June 9, 2024 • 17 mins
The parties of the coalition Government were staunch critics of the state of our healthcare system while on the opposite side of the aisle.
Now that they are in charge though, the heat is being put on them to sort out everything from months-long waiting times to see specialists, to gaps in the mental health system.
And most recently, Budget 2024 did not deliver the much-promised funding of 13 new cancer drugs, that has shocked advocates.
Today on The Front Page, Patient Voice Aotearoa chairperson Malcolm Mulholland joins us to discuss the issues facing patients across the country, and what the Government needs to do to improve our healthcare.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Paddy Fox
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The parties
of the coalition government were staunch critics of the state
of our healthcare system while on the opposite side of
the aisle. Now that they're in charge, though, the heat
(00:27):
is being put on them to sort out everything from
months long waiting times to see specialists to gaps in
the mental health system and most recently, Budget twenty twenty
four did not deliver the much promised funding of thirteen
new cancer drugs that are shocked advocates. Today on the
Front Page, Patient Voice Altied, our chairperson Malcolm mulholland joins
(00:50):
us to discuss the issues facing patients across the country
and what the government needs to do to improve our healthcare. Malcolm,
could you start by telling us what Patient Voice alter
It does.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Patient Voice alter Or has had a focus now on
improving medicine access for New Zealand patients since its inception back.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
In twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
We came about as a result of a number of
petitions being presented to Parliament advocating for certain medicines to
be funded, and at the time we thought, well, rather
than just focusing on say those in cancer medicines or
those with a red disorder or chronic illness, why don't
we set up PVA so we can all fight under
the one umbrella. And that's what PVA is and what
(01:40):
we do.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
The Coalition government is still a bit fresh at six
months in the job. Hey, but how would you describe
their efforts in the health sector so far?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I think it's probably fairly slow going.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think people would probably freely admit that the health
sector by and large is in a crisis, whether they
be are waiting times at ED or the struggles in
order to see a GP, or if you're talking about
medicine access. I think there are some urgent actions needed,
especially in.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Terms of health workforce.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think there's probably more we could do on that front,
and certainly in the field that we've been advocating for
around medicine access.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Most recently, Health Minister Shane Ready announced thirty million dollars
for faster access to radiology services. He said, at the moment,
some New Zealanders are having to wait weeks or months
to see a hospital specialist, who then refer them to radiologies.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
In some places, New Zealanders are waiting longer, making additional
payments for scans, for traveling long distances to radiology appointments
at their own cost. I'm pleased to announce that we
are investing thirty million dollars through Health New Zealand to
level up access to X rays, CT scans and diagnostic
ultrasound are cost New Zealand and to ensure that primary
health providers can refer patients directly we're clinically approached rather
(03:00):
than waiting for a specialist assessment.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is cutting out that middleman and allowing GPS to refer
patients the way to go? Do you think?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think it is a better system, and I think
it will see patients not having to wait longer, which
can only be a good thing. I think though, you're
also going to have some problems in terms of the
treating of the patients. It's one to get a diagnosis,
and sure, the more we can speed that up, the better.
But then there's another problem, and that is actually having
(03:29):
the patient in front of a specialist, whether that be
under the knife or doing whatever to fix the problem.
