September 9, 2024 • 16 mins
Scott Robertson is the most successful coach in Super Rugby history - leading the Crusaders to seven-back-to-back titles.
He is also a firm favourite with the public – and is perhaps the most popular rugby coach we've ever had.
But his transition from the red and blacks to leading the All Blacks hasn't been smooth sailing. The national side has posted three losses from seven matches – their latest being against the Springboks at the weekend.
So what are the issues facing his side? Is there an easy fix – or is this a sign of long-term issues for rugby in this country?
Today on The Front Page, we’re joined by Newstalk ZB’s sports news director Clay Wilson to help us unpack the losses.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Susie Nordqvist
Sound Engineer: Dan Goodwin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Cura. I'm Susann Udquitzt and for Chelsea Daniels. And this
is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the
New Zealand Herald. Scott Robertson is the most successful coach
in Super rugby history, leading the Crusaders to seven back
to back titles. He's also a firm favorite with the public.
(00:28):
It is perhaps the most popular rugby coach we've ever had.
But his transition from the Red and Blacks to leading
the All Blacks hasn't been smooth sailing. The national side
has posted three losses from seven matches, their latest being
against the spring Box at the weekend. So what are
the issues facing his side? Is there an easy fix
(00:49):
or is this a sign of longer term issues for
rugby in this country. Well, today on the Front Page
we are joined by Newstalk zb's sports news director Clay
Wilson to help us unpack the low Clay, what do
you make of the All Blacks result at the weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, it's got to be concerning is probably a strong word,
but at least there's got to be some level of
worry about where the team is that right, A new coach,
a kind of new era after the last year's World Cup,
and they've now lost three of the last four games.
I think the big concern that's come out of that
is that these are games that the All Blacks could
have won, got themselves in positions to win, and haven't
been able to finish those games off. So there's clearly
(01:32):
a part of the big part of the All Blacks
game that they need to fix. And this is a
team that's been so dominant for so long in this sport.
You know, we don't tolerate losses that well when it
comes to this team. So yeah, there's certainly lots to
come out of it. I'm sure lots that we'll get
into about where the team is at and what can
be done going forward.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
As you say, the All Blacks have been so dominant
in the past, is it fair to say they've lost
a little bit of that aura about them now?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I think that is fair to say, But I think
that's happened in the past before. I think sometimes there's
this perception that the All Blacks have been the dominant
team in rugby forever, going all the way back to
when William Webbel has picked the ball up and ran
with it, which to me is just not true. Like
these things come in cycles. And while the All Blacks
have been probably for a lot of people in their
(02:19):
memory more often than not, the dominant team, that hasn't
always been the case. And maybe this is just one
of those periods where now they're not the dominant team.
South Africa are clearly a very good team. Ireland have
been a good team for a while and times have
kind of changed. But yeah, I think they have lost
that aura. And there's an element too for me of
society changing. You know, thirty forty fifty years ago, the
(02:42):
world was different and the All Blacks was such a
huge part of who we were as New Zealanders. There's
so much more to the world now, the digitization of
how life is, social media, all these things, and also
options for sports in this country. So I think all
that contributes to perhaps this aura that the team once
had not quite being what it was. But of course,
(03:03):
when you lose games, if you're a team that's seen
is invincible, then maybe you're not so quite so invincible anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
For your Blacks. And for the first time for your Blacks,
those four.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Straight to the old four, now this is the third
lass and seven matches for the All Blacks, the first
under new coach Robertson. What's he had to say about
these results?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From what I've heard, he's acknowledged that it isn't good enough.
He believes that the team isn't far away and the
results and the performances reflect that. Really, that opinion is
that they've been in positions to win these games that
they've lost and haven't won them. So and also South Africa,
I think it's pretty clean out the best team in
the world. And if you're getting close against the best
team of the world and not playing your best, maybe
(03:56):
that's a sign that you know things aren't so bad.
