November 17, 2025 • 23 mins
While the world ponders whether being a billionaire is ethical in these challenging times, another potential dilemma has arisen... trillionaires.
Elon Musk is on track to become the world’s first trillion-dollar man after Tesla shareholders approved a pay package for the founder in the form of additional company shares over the next decade.
CNN reported that the addition of 423.7 million shares over the next 10 years could equate to earning US$275 million ($484m) a day.
It comes at a time when billionaire wealth has surged three times faster last year than the year before, while the number of people living in poverty has barely changed since 1990.
Figures from Oxfam’s January global inequality report showed global billionaire wealth grew by $2t in 2024 alone. In Aotearoa New Zealand, billionaire wealth increased by $5b ($12m per day).
In 2024, the number of billionaires rose to 2,769, up from 2,565 in 2023.
Oxfam’s Nick Henry joins The Front Page to discuss wealth generated by accumulating the benefits of work that other people do.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The New Zealand Herald. While the world ponders whether.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Being a billionaire is ethical in these challenging times, another
potential dilemma has arisen trillionaires. Tesla founder Elon Musk is
on track to becoming the world's first trillion dollar man,
and it comes at a time when billionaire wealth has
surged three times faster last year than the year before,
(00:41):
while the number of people living in poverty has barely
changed since nineteen ninety. Today on the front page, ox
vam Altieroa's Climate Justice League, Nick Henry is with.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Us to discuss whether ethical billionaires are even a thing and.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
How we might be able to address wealth inequality. Right next,
So let's talk money. What are oxfam's latest figures on
billionaire wealth.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah? Well, OXFAM International producers a report Global Inequality Report
every January, and that coincides with the global meeting at
Davos in Switzerland out of the World Economic Forum, where
a lot of billionaires are in attendance and the focus
is on the megawealthy at that ski resort in Switzerland.
(01:37):
And so we really try to draw attention to the
excesses of wealth and the inequality that that's creating in
the world, compared to really the stagnation of progress for
not just the poorest, but the majority of people in
the world who have not seen their wealth substantially increase.
(02:01):
While the wealth of billionaires is trending upwards at times
it seems like an exponential increase.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, I mean, billionaire wealth surged by two trillion dollars
last year.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
According to this report. How does that compare to us?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Suppose the rest of us, the majority of the world,
have not seen an increase in their wealth.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And the only reason that we're not going backwards entirely
is the progress made by countries like China in reducing
absolute poverty. But even in China you have growing inequality.
In India you have growing inequality as the majority of
the wealth is captured by a growing number of billionaires,
(02:54):
and wealth inequality is growing even faster than income inequality.
The majority of people, and I think the majority of
New Zealanders could relate to this, find it pretty hard
to save more than a small buffer week to week,
So the majority of people, it's a bit of an
American expression, But you'd say a living paycheck to paycheck.
(03:16):
While the billionaires are really stacking cash at a faster
rate that they can, then they can spend it at
a faster rate that they are willing to give it away.
Their wealth is growing faster than they even seem to
know what to do with it. I think the rest
of us would have some pretty good ideas about what
to do with some of that wealth. Collectively, and bearing
(03:40):
in mind that if billionaires paid their fair share of
taxes like there, like what an ordinary person reading the
tax code would think that they should be paying, they
would still be living an unimaginable luxury. As multi billionaires
or as you know, multi multi millionaires, their lifestyles are
(04:03):
not really a threat. What needs to be rained in
is the level of power and influence, disproportionate influence over
the economy and the political system, This accumulation of essentially
useless wealth.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
You mentioned billionaires, and do it having more money than
what they know what to do with. I was just
having a conversation in the newsroom that a million dollars
used to be an aspiration, you know, becoming a millionaire.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But you'd be hard pressed to find an apartment or
even a two bedroom home in Auckland for undred a
million dollars these days. How many more billionaires are we
looking at?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, just on that first point, I think in New
Zealand dollars, to be a millionaire is basically to maybe
own your own house in a major city or have
saved for a retirement a million dollars. I was just
looking at the figures on a household median income, So
(05:08):
that's the middle New Zealand household. A million dollars is
about fourteen years of income, and of course no one
saves their entire income, but it is fourteen years of
about the middle household income. But of course a billion
dollars is a thousand times that, So that's fourteen thousand
years of the middle household income. And when you put
(05:31):
that in perspective, it's possible to earn a million dollars
just by having you know, maybe two people working sort
of middle income jobs for most of their working lives.
