September 21, 2025 • 40 mins
The World Health Organisation estimates over a billion people between the ages of 12 and 35 are at high risk of hearing loss due to unsafe habits.
The key cause for the age group is simply listening to music for too long, and too loudly, in headphones or earbuds. Even a movie cinema is likely to have unsafe sound levels.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
It's hard to see how.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh come here?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yes, welcome O Nor welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Now this is the bit where we want your calls
to your participation on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
and text nine two ninety two. Just before we get
cracking on this hour, just looking further ahead for smart money.
After five, we're talking with Hamish Pepper from Harbor Asset
Management about the lower than anticipated gd GDP GDFE GDP
(00:49):
figures and what it means for the o CR where
that's going to go. But right now, welcome to the
Health Hub and today well we're talking broadly speaking about
hearing because the world Health Organizations estimated over a billion
people between the ages of twelve and thirty five are
at high risk of hearing loss due to unsafe habits.
The key cause for this is maybe listening to music
(01:10):
for too long, too loudly, your headphones, your earbuds, even
a movie cinema apparently can have unsafe sound levels, never
mind a concert of course, or a bar. And does
anyone care about how loud their music is or using
ear muffs when you mown in the lawn. I don't
think I ever discovered the MUFS stillism thirties or forties,
I guess anyway, So are we too casual about looking
(01:32):
after our hearing? When did you start to be careful
about safe listening? You give us your cause on eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty or text on nine two
ninety two and joining us. He is an E and
T specialist. Now it's the second time with us on
the health up and we had such a great chat
last time. We thought we'd get him back, and he's
kindly agreed to join us at DTR. Michelle Neith, How
(01:54):
are you, Michelle?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'm very well. Thanks for having me too, Thanks for
coming on.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Hey, Actually, can I just again correct my pronunciation of
your name?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Michelle?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Michelle?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, Michell?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Where's where's it? What's the origin of it? Because is it?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
For instance? No, it's a German name, that's right, southern
southern German name, yeap, not French.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's right. We had that. I think de javeau. I
might of question you about that last time, and I
didn't write it down. So and your so your practice
just again for people who you know, you've been on
once with the show. If you were to introduce yourself
in terms of your particular interest as an E and
T specialist, of course that stands for nose and throat,
but your focus is on hearing and your ear health really,
(02:39):
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah. So I trained as an E and T surgeon
sort of in Auckland and through the College of Surgeons
in Australia and New Zealand and then sub specialized just
in years and skull based surgery in Manchester and then
returned back and have been working just with years or
mainly probably nineteen ninety five percent with years at Auckland
(03:01):
City Hospital and Starship Hospital as well as in private
ever since. And so it's been a couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
What skull based surgery.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That's everything sort of going from the ear inwards and upwards,
you know. So we deal with some of the tumors
that are related to the hearing and balanced nerve as
well as some other tumors related to the middle ear
and sometimes invading the inner ear and behind the ear
as well. So that's what that is.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is it just this is a sort of trivial question,
but are reminded of that song. You know, the hip
bone is connected to the thighbone and all that sort
of thing. Is that one of the challenges of medicine
in a specific area like ear, nose and throat is
sort of knowing when you've reached you've headed down a
path here and maybe this we need to hand it
(03:51):
off to someone else or you know, and I mean
in terms of even just deciding where your area of
interest lies.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean it's we're talking about a little area here,
but it's rather complex with lots of fashion of balanced organ,
hearing organ, and close to the brain. So there's a
lot of collaboration with other subspecialties and other specialties, and
so yeah, I and T is very broad and we
have to you know, work we work with plastic surgeons,
(04:21):
we work with neurosurgeons, or yeah, we worked together and
hand over and assist each other.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
What was the thing that got you interested in it?
Was it the physiology around hearing or was it the
sort of looking at the patient outcome of wanting to
work with people on the hearing? What what was your
sort of lead into that area? Do you know what
I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think you know, at med school. The initial thing
actually was that the E and T group who came
and taught us E and T seemed to seemed to
be very happy, and I thought, that's a happy group,
and so that got my initial interest going. And then
later on when I sort of got interested in this
various subspecialties and tea. At the time or it had
(05:03):
already happened, cochlear implants started going in New Zealand and
there was sort of videos in the department and they
were sort of demonstrating how to do cochlear implants, and
there were a few patients with Copler implants that really
raised my interest in ears. You know, that was quite amazing.
That was the bionic ear. There was no other other
sense where that could be done, and that was really
(05:25):
what interested me a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I guess that, I mean, that must have a
very strong overlap with the neuro side of things, isn't it.
Because it's one thing to create a device that can
help that will capture sound, but linking that into something
that the brain can interpret must be quite a journey.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a surgeon in Toronto
was like me, a Cockler implant surgeon as well, and
he says that he operates on the brain. It's a
bit silly, but I think you know, putting a cochlear
implant into an ear is one thing, but for a child,
it means that they'll develop. You know that it assists
brain development. If you don't stimulate a child that's who's
(06:03):
profoundly deaf, they will not a lot of the parts
of the brain responsible for speech and language. And therefore,
you know, that's his take, you know. So it's important,
very important.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That ties into a question that where I was going
to dig in further down the track, we must well
touch on it now, because I was chatting with my
producer and she was mentioning that there are some doctors
who almost don't who are hesitant to recommend hearing aids
because I don't know why it would be. But is
there are there cases where you don't want to go
(06:35):
too soon to getting a hearing aid because I don't know,
maybe you need to focus on listening skills. I don't know.
Help me out with this one.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No, not really that I think if a hearing aid
is needed, you should always have a hearing aid. But
there may be conditions where the patient can't tolerate a
hearing it it needs a different hearing aid or where
you know, if you have a sudden hearing loss, there
might actually be a recovery with treatment or with time
and others. And there are conditions where you can actually
(07:04):
have an operation and improve their hearing. And as I
just mentioned, you know, sometimes hearing aids are not strong
enough to provide hearing or benefit hearing benefit, and those
patients would better benefit from a cochlear implant. So I
don't think it's a matter of doctors don't do a
hearing a try something else with your hearing loss. There
are proper reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
How casual are we my theory and this is just
as someone in the music business who's been in the
music business with concerts and things, and also in the
radio business. And the simple observation is sometimes when you
come into a studio and you pick up someone's headphones
from the previous host, and you think, oh my god,
it's almost like a transistor radio. It's so loud. I
(07:48):
have a theory as a layperson that we are really
ambivalent and far too casual about looking after hearing. What's
your view?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I think we're getting better but definitely we are still
very casual. I think my background also is assessments for
ACC for occupational noise induced hearing loss over the years,
and I've looked after a lot of elderly patients have
made assessment for ACC and I mean in the past
(08:19):
they wouldn't have worn any ear muffs at work, and
I think that has definitely improved, but there's still room
for improvement. You know, there's still situations where people walk
into a noisy workplace, somebody starts loud machinery and has
in checked that other people have the earmuffs on, you know,
or people still can't be bothered wearing earmuffs. So I
(08:40):
think at work there's still more work to be done.
I think a big deal are their pods like I'm
wearing right now and listening to loud music, you know,
like you mentioned before, And there was a campaign a
few years ago just sort of educating at schools and
young kids not to turn the airports to loudly because
(09:03):
the hearing loss is at you know, every time you
listen to too music that is too loud, you damage
some air hair cells and with time you damage more
and more. And initially you don't notice it. It sneaks
up on you, and then suddenly you reach a certain
age where actually it makes a huge difference. And so
I think the rule that we put out there is
(09:25):
the sixty sixty rule. Turn it down to sixty percent maximum,
maybe for sixty minutes at a time, and that should
protect your hearing well enough in terms of volume and
listening to music.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
How quickly can you damage your hearing? And let's make
let's say forget the concerts for a moment, but in
the workplace, you know, a few loud a few loud
planks of wood dropping next to you, versus you know,
an ongoing sound of a chainsaw or something, how.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Quickly Yeah, I mean a chainsaw is pretty loud. I
think eighty five decibels is sort of loud enough where
you have to shout to make yourself understood to your
work made. And if you do that for eight hours,
you've done some damage for sure. And then the chainsaw
is well above they'll be looking at nineteen ninety five decibels.