But the for the All Blacks is winning. We expect
the All Blacks to win every game, and when they don't,
there's clearly something not quite right. So I think he
acknowledges that, and I think he's now coming to grips
with the reality of coaching this team right. He's been
someone who's been floated as a coach for this team
for so long, has had so much success at the
(04:17):
level below, and now it's the reality of doing the
job and that's starting to sink in a bit. So
it'll be very interesting to see how he goes forward
and how the team responds to this position they're in.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We're talking about being proud of all our efforts and
how much care and what we did physically and stuff,
but the Blue Juessey demands the best of us and
then finishing what we've created. So small margins tist fully,
some great things to see, but not the result.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
As you say, Scott Robertson has had so much success
with the Crusaders. How much of a different beast though?
Is it coaching a national site?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, I think he's finding that out now, and that's
not to say he won't go on and successful coach
at this level and a successful coach of this team.
But he had such a long period with the Crusaders
and so much success, but no real international coaching experience.
He coached the junior or Blacks, the New Zealand under
twenty team, but nothing at senior international level, whereas his
(05:17):
predecessor in Foster was an assistant coach for this All
Black team for a long time, so it was embedded
in an international senior men's team environment. Some people might
say it's not that big a step up, but it
really it's different. And when you play a team like
the spring Box at Allis Park or at Newlands like
they did at the weekend, that's when you find out
the difference between playing at Super rugby level and playing
at an international level. So he is clearly a good coach.
(05:41):
He wouldn't have run won seven Super Rugby titles in
a row without being a good coach. But it is
a step up and there's different pressures that come with it.
The game is different at the international level, so perhaps
he's starting to maybe not find that out. I think
he probably is something he expected, but now being able
to deal with it is a different thing. And like
I said, it's going to be very interesting to see
(06:02):
how he goes forward from here now that perhaps might
have known this was one of the scenarios that it
might not have all gone to plan right at the
Star and now he's right in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
As you mentioned, Ian Foster had this international experience that
Scott Robertson didn't. But he had a rocky start to
two losses and one draw in his first seven matches.
He went on to face this immense pressure or backlash
from the public. Do you think Inzidar is concerned by
what's happening given the whole sarget that went on to
replace Foster.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, well this is one of the very interesting parts
of it, right. There was so much support for Robertson
and Zider even had Scott Robertson lined up to replace
Foster before they won that game in Johannesburg in twenty
twenty two. Yeah, I think I think concerned at ends
to a certain extent. These two games come up against Australia.
They'll want to win both those games and that if
(06:49):
they don't, I think then maybe we'll see Well we
won't see it, but I would be surprised if there
isn't some real concern at New Zealand Rugby. There was
so much public support for Scott Robertson, so much goodwill
at New Zealand Rugby to get him into his job,
and now it's not quite going to plan. But like
you said, the same with n Foster. Not everyone starts
out just just winning every game. I'm sure they'll be
talking about it at New Zealand Rugby and probably at
(07:09):
the stage trying to find ways to help him. But yeah,
when you're a company which New Zealand Rugby is or
an organization. It's employed someone who came in with so
much hype and now things aren't quite going to plan.
There's got to be some level of concern when they
sit around the boardroom table. I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He missed. He missed the bus because he missed a
transport to the bus and that was it, and he
apologized to the group. Mostly it was just it was
a misunderstanding. It was simple as that. So I can't
say anymore. The Big Sea did a great job, you know,
I keeping if he's a curfew broken and there's no
(07:47):
care for you. It was just a bus.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Robertson's got a slightly different style to Foster. He didn't
hold Damien McKenzie up to previous standards for missing the
team's bus to the airport, and then assistant coach Lee
On McDonald and Ham parted ways after just five tests.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
They were friends who became rivals, then workmates and now
ex colleagues. Leon McDonald is out as All Black's assistant
coach after just five games following disagreements with Scott Robertson.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
How bad of a look is this on top of
these losses?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I feel like it's more perception than any kind of real,
real impact within the team. It's hard to say these
things like Leo McDonald leaving the coaching team is so
big nowadays, how much impact does that head on the
team losing these last two games since he's gone. Sure,
these things are unsettling, but to me in terms of
the impact of the team on the field, I don't
think it plays a huge part. And then going on
(08:38):
to lose these games. Damien McKenzie, I guess it's just
a different approach to how Scott Robinson wants to handle
these things. But the players these days are they deal
in high pressure environments constantly. That's what their job is.
