August 2, 2025 • 39 mins
Property investment has long been thought of as the way to make passive income.
It's money coming in without the 40 hours a week - but is it really as passive as we all think?
Investment coach Debbie Roberts from Property Apprentice joins Tim Beveridge for the OneRoof Radio Show.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You are, I'm dreaming, you're trying me dream blown skilled telling.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You where you can go.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Guess, welcome to the show if you have just joined us,
or welcome back for you to just caught the panel before.
The number is one hundred and eighty ten eighty. This
is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. And this hour,
oh actually, i'll just tell you're heading towards the next hour.
We've got John Cowener after five. We're gonna have a
chat about sideline behavior, what is and what isn't appropriate,
because there's been some ugly scenes and sports on the
(00:53):
sidelines on a couple of kids games about a week ago.
You have a chat about that with John Cowen, And
we'll also be talking about is it okay to tell
you someone else's kids off? And are there ever circumstances
in which you can do that, because it feels like
generally the answer is no, whereas maybe thirty forty years
ago it was like anytime you feel like it. Right
(01:15):
but right now it is the one Roof radio show
and we want your calls for this hour, and we
want you to we'd love you to participate in the
conversation on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine
nine two and joining me. She is an investment coach
at Property Apprentice and she's here in full Christmas regalia
because she's off to midwinter Christmas party and this is
(01:36):
just in case her daughter's missing. Who made her cover
up with the navy sort of fleece, but underneath it,
she's ready to party. Debbie Roberts, Hello, Hello, coven and Reindeer.
That's me lovely is midwinter Christmas parties? I guess. Actually,
it's nice to go to a party, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
This one's always good. It's an annual event. So yeah,
are you one of our closest friends.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I'm guessing you are fairly modestly dressed when it comes
to people who may go the full hog with the midwinter.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Christmas theme not on dresses up this one really yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Oh okay, so they just turned up.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
It's optional. You don't have to dress up.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Have you ever had a winter? Have you actually ever
had a winter Christmas, like when you're in the northern
Hemisphere when it's Christmas Timond.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yep, we've had Christmas in the UK. I had Christmas
in the States one year as well.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So do you like a winter Christmas or a summer Christmas?
Speaker 6 (02:24):
A summer girl?
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
I don't like winter.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, I struggle through it. Actually, remember when I was
living over there, Christmas just came and went. I think
I had a portable Christmas tree. It was about six
inches high sort of thing. Taken them a suitcast and
used to pop it on the mantelpiece and then just
put it away after a couple of weeks. Oh that
was something anyway, anyway, and how have you been? Can
you mischief?
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Try my best?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Look, we want your calls. I one hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Now, the first thing we're gonna have a
chat about is just the question on property investment and
how passive in fact it is to be a property investor.
And I guess it depends on you to some degree
the extent of how much you're involved in each investment
property you've got. But it seems that when you have
(03:07):
you know that, the first comment is like, oh, it's great,
so you can establish a form of passive income. But
more recently, I just have spoken to a lot of
people who say that passive makes it sound like it's easy,
but it's not really necessarily that easy, And especially with
the mathematical equation, I guess whether you're subsidizing the income
(03:30):
and the rent, the mortgage the responsibilities that go with it,
is passive a bit of a misleading expression for the
way to describe property investment passive income.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
I think so. I mean, my opinion is that the
only people that describe property investing is being easy and
passive are the people that are selling property.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Are the ones who've made a fortune, Maybe.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
People who are selling the properties that they're trying to
get you to buy.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Ah ah, I see that's their purchase, Like, hey, look great,
great source of income, piece of cake.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
You never go wrong.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Go and talk to your mortgage advisor. You won't go wrong.
But of course, if you are your own landlord, that's
when it is certainly anything but passive.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Well, I think any property investor should be treating it
as a business, not as a hobby. And it's you know,
property investing is pretty simple, but it's not easy. So
after themselves. You know, over time, houses need repairs and maintenance.
Even if you bought a new build today, there's a
good chance you can have repairs and maintenance at some
stage in the near future. So there's lots of things
(04:29):
that you need to stay on top of. You can
remove the act of investing to a certain extent, like
if you don't want to be the property manager yourself,
you can outsource that. You can work with property finders
if you do it yourself, but you know that comes
at a cost.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
What are the common misconceptions that you encounter with people
when they're first making their first forays or interest into it.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Some of the some of the things that we've heard
most recently is that, you know, I mean, certainly towards
the peak of the last boom, it seemed like everyone
thought that a new build was the way to go
because it was tax deductible. That was one of the
exclusions from when they removed the interest deductibility. So everyone
seemed to assume that new builds were the way to go,
(05:15):
and the industry that sells new builds were.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Certainly, oh, of course, pumping that one exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So I think a lot of people learned that lesson
the hard way, new builds are not right for everyone.
In fact, in my opinion, as a financial advisor. I
think there's a very small percentage of investors who new
builds make sense for Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Actually, I was just thinking that in terms of actually right,
I mean that the word passive is Yeah, it is
kind of misleading in a way, although not that's not
the only way that property investments described as a bit
often you hear that, But I was just curious in
terms of the energy, the mental energy that having a
new responsibility and a new investment takes. And I mean,
(06:01):
do you remember the first time you had an investment
property and the mental energy that it sort of took
in terms of distraction and preoccupation or thinking about it
or worrying about it too. I guess when you become
more experienced, then it's something you can push to your
back of your mind a bit more easily once you're
on top of the details.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Absolutely, And you know, I mean Paul and I are
both quite risk averse when it comes to investing, but
you know, so I would say it's probably always been
about six months after a purchase before we're like, oh,
we're glad we got that one.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
So what's the processing? What are those six months like? Then?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
How would you justy, I mean, I don't have sleepless
nights over it because you know, on paper, we make
sure everything stacks up. So we do all our due
diligence before we purchase. You know, we know what we're
looking for in an investment property, so we run all
the numbers carefully. There's a lot more to buying a
house than just getting a mortgage. In buying a house,
because not every house makes a good investment, and it's
(06:59):
different for everyone depending on your financial position. So you know,
lots of moving parts that you need to be aware of.
And yeah, like I said earlier, just be careful of
the salesperson.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, is there a point where it does
feel like it's more passive.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
There's certainly times where I mean, you can go months
without thinking about your investment properties if you've got a
really good property manager. But you do need to treat
it like a business. So like any other business, you
need to monitor the cash flow, you need to monitor
the expenses. You need to make sure that the property's
kept up to date as far as repairs and maintenance go,
(07:37):
because you know, little things like if the house springs,
you know, if the roof springs a leak, the longer
you leave it to fix it, the more expensive that
repair is going to be. So you need to make
sure that your property managers inspecting the property correctly or
you are, you know, when you're doing your regular property inspections.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
How much? Actually, while we're on that, because it inevitably
ties into the question, I'm not sure if it's you,
but I have had plenty of commentators and experts who
have said that unless you are the most experienced landlord around,
you should really the best thing you can ever do
is get a property manager, the right property manager. That
a lot of people get into it thinking, well, you know,
(08:18):
of course i'll manage my own property because you know,
I'm a hands on sort of person. I like doing
this and that. But they don't realize how hard.
Speaker 6 (08:26):
It is exactly.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
And I think, you know, with all of the rules
and regulations now, you really need to stay on top
of it if you're going to manage your own properties.
So I would suggest if you're looking at managing your
own properties, you can certainly save some money, you know.
