September 17, 2024 • 18 mins
New Zealand’s once world-leading education system is in a sorry state.
Huge numbers of Kiwi kids are failing in key areas – with 4 out of 5 Year 8 students behind in maths.
It’s prompted the government to fast-track plans for a new maths curriculum for intermediate students, and it’s tackling the teacher shortage by allowing those who were previously registered to be relievers.
But can these solutions turn around a sector that is understaffed, under-resourced, and feeling burnt out?
Today on The Front Page, we are joined by Dr Nina Hood found of the Education Hub and Clive Jones, deputy chief executive of the Teaching Council to discuss some of the issues facing a sector in crisis.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Susie Nordqvist
Sound Engineer: Paddy Fox
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Susie nord Quitstan for Chelsea Daniels and this is
the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. New Zealand's once world leading education system is
in a sorry state. Huge numbers of Kiwi kids are
failing in key areas, with four out of five year
(00:26):
eight students behind in maths. It's prompted the government to
fast track plans for a new maths curriculum for intermediate
students and is tackling the teacher shortage by allowing those
who are previously registered to be relieveds But can these
solutions turn around a sector that is understaffed, under resourced
(00:47):
and feeling burnt out. Today on the Front Page, we
are joined by doctor Nina Hood, founder of the Education Hub,
and Clive Jones, Deputy Chief Executive of the Teaching Council ALTEDA,
to discuss some of the issues facing sector that's in crisis.
To start this conversation off, Nina, you've spoken with educators
(01:08):
about the struggles they are facing. What are some of
the horror stories you're hearing from the front lines.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So I have had a number of conversations with teachers
and with principles, and I think the feeling across most
of them is a sense of overwhelm at the moment.
And I think it's a sense of overwhelm due to
a number of factors.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So for principles, at.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
The moment, they are faced with a real struggle trying
to find enough teachers and this is particularly acute in
certain regions and in particular subjects at the secondary school level,
and so that's putting a real challenge on them. So,
for instance, one of the stories that principal told me
last week was that she advertised a job and normally
(01:54):
she would have had probably at least six or seven
potential candidates who he could have employed into that job.
This time she had ten applications and only one of
those came from a teacher who was currently in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
All the others were from offshore.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Which just speaks to the immense strain that schools are under.
A number of other things also affecting teachers at the moment.
We've heard lots of stories come out around the challenges
to do with student mental health and well being and
the toll that that's taking on schools. We've heard a
lot also about problematic and challenging behavior among students, students
(02:34):
with growing learning needs that schools are having to cater to.
And this is on top of also a number of
other policy changes that are coming through at the moment
as well that teachers and principles are having to get
their heads around.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Do you have any examples of the overwhelm that teachers
are currently facing.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I do so.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I was speaking to a secondary school principal last week
and he was talking about the fact that the changes
to Level one n CEA are having on her teachers,
and she spoke of the teachers being on their knees
and she had had several really highly experienced teachers, teachers
with at least twenty years of experience, in tears because
(03:17):
they were struggling to get their heads around exactly what
was expected of them and of their students for this
new Level one.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
And I think what the teachers.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Were really feeling was that because they didn't have enough information,
because they didn't have clear expectations, they didn't feel like
they were able to do the best job possible for
their students. And at the end of the day, that's
what teachers want to do. They want to do the
best by their students. They believe in their students, they
(03:47):
want to try and give them the best possible learning experience,
and for these teachers, they didn't feel like they were
able to do that at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Clive speaking to that teacher shortage, how bad has it
got this yet?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Firstly, I think it's important to not that there is
a teaching workforce crisis in New Zealand, but it's been
over a decade in the making. It's not something that
has happened just in the recent past. If you look
at the number of domestic students enrolling in teacher training programs,
that's dropped by fifty one percent between twenty ten and
(04:19):
twenty twenty three, and what that really says is we're
just not producing enough teachers to actually replenish the teaching
workforce without having to take other measures like rely on
overseas trained teachers.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It's probably worth.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Mentioning that in twenty twenty three, we asked teachers how
they were feeling about teaching and the teaching profession, and
they told us, in non certain terms that they were
feeling undermined, undervalued, and underpaid and really unappreciated in terms
of not just paying working conditions, but also acknowledgment in
(04:57):
terms of the importance of the teaching profession to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Clive, Why is teaching not seen as an attractive career now?
