February 19, 2025 • 18 mins
It’s well known that New Zealand has a huge problem with keeping our children safe, fed, and housed.
Reports over the years show how low New Zealand ranks for child wellbeing outcomes compared to other developed countries.
Government stats show 23.5% of children born in 1998 had been the subject of a report of concern to Oranga Tamariki by the age of 17. That’s more than one in five kids.
One Police study into 63 young people involved in ram-raids in 2022, showed 95% of them were linked to at least one family harm event, before first coming to police attention as a suspect or offender.
And that’s before we even get into our high rate of homicide involving children.
Under this Government, the duty of looking after our tamariki falls on Minister for Children and for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence – Karen Chhour.
One of her big priorities so far this term has been reforming Oranaga Tamariki, and overseeing the reintroduction of bootcamps as one way of reforming young offenders.
She joins us today on The Front Page to discuss her portfolios and how the Government is planning to help our children.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It'll come
as no surprise when I say New Zealand has a
huge problem with keeping our children safe, fed and housed,
while kids go without basic needs like heating and food.
(00:27):
We started this year with two tragic child deaths within
a week. Government stats show twenty three point five percent
of children born in nineteen ninety eight have been subject
of a report of concern to oranga tamariki by the
age of seventeen, more than one in five kids. And
what happens to these kids? Some of them go on
(00:49):
to commit crimes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Take a police.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Study into youth involved in ramraids, for example, they looked
at sixty three children and young people involved in ramraids
in twenty twenty. More than ninety five percent were linked
to at least one family harm event before first coming
to police attention as a suspect or offender.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So what do we do with these kids?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
The government reckons boot camps are one of the ways
to rehabilitate them, and there's constant debate.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
About their effectiveness.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Most recently claims of a cover up and high reoffending
rates were a pilot of the latest iteration today on
the front page, Minister for Children and for the Prevention
of Family and Sexual Violence Karen sure is with US.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Minister.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Over the last week, Labor has accused the government of
a cover up around the boot Camp trial and the
extent of the reoffending there. What do you say to
claims that up to six of the young youth offenders
are back in youth justice facilities.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And I'm not going to get into numbers of these
young people. Unfortunately, since this pilot has begun, has been
brought to my attention by those who are working with
these young people that they have expressed through their care
teams that the media attention on them has had a
real negative effect and it's actually affecting their well being.
(02:17):
So my ultimate goal is around making sure that these
young people's safety and well being at first and foremost,
and so that's why I've made this decision that we
need to just allow them to get on with what
they need to be doing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It was a pilot for a reason, though, right what
have you learned from it and what changes should be
made if it were to continue.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So we've just released the first review I think it
was last week that was released around the in residence
part of the program, which was around three months, and
it shows some really positive results for the young people,
and not only just for the young people, but for
the staff working with them. It's setting a new way
of working with these young people when they come to
(02:58):
You've Justice residents. So these young people that qualify for
the military style academy must have committed at least two crimes,
being eligible for a sentence of ten years or more
so their repeat offenders. What we've done in the past
is there been sentenced, put in a youth justice facility,
do their sentence and leave, and then they're back in
(03:18):
the community, creating more victims, getting into trouble, and then
ending up back in a youth justice facility. What I've
done here is just ask the question, what could we
be doing better? Instead of just sticking them in a
youth justice facility, waiting for them to see the sentence
out and send them back to the same environment they
were coming from. Let's wrap around not only that young person,
(03:39):
assess them, see what their needs are medically and also
their mental health and any neurodiversity issues. Actually deal with
those issues while they're in residence, help them with their education,
help them with all kinds of things like leaving with
a pack with a driver's license, some idea so that
they can do the basic things in life, and a
CVS that they can apply for jobs. Then work with
(04:02):
the funo in the community and recommendor around them. These
are the extra efforts that we're putting into these young people.
