January 27, 2025 • 13 mins
Facial Eczema is becoming more widespread in New Zealand, costing NZ’s economy $332 million annually. In part three of our series, The Country’s Rowena Duncum is joined by Dr Cara Brosnahan to look at the innovative "sheep poo study", how farmers are contributing, and what tools are being developed to tackle this disease.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Eliminating Facial XMAS Impacts with Beef and Lamb, New Zealand,
powered by the Country. Well, hello and welcome into the
special edition podcast in association with Beef and Lamb New Zealand.
My name is Rowena Duncan from the Country. It is
my pleasure to be with you once again, we are
looking at facial XMA. Joining me on episode one was
(00:20):
doctor Susie Keeling giving us an overview of the EFEI
program Eliminating Facial ExM Impacts program. Episode two was with
Becky Diamond just last week, taking a deeper look into
some of the economic implications and social implications of facial
x MAT and what the program aims to achieve. But
joining me today is doctor Kara Brosenhan, principal scientist for
(00:43):
Animal health research at Beef and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome in, Kara, Thanks, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Now tell me a bit about yourself, Kara, what brought
you to being here as principal scientist at Beef and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I guess I've always been fascinated by animal health in
general and looking into that microscopic world of victoria, fungi,
viruses and parasites, all those fun things that affect them
and looking at the disease process. So my first real
science job while I was at university was looking at
a disease of oysters where we had to find a
(01:18):
parasite by looking at the imprints from heart tissue. And
I guess ever since then I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, the world fantastic. And were you a product of
Lincoln or Massy? I know there's a bit of a
rivalry there.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah. So I actually did my undergrad at VIC and
then did my PhD at Massy, and I did it.
Did spend a bit of time at Lincoln as well.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, I heard so many stories of people have been
through Lincoln and I feel like I missed out a
week bit there by going to Massy instead, But I
won't say that one too load. Hey, look, we've been
chatting about the EFEI program, so obviously Beef and Lamb
New Zealand are leading this. It's basically around twenty point
seven five million dollars around a seven year elimination program.
(02:04):
The goals to develop tools with farmers to manage and
eliminate facial impacts. It's funded by Beef and Lamb and
also MPI Sustainable Food and Fiber Futures Fund with contributions
from farmers and industry experts. We've heard that there is
such a wide base of stakeholders. There's a lot of
buy and for people around the country. So I'm really
(02:26):
looking forward to getting your thoughts on at Kara. And
I understand that one of the key components of the
program is the epidemiology study, which is otherwise known as
the Sheep Poost Study. And I've heard a bit about
this and it always fascinates me.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, that's right. So yeah, the epidemiological study, I mean,
extemology is just a fancy word for the study of
ho's getting second wife. So yeah, we're looking at the
who of sheep to try and understand this better. And
obviously a lot of fun are contributing to the study,
(03:02):
which is just fantastic for us to be able to
learn from the farmers themselves, but also to give farmers
themselves something tangible that they can actually contribute to the
program with from the start.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, I just must say. You know, in all
my years are either broadcasting or farming, I never thought
I'd be telling farmers to go out and check the
pop and the paddocks, but that plays a big part
of it. You must be delighted that farmers are actually
getting involved in it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, we're really stoked. So it's a three year study
which started last face Xmas season. So we're in our
second year now, and we had about two hundred farmers
in that first year, and then the second year we're
up to two hundred and eighty farmers and a lot
of those farmers from year one have continued into year two.
(03:51):
So we're just so happy and grateful that, Yeah, there's
so much interest in it and that so many farmers
stuck around for year two. So let's hope for ye
three we get as many or more.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, fantastic. So why are you doing this study? Where
did the idea kind of come from?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, so there's a few reasons or a few things
we're going to get out of the study. One is
to understand where those spores that cause facial exma are
found in New Zealand. So facial xma, as I'm sure
in the overview this was covered, but it's caused by
a fungus that produces a toxin, and that fungus creates spores,
(04:31):
which is what we're looking for. In the post so
we're wanting to find out throughout the country where those
spores are. We're also wanting to look at what actually
defined a facial XMA case. So if you see an
animal with certain signs of disease, how can you tell
that's facial xma as opposed to another disease that may
present similarly. We also want to understand what those different
(04:55):
drivers are for the disease to develop. And we'll also
use this data to build a predictive risk model so
that farmers can actually understand what their potential risk is
before it happens and they can implement their management tools.
