June 12, 2025 • 20 mins
If you’ve turned on an American news channel in the last week, you would’ve seen wall to wall coverage of protests spreading across the country.
It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city.
LA Mayor Karen Bass has blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said "provoked" residents by causing "fear" and "panic".
While Trump has compared protesters to a “foreign invasion” and said that troops will “liberate” Los Angeles.
With the protests now being picked up in other major cities, how widespread could this get – and how much of this is a test case for what will happen in the rest of Trump’s term?
Today on The Front Page, 9News US correspondent Jonathan Kearsley is with us from Los Angeles to explain what’s happening on the ground.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
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Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
If you've turned on any.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
American news channel in the last week, you would have
seen water wall coverage of protests spreading across the country.
It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police
and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin
Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
La Mayor Karen Bass has.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said
provoked residents by causing fear and panic. Meanwhile, Trump has
compared protesters to a foreign invasion and said troops will
liberate Los Angeles. With the protests now being picked up
in other major cities, how wide spread could this get
(00:58):
and how much of this is a test case for
what will happen in the rest of Trump's term. Today
on the Front Page, nine News, US correspondent Jonathan Kurzley
is with us from Los Angeles to explain what's happening
on the ground. First off, can you tell me how
(01:19):
these protests started.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, these protests started almost a week ago. It was
essentially following raids that had been carried out by Immigrations
and Customs Enforcement officials in Los Angeles. Similar raids had
been done in Chicago, previously wooded by the Trump administration.
They say to targets illegal immigrants who have committed violent
crimes and to deport them. Los Angeles has a huge
(01:44):
migrant community and a very large Hispanic and Mexican population.
There have been concerns amongst some people, even though they
say they are legitimate citizens, that they fear they could
be deported, or that they're family members who may be
undocumented may be deported by the Trump administration. There was
anger on the streets on Friday, and in the days
(02:06):
that followed that anger erupted and it's spread like wildfire
across the country.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, so tell me about this ICE situation, perhaps for
some Kiwis who don't know what that is.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
ICE is essentially the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. It is,
if you like, the agency that goes and looks after
trying to find illegal immigrants or trying to find issues
with customs breaches, and then enforcing those measures.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now they've been enforced much more.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Forcefully under the administration of President Trump than perhaps many
experts say previous administration. Donald Trump has made no bones
about what it is he wants to do with migration.
He's claimed America has had an open border, it's had
migration problems. He's pointed to cases where illegal immigrants have
killed people, have harmed people, have maimed people, and spoken
(02:59):
with family members who say that their loved ones would
not have been in such a position had it not
been for an attack by an illegal immigrant. Many of
the migrant community, particularly here in Los Angeles, though, feel
that that is a slur against them. And I'm talking
about proper migrants here, documented migrants who are here in
(03:19):
this country properly, but just so happened to be of
a Mexican background, or a Colombian background, or any particular
foreign background that is not American. They feel that this
is an attack on them and their community and their
family members. And it's been well known for a long
period of time that there are large numbers of undocumented
migrants in the Los Angeles and California area.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
The economy for years has relied on.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
These workers to be part of this industry and to
be part of the employment sector. And right now that
they all feel as though they are under attack. So
the ICE Agency is the one in charge of carrying
out the wishes of the administration when it comes to
border measures and immigration issues.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Essentially, they are.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
In country to carry out roads on people who they
want to get out of the country.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Well, the chaos here in downtown Los Angeles continues tonight.
I got to say, doesn't feel like the ala we
all know and are familiar with. This feels like some
sort of Third world conflicts. I mean, we have fires
burning in the middle of intersections. We have police and
law enforcement agencies under constant attack by these protest as
they have had.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Rocks hurled through the winter.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
They are firing fireworks directly at offices who are backed off.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Of it, I've got to say.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
And as the knight has worn on, the number of
protesters certainly has dwindled, But they are the ones left
are the real anarchists, the ones who are intent on
causing the most damaged.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
What's it like there on the ground in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What have you sai as I talk to you, this
is now Wednesday evening, Los Angeles time.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
It is day six of these protests.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Today, we've seen the protests dwindle in size. We are
approaching the time of the curfew that has been set
for eight pm local time.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
That is a curfew.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Have read about a couple of square kilometers of downtown
Los Angeles, in the area that is normally thriving with people.