Things like this, while they might be unsettling for a
few hours or a day or two, these players are
very good at just being able to put that stuff
(08:58):
in the background and focus on what they paid to do,
which is be good rugby players.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
There's become a bit of a pattern here. I've read
some stats that the All Blacks haven't scored a try
in the last quarter for the last four matches. Is
the problem that they're sailing to finish.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
If not the biggest problem, it's one of the biggest
problems this team currently has, like you say, unable to
score points in the last quarter of and that's not
what we've come to know from the All Blacks as
a team. You think about the two World Cups that
they won and that group of players they had. Not
only was it a great starting fifteen, but the All
Blacks were renowned for having this bench that comes on
(09:45):
and just takes away anything from other teams in the
last quarter of games. And now it's South Africa that
has that advantage and the All Blacks are struggling in
that department. And reality is rugby is an eighty minute game.
You can be great for sixty five or seventy minutes,
as the All Blacks were, especially in the fe Test
in South Africa, but if you don't finish the game off,
you're going to lose against other good teams. Because it's
such small margins between these top teams, it is a
(10:08):
massive problem. What do they do about it. They tried
to juggle around their lineup a bit for the weekends
game in Cape Town. That didn't work. So maybe it's
a mentality thing. The players are not quite attuned or
have the confidence in the last part of these games
to be able to go and do it, and that's
not an easy fixer. I mean, I don't know what
the answer is to that, other than continuing to adjust
(10:29):
the lineup. Do they talk about it much? Do they
avoid talking about it? But it clearly is, like I say,
if not the biggest problem, one of the biggest issues
that the team needs to remedy before they're going to
be competitive and be able to get back to winning
games consistently against these top teams.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You spoke previously about how there's so much going on
in the world now there are a lot of options
for sports for kids that perhaps we didn't have in
the day. Is that part of the issue that we
don't have the depth of players coming through now? In part?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Maybe I think it would be true that perhaps the
depth of player isn't quite there, But I still think
New Zealand is essentially a rugby nation at its course
still and the players that are coming through are still
very very good players capable of making this team the
best team in the world at rugby at a junior
level has now been overtaken by the likes of football
(11:17):
and basketball. It's impossible to think that doesn't have an
impact at the final end, right I still think the
players are there to win these kind of games, to
make the All Blecks the kind of dominant team that
they have been for so long. To me something like that,
the impacts of that are perhaps not going to be
seen until a little bit later, if we ever see them.
Right now, it's more an issue about what the team's
doing preps, how they're being coached, maybe to a certain example.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Another interesting result at the weekend when Argentina beats Australia.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Sixty Argentina a record sixty seven to twenty seven thrashing,
scoring fifty points in the second half alone. New Zealand
and Australia for the time being battling it out to
the championship Wooden Spoon. The last time that happened fifteen
years ago. How times have.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Changed, Other teams in countries simply becoming better at rugby
and therefore the margin is closing.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, And I think these are things that also come
about in cycles. Teams aren't always on the same level
at the same time. At the moment we're seeing South
Africa are in a very good patch of their kind
of rugby history, that the team is very good, that
the running World champions they've bet the All Blacks four
times in a row, and like where the All Blacks
a struggling a little bit, the Australian side is struggling
(12:31):
a lot. Argentina has risen. But I think overall, the
competitiveness of the World game it's much more even, it
is closer. Other teams have they caught up probably, yeah,
they have caught up, and the All Blacks have maybe
just plateaued and a team like South Africa has continued
to improve innovate a little bit more perhaps than the
All Blacks have. Yeah, that's I think that's the reality
of how these cycles of a sport goes, is that
(12:53):
sometimes team's going to be dominant, you know, the opposition
are going to catch up and then do you do
you then go to another level or does another team
your mental in at the moments that Africa has taken
that mental the All Blacks once had.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So we haven't become worse as a national side. We've
just placed owed, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I think, so, I think you know, I mean, look
at the position the team's got themselves into in these games,
these last two tests, especially in South Africa against the
World Champions. You don't get yourself in those positions if
you're not a good team. But the margins, like we
spoke about, are so small that if you're not quite