But ultimately what they do with those opportunities is up
to them. But we can now say that we're doing
everything we possibly can to break that cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But with this pilot, if there is a high reoffending rate,
something needs to change, right, Well.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Well, I would just say to you there's a high
reoffending rate before this even began, it's pretty much one
hundred percent chance of them ending up back in a
youth justice facility. What we're doing here is we're trying
something new. We're making sure that we're working with them
in the community. We're not saying this is a magic bullet.
What we're saying is is that this is just another
(04:42):
tool in our about to try and help these young
people be the best that they can be. And like
I said, what they do with that opportunity is up
to them. But we can now say that we are
doing this work right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So it's better to do it and them reoffend than
just not do it at all and them reoffend.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's not what I'm saying. I didn't say it's better
to do it and then reoffend. What I'm saying to
you is is this gives them a better opportunity to
not reoffend. I don't have control of whether these kids
reoffend or not. All I have control around is what
we put around them to help them to be the
best that they can be. Ultimately, as a personal choice
(05:19):
of theirs, whether they take up these opportunities.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
One of the positives that came out of the pilot review.
I remember you as I flicked through. We're saying that,
you know, there wasn't actually any child on child violence,
which is a very common factor within the youth justice facility.
So something we did right and you can't do it. No,
I'm talking in the mat throw. I'm not going to
talk specifics around individuals that may for.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Specifics around individuals, I'm asking for a rate.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, And I'm saying to you, I'm not talking about
individuals and their personal circumstances for privacy reasons. I'm talking
about things and the aggregate to say to you that
there were things that we did really well that were
actually good learnings that you know, when we compare to
how we normally run with justice facilities. And on the
other hand, there'll be things that we can improve.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If we move on to another subject.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I'll tell you when I first moved to this country
a decade ago, there were three children murdered in quick succession,
and I remember being actually quite shocked and asking someone
in the office, you know, is this normal for New Zealand?
And when they replied yes, I was like, okay. Now
ten years later and in the first six days of
(06:29):
twenty twenty five, two children were allegedly murdered in.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
The first six days of the year. Is this good enough?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
The statistics for childdifs that the hands of people who
are supposed to love them is not good enough. It
hasn't been good enough, and that is something that motivated
me in the first place to put my hand up
to be in this space to try and break that
cycle of harm. So I'm very lucky to have another
portfolio other than children's in this space. Around breaking the
(06:59):
side of harm and violence within households, because it's really
important that we get to the crux of what's actually
causing these issues. And when you look at family harm
in this country as actually should be our national shame,
how many people are being hurt and harmed. So one
of the government's priorities in this space is to reduce
(07:21):
the level of violent crimes and sexual violence crimes by
around twenty thousand people is our first targ and so
we're really zoning in in that space, what services are
best to deal with this space, and looking at how
community can come in and really get involved in what
that looks like.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And I mean, I don't need to tell you this
because you've probably seen all of the statistics because like
you said, you've put your hand up for this portfolio.
But I wanted to get your reaction to a couple
that jumped out to me. As of March twenty twenty one,
New Zealand ranked thirty five out of forty one developed
countries for child well being outcomes. Every eighth homicide victim
in New zan from the years twenty four to twenty
(08:02):
nineteen was a child, and more than two thirds of
those were aged under two, and the latest Salvation Army
A State of the Nation report shows violence against children
is rising, with the number of children hospitalized from assault
and neglect in twenty twenty four is the highest in
ten years. When you look at those statistics, I mean,
(08:23):
what do you think, what do we do? First?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's a really good question. And then when I first
came in, I looked at the strategies that the governments
of previous governments had had in place in this space.
And there's multiple agencies that have roles to play in this.