(10:10):
And then the sort of really sort of explosive noises
maybe from those nail guns or similar devices. Then you know,
it gets shorter and shorter.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Can I call, and does your ear have a tolerance
for itself? Like you walk past someone on a building
site and that far a few nail guns and you go, God,
that was bloody loud. Have you actually done any damage there?
Or does your ear have some tolerance for a short
term loud noise?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah? Yeah, it depends on the level. But there is
a temporary threshold shift that means that the everything gets
dampened down and then recovers again. So I think you
get away with that. Some people believe that even that
is already a type of damage, and if you do
that often enough, it will also leave you with damage.
So just working into a noisy space where somebody suddenly
(10:59):
starts a lout compressor is probably not good.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Okay, right, let's take your cause. Shell's happy to take
your cause about your hearing or any questions you've got
around hearing aids devices, cocular implants. He's the man. So
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number mark.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Hello, Oh, good afternoon, Thank you, Timm and Dan.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Hello doctor doctor.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
On about the seventh of June this year, I had
a noise event. I woke up the next day and
I've had tenatus ever since. I've had the hearing test
and the eight K range. It's all the plummets off
for the radar in terms of my ability to pick
up at those very high, high pitched sounds. I've spoken
(11:44):
under doctor thing, I've been referred to someone like yourself,
and that's upcoming. So I thought i'd ask get round
the uh the question, just there isn't really much you
can do with tenatus?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There is? I mean there's always that, there's the cute injury,
and there's obviously the long term tenators. Everybody has a
degree of tinatus, and sometimes after an event you're describing,
you could course sort of tip the balance a little
bit towards having even more tentatives than before, maybe in
frequencies that were not tested. But with time it could
(12:18):
get better. By itself, the brand sort of puts a
clamp on. Ultimately it can get better. I usually advise
patients to use masking methods, where you know, if you
imagine the volume or sort of perceive the volume of
your ringing, just have a masking sound like a radio
music or a white noise at a volume that's just
(12:41):
a bit quieter than the tinatus itself, and over time
you notice, you can turn that volume lower and lower
and ultimately you don't need it anymore. And so tinatus
is an early sign of hearing loss. Is a reflection
of your hearing loss. And if your hearing loss is
bad enough, a hearing aid might be needed. And a
(13:01):
hearing aid would also help you with the tinatus. So
those are the options.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Okay, thank you so very much, Thanks you very much.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Actually, just while on the back of that, are you
saying that, you know you put a radio on the
background a little lower volume sort of thing. Is that
because it's not about fixing the actual physiological symptom, that's
around training your brain to filter out that noise. You know,
your I mean your brain gets used does all sorts
of things that can filter all sorts of things out.
(13:30):
I guess yeah, time.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I mean, yeah, you want to reset the brand if
you if you of a mask if you if you
make it louder, it's comfortable at the time of the masking,
but if you tend to turn the masking sound off,
the tinters will appear louder. So in order to habituate,
to get used to the ringing and not hear it anymore,
the brand needs to be able to hear it, and
therefore you have the masking sound lower than the ringing off.
(13:55):
The tint to volume is right.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Let's take some more cause lots of calls coming in here. Catherine, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I was just wondering if you could help me. Got
what's labeled moderator severe hearing loss. And I had a
stand on and it showed that I had out writers
for the storic bone. Okay, and I went along to
a specialist and he said that su tree was an
option to replace the storic bone, but the risk was
(14:25):
whether the suitretent work. I'd learned the hearing completely and
also of hearing aids for work. It was about four
years ago, five years ago there which specialist happenings changed
in that time where the chance of that happening was
reduced or that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, no, the I think what you're talking about is
a condition called otoscoosis. It's a metabolic condition. It's inherited
in fifty percent of people where you get new bone
formation around the last hearing bone, which is the stapies
of the syrup, and with that loss of mobility, you
get what's called a conductive hearing loss. And that's one
(15:08):
of the conditions you can treat with surgery. It's an
operation called stepidotomy. It's a good operation. You replace the
last hearing on the state piece with a little piston
and it's a very successful operation. You should always have
a hearing a trial first because, as you said, one
of the complications of any operation on the ear, in
(15:31):
particular of the inner ear, is a complete hearing loss.
It's rare, less than one percent. But if you don't
try hearing it first and say well, actually this is
not for me, then you'd be pretty annoyed. So nothing
has changed. I think that is always going to be there,
but a lot of patients opt for this option. But
(15:53):
having said that, a hearing it is a good option
for this condition. But if you want an operation, choose somebody.
It is mainly ears and quite a few of mainly
ear surgeons around in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Catherine, Can I ask you what was the risk explained
to you five years ago, because obviously it was enough
that you thought now I'm not going there.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Yeah, it was about five percent.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And okay, I can love.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Without my hearing aids the absolutely pantest and I've got
the same hearing loss prey well in both the years.
It's not a lot better than the other any and
obviously hearing its being my savior and the idea of
trying to operate with that.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
M hm, what is it?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What's your response with Michelle saying that the risks about
a round one percent. Obviously you need to go and
have a consultation with someone. But what are you interested
in revisiting it again? Is what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
I think, yes, well, I always wonder, you know, hearing
a fantastic you know, there's a little fe limitations, but
hearing aids, but you suitory would be the answer, but
it's just making sure that the benefit outaight for rough from.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, well hopefully that helps Catherine. Yeah, that five percent
risk sounded like it was stated enough that would put
an input many people of wouldn't it Michelle?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean it's five percent if
you have a vision surgery. It's one percent if it's
the first operation. But in somebody who's doing well with
the hearing age, you wouldn't do anything, you know, why
risk it and if things change in the future, you
can always have surgery.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, hopefully that's helpful for you. Catherine, thanks for your call,
lots of calls. We'll be back in just a moment.
We're with a doctor Michel Nephee's an E and T
specialist of specializing in hearing and cochlear implants and a
whole bunch of things to do with your ear health.
So if you've got any questions for him, we're here
to help. On eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We
can text on nine two, nine to two, but calls
(17:51):
get first preference to jump on the blower. It's twenty
four past four, Yes, News talk sai'd be Tim Bevera
Jeoh'm joined by doctor Michell Nefhe's an E and T
specialist with specializing and hearing. Actually, just before we go
to our callers, ibbed, I will do a couple of
texts just follow up on that tenatus discussion, Michelle. This
person says, I've got tentatives. It's never gone. It's something
(18:11):
I'm told I have to live with by experts. Terrible,
but I have no choice. Are there is there further
help people can seek to find a way of dealing
with their con tentators.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
There are a special sort of special clinics run by audiology.
I mean, there's the tentatives click at the Awkward University.
They stopped for a while because they were a bit
overwhelmed with COVID and everything, but I think they've started again,
and so that's an option to for for this person
to go to. And there's some private audiologists who specialized
(18:49):
in tenatives in particular, and I think, yeah, I think
it's always wrong to just say, well, you just have
to live with it. I think you have to do
everything you can and use the masking methods, use your
hearing aids, see people, and sometimes you need some psychological support,
so because I mean, if you have something bad happening,
if you get frustrated about your tiltus, the brand starts
(19:12):
to spin and you start worrying about it more and
more and more. So I think it's important to see
someone in Sometimes some psychological support is important as well
in this situation.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
But physically the person's come back, and is there anything
physically that can be done fortinitous.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Apart from the hearing aids. I wouldn't end the mask
and I wouldn't do anything else.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, okay, right, let's start carrying on with the calls.
Speaker 7 (19:35):
Peter, Hello, Yeah, Hi Tim, And doctor for older people.
When I'm lying down at night before I go to bed,
I get a sort of mirroring sort of sound laying flat.