Speaker 5 (05:05):
There's no simple answer to that. You know, if you
go back to the seventies, gender stereotypes meant that a
society had different values and a lot of people were
enrolling in teacher training programs because that was expected of females.
And of course that has changed so that part of
our population now has fantastic choices in terms of careers.
(05:25):
But teaching has gone through this process where it's gone
from a relatively high esteem profession in New Zealand to
one where actually, if you ask school leavers what their
dream jobs are, teaching doesn't feature in that list. There's
so much more choice for school leavers these days that
actually did much rather be a doctor, or a musician
(05:46):
or a sports person, and teaching has just fallen off
the list of what people want to do. And I
think part of that is as much as the conversation
is around teaching is really hard and really challenging at
the moment, it's actually not helpful because it puts off
future generations of teachers Nina.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The government has recently announced that former teachers previously registered
can be relievers. Is this welcome news for the sector?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So I've been monitoring some of the feedback from teachers
on this, and I think the overwhelming response from them
is that they're not particularly happy about the situation, and
I think that that speaks to them feeling like this
is an additional move to devalue the profession.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
We really feel like this is just a knee jerk,
stop gap reaction to an issue that we've been raising
for years. I mean, it is literally better than nothing,
but it's like turning the heating on when the room's cold,
but not repairing the broken windows or the holes in
the wall. Students, young people deserve a qualified subject specialist
in front of them who can form those really positive relationships.
(06:49):
You know, we know that students get turned off by
having a different face in front of them every day,
because you know, an unqualified teacher isn't a teacher at
the heart of it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And if I look at it, I can absolutely see
as a short term measure why the government has made
this decision.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
We know that there's a shortage of relievers.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
We've heard a number of instances of schools having to
roster students home because they haven't been able to find
a qualified reliever to be able to be in that
classroom with the students. So we do need something in
the short term to try to address that. But unless,
as Clive talks about, unless we find some sort of
long term solution to the teaching crisis that we have
(07:33):
at the moment, we're never going to be able to
move forward and we're just going to be putting the
issue further down the road.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
What are some of the downsides on relying on teachers
from offshore to plug the teacher shortage in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So what I would say is that there are some
fantastic teachers who have been trained overseas that come into
New Zealand and really make a wonderful impact in the
schools that they're in. But what I would say is
that there is learning journey that teachers from overseas need
to go through when they come into a New Zealand school.
They need to understand the New Zealand curriculum and to
(08:08):
upskill in that area. They probably will need to upscill
in some aspects of pedagogy. They will definitely need to
upscale in terms of their knowledge and understanding of Terreyo Maari,
of Tkuga of Tiao Mai, which are really important parts
of New Zealand's education system.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And so there is going to.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Be a burden on schools who bring in overseas teachers
in having to provide that additional support whilst those.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Teachers get up to speed with the New Zealand context.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Clive, the new coalition government has been pushing through changes
to teaching standards. How are teachers coping with some of
these changes.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I think they're coping wonderfully well, given that they're facing
so many different challenges both inside and outside of the classroom.
At the moment, I just want to pick up the
point that Anina was talking about strong preference that every
child or a young person in a classroom or a
curer or an EC center actually is taught by a
(09:08):
fully registered and certificated teacher. And our mission is about
ensuring that children are safe and they have a high quality,
qualified and experienced teacher in front of them. But there
is also this need to recognize in the short term
that we do have this workforce crisis and that children
will miss out on learning if actually we don't do
(09:29):
some short term things, but it's important that those short
term things don't undermine the value of the teaching profession
in the long term, and we need to find some
solutions to actually encourage more people to train and become
teachers in this country.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Five.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You say teachers aren't feeling valued at the moment, does
it feel a bit like they are bearing some sort
of blame for falling standards among students. Yes, I do.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
And what I've noticed is that the conversation and the
narrative around education seems to have changed in a remarkably
short space of time from recognizing that our education system
is failing some of our kids, so actually now saying, actually,
our teachers are failing our kids. And I don't think
that you could argue that that is the truth. Nothing
(10:23):
could be further from the truth. Our teachers are doing
an amazing job under very challenging circumstances, and they are
not in control of all of the parts of the
system that actually will make the biggest difference to those outcomes.
