, who tweeted that, said,
(16:19):
basically only joking have no intention of doing anything like that,
so they completely blinked and walked it back.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Does Russian a but player and the power play between
China and the US. They are the superpowers. Russia's no
longer a superpower.
Speaker 7 (16:33):
No it's not. It's super spoiling things. It can't build
very much, which is what you need to be a superpower.
But they're a super spoiler in that they can disrupt
other people's systems and they will always be powerful because
of their geography, their commodities, and the number of nuclear
weapons that they've got. But that doesn't give you the
basis to build very much.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
One of the slides you put up this morning pertained
to New Zealand our history. You went back to eighteen forty,
the founding of our nation effectively, and you said, from
eighteen forty right through to nineteen forty one, the beginning
of the Second World War, we were a farm for
the UK and the British Empire. Are then post war,
(17:14):
until Britain entered the EU, we were a farm for
Mother England, for Britain. We became after that a farm
for Asia. You stopped at twenty twenty four. Who are
we a farm for now?
Speaker 7 (17:25):
Well, I put that question to Kiwis. But that is
the key question because there were two parts of that slide,
and you alluded to it. At the beginning, you were
a farm for the UK, with the UK protecting you.
Then you were a farm for the UK with the
Americans protecting you. Then you were a farm for Asia
with the Americans protecting you. Now the question is not
(17:46):
just who are you a farm for, it's who is
protecting you? And what I was trying to say is
you have to start with the second question to answer
the first. You can't say America is protecting us, but
we'll be a farm for China, for example, because that
may not be compatible with America protecting.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
You and the future. Can we afford to sit on
the fence. No, no, we can't. So Winston Peters is right.
We either choose the US or we choose China. And
choosing China would probably be disastrous for US from a
security point of.
Speaker 7 (18:15):
View, Yes it would. Ultimately that choice is likely to happen.
Nothing's written in stone. China itself could change. But if
it doesn't, yes, logically you get to that decision point.
But then if you choose China, that's disaster US for
you in terms of security. If you choose the US,
it's extremely damaging in terms of trade, so there are
trade offs that need to be made.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
The best of the Country with Rubbobak.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Grow with rubber Bag.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Welcome back to the Best of the Country. My name
is Jamie Mackay. The show's brought to you each and
every Saturday morning here on News Talk said be by Rabobank.
We're growing a better New Zealand together. You've heard from
Michael every Rabobanks, Singapore based global strategist, very much the
Star turn on day one of the Primary Industry Summit
(19:11):
in Christchurch earlier this week. Before the end of the hour,
we're going to hear from Todd McLay, Minister of Agriculture
and Trade and Shane Jones, the Prince of the Provinces.
Buckle in for that one, folks. But Rabobank also this
week released a new white paper looking at ownership and
succession in New Zealand farming, and some of the numbers,
(19:32):
quite frankly, were frightening. The new report reveals that over
the next decade, more than half of all New Zealand
farm and orchard owners, approximately seventeen thy three hundred and
twenty farmers and growers, will reach the age of sixty five.
At current land values. The transition of these farmers' operations represents,
(19:52):
on a conservative estimate, over one hundred and fifty billion
dollars in farming assets that will depend on a successful
succession process. Very tricky ground to maneuver that one. If
you'd like to read a copy of the paper, you
can find it on the rabobank website rabobank dot co
dot NZ.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Todd McClay up.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Next, the best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the
bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Rabobank.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Let's kick it off with the Minister of Agriculture and
Trade who was one of the keynotes speakers at the
PINS summit, Todd McClay. Good to have you on the show.
Todd couldn't catch up with you at the awards dinner
because you had to go back to Wellington because on
Tuesday evening the Farm to Forest Ban passed its first
(20:43):
reading unanimously and this was off the back of every
party in the House voting to support it. Did I
get my evening's right? Was it Tuesday or Wednesday evening?
Speaker 8 (20:53):
It was, Hey, Jamie, good evening. Yes, it was Tuesday evening.
You're writer and that's right. So the stepped towards stopping
wholesale farm the forest conversion, planting of plying trees on
our best foods producing land going to ets has happened.
Speaker 9 (21:09):
It started.
Speaker 8 (21:09):
We're going to get this in law by October this year.
But it's backdated to when the Prime Minister and I
made the announcement down in Central Otago or Southland on
the fourth of December last year. And it is very
very well put together. It's very very strict and as
I hear a few people around the place wondering if
somebody's gone out and bought trees thinking they can plant,
(21:32):
you know, after that date, they've got to be very careful.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
They're going to lose.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Okay, cod Well, why am I hearing anecdotally that there's
still a lot of blanket farm to forestry conversions happening.
People are raughting the rules.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
No well, so in essence, the announcement's made from the
fourth of December, that's when it will take effect. Any
planting you're seeing at the moment is a decision that
was made more than a year ago. So if you think, Jamie,
you went out the end the last year for that
and brought some land, it normally takes about a season
to two seasons before you're able to plant. So there's
still going to be some purchases or conversions that are
(22:07):
in the system going all the way through. We're put
in transitional means as to say, if somebody was in
the process before that date. You know, we're a center
right government. We're not taking value of them based upon
their decision at the time. But anybody out there that
thinks from the fourth of December onwards are smarter than
the law is going to lose some money because we
have put this together to achieve what we need to
(22:29):
stop wholesale conversion of our best food producing land and
going into trees.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
And when will this finally get into legislation. It's obviously
past its first reading this week.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
Yeah, so we're putting it through very quickly. I sent
it off to the Environment Committee and it will be
out for consultation and they've got seven weeks to work
through it and turn it around. We're given them the
ability to virtually work every hour of the day. Between
now and then, I do expect there'll be a lot
of submissions on both sides around the law. They'll get
it back to us and I think it's by the
(23:01):
thirteenth of August, and then we will put it through
the raining stages during the month of August, so we
can get some of the rules and the regulations in
place in September and it will take effect during October,
and so we move very very quickly. The point of
this is it's very well signaled. I campaigned on this policy,
it came through the Codition Agreement, and then we've taken
(23:22):
a lot of time to get the detail rights. So
there aren't any you know, any consequences that are not foreseen.