And I think that there's more that needs to be
addressed again in terms of workforce development.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
At the same time, near research out of Otaga Uni
actually shows more kiwis are unable to access specialist care
in a timely way. We know this, but it leaves
GPS to manage complex cases without those extra resources. I guess,
is allowing them to refer to radiology only adding to
their workload.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, it will mean and again I think we run
into that same problem. We just don't have the health
workforce in order to deal with the tsunami of patients
that are currently backed up within the system. And so
you know, it's one to get a faster diagnosis and
that is a good outcome, But the second part of
the equation is having enough specialists on the ground who
(04:20):
can deal with a number of patients who require the attention.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That they do recently.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
As well, the funding needed to supply thirteen new cancer
drugs that National promise before the election won't actually become
available for another year at least.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Is this disappointing to you without a doubt, because it
was very clear in the election and as a part
of their election manifesto that the intention was to fund
those drugs from one July this year, not to have
to wait another year and I sincerely hope that that
is not the case moving forward.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I would hope that you know the amount of protest
that the government has received on the back of their
announcement not to fund thirteen drugs or not to announce
them within the budget. You know, they work at pace
and put patients' minds at ease by saying this is
the time frame and this is the process by which
we're going to fund these standing medicines moving forward.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Osie murdered.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
It was the first medication on their list that they
promised to fund if they were elected into government, and
that's the medication that I desperately need. To promise something
like that for so many desperate and vulnerable people, and
to just not keep their promise as shameful.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Why is it so difficult to get cancer drugs funded
in Altiadora.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think the primary problem is that politicians can't be
seen to be instructing farmatic as to what drugs they
can and cannot fund.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
They're being said.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
This has certainly happened in the past with both sides
of the political spectrum, whether you be talking about a
labor leir government or a national led government. So Beckon
twenty seventeen, for example, Labor campaigned on prep being funded.
What happened, They got elected, the drug got funded. And
certainly you can see a pattern of behavior under the
previous government whereby there were high profile protests happening for
(06:14):
certain drugs to be funded, and then within a relatively
short space of time that drug would come to be funded.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And if we go back even.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Further in time, we can look at the her septum
example under the John Key guvernment.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So both sides are guilty of it. But what I
would say is that this is.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Just simply an outcome, if you like, of a broken system,
of the mere fact that far Mek has been underfunded
now for some time, and so politicians are put in
the position of having to pick winners and losers.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And it seems like it takes a while to go
through that approval process, so much so that when the
drug is funded, we generally hear about another better drug
being funded in say America or Europe or search.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Look, on average, it takes somewhere in the vicinity of
seven years for a drug to be funded in New Zealand.
I mean, that's just ridiculously long. We're still the only
country in the world that has a waiting list of
medicines that farmic would like to fund. So these are
drugs that have been through farmas process and systems. I've said, yes,
we believe they're efficacious, Yes we would like to fund
(07:19):
them if the funding permits us to do so.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
What's also missing from that equation, though, that people.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Don't realize is that whilst these drugs are around the
ninety marks, it is ninety or so drugs that are
on this waiting list that they would like to fund.
For over one hundred indications, there's another two hundred and
eighty drugs grinding their way through farmac system right now.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So you know that gives you an idea of the
size of the whole that New Zealand patients are in.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
There is some complexity to both how those medicines are approved,
how they are procured, and the order in which that happens.
But I've spoken to a former health minister and they
say National should never have promised this in the first place,
because essentially, when you name thirteen drugs, it shows your
hand and allows drug companies to milk it.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And Malcolm, I hope you don't mind me bringing this up,
but I guess, in a cruel twist of fate, you
yourself were actually diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago. Hey,
first off, how are you going? And secondly, how was
it going from an advocate to patient? And what did
you learn from having that first hand experience?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I guess what I would say is that my journey
in this battle started with my late wife's diagnosis back
in twenty eighteen, So Wiki, my wife was diagnosed with
advanced breast cancer and we were put in the position
of having to find a lot of money for a
drug that we ended up campaigned for and it was funded,
that drug.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Being Ibrant, And then shortly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
After we lost Wiki, I myself was diagnosed completely out
of the blue, with no symptoms whatsoever, of an aggressive
form of prostate cancer. What that meant for me was
that we had to find about fifty thousand dollars so
I could be seen privately with urgency in order to
have my prostate removed, which is what happened. Nothing can
(09:12):
prepare you for a diagnosis of cancer, and at the
time it was unknown whether or not I had stage
three or stage four, and I knew what each stage
meant because I'd been through our cancer journey with Wiki,
your mind is basically smashed into a million pieces and
you're not sure what to do. You can't even put
(09:34):
your left foot in front of your right foot. So
to have that diagnosis, and then if you're put in
the position of needing an unfunded medicine, to have to
think that part of a journey through, I mean, it's
just just so cruel.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I guess we hear cancer and we just immediately think death.