So they're not in control of things like learning support
for children with learning needs, are not in control of
class sizes, and not in control of the curriculum. But
(10:46):
they're doing a fantastic job in the circumstances that they're
facing at the.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Moment, So essentially they need more resources. That's one of
the things you're saying.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
What teachers tell us is that the top concerns they're
facing a stress in the word workload. Financial compensation is
part of the concerns, but resources and support for them
in the classroom, the number of children that they have
in one space, the amount of resource for children with
learning support needs. It's not just about pay, it's also
(11:15):
about those support resources and leadership to help them face
those challenges that are coming their way in the classroom.
The nature of our learners is changing, the nature of
technology is changing. So there's all these new things coming
teacher's way and they do their very best every day
to actually make the difference for the kids that are
in front of them.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Okay, Nina, looking back to the COVID lockdowns, how has
that impacted the sector?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think we're still seeing the impact of COVID on
young people and on our schools. So for a number
of conversations with teachers, what they are indicating is that
in terms of children's social and emotional development, there are
one to two years.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Behind where they otherwise might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So, for instance, students coming into year nine, the start
of secondary school, many of their social skills, much of
their emotional development is more at an intermediate level. And
so this is obviously putting additional strain onto schools and
onto teachers, and they're having to adapt their programs. They're
having to focus on areas that they previously might not
(12:22):
have had to focus on in quite the same way.
I think what a number of schools are also indicating
is that the COVID lockdowns have also had an impact
on some of the key academic achievement and.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Key academic skills coming through.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so again teachers are having to fill in some
of those gaps that are present in children's learning to
ensure that they can't continue to progress and to succeed
in their education.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Looking to some solutions now, Clive, if the Ministry of
Education hired you to implement some changes to the sector,
what would be your first priority?
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Actually, what it says all the education agencies and teachers
we're all in this together, and we're all working together
to try and improve outcomes for learners. So I wouldn't
take you up on that challenge. As a teaching counsel.
Will continue to focus on strengthening the manner of teaching,
will continue to focus on the safety of learners and
classrooms and the quality of teachers. And that's our contribution
(13:20):
in our joined up education system as it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
In a statement, the Education Minister say she's asked the
ministry to develop a teacher supply strategy as well as
an urgent plan to address the relief teacher shortage. Fifty
three million dollars was invested in teacher training in this
year's budget.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Whilst around enough teachers, we're putting a lot of pressure
and a lot of strain on those good people who are.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Teaching these principles, calling for the government to slow down
the introduction of maths and literacy changes as schools focus
on keeping classes running however they.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Can and Clive, you've heard some innovative ideas around solutions
for the sect. Can you tell us about some of
those yep.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So recently we participated in a teacher supply summit that
was organized were hosted by NZDI, one of the two
big unions. There were a lot of different parties from
within the sector there, as I said, unions and teacher
training providers, ourselves, other education agencies, and we had students
in the room as well. So we came up with
(14:24):
a long list of challenges as you'd expect, but also
started actually mapping out some potential solutions which cover a
range of things across you know, how can we make
actually teaching attractive to the current and future generations because
you know, they're actually in the environment every day. We
should better actually support people to actually see what a
wonderful career and profession teaching is. But also about the
(14:47):
retention of teachers as well, is that you know, those
early stages of a teacher's career, they're still learning on
the job, they're facing a lot of new challenges. So
what can we do to actually help retain those beginning
teachers at a whole higher rate than what's being achieved
at the moment. And then how can we support those
really experienced teachers to actually contribute to our children and
(15:09):
young people at the end of their career and they
might be thinking about, well, maybe it's time to retire.
