What an athlete mindset can teach us about pressure

What do top athletes know about pressure that the rest of us don’t? Dr Kylie Wilson is a mental skills and performance coach who has worked with Olympians, rugby stars and world champions. She joins Francesca and Louise to share some of the mental skills sports stars use that can also help us regular folks in our everyday life. Prepare to take notes on learning from failure, reframing negative stories, and building focus through routines and visualisation.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Francisca Rudkin and I'm Louis Area, and welcome
to season five of our new Zealand Here podcast, The
Little Things Good to have you with us. So in
this podcast, we're joined by experts in their field to
talk about the little things that you need to know
to improve all areas of your life. And but there's
lots of information and confusion out there, so we try
and cut through that to bring you some clarity so
you can make your own well informed decisions on your

(00:24):
well being. So you remember last season, we spoke to
Kathy Duffy, Yes, ultra Marison runner and a real advocate
of women just pursuing stuff through them see the menopause
or us or the glory us as she called them.
Last season. I was so inspired by her that I
decided to train to do a trail Morison early next year. Now,
Francisca and I have been talking about how much of
that training of foreigner event comes in the form of,

(00:48):
you know, comes down to mental toughness as much as
physical fitness, which I don't have much of either actually
at the moment, but anyway, I'm working on it. So
we've been talking techniques that sports psychologists used to help
elite sleeps. We gained focus, manage their anxiety, so motivated,
and cope with setbacks and all of those things are
really important to you at the moment, Lou, to help
you achieve your goal. But then we got to thinking,

(01:10):
which is something which happens occasionally here on the little things,
and we were like, well, I wonder if we can
actually take these tools that elite athletes use and apply
them to our everyday lives, all those little goals and
things we have for ourselves and every day just just
managing stress, managing precious situations at work, having a goal,

(01:30):
staying motivated about things. It kind of it was like,
hang on a minute, maybe there's something in this that
we that we could kind of all get on board with.
I think this is something I do in my everyday
life as well as my you know, when I'm setting
a goalf for an event, I have a habit of
saying it out loud and thinking that that the rest

(01:52):
of it will just magically unfold. And you know this
about me, and this is despiting lived experience of it
not being the case. It's never worked for me. Do
you remember that Tassic Travis, I told you I've been
doing a bit of training over summer and I did
it and know how to panic attack in the first kilometer.
Oh it was so yeah, no blessing. You were like,
you just go, just go, and I'm like, I'm not
going to leave you. And I couldn't leave you because

(02:12):
I was like, I don't know what she's going to
end up. What might just lose her on and it's
not pay her the de somewhere, but it's a metaphor
for my life. But you also did admit as we
were driving to the stat line that actually the training
had evolved quite a lot of summer beers and that
maybe you know you kind of did not on the
back of your mind, but you just now, I've just

(02:33):
entered another event that is at the end of summer. No, no, no, no,
I think you added, You're completely different this time because
you know what it entails. You've done enough to know
that you can't rock up to what you're going to
go and do without doing the work. But it is
interesting because you're doing all the strength work and you're
doing all the physical work and things, but on the day,
it's going to be your brain that gets you to
the end. It's going to be your mind that gets

(02:54):
you to that finish line. And as much as I
love running around the hills, it still gets monotonous. It
So how do you keep going? We're using you as
a little bit of a guinea pig because as much
as I've done a lot of events as well on things,
I've never used any kind of tiple technique or anything
to kind of make me mentally tough. Forthing, I've literally

(03:16):
just gritted it out. I've literally my approach has been, oh,
I just have to finish. If it means I crawl
over the finish line. I crawled over the finish line.
But I've always just gone. Remember when I was hanging
that tree at the end of the Tara Wearra Trail
Marathon and I says, Tack, you're very kindly, just like
I don't think you are. But I was sure that

(03:37):
I wasn't going to make it. And actually, once I'd
had my little moment, I then just keep going because
to me, then my mind I just go. There is
actually no other choice. So I just gritted out. But
I'm sure there's a much more sophisticated way that we
could be dealing with these problems and then of course
bringing it into our real lives. I mean, are you
I mean you've set this goal? Well I know, I
just I just entered something again. It's not the same thing.

(03:59):
I don't think you know what I mean, like you're
trying to It's a gap between knowing and doing right right. Yeah,
And I guess I also look at other people who
set goals like one year, two year, three year, five
year goals not not exercise really admire people I've got
a five or ten year goal. Well they do they
learn something I didn't learn.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
I'm not think people did tell us to set goals
and we were were fine, We're just wanting it.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Then you get to midlife and you go those goals
aren't goals. It's just actually living, being able to do something.
Do you know what I really want to get out
of this today? I want to get an idea about
how to bounce back from a setback, because I think
that in day to day life, when we're managing jobs
and families and kids and there's a lot going on,

(04:45):
there's always something's always falling over right, the ship setting
the fan somewhere, there's always a set back somewhere, and
I'm hoping that today I'm going to be able to
kind of get a tiple technical or two that just
makes me stop and pause and take a big deck
breath and actually be able to handle that and move forward,
you know, et with a bit of positivity. There's a
sign on somebody's store at work that says, if you're
going through hell, just keep going. And I think it

(05:06):
might be George or Well or something. I'm not sure,
but I'd like to change that. It's like this to pass. Yeah,
but if you're going through hell, make a plan and
visualize your way out of it. I don't know. Visualization
something I'm really going to see talk about us to
talk about as well, because it always sounds like a
really good idea, but I get halfway through it and
I get bored and I just go into something else.

