October 26, 2024 • 36 mins
Recent studies from the United States show how detrimental being a parent can be to your mental health.
Tim Beveridge is joined by Parenting Place CEO Dave Atkinson to discuss how to maintain your mental health with children.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks Billy's.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage and
by the way, we've had a couple of fun hours.
Sometimes we deal with some fairly serious stuff, but it's
still fun. Parent the One Route, sorry, the One Roof
radio show with Nicole Lewis. You can check check that out.
That was the previous hour that will be up soon.
You can check wherever you podcast for the Weekend Collective.
iHeartRadio and also had a great fun panel with Cale
(00:53):
McDonald and Paul Spoonley. But right now not a butt
And right now it's time for the Parents Squad. And
my guest for the Parents Squad he is CEO of
The Parenting Place and his name is Dave Betcason. And
good afternoon. How are you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's lovely to be here on this rainy afternoon is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
A bit sort of I did see a forecast. Isn't
there going to be snow to low levels in the south? Really?
Do you see that too?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
They were looking at they reckon they could get three
or four millimeters in Canterbury and attag or something.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, I kind of like the rain. You know, there's
sort of there's a certain romance to it, you know,
like this afternoon he's in a popcorn movie. Put a
movie on, and it's kind of fun, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I don't mind the rain. I hate, hate hate wind.
Really are used too many hates. I don't like the wind.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
One not two would have been reasonable.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Three though, Yeah, Well it's just if it's rainy, if
it's you know, the rain's coming down, as you say,
if you can put a positive spin on it and
then you're not not at working on brave the elements,
you know, sit inside and feel good about not being
out on it. Yeah, or you can go and exercise
in the rain and feel virtuous when.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You get totally or anyone that loves wind sports, loves
that loves the wind. I think you just need to
reframe when it can be a real, real good thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I saw in my neck of the woods and Sinhalia
as they were wavesurfing, sorry, wakeboarding or whatever it is
with the with the kites and they're having a ball.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I thought you need to get into that term.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, that would be a little midlife crisis. I think said, hey, look, honey,
what I've bought anyway, how things at the parent What
have been keeping yourself busy at the parents place?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
We are very busy yet We've actually just recently launched
a new online course on tackling anxiety for young people.
It's a it's a course for parents whose children are
struggling with worry and anxiety, which is you know, we
just we saw through our family coaching and just out
in the community a lot of cares, a lot of
parents talking about anxiety. This this level of stress. It's
(02:50):
now tipped over towards towards you know, really struggling mental
health for kids. So we thought there wasn't a lot
of support out there, so we created an online course
just to help parents get their head around it and
then figure out how do we help our kids work
through this.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Fantastic Yes, it does tie into a little bit what
we're going to talk about this afternoon, which is the
cost on people of becoming a parent. So parents, and
it's when you when I saw we were going to
have a chat about this. The simple question is parenting
bad for your mental health? There have been some developments
(03:26):
news wise on this, because you were talking to me
before about the surgeon generals tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, So the Surgeon General in America is the highest
medical medical person and they one of one of their
jobs has to put out advisories sort of highlighting mental
health crises that that the public need to be aware of.
The they put for example, they're the ones that put
stickers on cigarette packs that you know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Talk about, oh, smoking can kill you.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So they've put they've put a few things out recently
around eas cigarettes, youth. They put an advisory out around
youth mental health as it relates to technology, so that
the current Surgeon General is definitely picking up that health
is more than just for called these a mental health element.
I thought it was really interesting though. Recently he put
out an advisory that talked about parenting stress is now
(04:15):
a public health crisis because the way that we are
parenting in this modern age and the unique stresses that
we're living through as parents means that we've tipped over
from it just being a hard job to actually parenting
causing quite significant mental stress.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
For a lot of parents.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
He highlighted in the report that forty eight percent of
parents said that they reported feeling overwhelmed by stress most days. Wow,
now you're a parent I'm a parent. It's stressful, right,
But the question is has it tipped over towards being
an actual mental health public health crisis. And obviously that's
(04:56):
very individual. But I would say when I do, when
I look across New Zealand and I think about the
types of parents that we're supporting, these are parents that
are dealing with acute challenges with your kids. These appearans
just struggling with the day to day realities of work,
finance and parenting, and it is overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The satirical side of my sense of humor has me imagining.
So if they've got they have warnings on packets of
cigarettes that you know, they have warnings on a cot
or on a packet of contraceptive sort of advices or pearls,
it's like warning parenting can be hazardant to your health.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And instead of instead of an ugly photo of some
sort of lung cancer, it's just as a crying child
or something.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
That's quite depressing.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you know, it's interesting with parenting because it's this
mixture between absolute love, adoration and joy and pull your
hair out stress, like what did we sign up for?
And you can fluctuate between those two points in like
two minutes. I mean, is it just mean? Tim?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Oh? No, I was thinking about that. Just one of
my daughters said something that kind of last night was
kind of upset me, hurt my feelings, and I went
and I really, really, I really was like, I'm not
feeling the love for you right now. You're horrible a
little so and so. And I was thinking that, hag on, Tim,
this is not reasonable because actually you absolutely love her
(06:26):
to bits, but was an emotional reaction for me, and
you realize that roller coaster that you're just constantly going
through where they Because I had a state of zen
for the last few days on parenting where I was
appreciating everything about my family for quite a while, and
I thought, how long is this going on?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I did, what were you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I was just thinking about a whole lot of things,
about the challenges of life and work and all that
sort of stuff, and worry about money and all sorts
of things. And I thought, I just reflected on how
great my kids were and I was and my wife
and I was actually literally I basically just I wouldn't
say I forced myself, but I encouraged my self into
(07:05):
a state of gratitude where I thought, and a gratitude
is a great way of dealing with stress in a
way to think about the things. I'm making this up
as a go along. By the way, there's not a philosophy,
but I'm realizing that getting yourself into a state of
gratitude for the good things is really quite powerful.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, what you focus on matters hugely. And you know,
we are all dealing with stresses and we've all got
a lot to be grateful for. And it's interesting just
kind of taking a bit of a bit of stock
on where your mind goes and what you tend to
focus on. You know, thinking about something negatively for a
day is okay, but if you dwell on something for days, weeks,
and months, that becomes your reality. So yeah, I mean, look,
(07:43):
I don't want to overstate the importance of you know, mindfulness.