Maybe there's a model where they can actually transition into
a reliever type role, and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Were there any particular ideas that were brought up in
that workshop you wanted to highlight.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
What we are working on with others is helping to
shape the understanding of the public around what it means
to be a teacher. I think as parents and communities,
we love teachers, we have a high degree of trust
in them, but we really don't understand that not everyone
can be a teacher, and that it's a profession that
requires a high degree of qualifications, skill and experienced teachers
(15:47):
are experts in learning, and I think that's one thing
that in the public view that we don't understand what
it is about teaching. And you see that in a
really extreme kind of case when you think about ECEE,
which and a lot of people think about is paid childcare,
but actually a lot of huge part of a child's
learning and development happens in the ece and having registered
(16:09):
and certificated teachers in front of those children is vital.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is there anything either of you would like to put
out there to those parents who may be listening to this,
who might be concerned about the quality of their children's education.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, I'd say that between the two of us, Clive
and I have highlighted a number of the challenges that
the education system is facing. But in spite of all
of that, we have some absolutely amazing teachers around New Zealand,
and we have some really incredible schools as well, and
I think I am fortunate enough to spend a bit
(16:43):
of time going into schools, and schools are wonderful, vibrant.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Happy places.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So for all the issues and challenges that there are,
and they really do exist, and we do need to
make sure that we've got a plan for addressing them,
but in spite of all of that, there is some
wonderful work that's been done across the sector and many
children are receiving a fantastic education.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
I would also say that we've got amazing teachers in
this country. They are committed people, they're passionate, they're caring.
They're also highly qualified, highly skilled, highly trained experts, and
we might not see the work that they do on
a day to day basis, but they're critically important because
when you think about all of the big problems that
New Zealand is facing in the future, from things like
(17:32):
climate change, an equality to racism to a long list
of big issues, it's actually teachers that are equipping the
current and our future generations to solve those problems. So
teachers have a critical role to play, and they do
an amazing job under challenging conditions every day. But I'm
really optimistic about the future and about the quality of
(17:53):
our teachers.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well put, Nina and Clive, thanks for joining us. That's
it for this episode of The Front Page. You can
read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at
Inset Herald dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills. Patty Fox is a sound engineer.
(18:15):
I'm Susan Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
for another look behind the headlines.
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Susie nord Quitstan for Chelsea Daniels and this is
the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. New Zealand's once world leading education system is
in a sorry state. Huge numbers of Kiwi kids are
failing in key areas, with four out of five year
(00:26):
eight students behind in maths. It's prompted the government to
fast track plans for a new maths curriculum for intermediate
students and is tackling the teacher shortage by allowing those
who are previously registered to be relieveds But can these
solutions turn around a sector that is understaffed, under resourced
(00:47):
and feeling burnt out. Today on the Front Page, we
are joined by doctor Nina Hood, founder of the Education Hub,
and Clive Jones, Deputy Chief Executive of the Teaching Council ALTEDA,
to discuss some of the issues facing sector that's in crisis.
To start this conversation off, Nina, you've spoken with educators
(01:08):
about the struggles they are facing. What are some of
the horror stories you're hearing from the front lines.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So I have had a number of conversations with teachers
and with principles, and I think the feeling across most
of them is a sense of overwhelm at the moment.
And I think it's a sense of overwhelm due to
a number of factors.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So for principles, at.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
The moment, they are faced with a real struggle trying
to find enough teachers and this is particularly acute in
certain regions and in particular subjects at the secondary school level,
and so that's putting a real challenge on them. So,
for instance, one of the stories that principal told me
last week was that she advertised a job and normally
(01:54):
she would have had probably at least six or seven
potential candidates who he could have employed into that job.
This time she had ten applications and only one of
those came from a teacher who was currently in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
All the others were from offshore.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Which just speaks to the immense strain that schools are under.
A number of other things also affecting teachers at the moment.
