November 10, 2025 • 19 mins
Mark Mitchell has heralded the government’s promise to be tough on crime.
He’s been incredibly clear from the get-go that his primary goal is to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate.
He holds five portfolios: Police, Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery, Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation.
So, how does an MP with so many hats feel about how his government has tackled the big issues?
Today on The Front Page, Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections, and communities.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just a quick note. This interview with Mark Mitchell was
recorded prior to the Tongedito fire Kyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels
and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented
by the New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the
(00:23):
government's promise to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly
clear from the get go that his primary goal is
to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate.
He holds five portfolios Police Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery,
(00:43):
Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an
MP with so many hats feel about how his government
has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page,
Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and community. So
(01:04):
first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Whereabouts are you? I'm a marrying you bay beach.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Marrying your Bay beach and whereabouts? Just right on the
beach there.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And this is is the beach that this is the
when I was a kid, This is.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Where I grew up in that surf club.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know if you can see the surf club yeah, yeah,
that was my surf club, so it's not actually my
electric because I ran had a tie. I was trying
to get back up to my pitch, but I ran
out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit
down of Marrying your Bay Beach and do the podcast
and Chelsea down there.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So Mark, we've seen a scandal this year at the
top of the police chain. There's no denying that. Are
you confident the public still has trust in the New
Zealand Police?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New
Zealand Police because.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Without a doubt we have got a.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
World clast police force, and the size of the organization
that we have, there's always going to be the odd
rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers
are out there every day, you know, with teams of
thousands of postive actions, protecting and supporting their communities, the communites.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That they serve.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And I'd just like to say Chelsea that this week
I've been to two police Awards ceremonies and probably seventy
five percent of the awards that I see handed out
to police officers that have put themselves in danger, saved
the lives of members of the public. When you see
bad behavior from a police officer, there's no one feels
it more deeply than those thousands of both our sworn
(02:38):
and non sworn staff that are out there actually holding
to and you know, the values and ideals of our
New Zealand police. No one feels it more deeply than
them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten or
if we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the
rotten apples nearly got the top police job, always in
contention for the top police job in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I
acknowledge that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All I'd say is that as the incoming police.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Minister, there with quite a few issues that I had
to view with and one of them was this case.
And I'm sorry that I can't talk to the detail
on a Chelsea but it's actually the case. Although there
has been a guilty plea put in, that's still before
the courts for sentencings, so I can't talk to the
case directly.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics.
They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime.
Since June twenty twenty four to May this year, the
fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent
of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government
do more to curb alcohol related crime? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah? I think that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
You know, alcohol and drugs have always been a huge
aggravating factor in terms of the petration and violent crime.
Education has to continue to be a big part of that.
You know, the police are obviously run very effective road
safety programs to make our roads safe.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know, we've driven down the rates.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Of trunk driving significantly, and there's always differently, there's different
things that police are looking at doing and providing.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Device Who's justice.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Officials in terms of how we can continue to make change?
Is that balance other people's right, the responsible drinkers to.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Have access to our coholum and be able.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
To enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible
and public safety?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
New Zealand's prison population you'll be aware as hitting record highs,
is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't
want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd
love to have everyone that lives in our societies and
our communities respect one another and not there or.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Perpetrate violent crime against.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
The people in society that are laura by it. But unfortunately,
as long as humans have been roaming this earth, that
hasn't been the case. And so we've been very clear
as the end couping government that we are prioritizing public
safety that if we have people in our society and
our communities that don't want to stick to the laws,
they want to hurt people, then you know they are
going to end up and they keep assisting in that
(05:19):
sort of behavior, then they are going to end up
in prison in our correction, still, because we want law
a body citizens to feel safe.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on
crime is actually working.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that
we sent into and reduction and victimizations, we've already met that.
In fact, we've exceeded that. And of course you'd have
to look at our response as a government, which includes
increased we've made sentencing much tougher, we have reduced the
discounts that we're allowed from you know, you've seen discounts
(05:55):
of seventy eighty percent we get that at forty percent.
And like I said, just as an incoming government, we
have and as the three parties as a coalition, as
a coalition government have been very clear that we are
prioritizing public safety.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What if it's working too well? I mean we've already
hit the population estimates within about ten nine hundred behind bars.
