March 26, 2025 • 17 mins
New figures have revealed the assets of our ten biggest iwi stands at $8.2 billion.
A recent report from consultancy firm TDB Advisory shows the assets only rose by $100m in the last three years, a slightly better return than 2023 – as the economic turmoil over the last five years continues to have an impact on their investments.
Covering everything from property, to farming, to managed funds and offshore opportunities, many of these iwi own assets that have an impact on our day-to-day lives, so how do they compare to some of our biggest investment firms?
To explain where iwis have their money, today on The Front Page, TDB Advisory director Phil Barry is with us to dive into this report.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New figures
have revealed the assets of our ten biggest EWI stands
at eight point two billion dollars. A recent report from
consultancy firm TDB Advisory shows the assets only rose by
(00:30):
one hundred million dollars in the last three years as
the economic turmoil over the last five years continues to
have an impact on their investments, covering everything from property
to farming, to managed funds and offshore opportunities. Many of
these EWE owned assets have an impact on our day
to day lives. So how do they compare to some
(00:52):
of our biggest investment firms. To explain where ewei's have
their money today on the Front Page, TDB Advisory director
Phil Barriers with us to dive into this report. So
I think a lot of people remain uncertain how all
(01:13):
these ewis have made so much money. I suppose obviously
there have been treaty settlements over the last few decades,
but how has that led to them owning so much
land and making so much money.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, the entities we look at are called the post
settlement EWI entities, and so some of the big ones
like Nati Fatu Iraqi, Nightitahu, why can I Taynoi? They
settled with the crown, And in fact, in total there's
been about one hundred EWI settled with the crown since
the mid nineteen nineties. The settlements, if you had them
(01:47):
all up, are added to about three point five billion
dollars just in the dollars of the day when the
settlements were made. And our best instrument is those assets
now are worth around twelve billion dollar. So in a way,
it's the magic of compound interests. If you like, you know,
you just reinvest the profits. They've paid out some dividends,
but have tended to take a long term view, and
(02:08):
just over time those assets have grown as property values
have increased, as share prices have increased, just as I say,
the magic of compounding.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So what are these investment reports and why are they done?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
We will have been lucky enough to work with several
of the larger ews over time and working with them
on their investment strategies and financial strategies. And so we've
been TDB Advisory, where independent strategic advisors, financial economic advisors.
We just saw a demand out there for a bit
of an independent review of the ewe's. Three things we
(02:44):
look at. We look at their organizational structure, we look
at their investment strategies, and we look at their financial performance.
We've been doing this pro bono for I think close
to ten years now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Which ewe's are a part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Typically the largest one, so we think we focus on
the top ten if you like. Those ten probably account
for about eight billion of assets of the twelve billion
in total, so around two thirds.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What are some of the assets owned by our biggest eweys.
What are the industries where you can see the most investment.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, not surprisingly a lot of it is the land,
the fenoa, okay, and so it's the commercial property. Like
we take an few examples y Katto Taiinui, a lot
of investment in downtown Hamilton, the new ACC building for example,
some of the hotels, the Ibis, the no Hotels, half
(03:41):
share on the Auckland Pullman at the airport, other Nati
Fatuiraki of course Auckland centric downtown Auckland, some very important
ground leases there. Normally, we though have also diversified more
and have quite a lot of their holdings now in
what we call financial assets, so typically shares or bonds
(04:03):
and managed funds so and some of those could be
offshore or they are offshore. Yeah, if we look at
for example, Touhoi in the two are Awra, you're a Weerra,
they have just over half of their assets in these
financial assets currently. Nati Pero also some of the sort
of shares so different e wee, different strategies and yeah,
(04:23):
just interesting to see how it's going over time.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
People on this house talking about mary Len. No, Mary Len.
It was all mary Land confiscated, confiscated under the New
Zealand Settlements Act in eighteen sixty three, and then they're
talking about the settlements process where mary only get one
percent of its total due Mary still only have the
(04:49):
resources that they'regain because the government continues to make its
money and it's profit of stolen Mali resources and assets.
And then they wonder why body don't want to lose
the four percent that it's still hes.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So what was the movement in twenty twenty four The
headline figure is only a one hundred million dollar rise
since twenty twenty two, but that still sounds pretty impressive
to a club like me, How does that compare to
previous performances.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, Look, it's been a tough couple of years for
EE and for investors generally in the New Zealand economy.