There is a lot of detail in there, but fundamentally
it is as simple as us. New Zealand makes money
exporting around the world, and we do so by producing
food and we're wholesale conversion the farms takes place, we
(23:42):
lose rural schools, we lose rural communities, we lose rural
families and rural businesses. There's a role for Farcy to play,
a very important one. In New Zealand, but not at
the expense or particularly sheep and beef land. And so
I'm pretty pleased, surprised, but very pleased that there was
unanimous support in Parliament for us. I think some of
the Opposition party sort of had pre qualifications and will
(24:03):
find ways to wriggle out. But I say to the
Labor Party, if you actually pack farmers, vote for this
bill and then get on board with some other stuff
I'm doing, because it's good for all of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I've got a text just arrived and Todd says the
s Todd a rampant forestry conversions still going on.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
On Hawk's Bay.
Speaker 8 (24:22):
Yeah, but largely that's nothing to do with something that
happened from the fourth of December onwards. And just as
you know, there'll be farmers that want to make changes
they decided last year. They get to continue to do that.
But anybody that has bought land but after the fourth
of December or found trees had them before and didn't
have the land after the fourth of December, it will
(24:43):
not be able to plant.
Speaker 9 (24:44):
Trees to enter the missions training schepe.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
But farmers will be able to make choices themselves they'll
be able to plant up the twenty five percent of
their own land if they want to. And on lack
six land, we're going to have a small quota to
allow some choice for farmers and other landowners, but the
wholesale conversions will stop because of all will say it's
not possible. But much of the planting you see this
season is based on decisions we're making a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, okay, And it's the blanket planting that irks people,
Like if a farmer wants to plant twenty five percent
of his farm and trees, good luck to them or hurt.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
So what you were seeing is people speculating on you know,
the carbon price of the future, and then it would
go up, not on whether you can get money out
us you know, how to meat or dairy. And my
biggest concern was the effect that was having upon communities
but also our exports. If you think about it right,
land prices don't go down in New Zealand. You can
see a situation where our best dairy land was purchased
and trees put on it because somebody thinks a carbon
(25:38):
price will be a lot more worth a lot more
than milk in the future, and that would just be
absolute madness. And so this is a big deal for
our national government to put restrictions like this on private
property rights.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
Except if you want.
Speaker 8 (25:51):
To plant trees all over your farm, you can do. So,
you just can't put into the emissions trading scheme, so
that carton price won't drive land uice decisions. What will
drive Landry's decisions is what's best for that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Man, all right, Just just to finish on it rigs
to me, this whole thing of the Emperor's New Clothes
Todd McLay and I worry, and I wonder it may
not be a problem for me twenty years down the track,
but for future generations we're just setting ourselves up to
fail with the carbon forestry we already have. And I'm
not talking about production forestry here. I'm talking about spray
(26:26):
and walk away because anecdotally, once again I'm hearing there's
lots of that.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Yeah, look, I agree, I'm not responsible for these years.
But as a forestry minister, I think it's mad. We
can plant trees and leave them forever and we don't
even get commercial value out of them by putting them
through a sawmill or sending them on a ship overseas,
so I'm not a big.
Speaker 9 (26:45):
Fan of that. However, there is a role for that
to play.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
In some situations with our farmers and others around the
country that want to plant matters and other sorts of
trees and leave them. We're doing quite a bit of
work to recognize those and make it easier. But but
I can't disagree with you, Jamie, that we're going to
part a pine tire somewhere and leave it forever of
the name of climate change because it's a bit more
convenient or easier for a government, and we don't even
create jobs for it. Is madness and that's.
Speaker 9 (27:10):
A really big part of why we're putting this don.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
On changing farms into forests in place over the next
two months.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Todd McLay, Minister of Agriculture and Trade, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You're welcome the best of the Country with Robobank, the
bank with local agri banking experts passionate about the future
of rural communities Rubbo Bank.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Good morning, New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. You're listening to
the best of the Country and some great songs from.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
We're going to wrap it with the Prince of the
Province's Martua, Shane Jones. As I said earlier, Bucklin for
that one. Rabobank Good Deeds promo finishes are closer play Monday,
so you've got to get your entry in. If you
want the five grand cash plus a day's labor from
the country and Rabobank teams, just go to the website
rabobank dot co dot nz. You'll find it there, or
(28:03):
text good to five double O nine and we'll send
you back the direct link to enter.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Shane Jones trap the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
How good, ay and welcome to the country. I'm Jamie McKay.
(28:47):
Straight into it. Today's songs from nineteen eighty five. I've
got a rugby reunion in Riversdale, forty years on from
great Times with some farmers down south. Our first guest
is of a similar genera to me, Shane Jones, Minister
of getting rid of Regional councils. Where were you by
the way in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 10 (29:08):
Nineteen eighty five, my third child, Torhir, was born. I
was helping dad. I'd recently come back from Australia grow
strawberries on a couple of paddocks, and we put in
a massive amount of watermelons and cash crops, because, as
you may recall, those were the early days of rogerenomics,
(29:28):
so things were pretty challenging.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, farming in those days was about to be described
nineteen eighty five the first year, first full year of
the Longey Douglas government, and farming was designated to be
a sunset industry.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
How wrong were they?
Speaker 11 (29:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:45):
While, as I recall, the vision was to create a
switzerland of money changes and money lenders in the South Pacific,
nothing could be further from the truth. Mother Nature's given
us a bounty here, and it's our job to use
it and completely ensure that our next generation better off
(30:05):
than you and I now.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I alway did Harvard University fit in amongst all of this?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
For you?
Speaker 10 (30:10):
Born in nineteen fifty nine with four children, set off
in early nineteen ninety via Hawaii. Washed up in Boston,
A couple of friends from Quebec came down Menace at
the airport found out where our flat was a place
called Brookline, not very far away from where the famous
political dynasty the Kennedys grew up. And therefore the guts
(30:34):
of eighteen months two years with my late wife and
our four kids. So it wasn't for the fainthearted, but
at the end of the studies spent three or four
months touring around America campgrounds of America.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Now you've been upsetting people on the South Island, namely
the Otago Regional Council because you want read are regional
councils anyhow, you've called them the Kremlin of the South Island.
Is this because they're not allowing you to baby dig
at the mccray's mine and land from Dunedin because of
an endangered moth.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
Okay, the Otago Regional Council is obviously the pollop Bureau.
It is peopled by antagonistic, angry, smelly, hippie greeny sort
of characters.