It is largely a business district, and most of the
protesters have been targeting federal buildings or court buildings or
the headquarters of the Los Angeles Police Department that are
also down there as well. But it has been much
quieter today than we've seen in previous days. We as
(05:35):
I mentioned it started Friday, things picked up over Saturday,
particularly into Sunday and Monday, and.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Then Tuesday and Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Here things have really started to die down a little bit.
Maybe there is a sense that we are getting to
the end of this cycle of protests.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But you look at New York, you look at Dallas.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You look at Atlanta, in Georgia, Boston, Chicago, there have
been spotfires, protests.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Flare up right across this country.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
So even though Los Angeles may be calming, it may
start to get a little bit noisier in other cities.
So you have to remember here too, Donald Trump has
effectively mobilized seven hundred Marines. The idea that you would
use the US Marines an arm of the US military,
against his own citizens is an extraordinary move. He's also
(06:24):
moved to mobilize thousands of National Guard to do a
move where he's effectively overruling and overriding a state governor
here in the United States, which has been done since
nineteen sixty five. There is an extraordinary amount of power
being thrown at this to try and quell what today
looks like to be just maybe a couple of hundred
(06:45):
protesters on the streets. You do hope, though, that the
violence calms down, that people who want to discuss these
issues can get around a table and discuss them, because
it's been pretty frightening scenes on the streets of Los
Angeles over the course of the last week or so.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, and you've spoken to people on the ground. I mean,
what's a story from someone that you've spoken to that
sticks out to you.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
We've spoken to people who have had their father deported
that they are protesting for their own father's sake. We've
spoken to people who are concerned about their neighbors being deported.
It is a real sense of community spirit among those
who are down there legitimately trying to plead their case.
(07:26):
There is certainly a sign that there are trouble makers
in amongst the mix. And you did when I've been
out there, you tend to see the same groups of
people moving around bit by bit.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
But those who are passionate about.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
This issue on a personal level and who it impacts
really are just trying to drive the point home that
these fathers, they are sons, they are people who are
not criminals being targeted, they say, and they are trying
to get a message across the Amrea people that what
(08:01):
is taking place is not right, is not fair, and
is not just. So it is certainly for these people
it is emotional, it is deeply heartbreaking. But then you
combine that with those who are seeking to carry out
these protests because they want to clash with police, it
damages the movement of the protesters as a whole. Those
(08:25):
who are merely demonstrating about their own families, plant their
own communities light and trying to get the message across
to the Trump administration that things need to calm down.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
You take a look at what happened in San Diego.
There's so many different places where we let it burn.
We want to be politically correct, We wanted to be nice.
We want to be nice to the criminal, and what
you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in
this country. Now, we did the right thing.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
We've been given credit for by.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
People that I would least suspect. I would say that
some of the people that came in and said thank goodness,
they said some of them thank god that Trump got involved.
And I'm very happy I got involved. And I think Gavin,
in his own way, is probably happy I got involved.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So Trump's defended his decision to send in the troops,
saying it was to prevent the city being conquered by
a foreign enemy. What are people saying about the use
of the military there.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Here in Los Angeles across California. It's fury.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It's a fear that their streets are being militarized, that
they are having their own army used against them, that
the National Guard is being brought in when it's not needed.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
The LAPD, the police department in.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Los Angeles, had said for the first couple of days
they believed that they could control the situation.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
By about night.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Three, they started to move their positions, say hey, look,
maybe the National Guard could be brought in. We've seen
Republican governors, that is, governors of Donald Trump's party and
others dates bring in the National Guard. Normally it is
the responsibility of a state governor to say, okay, now
it is time for the National Guard. And they are
essentially troops who come in in the event of emergencies
(10:11):
or natural disasters and help either clean up, restore peace,
and make areas a little bit safer.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So they can be everything from road closures to.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
As I've seen, standing outside federal immigration facilities with armed weapons.
So look, there is a real sense of anger about
the action that President Trump has taken. And I think
the US Marines we've seen mobilized into Los Angeles over
the course of the last forty eight hours, if they
were ever to be in a position where you had
Marines standing shoulder to shoulder jostling with protesters, that would
(10:44):
be a very difficult image for Americans to comprehend. The
idea of their own army. That idea is to serve
and to protect all of a sudden is being used
on their own citizens. Rather than fighting foreign wars or
fighting wars to protect American lives. It's an extraordinary position
(11:04):
that America finds itself in, and many people that you
speak to, whether they are political analysts or whether they
are people on the street, to tell you that this
is all about Donald Trump trying to wield power and
exert influence and to say to the rest of America
that if you do not agree with you, do not
follow my policies in the way I want you to,
(11:26):
then I have the force and I can use it.