Is that serious? Do I need to do anything about it?
And then I just go to sleep and during the
(19:56):
day it's okay. It's just when I lying down flat
that I get this mirroring sound in my ears.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Are you talking about a pulsing sensation or what are
you talking about?
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Oh, it's sort of like a purring, purring sort of
sound in the ears. And a fellow person who's older
like me said, Oh, that's just part of life, that
it's part of getting old that you get this sort
of you get this mirroring sound. I just sort of
(20:34):
thought i'd bring you up to sieve it was serious
and if not, or just won't worry about it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, it's most likely not serious. It is possible that
you're hearing either your sort of venus pulse blood draining
from the brain when you're laying down it's quiet, or
you hear your you know, the pulse of the of
the blood going into the brain. It's a type of tinatus.
But I think the next time you're with your doctor
(21:03):
just maybe has the heart checked again, getting them to
listen to the heart, listen to the neck and make
sure that the blood flow is normal there, and if
that all is fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
But have your hearing checked as well, make sure there's
no hearing loss that might be causing that. But if
everything is normal and the GPS, I wouldn't worry much
(21:23):
about it.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Oh, thank you very.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Much, Peter. Does that sound coming from Does it feel
like it's coming from an inside your head sort of
thing as opposed to something external.
Speaker 7 (21:34):
No, it just seems it seems to be just isolated
in the ear drums.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Okay, yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
Sure that's what it seems like anyway.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, I just prepel the people are listening or trying
to put it in context. Thanks for that. Mischievously, I
was going to say, has he got a cat that
would be externalised? It's probably a little mischievous of anyway, right,
Sorry about that. Just another one was Actually I'll come
(22:06):
back with a couple of other texts. We'll keep the
calls rolling. Darryl.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Hello, Yes, Hello, good afternoon, Michelle. My question idea is
I would say that I've got timothysts I've had it
for more years than I care to remember, but I
live with that. The only reason I'm telling you is
in cases related to my main concern, and that is vertigo. Now,
(22:32):
I've had some episodes. The first one I had like
it just struck me completely out of the blue, and
I could drive that I couldn't walk, and they ended
up lying on the doctors. I drove myself to the
adopt and ended up lying on his on the floor,
and that over the years, and that I had one
not long ago, and honestly I felt I couldn't I
(22:54):
couldn't live to another one. I was. I was so sick.
I couldn't move in my eyes without throwing up. For
you for like twelve hours. And I've heard that the
crystal theory is a theory, and I just took the
opportunity to give you a call.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, So are you talking about prolonged spinning or just
very brief episodes in response to certain movements.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Well, it just starts with like an completely unrelated thing,
like getting out of the car or just turning in
a certain direction, just like there's nothing leading up to it,
and it's like it's like I'm moving through the world,
and I can't it gets to the stage, right, I
(23:41):
can't even look at anything. When I shift my eyes,
I just it just takes off and I'm just spearing sensation.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, So I think there are several conditions. I mean,
yours sounds a little bit like a condition which is
called hydrops or menyus disease. It could be that you
have that you will need a hearing test m what
you're hearing is like, and a sort of proper assessment
of the spending and examination of the ears, and maybe
maybe some further investigations. And the alternative could be that
(24:18):
it's related to some crystals the non positional vertico where
you get debris floating in the balance organ which is
easily treated, and your family doctors should be able to
determine that by certain maneuvers. But I would definitely have
it investigated initially with a hearing test, and depending on
what that shows, maybe some further investigations and referrals as well.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So, I mean I have had the hearing test at
the same time, got my eyes done and all that
sort of carry on, and it was like really good,
they said, so I've got here extremely well. The tymeters
are just sort of something in the background which doesn't
seem to expected. But so I did have that tested
when I got new glasses, and I don't have a
(25:03):
problem with hearing. It's just that some people said the
crystal thing is but a theory and you could waste
time and money going down. You know, there's there's movements
you can do it. I tried some of those movements,
which unique and all that.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
And all that.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they work. It's not it's
not a theory. It's if you've got the right diagnosis,
the the apple maneuver will work. But I think you're
still I think you need to get a proper history
taken by a g P and then get referred as
as needed. You know. It sounds like something that could
(25:40):
be related to the inner and potentially treatable and preventable.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, okay, thanks for your call. Now, actually, thank you
very much on the on the the the element, you know,
the maneuvers you can do for what do you call it,
benign position? Yeah, they always maneuvers you do yourself, because
I think I've saw somewhere that there are some sort
of contraptions some that that they also that's been a
meaned where they sort of spin you around in a
(26:07):
chair or something, and it sounds interesting and maybe a
little horrendous, but if it works.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I guess yeah, no, we we we haven't got a
contraption like that. They're very expensive for something where you
can just sort of throw a patient around. Yeah, but
the maneuvers, the apply maneuver. It works well. And some
patients you know who get benumb paris positional virtigo a lot,
they know how to do it themselves well as well.
(26:31):
But some patients who do it the first time, they
try it and don't do it properly, and then convert
one canal to another one and they've got other problems.
And so initially your doctor or a physiotherapist, audiologists, orienty
searcher should do it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Because you've got to work out what side it's on,
isn't it, because then it needs work out what maneuver
to do.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, So each each side has got three balanced canals,
so you need to know the canals, usually the posterior
canal and then obviously the science. You need to determine
that first and then do the do do it appropriately.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Somebody just asks you, I'll be wearing mus to mow
the lawn. I'm saying yes, but Michelle.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yes, yes, if it's a modern lawnmoid it. We'll say
on there that you know what the decibel reading is,
so how noisy it isn't I bet it's well above
eighty five unless it's an electric one. But it doesn't hurt.
I mean, the lawnmower is quite known. That sort of
puts you in your own little world anyway, and nobody's
going to talk to you, so it's quite nice.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Exactly right. Well, we got to take another break. Well,
lots of cause lined up to talk to Michelle, so
we'll be backing just to take it's twenty two minutes
to five. Yes, news talks, it'd be we're talking hearing
with doctor Michelle Neefe's an E and T specialist. Just
a text here on a slightly different issue. Michelle has
(27:48):
a textas says, I've got problems with excess ear wax
that ends up touching my ear drum causing problems. Is
there anything I can do from ross?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Not really, it's a bit unusual ear wax, I mean
ear wex is there for a reason. You know. It
picks up debris old skin and little hair cells in
the ear canal beats the earax out. So it's a
good thing to have and it's a bad thing to
try and remove it. It is rare that it causes
problems in people. It's rare that it's pushed all the
way down onto the ear drum. And I find that
(28:18):
in many In many patients where that happens is they
are they used cotton buds or their fingers to try
and scratch or clean the earax out, And that's a
no no. So if you just leave it alone, it
might not make it down there. But otherwise, apart from
regular ear suctioning by an ear nerves or by some
of the audio to do it as well, is all
(28:39):
that can be done for those where this happens. It
causes a hearing loss.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Okay, so it's my job to ask dumb questions because
I always assumed that your fingers not designed to go
very far. So I sometimes give us a little scratch
here or there. What's the rule? Never anyways in touch
of it?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
What was it? Nothing bigger than your elbow? Isn't it
into your ears? I think? So that's the rule. So really, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,
And keep there trying, but yes and yeah, nothing into that.
Ye don't try and clean it.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I thing bigger than your elbow. There, you heard it?
He yet remember it? Okay, Right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
Donna, Hello, Hello, Hi Tim and Michelle. Yeah, I'm actually
ringing on behalf of my mother in law. She hate
a hearing a set, and she lost one of them
in the garden and then she's got a new set
quite an expense of They're color coded and they're shaped
in the way that they can only go in the
correct ear for them to work. My partner and I
(29:40):
took her for a drive for about an hour up
to Overwa and they literally screamed the whole way, like
a really really high pitch noise that she couldn't actually hear.