So but there are drugs out there, aren't there, Malcolm.
We're constantly hearing stories about New Zealanders resorting to crowdfunding
and seeking health treatment overseas and moving to Australia. I
mean you would have heard them all.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, I have, and they don't get any easier to hear.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And one thing I would say is that the number
of stories that I hear about is certainly on the increase.
They're not going away anytime soon. And so I have
met patients. For example, there was a lady he diagnosed
at the same time as my late wife. She managed
to get the drug that we needed, ibrance as their
first line treatment, So that meant that that was the
first drug she was put on. That's the only drug
(10:37):
she's received to date, and she's still.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Living really well up there and flung it a.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I met a person who had self funded a prostate
tenser drug. He lives in Tolonger. He's been on that
drug now for over a decade. So what we are
seeing is a transition for some people from stage four being,
if you like, a death center, towards living with a
disease almost under the banner of being chronic. And so
(11:06):
there is a shift, and that's something that the public
really should understand and appreciate.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And when you and your dear wife went through the system,
what was it like for you, guys, I guess seeing
it from the inside, or was it just a completely
different world because you did go through that private route?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So wiki didn't go through private, she went through public.
And I've got to say that the world of Kncer,
of your life was extremely foreign to us. We had
probably been one of the more fortunate faro in New
Zealand where Kncer I had lost, for example, a cousin
quite some years ago, and I'd lost the odd uncle
and what have you. But you know, it wasn't something
(11:44):
that's fresh in the memory. We had no concept of cancer.
So I can distinctly recall when WICKI was given the
diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer. I didn't know what the
hell that meant, and so they had to bring in a.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Special listners to explain it to us, because of course
you've got the shock.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Of the diagnosis and then having to talk through what
that meant.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What I would say is that with.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
My own experience having gone through private, the contrast is
night and day, especially in terms of the urgency under
which you are treated. So you know, time was a
ticking for me. If I had to left it there
a little bit longer, chances that it would have metestasized
and you'd now be talking to me as a terminally
ill cancer patient. Because I was able to go private,
(12:30):
I was able to go out to Grace Hospital and
total on there. I had robotic surgery, state of the art,
and they removed it with very good margins, which means
hopefully touch wood I won't see the cancer return.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Ever, how do we make that kind of treatment available
to everyone?
Speaker 8 (12:45):
Though?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
We need to increase funding, that's the bottom line. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
We pride ourselves and being part of the developed world,
but when it comes to healthcare, and especially when it
comes to cancer care, we are worlds behind.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And really grapes me when I hear stories of some
of our best and.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Brightest oncologists saying, you know, if I'm a senior oncologist
practicing here in New Zealand and if I'm a starting
oncologist in Australia, a starting oncologist is on the same
wage as a very experienced oncologist here at home.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And so there are so many gaps in the system.
And also the fact that oncologists overseas have access to
modern medicines, whereas here we're playing catch up. We're probably
a decade behind where we should be.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And so because doctors are unable to prescribe those medicines,
they're going offshore. So we also have a brain drain
in that space. And I think these are some of
the obstacles that we have to overcome. We have to
look at this seriously, we have to get a plan
in place, and we have to put the funding where
it matters.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
It's an expensive drug, but it does have far better outcome,
both in survival level and in the quality of life.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
That you get.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
I believe that in Australia a pension that only needs
to pay six dollars fifty a month for this drug.