That's the message he wants to send across America with this.
At the moment, though, you've got protesters in multiple cities
who are starting to speak up and speak out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
A lot of this feels like it's turning into a
Trump versus Democrats, issue, doesn't it. California is obviously the
most populous US state, pretty dominated by Democrat governors, mayor's, senators,
Congress people. Does it feel like he's sending a message
to the Democrats maybe about how far he is actually
willing to go.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's a message to Democrats, it's a message to Republicans,
it's a message to Americans, it's a message to the
world It is about power in so many aspects. Donald
Trump has long wanted a fight with California. He has
long wanted to try and turn this state Democrat blue
into Republican red. Part of this for him is a
(12:25):
political power play. He is taking up a political fight
at the upper level with the Californian Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
He is feuding with Elais Mayor Karen Bass, and.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
He feuded with both during the fires in January of
this year as well. So this is not new ground
for him. He has done this before and he will
continue to do it. He is trying to show that
he wields the power, that he is America's commander in chief,
and he's also a.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Fan of potential. So he's getting it.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The question is, though, is whether that attention is going
to be positive for him or negative for him. Right now,
he will see that he is winning, think that he
is winning a public fight with Gavin Newsom, with Karen Bass.
But this is also a fight that is obviously right
the way down at the street level. Two, this is
not just about Donald Trump and governors. This is about ideologies,
(13:19):
This is about policy, This is about people's lives. But
the American president is known so much for thinking only
about the American president and how he's perceived.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
California Governor Gavin Newsom is seen as a potential presidential
contend of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
How has he fared through all of this? Do people
like him?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
There?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Govern Newsom is very well liked in California. He is
very popular among the Democratic base. He is well liked
for standing up to Donald Trump. Whether that message is
going to be received by people who might want to
vote for him in a primary in twenty twenty eight
on the other side of the country, I don't yet know.
(14:00):
And you have to factor into this too. Yes, Governor
Newsom may well be making a power play for the
twenty twenty eight nomination. So part of this fight for
him is certainly on that to a level, there is
politics playing out within what is a pretty nasty situation
on the ground, and nobody ever wants to see politics
(14:22):
involved in these things. But it is politics that led
to it. It is politics that is filtering all the
way through it, and it is ambition and desire for
power that is also driving it, and that is driving
the argument on both sides. Be it Donald Trump's argument
bit Gavin Newsom's argument his message yesterday that he put
(14:42):
out as I talked to you on Wednesday, Los Angeles Time.
His message he put out Tuesday, Los Angeles Time was
quite simply extraordinary. It was essentially accusing the president of
the United States of America of being somebody who was
essentially trying to be an authoritarian figure, trying to be
(15:04):
a dictator, trying to militarize the streets of America's second
largest city.
Speaker 7 (15:12):
Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles.
Well beyond his stated intent to just go after violent
and serious criminals. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers,
and seamstresses. That's just weakness, weakness masquerading as strength. Donald
(15:33):
Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities,
and that seems to be the entire point. California will
keep fighting. We'll keep fighting on behalf of our people,
all of our people, including in the courts.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
It's an extraordinary level of commentary from a man who
is also at the same time trying to weigh up
his own police future. What happens for him when he
is no longer governor, does he try and be the
next person in the White House.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
As an Australian in the US, does this all feel
a little bit abnormal? Just watching the scenes on TV,
it feels strange to see all of this happening, these
kind of demonstrations, the troops coming in. It just seems
so extreme. I mean, your colleague Lauren to MARSI got
shot by a rubber bullet while reporting. So does this
feel extraordinary to you?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Well, first things first, we're all just glad that Lauren
is okay. She has spoken out about what she went through,
and she was doing her job. She does an extraordinary
job at everything she does. She's an extraordinary colleague and
a good friend. And she went through what she has
described as an unfortunate experience and I think.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
That's putting it mildly. She was shot reporting at a protest.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Actions that Australia's own Prime Minister have described as horrific
to have to happen to someone, and he has seen
the footage himself.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Hours of standing off this situation has now rapidly deteriorated.