And we talk about in all of government approach, which
sounds good, but unless each agency within government is on
the same page, agencies are siloing who are not actually
(08:48):
speaking to each other, and so there are gaps there
for people, and people are falling through those gaps. And
so my first goal where I wanted to start actually
having a look at all these strategy plans making sure
that they actually were achieving something. And what I did
find was the strategies were massive, there were lots of priorities,
(09:11):
far too many. Government was trying to do way too
much and actually doing nothing well. So the first where
we start as a government and was actually making sure
we prioritize and make sure we get those basics right
so that when people walk through a front door of
an agency, there is no wrong door, so that every
(09:31):
agency is on the right page, and we can get
these people in front of who they need to be
in front of quicker and faster.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
There's been some backlash to the removal of section seven
AA from the Tamariki Act, which is no surprise to you.
It obligates the agency to ensure it said is the
fucker Papa of multi children Muori already fair agencies like
OT after a long history of racism. We've heard some
horror stories from the likes of the Abuse and Care
Inquiry for instance, So why remove something like seven AA.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I have absolutely no objection to fucka Papa being part
of the decision making. What I do object to is
having a piece of legislation within the Act that obligates
the Chief Executive to abide by the treaty of White
tonguey and decision making. That's where my objection came from,
because what does that actually mean. It's quite vague. It
(10:36):
depends on who is interpreting it to how it is
rolled out, and I want to make sure we're all
on the same page. And the first thing we need
to do when it comes to young people, because according
to what you've just said to me, our national shame
is that we have so many children in this country
dying at the hands of people who are supposed to
(10:56):
love and care for them. We need to make sure
that their safety is their well being comes first and
foremost in every decision we're making. Fucker Papa is part
of that, but it shouldn't be the be all and
end all. So this is to clarify so that we're
all on the same page when it comes to audoing
Atomatiki in their core purpose, which is child protection.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now, you yourself have been through the system. You shared
a lot of your story in your maiden speech, including
how child youth and family didn't allow you to move
back in with your grandmother, for instance, and told you
that no one in your family wanted you. How have
your experiences shaped your approach to this portfolio.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I think you current deny that personal experiences of going
through the system will shape how you see things and
sometimes what you're considering when making decisions. But it also
opens your eyes to this system has for far too
long had an organization that looks after the organization. We
(11:55):
need to start looking at making sure that the organization
is focusing on the child's needs and working around the child,
not making the child work around the system. And for
far too long, children have been unheard when they're crying
out to be safe. And yes, I have spoken about that,
and I have spoken about the fact that my grandmother
(12:18):
did want me. Section seven AA would not have changed
that because she would have been a safe environment to
go to. The reasoning behind her not being allowed to
care for me was the fact that they thought she
was too old. Things have changed since I was in
the care system, thank goodness. But we also need to
make sure that there's no unintended consequences where we're ending
(12:41):
up with a lot of grandparents who don't have the
support around them looking after their grandchildren. So that's a
real focus for me this year, making sure that we
are looking at how we support kegib and making sure
that that's a positive experience and they're not feeling like
they are having to fight the system them for every
support that they need for their grandkids.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Now, what could we do to make sure that that
doesn't happen again, That caregivers like grandparents can take on
their grandchildren and be primary caregivers.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, so I've set this as one of my main
priorities this year around making sure that caregivers are satisfied
with their support. We've started off with a caregiver survey
which we're now working our way through, and we're also
looking at different things like are caregivers satisfied with the
(13:35):
support of their social workers? Are they satisfied with the
support of ordering a timidike, because those can often be
two separate issues, but also looking at are you supported
with the tools that you need? Can we get the
young person into education fast enough? Are we making decisions
closer to the ground so that we're not waiting for
Wellington to make a decision about where your young person goes,
(13:57):
which takes far too long, and the young people are
the only ones to suffer. So these are the things
that I'm looking into, and these are the things I'm
directing ordering Atomidiki to focus on to make sure that
we are doing better in that space.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Very often in your retort, you refer to your ancestry
cannot matter more than the safety of a mook upon
which is an absolute abhorrent to ticon, it is abhorrent
to mindy, It is abhorrent through the way in which
we see the world. So it's we're already compromised. Your
model is already compromises the value and the and the