what you used to be, or you're not quite at
the best in the game, you're going to lose in
(13:29):
those last ten to fifteen minutes. And that's what's happening
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Just finally, are there any immediate changes that can be
done to turn things around for this side? Or has
Robertson stumbled into some longer term issues with rugby in
this country and will that take some time to fix?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I think for him now it's maybe about experimenting a
little bit, and that's difficult to say because the team's
been losing and you want to win games. They now
have two tests against Australia and Australia got almost seventy
points put on them over the weekend. Like you mentioned
by Argentina, if you can't win both those games then
that's a real worry. But there has to be something
(14:03):
done in terms of how they rejig the lineup. Do
they go for youth. There's a lot of good, promising
young players coming through in the squad. This is the
first year of a World Cup cycle. If you're going
to give these players opportunities, now is the time to
do it. But of course he's trying to juggle that
with making sure that you don't lose any more games. Yeah,
outside of that, what do you do? There might be
(14:24):
something they can do to help build their confidence in
terms of off the field these losses that have come
because of poor finishes to games. That's got to be
in some part due to where the teams at mentally,
where the confidence levels are at. But what do you
do apart from move a few pieces around and try
and reset and then go again. It's well timed that
they're playing two tests against Australia because like I say,
(14:48):
Australia aren't certainly not at their best at the moment,
and the two games you should win, both in Australia
and here in New Zealand. Then maybe if they can
get a couple of wins under their belt, it's that
confidence that they're that little bit of comp and are
lacking might come back, because then they go on an
interview tour. But I've got five tests that are all
going to be very challenging, and you know you've got
(15:08):
if you have seven tests lists left in the year.
You don't want to lose too many more when you've
already lost three to start the season, do you. So?
Maybe it's just a confidence then getting a couple of
wins against the Wallabies on the board, and then and
then that that might set them, set them away, and
prep Scott Robertson can finally sort of get to momentum
as the new coach of this team.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, let's hope. So thanks for joining us, Clay. That's
it for this episode of the Front Page. You can
read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at
zet Herald dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells Dan Goodwin as a sounder engineer.
I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
(15:51):
or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
for another look behind the headlines.
Cura. I'm Susann Udquitzt and for Chelsea Daniels. And this
is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the
New Zealand Herald. Scott Robertson is the most successful coach
in Super rugby history, leading the Crusaders to seven back
to back titles. He's also a firm favorite with the public.
(00:28):
It is perhaps the most popular rugby coach we've ever had.
But his transition from the Red and Blacks to leading
the All Blacks hasn't been smooth sailing. The national side
has posted three losses from seven matches, their latest being
against the spring Box at the weekend. So what are
the issues facing his side? Is there an easy fix
(00:49):
or is this a sign of longer term issues for
rugby in this country. Well, today on the Front Page
we are joined by Newstalk zb's sports news director Clay
Wilson to help us unpack the low Clay, what do
you make of the All Blacks result at the weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, it's got to be concerning is probably a strong word,
but at least there's got to be some level of
worry about where the team is that right, A new coach,
a kind of new era after the last year's World Cup,
and they've now lost three of the last four games.
I think the big concern that's come out of that
is that these are games that the All Blacks could
have won, got themselves in positions to win, and haven't
been able to finish those games off. So there's clearly
(01:32):
a part of the big part of the All Blacks
game that they need to fix. And this is a
team that's been so dominant for so long in this sport.
You know, we don't tolerate losses that well when it
comes to this team. So yeah, there's certainly lots to
come out of it. I'm sure lots that we'll get
into about where the team is at and what can
be done going forward.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
As you say, the All Blacks have been so dominant
in the past, is it fair to say they've lost
a little bit of that aura about them now?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I think that is fair to say, But I think
that's happened in the past before. I think sometimes there's
this perception that the All Blacks have been the dominant
team in rugby forever, going all the way back to
when William Webbel has picked the ball up and ran
with it, which to me is just not true. Like
these things come in cycles. And while the All Blacks
have been probably for a lot of people in their
(02:19):
memory more often than not, the dominant team, that hasn't
always been the case. And maybe this is just one
of those periods where now they're not the dominant team.