Will there be more money in the kiddy next year
to address how many people are actually going to prison?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yes, so as of yesterday there is about ten eight
hundred in the prison muster and corrections to an outstanding
job that is literally a daily event and to make
sure that we that everyone is in the right place
and that we're dealing with capacity and rich and do
an outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to
invest into public safety?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Absolutely, because although there was a cost.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Of course incarcerating people and having them in the correction system,
there is a much greater human cost and even the
economic costs to have them out in society, creating with
victims and they have it that they create and the
trail of tears that are often sitting behind that behavior
and that from offending well.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does not
actually reduce reoffending rates. How would you respond to that.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending rates
is when those offenders.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Genuinely want to change. They genuinely want to.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want to embrace and
see what opportunity just for them in this country. They
genuinely want to embrace the training that is offered and
the support that's offered them to come back and reintegrate
with society in a positive way. Ultimately, that is how
your drive change is each individual wanting to make those
(07:40):
changes in their lives and not wanting to make bad
decisions and make allse excuses for those fair decisions.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
All that we can do is.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
A country, in the state is provide them with the
mechanisms be able.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
To do that. And I know that we've got a
big focus.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
In fact, we put seventy million dollars additional money into
rehabilitation programs in our correction services so that we give
the ability of the best fighting charge and when they
do come out, they do make good decision. But ultimately, Chelsea,
it comes down to personal responsibility.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It comes down to each one.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Of those individuals wanting to make change, and until they do,
until they actually want to make change. In my view
and my opinion and my experience, you can throw all
the goodwill, all the programs, and all the investment you
want at those people.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They will not change until they want to.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
As I've said before, gangs are not nice people. Minison Minture,
Minister Goldsmith and I campaigned on cracking down on gangs
and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, and that
is exactly why we have passed the laws. We have
to ban all gang patches and insignia in public places
to empower the police to stop criminal gangs from associating
and communicating with each other, enabling the courts to issue
(08:52):
non consulting orders to gang members, and we're ensuring that
greater weight as given to gang membership at sentencing as well,
enabling the courts to an act even more severe punishments.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually
offered up you know, you were offering up people your
personal phone number to see you know, if you do
want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you.
Has anyone taken.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
You up on that offer?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No? I haven't had any. I guess you're right that
I have.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I've headed out my number two gang members that have
indicated to me that they do want to lead change,
they do want to make change, especially those gang members
with families, so that we've because you know, the most
important thing we can do is break that into generational
gang membership that impacts so negatively on the children that
are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of
(09:40):
course I'm on standby always to help those that genuinely
want to make change, especially those with children.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But the flip side of it is is policemeness.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So I've also been very clear that to help affect
that change, if we have to make it very difficult
to be a game member in New Zealan, to be
part of organized crime, to be part of a group
that inflicts a massive disproportionate with out of palm on
our communities. We're going to continue to do that as well,
and the police are being very effective of doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I've just come from a public meeting right now where
the feedback and the public's been extremely positive and the
frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers
so they can reassert themselves and the public can see
that our police are controlling the streets and not be
in that awful position that we were three years ago
where the gangs. We're controlling the streets where they're coming
(10:35):
out and taking over public places and timidating them from
the public, taking over our provincial towns where they were
shutting down public roads in the public pultn't move Pidston
Gusiness School. You haven't seen here that in the last
two years because the police have been so effective and
putting together gang disruption units and making sure that they're
proactive and using the new gang legislation. You know, it's
(10:57):
a good thing that people don't see gang pictures around
anymore because they're quite silly designed the skier and interiminates people.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for
Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that
you probably haven't been asked about as often as your
your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose, But in that
capacity you condemned the Destiny Church march against foreign religions
that was back in June. It's pretty bone chilling to
(11:26):
see such a display in New Zealand and on our
streets here. Do you think what's happening overseas? And I'm
thinking of those images of you know, Nazis walking down
streets in Melbourne, for example, Do you think that's spilling
over slowly to New Zealand and are you worried?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Well, I've working really hard as Minister if the Community
to fortify itself. There's a company and we've got you know,
we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders
in every single one of our ethnic communities and our
faith and religious leaders that completely bind to.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
The fact that we should always protect what is so.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Fundamentally important to democracy, and that is the freedom protest
and the freedom of speech. But we can do that
in a peaceful and tolerant way. And so a big
part of what I've been doing as Minister of Communities,
it's working across all of our communities, all of our
faith leaders, reinforcing that message around social cohesion, making sure
that we don't see that type of violence start to
(12:25):
wash up on our own shores here in New Zealand.