I'm really disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
What would you like Shane Ready and the other ministers
to know about the pressures on the health system at
the moment and what would you like to see them change.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, I think they have to have an appreciation of
the relief that medicines or better access to medicines can
bring on the health system. There are numerous studies out
there that will show you if you fund a medicine,
that will relief pressure elsewhere in the health system. So
a really good example, it springs to mind, is the
funding of tri cafta those websisted fibrosis. Now, if that
(14:44):
hadn't have been funded, those patients would have required more
hospital care. They certainly would have had to have had
more lung transplants, and that in itself would have cost
a lot more than funding the medicine. Thankfully, for that community,
the medicine was funded and so that's overall savings on
the health system. I think my plea to Shane into
(15:05):
others is please make good on your promise to fund
those thirty medicines. Patients knew that their medicines were on
that list, and they voted accordingly, and I think to
take that away from them at this point in time,
it's just simply cruel and I would say to them also,
please have a view of mine. So New Zealand is
no longer the only country in the developed world that
(15:26):
has a waiting list for modern medicines and fun farmac seriously,
so that we can see other places in the health
system having that pressure alleviated.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And given how many issues there are across the health system,
and of course these thirteen cancer drugs that we're talking
about as well. When Budget twenty twenty four announced eight
billion dollars for health over the next four years, but
then fourteen billion in tax cuts, did that annoy you
at all?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah. Look, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I don't know how many times I've been approached in
the street where as they've said, we're okay paying our
taxes so long we agree with where our taxes are
being spent. So you know, I'd much rather give you
back my tax break if I know that in my
time of need, I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Going to be catered for by the health system.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And some of them did actually touch on the education
system as well. I guess from their point of view,
they see that as the essentials that government should be providing,
and so many a person's come out and said, Hey,
I don't need the extra twenty bucks or whatever it
is in terms of tax breaks. What I need to
know is that that money is going to go towards
(16:32):
medicines or towards a health system, so that we have
a fully functioning health system and so that in my
time of need, I know I.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Can access the medicine that I will need.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, and getting a tax cut won't mean much to
you if you then have to go and give a
little when you get sick, K, that means nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I mean you're looking at the thousands and thousands of
dollars we're in other OECD countries.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know they're able to access it VERA prescriptions. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Thanks for joining us, Malcolm. That's it for this episode
of the Front Page. You can read more about today's
stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co
dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles
with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to
(17:22):
the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts,
and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The parties
of the coalition government were staunch critics of the state
of our healthcare system while on the opposite side of
the aisle. Now that they're in charge, though, the heat
(00:27):
is being put on them to sort out everything from
months long waiting times to see specialists to gaps in
the mental health system and most recently, Budget twenty twenty
four did not deliver the much promised funding of thirteen
new cancer drugs that are shocked advocates. Today on the
Front Page, Patient Voice Altied, our chairperson Malcolm mulholland joins
(00:50):
us to discuss the issues facing patients across the country
and what the government needs to do to improve our healthcare. Malcolm,
could you start by telling us what Patient Voice alter
It does.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Patient Voice alter Or has had a focus now on
improving medicine access for New Zealand patients since its inception back.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
In twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
We came about as a result of a number of
petitions being presented to Parliament advocating for certain medicines to
be funded, and at the time we thought, well, rather
than just focusing on say those in cancer medicines or
those with a red disorder or chronic illness, why don't
we set up PVA so we can all fight under
the one umbrella. And that's what PVA is and what
(01:40):
we do.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
The Coalition government is still a bit fresh at six
months in the job. Hey, but how would you describe
their efforts in the health sector so far?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I think it's probably fairly slow going.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think people would probably freely admit that the health
sector by and large is in a crisis, whether they
be are waiting times at ED or the struggles in
order to see a GP, or if you're talking about
medicine access. I think there are some urgent actions needed,
especially in.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Terms of health workforce.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think there's probably more we could do on that front,
and certainly in the field that we've been advocating for
around medicine access.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Most recently, Health Minister Shane Ready announced thirty million dollars
for faster access to radiology services. He said, at the moment,
some New Zealanders are having to wait weeks or months
to see a hospital specialist, who then refer them to radiologies.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
In some places, New Zealanders are waiting longer, making additional
payments for scans, for traveling long distances to radiology appointments
at their own cost. I'm pleased to announce that we
are investing thirty million dollars through Health New Zealand to
level up access to X rays, CT scans and diagnostic
ultrasound are cost New Zealand and to ensure that primary
health providers can refer patients directly we're clinically approached rather
(03:00):
than waiting for a specialist assessment.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is cutting out that middleman and allowing GPS to refer
patients the way to go? Do you think?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think it is a better system, and I think
it will see patients not having to wait longer, which
can only be a good thing. I think though, you're
also going to have some problems in terms of the
treating of the patients. It's one to get a diagnosis,
and sure, the more we can speed that up, the better.