(05:29):
I'm not really sure how it's supposed to work. So
that's a great commitment anyway. So to kill two birds
with one stone to help me achieve my goal and
help us all deal with the challenges that life throws
at us. We're joined by mental skills and performance coach
doctor Kylie Wilson. Kylie has a PhD in performance psychology
and is herself a former professional athlete. She has worked

(05:52):
with some of our best teams and athletes, from Olympians
to many of our national teams to help them fulfill
their potential and achieve their goals. Kylie, welcome, Thank you
so much for coming in today. Thank you for having
me so excited you're here. Can you first up, just
tell us a little bit about you and this fascinating
career that you have.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I couldn't say that it was very crafted. I
felt like I fell into it. So I actually wanted
to be a police officer. And then they said go
to university and get some life experience. So I thought
I'll be a forensic kind of criminal psychologist or criminal lawyer.
So I studied psychology and law and realized law was
not for me. So then a lot of my friends

(06:31):
I was playing rugby down Otago and they were all
doing sort of sports science. So I fell into that
and loved the kind of sports psychology aspect of it.
So didn't know where it would take me, but I
really enjoyed it. And then my supervisor at the time,
Ken Hodge, he said, do you want to do a
PhD over in the UK. My dad's Welsh, so I'd
planned to go over there anyway, And yeah, I ended

(06:52):
up sort of doing a PhD. And now it's my job.
So I feel like it's just my passion has led
me versus like me, you know, thinking oh, this is
what I'm going to do and I'm going to find
a way to do it. So feel very very lucky
that it's what I get to do for a living.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
So do you mind me asking how long guess you
goo you were at Otago? Because that those sports sciences
courses are really choc a block full of ambitious young
you know, potential sports psychologists or sports managers. Now was
it like that when you started?

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I think the physical sciences like your physiology and things
like that were far more advanced in terms of like
career pathways. Certainly Ken Hodge, who was my supervisor, would
he's still there at Otago. He would say that there's
probably only a handfuluss he'll come through that program and
actually gone on to be sports psychologists so or work

(07:45):
in that field. So I wouldn't say that the psychology
part of it was that dominant at the time.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
M interesting, how long did you played rugby Forore.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
I started Otago, so it would have been about fifteen
years I would have played for, so really good rounding
to start at Otago. Played with a lot of black
Ferns back then, and then when I moved to WLS
do my PhD. Yeah, I think after six months of
arriving I was in the Welsh team, so it was
a pretty quick promotion.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
What position were you open side.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Plankets or seven? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Did you use yourself as a bit of a guinea
pig as you were studying as well?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah. I actually really enjoyed doing that. So as I
was learning, I was just practicing all the tools myself
and my own performance, and then I was coaching as well,
so I would integrate it into my coaching and then
as part of the Welsh team you got access to
work with sports psychologists, so I kind of felt like
I had, you know, a sort of three pronged approach

(08:40):
to developing my understanding of the skills, and I feel
like that's set me up to work really well with
other coaches, So that does make sense. Having It's nice
to have the theory but been able to put it
into practice at the same time. And see it from
a different point of view from the other side. I
can imagine that was hugely valuable. Yeah, often I'd get
a little bit of a sideways look because I'd try

(09:01):
some things with the groups I was working with, and
I wouldn't say they are very traditional from what was
being taught in the coaching courses and things. But I
worked with a young Welsh team. We were I think
Wales under twenty and we were the first Welsh team
to beat England. Wow.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah at any age group.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
So in the women's side, and yeah, it was I
think some of their strategies or process I was putting
them through just made them see the game differently and
work differently together. So yeah, I loved using them as
my guinea pigs. I guess to try some things out.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Tell us a little bit about who you've worked with,
because you've worked with individuals and teams. Is that quite
a different dynamic.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Absolutely yep. So I do love working in the team space.
I like the challenge of how you get people to
work together under pressure. It's a little bit more complex,
but also yeah, I just like the team environment. So
I guess early on work with men's blacksticks, then silver Ferns,
so in the netbull space, and then sort of worked

(10:02):
in various rugby settings, so Blues, Super Rugby, lots of
the sort of NPC level New Zealand Under twenty for
a while in and out of the Black Fern sevens
and who are currently one of the teams I currently support,
and they're operating at a very high level, so you're
really challenged in what you do with them in terms
of taking them to a level that not many people

(10:24):
have been before. And then have started in November last
year with the Warriors, so that's my first time in
rugby league, which has been really exciting. And then individuals,
so working five sport New Zealand, you work with Olympic campaigns.
So I had the pleasure of working with Luca Jones
for twelve years, so she was the canoe slalem paddler
and then after her came Finn Butcher, so I worked

(10:47):
with in that sport. With those individuals, I've done a
little bit in various campaigns Trithlon weightlifting. Yes, you sort
of end up supporting a few campaigns in those different
sort of Olympic sports.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, that's a huge variation and it cannot be one
size fits all approach.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Right, absolutely not. You know, you have some principles of
practice and some approaches that are underpin your practice, but
it's how you marry those two a the individual and
be the demands of the sport. So you can imagine,
like lifting a weight above your head is a lot
different to a canoe sylm course, which is a lot
of decision making as you're going down, reading the water,

(11:26):
very sort of being present in the moment, versus a
kind of very short, sharp like aggressive power movement. So
you've got to really look at the demands of the
sport to see what's needed, but also how the individual
approaches that. So you spend a lot of time actually
trying to learn the person and then apply your knowledge
to that person and see what kind of joins up.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
So it's it's an art versus science most of the time.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
It must also be quite interesting. As you say, you
work with the Warriors, and I love the NRL. We're
big Warriors fans in our house, but my goodness, they
put us through the ring fans, right, So, but that's
week to week compared to when you're dealing with an Olympian.
They have got this campaign and they work for four
years and then you have this one moment. You know,

(12:11):
that's that's a completely different pressure, isn't it It is?

Speaker 3 (12:14):
It's I think what like for in Severns, for example,
is an Olympic sports both play the World Series every
year so that they're you know, it's not like they
don't do anything and then just do that, but it's
all roads lead to the Olympics. You know, you're always
that's sort of your focus. Is what we're doing now
going to get us to we want to be by
the Olympics. So the narrative is definitely like, yeah, it's
it's this real pinnacle moment and what someone like you

(12:37):
know Canuslalem for example, that they are pretty under the
radar for four years and then suddenly not a lot
of So it's a lot of the external noise and
attention and distraction that is quite novel to manage. And
so we did do a lot of work about talking
about preparing for it, but there's nothing like experiencing it.