So I think those twenty two and twenty three twenty
four years probably three of the worse than the last
ten years. On average, over the last ten years, the
year we've achieved a five percent return twenty four in
twenty twenty four it fell to about three percent. Actually,
(05:48):
that's not bad compared to the returns that were available
to most investors in the New Zealand economy. We calculated
what we call a benchmark index, that's weights according to
the sectors the EE investor, and that benchmark in twenty
twenty four was a negative five percent return, primarily because
property prices fell. That nz X Real Estate Institute fell
(06:10):
by about seven percent, and the other big sector where
the e WE invest in is primary sector and that
index fell by around four percent. So you know, it's
been tough. Fortunately, as I mentioned, many of the ere
we are now more diversified. Typically they have around five
or six asset classes, and that diversification can help shield
you from those cyclical downturns. In any one sector. So
(06:32):
for example, twenty twenty four was a great year for
global securities. Not so good at the moment given all
the term oil, of course, but in twenty twenty four
the S and P five hundred New York rose by
about twenty percent in US dollar terms, even more in
New Zealand dollar terms because of the depreciation of the
New Zealand dollar, and EWE who were in those investments
(06:54):
like Knight Tahoo, like out A, Taiinui Tuhoi managed to
achieve actually pretty good returns into for overall seven percent
returns typically for those.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Three which EWE is the richest or has the most assets.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
In terms of total assets, actually waking At Taui have
sort of risen to the top and in the most
last most recent couple of years, if you measured in
terms of net assets per member, which if you know
we're a key we saver investor, that's probably the measure
you'd use. You look at the number of members of
each EWI. You know, at one extreme you have Puui
(07:28):
with about one hundred and twenty thousand members, hasn't settled
yet with the crown, so it doesn't have a very
much in the way of asset, it's still one hundred million,
but not a lot per member. On the other hand,
you've got nty five two Iraqi, which is a very
small EWI and very wealthy, so their assets per member
are around twenty thousand dollars At the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think, what are some of the factors that are
limiting the growth of their assets and the return that
they're getting.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, like any investors, it's not easy to consistently year
in a year out make positive returns. If you look
at Naho for example, had done very well in over
the decade, but last couple of years it's it struggled.
It's net worth has gone down by about twelve percent.
(08:26):
Total assets fallen by about eight percent. So debt is
at the same time as assets have been falling, debt
has risen somewhat, not not to overstate it, but there
has been an increase. Why. They obviously hit by COVID,
like most investors more recently, the property downturn, high interest
rates ocr last year, you know, at around five percent
(08:49):
the official cash rate. They're also quite heavily in the
tourism market. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Much about the subject, but I think Nightaho I think tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, it's not a big part of the portfolio actually,
but it's a high profile shot over jet everybody knows
that whale watch Kaikura tourism numbers, you know, have not
rebounded in the way they have been many countries around
the world. They've rebounded, but not back to pre COVID
levels yet. So just you know, those operational things do matter.
Keep in control of operational expenses. Administration expenses are important,
(09:20):
and you know some of the EWI facing challenges there.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How do the EWIS fare as asset managers? How would
you rate their performance compared to some of our banks
or publicly listed companies.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, as I say, if you look at the long
term picture, and I think that's the shouldn't be influenced
by short term sixicality. But over the last ten years,
benchmark return has been about five point seven percent per annum,
the EWI on average about five percent, so close almost
almost fully match it. Now break it down a bit.
(09:52):
Four of the EWI that we have the data for
for the eight we have data, four have exceeded that benchmark,
achieving bridge returns of around seven to eight percent. So
that's the ro Kawas, the ninety five two Iraqis and
the two big ones Tainui and Naitahu. Four of them
have done worse than the benchmark over that long term,
(10:15):
achieving returns of around three to four and a half percent.
So still positive, but yeah, it should be you'd like
to see some better returns.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
There are there any disparities between the ewi's in terms
of how much they make. It seems like the ones
with more of an urban property portfolio tend to fare better.