We've noticed since she's had them, who deteriorated considerably. She
really is sort of lip reading almost now and can't
(30:00):
hear high pitch noises. She's taken them back with her
daughter probably three to times, and they say it's the airwacks,
which it can't be because she's periodically going to get
her ears checked for that by professionals, or she's wearing
them in the wrong ears. But even when she took
them out and we put them in the boot of
the car, they still preceded to do this like high
(30:22):
pitch electrical scream, like you know when you're get them
closer together and then take them apart. But yeah, since
you've had them, we've really noticed quite a deterioration in
her high pitch and just general hearing actually over the
last few months.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But Okay, it wouldn't be the first person to notice that.
I mean, I think we've often heard people with hearing
aids screaming out and you're thinking, they hear that, Michelle,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, a lot of patients wouldn't. It depends on the
hearing loss, of course, and if it's quite a severe
hearing loss, then she might not hear that. I think
any hearing when you take the hearing aid, oh it
starts whistling and you have to turn it off and
you have got a little button to turn it off,
or you just open the flat that has the battery.
(31:10):
It's hard to put it in the wrong ear. The
mold wouldn't fit you. Usually the color coded red is
for right, are red right and the blue one goes
to the left. If they're whistling, it could be wax.
If they're still whistling after having the ear suction, it
is going to be the hearing aid mold. So the
(31:30):
mold is not tightly fitting and therefore sound can escape
and you get that feedback loop again causing the feedback
sound and or you know, they turned to loud and
they're just not helping her anymore. I think I should
mention it's not the hearing aid that caused the hearing loss,
but maybe the fine tuning of the hearing aid is
(31:53):
not up to scratch. I would go back to the
audiologists and try different molds, different aids, and try and
adjust it. And if the hearing aids don't help anymore,
and so if she doesn't get benefit from it any
hearing aids, it would also be useful to ask the question,
but are they still good enough? Is a hearing still
(32:15):
good enough for hearing aids or do we need to
look beyond like a cocklet implant? And that always needs
to be in somebody's mind as well, whether the hearing
aids don't work anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Okay, he thanks for your call, Dona. By the way,
I think I misquoted you. Michelle I might have said
nothing bigger than your elbow, but of course it's nothing
smaller than your elbow.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Just to get that.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Right, details matter, I guess right. Let's go to Julia.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Hello, oh, hello, thank you. I was just wondering I
had heard yesterday. I have quite severe loss of hearing
in one ear through a virus that I had twelve
months ago, and I've I wondered about or I'd heard
about a microphone, and I wondered if that's a possibility
(33:03):
that might help me, because I'm really struggling in groups
to hear people. Yeah, do you know about that at all?
Speaker 7 (33:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You Has the hearing loss been investigated.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, it has been to a NT fecius and I
even had a brain scan. I had a few things
like that. But my balance at times is very very bad.
It can be quite bad at times.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think what you're talking about. It
depends a bit on the other ear as well. So
if you have a slight hearing loss on the other
side as well, then I would recommend a hearing aid
for that side, and then you can have something that
looks like you're hearing it on the deaf side that
works like a microphone to pick up sounds from that
side and transmits to the other hearing aid. That's called
(33:59):
a by cross aid. If you're hearing it's normal on
the other side, then it's called a cross aid. So
I think that's what you've been told about it. It
works well in some people. It will not replace directoral hearing,
so you still won't know where people are speaking from
when you wear that. In noisy environments, it can still
(34:19):
be harder for you to hear with a hearing aid
like that, but it can have benefits where you don't
miss out. For example, at a at a function or
at a dinner, if somebody talks to your death site,
you will still be able to hear that, and so
it can be useful for that. If you're interested in
directional hearing, you can place a copler implant on that side.
(34:39):
That is not funded in New Zealand, but it is
a possibility through the private sector and that will give
you directional hearing back. But obviously that is an operation
and a significant cost associated with that as well.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Hey, thanks for your call, Julia. Hey, just quickly, how
long does it take people to get used to wearing
a hearing aid? Generally, what's the range Michelle.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, it's it's hard to sell. I think everybody's different,
but I try and get my patience to get persevere
for six to twelve months. I think they'll notice the
benefit quite early, but it takes six to twelve months
to fully get used to it. You should also remember
(35:19):
it will not you have to have the right expected.
It's not normal hearing that you're getting. You're getting great
benefit in certain situations and not in others. Noise environments
are always going to be difficult, but you will get
benefit and you have to persevere wearing them because everything
sounds weird initially and then it comes right.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Okay, we're going to take quick break and we'll say
what if we can squeeze through some more calls in
the limited time we have left. It is eleven minutes
to five News Talk, said b Hi. Welcome back to
the Health Tim Beverage with doctor Michelle Nephi's a hearing
specialist E and T specialists. More specifically, quick question Michelle,
retrade ease ear plugs versus muffs? Any difference? What would
(35:59):
you recommend?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Much so much better? You know, you get better range
of better seal and yeah, I mean, some people even
were the plugs and muffs on top of it, you know,
so both together is fine. I guess plus is better
than nothing. But if there's a choice, definitely.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Noise canceling technology muffs as well, or is that problematic?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
No? I mean that's sort of adds to it. But
I think just a simple ear muff is all this neat.
I don't think you have to go down the technology
right a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Is there a description as the noise reduction that you
need to look for on the label?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah? I mean most of the commercial ones they have
a label on there, and the tradees normally know which
ones to go for. I think if you get the
pack that has got a mask and something else and
something else in it for five dollars, it's probably no good.
You have to spend a bit of money.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, okay, right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 9 (36:57):
George hello, oh yes, hello George here and hello doctor.
I've got a you know, a real timatous issue which
is extremely loud and it doesn't ever go away, and
(37:17):
it varies, you know, from tolerable to almost extreme. It
seems to come in at odd times. But coupled with it,
I had something which is called a hyper curses and
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that's right, but the
sensitivity to sounds and so we're trying hearing aids at
(37:44):
the moment, and it's a bit tricky with the hyper
curses a good terrible distortion. So to listen to music
which I was a musician and I loved the music,
I cannot listen to particularly the high notes might ear.
(38:07):
Is just the store like amplifier or you know, so
what is the much done?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Or okay, okay?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I think yeah, persevere, George, I think keep going with
the hearing aids. There are two problems here. Obviously, you
don't want to hear anything for the hyperocuruses. You want
to hear to dampen the tinatus, and I think that's
what your audiologist is trying to do. But it takes time.
The hypercurses is at a brain level, so you need
to expose your brain to more sound to get used
(38:40):
to it, and do it slowly. Just use the hearing
aids a little bit, maybe for a minute or two
at a time, and then slowly increase and it will
slowly get better. It takes a long time. It's probably
been there for years, so it will take years to
get better.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Right, I think we've running out of time for any
more calls. But just I guess if people have got
can you do di y sort of hearing testing to
make yourself think i'd been go and see someone on
what what's your advice on people if they've if they've
got any curiosity about how their hearing health is.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
There are lots of apps available now, you know, on
your on your smartphones, you can run an app and
just check your hearing the health app on the iPhones,
they've got a hearing health app on there as well
now and you can even tune your the more modern
ear pods to like a hearing aid device, you know.
So yes, it's quite reliable now and it's a good
(39:35):
thing to do, especially you know, if you think you've
got blocked ears ringing in your ear, just run an
app and if something doesn't look quite right on there,
then get a formal hearing test. So it's a good
thing to do it.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
That'd be a case of going to an audiologist, not
your GP.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Then that's correct.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, excellent, Gosh, we could have taken calls for the
next hour as well, Michelle, So really appreciate your time
this afternoon. Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Much, pleasure, thanks for having me, Jim, enjoy.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
The rest of your afternoon.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Cheerio.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
That is that wraps the health up. That's there's some
great advice and if you look, if you relate to that,
go and check out our podcast because we had calls
covering a range of topics there if you've got any
questions about your hearing. But of course, as Michelle was
saying that if you've got any questions, go and see
an audiologist, and we really thank him for his time,
really appreciate it. We'll be back with Smart Money next
(40:22):
talking well change of topics of course, the ocr and
what the Reserve Bank's going to do because we have
that bad figure around GDP. Back shortly with Hamish Pepper.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
It's hard to see how.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh come here?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yes, welcome O Nor welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Now this is the bit where we want your calls
to your participation on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
and text nine two ninety two. Just before we get
cracking on this hour, just looking further ahead for smart money.