So we're trying to get as much information as we
can out of this study.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Are there any particular months that you're focusing on.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, So the study runs from October to May for
the three years, and traditionally spot counts for facial ets
and I don't really start until January, but we really
wanted to go earlier than that to understand what's happening
before you know, traditional sportcounts start. And is there anything
we're missing at those early stages that could be used
(05:42):
to as an indicator I guess for disease?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, And what are the kinds of things that you're
trying to find out with the study.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so one is understanding where that fungus is in
New Zealand. So many people know that it's traditionally a
North Island disease, More and more it's occurring in the
top of the south Land. And you know, because it
is a fungus and very much, yes, dominated by what
(06:12):
the environmental conditions are whether it can grow or not.
With climate change, in a warming environment, it is likely
to be able to grow in different areas that we're
not previously expected. So that's going further south down the country,
but also increasing in those altitude altitudes that traditionally you
wouldn't expect it in. So we're really using that poo
(06:34):
to understand where it is. And Yeah, as I say,
for the amount of information we're collecting, we can help
build a predictive model, and we've got great researchers helping
us to analyze all the data from the study and
help build those models. So we're really excited about that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, what have you learned so far?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So in year one one of the I guess most
I don't know if it's exciting, But wherever we looked
for spores. Essentially we found them, so even in Southland
spores were coming up. We still need to investigate further
what that actually means for farmers in Southland because it
(07:19):
could be a spore that is very similar and doesn't
produce a toxin. We just don't know that information yet.
So again, this study will help us. We'll keep all
these samples so that when we develop better tools to
understand that we can go back and retest them so
that we have really good understanding and can let farmers
know on the ground what this means for them.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
What to farmers get out of being a part of
this study.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yes, so yes. One of the main things is they
get free facial excenesspore counts. So if you know if
farmers are in an area where they know facial exmo exists,
that can help identify certain areas of the farm where
spores come up year on year and if there are
in areas that traditionally are not social exit areas. It's
(08:06):
also kind of good to know that there isn't any
sports coming up, so even if you get a negative result,
it's still really important information. There's also the opportunity to
connect with other farmers who are part of the program.
So we have a WhatsApp group which is great to
share photos of collecting poof because who doesn't want to
(08:26):
do that and other stories, And we try to provide
the participants of the study with webinars to update them
on how the analysis is going, how the testing is going,
so just to provide them more information as well, because
we realize it is a huge time commitment for the
farmers in the study and we really do appreciate it,
(08:49):
so we're trying to give them as much information as possible.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Just talk me through the process. How does it actually
work in terms of collecting the sample? Does it go
to from there?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, So we are asking farmers to collect every fortnite,
So every fortnight they'll select one mob of sheet throughout
the October to May period and every fortnight they'll push
them into a corner of a paddock or if they're
yarding them, they'll collect ten individual fresh poo samples of
(09:22):
the ground so they don't need to get them directly
from the animal and then pop them into poddles which
we supply, and also add some extra information so what
their pasture type and height is like at the time,
the GPUs location, all that other data that we need
for the analysis, and then they pop them into a
(09:44):
return courier bag, which we also supply, and then they
go to Anois Veterinary which used to be called Gribbles
to test for the spot counts and so Gribbles then
test the samples and we get their results back and
then we send the results back to the farmer as
soon as we've checked them and entered the data into
(10:05):
our database.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Fantastic, And how are you going to use this information?