Be mindful of the fact that we will see that
we've seen so much conflict and the vision around the
world at the moment that we've got to work extra
hard and making sure that if we have a community
and if we have a community in New Zealand that
feels unsafe or is veehicful, that we rep support around
(12:46):
them and do that we can to make sure that
we deal with that as part.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Of this portfolio. And I guess your role as Police
minister as well, have you received any advice from your
Australian counterparts about what the stark rise in this kind
of happening in Victoria.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and
I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out
there a month ago with our.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Permissioner for the for the service of the plan.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Victorian police officers out there, but you can see it
out of the streets.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And of course yes I.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Came out and condemned Brian Tummocky and the Destiny pursh
because they have a right to get out there and
the freedom to protest like everyone does. But that turned
into really what everyone considered was over violence. When you
start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and stabbing them
that scares people, that is actually frightening, and so they
(13:41):
should actually reflect on the way that they are carrying
out those protests. And that applies to any group in
New general. There's a way to be able to get
out there protests, to get your messapacity from without resorting
this sort of over violent acts and the ripping and
burning the flags and trying to scare people.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed.
For example, people who say you should kill Chelsea Daniels.
She's a very bad person and she deserves it. You
probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's that's
my ringtime, all right, that would be wrong and it's
a horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are
(14:27):
legitimate restrictions on speech, But what's not a legitimate restriction
on speech is saying you can't say that because it's
hateful or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings.
Because as soon as you give someone in society the
power to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Do you think there needs to be better laws in
place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech
and what determines hate speech, perhaps because that's a really
tricky area, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's
a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the
reality of it is is.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
That we must protect the freedom to the freet of
a speech in this country because the minute you try.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
To start to unfringe on that, where do you start?
Where He's gone?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
And we all have the right to exercise our free speech.
Destiny Church chose to exercise their right pre speech in
the way that they did, and I chose to exercise
my right to pre speech by coming out condemning what
they did.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolio's
while in governments so far?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Ah, Look, that's that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Look, I'm very proud of the work that we're doing
and the way that our police force has responded to
our new set of priorities when we came into government.
I just think the work they're doing, it's quite still
the outstanding, the anecdotal feedback I get from the public,
the results that we've seen starting to float through. You know,
I'm just so proud of what they're doing. And what
they're achieving emergency men management. You know, I've had nineteen
(16:01):
local States emergency since i'veig Minister. We are making fundamental
change in the way that we look at and approach
these things.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We've had report after report after.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Our national States Emergency highlighting the issues that we need
to change.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We're doing that. We've got an investment being coming through
that back to Cabinet.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
We've got new legislation that will provide us a solid
platform as a country who operates from corrections. Look, without
a doubt, I am so proud of our correction Service.
All of our officers that are either in a directions
facility or out in the community doing community related corrections work.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
With you know, up to twenty five to thirty thousand
people at any one time.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That is such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing
with some of the most violent and difficult people that
we have in society, and there's a tens of thousands
of positive actions every week. My big focus there is WHAT'SIP.
We've been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer
of station.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Doing great work.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
They've launched two products in the last months that to
trials that are going that are very effective.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
The expect to report back on one of those sports
and wreck. You know, that's that's a.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Good I forgot about that one. You've got your juggling
so many hats, Mark, do you sleep, yes, occasionally, so
you must be all over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And I've got a team that's been med the entire
two years and and I could not do them do that,
do it without them, And they there right behind me
the whole time, and they deserve huge recognition and and
and great chief executives and and you know, so you know,
I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling, and it
makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to think,
(17:53):
you've listed out there. We've got police, We've got correction,
we've got the community.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's the Yeah. I mean that they're all just they're
all fantastic agencies.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And you know, I have the privilege of having a
front row seat seen the ten thousands of positive actions.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I get reports every.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Week of the outstanding work that our friction cops is
still is at mounted in prison. A couple of weeks
ago they saved the life of the prisoner. Like I said,
I've been at the recently at the Police awards ceremonies,
and it's and and and Sadly, the only time that
you often hear about Richard or Police are any of
these is when there's a negative story running in the media.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And that's life and I sit that.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But but you know what, there's just so they do
so much positive stuff for us in the country, and
I just think we should be so thankful that that
we got them.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or
do you even have time to think that far ahead?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
No, not, not really because there was so much going on.
They're still we're still doing some major reforms, you know.