(12:57):
And that's why you normally see most people do better
at their seat in Olympics in there first because they
figure out how to better deal with that sort of distraction,
noise and the chaos of kind of the Olympic environment,
which it is, it is pretty interesting environment.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
And as spectators with the Olympics, he's always that one
sport where you know, we didn't know anything about and
then suddenly we're seeing it all the time, and then
we're fully backing that person and that's I mean, I
don't know if they feel that pressure, but you know,
it's quite incredible. It's like with the pole volt, wasn't
Eliza mcahey. Yeah, yeah, it's like, I mean, but just
being in a meeting that day. It was a sad day,
but I had a meeting and we just all stopped
and you know, watched because we were just so suddenly

(13:35):
obsessed by this one individual sport.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, it's a really interesting kind of point in your
identity development. You know, you go from being not recognized
and not really you know, that's not important, and then
suddenly you know and Atho I work with one a
gold medal and was suddenly like you know, he said,
the Prime Minister text him. He was like, what the hell,
what's going on? You know, like why am I suddenly white?

(13:59):
A pea will suddenly get interested? So it's an interesting
shift for them in terms of how they think the
world sees them. Suddenly is someone special or important and
yeah that they've got They have to process that because
it changes the way they kind of hold themselves, I guess.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
So it's interesting. So why does an athlete come to you?
What do they hope to get from working with you?

Speaker 3 (14:20):
I think of a variety of reasons. Like I think
traditionally it would be because maybe something's not working like
they feel it should be. Maybe they feel like they've
got potential but they can't access it at the right time.
Maybe they have a specific issue like anxiety or something
like that. But sometimes athletes, and this is happening more
and more regularly now, is they they just want to

(14:42):
know how to get as much out of themselves as
they can. So it's not a deficit model. It's a
real how do I optimize myself through using mental strategy?
So that's definitely more of the case now. It's become
so much more normalized in terms of you know, you
have a nutritionists and you have a strengthening conditioning coach,
and you have your mindset coach. So it's now something

(15:03):
that is just part of a team of people that
help that person or that team get the most out
of themselves.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, that's really interesting you say that about the deficit
model versas, so they've got a platform and they're looking
to expand on that rather than they know that they
personally struggling with something psychologically or whatever. Yeah, and we
all have those little struggles, and we all have those
imposter syndrome that must come into it sometimes too, does
it absolutely?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
And most of it's interesting because most of the athletes
who I get to work with, the lucky enough are
pretty have got to a high level and so they've
always been probably the big fish or yeah, the fish
in the small pond or whatever, and so when they
get up to that really elite level, sometimes things don't

(15:54):
work quite as well as they used to. So it's
not necessarily that there's a deficit, but they have to
find new ways to either attacker an opposition or a
competition or things like that.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
So, yeah, Kylie, can you identify what it is about
an athlete that makes them successful?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
It's normally not one thing. I think one of the
biggest things is they're really high level of self awareness
of both their strengths and potentially the things that don't
help them that much. So their understanding of you know,
I like to use a phrase the light self and
the shadow self, you know, so they understand that their

(16:32):
shadow self and what holds them back, and they're really
willing and courageous to kind of dive into going how
can I shift that? You know, So that it's interesting
because you know, people will just go, oh, they're superhuman
and things like that, but they're actually the really human
people who are choosing to do something that's scrutinized, not

(16:53):
saying it's difficult, but it's scrutinized, and so they have
to really know themselves and how that's going to impact them,
and they're willing to.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Look at that.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
So I would say that's the biggest differentiator between potentially
the athletes who you know, really push on is they're
not living in a fake world of trying to pump
their own ties up.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
You know.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's very authentic and they're able to say, yeah, I'm
not so good in those moments my mind goes there,
my heart doesn't really take me to the right place
or whatever it is, and they're willing to use the
resources to help them sort of address that.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
See, I think that's something you know, because one of
the reasons we wanted to talk to you today was
we are fascinated by the world of the athlete and
how you get those extra increments of success. But also
we all could do with a little bit of you know,
understanding our lighter what did you call it? The lifelight

(17:50):
itself and shadows? Yeah, yeah, I mean how often do
we We often sort of grit our way through things
and we just wonder if there might be a bit
doing it sometimes.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
And you know it's I think they're in the fortunate
position that, you know, their job creates space for them
to explore that, you know, so it's a really encouraged
and coaches now phenomenal it's at not setting up environments
where you're failing or you're not doing as well as

(18:24):
we want you to go and see that person, you know,
they're actually saying, well, just like, how can you know,
how can you get more out of yourself or hold
yourself in a different way if that's what you choose
to do. And so you've got the environments now much
more supportive of kind of holding that shadowself a little
bit more tolerant rather than I know, you just know

(18:45):
you can't cope go, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
So I'm sure that you know, to be an elite athlete,
you've got to have a bit of natural ability, and
you've obviously got to be able to work really hard
and everything. But kind of what I hear you saying
is that we could actually all reach our potential if
we want.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
To do yeah, whatever and whatever that is you choose
to do, right, And I think, you know, when I
think about high performance athletes, it's they're just pursuing something
they're passionate about and skilled at, you know, so they've
been told from a young age probably that this is
something that they're good at, so it becomes their passion maybe,

(19:20):
but it's anything anyone who's in pursuit of something important
to them. The ability to understand how you function in
both strength and maybe some things that hold you back,
and how you can work with that that will help
you achieve, you know, closer to whatever that potential is,
you know, whatever that you choose to be doing, whether

(19:41):
it's parenting relationships, pursuing a career goal, a physical goal,
whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
So yeah, I really.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Like that because I'm in my early fifties, but I
still believe that my best days are ahead. I mean,
I'm very happy with the years that have gone by, really,
but I just I don't know where I've been blissfully
naive or whether that really truly maybe I've beaked. I'm
not sure, but I do like that. I do like
that thought. No, my best days of silly head, who

(20:08):
knows what I might potentially achieve. Yeah, No, I'm not big.
I'm not a big one on staying static. But once,
something you just said was about the things that hold
us back, and I think I think I think about
the things that hold me back, probably too much, and
then I sort of almost accept that as a as
a block. Yeah, so anyway, that's probably too personal. But

(20:31):
you know, it's like that's all I can think about
now is Oh, I'm almost thinking about why I can't
do something instead of why I can. So maybe there
I need to start.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Some of the work I do with athletes is really
sitting in that space and going where do these stories
and thoughts come from? And why do I show up
in these situations and not others? And how could we
perhaps find different ways to speak to ourselves, particularly when
we're in moments under the most scrutiny in the most pressure,