You talk about trying to use predictive models, but what
does that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, so in an idea world, if we get something
that we're pretty happy with, we would have something on
for example, the Beef and Land website where farmers would
enter in their information, so their location, what stock there,
running information like that, and then they'll get a result
back of their risk for the next fortnite. In terms
(10:36):
of facial xmith, so it really is about being more
accurate worth determining the risk because, as I'm sure you're aware,
there is no cure for facial xmith, so you really
have to be onto a preventative measure before it happens,
because once that toxin is ingested, then yeah, you can't
(10:56):
really do anything to recover the liver men.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned, Kara, that you know
there is the potential for facial exma to be found
in parts of the country where it hasn't been found before.
I farmed in Taranaki when we were at risk there,
but when I went down south and they were like,
oh no, it's not really as much of an issue
down here. But as we know global warming, climate change,
(11:24):
things are being found in different parts of the country.
That aspect of it is really fascinating for me.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's really about being proactive because you know,
as you say, a lot of farmers in the North
Island they know what to do about taking those learnings
as well for those people who haven't dealt with it,
so that you know, if they are faced with it,
they know what to do and they're not surprised. And yes,
I mean it's just such a harsh disease, as you'll know,
(11:53):
so you want to make sure that we have the
least impact for new people as possible.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, absolutely, Kara. Where do people go to find more
information about this?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yes, So if you jump on the beef and Lamb website.
You can type in facial exma or sheep poof study
and it should come up with a page. So for
year two if people wanted to join, we have closed
the registrations for this year, but you can sign up
for year three. So if it's something that you think
(12:25):
you'd want to help with, we would be very happy
to have you on board and you can sign up there.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. Doctor Kara Brosnan, Principal scientist for Animal health
research at Beef and Lamb and z thank you so
much for your time today and looking through the Sheep
Poose study, the epidemiological study today. I've really enjoyed our chat.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Thanks a lot for your time, No worries and.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Look, Kara is going to be back with me in
another week's time as we look further into this facial
x math study, We're going to look at management of
facial exma, what that looks like and why we need
more tools to tackle it. That's up and awake. Where
will catch you back then? Eliminating facial Exzma's impacts with
Beef and Lamb New Zealand powered by the Country
Eliminating Facial XMAS Impacts with Beef and Lamb, New Zealand,
powered by the Country. Well, hello and welcome into the
special edition podcast in association with Beef and Lamb New Zealand.
My name is Rowena Duncan from the Country. It is
my pleasure to be with you once again, we are
looking at facial XMA. Joining me on episode one was
(00:20):
doctor Susie Keeling giving us an overview of the EFEI
program Eliminating Facial ExM Impacts program. Episode two was with
Becky Diamond just last week, taking a deeper look into
some of the economic implications and social implications of facial
x MAT and what the program aims to achieve. But
joining me today is doctor Kara Brosenhan, principal scientist for
(00:43):
Animal health research at Beef and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome in, Kara, Thanks, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Now tell me a bit about yourself, Kara, what brought
you to being here as principal scientist at Beef and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I guess I've always been fascinated by animal health in
general and looking into that microscopic world of victoria, fungi,
viruses and parasites, all those fun things that affect them
and looking at the disease process. So my first real
science job while I was at university was looking at
a disease of oysters where we had to find a
(01:18):
parasite by looking at the imprints from heart tissue. And
I guess ever since then I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, the world fantastic. And were you a product of
Lincoln or Massy? I know there's a bit of a
rivalry there.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah. So I actually did my undergrad at VIC and
then did my PhD at Massy, and I did it.
Did spend a bit of time at Lincoln as well.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, I heard so many stories of people have been
through Lincoln and I feel like I missed out a
week bit there by going to Massy instead, But I
won't say that one too load. Hey, look, we've been
chatting about the EFEI program, so obviously Beef and Lamb
New Zealand are leading this. It's basically around twenty point
seven five million dollars around a seven year elimination program.