There are very real stresses that should be paid attention to,
and I think it's important that parents understand if you're stressed,
it's not just because you need to have a better attitude.
There are some very real reasons why parents are stress
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
To set your cause on this, are you because I
actually hadn't when we were discussing this. I did not
know about that US Surgeon General's advisory. So basically, the
US Surgeon Generals issued an advisor around the mental health
and well being of parents. Yeah, is this a shock
to you if you're listening or are you completely non
(08:20):
surprised by this or there is another side to it?
Do you think this is a little bit of an
overreach on behalf of the Surgeon General that come on,
life is stressful? Everything stressful? You are demon not I
mean to me an advisory like this is almost like
demonized and being a parent, it's like, well, you know
it's going to affect your mental health. What was your
(08:42):
reaction to it?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, in some ways, I thought it was quite refreshing
because it actually named something that we're observing and I
feel as a parent, but I absolutely pick up what
you're saying, which is that you know you start to go, well,
you know, maybe you can think a bit more cynically
about this. Come on, like you know, everybody's going through stress.
And he's a question, it's parenting different now than it
has been?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Is it more stressful?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
And I think the answer is yes. And there are
quite a few reasons why parenting is different now than
it has been for a very long time. Now, let's
be honest. You know, back in the day with you know,
infant mortilitates and you know, lack of access to health care,
I mean yeah, I mean that that was really stressful.
What we're observing now is that we've gone through this
(09:25):
era of an incredible growth in standards of living, life expectancy,
access to health care opportunities, and access to a high
standard of living. However we've tipped over, We've reached a
tipping point, and actually now there is real concern from
a lot of parents that the world that kids are
growing up in is not going to be as The
(09:49):
standard of living they're going to live in is not
going to be as high as their parents expected. Cost
of livings increasing, especially in the house of the price
of housing, and there are a lot of pressures like mental,
like social media and technology that are uniquely impacting what
it means to be human and how we feel about
our lives.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I would say that that one there is the big one,
I think, which is because as you in fact you
almost took the rug out from underneath me on the
infant montality. If you were in the Victorian era, people
had large families because they didn't expect all the kids
to survive. For one, I mean, it was common for
(10:29):
children to die in infancy or of early diseases and things,
and we don't have that nearly. We don't have that
now really, apart from I mean, there are risks to kids,
but it's generally not disease because you've got the option
of immunization of things as part of the stress. Also
that our expectations. I mean, I think if you're born
(10:50):
into a life where you can't take the lives of
your kids for granted, your expectations are such that when
the proverbial HiT's the fan, you're almost prepared for it
because it's tough out there. Whereas now we haven't expect
Our expectations have shifted, and therefore our stress levels do too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, do you think, oh, absolutely, expectations huge?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
What's that phrase? Expectations minus reality equals happiness.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I'll get my producer to google that one about expectations
minus reality.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So if your expectations are high, or is it what
reality minus expectations? I think it might be that way around.
But either way, the point of it is that you
how you feel about your circumstances. Very much depends on
what you expected in the first place. So I think
you're right. But but also, you know, one of the
things that Surgeon General pointed to is, and similar to
(11:44):
your point here around expectations, there's a lot more engaged
parenting then there was back in let's say the seventies
or eighty. So back in the day kids were left
outside to play. Parents played much less of an active
role in their kids' lives. They fed them, made sure
they had had a place to sleep, and kind of
(12:05):
just let them do their thing. Now, obviously I'm sort
of simplifying the argument, but now with the advancements in
brain scanning and understanding around attachment and development, parents have
a lot more information, but a lot more pressure then
to be really engaged in their parenting and be really
intensive in their parenting. So there's information around.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Have we got too much carry on?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, that's the risk, right, yeah, is there's so much
pressure around how much TV or not you should be using,
how you should be engaging with your kids, singing and reading,
and then getting kids into the right schools and pushing
them academically, and so there's just a lot more engagement
in kids' lives. A lot more time is being spent
in their lives, and therefore a lot more pressure parents
(12:48):
are putting on themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Time spent in their kids' lives. In a way, it's
funny one because in a way, when I would I
can imagine people who are listening saying, well, parents were
more engaged in their kids' lives because they weren't tied
up on their own mobile phones as well, yea, and
their own connected lives because you know, we're all so
connected with our jobs and our work so much. I'm
(13:13):
wondering if I'm just wondering, which generation would have spent
more time with their kids just being there, you know
what I mean, being present. I don't have the answer
to this because I'm just shooting from the hip. Yeah, yeah,
So we would like your calls on this. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eight Is it more stressful now as
(13:36):
a parent that you can understand? The General Surgeon Surgeon General, Sorry,
I've got that all around wrong. The US Surgeon General
has basically issued an advisory on the mental health and
wellbeing of being a parent. Actually, I'll put that that's
probably not fair. Their should an advisor on the mental
(13:57):
health and well being of parents in general. Does it
surprise you and as being a parent today, do you
think is it more stressful? But if so, why have
you found it more stressful? We wanted your calls on
this would love you to join us. Eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two and you
can email. Actually not forget the email. We're here for
calls and texts. Okay, let's crack on. It's a news
(14:17):
talks here. B twenty one past five yd get your one.