I mean, property managers just take a percentage of the
weekly rent, so it's not massive, you know, it's not
(08:48):
a huge expense, but and it's tax deductible as an
expense as well. But you know, I think you do
need to decide whether or not you've got the time
and the energy to learn how to be a good
property manager yourself. If you're going to do it yourself,
if you belong to a local Property and Be association,
you can do the rent Skills course from the NZPIF
(09:09):
at no charge. So you know, that's well worth looking into.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
A few rent skills course.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Rent Skills from NZPAF and it's.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And more broadly, it's how to how to manage your
own property?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Is it teaches you how to be a property manager basically? Yeah,
So that's if you want to do it yourself, otherwise
pay a property manager to do it for you.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
So how much work is involved in getting started as
a property investor? Because and I think that the reason
topics like this, this particular topic I think is more
current is because you know, we have a soft market
and you know his first time buyers are making the
most of it and may be soft for a while yet,
but we've got a little bit of It feels to
me that if people are interesting getting into property investment
(09:50):
at some stage, it's not like you're going to have
to panic and buy something next week, so we've got
time to think about this stuff.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
In fact, I imagine that. I mean you guys finding
I mean, what's with the business that you run where
you're coaching people to get in to their property. Are
you getting a lot of people who are sort of
interested in the tire kicking phase at the moment or what?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
What we're seeing is that there are more and more
new investors coming into the market. The experienced investors have
been out there active for a while now, unless they've
already got a large portfolio and then they're having troubles
hitting the brick wall with the DTIs for.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
A moment in time.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
But you know, so there's a lot, there's a lot
of moving parts when it comes to looking at investing.
One of the things I would suggest is learn as
much as you can before you buy something, because it's
a heck of a lot cheaper to learn before you
buy than to learn the mistakes.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Yes, of course, although those some of those mistakes that
teach you the best lessons, but it's at some significant costs.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yeah, And it's literally why we started our company called
Property Apprentice. We created a company that we wish had
been around when we first started learning, you know, when
we first started investing twenty five years ago. So it's like,
because a lot of the mistakes that investors make are
really common, and it's because they don't know what they
don't know what.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
How much work is it to get started? What are
the how would you just how would you describe that
to someone who's like, oh, is it hard to get
into property investing? Of course again, I mean we have
some people say, well, it's piece of cake, just find
a property by it and then we get a tenant
and and the way you go. Ah, but I don't
think anyone's saying that these days.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
No.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Well, the thing is that anyone who can get a
mortgage to purchase, or anyone with enough cash to buy
if they if they don't need a mortgage, anyone can
buy a property. But there's a massive difference between buying
a property and buying a good investment property.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, and how much work is it to get your
head around that? I mean, obviously that's your business and
stock and trade, but for people who are doing it themselves,
you know, how much how would you describe the work
commitment and the time commitment to get on to get
into property investing.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
One of the one of the sayings that I quite like,
and I don't know who quoted. I don't know where
this quote came from, but I remember reading it years ago,
and it's an apple a day keeps a doctor away.
But you can't eat seven apples on a Sunday and
get the same result. Yes, So it doesn't take a
huge amount of time to find properties if you're putting
(12:17):
in consistent effort and you know exactly what you're looking for.
And I think that's the biggest challenge for new investors
is that they don't know what they're looking for. They
don't understand what they need to reach their long term goals.
So that's where we quite often find that new investors
go all round the place, you know, trying to figure
(12:37):
out what's the best sort of deal for them, and
they either buy something and then go, oh God, that
was a mistake, or they come to someone like us
who can teach them and give them the financial advice
that they need to get the right sort of idea
and know what you're looking for.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
What's the most common goal that people have when they
get into properly investing.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
They want to improve their financial position for retirement.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So does that mean implicitly they're chasing capital gain.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Oh, that's a really good question, Tim. I think the
majority of people who first think about purchasing a property
are chasing capital growth, like they see that benefit of leverage.
You know, if you're investing in property compared to investing
in the shaar market, there is an advantage there if
you know, assuming that we continue to get increasing capital
(13:26):
growth over time, and same as in the share market,
if we assume that that you're going to continue to
get positive returns over the long term. However, in reality,
it's not just about capital growth. You need to balance
cash flow with capital growth. And I think that's where
a lot of people forget.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Well, how many people buy a property because ultimately they
want to they want the rental income to get ahead
of the curve of their mortgage payments and just have
a property long term, so in the end they're getting
some form of income in the form of rent Or
is that is that sort of such a long game
that everyone secretly they say, I'm buying it for the income.
(14:07):
In fact, in fact, hang on, if I can just
drill into this a second, technically everyone legally must be
saying unless they're flipping houses, right you legally that has
to be the reason you buy an investment property because
if you buy it with the intention that I want
to make capital a capital gain technically, if that can
(14:29):
be established by the ID, they're going to tax you
on that capital gain. If that's your intention when you
buy it.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Yeah, it's your intention at the point to purchase.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
So another word change, Oh, I decide it.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
It's all about the.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
So where that intention test comes in. And I'm not
an accountant, but one of my best friends is, and
she's a property property accountant. What then the intention test is,
if you purchase a property with the intention of selling it,
you'll pay tax on that capital growth and potentially gsts.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Well, And that's why we have things like the Brontline
test because it's it's just impractical to try and examine
people's motives. But if we're being honest, I would say,
surely most I mean you'll probably have to be answered
diplomatically here, but I mean I don't have to be.
I don't imagine there be many people who wouldn't be
(15:19):
who wouldn't be buying a property as an investor without
thinking that at some stage they're going to be selling it.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
See, and this is the thing.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
The majority of investors in New Zealand are what we
call mom and dad investors. So the majority of investors,
like about eighty percent of them, only own one property.
And if you only own one rental property, there's a
pretty good chance that even if your mortgage free on
that rental property, you're going to be in a better
position if you sell it, if you pay that mortgage
(15:48):
off over the next thirty years or whatever.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
At the moment, market rent on average is about six
hundred bucks a week so across the country, So you know,
six hundred bucks a week.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
After you've paid rates.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Insurance, repairs and maintenance and all that sort of stuff,
it's probably going to work out to be about three
hundred dollars a week. Whereas if you've if you bought
that property thirty years ago, it could be worth well
over a million, you know. So, and this is why
I think most investors in New Zealand get it wrong,
because one rental property is not going to make a
(16:22):
huge difference to your financial position. If you've got a
portfolio of properties and you don't have to have a
huge number two or three could be enough to get
you there, but that gives you a lot more choice,
and as you're paying the mortgages down, you could live
off that cash flow.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Gives you much more responsibility though, I guess, and the
importance to make the right decision.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It's definitely important to make the right decision purchase.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I said that so casually, as if the side effects
could be just did you.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Hear the verbal from the financial advisor?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
We'd like to hear your stories as well. If you're
in a property investor and what was the hardest part
of getting into it? Because you know, the question where
you started the hour with was a sort of pushing
back against the notion it's a great form of passive income.
What's your journey been when it comes to the amount
of work that it's taken to get into property property investing?
(17:17):
I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty I eighte hundred
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two. I mean,
how much work was it for you to get started?
And at what stage did you go oh oh? Because
I mentioned there are a lot of people who got
I made it's so hard for myself. So yeah, we
love your cause on this as well. My guest is
Debbie Roberts. She's an investment coach at Property Apprentice. Jump
on the blower I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Also,
(17:38):
if you've got any questions for Debbie, if you're thinking
about property investment being something you want to get into,
we'd love to hear from you. We'll be back in
just a moment. It is twenty four past four. Yes,
welcome back. We are talking with Debbie Roberts, investment coach
of Property Apprentice, about property investment and how it's sometimes
thought of as the way to make passive income. But
(18:00):
is it really as passive as we all think?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
What?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
How much work have you found goes into property investment?
And actually, on the other side of things, usually this
boils down to the opportunity to learn from other people's mistakes.
What mistakes have you made? Actually, we're with DeBie robertson
Property Apprentice. What's the you must have had a I mean,
you know, you might have done everything perfectly, which is
why Property and pressan apprentice. But I'm guessing that people
(18:23):
are going to get the benefit of some of the
hard lessons you've learned.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Absolutely, I've never met an investor that has never made
a mistake, So, you know, most investors do make mistakes.
But the key difference is that if you're making a
mistake from an educated perspective, you know, because there's a
lot to know and understand when it comes to property investing.