The LAPD moving it on horseback, firing rubber bullets and
protesters moving them on through the heart of LA. Look,
(17:26):
I feel embarrassed, quite frankly, I really don't want to
be the story as part of this. We were just
on the ground trying to do our job. I was there,
you know, Jimmy and I were doing our best to
bring to Australia what is unfolding on the streets of
LA And I think, you know, as a journalist, we
want to be there telling the story. I think, you know,
(17:46):
it's it's a really crappy thing that's happened. But I really,
I really don't want to be the story here. It is,
you know, a really chaotic situation that's unfolding in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
We see on the streets here in America, well, American.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Protests you see more broadly moving around the country are
more different than we might be used to in Australia
or even New Zealand. Here you're dealing with an entirely
different situation, and it also depends on which.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
State you're in.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Now, why are police so heavily armed, Why are they
using so much force? Why they designed to use non
lethal force? Well, there's a range of reasons for that
across different cities. But you've also got to remember too,
I think there's an added aspect to this that in
some states in America there is open carry a lot
of firearms. In other states there's concealed carrier a lot
of firearms. So ultimately it's a difficult job too for
police in some senses, because they might be able to
(18:38):
protest not knowing what people are carrying. Somebody could have
a gun on them and they just don't know. So
LA has seen huge numbers of big protests over many,
many years. It has become not a protest hub. But
you go back to the Black Lives Matter protests of
twenty twenty in the in the wake of the murder
of George Floyd, or go to the Rodney King protests
(19:01):
of the nineteen nineties. I mean, it has a history
of protest activity and police overreach in some certain aspects too.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So when you are at these things, you have to
be on edge.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
We take security with us everywhere we go in these
things in case when we need to get dragged out
of the situation. But ordinary protesters don't have security with them.
They don't have somebody standing at their shoulder watching ready
to pull them out if something gets a little bit hairy.
So look, yes, American protest situations, they're far more different
than we might be used to. But also you have
(19:34):
to say, more broadly, America as a country as a
whole can be a fantastic place to live in. There
are beautiful parts of this country right across it. But
you know, you can turn up to a protest like
the ones we've seen in Los Angeles and things can
go wrong. Things can go wrong anywhere, but right now
Los Angeles, we hope the situation is starting to.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Calm down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
But these are going to be discussions that continue for
years long beyond these protests about immigration, around protest conditions,
around should the military even be allowed to be called
on and turned on it against American citizens. Those conversations
will happen, But right now you've just got to try
and find some way to get peace on the streets.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan, no worries.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(20:40):
tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
If you've turned on any.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
American news channel in the last week, you would have
seen water wall coverage of protests spreading across the country.
It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police
and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin
Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
La Mayor Karen Bass has.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said
provoked residents by causing fear and panic. Meanwhile, Trump has
compared protesters to a foreign invasion and said troops will
liberate Los Angeles. With the protests now being picked up
in other major cities, how wide spread could this get
(00:58):
and how much of this is a test case for
what will happen in the rest of Trump's term. Today
on the Front Page, nine News, US correspondent Jonathan Kurzley
is with us from Los Angeles to explain what's happening
on the ground. First off, can you tell me how
(01:19):
these protests started.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, these protests started almost a week ago. It was
essentially following raids that had been carried out by Immigrations
and Customs Enforcement officials in Los Angeles. Similar raids had
been done in Chicago, previously wooded by the Trump administration.
They say to targets illegal immigrants who have committed violent
crimes and to deport them. Los Angeles has a huge
(01:44):
migrant community and a very large Hispanic and Mexican population.
There have been concerns amongst some people, even though they
say they are legitimate citizens, that they fear they could
be deported, or that they're family members who may be
undocumented may be deported by the Trump administration. There was
anger on the streets on Friday, and in the days
(02:06):
that followed that anger erupted and it's spread like wildfire
across the country.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, so tell me about this ICE situation, perhaps for
some Kiwis who don't know what that is.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
ICE is essentially the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. It is,
if you like, the agency that goes and looks after
trying to find illegal immigrants or trying to find issues
with customs breaches, and then enforcing those measures.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Now they've been enforced much more.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Forcefully under the administration of President Trump than perhaps many
experts say previous administration. Donald Trump has made no bones
about what it is he wants to do with migration.