I'm I'm.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
One week. I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Tell me to one day maybe next week.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'm amja. Welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beveridge and this is the parent Squad. My guest
is the CEO of the Parenton Place and it's day
bat concern hey. By the way, the work that the
Parenting Place do was like to tell people how they
(15:01):
can catch up with what you guys are up to, Dave,
where do they go? Sang on second your microphone.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
That Parenting Place Do Indeed is our website or you
can find us on social media. Just type in Parenting
Place Indeed and we can we do a whole bunch
of things to support parents. We have articles, we have
online courses, we have courses on Zoom or courses in
the community, and then we do one on one coaching
as well, and counseling for parents, a lots of different ways.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You have to have centralized premises just because I know
a lot of the stuff you do is online. Is
there a place because always imagine parenting places somewhere you
can go and sort of hang out.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, we have an office, but most of the work happens,
you know, out in the community right across the country
and different community organizations and social services.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And yeah, so we're talking about stress of parenting. Is
parenting bad for your mental health? Eight hundred eighty ten
to eighty Tell us about your journey. We'd love to
hear have your feedback. Actually, we must well talk about
our own journeys, Dave, parenting affected your mental health? It's
hard to share this stuff in a way.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, I mean it's very stressful. I mean, I like you,
I'm always trying to be thinking really carefully about being grateful,
appreciating what my kids' strengths are, but equally their weaknesses
are the flip side of their strengths. So you know,
I think kids are amazing at finding your buttons. They're
amazing at because they you know, they really do depend
(16:23):
on you. And parenting is fundamentally about self sacrifice. It's
about living with an irrational human being, and about and
about taking the higher ground. Every day. It's about for us,
battling to getting to the shower, eating the right food.
But then you have these moments of bliss where you know,
(16:45):
my son will say, hey, come and play basketball with me,
or my daughter currently loves me throwing her onto a parlor,
pillows on the bed, and you know, sure when she
wants me to throw her on the bed, I might
be tired or have us all back, but there is
there is joy in listening to her giggle and scream.
She grabs my little hand or her little hands mine,
(17:05):
she walks me down to the room. And then she's
also non verbal, so she's sort of gestures and points and.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
She's five or yeah, because you've got a five and
a five and a nine year oh yeah, yeah, it's
funny my girls. In fact, I almost let them do it.
They have this thing when they were little kids that
pretend they were Koala and I had to make like
I'm a tree and hold my arms out sort of
lock them out to the sides, and they would climb up,
(17:32):
literally climb up my leg and climb up and then,
you know, give me a kiss, as if they are
koala nibbling on some gum leaves. But I won't say
which one still does it, or whether it's both of them,
for their own privacy. It might not be both, There
might be one, could be neither of them, But there
have been the odd request Daddy do the koala thing.
I'm like, honey, you are both, you know, because they're
(17:53):
twelve and fourteen and daddy's not that strong. But it's like, I.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Imagine a fourteen year old climb with that view.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Oh well, it might not have been here, probably just
in case their friends are listening. It didn't happen. But actually,
I sometimes they do ask you to do things, and
if you are distracted, then you end up having oh, look,
I can't do that right now, and you do have
to really just go, okay, put whatever you're doing down
(18:20):
because one day they'll be leaving harmy regretting it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, it's self sacrifice, that's what it is. And you know,
there's often, you know, when they want to hang out
with you is not often when you want to hang out.
But yeah, you've got to remember, actually, this is a
short window of time. Make the most of it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Now.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We're also talking about the stress of intensive modern parenting,
and sometimes the pressure to do it right means we
feel this overwhelming burden of responsibility. And so one of
the messages we often talk about at parenting place is
good enough parenting. You don't have to be perfect all
the time.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You don't have to.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You know, it's okay to get upset occasionally, it's okay
to resort to putting them in front of the TV
to get through a stressful day. Good enough. It's good enough.
Your kids are resilient and they will attach and develop
a secure attachment to a parent who's not perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Actually, the other that ties in with something else. I
remember hearing about parenting saying that no matter how, I'm
not lousy parent, but it's no matter the mistakes you make.
You know, it's amazing how your kids have a way
of turning out or right. Yeah, So don't hang their
success on you being perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And also, you know, one of the paradoxes of parenting
is that your kids need to feel pain and pressure
if they're going to develop resilience. So if you pave
the way so that they don't experience any stress in life,
then they're not going to learn those incredibly important, valuable
lessons that I can. I can face a hard time,
(19:47):
and I can overcome it and I can do it again.
So actually, I'm not saying I'm not suggesting to parents,
you know, be absent or be you know, be aggressive,
and that's going to help your kids, It's what I'm saying.
But if you're a bit busy, if you have to
say to them, wait ten minutes before I can play,
If you get a bit grumpy and you get it
in a raise your voice, your kids are okay. They'll
manage fine. And in fact, one of the things I
(20:09):
love about parenting is this rupture and repair idea, where
in any relationship you have, there's always a rupture, but
when it's ruptured and it's repaired, what you're telling your
kids is actually, I can mean to broken relationships, I
can see that mummy's stressed and we can will be okay.
And that's a really important lesson for them to loom.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And along outside that is. I think there's some parents
who don't like to apologize to their kids because I
think it means I've met and they're wrong. I'm say
I'm sorry all the time. If I get a bit shirty,
I'll be like, I'm really sorry about that. And actually
those are some of the nicest moments in a way. Right,
let's take some calls. Is parenting bad for mental health?
And that follows the Surgeon General assuming an advisor and the
(20:50):
mental health and well being of parents in the United States? Okay,
United States? Is the United States. Maybe they're a bit
crazy or not. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.
That's a political point for me. Don't get triggered, Fraser.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Hello, a very good afternoon. How are you good?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Things are you doing?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
We're great? Is parenting good for your mental health? Absolutely? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
The best thing that ever happened to me?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Really? What having kids?