So the more you know, the lower your risk. But yeah,
Paul and I have made some mistakes. We've had some
(18:49):
we've had some pretty curly issues over the last few years,
you know.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
So yeah, it's not completely smooth.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Well it stands out what's your doozy and you go,
oh god.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Well, some of the mistakes that we made. The first
couple of properties we managed ourselves, and we didn't love it,
so we didn't do a great job, you know, And
that was when we learned to leverage our time. And
don't get me wrong, some people love doing their own
property management, and all power to them.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
I'm just not that person.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
So one of the things that we did when we
were managing properties ourselves, we weren't doing regular property inspections,
and from one inspection to the next, we discovered that
the house was pretty trashed, you know. So yeah, so
lessons learned the hard way, you know, get good tenant
selection and have systems in place. So yeah, that was
(19:41):
one mistake. Next thing that another lesson that we learned
the hard way was the one bank trap. So if
you go and get all of your lending with one bank,
they cross secure, they cross secure everything against each other.
And when that bank yeah, okay, so and then when
that bank says no, what are you.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Going to do? You know?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So we had a couple of rental properties and we
went back to the bank to see if we could
get another loan. Bank said no, and we were like,
oh why not? And they said, oh, you don't earn
enough money because we were both pretty low in come owners.
And we thought, oh, well that's it. Then we're done.
And then we met a mortgage advisor and she said, oh,
I've got four other banks that are so used to you,
(20:23):
and we went, what, well that is.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Quite well, that's that's not a tragic mistake, that's just
a pause.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
But we could have just given up. Yeah, you know,
we could have just given up, and it would have
been quite easy to give up. But we saw property
investing as being the only way that would get us
out of that living paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Actually, how does.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That work with mortgages? If you if you have multiple properties,
then you've so you can have multiple banks at different
bank looking after each property. But if do they seek
to take a mortgage over your other I mean even
if you've got a different bank. So you've got ASB
and you've got an Z and asb's next one. But
(21:04):
they go, hang on, what other properties have you got
because we want to secure a second mortgage on that.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yes, so they can't now that I can't. No, So
each bank is stand alone, but every bank knows what
all the other banks have got.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
When you're applying for a.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Mortgage, you have to disclose everything.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Is there a benefit? Is there any sort of benefit
apart from avoiding getting foreclosed on every property by one
bank or something? Is there a benefit to having your
mortgages with different banks? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
For example, and the current economic climate is a perfect
example of how things can go wrong if you've got
it all cross secured. Let's say, for example, if you
lose your day job and you decide, oh, I've had
this rental property for fifteen years. If I sold that,
I've had some good capital growth over the last fifteen years.
(21:55):
If I sold that that'd give me enough money to
live off until I get another job. If all of
your lendings with one bank, the bank can actually ask
you to re qualify for the lending that's going to remain,
and if you don't because you've just lost your job,
they can keep the proceeds of the sale of that
property to reduce their risk.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
That is a major gem of advice, that really nice
stick around of the well actually, because that almost sounds
to me because we love the idea. I mean, we're
if you take your calls or queries on that, by
the way, if you've got some questions around this for
Debi Roberts, but that if I was just to take
the last couple of minutes of conversation, I would be
(22:38):
thinking because I mean, the convenience of being able to
log onto the same bank. I mean, I love the
fact that I go on to my an z app
and everything I needs there. I don't have a property investment,
but just you know, business bankings with them, et cetera,
et cetera. But I'm reading, just on this short conversation
that if I bought an investment property, I might even
(22:58):
want to in the first instance go to a different bank,
But definitely if I had another property on that, definitely
go to another bank, and.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
I would go a step further. And this is not
just because I'm a mortgage advisor as well, but I mean,
you know, because I can't do mortgage advice for everyone obviously,
but you know, do it all through your mortgage advisor.
Your mortgage advisors are professional and they work for you,
so you know they can help you pay off your
mortgages faster if that's your goal. They can help you
(23:29):
work out which bank to go to if you're coming
to the end of your interest only term or whatever.
There's lots of different options.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Are there any benefits to having the same bank for
all your investment properties?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Oh silent, I'm thinking, I mean, you'd have it all
in one app I suppose, but the disadvantages in my opinion,
much higher than the advantages.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Okay, what about in terms of the buying decision on
a house. Okay, so you've said a couple of mistakes.
Was not realizing you get different banks to learning that
you should have different banks, you know, spread your spread,
your loan, spread your don't know spread your banks basically,
and you've learned the lesson of being a property investor,
(24:17):
a manager of your properties. When you rent, your heart
wasn't really in it. What about the purchase decision? What
are the most common mistakes that people can make when
it comes to the decision on what house they buy?
What's some and have you made a clanger? Where you
going wrong? We shouldn't have bought that dog?
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Well, I think we realized fairly early on in our
journey that we needed to learn a lot more about it,
and so, you know, we educated ourselves in property investing.
We spent an absolute fortune educating ourselves about the business,
know how to run it as a business, and so
the mistakes that we made early on, you know, they
(24:56):
were more what we didn't know after we'd bought. So
thankfully the properties that we purchased all turned out to
be pretty good investments. It's over the long term. I
think the most common mistake that new investors make is
buying somewhere close to where they live, because they think
that's going to reduce the risk.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Although I guess the only counter to that would be
if you feel you know the market where you live best. Yes,
So is that a false Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I think it's potentially a false thing because not everywhere
has got good cash flow.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
In fact, some parts, well most parts of Auckland for example,
don't have good cash flow. But you know, and this
is where people get into that trap of thinking, oh,
but Auckland's got good capital growth, you know, so that's
where things come in stark. But you know, it's all
about balancing cash flow with capital growth. And for a
lot of our clients, the best place for them to
(25:54):
invest is not the area that they live in. Like
a lot of our clients live in small towns in
the South Island, for example, that wouldn't be an area
that I'd suggest that they invest.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
In my case, it would never happen because I doubt
that I can afford to buy an investment property in
sant Hellia's yeah right, Let's take some calls Tom, Hello, Hi.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
There, guys, Hey Debbie new builder, say for everybody, what
could be the pitfalls there as a rental?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
So my thoughts are at the moment in the current
property market where capital growth is pretty flat, if any,
there's no value add potential. If you're buying a new build,
you can't increase the value by renovating it or landscaping
because it's already all been done for you. New builds
also tend to be about six percent more expensive than
(26:45):
an existing property, so you know, you're really if you're
buying a new build, you're literally hoping for capital growth,
in my opinion, So you know, at the moment, there
are some potential potential benefits if you're buying off the plan,
because it's not likely that house fase are going to
(27:05):
drop too much over the next year or so, you know,
before the before the development's completed. But you know, it's
the negative cash flow. I think that's the biggest kicker,
because most new builds have got pretty strong negative cash
flow after all the expenses.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yes, okay, now I can see your point of view.
Now that's fair enough. So we've only just purchased the
land and the building will will go on or two
buildings will be in the next six months or six
months we'll say eight, say ten wish we'll think you
I think six months. But yeah, so that's not as
(27:46):
bad as just going along and buying a new build.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Potentially not. And I think multi income new builds are
certainly a way to get stronger cash flow than a
standalone property. So yeah, not necessarily the end of the
world for you. But yeah, make sure I hope, I
hope you did your homework on the developer.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, yeah, no's he's been in the game for fifteen act.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Well, that is actually one of the mistakes you can make,
isn't it. Is it a new build with developer, that's
probably worth yea check their track record a time.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Correct correct guys, All right, thank you for that guy,
very informative.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yes, I'm fascinated by this mortgage thing. Just before you
go to the break, Hi, guys, there's a text from
Steve says, it's exactly what happened to me. I sold
a second property to pay tax and to pay for
an engine and a truck IO five thousand bucks the
second property. I have five thousand on the second property,
and I owe three hundred thousand dollars in my first house.
(28:44):
And the bank took the money and paid the mortgage
on my first property then would not lend me in
more money against it. I really got in trouble with IID.