But then there's another problem, and that is actually having
(03:29):
the patient in front of a specialist, whether that be
under the knife or doing whatever to fix the problem.
And I think that there's more that needs to be
addressed again in terms of workforce development.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
At the same time, near research out of Otaga Uni
actually shows more kiwis are unable to access specialist care
in a timely way. We know this, but it leaves
GPS to manage complex cases without those extra resources. I guess,
is allowing them to refer to radiology only adding to
their workload.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, it will mean and again I think we run
into that same problem. We just don't have the health
workforce in order to deal with the tsunami of patients
that are currently backed up within the system. And so
you know, it's one to get a faster diagnosis and
that is a good outcome, But the second part of
the equation is having enough specialists on the ground who
(04:20):
can deal with a number of patients who require the attention.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That they do recently.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
As well, the funding needed to supply thirteen new cancer
drugs that National promise before the election won't actually become
available for another year at least.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Is this disappointing to you without a doubt, because it
was very clear in the election and as a part
of their election manifesto that the intention was to fund
those drugs from one July this year, not to have
to wait another year and I sincerely hope that that
is not the case moving forward.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I would hope that you know the amount of protest
that the government has received on the back of their
announcement not to fund thirteen drugs or not to announce
them within the budget. You know, they work at pace
and put patients' minds at ease by saying this is
the time frame and this is the process by which
we're going to fund these standing medicines moving forward.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Osie murdered.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
It was the first medication on their list that they
promised to fund if they were elected into government, and
that's the medication that I desperately need. To promise something
like that for so many desperate and vulnerable people, and
to just not keep their promise as shameful.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Why is it so difficult to get cancer drugs funded
in Altiadora.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think the primary problem is that politicians can't be
seen to be instructing farmatic as to what drugs they
can and cannot fund.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
They're being said.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
This has certainly happened in the past with both sides
of the political spectrum, whether you be talking about a
labor leir government or a national led government. So Beckon
twenty seventeen, for example, Labor campaigned on prep being funded.
What happened, They got elected, the drug got funded. And
certainly you can see a pattern of behavior under the
previous government whereby there were high profile protests happening for
(06:14):
certain drugs to be funded, and then within a relatively
short space of time that drug would come to be funded.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
And if we go back even.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Further in time, we can look at the her septum
example under the John Key guvernment.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So both sides are guilty of it. But what I
would say is that this is.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Just simply an outcome, if you like, of a broken system,
of the mere fact that far Mek has been underfunded
now for some time, and so politicians are put in
the position of having to pick winners and losers.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And it seems like it takes a while to go
through that approval process, so much so that when the
drug is funded, we generally hear about another better drug
being funded in say America or Europe or search.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Look, on average, it takes somewhere in the vicinity of
seven years for a drug to be funded in New Zealand.
I mean, that's just ridiculously long. We're still the only
country in the world that has a waiting list of
medicines that farmic would like to fund. So these are
drugs that have been through farmas process and systems. I've said, yes,
we believe they're efficacious, Yes we would like to fund
(07:19):
them if the funding permits us to do so.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
What's also missing from that equation, though, that people.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Don't realize is that whilst these drugs are around the
ninety marks, it is ninety or so drugs that are
on this waiting list that they would like to fund.