After five, we're talking with Hamish Pepper from Harbor Asset
Management about the lower than anticipated gd GDP GDFE GDP
(00:49):
figures and what it means for the o CR where
that's going to go. But right now, welcome to the
Health Hub and today well we're talking broadly speaking about
hearing because the world Health Organizations estimated over a billion
people between the ages of twelve and thirty five are
at high risk of hearing loss due to unsafe habits.
The key cause for this is maybe listening to music
(01:10):
for too long, too loudly, your headphones, your earbuds, even
a movie cinema apparently can have unsafe sound levels, never
mind a concert of course, or a bar. And does
anyone care about how loud their music is or using
ear muffs when you mown in the lawn. I don't
think I ever discovered the MUFS stillism thirties or forties,
I guess anyway, So are we too casual about looking
(01:32):
after our hearing? When did you start to be careful
about safe listening? You give us your cause on eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty or text on nine two
ninety two and joining us. He is an E and
T specialist. Now it's the second time with us on
the health up and we had such a great chat
last time. We thought we'd get him back, and he's
kindly agreed to join us at DTR. Michelle Neith, How
(01:54):
are you, Michelle?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'm very well. Thanks for having me too, Thanks for
coming on.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Hey, Actually, can I just again correct my pronunciation of
your name?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Michelle?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Michelle?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, Michell?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Where's where's it? What's the origin of it? Because is it?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
For instance? No, it's a German name, that's right, southern
southern German name, yeap, not French.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's right. We had that. I think de javeau. I
might of question you about that last time, and I
didn't write it down. So and your so your practice
just again for people who you know, you've been on
once with the show. If you were to introduce yourself
in terms of your particular interest as an E and
T specialist, of course that stands for nose and throat,
but your focus is on hearing and your ear health really,
(02:39):
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah. So I trained as an E and T surgeon
sort of in Auckland and through the College of Surgeons
in Australia and New Zealand and then sub specialized just
in years and skull based surgery in Manchester and then
returned back and have been working just with years or
mainly probably nineteen ninety five percent with years at Auckland
(03:01):
City Hospital and Starship Hospital as well as in private
ever since. And so it's been a couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
What skull based surgery.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That's everything sort of going from the ear inwards and upwards,
you know. So we deal with some of the tumors
that are related to the hearing and balanced nerve as
well as some other tumors related to the middle ear
and sometimes invading the inner ear and behind the ear
as well. So that's what that is.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is it just this is a sort of trivial question,
but are reminded of that song. You know, the hip
bone is connected to the thighbone and all that sort
of thing. Is that one of the challenges of medicine
in a specific area like ear, nose and throat is
sort of knowing when you've reached you've headed down a
path here and maybe this we need to hand it
(03:51):
off to someone else or you know, and I mean
in terms of even just deciding where your area of
interest lies.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean it's we're talking about a little area here,
but it's rather complex with lots of fashion of balanced organ,
hearing organ, and close to the brain. So there's a
lot of collaboration with other subspecialties and other specialties, and
so yeah, I and T is very broad and we
have to you know, work we work with plastic surgeons,
(04:21):
we work with neurosurgeons, or yeah, we worked together and
hand over and assist each other.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
What was the thing that got you interested in it?
Was it the physiology around hearing or was it the
sort of looking at the patient outcome of wanting to
work with people on the hearing? What what was your
sort of lead into that area? Do you know what
I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think you know, at med school. The initial thing
actually was that the E and T group who came
and taught us E and T seemed to seemed to
be very happy, and I thought, that's a happy group,
and so that got my initial interest going. And then
later on when I sort of got interested in this
various subspecialties and tea. At the time or it had
(05:03):
already happened, cochlear implants started going in New Zealand and
there was sort of videos in the department and they
were sort of demonstrating how to do cochlear implants, and
there were a few patients with Copler implants that really
raised my interest in ears. You know, that was quite amazing.
That was the bionic ear. There was no other other
sense where that could be done, and that was really
(05:25):
what interested me a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I guess that, I mean, that must have a
very strong overlap with the neuro side of things, isn't it.
Because it's one thing to create a device that can
help that will capture sound, but linking that into something
that the brain can interpret must be quite a journey.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a surgeon in Toronto
was like me, a Cockler implant surgeon as well, and
he says that he operates on the brain. It's a
bit silly, but I think you know, putting a cochlear
implant into an ear is one thing, but for a child,
it means that they'll develop. You know that it assists
brain development. If you don't stimulate a child that's who's
(06:03):
profoundly deaf, they will not a lot of the parts
of the brain responsible for speech and language. And therefore,
you know, that's his take, you know. So it's important,
very important.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That ties into a question that where I was going
to dig in further down the track, we must well
touch on it now, because I was chatting with my
producer and she was mentioning that there are some doctors
who almost don't who are hesitant to recommend hearing aids
because I don't know why it would be. But is
there are there cases where you don't want to go
(06:35):
too soon to getting a hearing aid because I don't know,
maybe you need to focus on listening skills. I don't know.
Help me out with this one.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No, not really that I think if a hearing aid
is needed, you should always have a hearing aid. But
there may be conditions where the patient can't tolerate a
hearing it it needs a different hearing aid or where
you know, if you have a sudden hearing loss, there
might actually be a recovery with treatment or with time
and others. And there are conditions where you can actually
(07:04):
have an operation and improve their hearing. And as I
just mentioned, you know, sometimes hearing aids are not strong
enough to provide hearing or benefit hearing benefit, and those
patients would better benefit from a cochlear implant. So I
don't think it's a matter of doctors don't do a
hearing a try something else with your hearing loss. There
are proper reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
How casual are we my theory and this is just
as someone in the music business who's been in the
music business with concerts and things, and also in the
radio business. And the simple observation is sometimes when you
come into a studio and you pick up someone's headphones
from the previous host, and you think, oh my god,
it's almost like a transistor radio. It's so loud. I
(07:48):
have a theory as a layperson that we are really
ambivalent and far too casual about looking after hearing. What's
your view?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I think we're getting better but definitely we are still
very casual. I think my background also is assessments for
ACC for occupational noise induced hearing loss over the years,
and I've looked after a lot of elderly patients have
made assessment for ACC and I mean in the past
(08:19):
they wouldn't have worn any ear muffs at work, and
I think that has definitely improved, but there's still room
for improvement. You know, there's still situations where people walk
into a noisy workplace, somebody starts loud machinery and has
in checked that other people have the earmuffs on, you know,
or people still can't be bothered wearing earmuffs. So I
(08:40):
think at work there's still more work to be done.
I think a big deal are their pods like I'm
wearing right now and listening to loud music, you know,
like you mentioned before, And there was a campaign a
few years ago just sort of educating at schools and
young kids not to turn the airports to loudly because
(09:03):
the hearing loss is at you know, every time you
listen to too music that is too loud, you damage
some air hair cells and with time you damage more
and more. And initially you don't notice it. It sneaks
up on you, and then suddenly you reach a certain
age where actually it makes a huge difference. And so
I think the rule that we put out there is
(09:25):
the sixty sixty rule. Turn it down to sixty percent maximum,
maybe for sixty minutes at a time, and that should
protect your hearing well enough in terms of volume and
listening to music.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
How quickly can you damage your hearing? And let's make
let's say forget the concerts for a moment, but in
the workplace, you know, a few loud a few loud
planks of wood dropping next to you, versus you know,
an ongoing sound of a chainsaw or something, how.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Quickly Yeah, I mean a chainsaw is pretty loud. I
think eighty five decibels is sort of loud enough where
you have to shout to make yourself understood to your
work made. And if you do that for eight hours,
you've done some damage for sure. And then the chainsaw
is well above they'll be looking at nineteen ninety five decibels.