(14:34):
essence of being looking from the MILDI.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Look, I have to disagree with most of what you've said,
and you're entitled to say it, but I actually disagree
with most of what You've got a gap acknowledgments.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
You don't understand.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Now, you've faced a lot of abuse from other Maori
MPs since you've been in parliament. What do you put
this down to and how has affected your handling of
your portfolios?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Oh? Look, how someone sees me as being a Maori
does not affect how I handle my portfolios. That's actually
a them problem, not a me problem. If they want
to be fixated on whether I'm the right kind of Maori,
that's their issue. My job is to come here and
make sure my focus is on making the care system
(15:23):
work better for our young people so that they can
wake up in the morning and know that they're going
to be safe and that today is going to be
a good day. That's my focus. What others think about
who I am as a Maori. Actually, quite frankly, I'm
sick of hearing about it, and they can move on
whenever they're ready.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Key we kids and teens are apparently fifty percent more
likely to die of abuse than those in Australia. What
are we doing wrong and what should we be doing
to fix it?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think it's all of the things that I've mentioned
within this interview. But what I would say is government
alone can not fix this problem. It's not just up
to government to come and fix this issue. Where as
a society, we really need to take a really good
hard look at ourselves and the way that we deal
with this issue. We do tend to turn a blind
(16:16):
eye when things are not necessarily right within our families,
within our neighborhoods. And what I would say to people
is the more we talk about this topic, which can
sometimes be a very uncomfortable topic, and the more we
normalize actually calling out this kind of behavior and support
people who do call out this kind of behavior, the
(16:37):
better we will be as a country.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Former Prime Minister Jasandra A.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Durn once said that she wanted New Zealand to be
the best place in the world to raise a child. Now,
do you think that New Zealand is the best place
in the world to raise a child at the moment?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I think for many people, New Zealand is a wonderful
place to raise their child. For me, I made sure
that my children didn't follow in the same footsteps as
I did. I was determined to make sure that they
had stability in their lives when it came to education
and when it came to having a house and a
roof over the head. And I worked really hard for that.
(17:17):
But there are some people and many in this country
who do face rather large obstacles to make this a
great place for their children to be raised in. I
would say it's a bit above. It can be a
wonderful place, but there's room to improve, and there's a
massive room to improve when it comes to supporting those
(17:37):
young people who don't necessarily have where we don't necessarily
have eyes on you.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Thanks for joining us, minister.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at Enzadhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also
a sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It'll come
as no surprise when I say New Zealand has a
huge problem with keeping our children safe, fed and housed,
while kids go without basic needs like heating and food.
(00:27):
We started this year with two tragic child deaths within
a week. Government stats show twenty three point five percent
of children born in nineteen ninety eight have been subject
of a report of concern to oranga tamariki by the
age of seventeen, more than one in five kids. And
what happens to these kids? Some of them go on
(00:49):
to commit crimes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Take a police.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Study into youth involved in ramraids, for example, they looked
at sixty three children and young people involved in ramraids
in twenty twenty. More than ninety five percent were linked
to at least one family harm event before first coming
to police attention as a suspect or offender.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So what do we do with these kids?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
The government reckons boot camps are one of the ways
to rehabilitate them, and there's constant debate.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
About their effectiveness.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Most recently claims of a cover up and high reoffending
rates were a pilot of the latest iteration today on
the front page, Minister for Children and for the Prevention
of Family and Sexual Violence Karen sure is with US.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Minister.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Over the last week, Labor has accused the government of
a cover up around the boot Camp trial and the
extent of the reoffending there. What do you say to
claims that up to six of the young youth offenders
are back in youth justice facilities.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And I'm not going to get into numbers of these
young people. Unfortunately, since this pilot has begun, has been
brought to my attention by those who are working with
these young people that they have expressed through their care
teams that the media attention on them has had a
real negative effect and it's actually affecting their well being.