You could earn a million dollars. But it's impossible for
anyone to earn a billion dollars. You're talking at that
(05:54):
point about wealth generated by wealth, wealth generated by a
qum relating the benefits of work that other people are
doing and really disproportionately. So you asked how many new
billionaires we're seeing? So and the last time Oxford produced
(06:14):
our report in January this year, we looked at the
twenty twenty four figures up until November twenty twenty four
and found two thousand, seven hundred and sixty nine billionaires
in the world. So that was two hundred and four
more than the previous year twenty twenty three, and we
(06:37):
said that that meant nearly four a week new billionaires.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And I just looked this morning at the latest figures
because it is November twenty twenty five, and with the
caveat that this will all be checked by the oxfand
Global team and the methodology will be applied as diligently
as always do for the January report. So without holding
(07:05):
me to that level of scrudiny brutany on my methodology,
just looking at the Forbes Rich List, which is what
we use each year to to find those figures, I
see three twenty two billionaires currently on that Forbes Rich
(07:30):
List as of today, and that's an increase of three
hundred and fifty three from this time last year, which
means more than six new billionaires every week, So that
shows an escalation on the on the previous year.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Well, forty two million Americans are facing the risk of
going hungry amid the longest government shutdown in American history
because of food stamps being put on hold. Tesla's shareholders
just voted to give Elon Musk potential trillion dollar paypack.
That's two hundred and seventy five million dollars per day
over the next ten years. How would you even spend that?
This comes after Musk reportedly threatened to walk away from
(08:13):
the company if they refused his raise. The payment will
be in the form of more than four hundred and
twenty million shares of Tesla stock. There is a big
caveat here. Tesla has to reach an eight point five
trillion dollar market value that's almost five times higher than
it is today.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I mean, we're talking about this at a time when
Elon Musk is in fact on track to becoming the
world's first trillionaire, with a one trillion dollar Tesla compensation
plan approved recently. What implications do you think does this
potential trillionaire.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Status have for that global wealth distribution.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, well, Elon Musk would be about halfway there on
the current figures, which show him on the Forbes list
as four hundred and sixty six billion dollars net worth today,
and that fluctuates today and it might be different again
by the time this podcast goes to air. But Forbes
(09:13):
says that he lost seventeen billion dollars yesterday and it
will go up again tomorrow and maybe down next week
and up again, because this is bouncing around with the
value of the Tesla stock price and whatever crypto assets
and other things are involved in that net worth. And
to put that in perspective, the like the national deficit
(09:38):
of the New Zealand government as six point seven billion
New Zealand dollars, which would be less than four billion US,
which means that Elon Musk lost about four times more
than that just yesterday on the stock market. And we'll
make it again next week and then it will be
(09:58):
bouncing around. But the long term trend is yeah, going
up by hundreds of billions of dollars. And in twenty
twenty four we estimated that there would be a trillionaire
within ten years looking at the figures from twenty twenty three,
and the latest report from this year is estimating five
(10:21):
trillionaires within a decade. So that's the trend that we're on.
We're on track for an ever smaller number of people
to control an ever larger proportion of the world's wealth,
comparable to half of humanity. And the consequences for that
(10:44):
for our economy are ever greater instability, and for our
political system is an ever greater concentration of power and influence.
And you see that especially in the United States, but
also in other countries. And one of the reasons I
pick on the United States is not just the levels
(11:07):
of inequality and the number of billionaires there, but it's
also a sign of how we can make a difference
to the influence of billionaires. Because you know, anyone who
follows US political news will know that the Citizens United
decision that removed caps on donations to political candidates and
(11:29):
political action committees was and calling that donation a kind
of free speech, that removed the limits that had been
in place on billionaire in corporate power to influence elections.
You see some hopeful signs of candidates who pleedged not
(11:50):
to take money from those kinds of big donors. Or packs.