(02:04):
The goals to develop tools with farmers to manage and
eliminate facial impacts. It's funded by Beef and Lamb and
also MPI Sustainable Food and Fiber Futures Fund with contributions
from farmers and industry experts. We've heard that there is
such a wide base of stakeholders. There's a lot of
buy and for people around the country. So I'm really
(02:26):
looking forward to getting your thoughts on at Kara. And
I understand that one of the key components of the
program is the epidemiology study, which is otherwise known as
the Sheep Poost Study. And I've heard a bit about
this and it always fascinates me.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, that's right. So yeah, the epidemiological study, I mean,
extemology is just a fancy word for the study of
ho's getting second wife. So yeah, we're looking at the
who of sheep to try and understand this better. And
obviously a lot of fun are contributing to the study,
(03:02):
which is just fantastic for us to be able to
learn from the farmers themselves, but also to give farmers
themselves something tangible that they can actually contribute to the
program with from the start.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, I just must say. You know, in all
my years are either broadcasting or farming, I never thought
I'd be telling farmers to go out and check the
pop and the paddocks, but that plays a big part
of it. You must be delighted that farmers are actually
getting involved in it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, we're really stoked. So it's a three year study
which started last face Xmas season. So we're in our
second year now, and we had about two hundred farmers
in that first year, and then the second year we're
up to two hundred and eighty farmers and a lot
of those farmers from year one have continued into year two.
(03:51):
So we're just so happy and grateful that, Yeah, there's
so much interest in it and that so many farmers
stuck around for year two. So let's hope for ye
three we get as many or more.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, fantastic. So why are you doing this study? Where
did the idea kind of come from?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, so there's a few reasons or a few things
we're going to get out of the study. One is
to understand where those spores that cause facial exma are
found in New Zealand. So facial xma, as I'm sure
in the overview this was covered, but it's caused by
a fungus that produces a toxin, and that fungus creates spores,
(04:31):
which is what we're looking for. In the post so
we're wanting to find out throughout the country where those
spores are. We're also wanting to look at what actually
defined a facial XMA case. So if you see an
animal with certain signs of disease, how can you tell
that's facial xma as opposed to another disease that may
present similarly. We also want to understand what those different
(04:55):
drivers are for the disease to develop. And we'll also
use this data to build a predictive risk model so
that farmers can actually understand what their potential risk is
before it happens and they can implement their management tools.
So we're trying to get as much information as we
can out of this study.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Are there any particular months that you're focusing on.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, So the study runs from October to May for
the three years, and traditionally spot counts for facial ets
and I don't really start until January, but we really
wanted to go earlier than that to understand what's happening
before you know, traditional sportcounts start. And is there anything
we're missing at those early stages that could be used
(05:42):
to as an indicator I guess for disease?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, And what are the kinds of things that you're
trying to find out with the study.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so one is understanding where that fungus is in
New Zealand. So many people know that it's traditionally a
North Island disease, More and more it's occurring in the
top of the south Land. And you know, because it
is a fungus and very much, yes, dominated by what
(06:12):
the environmental conditions are whether it can grow or not.
With climate change, in a warming environment, it is likely
to be able to grow in different areas that we're
not previously expected. So that's going further south down the country,
but also increasing in those altitude altitudes that traditionally you
wouldn't expect it in. So we're really using that poo
(06:34):
to understand where it is. And Yeah, as I say,
for the amount of information we're collecting, we can help
build a predictive model, and we've got great researchers helping
us to analyze all the data from the study and
help build those models. So we're really excited about that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, what have you learned so far?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So in year one one of the I guess most
I don't know if it's exciting, But wherever we looked
for spores. Essentially we found them, so even in Southland
spores were coming up. We still need to investigate further
what that actually means for farmers in Southland because it
(07:19):
could be a spore that is very similar and doesn't
produce a toxin. We just don't know that information yet.