He's claimed America has had an open border, it's had
migration problems. He's pointed to cases where illegal immigrants have
killed people, have harmed people, have maimed people, and spoken
(02:59):
with family members who say that their loved ones would
not have been in such a position had it not
been for an attack by an illegal immigrant. Many of
the migrant community, particularly here in Los Angeles, though, feel
that that is a slur against them. And I'm talking
about proper migrants here, documented migrants who are here in
(03:19):
this country properly, but just so happened to be of
a Mexican background, or a Colombian background, or any particular
foreign background that is not American. They feel that this
is an attack on them and their community and their
family members. And it's been well known for a long
period of time that there are large numbers of undocumented
migrants in the Los Angeles and California area.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
The economy for years has relied on.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
These workers to be part of this industry and to
be part of the employment sector. And right now that
they all feel as though they are under attack. So
the ICE Agency is the one in charge of carrying
out the wishes of the administration when it comes to
border measures and immigration issues.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Essentially, they are.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
In country to carry out roads on people who they
want to get out of the country.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Well, the chaos here in downtown Los Angeles continues tonight.
I got to say, doesn't feel like the ala we
all know and are familiar with. This feels like some
sort of Third world conflicts. I mean, we have fires
burning in the middle of intersections. We have police and
law enforcement agencies under constant attack by these protest as
they have had.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Rocks hurled through the winter.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
They are firing fireworks directly at offices who are backed off.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Of it, I've got to say.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
And as the knight has worn on, the number of
protesters certainly has dwindled, But they are the ones left
are the real anarchists, the ones who are intent on
causing the most damaged.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
What's it like there on the ground in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What have you sai as I talk to you, this
is now Wednesday evening, Los Angeles time.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
It is day six of these protests.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Today, we've seen the protests dwindle in size. We are
approaching the time of the curfew that has been set
for eight pm local time.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
That is a curfew.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Have read about a couple of square kilometers of downtown
Los Angeles, in the area that is normally thriving with people.
It is largely a business district, and most of the
protesters have been targeting federal buildings or court buildings or
the headquarters of the Los Angeles Police Department that are
also down there as well. But it has been much
quieter today than we've seen in previous days. We as
(05:35):
I mentioned it started Friday, things picked up over Saturday,
particularly into Sunday and Monday, and.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Then Tuesday and Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Here things have really started to die down a little bit.
Maybe there is a sense that we are getting to
the end of this cycle of protests.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But you look at New York, you look at Dallas.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You look at Atlanta, in Georgia, Boston, Chicago, there have
been spotfires, protests.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Flare up right across this country.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
So even though Los Angeles may be calming, it may
start to get a little bit noisier in other cities.
So you have to remember here too, Donald Trump has
effectively mobilized seven hundred Marines. The idea that you would
use the US Marines an arm of the US military,
against his own citizens is an extraordinary move. He's also
(06:24):
moved to mobilize thousands of National Guard to do a
move where he's effectively overruling and overriding a state governor
here in the United States, which has been done since
nineteen sixty five. There is an extraordinary amount of power
being thrown at this to try and quell what today
looks like to be just maybe a couple of hundred
(06:45):
protesters on the streets. You do hope, though, that the
violence calms down, that people who want to discuss these
issues can get around a table and discuss them, because
it's been pretty frightening scenes on the streets of Los
Angeles over the course of the last week or so.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, and you've spoken to people on the ground. I mean,
what's a story from someone that you've spoken to that
sticks out to you.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
We've spoken to people who have had their father deported
that they are protesting for their own father's sake. We've
spoken to people who are concerned about their neighbors being deported.
It is a real sense of community spirit among those
who are down there legitimately trying to plead their case.
(07:26):
There is certainly a sign that there are trouble makers
in amongst the mix. And you did when I've been
out there, you tend to see the same groups of
people moving around bit by bit.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
But those who are passionate about.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
This issue on a personal level and who it impacts
really are just trying to drive the point home that
these fathers, they are sons, they are people who are
not criminals being targeted, they say, and they are trying
to get a message across the Amrea people that what
(08:01):
is taking place is not right, is not fair, and
is not just. So it is certainly for these people
it is emotional, it is deeply heartbreaking. But then you
combine that with those who are seeking to carry out
these protests because they want to clash with police, it
damages the movement of the protesters as a whole. Those
(08:25):
who are merely demonstrating about their own families, plant their
own communities light and trying to get the message across
to the Trump administration that things need to calm down.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
You take a look at what happened in San Diego.
There's so many different places where we let it burn.