We've heard lots of stories come out around the challenges
to do with student mental health and well being and
the toll that that's taking on schools. We've heard a
lot also about problematic and challenging behavior among students, students
(02:34):
with growing learning needs that schools are having to cater to.
And this is on top of also a number of
other policy changes that are coming through at the moment
as well that teachers and principles are having to get
their heads around.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Do you have any examples of the overwhelm that teachers
are currently facing.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I do so.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I was speaking to a secondary school principal last week
and he was talking about the fact that the changes
to Level one n CEA are having on her teachers,
and she spoke of the teachers being on their knees
and she had had several really highly experienced teachers, teachers
with at least twenty years of experience, in tears because
(03:17):
they were struggling to get their heads around exactly what
was expected of them and of their students for this
new Level one.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
And I think what the teachers.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Were really feeling was that because they didn't have enough information,
because they didn't have clear expectations, they didn't feel like
they were able to do the best job possible for
their students. And at the end of the day, that's
what teachers want to do. They want to do the
best by their students. They believe in their students, they
(03:47):
want to try and give them the best possible learning experience,
and for these teachers, they didn't feel like they were
able to do that at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Clive speaking to that teacher shortage, how bad has it
got this yet?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Firstly, I think it's important to not that there is
a teaching workforce crisis in New Zealand, but it's been
over a decade in the making. It's not something that
has happened just in the recent past. If you look
at the number of domestic students enrolling in teacher training programs,
that's dropped by fifty one percent between twenty ten and
(04:19):
twenty twenty three, and what that really says is we're
just not producing enough teachers to actually replenish the teaching
workforce without having to take other measures like rely on
overseas trained teachers.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It's probably worth.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Mentioning that in twenty twenty three, we asked teachers how
they were feeling about teaching and the teaching profession, and
they told us, in non certain terms that they were
feeling undermined, undervalued, and underpaid and really unappreciated in terms
of not just paying working conditions, but also acknowledgment in
(04:57):
terms of the importance of the teaching profession to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Clive, Why is teaching not seen as an attractive career now?
Speaker 5 (05:05):
There's no simple answer to that. You know, if you
go back to the seventies, gender stereotypes meant that a
society had different values and a lot of people were
enrolling in teacher training programs because that was expected of females.
And of course that has changed so that part of
our population now has fantastic choices in terms of careers.
(05:25):
But teaching has gone through this process where it's gone
from a relatively high esteem profession in New Zealand to
one where actually, if you ask school leavers what their
dream jobs are, teaching doesn't feature in that list. There's
so much more choice for school leavers these days that
actually did much rather be a doctor, or a musician
(05:46):
or a sports person, and teaching has just fallen off
the list of what people want to do. And I
think part of that is as much as the conversation
is around teaching is really hard and really challenging at
the moment, it's actually not helpful because it puts off
future generations of teachers Nina.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The government has recently announced that former teachers previously registered
can be relievers. Is this welcome news for the sector?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So I've been monitoring some of the feedback from teachers
on this, and I think the overwhelming response from them
is that they're not particularly happy about the situation, and
I think that that speaks to them feeling like this
is an additional move to devalue the profession.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
We really feel like this is just a knee jerk,
stop gap reaction to an issue that we've been raising
for years. I mean, it is literally better than nothing,
but it's like turning the heating on when the room's cold,
but not repairing the broken windows or the holes in
the wall. Students, young people deserve a qualified subject specialist
in front of them who can form those really positive relationships.
(06:49):
You know, we know that students get turned off by
having a different face in front of them every day,
because you know, an unqualified teacher isn't a teacher at
the heart of it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And if I look at it, I can absolutely see
as a short term measure why the government has made
this decision.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
We know that there's a shortage of relievers.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
We've heard a number of instances of schools having to
roster students home because they haven't been able to find
a qualified reliever to be able to be in that
classroom with the students. So we do need something in
the short term to try to address that. But unless,
as Clive talks about, unless we find some sort of
long term solution to the teaching crisis that we have
(07:33):
at the moment, we're never going to be able to
move forward and we're just going to be putting the
issue further down the road.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
What are some of the downsides on relying on teachers
from offshore to plug the teacher shortage in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So what I would say is that there are some
fantastic teachers who have been trained overseas that come into
New Zealand and really make a wonderful impact in the
schools that they're in. But what I would say is
that there is learning journey that teachers from overseas need
to go through when they come into a New Zealand school.