Speaker 6 (21:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, you've talked about you're talking about a bundle of
joy that arrives on the twenty seventh of May and
the twenty eighth of December, and you you are completely
changed person. I don't mean are you in a relationship
with your wife? But now you've got, and my case,
(21:45):
two Grouse kids, two Grouse boys, who today are parents
themselves and who have learned so much from their parents
that is now perfective in our grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Did you find it stressful having kids?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
No, No, we were so lucky. We had a we
had a great rural lifestyle. We had both Batch's caravans,
all that sort of faith. I'm one of I'm one
of five, my two boys of one according grandchildren to
my late father and my current mother, my mother who's
still alive, sound and that sort of thing. And yeah,
(22:23):
just real close knit on the phone talking to sister
in laws of brothers and that sort of we've already
had children, and just your support network is a big
part of it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think one of the
challenges for parents these days is that they have lost
that village, you know, the not for all parents, but
for a lot of parents, they've they don't have that
support and so they're they're parenting alone, or they're parenting,
you know, with two parents working and they're just really
struggling with the time. But you're right, I mean, having
(22:54):
children is the most incredible privilege. Kids put life in
perspective it's an it's amazing watching them grow and learn
and become. It's it's an incredible privilege. Yeah, I agree, Yeah,
it wouldn't change it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Some people listening to this phraser might say, you're ignoring
some of the tough times because you're making it sound
just like it was magnificent and end of story.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Yeah I was. I was just going to touch on
your rupture and with fear and believe you me, don't
you see, you don't do that. It never happened because
it happens on a more regular basis than what a
lot of people, what a lot if you realize. Oh
but then with inside the house as wellside the home.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, okay, Oh that's good. I'm pleased to hear it.
So you have been through those moments, because I thought
for a minute it was we were just it was
in danger of having raised into glasses. But I guess
you're looking back now that your granddad has become a
grand has becoming a grandparent? Is that sort of I
don't know anyone who doesn't like becoming a grandparent. In fact,
(23:59):
I wonder if they have the most fun sometimes.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I've got a great mate on the Kapity coast. He's
got a poster on with his three boys and his
three grandchildren that says the best dead become the best grandfathers.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Good stuff. Oh got to hear from your fraser. Hey,
it's almost like he was outside riding a horse or something.
There was a bit of a clip clopping thing going back.
I think he said he was a rurally he did.
Actually that was that is part of our conversation, by
the way, that we were going to get onto, but
he actually raised it. I almost wondered whether he was
almost something we're prepared earlier. But the stress of modern parenting. One.
(24:41):
We've got social media and devices, which you've talked about,
which I think are on ongoing and by the way,
I still feel like just every and again singing. One
of the things the government did some praises about the
banning of devices and schools Helleluliah. But the other change
is we does seem that there are generations of kids,
(25:03):
a generation of kids and parents who maybe don't have
the support of and I hate cliches, it takes a village,
but we don't quite have the village.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Oh we do, We don't, We really don't, you know,
you know, one of the reasons is the cost of
living is so high that young people are going to
having to leave the city centers to try and reduce
their cost of living. You've got two parents working in
order to pay the bills, and so you just don't
you're not living close, you know, you can't afford to
live close to family. And then even grandparents, you know,
(25:34):
are often really busy as well. So yeah, we definitely
don't have that community feel that I understand was there
back in the day. And so in some ways we've
got to create the village. We've got to create the
community around us. And one of the ways to do that,
and it's quite it sounds easy, but it's hard is
to ask for help, you know, to actually go to
your community and say we're struggling, we need help. My
(25:55):
wife and I.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Who would when you say go to your community, some
people go, what does that even look like? I don't
know where to begin.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Well, exactly. So there's lots of places, so you can, obviously,
if you've got them. You can go to grandparents, friends,
you can go to friends, school communities, online communities, even
your GP and some of the medical people around you
can offer help. But we don't often think to ask
for help. We knuckle down, we put our heads down,
(26:22):
we keep going. And one of the things my wife
and I we have a child with a disability, and
so we have some respite allowance and everyone knows, you know,
raising a child with the disability is challenging, but it's
really hard to ask for help because partly I don't
want to inconvenience other people. So one of the things
that we've had to get better at is actually saying, hey,
(26:43):
we're not coping. We need some support. And even if
it's just a bit of babysitting or someone coming over
for an hour just to give us a chance to
go for a walk, those small little breaks can actually
make a huge difference. So you know, not everyone's has
the ability to call on a grandparent. I know lots
of people who are raising kids without grandparents living close,
but you might be surprised actually even in a friendship group,
(27:05):
even in a school group talking to somebody and saying, hey,
would you mind looking after the kids for a couple
of hours while I do whatever I need to do.
The more we do that, the more we can catch
our breath, and the better your mental health is, the
better you can engage in your parenting.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I was just reflecting on like in my daughter's school,
the parents, you know, sort of coordinate with each other
on sporting things. But I sometimes wonder whether and this
is probably my own fault, because you just end up
so busy with things that the best time I've involved,
I've got engaged in terms of what I would have
felt like was more of a village sort of thing
(27:39):
is when we're the school camp and I volunteered to
be a dad at the school camp, and that was
probably when I felt the most connected with the school
because literally you are taking time to do things with
kids and with the other parents and stuff. But it
seems that those opportunities to connect, I mean, I've obviously
on the sideline sporting gigs. That's a little bit different
(28:01):
because then you know the sporting gigs over and stuff.
But it does feel that we, Yeah, this is more disjointed,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
There's a school pick up, school drop off, but often
we're so busy moving from one thing to another that
we're actually not slowing down in order to actually talk
to people and get to know them. So, you know,
as much as I can. One of the things that
we've been working on in our life is trying to simplify,
just trying to not say yes to so many things
so that when we are with people, we can be
more present. And I know that sounds a little cliche,
(28:28):
but it's very true. Often we just I don't have
the time to stop and have a conversation with someone,
And yet what am I missing out on? And I
think sometimes we're busy, but we're lonely and we're isolated.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, and I think that almost requires some sort of
deliberate discipline though, to give yourself that time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Absolutely, I mean I can't remember the number of times.
And any parent who's listening to this will recognize this.