South Africa are clearly a very good team. Ireland have
been a good team for a while and times have
kind of changed. But yeah, I think they have lost
that aura. And there's an element too for me of
society changing. You know, thirty forty fifty years ago, the
(02:42):
world was different and the All Blacks was such a
huge part of who we were as New Zealanders. There's
so much more to the world now, the digitization of
how life is, social media, all these things, and also
options for sports in this country. So I think all
that contributes to perhaps this aura that the team once
had not quite being what it was. But of course,
(03:03):
when you lose games, if you're a team that's seen
is invincible, then maybe you're not so quite so invincible anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
For your Blacks. And for the first time for your Blacks,
those four.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Straight to the old four, now this is the third
lass and seven matches for the All Blacks, the first
under new coach Robertson. What's he had to say about
these results?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From what I've heard, he's acknowledged that it isn't good enough.
He believes that the team isn't far away and the
results and the performances reflect that. Really, that opinion is
that they've been in positions to win these games that
they've lost and haven't won them. So and also South Africa,
I think it's pretty clean out the best team in
the world. And if you're getting close against the best
team of the world and not playing your best, maybe
(03:56):
that's a sign that you know things aren't so bad.
But the for the All Blacks is winning. We expect
the All Blacks to win every game, and when they don't,
there's clearly something not quite right. So I think he
acknowledges that, and I think he's now coming to grips
with the reality of coaching this team right. He's been
someone who's been floated as a coach for this team
for so long, has had so much success at the
(04:17):
level below, and now it's the reality of doing the
job and that's starting to sink in a bit. So
it'll be very interesting to see how he goes forward
and how the team responds to this position they're in.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We're talking about being proud of all our efforts and
how much care and what we did physically and stuff,
but the Blue Juessey demands the best of us and
then finishing what we've created. So small margins tist fully,
some great things to see, but not the result.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
As you say, Scott Robertson has had so much success
with the Crusaders. How much of a different beast though?
Is it coaching a national site?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, I think he's finding that out now, and that's
not to say he won't go on and successful coach
at this level and a successful coach of this team.
But he had such a long period with the Crusaders
and so much success, but no real international coaching experience.
He coached the junior or Blacks, the New Zealand under
twenty team, but nothing at senior international level, whereas his
(05:17):
predecessor in Foster was an assistant coach for this All
Black team for a long time, so it was embedded
in an international senior men's team environment. Some people might
say it's not that big a step up, but it
really it's different. And when you play a team like
the spring Box at Allis Park or at Newlands like
they did at the weekend, that's when you find out
the difference between playing at Super rugby level and playing
at an international level. So he is clearly a good coach.
(05:41):
He wouldn't have run won seven Super Rugby titles in
a row without being a good coach. But it is
a step up and there's different pressures that come with it.
The game is different at the international level, so perhaps
he's starting to maybe not find that out. I think
he probably is something he expected, but now being able
to deal with it is a different thing. And like
I said, it's going to be very interesting to see
(06:02):
how he goes forward from here now that perhaps might
have known this was one of the scenarios that it
might not have all gone to plan right at the
Star and now he's right in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
As you mentioned, Ian Foster had this international experience that
Scott Robertson didn't. But he had a rocky start to
two losses and one draw in his first seven matches.
He went on to face this immense pressure or backlash
from the public. Do you think Inzidar is concerned by
what's happening given the whole sarget that went on to
replace Foster.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, well this is one of the very interesting parts
of it, right. There was so much support for Robertson
and Zider even had Scott Robertson lined up to replace
Foster before they won that game in Johannesburg in twenty
twenty two. Yeah, I think I think concerned at ends
to a certain extent. These two games come up against Australia.