(02:17):
So my ultimate goal is around making sure that these
young people's safety and well being at first and foremost,
and so that's why I've made this decision that we
need to just allow them to get on with what
they need to be doing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It was a pilot for a reason, though, right what
have you learned from it and what changes should be
made if it were to continue.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So we've just released the first review I think it
was last week that was released around the in residence
part of the program, which was around three months, and
it shows some really positive results for the young people,
and not only just for the young people, but for
the staff working with them. It's setting a new way
of working with these young people when they come to
(02:58):
You've Justice residents. So these young people that qualify for
the military style academy must have committed at least two crimes,
being eligible for a sentence of ten years or more
so their repeat offenders. What we've done in the past
is there been sentenced, put in a youth justice facility,
do their sentence and leave, and then they're back in
(03:18):
the community, creating more victims, getting into trouble, and then
ending up back in a youth justice facility. What I've
done here is just ask the question, what could we
be doing better? Instead of just sticking them in a
youth justice facility, waiting for them to see the sentence
out and send them back to the same environment they
were coming from. Let's wrap around not only that young person,
(03:39):
assess them, see what their needs are medically and also
their mental health and any neurodiversity issues. Actually deal with
those issues while they're in residence, help them with their education,
help them with all kinds of things like leaving with
a pack with a driver's license, some idea so that
they can do the basic things in life, and a
CVS that they can apply for jobs. Then work with
(04:02):
the funo in the community and recommendor around them. These
are the extra efforts that we're putting into these young people.
But ultimately what they do with those opportunities is up
to them. But we can now say that we're doing
everything we possibly can to break that cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But with this pilot, if there is a high reoffending rate,
something needs to change, right, Well.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Well, I would just say to you there's a high
reoffending rate before this even began, it's pretty much one
hundred percent chance of them ending up back in a
youth justice facility. What we're doing here is we're trying
something new. We're making sure that we're working with them
in the community. We're not saying this is a magic bullet.
What we're saying is is that this is just another
(04:42):
tool in our about to try and help these young
people be the best that they can be. And like
I said, what they do with that opportunity is up
to them. But we can now say that we are
doing this work right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So it's better to do it and them reoffend than
just not do it at all and them reoffend.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's not what I'm saying. I didn't say it's better
to do it and then reoffend. What I'm saying to
you is is this gives them a better opportunity to
not reoffend. I don't have control of whether these kids
reoffend or not. All I have control around is what
we put around them to help them to be the
best that they can be. Ultimately, as a personal choice
(05:19):
of theirs, whether they take up these opportunities.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
One of the positives that came out of the pilot review.
I remember you as I flicked through. We're saying that,
you know, there wasn't actually any child on child violence,
which is a very common factor within the youth justice facility.
So something we did right and you can't do it. No,
I'm talking in the mat throw. I'm not going to
talk specifics around individuals that may for.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Specifics around individuals, I'm asking for a rate.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, And I'm saying to you, I'm not talking about
individuals and their personal circumstances for privacy reasons. I'm talking
about things and the aggregate to say to you that
there were things that we did really well that were
actually good learnings that you know, when we compare to
how we normally run with justice facilities. And on the
other hand, there'll be things that we can improve.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If we move on to another subject.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I'll tell you when I first moved to this country
a decade ago, there were three children murdered in quick succession,
and I remember being actually quite shocked and asking someone
in the office, you know, is this normal for New Zealand?
And when they replied yes, I was like, okay. Now
ten years later and in the first six days of
(06:29):
twenty twenty five, two children were allegedly murdered in.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
The first six days of the year. Is this good enough?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
The statistics for childdifs that the hands of people who
are supposed to love them is not good enough. It
hasn't been good enough, and that is something that motivated
me in the first place to put my hand up
to be in this space to try and break that
cycle of harm. So I'm very lucky to have another
portfolio other than children's in this space. Around breaking the
(06:59):
side of harm and violence within households, because it's really
important that we get to the crux of what's actually
causing these issues. And when you look at family harm
in this country as actually should be our national shame,
how many people are being hurt and harmed. So one
of the government's priorities in this space is to reduce
(07:21):
the level of violent crimes and sexual violence crimes by
around twenty thousand people is our first targ and so
we're really zoning in in that space, what services are
best to deal with this space, and looking at how
community can come in and really get involved in what
that looks like.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And I mean, I don't need to tell you this
because you've probably seen all of the statistics because like
you said, you've put your hand up for this portfolio.