We want to be politically correct, We wanted to be nice.
We want to be nice to the criminal, and what
you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in
this country. Now, we did the right thing.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
We've been given credit for by.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
People that I would least suspect. I would say that
some of the people that came in and said thank goodness,
they said some of them thank god that Trump got involved.
And I'm very happy I got involved. And I think Gavin,
in his own way, is probably happy I got involved.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So Trump's defended his decision to send in the troops,
saying it was to prevent the city being conquered by
a foreign enemy. What are people saying about the use
of the military there.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Here in Los Angeles across California. It's fury.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It's a fear that their streets are being militarized, that
they are having their own army used against them, that
the National Guard is being brought in when it's not needed.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
The LAPD, the police department in.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Los Angeles, had said for the first couple of days
they believed that they could control the situation.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
By about night.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Three, they started to move their positions, say hey, look,
maybe the National Guard could be brought in. We've seen
Republican governors, that is, governors of Donald Trump's party and
others dates bring in the National Guard. Normally it is
the responsibility of a state governor to say, okay, now
it is time for the National Guard. And they are
essentially troops who come in in the event of emergencies
(10:11):
or natural disasters and help either clean up, restore peace,
and make areas a little bit safer.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So they can be everything from road closures to.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
As I've seen, standing outside federal immigration facilities with armed weapons.
So look, there is a real sense of anger about
the action that President Trump has taken. And I think
the US Marines we've seen mobilized into Los Angeles over
the course of the last forty eight hours, if they
were ever to be in a position where you had
Marines standing shoulder to shoulder jostling with protesters, that would
(10:44):
be a very difficult image for Americans to comprehend. The
idea of their own army. That idea is to serve
and to protect all of a sudden is being used
on their own citizens. Rather than fighting foreign wars or
fighting wars to protect American lives. It's an extraordinary position
(11:04):
that America finds itself in, and many people that you
speak to, whether they are political analysts or whether they
are people on the street, to tell you that this
is all about Donald Trump trying to wield power and
exert influence and to say to the rest of America
that if you do not agree with you, do not
follow my policies in the way I want you to,
(11:26):
then I have the force and I can use it.
That's the message he wants to send across America with this.
At the moment, though, you've got protesters in multiple cities
who are starting to speak up and speak out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
A lot of this feels like it's turning into a
Trump versus Democrats, issue, doesn't it. California is obviously the
most populous US state, pretty dominated by Democrat governors, mayor's, senators,
Congress people. Does it feel like he's sending a message
to the Democrats maybe about how far he is actually
willing to go.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's a message to Democrats, it's a message to Republicans,
it's a message to Americans, it's a message to the
world It is about power in so many aspects. Donald
Trump has long wanted a fight with California. He has
long wanted to try and turn this state Democrat blue
into Republican red. Part of this for him is a
(12:25):
political power play. He is taking up a political fight
at the upper level with the Californian Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
He is feuding with Elais Mayor Karen Bass, and.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
He feuded with both during the fires in January of
this year as well. So this is not new ground
for him. He has done this before and he will
continue to do it. He is trying to show that
he wields the power, that he is America's commander in chief,
and he's also a.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Fan of potential. So he's getting it.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The question is, though, is whether that attention is going
to be positive for him or negative for him. Right now,
he will see that he is winning, think that he
is winning a public fight with Gavin Newsom, with Karen Bass.
But this is also a fight that is obviously right
the way down at the street level. Two, this is
not just about Donald Trump and governors. This is about ideologies,
(13:19):
This is about policy, This is about people's lives. But
the American president is known so much for thinking only
about the American president and how he's perceived.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
California Governor Gavin Newsom is seen as a potential presidential
contend of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
How has he fared through all of this? Do people
like him?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
There?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Govern Newsom is very well liked in California. He is
very popular among the Democratic base. He is well liked
for standing up to Donald Trump. Whether that message is
going to be received by people who might want to
vote for him in a primary in twenty twenty eight
on the other side of the country, I don't yet know.
(14:00):
And you have to factor into this too. Yes, Governor
Newsom may well be making a power play for the
twenty twenty eight nomination. So part of this fight for
him is certainly on that to a level, there is
politics playing out within what is a pretty nasty situation
on the ground, and nobody ever wants to see politics
(14:22):
involved in these things. But it is politics that led
to it. It is politics that is filtering all the
way through it, and it is ambition and desire for
power that is also driving it, and that is driving
the argument on both sides. Be it Donald Trump's argument
bit Gavin Newsom's argument his message yesterday that he put
(14:42):
out as I talked to you on Wednesday, Los Angeles Time.