Thanks Steve. That sucks. Yeah, So here he is selling
is he's trying to do the right thing with the
ID sells the property and they say, well, now we're
going to pay it off you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean again, this is something that your mortgage
advisor could help with because they could get the bank
to give you a pre approval for the.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Dischat, so you could if you were in that situation,
you could talk to your bank and say, listen, I
need to do it for that and I need your
consent that I can apply the money for that purpose. Yes,
so there is a way of dealing with it.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
But the problem is if you've got no provable income,
you're a bit stuffed. If you had split banking, not
a problem because if you've if you've got your investment
property with a different bank, then you can sell that
without the first bank doing anything.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Well, that's very good advice. Right, We'll be back in
just a tack. And that sounded like I meant that
in some sort of patronizing way. I think that's really
interesting advice we've heard so far this afternoon. It's nineteen
and a half minutes to five.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
They get to.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yes, and don't ask me to recite any of the
lyrics to that song, because Sandler er, I can think
I can for that. But anyway, welcome back. I'm Tim Beveridge.
This is one roof radio show. We're talking about, well,
property has long often thought out by some as a
way of making passive income, but how much work is involved.
But we've also evolved to talking about in the conversation
with Debbie Roberts from Property Apprentice, about the mistakes you
can make along the way as well, or that you
(30:32):
should hopefully shouldn't make. And let's take some more calls.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
Kumar Good A Hey, Hi, good, thanks Debbie, Hi, very good. Debby.
Just wanted to to run past something. I'm so many
plus hears. And you've got a mortgage and on a
small investment property, very small mortgage. Our own home is
paid for. I was thinking whether we should look at
(30:59):
buying another property at the junction.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Yeah, So that that's question I can't really answer without knowing.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
A whole more about you.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
Yeah, we have already got a mortgage approved by another bank, okay,
which is not the current bank. Yeah, and we are
not condemplanning what we should do with that, okay.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
And you said you were seventy Yes. So the thing
about property investing.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Is that it's a long term strategy.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
So yeah, I think if if if you're looking at
a long term strategy, at the age of seventy.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I don't mean to sound like the grim Reaper or
anything like that.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
If you've got yeah, I would say, if you've got
cash funds available, then you'd be better off looking at
managed funds or something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Although we're not giving specific financial advice, but what what's
what's your goal? What's what you what when do you
need to see some money for tho?
Speaker 7 (31:59):
If you what basic basically having a cash flow going
through assignment, I'm still working for time and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
So would you be able to Are you talking about
just borrowing enough to get the right property, but you'd
still make some money on the rent?
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Correct?
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:18):
And I mean also potentially if you're looking at it
for you know, to hand down to the next generation
as well, so as a long term investment that you're
that your children couldn't hear it further down the track
or something like that, then that can make sense.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
Well, we've got around property between mortgage, friend, so that
can be their.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So is it sort of like you've got some money?
Is it a bit like say you've got five hundred
thousand and you think I need to borrow another couple
hundred thousand. This will get me a property that will
get me so much rental return. That's correct, That's okay,
good guess that's an interesting way because you're still preserving
and capital, aren't you.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yes, And it does It really does depend on your
individual position, because I mean, like I can think off
the top of my head. I had a client that
I met with a couple of weeks ago, and they
were in a similar position, and for them, it made
more sense for them to like they were going to
make more cash flow by investing in managed funds rather
than purchasing property. So yeah, it really is an individual
(33:25):
question that you probably should get independent financial advice about that. Okay.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
Just another thing with rental properties as against putting it
on Airbnb. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (33:36):
So put long term long term rentals rather than Airbnb? Yeah,
I think both of them have got their place. Airbnb
or short term rentals can trigger gest if you earn
more than sixty grand a year, but you know, it's
a great way to help pay off.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
A holiday home.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Yeah, interesting, and it can.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Certainly give you stronger cash flow than long term rentals
in many so.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
We were just thinking about the one which we have
already the rentals, long term rentals coming up, and you
think you're converting that into Airbnb because we're in Oakland.
We don't live in Oakland, but we're in Oakland, CBD,
and I believe the demand's pretty high.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Yeah, and certainly with you know now that the international
students could be coming back as well, then you know
that that does have some potential for inner city apartments
for example. So yeah, I think of there's demand for
short term rentals and the property that you've got that's
certainly worth looking into.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Okay, thanks, I really appreciate it. How on Matt that's there.
I want to have Mike on there. Thanks for your
core real appreciate it. Right, Just time for another quick
one Neville.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Hello, guys, very interesting discussion covering some quite poignant points.
I invested in units a long time ago when I
worked off sure, mainly as a retirement sort of a play,
and what I found over the is you guys have
touched on it, but it needs to be stressed, is
(35:06):
the importance of being able to trust people. We talked
about property managers. You know, there are property managers and
property managers, and some of them it's you know, there's
very very little barrier the industry.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
Absolutely, yeah, it's one. Sorry, I don't mean to talk
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
No, no, please go ahead.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
I was just going to say that, you know, the
nz p IF, for example, they're they're quite keen on
getting regulation into the property management industry, and so are
most of the property managers that we talk to. Most
of them are like this, this needs to be regulated.
So I know that NZPIF would prefer private landlords not
(35:53):
to have to be regulated. My opinion on that's a
little bit different because I think the one the bad
landlords that we hear about in the media, they're all
private landlords, so you know, and they give the rest
of us about name. So if we regulated everybody, then
potentially we wouldn't have such a bad reputation.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Hey, thanks for your court nevel. Sorry a little bit
shorter time because we've got to come back with one
roof Property of the Week, which is next but nevill
appreciate you call it is ten to five news talk set.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Be the one roof property of the week on the
weekend collective.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yes, the one roof property of the week. If the
general rule of thumb for the one roof property of
the week I can share with you is generally my
producer tire Knee Roberts now Ward. My producer goes and
looks at a property where she thinks, I think I'd
like to live there, and it's a pretty good rule
of thumb, and she's got quite posh tastes. But anyway,
this the property of the week this week is nine
(36:49):
Burgundy Park Avenue in Henderson. It is it's massive, by
the way, and it has a pool which I quite
like because the pool has a sort of tree in
the middle and a bit of a rock feature and
things on a little bridge, and it's anyway. It's five bedrooms,
four bathrooms, four car garage and double car port. It
(37:11):
is six hundred The house itself is six hundred and
ten square meters. It's got a tennis courts, it's bliming huge,
and it's got an r V. The estimate apparently is
two point seven seven million, which does seem for the
amount of land kind of cheap. It's nine Burgundie Park Avenue, Henderson,
(37:31):
why Tackerty City. The r V is two point six
million estimate two point seven seven It's set on three
thousand square meters in Henderson, heights. Did I say, how
I come in to say Henderson? It's Henderson? Why takety city?
And anyway, Debbie, what what do you make of it?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
The games room looks like fun.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
The games room looks like there's like a.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Pool table and a ping pong table and like looks
like what's that thing?
Speaker 6 (37:58):
You know, what's the thing machine?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I hadn't scrolled that far. Oh yes, I do set.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
It looks like a great home for teenagers.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Yeah. And actually, the only thing I've got to say
not that it's my job to bag a property. Terracotta
tiles do sort of add a certain date to a place,
don't they. But you can change the color in your tap.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Absolutely you can.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
And I think that that's one of the benefits of
this property, you know, having just looked at it, it's
it does have some areas that you could modernize if
you wanted to, which could increase the value.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
So would you buy a property with a tennis court
if you didn't play tennis? And would you.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (38:39):
I mean I wouldn't know. But what I mean, does
it you might be interested in.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Learning if you've got a tennis court, does it sort
of limit your market to people? Who play tennis. That's
almost an eight hundred and eighty ten eighty worth a
half an hour ago, but unfortunately we've got about a
minute to go. I wonder that's an interesting philosophical question.
Of course, it's a lot of land. Whether it means
you can shoven the dwelling on there and do something
(39:06):
else with it, who knows with anyway, So go and
check it out. Nine Burgundy Park Avenue, Henderson. Great to
be on the show as always, Debbie, what are you?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You're off to your midwinter Christmas party? I am time
to unzip the fleece and reveals that the elves and
the reindeer on your on your shirt there, have a
great evening. Thank you, okay, and we'll be back. John
Cown is with us for the parents squad, talking about
sideline behavior, and if we've got time, we'll also delve
into can you ever tell off another appearent's children, because
(39:36):
we were going to do that last week we never
really got onto it, so I've got that on the
side as well. But sideline behavior, what's okay, what's not?