Is that fair?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It depends, is the answer, And it depends in particular
which years you're looking at. So ninety five two Iraqi,
you know, ninety seven percent of its assets in aucan property,
so sort of high risk strategy, but also has been
high return as they rode the organ property bone last
two years. Though a bit of a come back come
(10:56):
back to earth, a bit of a reality check. The
interesting ones also, as I said, the two Eastern North
Island EWI two Hoy and Nadi Pero, who've chosen to
invest more and manage funds about half of their assets. Again,
there's been some psyclicality, but last year too Hoy did
very well. It's even a seven percent return overall bounce
(11:17):
back from its previous year, which was pretty poor. Nadi
Perot's been to me a bit surprisingly week. It's financial
returns only around three percent per annum over the ten
years on average, and even last year when global share
markets boomed, as I said that twenty percent increase, they
haven't reported strong returns even in that year. It's a
(11:40):
bit of a puzzle to me how to ewe's.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I mean, I suppose that it would be different for
each EWI, but how do they generally decide what to
invest in? Is it a vote amongst members or do
they have a board?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah? Yeah, no, good, good question. It's they normally do
have a and this is the structural question that we
look at. Typically, the EUI set up two separate entities,
often is multiple, but keep it simple. They have one
enderity that focuses on the commercial management generating the money
(12:13):
if you like. And then on the other side there
are the ones that spend the money that have the
social and educational goals. So those commercial ones the ones
who decide where where the money is invested commercially. They
typically have a board of some tribal appointed members and
some independent members with hopefully with good strong investment expertise. Yeah,
(12:36):
and that separation of roles actually, I think is very important.
It ensures better accountability, better ability to measure performance. It's
a little bit like what the government Central Government does
with its stayed on enterprises, where you have the soees
set up with the primary objective of making the money
and then you have the msds and the education who
(12:56):
spend the money.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Last year, as part of the heralds Fanua project, we
heard a lot about how the EWI assets today still
pale in comparison to what the ewe's owned presettlement. We
spoke on this podcast with Nati Fatua Araki Trust's deputy
chair Narimo Blair.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Today we called the Nati pat but that's really a
reflection of we lost all of the control of all
of that area, the fishing circuits and the hunting circuits
for birds, and it was we were whittled away down
to one called of an Acre, which was all we
had left at ak which is our name today. But
I don't really like that name because it really highlights
(13:38):
that we were actually the masters of the holess miss
and not just the Ford of an Acre land that
we had left at Ki.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do you think that it will ever be possible looking
at your reports, for those assets to ever come close
to what they once were.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Look, that's not something we've locked at. We're looking at
the strategy, structures, performance post settlement. Those settlements obviously politically
negotiated process. We just take that as a as a
given and sort of focus on what we're good at,
which is the financial strategy side of things.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Phil, if you had to take a glimpse into your
crystal ball, what do you think the future holds for
EWE assets.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, I'm an optimist. I guess you sort of have
to be. And you know there'll be volatility this year,
huge uncertainties around the global political economy that will impact
all investors and it will impact you know, some of
the EE directly with if they're involved in our exports
to the US, which are mainly beef and wine, some
(14:48):
of the EE you're involved in that. But much more
important is the whole global trading environment. And you know
you've got to ride these hackups and hopefully come out
the other side. I think the E we are have length,
which is they do tend to take a longer term view,
so you know, by nature they understand and will appreciate
that cyclicality. They're also in strong position because they're gearing.