You meet a parent, you get on really well, say look,
we almost us must have coffee. Do you ever actually
have that coffee? Or we must all get together for
dinner and stuff. And I know, and I'm telling myself
that actually we need to try and create those opportunities
more than just it's nice to express the intention. You're
(29:08):
basically saying, hey, I like you, Yeah, you like me.
We'd love to spend some time together, but it often
never happens. Yeah, And I sort of think I think
that's something I could probably I'd like to do better
on to you, but like that as well, or you
might be better at that time back concern you're the
sea of the parenting place.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, I definitely, since I was young, I've made a
real effort to build relationships and continue to maintain them.
They know, there's there's someone who's a pursuer and someone
who's a responder in a friendship, and it's amazing when
someone pursues you when they're texting you how.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You're doing, Do you want to grab a coffee?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
You want to hang out? And I'm typically a pursuer,
I have to be honest, though, in the last year
or so, with the stress of two young kids and
my daughter's disability, we definitely have slowed down and how
social we are. Partly it's actually to protect our own energy.
So you know, sometimes connecting with people and often can
be really life giving. Sometimes it can actually be really draining.
(30:01):
So it's just choosing what's right for your family. And
you know, for me, I don't often walk away from
hanging out with the friend and feel I often feel
quite energized. But I'm also extroverted and there will be
people listening who are introverted, and that wouldn't fill their
tank ups, so then you'll need to find other ways
to fill your tank.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I actually can't imagine anyone not enjoying spending time with people.
Are there interverted to time people who just don't like
having the coffee and ketchup? Well I must be I
guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I think that's obviously I'm an extra because I think
people enjoy it. But the question is whether it gives
them energy or not, you know, So it could be
that they enjoy it, but that they need to have
a big long break afterwards because they're exhausted.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That makes sense intuitively on some level. Hey, look we're
going to take a quick moment. We'll be back. My
guest is Dave Atkinson. You see a CEO of the
Parenting Place and talking about whether in fact parenting is
damaging to your mental health and how you manage that,
And I think just quickly that it's worth having the conversation.
On one basic front is that it's one of those
(31:02):
things I think we don't need time to acknowledge. But
of course life is stressful, so is having kids stressful
for your mental health? And now you taking time to
actually address it. One hundred eighty ten eighty it is
nineteen and a half minutes to six news talks.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
He'd be Donna lousianacross the New Orleans.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
We're back up in the woods among the evergreens. Just
go to law, having made of earth and wood. Well
in the country guard named Johnny BeGood who'd never ever
learned to read a write so well, but he could
play a guitar just like a ringing a bell. Go
go oh, Johnny God who oh, Danny go go go
(31:42):
Danny go go go Danny go do Johnny be Good?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And welcome back to the parents quae. I'me timed beverage.
My guest is Dave Atkinson, and actually Dave we were
talking in the break just about the stress of parents.
But one big thing I think is when you become
a parent. I know people have become parents basically lost
connection with a lot of friends because their friends didn't
become parents, and they just there's this massive wedge in
(32:14):
common or just time.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I mean, I reckon in lockdown, there were my whole
everyone's world just shrunk. And it's actually taken a long
time to kind of get back to a social norm
where I'm actually reconnecting with friends, some of them it's
been years, and it's important. I think friendships are very
much a reflection of how much time you spend with people,
and if you don't keep it up, I think you
don't get that richness of deep friendship. So I think
(32:39):
it's a really important thing to do. And when you're
when you're an adult and you've got stress and busyness,
that stuff can easily fall gosh, waiting.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I almost kept forgetting about COVID because you move on
and remember. But there was a bit of a bump,
speed bump. Well it wasn't. That's probably not a bad
way to put it. The speed bump, bloody big speed bump,
Mike writes, And my experience as a kid, great parenting
relies heavily on grandparents, God bless them. Since Mike, well,
not everyone's lucky enough to have grandparents.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
But yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, and I am very lucky.
We've got grandparents that live close by with them this afternoon,
and we are lucky. But yeah, for others, I mean,
you know, I know a lot of people that connect
with elderly people on their streets or their neighbors and
they become almost like a grandparent figure. So you know,
if you don't have grandparents live in close by, try
and connect into your community and find other people who
can invest in your kids' lives.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Another text to heresy is height. And one question that
might be relevant is whether we feel is a mental
health crisis or at least extreme challenge amongst a young people.
When you have a child with mental health issues, parenting
might go on a lot longer and have a lot
more challenges. I mean, our guess that makes sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It totally does. Yeah, And if you're struggling, absolutely talk
to somebody. I mean, you know this is again this cliche,
but chat to your GP. If you're struggling with your
mental health, talk to your GP about it. There's lots
of helplines. And also we need to destigmatize counseling. A
lot of people think that counseling is for, you know,
a crisis situation. But you know, parenting is stressful and
modern life is stressful, and having someone on your side,
(34:08):
like a counselor who you can go to regularly and
just kind of download what's going on, it can be
incredibly beneficial for you. And that will only have a
positive impact on your hand.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Also, because a lot of this and don't assume that
parenting is all about what you read about on Instagram
at all those wonderful moments, everyone finds it stressful. So yeah,
absolutely hard time. Right, let's take called Kerry high today.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
How's it going good?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Thanks?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Being a grandparents the best thing ever. I have suffered
for years with depression and anxiety. My wife and my
wife who's actually not blood related to my grandkids, but
we have been there since they won because their dad
(34:57):
no longer in the picture, so we've had to support
my grandkids. They're my daughter. But I I mean I
ring them four, five, six times a week and let
them know that we're here for them. And my wife
and I we both have three jobs, well try and
(35:19):
keep keep going, but the mortgage plus help them pay
rents and buy food. But I'll tell you what I
wouldn't want any other way. I mean, the great kids
and fantastic kills me because my green son wants to
be around us. Dad, my granddaughter actually told him to
(35:41):
basically go and but yeah, I mean it's the best thing.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Slice bread excellent. Hey, thanks so much for a call,
Kerry actually I hope I live long enough to be
a grandparent, although certainly not in an area right now. Hey, Dave,
thank you so much for coming in time, fly so
much when you're having fun, so.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Good look and if anyone's been less than going, yeah,
I'm struggling, you know, reach out to pre in in place,
and there's lots of ways we can fantastic.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I recommend to them heartily. And actually they've got some
great stuff. I tell you what. By the way, on
the device thing, I keep mentioning this, they've got a
contract for when you give you a kid a cell
phone on the rules around it. We need to get
ours out and have a look through those terms again.