(21:03):
and so that's a lot of a lot of the
work we do is maybe a little bit of understanding
why so that that inside allows you to perhaps be
a little bit more compassionate to yourself when those things
show up, and understanding of yourself and then develop some
different ways to perhaps think that tapping into maybe some
of the strengths you do have, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
That is absolutely a technique that you can take into
your day to day life, something that we can use
in our day to day lives. Say, you know, you're
just kind of not really satisfied with how things are
going at work. Maybe as you said, you're not really
you know, you're finding parenting just a bit hard and
you're hitting a wall there. It's just it's just about
taking a moment and stepping back and being honest with
yourself about And I don't think we want to do

(21:45):
this all the time. We don't want to because we
don't want to focus on potentially negative or something that
we're deficient at. But taking a look and going at you,
I'm not okay, I'm not coping with this so well,
and I'm not dealing with this so well or I'm
lacking patients or I'm doing it. You know, so you
have just have that really honest conversation with yourself to
work out the pros and con so to speak, and
then how do you then? What do you do? Well?

Speaker 3 (22:07):
It's I think it's what's the block that keeps showing up?
And why does that exist? I think that's really important,
and sometimes we don't potentially have the tools to answer
those questions introspectively in our own minds. And that's why
talk having that's why therapy is really really powerful. You
know that some to ask you the different questions that

(22:29):
help you put the puzzle together and create that understanding.
And then what might be some different ways we could
speak to ourselves think in this moment, because it's a
little bit like, you know, perfectionism. You know, most of
the athletes I work with a highly perfectionistic and so
anything that isn't perfect is a complete failure.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
So it's that real.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Black and white kind of binary thinking, whereas sometimes you
might say, not necessarily like I failed, but what was
what was the good bits? And well they're not so
good bits, So you create a little bit more gray
from the black and white and they have to practice
that because most people have thinking styles that are quite ingrained,

(23:14):
you know, and so they're quite hard to change. So
it's like anything, if you want to change any habit, smoking,
more exercise, whatever, it's like, you know, the more your
times you do it, the more strong, stronger that habit becomes.
So you've really got to work at kind of driving
your thinking into different ways.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
You're just talking about habits and the more you do
it and things, and for a lot of athletes, they
become very good at what they do because they do
the basics over and over again. We sort of translate
that into real life. It doesn't sound terribly motivating, well
not when you've when you might have multiple goals in
front of you. So most of us are a lot

(23:53):
of us are parenting, in a relationship, working, and hopefully
have some personal fitness or well being goal. So it
is quite you know, heading all of those notes, I mean,
I'm not taking anything away, but how good to be
a pressional with me? And that's it. You get up.
You're a professional athlete on the daily. Although the scrutiny
would be pretty pretty tough, and also the funding and

(24:15):
the uncertainty, none of us survive all that well and
that uncertain area or either do we be curious to
know a little bit more about how how they manage
that uncertainly But that's probably a different conversation. How do
you go about it?

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I mean most the ethics I work with are in relationships.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And in parents.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
True, yeah, they've got multiple demands on them.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think they get very skilled.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
I'm going to call it compartmentalizing, so being able to
go right, what's this demand? What does this require of me?
You know, whether whether they drive into the building or
turn up to the track or whatever it is, and say,
what's required of me now? And how do I bring
my best self to this? And then when they become
you know, go home and be the parent that they
do the same thing. So they're very good at sort

(24:57):
of distinguishing the different spaces that are and really been
quite purposeful about what they want to bring to those spaces.
And I guess it's recognizing changeable priorities very quickly, you know,
so they might even go from and it is quite quick.
But you know, the athletes, the teams I'm working at

(25:18):
the moment, you know, they'll play and within ten minutes
they'll be reviewing, So they go into a learning space
like that, you know, from being really hyped up and
a drilline pumping to being you know, deconstructing what happened
has happened in learning. So you know, they're very good
at kind of changing I guess the requirements and what
spaces they need to be in and bouncing between those

(25:40):
spaces as quickly as possible. So that's this, you know,
the training environment is set up for them to really
practice that.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I guess that's true when I think about it.
I've known a couple of professional athletes in my life
in different social settings, one where I was much younger
and one more recently. They are definitely quite focused characters
on Well, actually that's probably not true. The one that
I knew when we were younger, you couldn't you were
you would be with him, but his mine wasn't right
with us, do you know what I mean? Like he

(26:08):
found that social versus the responsibilities of what he was doing.
I think it was the captain of the black Caps
at the time or something that you know, you could
feel it when it was with them all the time.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
I set up deliberately to train that in them. Yeah,
because that's a performance characteristic, you know, so it's not
a surprise that they're good at it. Lots of them
actually struggle when they retire and go into workplace settings
that people just seem to get distracted so easily. You
know that they're quite that's something they that surprises them.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
You know that they.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
People kind of really like have I can't prioritize or
compartmentalize very well, and they're actually amazing in most settings
I go into.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
I bet they are. Yeah, I always felt a bit
of a hot message all those kind of people. You're
listening to the little things, and I guess On the
podcast today is mental skills and performance coach doctor Curlie
Wilson talking to us about how we can take tools
elite athletes use and apply them to our everyday lives.
We'll be back shortly after this break. Welcome back, Culie.

(27:19):
We were just talking about focus there and refocusing and look,
I am so easily distracted. And I work from home
a lot, right, so I can have three things on
the gual once. I can be doing some work while
I'm also doing you know, something around the house and
be thinking about something else entirely as well. But makes
me sound very scattered ourselves to do that as well.
So yes, yeah, yeah, possibly, how do we during our

(27:42):
day stay focused or bring the attention back to what
it is that we should be focusing on.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I think you name something there is the art and
the skill of multitasking.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, and aft I don't want to do, to be
honest with you, Yeah, and that's that's the question.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
So I always use phrases like is that helpful or unhelpful?
Versus is it a good thing or a bad thing?
Because sometimes you will need to multitask, so you need
to be able to you know, hopefully have the capacity
the bandwidth to be able to do that. But when
you do want to hone in, you know, lots of
the athletes will just say, like the question I used

(28:15):
before is like, what what does this require of me?
So you go into it going I'm not just going
to launch into it. I'm going to do one moment.
I've kind of prep for it to go what's this requiring,
what's the priority, what's the skills I need? What's the
way I want to approach it? So quite often their
prep enables them to make really good decisions about where
to put their attention, and they're also able to through

(28:38):
skills like just bringing their attention maybe to their breath,
doing a little bit of mindfulness things like that. Like
lots of the athletes I work with integrate mindfulness into
their preparation just to reduce the chaos, reduce the noise,
reduce the frequency in their mind down to something really
simple so that they can then go into that thing
with a huge amount of intense focus on that soul task.

