February 9, 2025 • 10 mins
We find one of New Zealand's leading sheep breeders on a ski slope in Japan, where he talks about sheep without wool.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is a story we've been following with a lot
of interest recently on the country. Yes, the advent, the popularity.
If you want of the self shedding sheep, you know
the ones you don't have to share. Well, one man
who has always got an eye for the main chance
and has started breeding them, even though he is one
of the country's best known Romney breeders, Derek Daniel joins,
(00:21):
it's not from his wire or wrapper base, Derek, but
from Japan, where you're gallivanting around on some ski slopes.
There must be some money in those neody sheep.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, of course there is. Yeah, Well, and you save
a lot of money by farming the sheep, jobie. But
skin in Japan guaranteed snow and the cost of living,
the cost of skin, he is about a third to
half of what it is in New Zealand. Accommodation is
so cheap food the ski area passes. It's amazingly cheap.
(00:53):
Japan has not had the inflation we've had in New Zealand. Yeah,
they're expects and their sense of entitlement has been just
hammered down by thirty five years of depletion.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Is that a good or a bad thing? Though, well,
deflation's not a good thing for an economy.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, I don't know, I don't know. Inflation is not
a good thing, od Jamie. I mean the minimum wage
going up forty eight percent in seven years, and why
do we have a minimum wage anyway? Has resulted our
government at the moment is borrowing a million dollars an hour,
twenty four million a day to prop up an unsustainable economy.
(01:36):
They talk about sustainability in the environment, blah blah blah,
but they have not We have not got a sustainable
economy in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We might come back to the economy if we get time.
Let's talk about these sheep because of the ram that
was sold, and it took us all by surprise, even
the vendor, I think twenty four and a half thousand dollars.
And it was a Wiltshire Exla, a cross ram born
and bred in Southam, where all the good sheep come from. Derek,
(02:05):
How does how does that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Breed they come from? The wire app All right, all right,
the south.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
How does that breed differ from your nudies?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The excellana is a breed very similar to what we
call the nudy that we've brought in ya embryo and
seamen into New Zealand. The Woolshire, of course, is the
shedding sheep that we have here in New Zealand. But
the woolchhire in New Zealand came from such a small
(02:35):
base four years in one ramp important in the nineteen
seventies bred up from there, and because it's been such
a small genetic base, breed us a bread back to
Coopworth's another New Zealand breeds to get a bit of
genetic diversity, but then they put wall back on it.
The advantage of the nerdies that we've got is that
(02:56):
they don't grow wool, and in our second cross three
quarters we call them Brazilians. Seventy eight percent of the
uhoggits did not require sharing, and so you get there
very quickly. You get to a point where you don't
have to bother about wool on your sheep. So I
(03:16):
think that's the advantage over that our nudies have over
the current wool shires in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So you've got a foot on both camps effectively, because
you're still actively breeding wool or duel purpose sheep at yrary.
But are you just meeting farm and demand here effectively.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Of course, Yeah, that's right. Look it's through the enthusiasm
of Peter Sabin, who's been with Wirary on and off
for about twenty years, more than twenty years, twenty two years.