But here in A and zelland we do have limits
on political donations, and we need to keep up that
kind of scrutiny. So it's not a foregone conclusion that
billionaires and corporations should control our political system. We can
(12:14):
regulate that and rain that in. And I'd actually go
a bit further and say, it's not a foregone conclusion
that these extremes of wealth, these individuals and increasingly monopolistic
corporations should control our economy.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Either.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
We can and should make democratic decisions about the structure
and the incentives of our economy so that everyone has
the chance for success in their own lives, and that
that's success, that that's not sacrificed to the really useless
measures of success of this vast accumulation of wealth.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
I'd say, if you have money, it would be great
to use it for good things and maybe give it
to some people that need it. And love you all,
but there's a few people in here that have a
lot more money than me. And uh, if you're a billionaire,
(13:16):
why are you a billionaire? No hate, but yeah, give
your money away. Shortie's love you guys, thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
This extraordinary Billie Eilish will be donating proceeds from her
Hit Me Hard and Soft tour to support organizations, projects
and voices dedicated food equity, climate justice, reducing carbon pollution,
and combating the climate crisis. That donation, ladies and gentlemen,
will be eleven point five million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Looking into billionaire wealth and the wealth inequality around the world,
I've heard this term ethical billionaire, but I suppose that'll
become ethical trillionaire in a decade's time. But what is
this idea of an ethical billionaire?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Well, I'd be tempted to say it's an oxymoron, but
that's a bit too easy because it's it's not really
fair or particularly useful to blame the individuals for winning
a rigged game. And so I'd say, what's really unethical
is the economic system that we've allowed to create these
(14:27):
extremes of wealth. And so if we're looking for ethics,
then I think that's the first question is what kinds
of regulations do we want to put in place to
spread the wealth more evenly and to avoid the extremes
that we're seeing. But to answer the question, I think
that the really the only way to be if one
(14:52):
found oneself in the position of being a billionaire. The
only ethical way to cope with that situation, I think
would be to put in place a plan to not
be a billionaire anymore and more. Billionaires could start by
paying their fair share of taxes. You could simply give
that instruction to your accountant to comply with the regulations,
(15:16):
but also to support as as many wealthy individuals do,
actually support a tightening of loopholes so that they do
pay their fair share. And then there's the question of philanthropy,
and so someone who does have more money than they
(15:37):
need and after paying their fair share of taxes can
and should look to do good with that money and
distribute to causes that have a broader social benefit. But
there's no compulsion on billionaires to do that, and I
(15:58):
think we have to be a bit skeptical about where
any billionaire today is fulfilling their ethical obligations to society.
The one example that's sometimes used of a billionaire who
did do what I'm saying of giving up a large
share of their wealth was the late Chuck Feenie, an
(16:20):
Irish American billionaire who made his money on duty free stores.
I think, and without publicizing or trumpeting. This actually confidentially
transferred his wealth into a charitable trust, but which over
the course of the next decade gave away the majority
(16:43):
of his wealth. And what was important about that is
that that was the mission of the charitable trust, and
it was wound up in twenty twenty having given away
billions of dollars. And when Chuck Feenie he died, he
was no longer a billionaire. He was very comfortable as
a multi millionaire living his best life, but he had
(17:06):
given away enough money to no longer be a billionaire.
And there are examples of other billionaires today who seemed
to be on that track. Mackenzie Scott, who's a successful author,
co founder of Amazon, and was married for a long
time to Jeff Bezos, helping raise their children and contributing
(17:31):
to the wealth that they generated as a family. But
since they divorced, Mackenzie Scott has been on quite a
different track from Jeff Bezos and has been giving away
a substantial portion of her wealth through no strings attached,
direct grants to working charities. And that's a big difference
(17:55):
from the billionaires that you see putting money into their
own directly or family controlled foundations. Which is really another
way of holding wealth, and they do trickle that money
out to other nonprofits and charities, but in the meantime
they are using their foundations to prop up their reputations
(18:17):
and their influence and their lifestyles as well.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, that was going to be my question actually about
how you know, because philanthropic ventures tend to be something
that only very very rich people do. The rest of
us call it donations or you know, monthly sign up
to you know, give to a donotion.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
But in terms of I mean, what do you think defines.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
What is actually philanthropic or what is a money making
venture or a public PPR move Basically, I mean, I'm,
for one, I'm skeptical of whenever I see a massive
one of those novelty checks.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, I work for ox Van, which is one of
the non profits who benefit from philanthropic donations, and we're
certainly grateful to everyone who gives, whether that's a small
regular donation which is most of our income, up to
those wealthy individuals and families who have done well and
(19:23):
want to give something back. The criticism that I was
making earlier of the typical billionaire style is very different
to any of that it's establishing one's own private you know,
closely held foundations to concentrate wealth and call it charity.