(29:00):
And so they practice their ability of going multitasking, you know,
lots lots of chaos down to something really really simple,
whether it's a breath. Some of the sailors I used
to work, where you just used to listen to the
wind against the sail, whereas that's happening all the time,
but they're not paying attention to it necessarily. So lots
of skills like that that help them prepare to be focused.

(29:23):
So I think that's quite a big difference is they
know what's required of them and they prep themselves to
meet the demands of that task. They don't just go,
you know, like fall into it, and they have these
little routines everywhere they go.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I like that I might set myself up a little
routine when I sit down to write at home, or
I sit down to prep and things like that. You
were talking before about the way we talk to ourselves,
and I like the way. You know, my thought would
have been, oh, I shouldn't be doing this, I'm distracting,
but I like the way you I should think it
more along the lines of Francisca. This isn't helpful to
just stop, you know, Is that what you're talk about

(29:57):
when it comes to the way you talk.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
To Yeah, not that I want this to turn to
a therapy session, but when you speak to yourself, what
I hear is judgment I should So there's obviously an
expectation of what it should look like and you're not
meeting it. And judgmental thought keeps us in a hypercritical space,
whereas when we're wanting to perform, it's like we need to,

(30:19):
I guess, loosen the shackles of judgment. And so, you know,
how do I want to be rather than how do
I think people expect me to be?

Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know what else? What about stressful moments? What about
when you might be doing a presentation, work, you might
have a challenge on your hands. Is a lot going
on what's a good way for us to handle sort
of those stressful moments in our lives.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, well there's two bits to that. I think one
is understanding why you're creating the stress because often it's
like we talk about pressure as facts plus stories.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
So the fact is the Warriors are playing a knockout game,
you know, do a die kind of a game, So
that's a fact. Factors we're playing penrith of one more
times than us, that's a fact. The stories become you know,
are we good enough to beat them? What are people
going to think?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
So it's really.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Recognizing, like, what are the stories that you're bringing into
that moment that makes it stressful. So preparing for a presentation,
for example, is you know, the factors I've got fifteen
minutes to talk about the thing I know the most about.
It's a pretty good fact, you know, like and so
the stories that could flaff that is what a great
opportunity to kind of go into the space where I
feel most passionate and confident versus are people going to

(31:35):
think I'm good? Or you know, like, so, how can
you make the stories work for you? There's always gonna
be stories, but how can you perhaps make them work
for you a little bit versus against you. And it's
really being able to pick the stories that are going
to work against you and being able to challenge them,
you know, because you're creating something anyway, you might as
well make it something helpful.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, And it comes back to dealing with that judgment. Yes,
And as much as we all pretend that you know,
other people's opinions of us none of our business, they
do creep in. Yeah, And so it's just how you
check that at the gate, you know, like make sure
you're you're acting as the bouncer and you only want
the cool kids in the club, you know, like the
the good stories, the helpful stories. But I think the

(32:14):
best example of this is you know, the All Blacks
And I've only read this, I'm not first hand knowledge,
but you know they talked about pressures of privilege, and
so they changed the story is something they wanted to
walk towards, versus that was off the back of them
perhaps underperforming at World Cups and you know, label chokers
and all that. So they created a different story. Pressures

(32:36):
of privilege.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
It's something we want, we want to be in that moment,
it means we've done really, really well. It means we've
got all the skills to meet the challenge. So they
just created a whole different story around this pressure moment,
and you know, they all talk about that has been
quite an influential thing on the way they start to
think about it. That they then were excited to play
the final versus you know, focusing on what will the

(32:59):
country do and how people treat us and.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
All of that. Yeah, that I can't That upsets me.
I get worried for people when we put that kind
of external pressure. There's actually got nothing to do with
the performance in the outcome of the game, which is
it's crazy. Our athletes better at handling failure. Do you
think from the average person they get good at that?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I wouldn't say they enjoy it, you know, like because
that's that's like the exam they take at the end
of studying for four years or whatever it is. It's
if they really want to do well, and so failure
is really really difficult.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
But do they learn from it?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I suppose.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
I think the first thing is that like no one,
no athlete I've known, has ever won an Olympic title
or a World championship or a you know, without failing,
like it's part of the deal, you know.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
And so I think.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Their ability to go, what's this going to teach me?
What can I take from it? What has it shown
me that I need to go and address or whatever
it's like, or where's a skill gap or whatever it is.
And I think their superpower is getting over the disappointment
and the feeling of losing or failing and really going

(34:19):
into like, what can I learn from this house It's
going to make me better? You know. So sometimes it
takes them a fair while, but often it will be
the stimulus that helps them kick on to a new
level so they realize it's really like, you can't really
go through a sporting career without experiencing it, so, you know,
getting so caught up with it and you know, is

(34:41):
not workable.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Oh it's funny, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Not all about you?

Speaker 1 (34:44):
It's not your mate. It might feel like it's your
identity and everything about you, but it's not necessarily.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yes, And that's a lot of work that we do
with the athletes is really ensuring that their whole sense
of who they are and they're worth as a person
isn't tied up with the scoreboard, you know that they're
able to look at. Yeah, we might not have won,
but that part of our game really grew or I
learned lots about myself in that situation. I can use
that next time.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
So yeah, you know, and look, there's so much going
on at the moment out there in the job market
and things, and people are losing jobs and that can
be really you know, it is a very difficult thing
to go through. But once again, it's reminding yourself that
what you do isn't necessarily who you are. Yes, yeah,
I think you can play a large part of it.
But and it's really difficult when people rely on you,

(35:30):
you know, sustainable living and you know, like shelter and
food and all that. So that puts a huge amount
of real pressure on But again, it's if you're in
a situation where that stress is meaning it's limiting either
how you attack that next opportunity to you know, get