So again, this study will help us. We'll keep all
these samples so that when we develop better tools to
understand that we can go back and retest them so
that we have really good understanding and can let farmers
know on the ground what this means for them.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
What to farmers get out of being a part of
this study.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yes, so yes. One of the main things is they
get free facial excenesspore counts. So if you know if
farmers are in an area where they know facial exmo exists,
that can help identify certain areas of the farm where
spores come up year on year and if there are
in areas that traditionally are not social exit areas. It's
(08:06):
also kind of good to know that there isn't any
sports coming up, so even if you get a negative result,
it's still really important information. There's also the opportunity to
connect with other farmers who are part of the program.
So we have a WhatsApp group which is great to
share photos of collecting poof because who doesn't want to
(08:26):
do that and other stories, And we try to provide
the participants of the study with webinars to update them
on how the analysis is going, how the testing is going,
so just to provide them more information as well, because
we realize it is a huge time commitment for the
farmers in the study and we really do appreciate it,
(08:49):
so we're trying to give them as much information as possible.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Just talk me through the process. How does it actually
work in terms of collecting the sample? Does it go
to from there?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, So we are asking farmers to collect every fortnite,
So every fortnight they'll select one mob of sheet throughout
the October to May period and every fortnight they'll push
them into a corner of a paddock or if they're
yarding them, they'll collect ten individual fresh poo samples of
(09:22):
the ground so they don't need to get them directly
from the animal and then pop them into poddles which
we supply, and also add some extra information so what
their pasture type and height is like at the time,
the GPUs location, all that other data that we need
for the analysis, and then they pop them into a
(09:44):
return courier bag, which we also supply, and then they
go to Anois Veterinary which used to be called Gribbles
to test for the spot counts and so Gribbles then
test the samples and we get their results back and
then we send the results back to the farmer as
soon as we've checked them and entered the data into
(10:05):
our database.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Fantastic, And how are you going to use this information?
You talk about trying to use predictive models, but what
does that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, so in an idea world, if we get something
that we're pretty happy with, we would have something on
for example, the Beef and Land website where farmers would
enter in their information, so their location, what stock there,
running information like that, and then they'll get a result
back of their risk for the next fortnite. In terms
(10:36):
of facial xmith, so it really is about being more
accurate worth determining the risk because, as I'm sure you're aware,
there is no cure for facial xmith, so you really
have to be onto a preventative measure before it happens,
because once that toxin is ingested, then yeah, you can't
(10:56):
really do anything to recover the liver men.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned, Kara, that you know
there is the potential for facial exma to be found
in parts of the country where it hasn't been found before.
I farmed in Taranaki when we were at risk there,
but when I went down south and they were like,
oh no, it's not really as much of an issue
down here. But as we know global warming, climate change,
(11:24):
things are being found in different parts of the country.
That aspect of it is really fascinating for me.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's really about being proactive because you know,
as you say, a lot of farmers in the North
Island they know what to do about taking those learnings
as well for those people who haven't dealt with it,
so that you know, if they are faced with it,
they know what to do and they're not surprised. And yes,
I mean it's just such a harsh disease, as you'll know,
(11:53):
so you want to make sure that we have the
least impact for new people as possible.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, absolutely, Kara. Where do people go to find more
information about this?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yes, So if you jump on the beef and Lamb website.
You can type in facial exma or sheep poof study
and it should come up with a page. So for
year two if people wanted to join, we have closed
the registrations for this year, but you can sign up
for year three. So if it's something that you think
(12:25):
you'd want to help with, we would be very happy
to have you on board and you can sign up there.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. Doctor Kara Brosnan, Principal scientist for Animal health
research at Beef and Lamb and z thank you so
much for your time today and looking through the Sheep
Poose study, the epidemiological study today. I've really enjoyed our chat.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Thanks a lot for your time, No worries and.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Look, Kara is going to be back with me in
another week's time as we look further into this facial
x math study, We're going to look at management of
facial exma, what that looks like and why we need
more tools to tackle it. That's up and awake. Where
will catch you back then? Eliminating facial Exzma's impacts with
Beef and Lamb New Zealand powered by the Country
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