But I wanted to get your reaction to a couple
that jumped out to me. As of March twenty twenty one,
New Zealand ranked thirty five out of forty one developed
countries for child well being outcomes. Every eighth homicide victim
in New zan from the years twenty four to twenty
(08:02):
nineteen was a child, and more than two thirds of
those were aged under two, and the latest Salvation Army
A State of the Nation report shows violence against children
is rising, with the number of children hospitalized from assault
and neglect in twenty twenty four is the highest in
ten years. When you look at those statistics, I mean,
(08:23):
what do you think, what do we do? First?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's a really good question. And then when I first
came in, I looked at the strategies that the governments
of previous governments had had in place in this space.
And there's multiple agencies that have roles to play in this.
And we talk about in all of government approach, which
sounds good, but unless each agency within government is on
the same page, agencies are siloing who are not actually
(08:48):
speaking to each other, and so there are gaps there
for people, and people are falling through those gaps. And
so my first goal where I wanted to start actually
having a look at all these strategy plans making sure
that they actually were achieving something. And what I did
find was the strategies were massive, there were lots of priorities,
(09:11):
far too many. Government was trying to do way too
much and actually doing nothing well. So the first where
we start as a government and was actually making sure
we prioritize and make sure we get those basics right
so that when people walk through a front door of
an agency, there is no wrong door, so that every
(09:31):
agency is on the right page, and we can get
these people in front of who they need to be
in front of quicker and faster.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
There's been some backlash to the removal of section seven
AA from the Tamariki Act, which is no surprise to you.
It obligates the agency to ensure it said is the
fucker Papa of multi children Muori already fair agencies like
OT after a long history of racism. We've heard some
horror stories from the likes of the Abuse and Care
Inquiry for instance, So why remove something like seven AA.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I have absolutely no objection to fucka Papa being part
of the decision making. What I do object to is
having a piece of legislation within the Act that obligates
the Chief Executive to abide by the treaty of White
tonguey and decision making. That's where my objection came from,
because what does that actually mean. It's quite vague. It
(10:36):
depends on who is interpreting it to how it is
rolled out, and I want to make sure we're all
on the same page. And the first thing we need
to do when it comes to young people, because according
to what you've just said to me, our national shame
is that we have so many children in this country
dying at the hands of people who are supposed to
(10:56):
love and care for them. We need to make sure
that their safety is their well being comes first and
foremost in every decision we're making. Fucker Papa is part
of that, but it shouldn't be the be all and
end all. So this is to clarify so that we're
all on the same page when it comes to audoing
Atomatiki in their core purpose, which is child protection.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now, you yourself have been through the system. You shared
a lot of your story in your maiden speech, including
how child youth and family didn't allow you to move
back in with your grandmother, for instance, and told you
that no one in your family wanted you. How have
your experiences shaped your approach to this portfolio.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I think you current deny that personal experiences of going
through the system will shape how you see things and
sometimes what you're considering when making decisions. But it also
opens your eyes to this system has for far too
long had an organization that looks after the organization. We
(11:55):
need to start looking at making sure that the organization
is focusing on the child's needs and working around the child,
not making the child work around the system. And for
far too long, children have been unheard when they're crying
out to be safe. And yes, I have spoken about that,
and I have spoken about the fact that my grandmother
(12:18):
did want me. Section seven AA would not have changed
that because she would have been a safe environment to
go to. The reasoning behind her not being allowed to
care for me was the fact that they thought she
was too old. Things have changed since I was in
the care system, thank goodness. But we also need to
make sure that there's no unintended consequences where we're ending
(12:41):
up with a lot of grandparents who don't have the
support around them looking after their grandchildren. So that's a
real focus for me this year, making sure that we
are looking at how we support kegib and making sure
that that's a positive experience and they're not feeling like
they are having to fight the system them for every