(35:51):
a job or whatever, then you need to kind of
figure out how to address that. You know, is it
holding you back from doing the things that you want
to do, whether it's applying for jobs or whatever. I
mentioned failure before, because I want to know how you
come back from a setback.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Well, again, I think setbacks, like the word even the
word failure, is like they're all part of the journey.
So it's hopefully it's not come back from, it's grow from.
You know, like a lot of the athletes, like the
blackfin sevens, you know, they lost the Rio Olympic final,
and I think they might not have won the next

(36:28):
one if they hadn't have done that, so because they
got so much sharper and more focused on what they
needed to do.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Because of that.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
So while you feel at that time it's really really
disappointing that, I think it's normally the catalyst. If you've
got a growth mindset and an environment that promotes that,
then you know it's normally the catalyst for that real
shartening of your prioritization, your areas of focus, and so
they get very deliberate about what they do because of

(36:55):
those experiences.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
I just watched a schoolboy's final rugby game and at
the end, you know, the winning team were just over
the moon, right and they had not one for a
long time. In that setting. The team that I was
supporting had won it. They were going for a three peet.
They were on the ground crying absolutely, and look have
your moment. That's actually fine. But in my head I

(37:18):
was like, oh, pressures off for next year. They don't
have to do or four feet you know. I was
saying to my son, well that you go next year
is a whole new blank canvas for you. Guys. They
were going to see it like that in the moment,
but I think they're already sort of focused on Oh yeah, growth,
you know, for next time, we'll know we don't perhaps
think we have it in the bag before we play
the game. Yea, what is a growth mindset? Well, how

(37:39):
do you get one?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, it's it's basically approaching all your experiences as a
chance to get better, whether that's winning. And I think
that's a That's why I like to frame it like
that because often we don't learn as hard from winning.
You know, we go, oh, that felt good or it
was great, and then we kind of move on to
the next thing, whereas we di sect failure. One of

(38:01):
my philosophies is we've got to dissect winning, and not
just winning, but really good performance, even regardless of outcome.
So if someone's nailed something in their performance, go, let's
dissect it so that we start building our blueprint of
what works. Because I think as high performance athletes we
tend to be biased. I say we as if I'm
in high performance an there, but they tend to be

(38:21):
biased towards negative because that's going to be where they
think they'll get the most growth from. But often it's
you know, if you keep honing what you're really good at,
and you keep cultivating your ability to put that on
the table more often, then your performance tends to grow
and you'll naturally work on this stuff. But I think
if we become too biased on our deficits and our weaknesses, we.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Really impacts our confidence.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
That's really interesting because my daughter is at a school
where they believe in individualized education and they promote and
focus on what you're really good at, and yeah, if
you're not so good at the English and there's, they'll
work on that, but hey, let's focus on what you're
really good at. And interestingly, the things that you're not
so good at just slowly they actually do just slowly.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Over timely because you know, we bring it.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Why someone you know really improved or mastered a part
of their performance, it sets up their really strong framework
for how to approach things they're not so good at,
and so they start to then apply that same same
philosophies or frameworks to improve their deficits. And they do
that from a confidence set rather than I can't be

(39:31):
useless at this.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
You know.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
It's just it's a really subtle shift, but it's I've
seen it make quite a big difference in just how
people keep showing up to their challenging the challenging parts
of their job because they're really clear on why they're
good at what they're good at.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Huh. I like that, Yeah, I do too. I Mean
I've heard growth mindset thrown around for many years. I
have never heard it explained as well. It was perfect
approach as a chance to, you know, get better at
the things.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
That are assurances provide you an opportunity to improve and
get better, you know, whether that's winning, losing, or mastering
something or not quite heading the mark that it's just
having that ability to go, what's this.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Going to teach me?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know if we take if we take right that chance.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
And that's why they call it a mindset, because it's
a real philosophy, you know. And so if you and
some of the best coaches I work with just keep
that philosophy bubbling away. You know, they kind of like,
because it's really easy when you get pressure from funders
or sponsors or whatever, just to start going to that,
like we need to just win this game, you know,

(40:37):
so we can't be useless at these things anymore. You know,
it's really easy to fold to that.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Well, that's the brutal part for sport, isn't it. It's
it's it's really brutal when it comes to funding. And
even when you see them sitting with the Olympians, you know,
how much money how many of these types of athletes
can we even take, even though we might have plenty
excellent ones.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, and some who make the qualification standard, but still
you know, can't go And that's really tough. And I
think the funding model has changed for the better that
there's a lot more security. You know, lots of them are
on at least two years, most of some of them
on four, and that gives them a sense of, you know,
just space to try some things, because I think when

(41:19):
if you're on a year by year funding, your willingness
to go, okay, we're going to not focus on outcomes
for these sets things are going to try some different
strategies and we may get outcomes, but it's not our focus.
But long term that's going to help us. So I
think it's made athletes potentially have the space a bit
bit more courageous.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And look, I'm and research and we're also on contractor
contract basis is the funding and you have to have
a decent track record to get to the funding again,
and it's quite cruel. I'm in a business that lives
and dies. Well, that's right, tractor as well.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
But I think you've got to practice, you know, I
try and practice what I preach to go you people
will employ me or not, but I can't too far
far away from my philosophies, you know, like otherwise you're
kind of doing work and internal tension. There's always tension
in the environment, but you've got to kind of have
your set of values that you kind of try and keep,

(42:14):
you know, committed to and then make people. People can
make decisions, you know, about whether you fit them or don't.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I like that too. That's great. And Lou mentioned self
doubt and imposter syndrome earlier as well, and I'm sure
that when it comes to you know, you're talking before
about acknowledging what you're actually good at and why you're here,
and that must come into play if you if you're
struggling a little bit, just sort of wondering what on
earth you're doing in a particular job or in a
situation you're in.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, there's she's a pretty prolific social media person. But
Alona Ma, she's Oh, I love playing at the rugbyl
Cup and she was asked the question said, oh, you know,
do you suffer from imposter syndromes? You wouldn't know, you know,
not at all, because I know what I'm good at.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
It was just like a really refreshing kind of just
a bold statement to go no, because I know what
I'm worth, like, I know what I'm good at. And
whilst that's quite aspirational, I think it's a good kind
of reminder for us to not get too forgetful or
distant from those things and actually be quite deliberate.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Sometimes.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
You know, people are now journaling and what am I
grateful for? But often it's like what am I proud
of about myself and what I'm doing? You know, And
with a lot of the athletes I work with, it's
that deliberate practice of sitting down and going I've got
these strengths. Yeah, that's right, and those strengths can help
me you tackle a challenge I might have, so not
kind of just going with the flow, but actually pause

(43:42):
moments to check in on those things.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
And she does that also with such a flair, sense
of humour and all those other things, so that it
doesn't even come off as cocky or as fabulous. And
she's a great role model. Before we wrap up, Kaylie,
can we ask you about visualization. Do you ever use it?