(15:12):
Their debt levels are relatively low, about fifteen percent on average,
So you know that means you have more financial flexibility
too to ride the waves.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
And when these ewe's get a positive return, what do
they generally do with that money? I suppose every EWE
is different as well, but they've got that that decides
how to spend it. Do they put that back into
the community.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Look, that's a good question too, And you know there's
always that trade off between long term aspirations which mean
you sort of reinvest in it in the business, and
the short term demands, you know, for meeting sort of
social and educational needs. As you said, each ee wee
is different. My view is that fortunately most of the
(15:58):
ewe have taken a longer term view. And then now,
you know, if you look at my Tahoo for example,
you know they started out with the settlement of one
hundred and eighty million. They multiplied that by ten to
having you around one point eight billion in assets. Their
dividends when they started out, you know, we're about ten
million per annum. Last year they pay dividends of around
sixty nine million. So you know that longer term, medium
(16:21):
to longer term view in a way means you can
have your cake and eat it. You know, you can
have your assets and pay a higher dividend compared to
if at the start they'd paid out everything in dibdends,
they'd still be at one hundred eighty million assets. Perhaps.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Thanks for joining us, Phil.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Thank you very much, Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front
Page on iHeart Radio or where you get your podcasts,
(17:02):
and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Hyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New figures
have revealed the assets of our ten biggest EWI stands
at eight point two billion dollars. A recent report from
consultancy firm TDB Advisory shows the assets only rose by
(00:30):
one hundred million dollars in the last three years as
the economic turmoil over the last five years continues to
have an impact on their investments, covering everything from property
to farming, to managed funds and offshore opportunities. Many of
these EWE owned assets have an impact on our day
to day lives. So how do they compare to some
(00:52):
of our biggest investment firms. To explain where ewei's have
their money today on the Front Page, TDB Advisory director
Phil Barriers with us to dive into this report. So
I think a lot of people remain uncertain how all
(01:13):
these ewis have made so much money. I suppose obviously
there have been treaty settlements over the last few decades,
but how has that led to them owning so much
land and making so much money.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, the entities we look at are called the post
settlement EWI entities, and so some of the big ones
like Nati Fatu Iraqi, Nightitahu, why can I Taynoi? They
settled with the crown, And in fact, in total there's
been about one hundred EWI settled with the crown since
the mid nineteen nineties. The settlements, if you had them
(01:47):
all up, are added to about three point five billion
dollars just in the dollars of the day when the
settlements were made. And our best instrument is those assets
now are worth around twelve billion dollar. So in a way,
it's the magic of compound interests. If you like, you know,
you just reinvest the profits. They've paid out some dividends,
but have tended to take a long term view, and
(02:08):
just over time those assets have grown as property values
have increased, as share prices have increased, just as I say,
the magic of compounding.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So what are these investment reports and why are they done?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
We will have been lucky enough to work with several
of the larger ews over time and working with them
on their investment strategies and financial strategies. And so we've
been TDB Advisory, where independent strategic advisors, financial economic advisors.
We just saw a demand out there for a bit
of an independent review of the ewe's. Three things we
(02:44):
look at. We look at their organizational structure, we look
at their investment strategies, and we look at their financial performance.
We've been doing this pro bono for I think close
to ten years now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Which ewe's are a part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Typically the largest one, so we think we focus on
the top ten if you like. Those ten probably account
for about eight billion of assets of the twelve billion
in total, so around two thirds.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What are some of the assets owned by our biggest eweys.
What are the industries where you can see the most investment.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, not surprisingly a lot of it is the land,
the fenoa, okay, and so it's the commercial property. Like
we take an few examples y Katto Taiinui, a lot
of investment in downtown Hamilton, the new ACC building for example,
some of the hotels, the Ibis, the no Hotels, half
(03:41):
share on the Auckland Pullman at the airport, other Nati
Fatuiraki of course Auckland centric downtown Auckland, some very important
ground leases there. Normally, we though have also diversified more
and have quite a lot of their holdings now in
what we call financial assets, so typically shares or bonds
(04:03):
and managed funds so and some of those could be
offshore or they are offshore. Yeah, if we look at
for example, Touhoi in the two are Awra, you're a Weerra,
they have just over half of their assets in these
financial assets currently. Nati Pero also some of the sort
of shares so different e wee, different strategies and yeah,
(04:23):
just interesting to see how it's going over time.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
People on this house talking about mary Len. No, Mary Len.
It was all mary Land confiscated, confiscated under the New
Zealand Settlements Act in eighteen sixty three, and then they're
talking about the settlements process where mary only get one
percent of its total due Mary still only have the
(04:49):
resources that they'regain because the government continues to make its
money and it's profit of stolen Mali resources and assets.
And then they wonder why body don't want to lose
the four percent that it's still hes.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So what was the movement in twenty twenty four The
headline figure is only a one hundred million dollar rise
since twenty twenty two, but that still sounds pretty impressive
to a club like me, How does that compare to
previous performances.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, Look, it's been a tough couple of years for
EE and for investors generally in the New Zealand economy.