I think we start thinking about the election as we
move into next year. But right at the moment, especially
with emergency management. I'll be down to South Orlands for
last week, you know, with the response and then the
recovery is just supportant with the response with rot in
the middle of there.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Thanks for joining us, Mark say, thank you, Chelsea, thank
you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(19:40):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Just a quick note. This interview with Mark Mitchell was
recorded prior to the Tongedito fire Kyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels
and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented
by the New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the
(00:23):
government's promise to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly
clear from the get go that his primary goal is
to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate.
He holds five portfolios Police Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery,
(00:43):
Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an
MP with so many hats feel about how his government
has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page,
Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and community. So
(01:04):
first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Whereabouts are you? I'm a marrying you bay beach.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Marrying your Bay beach and whereabouts? Just right on the
beach there.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And this is is the beach that this is the
when I was a kid, This is.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Where I grew up in that surf club.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know if you can see the surf club yeah, yeah,
that was my surf club, so it's not actually my
electric because I ran had a tie. I was trying
to get back up to my pitch, but I ran
out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit
down of Marrying your Bay Beach and do the podcast
and Chelsea down there.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So Mark, we've seen a scandal this year at the
top of the police chain. There's no denying that. Are
you confident the public still has trust in the New
Zealand Police?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New
Zealand Police because.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Without a doubt we have got a.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
World clast police force, and the size of the organization
that we have, there's always going to be the odd
rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers
are out there every day, you know, with teams of
thousands of postive actions, protecting and supporting their communities, the communites.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That they serve.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And I'd just like to say Chelsea that this week
I've been to two police Awards ceremonies and probably seventy
five percent of the awards that I see handed out
to police officers that have put themselves in danger, saved
the lives of members of the public. When you see
bad behavior from a police officer, there's no one feels
it more deeply than those thousands of both our sworn
(02:38):
and non sworn staff that are out there actually holding
to and you know, the values and ideals of our
New Zealand police. No one feels it more deeply than
them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten or
if we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the
rotten apples nearly got the top police job, always in
contention for the top police job in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I
acknowledge that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All I'd say is that as the incoming police.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Minister, there with quite a few issues that I had
to view with and one of them was this case.
And I'm sorry that I can't talk to the detail
on a Chelsea but it's actually the case. Although there
has been a guilty plea put in, that's still before
the courts for sentencings, so I can't talk to the
case directly.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics.
They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime.
Since June twenty twenty four to May this year, the
fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent
of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government
do more to curb alcohol related crime? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah? I think that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
You know, alcohol and drugs have always been a huge
aggravating factor in terms of the petration and violent crime.
Education has to continue to be a big part of that.
You know, the police are obviously run very effective road
safety programs to make our roads safe.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know, we've driven down the rates.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Of trunk driving significantly, and there's always differently, there's different
things that police are looking at doing and providing.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Device Who's justice.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Officials in terms of how we can continue to make change?
Is that balance other people's right, the responsible drinkers to.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Have access to our coholum and be able.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
To enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible
and public safety?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
New Zealand's prison population you'll be aware as hitting record highs,
is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't
want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd
love to have everyone that lives in our societies and
our communities respect one another and not there or.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Perpetrate violent crime against.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
The people in society that are laura by it. But unfortunately,
as long as humans have been roaming this earth, that
hasn't been the case. And so we've been very clear
as the end couping government that we are prioritizing public
safety that if we have people in our society and
our communities that don't want to stick to the laws,
they want to hurt people, then you know they are
going to end up and they keep assisting in that
(05:19):
sort of behavior, then they are going to end up
in prison in our correction, still, because we want law
a body citizens to feel safe.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on
crime is actually working.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that
we sent into and reduction and victimizations, we've already met that.
In fact, we've exceeded that. And of course you'd have
to look at our response as a government, which includes
increased we've made sentencing much tougher, we have reduced the
discounts that we're allowed from you know, you've seen discounts
(05:55):
of seventy eighty percent we get that at forty percent.
And like I said, just as an incoming government, we
have and as the three parties as a coalition, as
a coalition government have been very clear that we are
prioritizing public safety.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What if it's working too well? I mean we've already
hit the population estimates within about ten nine hundred behind bars.