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Absolutely? I'm actually a really skilled visualizer myself, and to
the point where I'm quite an anxious driver when my
kids are in the car and I visualize like accidents,
you know, so they're not good. It's good visualization, but
very vivid.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, I use it a lot.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
The ethics I work with use it a lot for
a variety of reasons. One is, you know, we talk
about being really clear on your strengths. Seeing yourself exhibit
those strengths ahead of time is a really powerful source
of clarity and confidence, you know. So lots of the
players that I work with for the weekend coming up,

(44:38):
they'll be visualizing themselves executing the plays, you know, seeing
themselves really powerfully stepping into their role, you know, and
so they'll draw a lot of clarity and confidence from
that visualization. But I use it for a lot of
a variety of other sort of sources. That's quite a
traditional way to use it. I use it for actually coping.
So the ethics I work with imagine something not going

(45:01):
so well and how they're going to respond to that.
So they visualize themselves responding and how they'll feel when
something doesn't go quite right, and then how they want
to turn that round or connect with something one of
their strengths and then step forward into the next challenge.
So it's not just all visualizing perfect it's visualizing responding
to imperfection and responding challenge, responding to setbacks.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
But you're not getting to the point where they know
the answer to everything if it goes wrong, because you
need to you don't know necessarily what's going to happen.
You need to be flexible and they able to adapt
to the moment too, don't you.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
If they visualize twenty scenarios, they will tend to have
the same cluster of things that will help them react.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Right, Okay, cool, So from a practical point of view,
what is that like a are you closing your eyes
and visualizing it or you're writing it down like what's
the most powerful?

Speaker 3 (45:50):
So again, depending on the person, so you try and
match it. So most of them will close their eyes
and visualize that. Some of them need like a prompt,
so they might use video, watch a bit of video,
and then they'll close their eyes and imagine something. Very
dedicated athletes I work with actually record their voices through

(46:11):
like an imagery script, so it's their own voice, and
then they'll listen to and go, Okay, now you're approaching
the breakdown and you're getting low in your like.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
They've created their own meditation in a sense.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, and so, and some of them will go to
the degree where rugby players, for example, will have their
headgear on that they're wearing, they'll have their mouth guarden
while they're listening to their you know, their own kind
of guided visualization script.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
And they're up with the ball in hand.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Because that all of that stimulates really strong kinesthetic feedback,
which makes the brain basically fire as if it was
doing it.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, that's incredible.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
So it's not.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Like just like Usain Bolt going I'm going to be
in the front. I'm going to get over that line
first with my arms behind me, and everyone else is
going to be You've got to do the whole move.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
So I can't speak for him, but I can imagine
like he would visualize himself just in depth, the sensations
of driving up when the gun goes, yeah, and that
reaction time, you know, and feeling that I'm never worked
in sprinting, but it's like feeling that power threw his
legs down to the ground, you know, and all of
those things. It would be very you'd want to create

(47:21):
as much century experience with it so that the brain
really like replicates what's going on.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
It's going to say, you're just creating that repetition, must
be creating kind of pathways in the brain so that
reaction and things just so familiar.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
And then the other really strong area that I prolifically
use it in his recovery from injury.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
So in two.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Ways, one athletes actually visualizing their whatever the area of
their body is that is injured recovering. So that's an
interesting it's quite a bit of research on that. And
then the other one is because they can't get the
mental physical reps, and they basically just do mental reps,
you know, so they'll imagine themselves training. So and the Warriors,

(48:05):
for example, a lot of the players who are injured
will be behind kind of the training session as they're playing,
as they're going through their processes, and they'll be kind
of standing there but visualizing them in those positions, you know.
So they're not able to physically run or whatever or catchable,
but they're getting through the mental reps so when they
come back, their decision making is up to general speed.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, that's really cool. I love that. If ever, because
a lot of players would get injured, I'm just thinking
at schoolboy rugby level, and yeah, some of them I
don't want to go to a game, can't play, you know.
Actually they should go to every single training just show
up and watch and be involved as much as they can.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, it depends on the length of injury.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
I think sometimes, like what ACLS, for example, you'd probably
give them a bit of time because it's a long injury,
you know, so being training when too early would be hard.
But as they're starting to run again, definitely, like yeah,
sort of from six months on with in an ac L, recovery.
They would be doing as much as many reps as

(49:08):
the active players, but they're only just doing mentally.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
So as you're as my knee repairs low, I'll come
and watch you do trail marathons and I'll be right there.
I'll be ready to go. If I get a colder,
a small injury that I can recover from, I'll just
I'll just stay at home and watch other people run
mountain marathons and measure myself. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah, and with like you know, VR and things like that.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I was just thinking that, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
That's been used a little bit in visualization work, and.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
It must help even if everything doesn't go as you
visualized it, because you know, you've got or do they
visualize things like you say, if they visualize a lot
of potential outcomes from one.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Yeah, so you know, ebbs and flow it spending on
what sports Michael phelps. He talks a lot about the
use of or his use of visualization, and he used to,
you know, for example, visualize his goal will coming off,
you know, and having to swim blind and then actually
finish the race, you know, like not having his eyes
open basically, so he visualized those scenarios. You know what

(50:10):
if you know, whatever, something happens if he gets you know,
false start and then he asked the thing and how
is he going to approach the next start? And imagine
being just as courageous as that first one, not holding
back or you know, things like that. So just all
those different scenarios for the different athletes I work with
you that they yeah, because you've basically got to manage

(50:31):
your load, you know, physical load, and so their mind
can supplement that for them if they choose to do so.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
I think I might have been misunderstanding manifesting and visualizing.
You're just brilliantly.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Bening.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
But it's that serves a purpose because it might be
a better motivation, a bit of like you know, like aspiration,
I know.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
But you get halfway through and go what was I thinking?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yes, so maybe visualizing when you're in the trend hard
and how are you going to move through?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
That be a good addition for you.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Have we covered off motivation? Oh well, we're not born?
Are we born with it?