(10:10):
And then the sort of really sort of explosive noises
maybe from those nail guns or similar devices. Then you know,
it gets shorter and shorter.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Can I call, and does your ear have a tolerance
for itself? Like you walk past someone on a building
site and that far a few nail guns and you go, God,
that was bloody loud. Have you actually done any damage there?
Or does your ear have some tolerance for a short
term loud noise?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah? Yeah, it depends on the level. But there is
a temporary threshold shift that means that the everything gets
dampened down and then recovers again. So I think you
get away with that. Some people believe that even that
is already a type of damage, and if you do
that often enough, it will also leave you with damage.
So just working into a noisy space where somebody suddenly
(10:59):
starts a lout compressor is probably not good.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Okay, right, let's take your cause. Shell's happy to take
your cause about your hearing or any questions you've got
around hearing aids devices, cocular implants. He's the man. So
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number mark.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Hello, Oh, good afternoon, Thank you, Timm and Dan.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Hello doctor doctor.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
On about the seventh of June this year, I had
a noise event. I woke up the next day and
I've had tenatus ever since. I've had the hearing test
and the eight K range. It's all the plummets off
for the radar in terms of my ability to pick
up at those very high, high pitched sounds. I've spoken
(11:44):
under doctor thing, I've been referred to someone like yourself,
and that's upcoming. So I thought i'd ask get round
the uh the question, just there isn't really much you
can do with tenatus?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
There is? I mean there's always that, there's the cute injury,
and there's obviously the long term tenators. Everybody has a
degree of tinatus, and sometimes after an event you're describing,
you could course sort of tip the balance a little
bit towards having even more tentatives than before, maybe in
frequencies that were not tested. But with time it could
(12:18):
get better. By itself, the brand sort of puts a
clamp on. Ultimately it can get better. I usually advise
patients to use masking methods, where you know, if you
imagine the volume or sort of perceive the volume of
your ringing, just have a masking sound like a radio
music or a white noise at a volume that's just
(12:41):
a bit quieter than the tinatus itself, and over time
you notice, you can turn that volume lower and lower
and ultimately you don't need it anymore. And so tinatus
is an early sign of hearing loss. Is a reflection
of your hearing loss. And if your hearing loss is
bad enough, a hearing aid might be needed. And a
(13:01):
hearing aid would also help you with the tinatus. So
those are the options.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Okay, thank you so very much, Thanks you very much.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Actually, just while on the back of that, are you
saying that, you know you put a radio on the
background a little lower volume sort of thing. Is that
because it's not about fixing the actual physiological symptom, that's
around training your brain to filter out that noise. You know,
your I mean your brain gets used does all sorts
of things that can filter all sorts of things out.
(13:30):
I guess yeah, time.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I mean, yeah, you want to reset the brand if
you if you of a mask if you if you
make it louder, it's comfortable at the time of the masking,
but if you tend to turn the masking sound off,
the tinters will appear louder. So in order to habituate,
to get used to the ringing and not hear it anymore,
the brand needs to be able to hear it, and
therefore you have the masking sound lower than the ringing off.
(13:55):
The tint to volume is right.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Let's take some more cause lots of calls coming in here. Catherine, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I was just wondering if you could help me. Got
what's labeled moderator severe hearing loss. And I had a
stand on and it showed that I had out writers
for the storic bone. Okay, and I went along to
a specialist and he said that su tree was an
option to replace the storic bone, but the risk was
(14:25):
whether the suitretent work. I'd learned the hearing completely and
also of hearing aids for work. It was about four
years ago, five years ago there which specialist happenings changed
in that time where the chance of that happening was
reduced or that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, no, the I think what you're talking about is
a condition called otoscoosis. It's a metabolic condition. It's inherited
in fifty percent of people where you get new bone
formation around the last hearing bone, which is the stapies
of the syrup, and with that loss of mobility, you
get what's called a conductive hearing loss. And that's one
(15:08):
of the conditions you can treat with surgery. It's an
operation called stepidotomy. It's a good operation. You replace the
last hearing on the state piece with a little piston
and it's a very successful operation. You should always have
a hearing a trial first because, as you said, one
of the complications of any operation on the ear, in
(15:31):
particular of the inner ear, is a complete hearing loss.
It's rare, less than one percent. But if you don't
try hearing it first and say well, actually this is
not for me, then you'd be pretty annoyed. So nothing
has changed. I think that is always going to be there,
but a lot of patients opt for this option. But
(15:53):
having said that, a hearing it is a good option
for this condition. But if you want an operation, choose somebody.
It is mainly ears and quite a few of mainly
ear surgeons around in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Catherine, Can I ask you what was the risk explained
to you five years ago, because obviously it was enough
that you thought now I'm not going there.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Yeah, it was about five percent.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And okay, I can love.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Without my hearing aids the absolutely pantest and I've got
the same hearing loss prey well in both the years.
It's not a lot better than the other any and
obviously hearing its being my savior and the idea of
trying to operate with that.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
M hm, what is it?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What's your response with Michelle saying that the risks about
a round one percent. Obviously you need to go and
have a consultation with someone. But what are you interested
in revisiting it again? Is what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
I think, yes, well, I always wonder, you know, hearing
a fantastic you know, there's a little fe limitations, but
hearing aids, but you suitory would be the answer, but
it's just making sure that the benefit outaight for rough from.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, well hopefully that helps Catherine. Yeah, that five percent
risk sounded like it was stated enough that would put
an input many people of wouldn't it Michelle?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean it's five percent if
you have a vision surgery. It's one percent if it's
the first operation. But in somebody who's doing well with
the hearing age, you wouldn't do anything, you know, why
risk it and if things change in the future, you
can always have surgery.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, hopefully that's helpful for you. Catherine, thanks for your call,
lots of calls. We'll be back in just a moment.
We're with a doctor Michel Nephee's an E and T
specialist of specializing in hearing and cochlear implants and a
whole bunch of things to do with your ear health.
So if you've got any questions for him, we're here
to help. On eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We
can text on nine two, nine to two, but calls
(17:51):
get first preference to jump on the blower. It's twenty
four past four, Yes, News talk sai'd be Tim Bevera
Jeoh'm joined by doctor Michell Nefhe's an E and T
specialist with specializing and hearing. Actually, just before we go
to our callers, ibbed, I will do a couple of
texts just follow up on that tenatus discussion, Michelle. This
person says, I've got tentatives. It's never gone. It's something
(18:11):
I'm told I have to live with by experts. Terrible,
but I have no choice. Are there is there further
help people can seek to find a way of dealing
with their con tentators.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
There are a special sort of special clinics run by audiology.
I mean, there's the tentatives click at the Awkward University.
They stopped for a while because they were a bit
overwhelmed with COVID and everything, but I think they've started again,
and so that's an option to for for this person
to go to. And there's some private audiologists who specialized
(18:49):
in tenatives in particular, and I think, yeah, I think
it's always wrong to just say, well, you just have
to live with it. I think you have to do
everything you can and use the masking methods, use your
hearing aids, see people, and sometimes you need some psychological support,
so because I mean, if you have something bad happening,
if you get frustrated about your tiltus, the brand starts
(19:12):
to spin and you start worrying about it more and
more and more. So I think it's important to see
someone in Sometimes some psychological support is important as well
in this situation.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
But physically the person's come back, and is there anything
physically that can be done fortinitous.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Apart from the hearing aids. I wouldn't end the mask
and I wouldn't do anything else.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, okay, right, let's start carrying on with the calls.
Speaker 7 (19:35):
Peter, Hello, Yeah, Hi Tim, And doctor for older people.
When I'm lying down at night before I go to bed,
I get a sort of mirroring sort of sound laying flat.
Is that serious? Do I need to do anything about it?
And then I just go to sleep and during the
(19:56):
day it's okay. It's just when I lying down flat
that I get this mirroring sound in my ears.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Are you talking about a pulsing sensation or what are
you talking about?