They need to understand the New Zealand curriculum and to
(08:08):
upskill in that area. They probably will need to upscill
in some aspects of pedagogy. They will definitely need to
upscale in terms of their knowledge and understanding of Terreyo Maari,
of Tkuga of Tiao Mai, which are really important parts
of New Zealand's education system.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And so there is going to.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Be a burden on schools who bring in overseas teachers
in having to provide that additional support whilst those.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Teachers get up to speed with the New Zealand context.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Clive, the new coalition government has been pushing through changes
to teaching standards. How are teachers coping with some of
these changes.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I think they're coping wonderfully well, given that they're facing
so many different challenges both inside and outside of the classroom.
At the moment, I just want to pick up the
point that Anina was talking about strong preference that every
child or a young person in a classroom or a
curer or an EC center actually is taught by a
(09:08):
fully registered and certificated teacher. And our mission is about
ensuring that children are safe and they have a high quality,
qualified and experienced teacher in front of them. But there
is also this need to recognize in the short term
that we do have this workforce crisis and that children
will miss out on learning if actually we don't do
(09:29):
some short term things, but it's important that those short
term things don't undermine the value of the teaching profession
in the long term, and we need to find some
solutions to actually encourage more people to train and become
teachers in this country.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Five.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You say teachers aren't feeling valued at the moment, does
it feel a bit like they are bearing some sort
of blame for falling standards among students. Yes, I do.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
And what I've noticed is that the conversation and the
narrative around education seems to have changed in a remarkably
short space of time from recognizing that our education system
is failing some of our kids, so actually now saying, actually,
our teachers are failing our kids. And I don't think
that you could argue that that is the truth. Nothing
(10:23):
could be further from the truth. Our teachers are doing
an amazing job under very challenging circumstances, and they are
not in control of all of the parts of the
system that actually will make the biggest difference to those outcomes.
So they're not in control of things like learning support
for children with learning needs, are not in control of
class sizes, and not in control of the curriculum. But
(10:46):
they're doing a fantastic job in the circumstances that they're
facing at the.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Moment, So essentially they need more resources. That's one of
the things you're saying.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
What teachers tell us is that the top concerns they're
facing a stress in the word workload. Financial compensation is
part of the concerns, but resources and support for them
in the classroom, the number of children that they have
in one space, the amount of resource for children with
learning support needs. It's not just about pay, it's also
(11:15):
about those support resources and leadership to help them face
those challenges that are coming their way in the classroom.
The nature of our learners is changing, the nature of
technology is changing. So there's all these new things coming
teacher's way and they do their very best every day
to actually make the difference for the kids that are
in front of them.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Okay, Nina, looking back to the COVID lockdowns, how has
that impacted the sector?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think we're still seeing the impact of COVID on
young people and on our schools. So for a number
of conversations with teachers, what they are indicating is that
in terms of children's social and emotional development, there are
one to two years.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Behind where they otherwise might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So, for instance, students coming into year nine, the start
of secondary school, many of their social skills, much of
their emotional development is more at an intermediate level. And
so this is obviously putting additional strain onto schools and
onto teachers, and they're having to adapt their programs. They're
having to focus on areas that they previously might not
(12:22):
have had to focus on in quite the same way.
I think what a number of schools are also indicating
is that the COVID lockdowns have also had an impact
on some of the key academic achievement and.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Key academic skills coming through.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so again teachers are having to fill in some
of those gaps that are present in children's learning to
ensure that they can't continue to progress and to succeed
in their education.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Looking to some solutions now, Clive, if the Ministry of
Education hired you to implement some changes to the sector,
what would be your first priority?