Speaker 11 (31:25):
Tell us how you really feel thirty thousand odd square
miles that they're responsible for. At most, this gold mining
extension would cover a couple of hundred hectsks at most,
and just divide that into the thirty thousand square kilometers,
and then you will understand why this council and their
(31:46):
reports designed to undermine and close down mining, destroy jobs,
get rid of economic wealth. They have no authority to
do it. And I dismiss all of their reports as
ideological graffiti. I know that they're stronger than me because
we're not checking them every day. So we're going to
disestablish the regional councils of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So what's the new format then? Do we just have
unitary authorities?
Speaker 10 (32:10):
Well, there's a great deal of sense. I mean today
there's a bad flood in and around Tasman Bay Nelson.
They don't have a regional council. I'm sure the people
up there are coping with the challenges. By the way,
if you want to know how to deal with floods
and changes in weather systems, then build stop banks. Who's
the guy who's found the two hundred million dollars to
(32:31):
build the stop banks?
Speaker 9 (32:32):
You're talking to him.
Speaker 10 (32:33):
That's why I don't believe and I never have and
all this moral hysteria to do with climate. And you
should be happy that I have announced that we have
pulled out of some oil anti oil alliance that just
Cinda signed us up to in twenty twenty one. I'm
sick of all these hippie health, after school care, just
cinder orientated initiatives. We've got to abandon them.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Ball Now you realize the Otago Regional Council and a
good old right if he made of mine is actually
I think the vice chair he mightn't like this, but
they're just building a big, flash new building here in indeed,
and I think it's worth something like fifty million bucks.
Speaker 11 (33:09):
Huge.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It's the size of an indoor stadium almost, and I
worry that they're going to fill up with bureaucrats.
Speaker 10 (33:16):
Well, the Prime Minister has endorsed what I've said. The
Prime Mister has said after the RMA changes there won't
be a need for regional Council. So I can't comment
on why Otago whites are willing to put that level
of capital into a new building. But know this from me.
We had a summit recently with an investment purpose to
(33:36):
attract international investors. What do we have in Otago? We
have a tiny, unelected, unknown group of people with their
deep hostility towards mining. They have elevated some sort of
naked moth found dead to a status that's more important
than mining, income, jobs, exports, and if anything, they've turned
(34:00):
the regional Council into a sitting duck.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Now I'm reading from the Otago Daily Time Shame, where
you've made the front page today. You're saying all this
for a dead moth. It's an ideological attempt to defeat mining.
It's truly unbelievable. This is a part of New Zealand
where no one goes. And you're talking about the McCrae's
mine inland from Otaga. I want to remind you go there, Shane.
Speaker 9 (34:24):
The mother listeners.
Speaker 10 (34:27):
There's thirty thousand odd kilometers that this council's in charge of.
So they've decided where the landscape has already compromised because
there's been a mine there. Mate, the judgment being exercised
by these zealots. They're allowed to get away with it
because the councilors are too weak. The councilors are either
(34:49):
compromised with their ideological proclivities or they're too weak to
haul in the scribblers that are ruining our economy.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
That's why the councilors have to go.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
And I'm taking a remit to our party conference in September.
I know the party will back this remit. We're going
to the next election. It's good to hear the Prime
Minister encourage my line of thinking. And all of you
people who are currently working for regional councils acting in
a manner it's very hostile and destructive economic development. You
(35:20):
either change your ways or change your job.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
How do you realize?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And I think he was a former New Zealand first MP,
Michael Laws as on the Otago Regional Council.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
Well, Michael Laws, without a sliver of doubt, will support
what I'm saying. But as I recall, Michael has always
locked in some sort of mortal moral debate with all
the Communists and the apparachniks from the Kremlin that populate
your council. I can't understand why the people of Otaga
(35:51):
allowing a tiny, unelected, unelectable group of Zealots write these
ideologically driven types of graffiti to stop jobs, stop mining,
stop economic development at a time where we've just introduced
fast just introduced only fast Trek, but foreign direct investment,
(36:13):
legislative improvements, and you've got a tiny group hidden like
a bed bug in the crease of an ideological sheet
they have to go.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Just to finish on you have you kind of New
Zealand's Donald Trump in some ways? I think is that
a compliment? I'm not sure, Shane. He said drill baby, drill,
You said dig baby, dig, So you kind of trumpish there.
Do you think he deserves a Nobel peace price? People
are talking about that?
Speaker 10 (36:43):
Ah, yes, yes, yes, Well I won't grace your show
with an F bomb. But I'll tell you what, there's
a great deal to be said for the way in
which he intervenes and breaks mindsets, and he breaks people's
established orthodoxes, the way they are set in their ways.
(37:04):
And that's what we're trying to do through New Zealand. First,
we're breaking the grievance mentality of Marridom's largest tribe than Napooli,
and God is my witness it's going to happen, probably
happen after the next election. We are going to get
rid of regional councils and look doc doc represent over
thirty three percent of the country's landscape. Of course, there
(37:26):
are cases why we should look after national parks, but
the cohed Only National Park has got a lot of
minerals under it. We may need to revisit that the
next election.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Deig baby deg Shane Jones, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
See ya the best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose
the bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Rabobank Shane Jones wrapping the best of the country looking
forward to his company. At the Big Tapooki Rugby Club
fundraiser on August tow already sold out. I'm Jamie McKay.
I'm done and dusted. I'm going to leave you with
tears for fairs. Started with shout this is everybody wants
to rule the world. Donald Trump and maybe Shane Jones.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
Read so sad.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That God.
Speaker 12 (39:52):
Say that some no never never, never die. Why w
they want a dam basketball rack fare body
The best of the Country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Choose the Bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience, Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Ka and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. This
is the best of the Country. It's brought to you
by Rabobanks songs from nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Because I'm in Southland this.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Weekend for a fortieth reunion of a great footy side
we had down on Riversdale in nineteen eighty five, I'm
going to kick it off with Eric Royd. He's a
good south Winder as well winner of the Pinnacle Award
for Outstanding Contribution to the Primary Sector at the PINS Awards,
(00:58):
which were held midweek in christ Church. Along with the
Primary Industry in New Zealand Summit keynote speaker there was
Michael Every Rabobank, Singapore.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Based global strategist.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
He was the star turn on day one of the
Primary Industry's summit. But could he convince the six hundred
attendees that Donald Trump isn't as nutty as we think.