And he was over in the UK and he was
looking around at all these sheep or the breeders that
had these sheep, and he said to me, Derek, that
(03:58):
really is a possibility here. I can see, he said
to me, I can see farmers in New Zualm going
one of two ways, going to the nudy type of
sheet or staying with wool now at Werrary a big
seller of the war Ary romney. And I still have
faith in wool Jamie that Wolve's going to make it
(04:22):
come back. In fact, I sold war on contract with
five dollars a kilo cleans through Wolves in New Zealand
and just how the day may I put a bug
in for John Matfurda, the CEO of Wolves and Usery
do an amazing job. And I'm also put a lot
of faith in the new use as the wall, which
is the deconstruction and particles of powder pigments, and that's
(04:46):
coming along term and there will be a factory putting
out some of that October November this year, they'll have
to be operating. Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You talked about deflation and the Japanese economy over the
past thirty years. Well, that's exactly what we've had in
the strong wool industry. I mean, we're crowing about five
dollars a kilogram clean, Derek, but I got that in
the nineteen eighties as a young farmer. Effectively wool needs
to be ten bucks to make any impact.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I totally agree with you. In fact, you know ten
dollars plus. I would say that back in the nineteen
seventies wool was effectively twenty dollars a kilo in today's money,
and inflation has been massive. People don't realize, like a house,
average house in New Zealand in ninety seventy was eighty
(05:37):
six hundred. Now it's one hundred times high, one hundred
times high. I mean, it's just it just disrupts everything
we do and we're suffering from it in New Zealand
at the moment. So coming back to wool, yeah, it's
going to take technology to transform it into a different form.
So we're not comparing with synthetic fibers, and then I
think we have a viable industry and something that can
(06:00):
convert hill country farming of sheep into a more viable
and profitable option.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Again, of course, Derek, that is if that hill country
is not all planted and pine trees.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Ah, look it just rampant. I'm surrounded by pine trees now,
so I've got about a kilometer of grass boundary, and
then there's regen bush and so on, and yeah, honestly,
it's just going along so quickly, and the government, of
course don't want to admit just how much land has
gone into pine trees or how much more it's going
(06:35):
to be planted next year, and how much has been
planted on existing farms. They talk about two hundred and
seventy thousand hectares of new plant of farms that have
been converted, But what about all the planting that is
actually happening on existing farms. And my guess is that
land use wise, forestry and news and it has gone
(06:56):
from about seven percent of our land area and it
might be getting up to nine percent. Now is the.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Future of these walls or shedding sheep along the nudy
side of the breeding equation where they don't grow wall
to start with, because it is a bit unsightly. I
might be being a bit fussy here, but I've seen
paddocks where self shedding sheep have run around and they're
rather unbecoming.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Derek, Oh, yeah, that's right. But jomie horses, cattle, deer
or grow a winter coat and they shed it and
you don't really see it. Now. These nudy sheep gorow
so little winter coat or a birthcoat when they're born
as lambs that you don't see it, or you might
(07:43):
see it slightly because it's white against the grass, unlike
dark here from other animals. But yeah, it's not the
unsightly type of animal that you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So we know that some of these self shedding sheep,
you know, for example the Wiltshire, they're great men breeds
as well. I assume the same applies to the nudy.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, of course, we've done trials with half driss, actually
taken them through the slaughter. We did about five hundred
last year and compare them to one hundred and fifty romneys,
and they were ahead on every count in terms of
growth rate, in terms of yield, and yeah, the growth
(08:25):
rate post wining was terrific and really gave us confidence
that we're onto a winner here. Now, admittedly that's the
first crist and you do get hybrid vigor, but hybrid
viga is one of the few things you get for free,
so why not have it?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, regardless of the price of wool, you've got the
management side of sheep that grow, wool sharing, crutching, dagging, dipping,
fly strike, you name it. Could it be that these
self shedding or nude sheep will effectively outmoad a wall
sheep simply for the reason that they're just much easier
to manage and lower cost.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We saw us a lot of our genetics from a
guy named Hayden Bullet, which is a strange name for
someone who has nudy sheep. But he had half nudies
and half Romney's d endless. Romney had about six thousand
sheep altogether on lease land, and he says the nudy
sheep created eighty percent less work and his way of
(09:28):
building equity. He had eighteen houses through villages in rural
England the last time I speak to him, because orders
some craziness on land. Least, that's the way things work.
Over there, but it gave them time to look after
his property, his houses, and so he's gradually moved out
(09:48):
of Romney's and gone or Nudy.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, you are a rapper farmer's behave yourself. I know
there's a few of you over there, and I'd love
to say break a leg, but it's probably not a
good thing to say to us. Scare here, Hi, Derek Daniel, Well,
thanks for something your time.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Thanks showing me the blue
It is a story we've been following with a lot
of interest recently on the country. Yes, the advent, the popularity.