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Actually, what it says all the education agencies and teachers
we're all in this together, and we're all working together
to try and improve outcomes for learners. So I wouldn't
take you up on that challenge. As a teaching counsel.
Will continue to focus on strengthening the manner of teaching,
will continue to focus on the safety of learners and
classrooms and the quality of teachers. And that's our contribution
(13:20):
in our joined up education system as it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
In a statement, the Education Minister say she's asked the
ministry to develop a teacher supply strategy as well as
an urgent plan to address the relief teacher shortage. Fifty
three million dollars was invested in teacher training in this
year's budget.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Whilst around enough teachers, we're putting a lot of pressure
and a lot of strain on those good people who are.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Teaching these principles, calling for the government to slow down
the introduction of maths and literacy changes as schools focus
on keeping classes running however they.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Can and Clive, you've heard some innovative ideas around solutions
for the sect. Can you tell us about some of
those yep.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So recently we participated in a teacher supply summit that
was organized were hosted by NZDI, one of the two
big unions. There were a lot of different parties from
within the sector there, as I said, unions and teacher
training providers, ourselves, other education agencies, and we had students
in the room as well. So we came up with
(14:24):
a long list of challenges as you'd expect, but also
started actually mapping out some potential solutions which cover a
range of things across you know, how can we make
actually teaching attractive to the current and future generations because
you know, they're actually in the environment every day. We
should better actually support people to actually see what a
wonderful career and profession teaching is. But also about the
(14:47):
retention of teachers as well, is that you know, those
early stages of a teacher's career, they're still learning on
the job, they're facing a lot of new challenges. So
what can we do to actually help retain those beginning
teachers at a whole higher rate than what's being achieved
at the moment. And then how can we support those
really experienced teachers to actually contribute to our children and
(15:09):
young people at the end of their career and they
might be thinking about, well, maybe it's time to retire.
Maybe there's a model where they can actually transition into
a reliever type role, and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Were there any particular ideas that were brought up in
that workshop you wanted to highlight.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
What we are working on with others is helping to
shape the understanding of the public around what it means
to be a teacher. I think as parents and communities,
we love teachers, we have a high degree of trust
in them, but we really don't understand that not everyone
can be a teacher, and that it's a profession that
requires a high degree of qualifications, skill and experienced teachers
(15:47):
are experts in learning, and I think that's one thing
that in the public view that we don't understand what
it is about teaching. And you see that in a
really extreme kind of case when you think about ECEE,
which and a lot of people think about is paid childcare,
but actually a lot of huge part of a child's
learning and development happens in the ece and having registered
(16:09):
and certificated teachers in front of those children is vital.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is there anything either of you would like to put
out there to those parents who may be listening to this,
who might be concerned about the quality of their children's education.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, I'd say that between the two of us, Clive
and I have highlighted a number of the challenges that
the education system is facing. But in spite of all
of that, we have some absolutely amazing teachers around New Zealand,
and we have some really incredible schools as well, and
I think I am fortunate enough to spend a bit
(16:43):
of time going into schools, and schools are wonderful, vibrant.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Happy places.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So for all the issues and challenges that there are,
and they really do exist, and we do need to
make sure that we've got a plan for addressing them,
but in spite of all of that, there is some
wonderful work that's been done across the sector and many
children are receiving a fantastic education.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
I would also say that we've got amazing teachers in
this country. They are committed people, they're passionate, they're caring.
They're also highly qualified, highly skilled, highly trained experts, and
we might not see the work that they do on
a day to day basis, but they're critically important because
when you think about all of the big problems that
New Zealand is facing in the future, from things like
(17:32):
climate change, an equality to racism to a long list
of big issues, it's actually teachers that are equipping the
current and our future generations to solve those problems. So
teachers have a critical role to play, and they do
an amazing job under challenging conditions every day. But I'm
really optimistic about the future and about the quality of
(17:53):
our teachers.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well put, Nina and Clive, thanks for joining us. That's
it for this episode of The Front Page. You can
read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at
Inset Herald dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills. Patty Fox is a sound engineer.
(18:15):
I'm Susan Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
for another look behind the headlines.
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