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Oh, it's sort of like a purring, purring sort of
sound in the ears. And a fellow person who's older
like me said, Oh, that's just part of life, that
it's part of getting old that you get this sort
of you get this mirroring sound. I just sort of
(20:34):
thought i'd bring you up to sieve it was serious
and if not, or just won't worry about it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, it's most likely not serious. It is possible that
you're hearing either your sort of venus pulse blood draining
from the brain when you're laying down it's quiet, or
you hear your you know, the pulse of the of
the blood going into the brain. It's a type of tinatus.
But I think the next time you're with your doctor
(21:03):
just maybe has the heart checked again, getting them to
listen to the heart, listen to the neck and make
sure that the blood flow is normal there, and if
that all is fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
But have your hearing checked as well, make sure there's
no hearing loss that might be causing that. But if
everything is normal and the GPS, I wouldn't worry much
(21:23):
about it.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Oh, thank you very.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Much, Peter. Does that sound coming from Does it feel
like it's coming from an inside your head sort of
thing as opposed to something external.
Speaker 7 (21:34):
No, it just seems it seems to be just isolated
in the ear drums.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Okay, yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
Sure that's what it seems like anyway.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, I just prepel the people are listening or trying
to put it in context. Thanks for that. Mischievously, I
was going to say, has he got a cat that
would be externalised? It's probably a little mischievous of anyway, right,
Sorry about that. Just another one was Actually I'll come
(22:06):
back with a couple of other texts. We'll keep the
calls rolling. Darryl.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Hello, Yes, Hello, good afternoon, Michelle. My question idea is
I would say that I've got timothysts I've had it
for more years than I care to remember, but I
live with that. The only reason I'm telling you is
in cases related to my main concern, and that is vertigo. Now,
(22:32):
I've had some episodes. The first one I had like
it just struck me completely out of the blue, and
I could drive that I couldn't walk, and they ended
up lying on the doctors. I drove myself to the
adopt and ended up lying on his on the floor,
and that over the years, and that I had one
not long ago, and honestly I felt I couldn't I
(22:54):
couldn't live to another one. I was. I was so sick.
I couldn't move in my eyes without throwing up. For
you for like twelve hours. And I've heard that the
crystal theory is a theory, and I just took the
opportunity to give you a call.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, So are you talking about prolonged spinning or just
very brief episodes in response to certain movements.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Well, it just starts with like an completely unrelated thing,
like getting out of the car or just turning in
a certain direction, just like there's nothing leading up to it,
and it's like it's like I'm moving through the world,
and I can't it gets to the stage, right, I
(23:41):
can't even look at anything. When I shift my eyes,
I just it just takes off and I'm just spearing sensation.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, So I think there are several conditions. I mean,
yours sounds a little bit like a condition which is
called hydrops or menyus disease. It could be that you
have that you will need a hearing test m what
you're hearing is like, and a sort of proper assessment
of the spending and examination of the ears, and maybe
maybe some further investigations. And the alternative could be that
(24:18):
it's related to some crystals the non positional vertico where
you get debris floating in the balance organ which is
easily treated, and your family doctors should be able to
determine that by certain maneuvers. But I would definitely have
it investigated initially with a hearing test, and depending on
what that shows, maybe some further investigations and referrals as well.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So, I mean I have had the hearing test at
the same time, got my eyes done and all that
sort of carry on, and it was like really good,
they said, so I've got here extremely well. The tymeters
are just sort of something in the background which doesn't
seem to expected. But so I did have that tested
when I got new glasses, and I don't have a
(25:03):
problem with hearing. It's just that some people said the
crystal thing is but a theory and you could waste
time and money going down. You know, there's there's movements
you can do it. I tried some of those movements,
which unique and all that.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
And all that.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they work. It's not it's
not a theory. It's if you've got the right diagnosis,
the the apple maneuver will work. But I think you're
still I think you need to get a proper history
taken by a g P and then get referred as
as needed. You know. It sounds like something that could
(25:40):
be related to the inner and potentially treatable and preventable.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, okay, thanks for your call. Now, actually, thank you
very much on the on the the the element, you know,
the maneuvers you can do for what do you call it,
benign position? Yeah, they always maneuvers you do yourself, because
I think I've saw somewhere that there are some sort
of contraptions some that that they also that's been a
meaned where they sort of spin you around in a
(26:07):
chair or something, and it sounds interesting and maybe a
little horrendous, but if it works.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I guess yeah, no, we we we haven't got a
contraption like that. They're very expensive for something where you
can just sort of throw a patient around. Yeah, but
the maneuvers, the apply maneuver. It works well. And some
patients you know who get benumb paris positional virtigo a lot,
they know how to do it themselves well as well.
(26:31):
But some patients who do it the first time, they
try it and don't do it properly, and then convert
one canal to another one and they've got other problems.
And so initially your doctor or a physiotherapist, audiologists, orienty
searcher should do it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Because you've got to work out what side it's on,
isn't it, because then it needs work out what maneuver
to do.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, So each each side has got three balanced canals,
so you need to know the canals, usually the posterior
canal and then obviously the science. You need to determine
that first and then do the do do it appropriately.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Somebody just asks you, I'll be wearing mus to mow
the lawn. I'm saying yes, but Michelle.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yes, yes, if it's a modern lawnmoid it. We'll say
on there that you know what the decibel reading is,
so how noisy it isn't I bet it's well above
eighty five unless it's an electric one. But it doesn't hurt.
I mean, the lawnmower is quite known. That sort of
puts you in your own little world anyway, and nobody's
going to talk to you, so it's quite nice.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Exactly right. Well, we got to take another break. Well,
lots of cause lined up to talk to Michelle, so
we'll be backing just to take it's twenty two minutes
to five. Yes, news talks, it'd be we're talking hearing
with doctor Michelle Neefe's an E and T specialist. Just
a text here on a slightly different issue. Michelle has
(27:48):
a textas says, I've got problems with excess ear wax
that ends up touching my ear drum causing problems. Is
there anything I can do from ross?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Not really, it's a bit unusual ear wax, I mean
ear wex is there for a reason. You know. It
picks up debris old skin and little hair cells in
the ear canal beats the earax out. So it's a
good thing to have and it's a bad thing to
try and remove it. It is rare that it causes
problems in people. It's rare that it's pushed all the
way down onto the ear drum. And I find that
(28:18):
in many In many patients where that happens is they
are they used cotton buds or their fingers to try
and scratch or clean the earax out, And that's a
no no. So if you just leave it alone, it
might not make it down there. But otherwise, apart from
regular ear suctioning by an ear nerves or by some
of the audio to do it as well, is all
(28:39):
that can be done for those where this happens. It
causes a hearing loss.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Okay, so it's my job to ask dumb questions because
I always assumed that your fingers not designed to go
very far. So I sometimes give us a little scratch
here or there. What's the rule? Never anyways in touch
of it?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
What was it? Nothing bigger than your elbow? Isn't it
into your ears? I think? So that's the rule. So really, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,
And keep there trying, but yes and yeah, nothing into that.
Ye don't try and clean it.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I thing bigger than your elbow. There, you heard it?
He yet remember it? Okay, Right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
Donna, Hello, Hello, Hi Tim and Michelle. Yeah, I'm actually
ringing on behalf of my mother in law. She hate
a hearing a set, and she lost one of them
in the garden and then she's got a new set
quite an expense of They're color coded and they're shaped
in the way that they can only go in the
correct ear for them to work. My partner and I
(29:40):
took her for a drive for about an hour up
to Overwa and they literally screamed the whole way, like
a really really high pitch noise that she couldn't actually hear.