We're also going to hear from Todd McClay, Minister of
Agriculture and Trade, on trying to shut down carbon farming,
and on yesterday show we let him off the chain.
The Prince of the province is Martua Shane. You can
(01:30):
never be disappointed with what he says, unless, of course
you're a member of a regional council. All that on
the Best of the Country this morning, and it's brought
to you by Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Rabobank.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
But the man of the moment my old mate from
South and we go back a long way, Eric than
thirty years. I was so pleased and proud for you
to win that award last night, and you were quite emotionally,
you were almost close to tears.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Well about tears.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
I things got a wee bit emotional there when I
started to think about the contribution the family that never
get recognized, allowing me to do what I wanted to
do or felt I should do. So it was good
to have an opportunity to be able to acknowledge them.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You've been a farmer or raised on a farm farm
boy all your life, but your contribution to agriculture started
way back in nineteen sixty seven. You must have been
just a pup then, have just just left school. You
went over to do voluntary work in Vanuatu. Yeah, reach
them how to find.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Well it was called New Hebrides then, so it does
go back a weee way and yeah, no, I was
pretty agitated, shall we say, or concerned about where the
world was going at that time.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And of course nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Well yeah, but you know, when I leave school, which
was sixty five of the two hundred and six countries
in the world, I read somewhere that only thirty were
true democracies and the rest were going to to totalitarianism.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
So, well, what can I do?
Speaker 6 (03:10):
And about that time I heard Bobby Kennedy say service
to others as the rent that we pay for our
space on Earth. Very good quote I still use today,
and so that's what kind of stimulated me. And I
went over there and that was quite a cool experience
and opened my eyes to think a bit more about
a whole lot of things that I learned about coconuts
(03:31):
and cocoa and things I had no idea about.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, you haven't got too many coconuts or cocoa in
the South. And of course that was nineteen sixty seven
Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. Yeah sixty eighty Yeah, yeah, right,
So there it was into Young Farmers because we're going
to go through your career it's a good story. We
won't talk about your rugby career. But then you go
to Young Farmers and you kind of served or competed
(03:56):
at all at every level.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Yeah, well, into debating and public speaking and stock judging
and young family all of those things that they were.
They were an essential part of sort of learning more.
And if you go back to the origins of Young
Farmers where you know Ac Cameron wanted to get young
farmers to have more than contamination learning from the appearance,
(04:21):
and you know Young Farmers was a great institution then
and is now it's come to a sort of renaissance period.
Now it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
And next week we've got the FMG Young Farmer Grand
Final and our home patches in Iamond need in these
days in the Cargo Southland.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
Yep, and looking forward to that and it's a great
shop window for just selling excellence.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
And I think it's great.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You were runner up in the Young Farmer of the
Year Grand Final in nineteen seventy five and last night
when you got your presentation, I said, who was the
bugger who beat you?
Speaker 6 (04:52):
Yeah, Paul Charman from Darfield. Now I was well beaten,
but was a great experience.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
It was more of.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Well, there was no practical then, and once I got
involved with the Scallop Young Farmer of the Year organizing,
we introduced practical and it's grown into the competition that
is today.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Isn't it fantastic that a woman, namely Emma Paul can
win it and compete on an even keel in the
practical Yeah, well.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
We've been waiting for that to happen for a long
time and I think the first woman to make the
finalists Denise Brown, back about nineteen eighty two or three
or thereabouts, and so really great that that happened, and
it broke a glass ceiling.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You became the national President of Young Farmers, later became
the World President of Young Farmers. But I'm going to
fast forward now because you were a farmer and amongst
all this as well, but I want to fast forward
to your parliamentary career.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Yeah, okay, Well, I guess coming out of the egg
Sag in the nineties, I was pretty disenchanted with farming
and I'd stood for the meat board and done a
few things, but what I really think, well, let's go
to the the face where decisions are made.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
And so I went in.
Speaker 6 (06:03):
I want to be the Minister of Agriculture, make some
changes that never happened, but you certainly have an influence
in there and cheering the egg Caucus and the Primary
Production Select Committee and a few jobs like that. But
I got sort of shuffled into being a weapon, then
into assistant speaker and then ebudy speaker and you kind
of serve where you've got a skill set. And young
farmers taught me how to cheer meetings, Absolutely no doubt
(06:25):
about that.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And you're a bit of a stickler for standing order.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I am yeh yep. And everything you do is on precing.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
If you let something go, someone else will and we've
actually seen that in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Now do you reckon the current speaker? This is getting
off script and yeah, please feel free to go there.
But does Jerry brownly handling it as well as he could.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
Well, he's kind of put stuff back in the bag
that Trevor Mallard led out of the bag.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Who's let's be honest, he's the worst speaker we've ever
had on.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
This gall in my lifetime anyway, Yeah, I think so,
And I'll nurse feeding babies in the chair and being
inclusive and all that, and the change address.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
All of that stuff has.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Just been, you know, a wedge of just moving the
standards to where we are today. And that's why you
said I was a stickler. I just think you set
your standard and you hold them and everything else eminates from.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Winston instead, right, don't start me on the cowboy hats
and the colonial anyhow. Anyway, So six terms as an MP,
originally four hour roer, then from the cargo when they're
all combined, and a bit of ill health in the
end probably changed your mind about retiring, did it. Oh?
Speaker 6 (07:30):
I know that the ill health was non Hodgkins slim
f Homer in ninety ninety seven, and that's probably what upset
my sort of trend into.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
The Minister of angry.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Yeah, well, that sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
And then there was changes of leadership at the top,
and no one knew how brilliant I was. So and
now I had that bit of a fight on my
hands for about a year, and yeah, got that behind me,
so carried on. I one of the things people say, Ah,
are you're still going now? Actually, in my second life,
I was supposed to die when I was forty nine
(08:03):
arm and I'm just in my twenties again.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Now do you.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Do you mind me letting this fact out? You're seventy
seven on Friday. That makes you almost as old as
Winston he's still going.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Strong well, and Trump he's two years older as well.