(19:47):
And I'm referencing there really a recent report by the
Institute of Policy Studies in the US that looked at
the Giving Pledge, which was a philanthropic initiative in two
thousand ten by Bill Gates and Warren Buffett and others
where they pledged to give away the majority of their
wealth during their lifetimes or by the time of their death.
(20:11):
And looking at that, criticism of the closely held foundation
is one of the main ones of that report. The
story of Chuck Feenie I also got from that report,
and the criticism being that no other billionaire, with the
exception perhaps of Mackenzie Scott and others who seemed to
be on that track, no other billionaire is making that
(20:34):
commitment to no longer be a billionaire. And they even
looked at the twenty two pledgers who had died since
twenty ten and found that only eight of those had
fulfilled their pledge to give away the majority of their wealth.
And of course, for many billionaires giving the majority of
(20:56):
their wealth, they would still be billionaires. There are recommendations
in the report, including that the tax system be revised
to capture more effectively the public share of this large
accumulated wealth, including to look again at the tax exemptions
(21:20):
that are given for these privately held foundations. And then
there are recommendations for billionaires who do want to fulfill
their pledge, who do want to try to be an
ethical billionaire. But from Oxfad, I think we would put
the emphasis on the tax system, on the democratic ways
(21:44):
in which we need to reign in excessive wealth and
really take back the public share that we have all
contributed to this wealth, you know, through our work, through
our work not just working for billionaires, but working all
their corporations, but working to maintain the economy and the
(22:07):
infrastructure that allows them to generate wealth. And it's great
that wealth is being generated, but let's share it more
fairly among everyone who contributes to it. And really that's
all of us. So billionaires can be billionaires, I suppose,
but we should all be benefiting from the accumulation of wealth.
(22:32):
The society gets richer, we should be seeing those benefits
spread more evenly as well.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Thanks for joining us, Nick, Thanks thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(23:07):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The New Zealand Herald. While the world ponders whether.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Being a billionaire is ethical in these challenging times, another
potential dilemma has arisen trillionaires. Tesla founder Elon Musk is
on track to becoming the world's first trillion dollar man,
and it comes at a time when billionaire wealth has
surged three times faster last year than the year before,
(00:41):
while the number of people living in poverty has barely
changed since nineteen ninety. Today on the front page, ox
vam Altieroa's Climate Justice League, Nick Henry is with.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Us to discuss whether ethical billionaires are even a thing and.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
How we might be able to address wealth inequality. Right next,
So let's talk money. What are oxfam's latest figures on
billionaire wealth.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah? Well, OXFAM International producers a report Global Inequality Report
every January, and that coincides with the global meeting at
Davos in Switzerland out of the World Economic Forum, where
a lot of billionaires are in attendance and the focus
is on the megawealthy at that ski resort in Switzerland.
(01:37):
And so we really try to draw attention to the
excesses of wealth and the inequality that that's creating in
the world, compared to really the stagnation of progress for
not just the poorest, but the majority of people in
the world who have not seen their wealth substantially increase.
(02:01):
While the wealth of billionaires is trending upwards at times
it seems like an exponential increase.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, I mean, billionaire wealth surged by two trillion dollars
last year.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
According to this report. How does that compare to us?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Suppose the rest of us, the majority of the world,
have not seen an increase in their wealth.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And the only reason that we're not going backwards entirely
is the progress made by countries like China in reducing
absolute poverty. But even in China you have growing inequality.