Will there be more money in the kiddy next year
to address how many people are actually going to prison?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yes, so as of yesterday there is about ten eight
hundred in the prison muster and corrections to an outstanding
job that is literally a daily event and to make
sure that we that everyone is in the right place
and that we're dealing with capacity and rich and do
an outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to
invest into public safety?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Absolutely, because although there was a cost.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Of course incarcerating people and having them in the correction system,
there is a much greater human cost and even the
economic costs to have them out in society, creating with
victims and they have it that they create and the
trail of tears that are often sitting behind that behavior
and that from offending well.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does not
actually reduce reoffending rates. How would you respond to that.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending rates
is when those offenders.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Genuinely want to change. They genuinely want to.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want to embrace and
see what opportunity just for them in this country. They
genuinely want to embrace the training that is offered and
the support that's offered them to come back and reintegrate
with society in a positive way. Ultimately, that is how
your drive change is each individual wanting to make those
(07:40):
changes in their lives and not wanting to make bad
decisions and make allse excuses for those fair decisions.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
All that we can do is.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
A country, in the state is provide them with the
mechanisms be able.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
To do that. And I know that we've got a
big focus.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
In fact, we put seventy million dollars additional money into
rehabilitation programs in our correction services so that we give
the ability of the best fighting charge and when they
do come out, they do make good decision. But ultimately, Chelsea,
it comes down to personal responsibility.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It comes down to each one.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Of those individuals wanting to make change, and until they do,
until they actually want to make change. In my view
and my opinion and my experience, you can throw all
the goodwill, all the programs, and all the investment you
want at those people.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They will not change until they want to.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
As I've said before, gangs are not nice people. Minison Minture,
Minister Goldsmith and I campaigned on cracking down on gangs
and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, and that
is exactly why we have passed the laws. We have
to ban all gang patches and insignia in public places
to empower the police to stop criminal gangs from associating
and communicating with each other, enabling the courts to issue
(08:52):
non consulting orders to gang members, and we're ensuring that
greater weight as given to gang membership at sentencing as well,
enabling the courts to an act even more severe punishments.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually
offered up you know, you were offering up people your
personal phone number to see you know, if you do
want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you.
Has anyone taken.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
You up on that offer?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No? I haven't had any. I guess you're right that
I have.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I've headed out my number two gang members that have
indicated to me that they do want to lead change,
they do want to make change, especially those gang members
with families, so that we've because you know, the most
important thing we can do is break that into generational
gang membership that impacts so negatively on the children that
are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of
(09:40):
course I'm on standby always to help those that genuinely
want to make change, especially those with children.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But the flip side of it is is policemeness.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So I've also been very clear that to help affect
that change, if we have to make it very difficult
to be a game member in New Zealan, to be
part of organized crime, to be part of a group
that inflicts a massive disproportionate with out of palm on
our communities. We're going to continue to do that as well,
and the police are being very effective of doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I've just come from a public meeting right now where
the feedback and the public's been extremely positive and the
frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers
so they can reassert themselves and the public can see
that our police are controlling the streets and not be
in that awful position that we were three years ago
where the gangs. We're controlling the streets where they're coming
(10:35):
out and taking over public places and timidating them from
the public, taking over our provincial towns where they were
shutting down public roads in the public pultn't move Pidston
Gusiness School. You haven't seen here that in the last
two years because the police have been so effective and
putting together gang disruption units and making sure that they're
proactive and using the new gang legislation. You know, it's
(10:57):
a good thing that people don't see gang pictures around
anymore because they're quite silly designed the skier and interiminates people.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for
Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that
you probably haven't been asked about as often as your
your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose, But in that
capacity you condemned the Destiny Church march against foreign religions
that was back in June. It's pretty bone chilling to
(11:26):
see such a display in New Zealand and on our
streets here. Do you think what's happening overseas? And I'm
thinking of those images of you know, Nazis walking down
streets in Melbourne, for example, Do you think that's spilling
over slowly to New Zealand and are you worried?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Well, I've working really hard as Minister if the Community
to fortify itself. There's a company and we've got you know,
we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders
in every single one of our ethnic communities and our
faith and religious leaders that completely bind to.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
The fact that we should always protect what is so.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Fundamentally important to democracy, and that is the freedom protest
and the freedom of speech. But we can do that
in a peaceful and tolerant way. And so a big
part of what I've been doing as Minister of Communities,
it's working across all of our communities, all of our
faith leaders, reinforcing that message around social cohesion, making sure
that we don't see that type of violence start to
(12:25):
wash up on our own shores here in New Zealand.