We'll be taking your calls. Eight hundred and eighty ten
to eighty. This is news Talk SEDB Weekend Collective. Back shortly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Listen live to News Talks EDB Weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You are, I'm dreaming, you're trying me dream blown skilled telling.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You where you can go.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Guess, welcome to the show if you have just joined us,
or welcome back for you to just caught the panel before.
The number is one hundred and eighty ten eighty. This
is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. And this hour,
oh actually, i'll just tell you're heading towards the next hour.
We've got John Cowener after five. We're gonna have a
chat about sideline behavior, what is and what isn't appropriate,
because there's been some ugly scenes and sports on the
(00:53):
sidelines on a couple of kids games about a week ago.
You have a chat about that with John Cowen, And
we'll also be talking about is it okay to tell
you someone else's kids off? And are there ever circumstances
in which you can do that, because it feels like
generally the answer is no, whereas maybe thirty forty years
ago it was like anytime you feel like it. Right
(01:15):
but right now it is the one Roof radio show
and we want your calls for this hour, and we
want you to we'd love you to participate in the
conversation on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine
nine two and joining me. She is an investment coach
at Property Apprentice and she's here in full Christmas regalia
because she's off to midwinter Christmas party and this is
(01:36):
just in case her daughter's missing. Who made her cover
up with the navy sort of fleece, but underneath it,
she's ready to party. Debbie Roberts, Hello, Hello, coven and Reindeer.
That's me lovely is midwinter Christmas parties? I guess. Actually,
it's nice to go to a party, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
This one's always good. It's an annual event. So yeah,
are you one of our closest friends.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I'm guessing you are fairly modestly dressed when it comes
to people who may go the full hog with the midwinter.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Christmas theme not on dresses up this one really yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Oh okay, so they just turned up.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
It's optional. You don't have to dress up.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Have you ever had a winter? Have you actually ever
had a winter Christmas, like when you're in the northern
Hemisphere when it's Christmas Timond.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yep, we've had Christmas in the UK. I had Christmas
in the States one year as well.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So do you like a winter Christmas or a summer Christmas?
Speaker 6 (02:24):
A summer girl?
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
I don't like winter.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, I struggle through it. Actually, remember when I was
living over there, Christmas just came and went. I think
I had a portable Christmas tree. It was about six
inches high sort of thing. Taken them a suitcast and
used to pop it on the mantelpiece and then just
put it away after a couple of weeks. Oh that
was something anyway, anyway, and how have you been? Can
you mischief?
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Try my best?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Look, we want your calls. I one hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Now, the first thing we're gonna have a
chat about is just the question on property investment and
how passive in fact it is to be a property investor.
And I guess it depends on you to some degree
the extent of how much you're involved in each investment
property you've got. But it seems that when you have
(03:07):
you know that, the first comment is like, oh, it's great,
so you can establish a form of passive income. But
more recently, I just have spoken to a lot of
people who say that passive makes it sound like it's easy,
but it's not really necessarily that easy, And especially with
the mathematical equation, I guess whether you're subsidizing the income
(03:30):
and the rent, the mortgage the responsibilities that go with it,
is passive a bit of a misleading expression for the
way to describe property investment passive income.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
I think so. I mean, my opinion is that the
only people that describe property investing is being easy and
passive are the people that are selling property.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Are the ones who've made a fortune, Maybe.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
People who are selling the properties that they're trying to
get you to buy.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Ah ah, I see that's their purchase, Like, hey, look great,
great source of income, piece of cake.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
You never go wrong.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Go and talk to your mortgage advisor. You won't go wrong.
But of course, if you are your own landlord, that's
when it is certainly anything but passive.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Well, I think any property investor should be treating it
as a business, not as a hobby. And it's you know,
property investing is pretty simple, but it's not easy. So
after themselves. You know, over time, houses need repairs and maintenance.
Even if you bought a new build today, there's a
good chance you can have repairs and maintenance at some
stage in the near future. So there's lots of things
(04:29):
that you need to stay on top of. You can
remove the act of investing to a certain extent, like
if you don't want to be the property manager yourself,
you can outsource that. You can work with property finders
if you do it yourself, but you know that comes
at a cost.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
What are the common misconceptions that you encounter with people
when they're first making their first forays or interest into it.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Some of the some of the things that we've heard
most recently is that, you know, I mean, certainly towards
the peak of the last boom, it seemed like everyone
thought that a new build was the way to go
because it was tax deductible. That was one of the
exclusions from when they removed the interest deductibility. So everyone
seemed to assume that new builds were the way to go,
(05:15):
and the industry that sells new builds were.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Certainly, oh, of course, pumping that one exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So I think a lot of people learned that lesson
the hard way, new builds are not right for everyone.
In fact, in my opinion, as a financial advisor. I
think there's a very small percentage of investors who new
builds make sense for Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Actually, I was just thinking that in terms of actually right,
I mean that the word passive is Yeah, it is
kind of misleading in a way, although not that's not
the only way that property investments described as a bit
often you hear that, But I was just curious in
terms of the energy, the mental energy that having a
new responsibility and a new investment takes. And I mean,
(06:01):
do you remember the first time you had an investment
property and the mental energy that it sort of took
in terms of distraction and preoccupation or thinking about it
or worrying about it too. I guess when you become
more experienced, then it's something you can push to your
back of your mind a bit more easily once you're
on top of the details.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Absolutely, And you know, I mean Paul and I are
both quite risk averse when it comes to investing, but
you know, so I would say it's probably always been
about six months after a purchase before we're like, oh,
we're glad we got that one.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
So what's the processing? What are those six months like? Then?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
How would you justy, I mean, I don't have sleepless
nights over it because you know, on paper, we make
sure everything stacks up. So we do all our due
diligence before we purchase. You know, we know what we're
looking for in an investment property, so we run all
the numbers carefully. There's a lot more to buying a
house than just getting a mortgage. In buying a house,
because not every house makes a good investment, and it's
(06:59):
different for everyone depending on your financial position. So you know,
lots of moving parts that you need to be aware of.
And yeah, like I said earlier, just be careful of
the salesperson.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, is there a point where it does
feel like it's more passive.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
There's certainly times where I mean, you can go months
without thinking about your investment properties if you've got a
really good property manager. But you do need to treat
it like a business. So like any other business, you
need to monitor the cash flow, you need to monitor
the expenses. You need to make sure that the property's
kept up to date as far as repairs and maintenance go,
(07:37):
because you know, little things like if the house springs,
you know, if the roof springs a leak, the longer
you leave it to fix it, the more expensive that
repair is going to be. So you need to make
sure that your property managers inspecting the property correctly or
you are, you know, when you're doing your regular property inspections.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
How much? Actually, while we're on that, because it inevitably
ties into the question, I'm not sure if it's you,
but I have had plenty of commentators and experts who
have said that unless you are the most experienced landlord around,
you should really the best thing you can ever do
is get a property manager, the right property manager. That
a lot of people get into it thinking, well, you know,
(08:18):
of course i'll manage my own property because you know,
I'm a hands on sort of person. I like doing
this and that. But they don't realize how hard.
Speaker 6 (08:26):
It is exactly.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
And I think, you know, with all of the rules
and regulations now, you really need to stay on top
of it if you're going to manage your own properties.
So I would suggest if you're looking at managing your
own properties, you can certainly save some money, you know.
I mean, property managers just take a percentage of the
weekly rent, so it's not massive, you know, it's not
(08:48):
a huge expense, but and it's tax deductible as an
expense as well. But you know, I think you do
need to decide whether or not you've got the time
and the energy to learn how to be a good
property manager yourself. If you're going to do it yourself,
if you belong to a local Property and Be association,
you can do the rent Skills course from the NZPIF
(09:09):
at no charge. So you know, that's well worth looking into.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
A few rent skills course.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Rent Skills from NZPAF and it's.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And more broadly, it's how to how to manage your
own property?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Is it teaches you how to be a property manager basically? Yeah,
So that's if you want to do it yourself, otherwise
pay a property manager to do it for you.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
So how much work is involved in getting started as
a property investor? Because and I think that the reason
topics like this, this particular topic I think is more
current is because you know, we have a soft market
and you know his first time buyers are making the
most of it and may be soft for a while yet,
but we've got a little bit of It feels to
me that if people are interesting getting into property investment
(09:50):
at some stage, it's not like you're going to have
to panic and buy something next week, so we've got
time to think about this stuff.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
In fact, I imagine that. I mean you guys finding
I mean, what's with the business that you run where
you're coaching people to get in to their property. Are
you getting a lot of people who are sort of
interested in the tire kicking phase at the moment or what?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
What we're seeing is that there are more and more
new investors coming into the market. The experienced investors have
been out there active for a while now, unless they've
already got a large portfolio and then they're having troubles
hitting the brick wall with the DTIs for.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
A moment in time.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
But you know, so there's a lot, there's a lot
of moving parts when it comes to looking at investing.