So I think those twenty two and twenty three twenty
four years probably three of the worse than the last
ten years. On average, over the last ten years, the
year we've achieved a five percent return twenty four in
twenty twenty four it fell to about three percent. Actually,
(05:48):
that's not bad compared to the returns that were available
to most investors in the New Zealand economy. We calculated
what we call a benchmark index, that's weights according to
the sectors the EE investor, and that benchmark in twenty
twenty four was a negative five percent return, primarily because
property prices fell. That nz X Real Estate Institute fell
(06:10):
by about seven percent, and the other big sector where
the e WE invest in is primary sector and that
index fell by around four percent. So you know, it's
been tough. Fortunately, as I mentioned, many of the ere
we are now more diversified. Typically they have around five
or six asset classes, and that diversification can help shield
you from those cyclical downturns. In any one sector. So
(06:32):
for example, twenty twenty four was a great year for
global securities. Not so good at the moment given all
the term oil, of course, but in twenty twenty four
the S and P five hundred New York rose by
about twenty percent in US dollar terms, even more in
New Zealand dollar terms because of the depreciation of the
New Zealand dollar, and EWE who were in those investments
(06:54):
like Knight Tahoo, like out A, Taiinui Tuhoi managed to
achieve actually pretty good returns into for overall seven percent
returns typically for those.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Three which EWE is the richest or has the most assets.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
In terms of total assets, actually waking At Taui have
sort of risen to the top and in the most
last most recent couple of years, if you measured in
terms of net assets per member, which if you know
we're a key we saver investor, that's probably the measure
you'd use. You look at the number of members of
each EWI. You know, at one extreme you have Puui
(07:28):
with about one hundred and twenty thousand members, hasn't settled
yet with the crown, so it doesn't have a very
much in the way of asset, it's still one hundred million,
but not a lot per member. On the other hand,
you've got nty five two Iraqi, which is a very
small EWI and very wealthy, so their assets per member
are around twenty thousand dollars At the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think, what are some of the factors that are
limiting the growth of their assets and the return that
they're getting.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, like any investors, it's not easy to consistently year
in a year out make positive returns. If you look
at Naho for example, had done very well in over
the decade, but last couple of years it's it struggled.
It's net worth has gone down by about twelve percent.
(08:26):
Total assets fallen by about eight percent. So debt is
at the same time as assets have been falling, debt
has risen somewhat, not not to overstate it, but there
has been an increase. Why. They obviously hit by COVID,
like most investors more recently, the property downturn, high interest
rates ocr last year, you know, at around five percent
(08:49):
the official cash rate. They're also quite heavily in the
tourism market. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Much about the subject, but I think Nightaho I think tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, it's not a big part of the portfolio actually,
but it's a high profile shot over jet everybody knows
that whale watch Kaikura tourism numbers, you know, have not
rebounded in the way they have been many countries around
the world. They've rebounded, but not back to pre COVID
levels yet. So just you know, those operational things do matter.
Keep in control of operational expenses. Administration expenses are important,
(09:20):
and you know some of the EWI facing challenges there.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How do the EWIS fare as asset managers? How would
you rate their performance compared to some of our banks
or publicly listed companies.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, as I say, if you look at the long
term picture, and I think that's the shouldn't be influenced
by short term sixicality. But over the last ten years,
benchmark return has been about five point seven percent per annum,
the EWI on average about five percent, so close almost
almost fully match it. Now break it down a bit.
(09:52):
Four of the EWI that we have the data for
for the eight we have data, four have exceeded that benchmark,
achieving bridge returns of around seven to eight percent. So
that's the ro Kawas, the ninety five two Iraqis and
the two big ones Tainui and Naitahu. Four of them
have done worse than the benchmark over that long term,
(10:15):
achieving returns of around three to four and a half percent.
So still positive, but yeah, it should be you'd like
to see some better returns.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
There are there any disparities between the ewi's in terms
of how much they make. It seems like the ones
with more of an urban property portfolio tend to fare better.