Be mindful of the fact that we will see that
we've seen so much conflict and the vision around the
world at the moment that we've got to work extra
hard and making sure that if we have a community
and if we have a community in New Zealand that
feels unsafe or is veehicful, that we rep support around
(12:46):
them and do that we can to make sure that
we deal with that as part.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Of this portfolio. And I guess your role as Police
minister as well, have you received any advice from your
Australian counterparts about what the stark rise in this kind
of happening in Victoria.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and
I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out
there a month ago with our.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Permissioner for the for the service of the plan.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Victorian police officers out there, but you can see it
out of the streets.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And of course yes I.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Came out and condemned Brian Tummocky and the Destiny pursh
because they have a right to get out there and
the freedom to protest like everyone does. But that turned
into really what everyone considered was over violence. When you
start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and stabbing them
that scares people, that is actually frightening, and so they
(13:41):
should actually reflect on the way that they are carrying
out those protests. And that applies to any group in
New general. There's a way to be able to get
out there protests, to get your messapacity from without resorting
this sort of over violent acts and the ripping and
burning the flags and trying to scare people.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed.
For example, people who say you should kill Chelsea Daniels.
She's a very bad person and she deserves it. You
probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's that's
my ringtime, all right, that would be wrong and it's
a horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are
(14:27):
legitimate restrictions on speech, But what's not a legitimate restriction
on speech is saying you can't say that because it's
hateful or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings.
Because as soon as you give someone in society the
power to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Do you think there needs to be better laws in
place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech
and what determines hate speech, perhaps because that's a really
tricky area, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's
a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the
reality of it is is.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
That we must protect the freedom to the freet of
a speech in this country because the minute you try.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
To start to unfringe on that, where do you start?
Where He's gone?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
And we all have the right to exercise our free speech.
Destiny Church chose to exercise their right pre speech in
the way that they did, and I chose to exercise
my right to pre speech by coming out condemning what
they did.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolio's
while in governments so far?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Ah, Look, that's that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Look, I'm very proud of the work that we're doing
and the way that our police force has responded to
our new set of priorities when we came into government.
I just think the work they're doing, it's quite still
the outstanding, the anecdotal feedback I get from the public,
the results that we've seen starting to float through. You know,
I'm just so proud of what they're doing. And what
they're achieving emergency men management. You know, I've had nineteen
(16:01):
local States emergency since i'veig Minister. We are making fundamental
change in the way that we look at and approach
these things.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We've had report after report after.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Our national States Emergency highlighting the issues that we need
to change.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We're doing that. We've got an investment being coming through
that back to Cabinet.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
We've got new legislation that will provide us a solid
platform as a country who operates from corrections. Look, without
a doubt, I am so proud of our correction Service.
All of our officers that are either in a directions
facility or out in the community doing community related corrections work.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
With you know, up to twenty five to thirty thousand
people at any one time.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That is such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing
with some of the most violent and difficult people that
we have in society, and there's a tens of thousands
of positive actions every week. My big focus there is WHAT'SIP.
We've been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer
of station.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Doing great work.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
They've launched two products in the last months that to
trials that are going that are very effective.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
The expect to report back on one of those sports
and wreck. You know, that's that's a.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Good I forgot about that one. You've got your juggling
so many hats, Mark, do you sleep, yes, occasionally, so
you must be all over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And I've got a team that's been med the entire
two years and and I could not do them do that,
do it without them, And they there right behind me
the whole time, and they deserve huge recognition and and
and great chief executives and and you know, so you know,
I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling, and it
makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to think,
(17:53):
you've listed out there. We've got police, We've got correction,
we've got the community.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's the Yeah. I mean that they're all just they're
all fantastic agencies.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And you know, I have the privilege of having a
front row seat seen the ten thousands of positive actions.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I get reports every.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Week of the outstanding work that our friction cops is
still is at mounted in prison. A couple of weeks
ago they saved the life of the prisoner. Like I said,
I've been at the recently at the Police awards ceremonies,
and it's and and and Sadly, the only time that
you often hear about Richard or Police are any of
these is when there's a negative story running in the media.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And that's life and I sit that.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But but you know what, there's just so they do
so much positive stuff for us in the country, and
I just think we should be so thankful that that
we got them.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or
do you even have time to think that far ahead?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
No, not, not really because there was so much going on.
They're still we're still doing some major reforms, you know.
I think we start thinking about the election as we
move into next year. But right at the moment, especially
with emergency management. I'll be down to South Orlands for
last week, you know, with the response and then the
recovery is just supportant with the response with rot in
the middle of there.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Thanks for joining us, Mark say, thank you, Chelsea, thank
you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(19:40):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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