One of the things I would suggest is learn as
much as you can before you buy something, because it's
a heck of a lot cheaper to learn before you
buy than to learn the mistakes.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Yes, of course, although those some of those mistakes that
teach you the best lessons, but it's at some significant costs.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yeah, And it's literally why we started our company called
Property Apprentice. We created a company that we wish had
been around when we first started learning, you know, when
we first started investing twenty five years ago. So it's like,
because a lot of the mistakes that investors make are
really common, and it's because they don't know what they
don't know what.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
How much work is it to get started? What are
the how would you just how would you describe that
to someone who's like, oh, is it hard to get
into property investing? Of course again, I mean we have
some people say, well, it's piece of cake, just find
a property by it and then we get a tenant
and and the way you go. Ah, but I don't
think anyone's saying that these days.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
No.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Well, the thing is that anyone who can get a
mortgage to purchase, or anyone with enough cash to buy
if they if they don't need a mortgage, anyone can
buy a property. But there's a massive difference between buying
a property and buying a good investment property.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, and how much work is it to get your
head around that? I mean, obviously that's your business and
stock and trade, but for people who are doing it themselves,
you know, how much how would you describe the work
commitment and the time commitment to get on to get
into property investing.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
One of the one of the sayings that I quite like,
and I don't know who quoted. I don't know where
this quote came from, but I remember reading it years ago,
and it's an apple a day keeps a doctor away.
But you can't eat seven apples on a Sunday and
get the same result. Yes, So it doesn't take a
huge amount of time to find properties if you're putting
(12:17):
in consistent effort and you know exactly what you're looking for.
And I think that's the biggest challenge for new investors
is that they don't know what they're looking for. They
don't understand what they need to reach their long term goals.
So that's where we quite often find that new investors
go all round the place, you know, trying to figure
(12:37):
out what's the best sort of deal for them, and
they either buy something and then go, oh God, that
was a mistake, or they come to someone like us
who can teach them and give them the financial advice
that they need to get the right sort of idea
and know what you're looking for.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
What's the most common goal that people have when they
get into properly investing.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
They want to improve their financial position for retirement.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So does that mean implicitly they're chasing capital gain.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Oh, that's a really good question, Tim. I think the
majority of people who first think about purchasing a property
are chasing capital growth, like they see that benefit of leverage.
You know, if you're investing in property compared to investing
in the shaar market, there is an advantage there if
you know, assuming that we continue to get increasing capital
(13:26):
growth over time, and same as in the share market,
if we assume that that you're going to continue to
get positive returns over the long term. However, in reality,
it's not just about capital growth. You need to balance
cash flow with capital growth. And I think that's where
a lot of people forget.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Well, how many people buy a property because ultimately they
want to they want the rental income to get ahead
of the curve of their mortgage payments and just have
a property long term, so in the end they're getting
some form of income in the form of rent Or
is that is that sort of such a long game
that everyone secretly they say, I'm buying it for the income.
(14:07):
In fact, in fact, hang on, if I can just
drill into this a second, technically everyone legally must be
saying unless they're flipping houses, right you legally that has
to be the reason you buy an investment property because
if you buy it with the intention that I want
to make capital a capital gain technically, if that can
(14:29):
be established by the ID, they're going to tax you
on that capital gain. If that's your intention when you
buy it.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Yeah, it's your intention at the point to purchase.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
So another word change, Oh, I decide it.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
It's all about the.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
So where that intention test comes in. And I'm not
an accountant, but one of my best friends is, and
she's a property property accountant. What then the intention test is,
if you purchase a property with the intention of selling it,
you'll pay tax on that capital growth and potentially gsts.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Well, And that's why we have things like the Brontline
test because it's it's just impractical to try and examine
people's motives. But if we're being honest, I would say,
surely most I mean you'll probably have to be answered
diplomatically here, but I mean I don't have to be.
I don't imagine there be many people who wouldn't be
(15:19):
who wouldn't be buying a property as an investor without
thinking that at some stage they're going to be selling it.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
See, and this is the thing.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
The majority of investors in New Zealand are what we
call mom and dad investors. So the majority of investors,
like about eighty percent of them, only own one property.
And if you only own one rental property, there's a
pretty good chance that even if your mortgage free on
that rental property, you're going to be in a better
position if you sell it, if you pay that mortgage
(15:48):
off over the next thirty years or whatever.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
At the moment, market rent on average is about six
hundred bucks a week so across the country, So you know,
six hundred bucks a week.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
After you've paid rates.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Insurance, repairs and maintenance and all that sort of stuff,
it's probably going to work out to be about three
hundred dollars a week. Whereas if you've if you bought
that property thirty years ago, it could be worth well
over a million, you know. So, and this is why
I think most investors in New Zealand get it wrong,
because one rental property is not going to make a
(16:22):
huge difference to your financial position. If you've got a
portfolio of properties and you don't have to have a
huge number two or three could be enough to get
you there, but that gives you a lot more choice,
and as you're paying the mortgages down, you could live
off that cash flow.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Gives you much more responsibility though, I guess, and the
importance to make the right decision.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It's definitely important to make the right decision purchase.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I said that so casually, as if the side effects
could be just did you.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Hear the verbal from the financial advisor?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
We'd like to hear your stories as well. If you're
in a property investor and what was the hardest part
of getting into it? Because you know, the question where
you started the hour with was a sort of pushing
back against the notion it's a great form of passive income.
What's your journey been when it comes to the amount
of work that it's taken to get into property property investing?
(17:17):
I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty I eighte hundred
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two. I mean,
how much work was it for you to get started?
And at what stage did you go oh oh? Because
I mentioned there are a lot of people who got
I made it's so hard for myself. So yeah, we
love your cause on this as well. My guest is
Debbie Roberts. She's an investment coach at Property Apprentice. Jump
on the blower I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Also,
(17:38):
if you've got any questions for Debbie, if you're thinking
about property investment being something you want to get into,
we'd love to hear from you. We'll be back in
just a moment. It is twenty four past four. Yes,
welcome back. We are talking with Debbie Roberts, investment coach
of Property Apprentice, about property investment and how it's sometimes
thought of as the way to make passive income. But
(18:00):
is it really as passive as we all think?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
What?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
How much work have you found goes into property investment?
And actually, on the other side of things, usually this
boils down to the opportunity to learn from other people's mistakes.
What mistakes have you made? Actually, we're with DeBie robertson
Property Apprentice. What's the you must have had a I mean,
you know, you might have done everything perfectly, which is
why Property and pressan apprentice. But I'm guessing that people
(18:23):
are going to get the benefit of some of the
hard lessons you've learned.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Absolutely, I've never met an investor that has never made
a mistake, So, you know, most investors do make mistakes.
But the key difference is that if you're making a
mistake from an educated perspective, you know, because there's a
lot to know and understand when it comes to property investing.
So the more you know, the lower your risk. But yeah,
Paul and I have made some mistakes. We've had some
(18:49):
we've had some pretty curly issues over the last few years,
you know.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
So yeah, it's not completely smooth.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Well it stands out what's your doozy and you go,
oh god.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Well, some of the mistakes that we made. The first
couple of properties we managed ourselves, and we didn't love it,
so we didn't do a great job, you know, And
that was when we learned to leverage our time. And
don't get me wrong, some people love doing their own
property management, and all power to them.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
I'm just not that person.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
So one of the things that we did when we
were managing properties ourselves, we weren't doing regular property inspections,
and from one inspection to the next, we discovered that
the house was pretty trashed, you know. So yeah, so
lessons learned the hard way, you know, get good tenant
selection and have systems in place. So yeah, that was
(19:41):
one mistake. Next thing that another lesson that we learned
the hard way was the one bank trap. So if
you go and get all of your lending with one bank,
they cross secure, they cross secure everything against each other.