Don't compare me to trop me just.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
A final one, because this is an award, an accolade
for sixty years of service to New Zealand egg. It
was the pinnacle award these days. I mean you're still
in there. You're the chair of n Z Pork. Not
bad for a broken down Southland sheep farmer.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Yeah, well you go back to say, you know, what
did I know about coconuts and coco Well, I mean
I got interested in pork because hang on, what place
of Monogastric Scott in the future of New Zealand farming.
Here's an opportunity to learn a new skill. And when
Damien O'Connor rang me out and said, hey, I've got
a job for you. Interesting call from the other side
of the house. Yep, I need someone that can sort
(08:54):
of bring this thing together and I need to learn
about this and we never stopped learning, either going forward
or going back.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And just a final comment, we need to stop importing
what is at sixty percent of yeah criminal, So when
you go in there to buy your bacon, it might
be a bit cheaper, but look for New Zealand made
minds you it might be come from overseas and have
a New Zealand. And that's a challenge.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
That's an ongoing argument.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
And I took the rigs to this Regulation Review Select
Committee and they're under review again.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
It's an ongoing challenge.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Hey Rrick Roy, congratulations. I was so proud of you
last night, an old mate winning the Outstanding Contribution Award
at the Primary Industry New Zealand Awards last night.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural
communities Rubbo Bank.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Michael every Rabobank Global strategist. We're based out of Dunedin
and I do joke that after chatting to you, I
want to climb to the seventh floor of the Westpac
building and jump because you always have me worrying about
the state of world, and I'm thinking, with what's happened
in the past week.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
What are you going to come up with?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yet, someone left your presentation this morning and I heard
the mutter on the way out after hearing you, maybe
Trump's not as nutty as people think he is.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon. Lovely to be with you in
person for the first time. I think doing this show,
at least, No, he's not as nutty as people think
he is. And I would add neither am I. And
in terms of the you know, jumping off the seventh floor,
I've often tried to make the point to you that
actually there's a really optimistic side to what I try
(10:36):
and get across.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You said when Trump was elected Trump two points zero
that this would change the face of how the world
does politics and it hairs well.
Speaker 7 (10:46):
I mean that was a no brainer, to be honest.
I mean, if you look at what he was saying
he was going to do when he came into power,
the only question is would he actually deliver, and he
absolutely has. I mean, in terms of economic policy, there's
been a huge change. Can see trade policy has been
shaken up. Every domestic policy in the US is being
shaken up and at the same time, primary focus right
(11:08):
now as we're talking is just in the past few
minutes we've seen more developments from the Middle East, which
again shake everything up.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, he's declared a total ceasefire. You tell me that
the Israelis are flat out bombing Tehran as we speak,
and vice versa.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Well, Tehran's not bombing Israel right now, but oh sorry,
Iran isn't bombing Tel Aviv and Hayfe right now. But
Israel is still bombing Tehran.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So when does the ceasefire come under play?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Well, he said a while ago, he said, in six hours.
They never announced them immediately, So both size traditionally in
the Middle East always try and bomb right up to
the last minute. So I would imagine you will get
more firing right until legally they're supposed to stop according
to this agreement, and then hopefully things can hold, at
which point what we were being told a few days ago,
(11:52):
which is this risks world War III. This is an
absolute calamity. Now, those risks were there, to be clear,
but they were only what we call tail risks. They
were never the central risk. Instead, touch Wood, what it
appears we have got is a defanged or defenestrated Iran
which doesn't have a nuclear weapon, which is a huge
positive for the region and for the world, and a
(12:14):
massive demonstration of the reassertion of both Israeli and US
power in conjunction, which could open the door to stability
and peace.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
So this has been a huge diplomatic victory, potentially for
Trump using bombs.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Yeah, that's how you sometimes get victory.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
America.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm just going to pick the eyes out of your
presentation this morning. You said America is essentially isolationist and
anti free trade, but certainly make America great again.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
It's America first.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
What I said was historically America is a realist rather
than an idealist, and isolationist rather than internationalist. It has
periods where it tries to become more global and more
pro free trade, but we're currently reverting back to type
which is a more controlled trade.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Now.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
I don't think America is anti trade, but they're not
interested in trade where they import and don't export, which
is what they've been doing for a very long time.
They want trade partners who when they sell to them,
will turn around and say, well, I've just sold this
much to you. I've got these dollars in my pocket
now I want to buy something from you. That's what
they want to see.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Well, the other point you've made, and this is coming
to pass. I guess America wants to reindustrialize and make
stuff again.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
They do, that's the plan. Let's join the dots here.
They've just potentially brought, you know, peace to the Middle
East of a sort, as you said, with bombs. The
bombs that they used to achieve that. Reports are they
used twelve of them. We don't know how many they have,
but intelligent estimates but maybe only around thirty or forty.
They don't have a lot of them. They now need
(13:55):
to make more. So the whole point is if you
want to have that Pax Americana of sorts, you need
to have the weapons, you know, to be used to
enforce it. And that's been America's problem. They haven't been
making enough of this stuff. They need to keep the
global system policed, if you will, so they want to
start reindustrializing a.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Lot of us.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Myself and Cloded of being dismissive of Trump's tariffs, I
think they're interventionalist and not good for world free trade.
We're a nation depending on world on the world and
some free trading. But you're saying tariffs are the way
of the future.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
We've almost gone.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Back to the future like it used to be.
Speaker 7 (14:33):
Well, tariffs were the way of the world forever up
until a few decades ago, where we decided that we
knew better than the totality of global economic history and
if we remove tariffs everything would work out.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
I mean, let me put a hypothetical to you. I mean,
New Zealand. Obviously you're a fantastic producer of food and
a food exporter. What if there was a new country
that suddenly appeared on the map that could produce everything
that you do at a third of the cost, because
you know, they were using indenture labor, so whatever trick
of the trade they were using, and they were flooding
your market and every market you export to, and suddenly
you couldn't sell food anywhere. I wonder how free trade
(15:09):
New Zealand would be in that situation. So it's always
a question of where you sit in the relationship that
tells you how you feel about it. You're quite rightly
in favor of it because of where you sit now,
but that's not always true for everybody.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Wanston Peter's there foreign a FeAs Minister said, we're in
the most the world was the most unstable it's been
since the Cuban missile crisis of October nineteen sixty two.
Would you concur with that?