His message he put out Tuesday, Los Angeles Time was
quite simply extraordinary. It was essentially accusing the president of
the United States of America of being somebody who was
essentially trying to be an authoritarian figure, trying to be
(15:04):
a dictator, trying to militarize the streets of America's second
largest city.
Speaker 7 (15:12):
Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles.
Well beyond his stated intent to just go after violent
and serious criminals. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers,
and seamstresses. That's just weakness, weakness masquerading as strength. Donald
(15:33):
Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities,
and that seems to be the entire point. California will
keep fighting. We'll keep fighting on behalf of our people,
all of our people, including in the courts.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
It's an extraordinary level of commentary from a man who
is also at the same time trying to weigh up
his own police future. What happens for him when he
is no longer governor, does he try and be the
next person in the White House.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
As an Australian in the US, does this all feel
a little bit abnormal? Just watching the scenes on TV,
it feels strange to see all of this happening, these
kind of demonstrations, the troops coming in. It just seems
so extreme. I mean, your colleague Lauren to MARSI got
shot by a rubber bullet while reporting. So does this
feel extraordinary to you?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Well, first things first, we're all just glad that Lauren
is okay. She has spoken out about what she went through,
and she was doing her job. She does an extraordinary
job at everything she does. She's an extraordinary colleague and
a good friend. And she went through what she has
described as an unfortunate experience and I think.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
That's putting it mildly. She was shot reporting at a protest.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Actions that Australia's own Prime Minister have described as horrific
to have to happen to someone, and he has seen
the footage himself.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Hours of standing off this situation has now rapidly deteriorated.
The LAPD moving it on horseback, firing rubber bullets and
protesters moving them on through the heart of LA. Look,
(17:26):
I feel embarrassed, quite frankly, I really don't want to
be the story as part of this. We were just
on the ground trying to do our job. I was there,
you know, Jimmy and I were doing our best to
bring to Australia what is unfolding on the streets of
LA And I think, you know, as a journalist, we
want to be there telling the story. I think, you know,
(17:46):
it's it's a really crappy thing that's happened. But I really,
I really don't want to be the story here. It is,
you know, a really chaotic situation that's unfolding in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
We see on the streets here in America, well, American.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Protests you see more broadly moving around the country are
more different than we might be used to in Australia
or even New Zealand. Here you're dealing with an entirely
different situation, and it also depends on which.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
State you're in.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Now, why are police so heavily armed, Why are they
using so much force? Why they designed to use non
lethal force? Well, there's a range of reasons for that
across different cities. But you've also got to remember too,
I think there's an added aspect to this that in
some states in America there is open carry a lot
of firearms. In other states there's concealed carrier a lot
of firearms. So ultimately it's a difficult job too for
police in some senses, because they might be able to
(18:38):
protest not knowing what people are carrying. Somebody could have
a gun on them and they just don't know. So
LA has seen huge numbers of big protests over many,
many years. It has become not a protest hub. But
you go back to the Black Lives Matter protests of
twenty twenty in the in the wake of the murder
of George Floyd, or go to the Rodney King protests
(19:01):
of the nineteen nineties. I mean, it has a history
of protest activity and police overreach in some certain aspects too.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So when you are at these things, you have to
be on edge.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
We take security with us everywhere we go in these
things in case when we need to get dragged out
of the situation. But ordinary protesters don't have security with them.
They don't have somebody standing at their shoulder watching ready
to pull them out if something gets a little bit hairy.
So look, yes, American protest situations, they're far more different
than we might be used to. But also you have
(19:34):
to say, more broadly, America as a country as a
whole can be a fantastic place to live in. There
are beautiful parts of this country right across it. But
you know, you can turn up to a protest like
the ones we've seen in Los Angeles and things can
go wrong. Things can go wrong anywhere, but right now
Los Angeles, we hope the situation is starting to.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Calm down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
But these are going to be discussions that continue for
years long beyond these protests about immigration, around protest conditions,
around should the military even be allowed to be called
on and turned on it against American citizens. Those conversations
will happen, But right now you've just got to try
and find some way to get peace on the streets.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan, no worries.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(20:40):
tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
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