We've noticed since she's had them, who deteriorated considerably. She
really is sort of lip reading almost now and can't
(30:00):
hear high pitch noises. She's taken them back with her
daughter probably three to times, and they say it's the airwacks,
which it can't be because she's periodically going to get
her ears checked for that by professionals, or she's wearing
them in the wrong ears. But even when she took
them out and we put them in the boot of
the car, they still preceded to do this like high
(30:22):
pitch electrical scream, like you know when you're get them
closer together and then take them apart. But yeah, since
you've had them, we've really noticed quite a deterioration in
her high pitch and just general hearing actually over the
last few months.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But Okay, it wouldn't be the first person to notice that.
I mean, I think we've often heard people with hearing
aids screaming out and you're thinking, they hear that, Michelle,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, a lot of patients wouldn't. It depends on the
hearing loss, of course, and if it's quite a severe
hearing loss, then she might not hear that. I think
any hearing when you take the hearing aid, oh it
starts whistling and you have to turn it off and
you have got a little button to turn it off,
or you just open the flat that has the battery.
(31:10):
It's hard to put it in the wrong ear. The
mold wouldn't fit you. Usually the color coded red is
for right, are red right and the blue one goes
to the left. If they're whistling, it could be wax.
If they're still whistling after having the ear suction, it
is going to be the hearing aid mold. So the
(31:30):
mold is not tightly fitting and therefore sound can escape
and you get that feedback loop again causing the feedback
sound and or you know, they turned to loud and
they're just not helping her anymore. I think I should
mention it's not the hearing aid that caused the hearing loss,
but maybe the fine tuning of the hearing aid is
(31:53):
not up to scratch. I would go back to the
audiologists and try different molds, different aids, and try and
adjust it. And if the hearing aids don't help anymore,
and so if she doesn't get benefit from it any
hearing aids, it would also be useful to ask the question,
but are they still good enough? Is a hearing still
(32:15):
good enough for hearing aids or do we need to
look beyond like a cocklet implant? And that always needs
to be in somebody's mind as well, whether the hearing
aids don't work anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Okay, he thanks for your call, Dona. By the way,
I think I misquoted you. Michelle I might have said
nothing bigger than your elbow, but of course it's nothing
smaller than your elbow.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Just to get that.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Right, details matter, I guess right. Let's go to Julia.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Hello, oh, hello, thank you. I was just wondering I
had heard yesterday. I have quite severe loss of hearing
in one ear through a virus that I had twelve
months ago, and I've I wondered about or I'd heard
about a microphone, and I wondered if that's a possibility
(33:03):
that might help me, because I'm really struggling in groups
to hear people. Yeah, do you know about that at all?
Speaker 7 (33:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You Has the hearing loss been investigated.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, it has been to a NT fecius and I
even had a brain scan. I had a few things
like that. But my balance at times is very very bad.
It can be quite bad at times.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think what you're talking about. It
depends a bit on the other ear as well. So
if you have a slight hearing loss on the other
side as well, then I would recommend a hearing aid
for that side, and then you can have something that
looks like you're hearing it on the deaf side that
works like a microphone to pick up sounds from that
side and transmits to the other hearing aid. That's called
(33:59):
a by cross aid. If you're hearing it's normal on
the other side, then it's called a cross aid. So
I think that's what you've been told about it. It
works well in some people. It will not replace directoral hearing,
so you still won't know where people are speaking from
when you wear that. In noisy environments, it can still
(34:19):
be harder for you to hear with a hearing aid
like that, but it can have benefits where you don't
miss out. For example, at a at a function or
at a dinner, if somebody talks to your death site,
you will still be able to hear that, and so
it can be useful for that. If you're interested in
directional hearing, you can place a copler implant on that side.
(34:39):
That is not funded in New Zealand, but it is
a possibility through the private sector and that will give
you directional hearing back. But obviously that is an operation
and a significant cost associated with that as well.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Hey, thanks for your call, Julia. Hey, just quickly, how
long does it take people to get used to wearing
a hearing aid? Generally, what's the range Michelle.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, it's it's hard to sell. I think everybody's different,
but I try and get my patience to get persevere
for six to twelve months. I think they'll notice the
benefit quite early, but it takes six to twelve months
to fully get used to it. You should also remember
(35:19):
it will not you have to have the right expected.
It's not normal hearing that you're getting. You're getting great
benefit in certain situations and not in others. Noise environments
are always going to be difficult, but you will get
benefit and you have to persevere wearing them because everything
sounds weird initially and then it comes right.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Okay, we're going to take quick break and we'll say
what if we can squeeze through some more calls in
the limited time we have left. It is eleven minutes
to five News Talk, said b Hi. Welcome back to
the Health Tim Beverage with doctor Michelle Nephi's a hearing
specialist E and T specialists. More specifically, quick question Michelle,
retrade ease ear plugs versus muffs? Any difference? What would
(35:59):
you recommend?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Much so much better? You know, you get better range
of better seal and yeah, I mean, some people even
were the plugs and muffs on top of it, you know,
so both together is fine. I guess plus is better
than nothing. But if there's a choice, definitely.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Noise canceling technology muffs as well, or is that problematic?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
No? I mean that's sort of adds to it. But
I think just a simple ear muff is all this neat.
I don't think you have to go down the technology
right a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Is there a description as the noise reduction that you
need to look for on the label?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah? I mean most of the commercial ones they have
a label on there, and the tradees normally know which
ones to go for. I think if you get the
pack that has got a mask and something else and
something else in it for five dollars, it's probably no good.
You have to spend a bit of money.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, okay, right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 9 (36:57):
George hello, oh yes, hello George here and hello doctor.
I've got a you know, a real timatous issue which
is extremely loud and it doesn't ever go away, and
(37:17):
it varies, you know, from tolerable to almost extreme. It
seems to come in at odd times. But coupled with it,
I had something which is called a hyper curses and
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that's right, but the
sensitivity to sounds and so we're trying hearing aids at
(37:44):
the moment, and it's a bit tricky with the hyper
curses a good terrible distortion. So to listen to music
which I was a musician and I loved the music,
I cannot listen to particularly the high notes might ear.
(38:07):
Is just the store like amplifier or you know, so
what is the much done?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Or okay, okay?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I think yeah, persevere, George, I think keep going with
the hearing aids. There are two problems here. Obviously, you
don't want to hear anything for the hyperocuruses. You want
to hear to dampen the tinatus, and I think that's
what your audiologist is trying to do. But it takes time.
The hypercurses is at a brain level, so you need
to expose your brain to more sound to get used
(38:40):
to it, and do it slowly. Just use the hearing
aids a little bit, maybe for a minute or two
at a time, and then slowly increase and it will
slowly get better. It takes a long time. It's probably
been there for years, so it will take years to
get better.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Right, I think we've running out of time for any
more calls. But just I guess if people have got
can you do di y sort of hearing testing to
make yourself think i'd been go and see someone on
what what's your advice on people if they've if they've
got any curiosity about how their hearing health is.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
There are lots of apps available now, you know, on
your on your smartphones, you can run an app and
just check your hearing the health app on the iPhones,
they've got a hearing health app on there as well
now and you can even tune your the more modern
ear pods to like a hearing aid device, you know.
So yes, it's quite reliable now and it's a good
(39:35):
thing to do, especially you know, if you think you've
got blocked ears ringing in your ear, just run an
app and if something doesn't look quite right on there,
then get a formal hearing test. So it's a good
thing to do it.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
That'd be a case of going to an audiologist, not
your GP.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Then that's correct.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, excellent, Gosh, we could have taken calls for the
next hour as well, Michelle, So really appreciate your time
this afternoon. Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Much, pleasure, thanks for having me, Jim, enjoy.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
The rest of your afternoon.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Cheerio.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
That is that wraps the health up. That's there's some
great advice and if you look, if you relate to that,
go and check out our podcast because we had calls
covering a range of topics there if you've got any
questions about your hearing. But of course, as Michelle was
saying that if you've got any questions, go and see
an audiologist, and we really thank him for his time,
really appreciate it. We'll be back with Smart Money next
(40:22):
talking well change of topics of course, the ocr and
what the Reserve Bank's going to do because we have
that bad figure around GDP. Back shortly with Hamish Pepper.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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