And when that bank yeah, okay, so and then when
that bank says no, what are you.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Going to do? You know?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So we had a couple of rental properties and we
went back to the bank to see if we could
get another loan. Bank said no, and we were like,
oh why not? And they said, oh, you don't earn
enough money because we were both pretty low in come owners.
And we thought, oh, well that's it. Then we're done.
And then we met a mortgage advisor and she said, oh,
I've got four other banks that are so used to you,
(20:23):
and we went, what, well that is.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Quite well, that's that's not a tragic mistake, that's just
a pause.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
But we could have just given up. Yeah, you know,
we could have just given up, and it would have
been quite easy to give up. But we saw property
investing as being the only way that would get us
out of that living paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Actually, how does.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That work with mortgages? If you if you have multiple properties,
then you've so you can have multiple banks at different
bank looking after each property. But if do they seek
to take a mortgage over your other I mean even
if you've got a different bank. So you've got ASB
and you've got an Z and asb's next one. But
(21:04):
they go, hang on, what other properties have you got
because we want to secure a second mortgage on that.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yes, so they can't now that I can't. No, So
each bank is stand alone, but every bank knows what
all the other banks have got.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
When you're applying for a.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Mortgage, you have to disclose everything.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Is there a benefit? Is there any sort of benefit
apart from avoiding getting foreclosed on every property by one
bank or something? Is there a benefit to having your
mortgages with different banks? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
For example, and the current economic climate is a perfect
example of how things can go wrong if you've got
it all cross secured. Let's say, for example, if you
lose your day job and you decide, oh, I've had
this rental property for fifteen years. If I sold that,
I've had some good capital growth over the last fifteen years.
(21:55):
If I sold that that'd give me enough money to
live off until I get another job. If all of
your lendings with one bank, the bank can actually ask
you to re qualify for the lending that's going to remain,
and if you don't because you've just lost your job,
they can keep the proceeds of the sale of that
property to reduce their risk.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
That is a major gem of advice, that really nice
stick around of the well actually, because that almost sounds
to me because we love the idea. I mean, we're
if you take your calls or queries on that, by
the way, if you've got some questions around this for
Debi Roberts, but that if I was just to take
the last couple of minutes of conversation, I would be
(22:38):
thinking because I mean, the convenience of being able to
log onto the same bank. I mean, I love the
fact that I go on to my an z app
and everything I needs there. I don't have a property investment,
but just you know, business bankings with them, et cetera,
et cetera. But I'm reading, just on this short conversation
that if I bought an investment property, I might even
(22:58):
want to in the first instance go to a different bank,
But definitely if I had another property on that, definitely
go to another bank, and.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
I would go a step further. And this is not
just because I'm a mortgage advisor as well, but I mean,
you know, because I can't do mortgage advice for everyone obviously,
but you know, do it all through your mortgage advisor.
Your mortgage advisors are professional and they work for you,
so you know they can help you pay off your
mortgages faster if that's your goal. They can help you
(23:29):
work out which bank to go to if you're coming
to the end of your interest only term or whatever.
There's lots of different options.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Are there any benefits to having the same bank for
all your investment properties?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Oh silent, I'm thinking, I mean, you'd have it all
in one app I suppose, but the disadvantages in my opinion,
much higher than the advantages.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Okay, what about in terms of the buying decision on
a house. Okay, so you've said a couple of mistakes.
Was not realizing you get different banks to learning that
you should have different banks, you know, spread your spread,
your loan, spread your don't know spread your banks basically,
and you've learned the lesson of being a property investor,
(24:17):
a manager of your properties. When you rent, your heart
wasn't really in it. What about the purchase decision? What
are the most common mistakes that people can make when
it comes to the decision on what house they buy?
What's some and have you made a clanger? Where you
going wrong? We shouldn't have bought that dog?
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Well, I think we realized fairly early on in our
journey that we needed to learn a lot more about it,
and so, you know, we educated ourselves in property investing.
We spent an absolute fortune educating ourselves about the business,
know how to run it as a business, and so
the mistakes that we made early on, you know, they
(24:56):
were more what we didn't know after we'd bought. So
thankfully the properties that we purchased all turned out to
be pretty good investments. It's over the long term. I
think the most common mistake that new investors make is
buying somewhere close to where they live, because they think
that's going to reduce the risk.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Although I guess the only counter to that would be
if you feel you know the market where you live best. Yes,
So is that a false Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I think it's potentially a false thing because not everywhere
has got good cash flow.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
In fact, some parts, well most parts of Auckland for example,
don't have good cash flow. But you know, and this
is where people get into that trap of thinking, oh,
but Auckland's got good capital growth, you know, so that's
where things come in stark. But you know, it's all
about balancing cash flow with capital growth. And for a
lot of our clients, the best place for them to
(25:54):
invest is not the area that they live in. Like
a lot of our clients live in small towns in
the South Island, for example, that wouldn't be an area
that I'd suggest that they invest.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
In my case, it would never happen because I doubt
that I can afford to buy an investment property in
sant Hellia's yeah right, Let's take some calls Tom, Hello, Hi.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
There, guys, Hey Debbie new builder, say for everybody, what
could be the pitfalls there as a rental?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
So my thoughts are at the moment in the current
property market where capital growth is pretty flat, if any,
there's no value add potential. If you're buying a new build,
you can't increase the value by renovating it or landscaping
because it's already all been done for you. New builds
also tend to be about six percent more expensive than
(26:45):
an existing property, so you know, you're really if you're
buying a new build, you're literally hoping for capital growth,
in my opinion, So you know, at the moment, there
are some potential potential benefits if you're buying off the plan,
because it's not likely that house fase are going to
(27:05):
drop too much over the next year or so, you know,
before the before the development's completed. But you know, it's
the negative cash flow. I think that's the biggest kicker,
because most new builds have got pretty strong negative cash
flow after all the expenses.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yes, okay, now I can see your point of view.
Now that's fair enough. So we've only just purchased the
land and the building will will go on or two
buildings will be in the next six months or six
months we'll say eight, say ten wish we'll think you
I think six months. But yeah, so that's not as
(27:46):
bad as just going along and buying a new build.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Potentially not. And I think multi income new builds are
certainly a way to get stronger cash flow than a
standalone property. So yeah, not necessarily the end of the
world for you. But yeah, make sure I hope, I
hope you did your homework on the developer.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, yeah, no's he's been in the game for fifteen act.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Well, that is actually one of the mistakes you can make,
isn't it. Is it a new build with developer, that's
probably worth yea check their track record a time.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Correct correct guys, All right, thank you for that guy,
very informative.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yes, I'm fascinated by this mortgage thing. Just before you
go to the break, Hi, guys, there's a text from
Steve says, it's exactly what happened to me. I sold
a second property to pay tax and to pay for
an engine and a truck IO five thousand bucks the
second property. I have five thousand on the second property,
and I owe three hundred thousand dollars in my first house.
(28:44):
And the bank took the money and paid the mortgage
on my first property then would not lend me in
more money against it. I really got in trouble with IID.
Thanks Steve. That sucks. Yeah, So here he is selling
is he's trying to do the right thing with the
ID sells the property and they say, well, now we're
going to pay it off you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean again, this is something that your mortgage
advisor could help with because they could get the bank
to give you a pre approval for the.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Dischat, so you could if you were in that situation,
you could talk to your bank and say, listen, I
need to do it for that and I need your
consent that I can apply the money for that purpose. Yes,
so there is a way of dealing with it.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
But the problem is if you've got no provable income,
you're a bit stuffed. If you had split banking, not
a problem because if you've if you've got your investment
property with a different bank, then you can sell that
without the first bank doing anything.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Well, that's very good advice. Right, We'll be back in
just a tack. And that sounded like I meant that
in some sort of patronizing way. I think that's really
interesting advice we've heard so far this afternoon. It's nineteen
and a half minutes to five.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
They get to.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yes, and don't ask me to recite any of the
lyrics to that song, because Sandler er, I can think
I can for that. But anyway, welcome back. I'm Tim Beveridge.