In India you have growing inequality as the majority of
the wealth is captured by a growing number of billionaires,
(02:54):
and wealth inequality is growing even faster than income inequality.
The majority of people, and I think the majority of
New Zealanders could relate to this, find it pretty hard
to save more than a small buffer week to week,
So the majority of people, it's a bit of an
American expression, But you'd say a living paycheck to paycheck.
(03:16):
While the billionaires are really stacking cash at a faster
rate that they can, then they can spend it at
a faster rate that they are willing to give it away.
Their wealth is growing faster than they even seem to
know what to do with it. I think the rest
of us would have some pretty good ideas about what
to do with some of that wealth. Collectively, and bearing
(03:40):
in mind that if billionaires paid their fair share of
taxes like there, like what an ordinary person reading the
tax code would think that they should be paying, they
would still be living an unimaginable luxury. As multi billionaires
or as you know, multi multi millionaires, their lifestyles are
(04:03):
not really a threat. What needs to be rained in
is the level of power and influence, disproportionate influence over
the economy and the political system, This accumulation of essentially
useless wealth.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
You mentioned billionaires, and do it having more money than
what they know what to do with. I was just
having a conversation in the newsroom that a million dollars
used to be an aspiration, you know, becoming a millionaire.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But you'd be hard pressed to find an apartment or
even a two bedroom home in Auckland for undred a
million dollars these days. How many more billionaires are we
looking at?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, just on that first point, I think in New
Zealand dollars, to be a millionaire is basically to maybe
own your own house in a major city or have
saved for a retirement a million dollars. I was just
looking at the figures on a household median income, So
(05:08):
that's the middle New Zealand household. A million dollars is
about fourteen years of income, and of course no one
saves their entire income, but it is fourteen years of
about the middle household income. But of course a billion
dollars is a thousand times that, So that's fourteen thousand
years of the middle household income. And when you put
(05:31):
that in perspective, it's possible to earn a million dollars
just by having you know, maybe two people working sort
of middle income jobs for most of their working lives.
You could earn a million dollars. But it's impossible for
anyone to earn a billion dollars. You're talking at that
(05:54):
point about wealth generated by wealth, wealth generated by a
qum relating the benefits of work that other people are
doing and really disproportionately. So you asked how many new
billionaires we're seeing? So and the last time Oxford produced
(06:14):
our report in January this year, we looked at the
twenty twenty four figures up until November twenty twenty four
and found two thousand, seven hundred and sixty nine billionaires
in the world. So that was two hundred and four
more than the previous year twenty twenty three, and we
(06:37):
said that that meant nearly four a week new billionaires.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And I just looked this morning at the latest figures
because it is November twenty twenty five, and with the
caveat that this will all be checked by the oxfand
Global team and the methodology will be applied as diligently
as always do for the January report. So without holding
(07:05):
me to that level of scrudiny brutany on my methodology,
just looking at the Forbes Rich List, which is what
we use each year to to find those figures, I
see three twenty two billionaires currently on that Forbes Rich
(07:30):
List as of today, and that's an increase of three
hundred and fifty three from this time last year, which
means more than six new billionaires every week, So that
shows an escalation on the on the previous year.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Well, forty two million Americans are facing the risk of
going hungry amid the longest government shutdown in American history
because of food stamps being put on hold. Tesla's shareholders
just voted to give Elon Musk potential trillion dollar paypack.
That's two hundred and seventy five million dollars per day
over the next ten years. How would you even spend that?