Speaker 7 (15:33):
We came close to that in the past couple of days,
where some of the rumored headlines out there about what
Russia might or might not do could have been an
echo in the worst case scenario, and I flagged it
at work, but I said, look, it's unlikely, but you
have to put it out there as a scenario, is
that Russia could have done what it threatened twenty four
hours ago, which was to send a nuclear weapon to Iran.
(15:56):
Let's say, for example, they put it in a cargo
plane and they say, this plane is flowing to Tehran.
It's got a nuclear weapon in it. It's Russian. You
shoot it down. You're at war with us on a
nuclear level. But if it gets there, Iran's got a nuke.
What are you going to do? And it would have
forced a Cuban missile style crisis on America and Israel.
Thinking about it today, the former President Medvedev, who tweeted that, said,
(16:19):
basically only joking have no intention of doing anything like that,
so they completely blinked and walked it back.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Does Russian a but player and the power play between
China and the US. They are the superpowers. Russia's no
longer a superpower.
Speaker 7 (16:33):
No it's not. It's super spoiling things. It can't build
very much, which is what you need to be a superpower.
But they're a super spoiler in that they can disrupt
other people's systems and they will always be powerful because
of their geography, their commodities, and the number of nuclear
weapons that they've got. But that doesn't give you the
basis to build very much.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
One of the slides you put up this morning pertained
to New Zealand our history. You went back to eighteen forty,
the founding of our nation effectively, and you said, from
eighteen forty right through to nineteen forty one, the beginning
of the Second World War, we were a farm for
the UK and the British Empire. Are then post war,
(17:14):
until Britain entered the EU, we were a farm for
Mother England, for Britain. We became after that a farm
for Asia. You stopped at twenty twenty four. Who are
we a farm for now?
Speaker 7 (17:25):
Well, I put that question to Kiwis. But that is
the key question because there were two parts of that slide,
and you alluded to it. At the beginning, you were
a farm for the UK, with the UK protecting you.
Then you were a farm for the UK with the
Americans protecting you. Then you were a farm for Asia
with the Americans protecting you. Now the question is not
(17:46):
just who are you a farm for, it's who is
protecting you? And what I was trying to say is
you have to start with the second question to answer
the first. You can't say America is protecting us, but
we'll be a farm for China, for example, because that
may not be compatible with America protecting.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
You and the future. Can we afford to sit on
the fence. No, no, we can't. So Winston Peters is right.
We either choose the US or we choose China. And
choosing China would probably be disastrous for US from a
security point of.
Speaker 7 (18:15):
View, Yes it would. Ultimately that choice is likely to happen.
Nothing's written in stone. China itself could change. But if
it doesn't, yes, logically you get to that decision point.
But then if you choose China, that's disaster US for
you in terms of security. If you choose the US,
it's extremely damaging in terms of trade, so there are
trade offs that need to be made.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
The best of the Country with Rubbobak.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Grow with rubber Bag.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Welcome back to the Best of the Country. My name
is Jamie Mackay. The show's brought to you each and
every Saturday morning here on News Talk said be by Rabobank.
We're growing a better New Zealand together. You've heard from
Michael every Rabobanks, Singapore based global strategist, very much the
Star turn on day one of the Primary Industry Summit
(19:11):
in Christchurch earlier this week. Before the end of the hour,
we're going to hear from Todd McLay, Minister of Agriculture
and Trade and Shane Jones, the Prince of the Provinces.
Buckle in for that one, folks. But Rabobank also this
week released a new white paper looking at ownership and
succession in New Zealand farming, and some of the numbers,
(19:32):
quite frankly, were frightening. The new report reveals that over
the next decade, more than half of all New Zealand
farm and orchard owners, approximately seventeen thy three hundred and
twenty farmers and growers, will reach the age of sixty five.
At current land values. The transition of these farmers' operations represents,
(19:52):
on a conservative estimate, over one hundred and fifty billion
dollars in farming assets that will depend on a successful
succession process. Very tricky ground to maneuver that one. If
you'd like to read a copy of the paper, you
can find it on the rabobank website rabobank dot co
dot NZ.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Todd McClay up.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Next, the best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the
bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Rabobank.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Let's kick it off with the Minister of Agriculture and
Trade who was one of the keynotes speakers at the
PINS summit, Todd McClay. Good to have you on the show.
Todd couldn't catch up with you at the awards dinner
because you had to go back to Wellington because on
Tuesday evening the Farm to Forest Ban passed its first
(20:43):
reading unanimously and this was off the back of every
party in the House voting to support it. Did I
get my evening's right? Was it Tuesday or Wednesday evening?
Speaker 8 (20:53):
It was, Hey, Jamie, good evening. Yes, it was Tuesday evening.
You're writer and that's right. So the stepped towards stopping
wholesale farm the forest conversion, planting of plying trees on
our best foods producing land going to ets has happened.
Speaker 9 (21:09):
It started.
Speaker 8 (21:09):
We're going to get this in law by October this year.
But it's backdated to when the Prime Minister and I
made the announcement down in Central Otago or Southland on
the fourth of December last year. And it is very
very well put together. It's very very strict and as
I hear a few people around the place wondering if
somebody's gone out and bought trees thinking they can plant,
(21:32):
you know, after that date, they've got to be very careful.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
They're going to lose.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Okay, cod Well, why am I hearing anecdotally that there's
still a lot of blanket farm to forestry conversions happening.
People are raughting the rules.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
No well, so in essence, the announcement's made from the
fourth of December, that's when it will take effect. Any
planting you're seeing at the moment is a decision that
was made more than a year ago. So if you think, Jamie,
you went out the end the last year for that
and brought some land, it normally takes about a season
to two seasons before you're able to plant. So there's
still going to be some purchases or conversions that are
(22:07):
in the system going all the way through. We're put
in transitional means as to say, if somebody was in
the process before that date. You know, we're a center
right government. We're not taking value of them based upon
their decision at the time. But anybody out there that
thinks from the fourth of December onwards are smarter than
the law is going to lose some money because we
have put this together to achieve what we need to
(22:29):
stop wholesale conversion of our best food producing land and
going into trees.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
And when will this finally get into legislation. It's obviously
past its first reading this week.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
Yeah, so we're putting it through very quickly. I sent
it off to the Environment Committee and it will be
out for consultation and they've got seven weeks to work
through it and turn it around. We're given them the
ability to virtually work every hour of the day. Between
now and then, I do expect there'll be a lot
of submissions on both sides around the law. They'll get
it back to us and I think it's by the
(23:01):
thirteenth of August, and then we will put it through
the raining stages during the month of August, so we
can get some of the rules and the regulations in
place in September and it will take effect during October,
and so we move very very quickly. The point of
this is it's very well signaled. I campaigned on this policy,
it came through the Codition Agreement, and then we've taken
(23:22):
a lot of time to get the detail rights. So
there aren't any you know, any consequences that are not foreseen.