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Are we born with it? I think there's like there's
definitely like a genetic environmental early y air thing. But I
think if someone has the opportunity to find their passion,
then motivation is not an issue, right, Yeah, good point.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
So maybe you should be questioning your questioning what you're
doing if you've seen no motivation to do it, your choices.
I love it. That's a good party. That was fascinating.
Thank you so much. Right the ways, I think we've

(51:51):
got to the bottom of visualization, and it's a little
bit cooler than I thought it would be. It's definitely
cooler than I thought. Well, actually it is cool, and
it really does answer that question that I said at
the art set that of my thing of going, oh,
I visualized, I'm going to get to that thing and
I'm going to get to the end of it. It's
not a bit more complex than that, no, but you're
going to get this clarity and this confidence. It's going

(52:13):
to help with our coping. I love the fact that
I'm going to try and use it for my injury,
you know, and sort of help that to you know,
use that for as a bit of motivation thing. So
I thought that was great because I'm a bit like you.
I've heard about people talk about it and just sit
and visualize it, but I didn't quite understand what you
were going to do, Like, yeah, that's how it all
sort of worked and unfolded and what the point of

(52:33):
it was. And also there's not one way to do
it either, there's several ways. So you might find me
in my running shoes and my running gear, but not
out in the hills just visualizing it. No, I'm an athlete.
I just visualize it. Yeah, I know the trail running
is going great. Visual I'm visualizing it, you know, weakly.
I'm just looking. I've written down so many I've written

(52:54):
down so many little the facts and the stories. Love that, Yes,
the stories that we el. Yes, I've got helpful and
I'm helpful. That's that is a really good thing for me.
That's a really nice way to ask yourself. The question
with it, you know what you're doing is yeah, and
I think we're done hid for But I didn't make
a habit of it. No, And it's all about that
language that you use and how you make the language.

(53:15):
I suppose this a little bit more positive and helpful
as opposed to just negative and compassionate. Yeah, and judge E,
So that was I love that as well. I'm totally
I have been really trying this year on dealing with
my attention span, and I think we've spoken about this
in an episode or two. I'm just really aware that
I'm trying to do everything all at once and respond

(53:36):
to this and respond to that, and do this and
do that. And I am going to be a little
bit more focused, shall we say, I'm going to dedicate
myself that a little bit, like now this is the task.
I like that whole idea of just stopping and prepping
and just going, Okay, what is it.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
I'm going to do that.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I'm going to do this and do this, set this
up so I know, just just coming up with a little
routine before launching into And I'm going to take that
neive connotation of that word. I think I've always put
a negative connotation on a word compartmentalization. And yes, she's
not negative. It's a good idea, Like why didn't you
like it? Because it just felt like you were ignoring.
You'd go, I'm just going to put that over here

(54:14):
and put this over here and put this over here,
and I'm not going to deal with you not deal
with all. Yeah, it's not that you're not dealing with them,
it's just at this moment, I'm going to focus on
what I need to focus on. Yeah, Yeah, it was
so cool. You know, I really really enjoyed that, really
enjoyed it. I hope everybody got something out of that
from a from a just the fascination of the behind
scenes for the athletes, but also for your own own life. No,

(54:35):
have you found a little something that gave you joy? Yeah?
I visited a friend. I've been in Christich for some
family stuff and I visited a frame while I was there,
and I walked in and they just had photographs all
over the wolves, like just not a frames, just tacked
onto the wall and they just were like, well, it's
a really good time. In the last couple of years,

(54:56):
we've gone on quite a few holidays, and we've just
had lots of times in our life, so the kids are,
you know, lots of events and things, and so my
husband just started printing them off going and we house
stationary printing them off, sticking them on the wall, and
we can just it's not precious. You can just change
them out anytime. So the next time you come to
my house. I just sat there going, oh wow, it's

(55:17):
I'm like and you know, that just beautiful and I
it was just a lovely representation of of gratitude. I
guess you know, of the every day of the every
day nois of life actually really looking quite beautiful. Well,
and you've just got all these lovely reminders of good times.
It's not it's not what do you call it. It's

(55:37):
not curated, it's just beautiful. So yeah, whipping mine out
of the dusty frames and just sticking them on the wall.
What about you? Well, after my disastrous week of trying
to microdose joy last week, I've had a much better week.
But I've gone back to what I know. I've gone
back to what I know gives me joy. And for me,
music always gives me joy. Music and left me out
of a bad mood. It can motivate me. It just

(55:58):
makes me feel good. So and I've talked before about
making you know, playlists, your serotonin playlists and things. Well,
as we drove in here today, I had a little
concert in my car, windows up because I wouldn't I
wouldn't inflict it on anybody else. I sang my little
heart out. I just had a blast and I was

(56:18):
right into it. And I know at the green lay
lights there were a few people look at me going,
holy moly, what is that? Woman doing, and it was
absolutely fantastic. It was a reless kind of gorgeous release.
I just felt good and it happens to be a
stunning day to day when we're recording this. Only problem
is it's really not the best thing to do when

(56:39):
you talk for a living. I can feel that I've
strayed my voice slightly, which is not idea when you
come to record a podcast. But get in the car.
Whenever I'm in the car, my kids in the car,
they roll the radio, yeah, they roll, and I just
put my own music. Give it a try. We're heading
hot today, or if you're heading to work this morning,
put some music on, windows on, well, windows down. If

(56:59):
you just want to share the world and sing your
little heart out. I can't sing either, I'm a terrible
say and find the hype song. It was joyful, absolutely joyful. Right.
If you would like more though, from doctor Kylie Wilson,
head to Gainline dot co dot z and you can
learn a little bit more there about what she does.
Thank you for joining us on our New Zealand Herald

(57:20):
podcast series Little Things. We hope you share this podcast
with the women in your life so we can all
be a little bit more focused. You can follow this
podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
for more episodes from us on other topics, head to
z herold dot co dot enz and we'll catch you
next time on the Little Things