Is that fair?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It depends, is the answer, And it depends in particular
which years you're looking at. So ninety five two Iraqi,
you know, ninety seven percent of its assets in aucan property,
so sort of high risk strategy, but also has been
high return as they rode the organ property bone last
two years. Though a bit of a come back come
(10:56):
back to earth, a bit of a reality check. The
interesting ones also, as I said, the two Eastern North
Island EWI two Hoy and Nadi Pero, who've chosen to
invest more and manage funds about half of their assets. Again,
there's been some psyclicality, but last year too Hoy did
very well. It's even a seven percent return overall bounce
(11:17):
back from its previous year, which was pretty poor. Nadi
Perot's been to me a bit surprisingly week. It's financial
returns only around three percent per annum over the ten
years on average, and even last year when global share
markets boomed, as I said that twenty percent increase, they
haven't reported strong returns even in that year. It's a
(11:40):
bit of a puzzle to me how to ewe's.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I mean, I suppose that it would be different for
each EWI, but how do they generally decide what to
invest in? Is it a vote amongst members or do
they have a board?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah? Yeah, no, good, good question. It's they normally do
have a and this is the structural question that we
look at. Typically, the EUI set up two separate entities,
often is multiple, but keep it simple. They have one
enderity that focuses on the commercial management generating the money
(12:13):
if you like. And then on the other side there
are the ones that spend the money that have the
social and educational goals. So those commercial ones the ones
who decide where where the money is invested commercially. They
typically have a board of some tribal appointed members and
some independent members with hopefully with good strong investment expertise. Yeah,
(12:36):
and that separation of roles actually, I think is very important.
It ensures better accountability, better ability to measure performance. It's
a little bit like what the government Central Government does
with its stayed on enterprises, where you have the soees
set up with the primary objective of making the money
and then you have the msds and the education who
(12:56):
spend the money.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Last year, as part of the heralds Fanua project, we
heard a lot about how the EWI assets today still
pale in comparison to what the ewe's owned presettlement. We
spoke on this podcast with Nati Fatua Araki Trust's deputy
chair Narimo Blair.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Today we called the Nati pat but that's really a
reflection of we lost all of the control of all
of that area, the fishing circuits and the hunting circuits
for birds, and it was we were whittled away down
to one called of an Acre, which was all we
had left at ak which is our name today. But
I don't really like that name because it really highlights
(13:38):
that we were actually the masters of the holess miss
and not just the Ford of an Acre land that
we had left at Ki.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do you think that it will ever be possible looking
at your reports, for those assets to ever come close
to what they once were.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Look, that's not something we've locked at. We're looking at
the strategy, structures, performance post settlement. Those settlements obviously politically
negotiated process. We just take that as a as a
given and sort of focus on what we're good at,
which is the financial strategy side of things.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Phil, if you had to take a glimpse into your
crystal ball, what do you think the future holds for
EWE assets.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, I'm an optimist. I guess you sort of have
to be. And you know there'll be volatility this year,
huge uncertainties around the global political economy that will impact
all investors and it will impact you know, some of
the EE directly with if they're involved in our exports
to the US, which are mainly beef and wine, some
(14:48):
of the EE you're involved in that. But much more
important is the whole global trading environment. And you know
you've got to ride these hackups and hopefully come out
the other side. I think the E we are have length,
which is they do tend to take a longer term view,
so you know, by nature they understand and will appreciate
that cyclicality. They're also in strong position because they're gearing.
(15:12):
Their debt levels are relatively low, about fifteen percent on average,
So you know that means you have more financial flexibility
too to ride the waves.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
And when these ewe's get a positive return, what do
they generally do with that money? I suppose every EWE
is different as well, but they've got that that decides
how to spend it. Do they put that back into
the community.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Look, that's a good question too, And you know there's
always that trade off between long term aspirations which mean
you sort of reinvest in it in the business, and
the short term demands, you know, for meeting sort of
social and educational needs. As you said, each ee wee
is different. My view is that fortunately most of the
(15:58):
ewe have taken a longer term view. And then now,
you know, if you look at my Tahoo for example,
you know they started out with the settlement of one
hundred and eighty million. They multiplied that by ten to
having you around one point eight billion in assets. Their
dividends when they started out, you know, we're about ten
million per annum. Last year they pay dividends of around
sixty nine million. So you know that longer term, medium
(16:21):
to longer term view in a way means you can
have your cake and eat it. You know, you can
have your assets and pay a higher dividend compared to
if at the start they'd paid out everything in dibdends,
they'd still be at one hundred eighty million assets. Perhaps.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Thanks for joining us, Phil.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Thank you very much, Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front
Page on iHeart Radio or where you get your podcasts,
(17:02):
and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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