This is one roof radio show. We're talking about, well,
property has long often thought out by some as a
way of making passive income, but how much work is involved.
But we've also evolved to talking about in the conversation
with Debbie Roberts from Property Apprentice, about the mistakes you
can make along the way as well, or that you
(30:32):
should hopefully shouldn't make. And let's take some more calls.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
Kumar Good A Hey, Hi, good, thanks Debbie, Hi, very good. Debby.
Just wanted to to run past something. I'm so many
plus hears. And you've got a mortgage and on a
small investment property, very small mortgage. Our own home is
paid for. I was thinking whether we should look at
(30:59):
buying another property at the junction.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Yeah, So that that's question I can't really answer without knowing.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
A whole more about you.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
Yeah, we have already got a mortgage approved by another bank, okay,
which is not the current bank. Yeah, and we are
not condemplanning what we should do with that, okay.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
And you said you were seventy Yes. So the thing
about property investing.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Is that it's a long term strategy.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
So yeah, I think if if if you're looking at
a long term strategy, at the age of seventy.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I don't mean to sound like the grim Reaper or
anything like that.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
If you've got yeah, I would say, if you've got
cash funds available, then you'd be better off looking at
managed funds or something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Although we're not giving specific financial advice, but what what's
what's your goal? What's what you what when do you
need to see some money for tho?
Speaker 7 (31:59):
If you what basic basically having a cash flow going
through assignment, I'm still working for time and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
So would you be able to Are you talking about
just borrowing enough to get the right property, but you'd
still make some money on the rent?
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Correct?
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:18):
And I mean also potentially if you're looking at it
for you know, to hand down to the next generation
as well, so as a long term investment that you're
that your children couldn't hear it further down the track
or something like that, then that can make sense.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
Well, we've got around property between mortgage, friend, so that
can be their.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
So is it sort of like you've got some money?
Is it a bit like say you've got five hundred
thousand and you think I need to borrow another couple
hundred thousand. This will get me a property that will
get me so much rental return. That's correct, That's okay,
good guess that's an interesting way because you're still preserving
and capital, aren't you.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yes, And it does It really does depend on your
individual position, because I mean, like I can think off
the top of my head. I had a client that
I met with a couple of weeks ago, and they
were in a similar position, and for them, it made
more sense for them to like they were going to
make more cash flow by investing in managed funds rather
than purchasing property. So yeah, it really is an individual
(33:25):
question that you probably should get independent financial advice about that. Okay.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
Just another thing with rental properties as against putting it
on Airbnb. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (33:36):
So put long term long term rentals rather than Airbnb? Yeah,
I think both of them have got their place. Airbnb
or short term rentals can trigger gest if you earn
more than sixty grand a year, but you know, it's
a great way to help pay off.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
A holiday home.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Yeah, interesting, and it can.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Certainly give you stronger cash flow than long term rentals
in many so.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
We were just thinking about the one which we have
already the rentals, long term rentals coming up, and you
think you're converting that into Airbnb because we're in Oakland.
We don't live in Oakland, but we're in Oakland, CBD,
and I believe the demand's pretty high.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Yeah, and certainly with you know now that the international
students could be coming back as well, then you know
that that does have some potential for inner city apartments
for example. So yeah, I think of there's demand for
short term rentals and the property that you've got that's
certainly worth looking into.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Okay, thanks, I really appreciate it. How on Matt that's there.
I want to have Mike on there. Thanks for your
core real appreciate it. Right, Just time for another quick
one Neville.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Hello, guys, very interesting discussion covering some quite poignant points.
I invested in units a long time ago when I
worked off sure, mainly as a retirement sort of a play,
and what I found over the is you guys have
touched on it, but it needs to be stressed, is
(35:06):
the importance of being able to trust people. We talked
about property managers. You know, there are property managers and
property managers, and some of them it's you know, there's
very very little barrier the industry.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
Absolutely, yeah, it's one. Sorry, I don't mean to talk
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
No, no, please go ahead.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
I was just going to say that, you know, the
nz p IF, for example, they're they're quite keen on
getting regulation into the property management industry, and so are
most of the property managers that we talk to. Most
of them are like this, this needs to be regulated.
So I know that NZPIF would prefer private landlords not
(35:53):
to have to be regulated. My opinion on that's a
little bit different because I think the one the bad
landlords that we hear about in the media, they're all
private landlords, so you know, and they give the rest
of us about name. So if we regulated everybody, then
potentially we wouldn't have such a bad reputation.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Hey, thanks for your court nevel. Sorry a little bit
shorter time because we've got to come back with one
roof Property of the Week, which is next but nevill
appreciate you call it is ten to five news talk set.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Be the one roof property of the week on the
weekend collective.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yes, the one roof property of the week. If the
general rule of thumb for the one roof property of
the week I can share with you is generally my
producer tire Knee Roberts now Ward. My producer goes and
looks at a property where she thinks, I think I'd
like to live there, and it's a pretty good rule
of thumb, and she's got quite posh tastes. But anyway,
this the property of the week this week is nine
(36:49):
Burgundy Park Avenue in Henderson. It is it's massive, by
the way, and it has a pool which I quite
like because the pool has a sort of tree in
the middle and a bit of a rock feature and
things on a little bridge, and it's anyway. It's five bedrooms,
four bathrooms, four car garage and double car port. It
(37:11):
is six hundred The house itself is six hundred and
ten square meters. It's got a tennis courts, it's bliming huge,
and it's got an r V. The estimate apparently is
two point seven seven million, which does seem for the
amount of land kind of cheap. It's nine Burgundie Park Avenue, Henderson,
(37:31):
why Tackerty City. The r V is two point six
million estimate two point seven seven It's set on three
thousand square meters in Henderson, heights. Did I say, how
I come in to say Henderson? It's Henderson? Why takety city?
And anyway, Debbie, what what do you make of it?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
The games room looks like fun.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
The games room looks like there's like a.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Pool table and a ping pong table and like looks
like what's that thing?
Speaker 6 (37:58):
You know, what's the thing machine?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I hadn't scrolled that far. Oh yes, I do set.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
It looks like a great home for teenagers.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Yeah. And actually, the only thing I've got to say
not that it's my job to bag a property. Terracotta
tiles do sort of add a certain date to a place,
don't they. But you can change the color in your tap.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Absolutely you can.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
And I think that that's one of the benefits of
this property, you know, having just looked at it, it's
it does have some areas that you could modernize if
you wanted to, which could increase the value.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
So would you buy a property with a tennis court
if you didn't play tennis? And would you.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (38:39):
I mean I wouldn't know. But what I mean, does
it you might be interested in.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Learning if you've got a tennis court, does it sort
of limit your market to people? Who play tennis. That's
almost an eight hundred and eighty ten eighty worth a
half an hour ago, but unfortunately we've got about a
minute to go. I wonder that's an interesting philosophical question.
Of course, it's a lot of land. Whether it means
you can shoven the dwelling on there and do something
(39:06):
else with it, who knows with anyway, So go and
check it out. Nine Burgundy Park Avenue, Henderson. Great to
be on the show as always, Debbie, what are you?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You're off to your midwinter Christmas party? I am time
to unzip the fleece and reveals that the elves and
the reindeer on your on your shirt there, have a
great evening. Thank you, okay, and we'll be back. John
Cown is with us for the parents squad, talking about
sideline behavior, and if we've got time, we'll also delve
into can you ever tell off another appearent's children, because
(39:36):
we were going to do that last week we never
really got onto it, so I've got that on the
side as well. But sideline behavior, what's okay, what's not?
We'll be taking your calls. Eight hundred and eighty ten
to eighty. This is news Talk SEDB Weekend Collective. Back shortly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Listen live to News Talks EDB Weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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