There is a lot of detail in there, but fundamentally
it is as simple as us. New Zealand makes money
exporting around the world, and we do so by producing
food and we're wholesale conversion the farms takes place, we
(23:42):
lose rural schools, we lose rural communities, we lose rural
families and rural businesses. There's a role for Farcy to play,
a very important one. In New Zealand, but not at
the expense or particularly sheep and beef land. And so
I'm pretty pleased, surprised, but very pleased that there was
unanimous support in Parliament for us. I think some of
the Opposition party sort of had pre qualifications and will
(24:03):
find ways to wriggle out. But I say to the
Labor Party, if you actually pack farmers, vote for this
bill and then get on board with some other stuff
I'm doing, because it's good for all of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I've got a text just arrived and Todd says the
s Todd a rampant forestry conversions still going on.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
On Hawk's Bay.
Speaker 8 (24:22):
Yeah, but largely that's nothing to do with something that
happened from the fourth of December onwards. And just as
you know, there'll be farmers that want to make changes
they decided last year. They get to continue to do that.
But anybody that has bought land but after the fourth
of December or found trees had them before and didn't
have the land after the fourth of December, it will
(24:43):
not be able to plant.
Speaker 9 (24:44):
Trees to enter the missions training schepe.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
But farmers will be able to make choices themselves they'll
be able to plant up the twenty five percent of
their own land if they want to. And on lack
six land, we're going to have a small quota to
allow some choice for farmers and other landowners, but the
wholesale conversions will stop because of all will say it's
not possible. But much of the planting you see this
season is based on decisions we're making a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, okay, And it's the blanket planting that irks people,
Like if a farmer wants to plant twenty five percent
of his farm and trees, good luck to them or hurt.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
So what you were seeing is people speculating on you know,
the carbon price of the future, and then it would
go up, not on whether you can get money out
us you know, how to meat or dairy. And my
biggest concern was the effect that was having upon communities
but also our exports. If you think about it right,
land prices don't go down in New Zealand. You can
see a situation where our best dairy land was purchased
and trees put on it because somebody thinks a carbon
(25:38):
price will be a lot more worth a lot more
than milk in the future, and that would just be
absolute madness. And so this is a big deal for
our national government to put restrictions like this on private
property rights.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
Except if you want.
Speaker 8 (25:51):
To plant trees all over your farm, you can do. So,
you just can't put into the emissions trading scheme, so
that carton price won't drive land uice decisions. What will
drive Landry's decisions is what's best for that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Man, all right, Just just to finish on it rigs
to me, this whole thing of the Emperor's New Clothes
Todd McLay and I worry, and I wonder it may
not be a problem for me twenty years down the track,
but for future generations we're just setting ourselves up to
fail with the carbon forestry we already have. And I'm
not talking about production forestry here. I'm talking about spray
(26:26):
and walk away because anecdotally, once again I'm hearing there's
lots of that.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Yeah, look, I agree, I'm not responsible for these years.
But as a forestry minister, I think it's mad. We
can plant trees and leave them forever and we don't
even get commercial value out of them by putting them
through a sawmill or sending them on a ship overseas,
so I'm not a big.
Speaker 9 (26:45):
Fan of that. However, there is a role for that
to play.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
In some situations with our farmers and others around the
country that want to plant matters and other sorts of
trees and leave them. We're doing quite a bit of
work to recognize those and make it easier. But but
I can't disagree with you, Jamie, that we're going to
part a pine tire somewhere and leave it forever of
the name of climate change because it's a bit more
convenient or easier for a government, and we don't even
create jobs for it. Is madness and that's.
Speaker 9 (27:10):
A really big part of why we're putting this don.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
On changing farms into forests in place over the next
two months.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Todd McLay, Minister of Agriculture and Trade, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You're welcome the best of the Country with Robobank, the
bank with local agri banking experts passionate about the future
of rural communities Rubbo Bank.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Good morning, New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. You're listening to
the best of the Country and some great songs from.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
We're going to wrap it with the Prince of the
Province's Martua, Shane Jones. As I said earlier, Bucklin for
that one. Rabobank Good Deeds promo finishes are closer play Monday,
so you've got to get your entry in. If you
want the five grand cash plus a day's labor from
the country and Rabobank teams, just go to the website
rabobank dot co dot nz. You'll find it there, or
(28:03):
text good to five double O nine and we'll send
you back the direct link to enter.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Shane Jones trap the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
How good, ay and welcome to the country. I'm Jamie McKay.
(28:47):
Straight into it. Today's songs from nineteen eighty five. I've
got a rugby reunion in Riversdale, forty years on from
great Times with some farmers down south. Our first guest
is of a similar genera to me, Shane Jones, Minister
of getting rid of Regional councils. Where were you by
the way in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 10 (29:08):
Nineteen eighty five, my third child, Torhir, was born. I
was helping dad. I'd recently come back from Australia grow
strawberries on a couple of paddocks, and we put in
a massive amount of watermelons and cash crops, because, as
you may recall, those were the early days of rogerenomics,
(29:28):
so things were pretty challenging.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, farming in those days was about to be described
nineteen eighty five the first year, first full year of
the Longey Douglas government, and farming was designated to be
a sunset industry.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
How wrong were they?
Speaker 11 (29:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:45):
While, as I recall, the vision was to create a
switzerland of money changes and money lenders in the South Pacific,
nothing could be further from the truth. Mother Nature's given
us a bounty here, and it's our job to use
it and completely ensure that our next generation better off
(30:05):
than you and I now.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I alway did Harvard University fit in amongst all of this?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
For you?