So I'm sure we're not. But there's some great resources
going to Parentingplace dot m Z perfect.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's excellent.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Dave, right back in a moment to wrap sport and
just a moment, it's eleven minutes to sick.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks Billy's.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage and
by the way, we've had a couple of fun hours.
Sometimes we deal with some fairly serious stuff, but it's
still fun. Parent the One Route, sorry, the One Roof
radio show with Nicole Lewis. You can check check that out.
That was the previous hour that will be up soon.
You can check wherever you podcast for the Weekend Collective.
iHeartRadio and also had a great fun panel with Cale
(00:53):
McDonald and Paul Spoonley. But right now not a butt
And right now it's time for the Parents Squad. And
my guest for the Parents Squad he is CEO of
The Parenting Place and his name is Dave Betcason. And
good afternoon. How are you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's lovely to be here on this rainy afternoon is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
A bit sort of I did see a forecast. Isn't
there going to be snow to low levels in the south? Really?
Do you see that too?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
They were looking at they reckon they could get three
or four millimeters in Canterbury and attag or something.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, I kind of like the rain. You know, there's
sort of there's a certain romance to it, you know,
like this afternoon he's in a popcorn movie. Put a
movie on, and it's kind of fun, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I don't mind the rain. I hate, hate hate wind.
Really are used too many hates. I don't like the wind.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
One not two would have been reasonable.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Three though, Yeah, Well it's just if it's rainy, if
it's you know, the rain's coming down, as you say,
if you can put a positive spin on it and
then you're not not at working on brave the elements,
you know, sit inside and feel good about not being
out on it. Yeah, or you can go and exercise
in the rain and feel virtuous when.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You get totally or anyone that loves wind sports, loves
that loves the wind. I think you just need to
reframe when it can be a real, real good thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I saw in my neck of the woods and Sinhalia
as they were wavesurfing, sorry, wakeboarding or whatever it is
with the with the kites and they're having a ball.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I thought you need to get into that term.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, that would be a little midlife crisis. I think said, hey, look, honey,
what I've bought anyway, how things at the parent What
have been keeping yourself busy at the parents place?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
We are very busy yet We've actually just recently launched
a new online course on tackling anxiety for young people.
It's a it's a course for parents whose children are
struggling with worry and anxiety, which is you know, we
just we saw through our family coaching and just out
in the community a lot of cares, a lot of
parents talking about anxiety. This this level of stress. It's
(02:50):
now tipped over towards towards you know, really struggling mental
health for kids. So we thought there wasn't a lot
of support out there, so we created an online course
just to help parents get their head around it and
then figure out how do we help our kids work
through this.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Fantastic Yes, it does tie into a little bit what
we're going to talk about this afternoon, which is the
cost on people of becoming a parent. So parents, and
it's when you when I saw we were going to
have a chat about this. The simple question is parenting
bad for your mental health? There have been some developments
(03:26):
news wise on this, because you were talking to me
before about the surgeon generals tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, So the Surgeon General in America is the highest
medical medical person and they one of one of their
jobs has to put out advisories sort of highlighting mental
health crises that that the public need to be aware of.
The they put for example, they're the ones that put
stickers on cigarette packs that you know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Talk about, oh, smoking can kill you.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So they've put they've put a few things out recently
around eas cigarettes, youth. They put an advisory out around
youth mental health as it relates to technology, so that
the current Surgeon General is definitely picking up that health
is more than just for called these a mental health element.
I thought it was really interesting though. Recently he put
out an advisory that talked about parenting stress is now
(04:15):
a public health crisis because the way that we are
parenting in this modern age and the unique stresses that
we're living through as parents means that we've tipped over
from it just being a hard job to actually parenting
causing quite significant mental stress.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
For a lot of parents.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
He highlighted in the report that forty eight percent of
parents said that they reported feeling overwhelmed by stress most days. Wow,
now you're a parent I'm a parent. It's stressful, right,
But the question is has it tipped over towards being
an actual mental health public health crisis. And obviously that's
(04:56):
very individual. But I would say when I do, when
I look across New Zealand and I think about the
types of parents that we're supporting, these are parents that
are dealing with acute challenges with your kids. These appearans
just struggling with the day to day realities of work,
finance and parenting, and it is overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The satirical side of my sense of humor has me imagining.
So if they've got they have warnings on packets of
cigarettes that you know, they have warnings on a cot
or on a packet of contraceptive sort of advices or pearls,
it's like warning parenting can be hazardant to your health.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And instead of instead of an ugly photo of some
sort of lung cancer, it's just as a crying child
or something.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
That's quite depressing.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you know, it's interesting with parenting because it's this
mixture between absolute love, adoration and joy and pull your
hair out stress, like what did we sign up for?