If you want of the self shedding sheep, you know
the ones you don't have to share. Well, one man
who has always got an eye for the main chance
and has started breeding them, even though he is one
of the country's best known Romney breeders, Derek Daniel joins,
(00:21):
it's not from his wire or wrapper base, Derek, but
from Japan, where you're gallivanting around on some ski slopes.
There must be some money in those neody sheep.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, of course there is. Yeah, Well, and you save
a lot of money by farming the sheep, jobie. But
skin in Japan guaranteed snow and the cost of living,
the cost of skin, he is about a third to
half of what it is in New Zealand. Accommodation is
so cheap food the ski area passes. It's amazingly cheap.
(00:53):
Japan has not had the inflation we've had in New Zealand. Yeah,
they're expects and their sense of entitlement has been just
hammered down by thirty five years of depletion.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Is that a good or a bad thing? Though, well,
deflation's not a good thing for an economy.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, I don't know, I don't know. Inflation is not
a good thing, od Jamie. I mean the minimum wage
going up forty eight percent in seven years, and why
do we have a minimum wage anyway? Has resulted our
government at the moment is borrowing a million dollars an hour,
twenty four million a day to prop up an unsustainable economy.
(01:36):
They talk about sustainability in the environment, blah blah blah,
but they have not We have not got a sustainable
economy in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We might come back to the economy if we get time.
Let's talk about these sheep because of the ram that
was sold, and it took us all by surprise, even
the vendor, I think twenty four and a half thousand dollars.
And it was a Wiltshire Exla, a cross ram born
and bred in Southam, where all the good sheep come from. Derek,
(02:05):
How does how does that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Breed they come from? The wire app All right, all right,
the south.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
How does that breed differ from your nudies?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The excellana is a breed very similar to what we
call the nudy that we've brought in ya embryo and
seamen into New Zealand. The Woolshire, of course, is the
shedding sheep that we have here in New Zealand. But
the woolchhire in New Zealand came from such a small
(02:35):
base four years in one ramp important in the nineteen
seventies bred up from there, and because it's been such
a small genetic base, breed us a bread back to
Coopworth's another New Zealand breeds to get a bit of
genetic diversity, but then they put wall back on it.
The advantage of the nerdies that we've got is that
(02:56):
they don't grow wool, and in our second cross three
quarters we call them Brazilians. Seventy eight percent of the
uhoggits did not require sharing, and so you get there
very quickly. You get to a point where you don't
have to bother about wool on your sheep. So I
(03:16):
think that's the advantage over that our nudies have over
the current wool shires in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So you've got a foot on both camps effectively, because
you're still actively breeding wool or duel purpose sheep at yrary.
But are you just meeting farm and demand here effectively.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Of course, Yeah, that's right. Look it's through the enthusiasm
of Peter Sabin, who's been with Wirary on and off
for about twenty years, more than twenty years, twenty two years.
And he was over in the UK and he was
looking around at all these sheep or the breeders that
had these sheep, and he said to me, Derek, that
(03:58):
really is a possibility here. I can see, he said
to me, I can see farmers in New Zualm going
one of two ways, going to the nudy type of
sheet or staying with wool now at Werrary a big
seller of the war Ary romney. And I still have
faith in wool Jamie that Wolve's going to make it
(04:22):
come back. In fact, I sold war on contract with
five dollars a kilo cleans through Wolves in New Zealand
and just how the day may I put a bug
in for John Matfurda, the CEO of Wolves and Usery
do an amazing job. And I'm also put a lot
of faith in the new use as the wall, which
is the deconstruction and particles of powder pigments, and that's
(04:46):
coming along term and there will be a factory putting
out some of that October November this year, they'll have
to be operating. Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You talked about deflation and the Japanese economy over the
past thirty years. Well, that's exactly what we've had in
the strong wool industry. I mean, we're crowing about five
dollars a kilogram clean, Derek, but I got that in
the nineteen eighties as a young farmer. Effectively wool needs
to be ten bucks to make any impact.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I totally agree with you. In fact, you know ten
dollars plus. I would say that back in the nineteen
seventies wool was effectively twenty dollars a kilo in today's money,
and inflation has been massive. People don't realize, like a house,
average house in New Zealand in ninety seventy was eighty
(05:37):
six hundred. Now it's one hundred times high, one hundred
times high. I mean, it's just it just disrupts everything
we do and we're suffering from it in New Zealand
at the moment. So coming back to wool, yeah, it's
going to take technology to transform it into a different form.