Speaker 10 (30:10):
Born in nineteen fifty nine with four children, set off
in early nineteen ninety via Hawaii. Washed up in Boston,
A couple of friends from Quebec came down Menace at
the airport found out where our flat was a place
called Brookline, not very far away from where the famous
political dynasty the Kennedys grew up. And therefore the guts
(30:34):
of eighteen months two years with my late wife and
our four kids. So it wasn't for the fainthearted, but
at the end of the studies spent three or four
months touring around America campgrounds of America.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Now you've been upsetting people on the South Island, namely
the Otago Regional Council because you want read are regional
councils anyhow, you've called them the Kremlin of the South Island.
Is this because they're not allowing you to baby dig
at the mccray's mine and land from Dunedin because of
an endangered moth.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
Okay, the Otago Regional Council is obviously the pollop Bureau.
It is peopled by antagonistic, angry, smelly, hippie greeny sort
of characters.
Speaker 11 (31:25):
Tell us how you really feel thirty thousand odd square
miles that they're responsible for. At most, this gold mining
extension would cover a couple of hundred hectsks at most,
and just divide that into the thirty thousand square kilometers,
and then you will understand why this council and their
(31:46):
reports designed to undermine and close down mining, destroy jobs,
get rid of economic wealth. They have no authority to
do it. And I dismiss all of their reports as
ideological graffiti. I know that they're stronger than me because
we're not checking them every day. So we're going to
disestablish the regional councils of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So what's the new format then? Do we just have
unitary authorities?
Speaker 10 (32:10):
Well, there's a great deal of sense. I mean today
there's a bad flood in and around Tasman Bay Nelson.
They don't have a regional council. I'm sure the people
up there are coping with the challenges. By the way,
if you want to know how to deal with floods
and changes in weather systems, then build stop banks. Who's
the guy who's found the two hundred million dollars to
(32:31):
build the stop banks?
Speaker 9 (32:32):
You're talking to him.
Speaker 10 (32:33):
That's why I don't believe and I never have and
all this moral hysteria to do with climate. And you
should be happy that I have announced that we have
pulled out of some oil anti oil alliance that just
Cinda signed us up to in twenty twenty one. I'm
sick of all these hippie health, after school care, just
cinder orientated initiatives. We've got to abandon them.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Ball Now you realize the Otago Regional Council and a
good old right if he made of mine is actually
I think the vice chair he mightn't like this, but
they're just building a big, flash new building here in indeed,
and I think it's worth something like fifty million bucks.
Speaker 11 (33:09):
Huge.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It's the size of an indoor stadium almost, and I
worry that they're going to fill up with bureaucrats.
Speaker 10 (33:16):
Well, the Prime Minister has endorsed what I've said. The
Prime Mister has said after the RMA changes there won't
be a need for regional Council. So I can't comment
on why Otago whites are willing to put that level
of capital into a new building. But know this from me.
We had a summit recently with an investment purpose to
(33:36):
attract international investors. What do we have in Otago? We
have a tiny, unelected, unknown group of people with their
deep hostility towards mining. They have elevated some sort of
naked moth found dead to a status that's more important
than mining, income, jobs, exports, and if anything, they've turned
(34:00):
the regional Council into a sitting duck.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Now I'm reading from the Otago Daily Time Shame, where
you've made the front page today. You're saying all this
for a dead moth. It's an ideological attempt to defeat mining.
It's truly unbelievable. This is a part of New Zealand
where no one goes. And you're talking about the McCrae's
mine inland from Otaga. I want to remind you go there, Shane.
Speaker 9 (34:24):
The mother listeners.
Speaker 10 (34:27):
There's thirty thousand odd kilometers that this council's in charge of.
So they've decided where the landscape has already compromised because
there's been a mine there. Mate, the judgment being exercised
by these zealots. They're allowed to get away with it
because the councilors are too weak. The councilors are either
(34:49):
compromised with their ideological proclivities or they're too weak to
haul in the scribblers that are ruining our economy.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
That's why the councilors have to go.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
And I'm taking a remit to our party conference in September.
I know the party will back this remit. We're going
to the next election. It's good to hear the Prime
Minister encourage my line of thinking. And all of you
people who are currently working for regional councils acting in
a manner it's very hostile and destructive economic development. You
(35:20):
either change your ways or change your job.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
How do you realize?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And I think he was a former New Zealand first MP,
Michael Laws as on the Otago Regional Council.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
Well, Michael Laws, without a sliver of doubt, will support
what I'm saying. But as I recall, Michael has always
locked in some sort of mortal moral debate with all
the Communists and the apparachniks from the Kremlin that populate
your council. I can't understand why the people of Otaga
(35:51):
allowing a tiny, unelected, unelectable group of Zealots write these
ideologically driven types of graffiti to stop jobs, stop mining,
stop economic development at a time where we've just introduced
fast just introduced only fast Trek, but foreign direct investment,
(36:13):
legislative improvements, and you've got a tiny group hidden like
a bed bug in the crease of an ideological sheet
they have to go.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Just to finish on you have you kind of New
Zealand's Donald Trump in some ways? I think is that
a compliment? I'm not sure, Shane. He said drill baby, drill,
You said dig baby, dig, So you kind of trumpish there.
Do you think he deserves a Nobel peace price? People
are talking about that?
Speaker 10 (36:43):
Ah, yes, yes, yes, Well I won't grace your show
with an F bomb. But I'll tell you what, there's
a great deal to be said for the way in
which he intervenes and breaks mindsets, and he breaks people's
established orthodoxes, the way they are set in their ways.
(37:04):
And that's what we're trying to do through New Zealand. First,
we're breaking the grievance mentality of Marridom's largest tribe than Napooli,
and God is my witness it's going to happen, probably
happen after the next election. We are going to get
rid of regional councils and look doc doc represent over
thirty three percent of the country's landscape. Of course, there
(37:26):
are cases why we should look after national parks, but
the cohed Only National Park has got a lot of
minerals under it. We may need to revisit that the
next election.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Deig baby deg Shane Jones, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
See ya the best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose
the bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Rabobank Shane Jones wrapping the best of the country looking
forward to his company. At the Big Tapooki Rugby Club
fundraiser on August tow already sold out. I'm Jamie McKay.
I'm done and dusted. I'm going to leave you with
tears for fairs. Started with shout this is everybody wants
to rule the world. Donald Trump and maybe Shane Jones.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
Read so sad.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That God.
Speaker 12 (39:52):
Say that some no never never, never die. Why w
they want a dam basketball rack fare body
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