For over one hundred indications, there's another two hundred and
eighty drugs grinding their way through farmac system right now.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So you know that gives you an idea of the
size of the whole that New Zealand patients are in.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
There is some complexity to both how those medicines are approved,
how they are procured, and the order in which that happens.
But I've spoken to a former health minister and they
say National should never have promised this in the first place,
because essentially, when you name thirteen drugs, it shows your
hand and allows drug companies to milk it.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And Malcolm, I hope you don't mind me bringing this up,
but I guess, in a cruel twist of fate, you
yourself were actually diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago. Hey,
first off, how are you going? And secondly, how was
it going from an advocate to patient? And what did
you learn from having that first hand experience?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I guess what I would say is that my journey
in this battle started with my late wife's diagnosis back
in twenty eighteen, So Wiki, my wife was diagnosed with
advanced breast cancer and we were put in the position
of having to find a lot of money for a
drug that we ended up campaigned for and it was funded,
that drug.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Being Ibrant, And then shortly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
After we lost Wiki, I myself was diagnosed completely out
of the blue, with no symptoms whatsoever, of an aggressive
form of prostate cancer. What that meant for me was
that we had to find about fifty thousand dollars so
I could be seen privately with urgency in order to
have my prostate removed, which is what happened. Nothing can
(09:12):
prepare you for a diagnosis of cancer, and at the
time it was unknown whether or not I had stage
three or stage four, and I knew what each stage
meant because I'd been through our cancer journey with Wiki,
your mind is basically smashed into a million pieces and
you're not sure what to do. You can't even put
(09:34):
your left foot in front of your right foot. So
to have that diagnosis, and then if you're put in
the position of needing an unfunded medicine, to have to
think that part of a journey through, I mean, it's
just just so cruel.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I guess we hear cancer and we just immediately think death.
So but there are drugs out there, aren't there, Malcolm.
We're constantly hearing stories about New Zealanders resorting to crowdfunding
and seeking health treatment overseas and moving to Australia. I
mean you would have heard them all.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, I have, and they don't get any easier to hear.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And one thing I would say is that the number
of stories that I hear about is certainly on the increase.
They're not going away anytime soon. And so I have
met patients. For example, there was a lady he diagnosed
at the same time as my late wife. She managed
to get the drug that we needed, ibrance as their
first line treatment, So that meant that that was the
first drug she was put on. That's the only drug
(10:37):
she's received to date, and she's still.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Living really well up there and flung it a.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I met a person who had self funded a prostate
tenser drug. He lives in Tolonger. He's been on that
drug now for over a decade. So what we are
seeing is a transition for some people from stage four being,
if you like, a death center, towards living with a
disease almost under the banner of being chronic. And so
(11:06):
there is a shift, and that's something that the public
really should understand and appreciate.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And when you and your dear wife went through the system,
what was it like for you, guys, I guess seeing
it from the inside, or was it just a completely
different world because you did go through that private route?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So wiki didn't go through private, she went through public.
And I've got to say that the world of Kncer,
of your life was extremely foreign to us. We had
probably been one of the more fortunate faro in New
Zealand where Kncer I had lost, for example, a cousin
quite some years ago, and I'd lost the odd uncle
and what have you. But you know, it wasn't something
(11:44):
that's fresh in the memory. We had no concept of cancer.
So I can distinctly recall when WICKI was given the
diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer. I didn't know what the
hell that meant, and so they had to bring in a.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Special listners to explain it to us, because of course
you've got the shock.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Of the diagnosis and then having to talk through what
that meant.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What I would say is that with.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
My own experience having gone through private, the contrast is
night and day, especially in terms of the urgency under
which you are treated. So you know, time was a
ticking for me. If I had to left it there
a little bit longer, chances that it would have metestasized
and you'd now be talking to me as a terminally
ill cancer patient. Because I was able to go private,
(12:30):
I was able to go out to Grace Hospital and
total on there. I had robotic surgery, state of the art,
and they removed it with very good margins, which means
hopefully touch wood I won't see the cancer return.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Ever, how do we make that kind of treatment available
to everyone?