And you can fluctuate between those two points in like
two minutes. I mean, is it just mean? Tim?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Oh? No, I was thinking about that. Just one of
my daughters said something that kind of last night was
kind of upset me, hurt my feelings, and I went
and I really, really, I really was like, I'm not
feeling the love for you right now. You're horrible a
little so and so. And I was thinking that, hag on, Tim,
this is not reasonable because actually you absolutely love her
(06:26):
to bits, but was an emotional reaction for me, and
you realize that roller coaster that you're just constantly going
through where they Because I had a state of zen
for the last few days on parenting where I was
appreciating everything about my family for quite a while, and
I thought, how long is this going on?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I did, what were you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I was just thinking about a whole lot of things,
about the challenges of life and work and all that
sort of stuff, and worry about money and all sorts
of things. And I thought, I just reflected on how
great my kids were and I was and my wife
and I was actually literally I basically just I wouldn't
say I forced myself, but I encouraged my self into
(07:05):
a state of gratitude where I thought, and a gratitude
is a great way of dealing with stress in a
way to think about the things. I'm making this up
as a go along. By the way, there's not a philosophy,
but I'm realizing that getting yourself into a state of
gratitude for the good things is really quite powerful.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, what you focus on matters hugely. And you know,
we are all dealing with stresses and we've all got
a lot to be grateful for. And it's interesting just
kind of taking a bit of a bit of stock
on where your mind goes and what you tend to
focus on. You know, thinking about something negatively for a
day is okay, but if you dwell on something for days, weeks,
and months, that becomes your reality. So yeah, I mean, look,
(07:43):
I don't want to overstate the importance of you know, mindfulness.
There are very real stresses that should be paid attention to,
and I think it's important that parents understand if you're stressed,
it's not just because you need to have a better attitude.
There are some very real reasons why parents are stress
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
To set your cause on this, are you because I
actually hadn't when we were discussing this. I did not
know about that US Surgeon General's advisory. So basically, the
US Surgeon Generals issued an advisor around the mental health
and well being of parents. Yeah, is this a shock
to you if you're listening or are you completely non
(08:20):
surprised by this or there is another side to it?
Do you think this is a little bit of an
overreach on behalf of the Surgeon General that come on,
life is stressful? Everything stressful? You are demon not I
mean to me an advisory like this is almost like
demonized and being a parent, it's like, well, you know
it's going to affect your mental health. What was your
(08:42):
reaction to it?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, in some ways, I thought it was quite refreshing
because it actually named something that we're observing and I
feel as a parent, but I absolutely pick up what
you're saying, which is that you know you start to go, well,
you know, maybe you can think a bit more cynically
about this. Come on, like you know, everybody's going through stress.
And he's a question, it's parenting different now than it
has been?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Is it more stressful?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
And I think the answer is yes. And there are
quite a few reasons why parenting is different now than
it has been for a very long time. Now, let's
be honest. You know, back in the day with you know,
infant mortilitates and you know, lack of access to health care,
I mean yeah, I mean that that was really stressful.
What we're observing now is that we've gone through this
(09:25):
era of an incredible growth in standards of living, life expectancy,
access to health care opportunities, and access to a high
standard of living. However we've tipped over, We've reached a
tipping point, and actually now there is real concern from
a lot of parents that the world that kids are
growing up in is not going to be as The
(09:49):
standard of living they're going to live in is not
going to be as high as their parents expected. Cost
of livings increasing, especially in the house of the price
of housing, and there are a lot of pressures like mental,
like social media and technology that are uniquely impacting what
it means to be human and how we feel about
our lives.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I would say that that one there is the big one,
I think, which is because as you in fact you
almost took the rug out from underneath me on the
infant montality. If you were in the Victorian era, people
had large families because they didn't expect all the kids
to survive. For one, I mean, it was common for
(10:29):
children to die in infancy or of early diseases and things,
and we don't have that nearly. We don't have that
now really, apart from I mean, there are risks to kids,
but it's generally not disease because you've got the option
of immunization of things as part of the stress. Also
that our expectations. I mean, I think if you're born
(10:50):
into a life where you can't take the lives of
your kids for granted, your expectations are such that when
the proverbial HiT's the fan, you're almost prepared for it
because it's tough out there. Whereas now we haven't expect
Our expectations have shifted, and therefore our stress levels do too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, do you think, oh, absolutely, expectations huge?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
What's that phrase? Expectations minus reality equals happiness.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I'll get my producer to google that one about expectations
minus reality.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So if your expectations are high, or is it what
reality minus expectations? I think it might be that way around.
But either way, the point of it is that you
how you feel about your circumstances. Very much depends on
what you expected in the first place. So I think
you're right. But but also, you know, one of the
things that Surgeon General pointed to is, and similar to
(11:44):
your point here around expectations, there's a lot more engaged
parenting then there was back in let's say the seventies
or eighty. So back in the day kids were left
outside to play. Parents played much less of an active
role in their kids' lives. They fed them, made sure
they had had a place to sleep, and kind of
(12:05):
just let them do their thing. Now, obviously I'm sort
of simplifying the argument, but now with the advancements in
brain scanning and understanding around attachment and development, parents have
a lot more information, but a lot more pressure then
to be really engaged in their parenting and be really
intensive in their parenting. So there's information around.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Have we got too much carry on?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, that's the risk, right, yeah, is there's so much
pressure around how much TV or not you should be using,
how you should be engaging with your kids, singing and reading,
and then getting kids into the right schools and pushing
them academically, and so there's just a lot more engagement
in kids' lives. A lot more time is being spent
in their lives, and therefore a lot more pressure parents
(12:48):
are putting on themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Time spent in their kids' lives. In a way, it's
funny one because in a way, when I would I
can imagine people who are listening saying, well, parents were
more engaged in their kids' lives because they weren't tied
up on their own mobile phones as well, yea, and
their own connected lives because you know, we're all so
connected with our jobs and our work so much. I'm
(13:13):
wondering if I'm just wondering, which generation would have spent
more time with their kids just being there, you know
what I mean, being present. I don't have the answer
to this because I'm just shooting from the hip. Yeah, yeah,
So we would like your calls on this. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eight Is it more stressful now as
(13:36):
a parent that you can understand? The General Surgeon Surgeon General, Sorry,
I've got that all around wrong. The US Surgeon General
has basically issued an advisory on the mental health and
wellbeing of being a parent. Actually, I'll put that that's
probably not fair. Their should an advisor on the mental
(13:57):
health and well being of parents in general. Does it
surprise you and as being a parent today, do you
think is it more stressful? But if so, why have
you found it more stressful? We wanted your calls on
this would love you to join us. Eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two and you
can email. Actually not forget the email. We're here for
calls and texts. Okay, let's crack on. It's a news
(14:17):
talks here. B twenty one past five yd get your one.