support that they need for their grandkids.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Now, what could we do to make sure that that
doesn't happen again, That caregivers like grandparents can take on
their grandchildren and be primary caregivers.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, so I've set this as one of my main
priorities this year around making sure that caregivers are satisfied
with their support. We've started off with a caregiver survey
which we're now working our way through, and we're also
looking at different things like are caregivers satisfied with the
(13:35):
support of their social workers? Are they satisfied with the
support of ordering a timidike, because those can often be
two separate issues, but also looking at are you supported
with the tools that you need? Can we get the
young person into education fast enough? Are we making decisions
closer to the ground so that we're not waiting for
Wellington to make a decision about where your young person goes,
(13:57):
which takes far too long, and the young people are
the only ones to suffer. So these are the things
that I'm looking into, and these are the things I'm
directing ordering Atomidiki to focus on to make sure that
we are doing better in that space.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Very often in your retort, you refer to your ancestry
cannot matter more than the safety of a mook upon
which is an absolute abhorrent to ticon, it is abhorrent
to mindy, It is abhorrent through the way in which
we see the world. So it's we're already compromised. Your
model is already compromises the value and the and the
(14:34):
essence of being looking from the MILDI.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Look, I have to disagree with most of what you've said,
and you're entitled to say it, but I actually disagree
with most of what You've got a gap acknowledgments.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
You don't understand.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Now, you've faced a lot of abuse from other Maori
MPs since you've been in parliament. What do you put
this down to and how has affected your handling of
your portfolios?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Oh? Look, how someone sees me as being a Maori
does not affect how I handle my portfolios. That's actually
a them problem, not a me problem. If they want
to be fixated on whether I'm the right kind of Maori,
that's their issue. My job is to come here and
make sure my focus is on making the care system
(15:23):
work better for our young people so that they can
wake up in the morning and know that they're going
to be safe and that today is going to be
a good day. That's my focus. What others think about
who I am as a Maori. Actually, quite frankly, I'm
sick of hearing about it, and they can move on
whenever they're ready.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Key we kids and teens are apparently fifty percent more
likely to die of abuse than those in Australia. What
are we doing wrong and what should we be doing
to fix it?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think it's all of the things that I've mentioned
within this interview. But what I would say is government
alone can not fix this problem. It's not just up
to government to come and fix this issue. Where as
a society, we really need to take a really good
hard look at ourselves and the way that we deal
with this issue. We do tend to turn a blind
(16:16):
eye when things are not necessarily right within our families,
within our neighborhoods. And what I would say to people
is the more we talk about this topic, which can
sometimes be a very uncomfortable topic, and the more we
normalize actually calling out this kind of behavior and support
people who do call out this kind of behavior, the
(16:37):
better we will be as a country.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Former Prime Minister Jasandra A.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Durn once said that she wanted New Zealand to be
the best place in the world to raise a child. Now,
do you think that New Zealand is the best place
in the world to raise a child at the moment?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I think for many people, New Zealand is a wonderful
place to raise their child. For me, I made sure
that my children didn't follow in the same footsteps as
I did. I was determined to make sure that they
had stability in their lives when it came to education
and when it came to having a house and a
roof over the head. And I worked really hard for that.
(17:17):
But there are some people and many in this country
who do face rather large obstacles to make this a
great place for their children to be raised in. I
would say it's a bit above. It can be a
wonderful place, but there's room to improve, and there's a
massive room to improve when it comes to supporting those
(17:37):
young people who don't necessarily have where we don't necessarily
have eyes on you.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Thanks for joining us, minister.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at Enzadhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also
a sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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