Speaker 8 (12:45):
Though?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
We need to increase funding, that's the bottom line. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
We pride ourselves and being part of the developed world,
but when it comes to healthcare, and especially when it
comes to cancer care, we are worlds behind.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And really grapes me when I hear stories of some
of our best and.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Brightest oncologists saying, you know, if I'm a senior oncologist
practicing here in New Zealand and if I'm a starting
oncologist in Australia, a starting oncologist is on the same
wage as a very experienced oncologist here at home.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And so there are so many gaps in the system.
And also the fact that oncologists overseas have access to
modern medicines, whereas here we're playing catch up. We're probably
a decade behind where we should be.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And so because doctors are unable to prescribe those medicines,
they're going offshore. So we also have a brain drain
in that space. And I think these are some of
the obstacles that we have to overcome. We have to
look at this seriously, we have to get a plan
in place, and we have to put the funding where
it matters.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
It's an expensive drug, but it does have far better outcome,
both in survival level and in the quality of life.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
That you get.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
I believe that in Australia a pension that only needs
to pay six dollars fifty a month for this drug.
I'm really disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
What would you like Shane Ready and the other ministers
to know about the pressures on the health system at
the moment and what would you like to see them change.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, I think they have to have an appreciation of
the relief that medicines or better access to medicines can
bring on the health system. There are numerous studies out
there that will show you if you fund a medicine,
that will relief pressure elsewhere in the health system. So
a really good example, it springs to mind, is the
funding of tri cafta those websisted fibrosis. Now, if that
(14:44):
hadn't have been funded, those patients would have required more
hospital care. They certainly would have had to have had
more lung transplants, and that in itself would have cost
a lot more than funding the medicine. Thankfully, for that community,
the medicine was funded and so that's overall savings on
the health system. I think my plea to Shane into
(15:05):
others is please make good on your promise to fund
those thirty medicines. Patients knew that their medicines were on
that list, and they voted accordingly, and I think to
take that away from them at this point in time,
it's just simply cruel and I would say to them also,
please have a view of mine. So New Zealand is
no longer the only country in the developed world that
(15:26):
has a waiting list for modern medicines and fun farmac seriously,
so that we can see other places in the health
system having that pressure alleviated.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And given how many issues there are across the health system,
and of course these thirteen cancer drugs that we're talking
about as well. When Budget twenty twenty four announced eight
billion dollars for health over the next four years, but
then fourteen billion in tax cuts, did that annoy you
at all?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah. Look, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I don't know how many times I've been approached in
the street where as they've said, we're okay paying our
taxes so long we agree with where our taxes are
being spent. So you know, I'd much rather give you
back my tax break if I know that in my
time of need, I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Going to be catered for by the health system.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And some of them did actually touch on the education
system as well. I guess from their point of view,
they see that as the essentials that government should be providing,
and so many a person's come out and said, Hey,
I don't need the extra twenty bucks or whatever it
is in terms of tax breaks. What I need to
know is that that money is going to go towards
(16:32):
medicines or towards a health system, so that we have
a fully functioning health system and so that in my
time of need, I know I.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Can access the medicine that I will need.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, and getting a tax cut won't mean much to
you if you then have to go and give a
little when you get sick, K, that means nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I mean you're looking at the thousands and thousands of
dollars we're in other OECD countries.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know they're able to access it VERA prescriptions. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Thanks for joining us, Malcolm. That's it for this episode
of the Front Page. You can read more about today's
stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co
dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles
with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to
(17:22):
the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts,
and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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