This comes after Musk reportedly threatened to walk away from
(08:13):
the company if they refused his raise. The payment will
be in the form of more than four hundred and
twenty million shares of Tesla stock. There is a big
caveat here. Tesla has to reach an eight point five
trillion dollar market value that's almost five times higher than
it is today.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I mean, we're talking about this at a time when
Elon Musk is in fact on track to becoming the
world's first trillionaire, with a one trillion dollar Tesla compensation
plan approved recently. What implications do you think does this
potential trillionaire.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Status have for that global wealth distribution.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, well, Elon Musk would be about halfway there on
the current figures, which show him on the Forbes list
as four hundred and sixty six billion dollars net worth today,
and that fluctuates today and it might be different again
by the time this podcast goes to air. But Forbes
(09:13):
says that he lost seventeen billion dollars yesterday and it
will go up again tomorrow and maybe down next week
and up again, because this is bouncing around with the
value of the Tesla stock price and whatever crypto assets
and other things are involved in that net worth. And
to put that in perspective, the like the national deficit
(09:38):
of the New Zealand government as six point seven billion
New Zealand dollars, which would be less than four billion US,
which means that Elon Musk lost about four times more
than that just yesterday on the stock market. And we'll
make it again next week and then it will be
(09:58):
bouncing around. But the long term trend is yeah, going
up by hundreds of billions of dollars. And in twenty
twenty four we estimated that there would be a trillionaire
within ten years looking at the figures from twenty twenty three,
and the latest report from this year is estimating five
(10:21):
trillionaires within a decade. So that's the trend that we're on.
We're on track for an ever smaller number of people
to control an ever larger proportion of the world's wealth,
comparable to half of humanity. And the consequences for that
(10:44):
for our economy are ever greater instability, and for our
political system is an ever greater concentration of power and influence.
And you see that especially in the United States, but
also in other countries. And one of the reasons I
pick on the United States is not just the levels
(11:07):
of inequality and the number of billionaires there, but it's
also a sign of how we can make a difference
to the influence of billionaires. Because you know, anyone who
follows US political news will know that the Citizens United
decision that removed caps on donations to political candidates and
(11:29):
political action committees was and calling that donation a kind
of free speech, that removed the limits that had been
in place on billionaire in corporate power to influence elections.
You see some hopeful signs of candidates who pleedged not
(11:50):
to take money from those kinds of big donors. Or packs.
But here in A and zelland we do have limits
on political donations, and we need to keep up that
kind of scrutiny. So it's not a foregone conclusion that
billionaires and corporations should control our political system. We can
(12:14):
regulate that and rain that in. And I'd actually go
a bit further and say, it's not a foregone conclusion
that these extremes of wealth, these individuals and increasingly monopolistic
corporations should control our economy.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Either.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
We can and should make democratic decisions about the structure
and the incentives of our economy so that everyone has
the chance for success in their own lives, and that
that's success, that that's not sacrificed to the really useless
measures of success of this vast accumulation of wealth.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
I'd say, if you have money, it would be great
to use it for good things and maybe give it
to some people that need it. And love you all,
but there's a few people in here that have a
lot more money than me. And uh, if you're a billionaire,
(13:16):
why are you a billionaire? No hate, but yeah, give
your money away. Shortie's love you guys, thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
This extraordinary Billie Eilish will be donating proceeds from her
Hit Me Hard and Soft tour to support organizations, projects
and voices dedicated food equity, climate justice, reducing carbon pollution,
and combating the climate crisis. That donation, ladies and gentlemen,
will be eleven point five million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Looking into billionaire wealth and the wealth inequality around the world,
I've heard this term ethical billionaire, but I suppose that'll
become ethical trillionaire in a decade's time. But what is
this idea of an ethical billionaire?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Well, I'd be tempted to say it's an oxymoron, but
that's a bit too easy because it's it's not really
fair or particularly useful to blame the individuals for winning
a rigged game. And so I'd say, what's really unethical
is the economic system that we've allowed to create these
(14:27):
extremes of wealth. And so if we're looking for ethics,
then I think that's the first question is what kinds
of regulations do we want to put in place to
spread the wealth more evenly and to avoid the extremes
that we're seeing. But to answer the question, I think
that the really the only way to be if one
(14:52):
found oneself in the position of being a billionaire. The
only ethical way to cope with that situation, I think
would be to put in place a plan to not
be a billionaire anymore and more. Billionaires could start by
paying their fair share of taxes. You could simply give
that instruction to your accountant to comply with the regulations,
(15:16):
but also to support as as many wealthy individuals do,
actually support a tightening of loopholes so that they do
pay their fair share. And then there's the question of philanthropy,
and so someone who does have more money than they
(15:37):
need and after paying their fair share of taxes can
and should look to do good with that money and
distribute to causes that have a broader social benefit. But
there's no compulsion on billionaires to do that, and I
(15:58):
think we have to be a bit skeptical about where
any billionaire today is fulfilling their ethical obligations to society.