They'll want to win both those games and that if
(06:49):
they don't, I think then maybe we'll see Well we
won't see it, but I would be surprised if there
isn't some real concern at New Zealand Rugby. There was
so much public support for Scott Robertson, so much goodwill
at New Zealand Rugby to get him into his job,
and now it's not quite going to plan. But like
you said, the same with n Foster. Not everyone starts
out just just winning every game. I'm sure they'll be
talking about it at New Zealand Rugby and probably at
(07:09):
the stage trying to find ways to help him. But yeah,
when you're a company which New Zealand Rugby is or
an organization. It's employed someone who came in with so
much hype and now things aren't quite going to plan.
There's got to be some level of concern when they
sit around the boardroom table. I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He missed. He missed the bus because he missed a
transport to the bus and that was it, and he
apologized to the group. Mostly it was just it was
a misunderstanding. It was simple as that. So I can't
say anymore. The Big Sea did a great job, you know,
I keeping if he's a curfew broken and there's no
(07:47):
care for you. It was just a bus.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Robertson's got a slightly different style to Foster. He didn't
hold Damien McKenzie up to previous standards for missing the
team's bus to the airport, and then assistant coach Lee
On McDonald and Ham parted ways after just five tests.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
They were friends who became rivals, then workmates and now
ex colleagues. Leon McDonald is out as All Black's assistant
coach after just five games following disagreements with Scott Robertson.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
How bad of a look is this on top of
these losses?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I feel like it's more perception than any kind of real,
real impact within the team. It's hard to say these
things like Leo McDonald leaving the coaching team is so
big nowadays, how much impact does that head on the
team losing these last two games since he's gone. Sure,
these things are unsettling, but to me in terms of
the impact of the team on the field, I don't
think it plays a huge part. And then going on
(08:38):
to lose these games. Damien McKenzie, I guess it's just
a different approach to how Scott Robinson wants to handle
these things. But the players these days are they deal
in high pressure environments constantly. That's what their job is.
Things like this, while they might be unsettling for a
few hours or a day or two, these players are
very good at just being able to put that stuff
(08:58):
in the background and focus on what they paid to do,
which is be good rugby players.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
There's become a bit of a pattern here. I've read
some stats that the All Blacks haven't scored a try
in the last quarter for the last four matches. Is
the problem that they're sailing to finish.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
If not the biggest problem, it's one of the biggest
problems this team currently has, like you say, unable to
score points in the last quarter of and that's not
what we've come to know from the All Blacks as
a team. You think about the two World Cups that
they won and that group of players they had. Not
only was it a great starting fifteen, but the All
Blacks were renowned for having this bench that comes on
(09:45):
and just takes away anything from other teams in the
last quarter of games. And now it's South Africa that
has that advantage and the All Blacks are struggling in
that department. And reality is rugby is an eighty minute game.
You can be great for sixty five or seventy minutes,
as the All Blacks were, especially in the fe Test
in South Africa, but if you don't finish the game off,
you're going to lose against other good teams. Because it's
such small margins between these top teams, it is a
(10:08):
massive problem. What do they do about it. They tried
to juggle around their lineup a bit for the weekends
game in Cape Town. That didn't work. So maybe it's
a mentality thing. The players are not quite attuned or
have the confidence in the last part of these games
to be able to go and do it, and that's
not an easy fixer. I mean, I don't know what
the answer is to that, other than continuing to adjust
(10:29):
the lineup. Do they talk about it much? Do they
avoid talking about it? But it clearly is, like I say,
if not the biggest problem, one of the biggest issues
that the team needs to remedy before they're going to
be competitive and be able to get back to winning
games consistently against these top teams.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You spoke previously about how there's so much going on
in the world now there are a lot of options
for sports for kids that perhaps we didn't have in
the day. Is that part of the issue that we
don't have the depth of players coming through now? In part?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Maybe I think it would be true that perhaps the
depth of player isn't quite there, But I still think
New Zealand is essentially a rugby nation at its course
still and the players that are coming through are still
very very good players capable of making this team the
best team in the world at rugby at a junior
level has now been overtaken by the likes of football
(11:17):
and basketball. It's impossible to think that doesn't have an
impact at the final end, right I still think the
players are there to win these kind of games, to
make the All Blecks the kind of dominant team that
they have been for so long. To me something like that,
the impacts of that are perhaps not going to be
seen until a little bit later, if we ever see them.