So we're not comparing with synthetic fibers, and then I
think we have a viable industry and something that can
(06:00):
convert hill country farming of sheep into a more viable
and profitable option.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Again, of course, Derek, that is if that hill country
is not all planted and pine trees.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Ah, look it just rampant. I'm surrounded by pine trees now,
so I've got about a kilometer of grass boundary, and
then there's regen bush and so on, and yeah, honestly,
it's just going along so quickly, and the government, of
course don't want to admit just how much land has
gone into pine trees or how much more it's going
(06:35):
to be planted next year, and how much has been
planted on existing farms. They talk about two hundred and
seventy thousand hectares of new plant of farms that have
been converted, But what about all the planting that is
actually happening on existing farms. And my guess is that
land use wise, forestry and news and it has gone
(06:56):
from about seven percent of our land area and it
might be getting up to nine percent. Now is the.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Future of these walls or shedding sheep along the nudy
side of the breeding equation where they don't grow wall
to start with, because it is a bit unsightly. I
might be being a bit fussy here, but I've seen
paddocks where self shedding sheep have run around and they're
rather unbecoming.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Derek, Oh, yeah, that's right. But jomie horses, cattle, deer
or grow a winter coat and they shed it and
you don't really see it. Now. These nudy sheep gorow
so little winter coat or a birthcoat when they're born
as lambs that you don't see it, or you might
(07:43):
see it slightly because it's white against the grass, unlike
dark here from other animals. But yeah, it's not the
unsightly type of animal that you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So we know that some of these self shedding sheep,
you know, for example the Wiltshire, they're great men breeds
as well. I assume the same applies to the nudy.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, of course, we've done trials with half driss, actually
taken them through the slaughter. We did about five hundred
last year and compare them to one hundred and fifty romneys,
and they were ahead on every count in terms of
growth rate, in terms of yield, and yeah, the growth
(08:25):
rate post wining was terrific and really gave us confidence
that we're onto a winner here. Now, admittedly that's the
first crist and you do get hybrid vigor, but hybrid
viga is one of the few things you get for free,
so why not have it?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, regardless of the price of wool, you've got the
management side of sheep that grow, wool sharing, crutching, dagging, dipping,
fly strike, you name it. Could it be that these
self shedding or nude sheep will effectively outmoad a wall
sheep simply for the reason that they're just much easier
to manage and lower cost.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We saw us a lot of our genetics from a
guy named Hayden Bullet, which is a strange name for
someone who has nudy sheep. But he had half nudies
and half Romney's d endless. Romney had about six thousand
sheep altogether on lease land, and he says the nudy
sheep created eighty percent less work and his way of
(09:28):
building equity. He had eighteen houses through villages in rural
England the last time I speak to him, because orders
some craziness on land. Least, that's the way things work.
Over there, but it gave them time to look after
his property, his houses, and so he's gradually moved out
(09:48):
of Romney's and gone or Nudy.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, you are a rapper farmer's behave yourself. I know
there's a few of you over there, and I'd love
to say break a leg, but it's probably not a
good thing to say to us. Scare here, Hi, Derek Daniel, Well,
thanks for something your time.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Thanks showing me the blue
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