The one example that's sometimes used of a billionaire who
did do what I'm saying of giving up a large
share of their wealth was the late Chuck Feenie, an
(16:20):
Irish American billionaire who made his money on duty free stores.
I think, and without publicizing or trumpeting. This actually confidentially
transferred his wealth into a charitable trust, but which over
the course of the next decade gave away the majority
(16:43):
of his wealth. And what was important about that is
that that was the mission of the charitable trust, and
it was wound up in twenty twenty having given away
billions of dollars. And when Chuck Feenie he died, he
was no longer a billionaire. He was very comfortable as
a multi millionaire living his best life, but he had
(17:06):
given away enough money to no longer be a billionaire.
And there are examples of other billionaires today who seemed
to be on that track. Mackenzie Scott, who's a successful author,
co founder of Amazon, and was married for a long
time to Jeff Bezos, helping raise their children and contributing
(17:31):
to the wealth that they generated as a family. But
since they divorced, Mackenzie Scott has been on quite a
different track from Jeff Bezos and has been giving away
a substantial portion of her wealth through no strings attached,
direct grants to working charities. And that's a big difference
(17:55):
from the billionaires that you see putting money into their
own directly or family controlled foundations. Which is really another
way of holding wealth, and they do trickle that money
out to other nonprofits and charities, but in the meantime
they are using their foundations to prop up their reputations
(18:17):
and their influence and their lifestyles as well.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, that was going to be my question actually about
how you know, because philanthropic ventures tend to be something
that only very very rich people do. The rest of
us call it donations or you know, monthly sign up
to you know, give to a donotion.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
But in terms of I mean, what do you think defines.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
What is actually philanthropic or what is a money making
venture or a public PPR move Basically, I mean, I'm,
for one, I'm skeptical of whenever I see a massive
one of those novelty checks.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, I work for ox Van, which is one of
the non profits who benefit from philanthropic donations, and we're
certainly grateful to everyone who gives, whether that's a small
regular donation which is most of our income, up to
those wealthy individuals and families who have done well and
(19:23):
want to give something back. The criticism that I was
making earlier of the typical billionaire style is very different
to any of that it's establishing one's own private you know,
closely held foundations to concentrate wealth and call it charity.
(19:47):
And I'm referencing there really a recent report by the
Institute of Policy Studies in the US that looked at
the Giving Pledge, which was a philanthropic initiative in two
thousand ten by Bill Gates and Warren Buffett and others
where they pledged to give away the majority of their
wealth during their lifetimes or by the time of their death.
(20:11):
And looking at that, criticism of the closely held foundation
is one of the main ones of that report. The
story of Chuck Feenie I also got from that report,
and the criticism being that no other billionaire, with the
exception perhaps of Mackenzie Scott and others who seemed to
be on that track, no other billionaire is making that
(20:34):
commitment to no longer be a billionaire. And they even
looked at the twenty two pledgers who had died since
twenty ten and found that only eight of those had
fulfilled their pledge to give away the majority of their wealth.
And of course, for many billionaires giving the majority of
(20:56):
their wealth, they would still be billionaires. There are recommendations
in the report, including that the tax system be revised
to capture more effectively the public share of this large
accumulated wealth, including to look again at the tax exemptions
(21:20):
that are given for these privately held foundations. And then
there are recommendations for billionaires who do want to fulfill
their pledge, who do want to try to be an
ethical billionaire. But from Oxfad, I think we would put
the emphasis on the tax system, on the democratic ways
(21:44):
in which we need to reign in excessive wealth and
really take back the public share that we have all
contributed to this wealth, you know, through our work, through
our work not just working for billionaires, but working all
their corporations, but working to maintain the economy and the
(22:07):
infrastructure that allows them to generate wealth. And it's great
that wealth is being generated, but let's share it more
fairly among everyone who contributes to it. And really that's
all of us. So billionaires can be billionaires, I suppose,
but we should all be benefiting from the accumulation of wealth.
(22:32):
The society gets richer, we should be seeing those benefits
spread more evenly as well.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Thanks for joining us, Nick, Thanks thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(23:07):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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