Right now, it's more an issue about what the team's
doing preps, how they're being coached, maybe to a certain example.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Another interesting result at the weekend when Argentina beats Australia.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Sixty Argentina a record sixty seven to twenty seven thrashing,
scoring fifty points in the second half alone. New Zealand
and Australia for the time being battling it out to
the championship Wooden Spoon. The last time that happened fifteen
years ago. How times have.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Changed, Other teams in countries simply becoming better at rugby
and therefore the margin is closing.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, And I think these are things that also come
about in cycles. Teams aren't always on the same level
at the same time. At the moment we're seeing South
Africa are in a very good patch of their kind
of rugby history, that the team is very good, that
the running World champions they've bet the All Blacks four
times in a row, and like where the All Blacks
a struggling a little bit, the Australian side is struggling
(12:31):
a lot. Argentina has risen. But I think overall, the
competitiveness of the World game it's much more even, it
is closer. Other teams have they caught up probably, yeah,
they have caught up, and the All Blacks have maybe
just plateaued and a team like South Africa has continued
to improve innovate a little bit more perhaps than the
All Blacks have. Yeah, that's I think that's the reality
of how these cycles of a sport goes, is that
(12:53):
sometimes team's going to be dominant, you know, the opposition
are going to catch up and then do you do
you then go to another level or does another team
your mental in at the moments that Africa has taken
that mental the All Blacks once had.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So we haven't become worse as a national side. We've
just placed owed, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I think, so, I think you know, I mean, look
at the position the team's got themselves into in these games,
these last two tests, especially in South Africa against the
World Champions. You don't get yourself in those positions if
you're not a good team. But the margins, like we
spoke about, are so small that if you're not quite
what you used to be, or you're not quite at
the best in the game, you're going to lose in
(13:29):
those last ten to fifteen minutes. And that's what's happening
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Just finally, are there any immediate changes that can be
done to turn things around for this side? Or has
Robertson stumbled into some longer term issues with rugby in
this country and will that take some time to fix?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I think for him now it's maybe about experimenting a
little bit, and that's difficult to say because the team's
been losing and you want to win games. They now
have two tests against Australia and Australia got almost seventy
points put on them over the weekend. Like you mentioned
by Argentina, if you can't win both those games then
that's a real worry. But there has to be something
(14:03):
done in terms of how they rejig the lineup. Do
they go for youth. There's a lot of good, promising
young players coming through in the squad. This is the
first year of a World Cup cycle. If you're going
to give these players opportunities, now is the time to
do it. But of course he's trying to juggle that
with making sure that you don't lose any more games. Yeah,
outside of that, what do you do? There might be
(14:24):
something they can do to help build their confidence in
terms of off the field these losses that have come
because of poor finishes to games. That's got to be
in some part due to where the teams at mentally,
where the confidence levels are at. But what do you
do apart from move a few pieces around and try
and reset and then go again. It's well timed that
they're playing two tests against Australia because like I say,
(14:48):
Australia aren't certainly not at their best at the moment,
and the two games you should win, both in Australia
and here in New Zealand. Then maybe if they can
get a couple of wins under their belt, it's that
confidence that they're that little bit of comp and are
lacking might come back, because then they go on an
interview tour. But I've got five tests that are all
going to be very challenging, and you know you've got
(15:08):
if you have seven tests lists left in the year.
You don't want to lose too many more when you've
already lost three to start the season, do you. So?
Maybe it's just a confidence then getting a couple of
wins against the Wallabies on the board, and then and
then that that might set them, set them away, and
prep Scott Robertson can finally sort of get to momentum
as the new coach of this team.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, let's hope. So thanks for joining us, Clay. That's
it for this episode of the Front Page. You can
read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at
zet Herald dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells Dan Goodwin as a sounder engineer.
I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
(15:51):
or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
for another look behind the headlines.
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