I'm I'm.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
One week. I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Tell me to one day maybe next week.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'm amja. Welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beveridge and this is the parent Squad. My guest
is the CEO of the Parenton Place and it's day
bat concern hey. By the way, the work that the
Parenting Place do was like to tell people how they
(15:01):
can catch up with what you guys are up to, Dave,
where do they go? Sang on second your microphone.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
That Parenting Place Do Indeed is our website or you
can find us on social media. Just type in Parenting
Place Indeed and we can we do a whole bunch
of things to support parents. We have articles, we have
online courses, we have courses on Zoom or courses in
the community, and then we do one on one coaching
as well, and counseling for parents, a lots of different ways.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You have to have centralized premises just because I know
a lot of the stuff you do is online. Is
there a place because always imagine parenting places somewhere you
can go and sort of hang out.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, we have an office, but most of the work happens,
you know, out in the community right across the country
and different community organizations and social services.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And yeah, so we're talking about stress of parenting. Is
parenting bad for your mental health? Eight hundred eighty ten
to eighty Tell us about your journey. We'd love to
hear have your feedback. Actually, we must well talk about
our own journeys, Dave, parenting affected your mental health? It's
hard to share this stuff in a way.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, I mean it's very stressful. I mean, I like you,
I'm always trying to be thinking really carefully about being grateful,
appreciating what my kids' strengths are, but equally their weaknesses
are the flip side of their strengths. So you know,
I think kids are amazing at finding your buttons. They're
amazing at because they you know, they really do depend
(16:23):
on you. And parenting is fundamentally about self sacrifice. It's
about living with an irrational human being, and about and
about taking the higher ground. Every day. It's about for us,
battling to getting to the shower, eating the right food.
But then you have these moments of bliss where you know,
(16:45):
my son will say, hey, come and play basketball with me,
or my daughter currently loves me throwing her onto a parlor,
pillows on the bed, and you know, sure when she
wants me to throw her on the bed, I might
be tired or have us all back, but there is
there is joy in listening to her giggle and scream.
She grabs my little hand or her little hands mine,
(17:05):
she walks me down to the room. And then she's
also non verbal, so she's sort of gestures and points and.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
She's five or yeah, because you've got a five and
a five and a nine year oh yeah, yeah, it's
funny my girls. In fact, I almost let them do it.
They have this thing when they were little kids that
pretend they were Koala and I had to make like
I'm a tree and hold my arms out sort of
lock them out to the sides, and they would climb up,
(17:32):
literally climb up my leg and climb up and then,
you know, give me a kiss, as if they are
koala nibbling on some gum leaves. But I won't say
which one still does it, or whether it's both of them,
for their own privacy. It might not be both, There
might be one, could be neither of them, But there
have been the odd request Daddy do the koala thing.
I'm like, honey, you are both, you know, because they're
(17:53):
twelve and fourteen and daddy's not that strong. But it's like, I.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Imagine a fourteen year old climb with that view.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Oh well, it might not have been here, probably just
in case their friends are listening. It didn't happen. But actually,
I sometimes they do ask you to do things, and
if you are distracted, then you end up having oh, look,
I can't do that right now, and you do have
to really just go, okay, put whatever you're doing down
(18:20):
because one day they'll be leaving harmy regretting it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, it's self sacrifice, that's what it is. And you know,
there's often, you know, when they want to hang out
with you is not often when you want to hang out.
But yeah, you've got to remember, actually, this is a
short window of time. Make the most of it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Now.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We're also talking about the stress of intensive modern parenting,
and sometimes the pressure to do it right means we
feel this overwhelming burden of responsibility. And so one of
the messages we often talk about at parenting place is
good enough parenting. You don't have to be perfect all
the time.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You don't have to.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You know, it's okay to get upset occasionally, it's okay
to resort to putting them in front of the TV
to get through a stressful day. Good enough. It's good enough.
Your kids are resilient and they will attach and develop
a secure attachment to a parent who's not perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Actually, the other that ties in with something else. I
remember hearing about parenting saying that no matter how, I'm
not lousy parent, but it's no matter the mistakes you make.
You know, it's amazing how your kids have a way
of turning out or right. Yeah, So don't hang their
success on you being perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And also, you know, one of the paradoxes of parenting
is that your kids need to feel pain and pressure
if they're going to develop resilience. So if you pave
the way so that they don't experience any stress in life,
then they're not going to learn those incredibly important, valuable
lessons that I can. I can face a hard time,
(19:47):
and I can overcome it and I can do it again.
So actually, I'm not saying I'm not suggesting to parents,
you know, be absent or be you know, be aggressive,
and that's going to help your kids, It's what I'm saying.
But if you're a bit busy, if you have to
say to them, wait ten minutes before I can play,
If you get a bit grumpy and you get it
in a raise your voice, your kids are okay. They'll
manage fine. And in fact, one of the things I
(20:09):
love about parenting is this rupture and repair idea, where
in any relationship you have, there's always a rupture, but
when it's ruptured and it's repaired, what you're telling your
kids is actually, I can mean to broken relationships, I
can see that mummy's stressed and we can will be okay.
And that's a really important lesson for them to loom.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And along outside that is. I think there's some parents
who don't like to apologize to their kids because I
think it means I've met and they're wrong. I'm say
I'm sorry all the time. If I get a bit shirty,
I'll be like, I'm really sorry about that. And actually
those are some of the nicest moments in a way. Right,
let's take some calls. Is parenting bad for mental health?
And that follows the Surgeon General assuming an advisor and the
(20:50):
mental health and well being of parents in the United States? Okay,
United States? Is the United States. Maybe they're a bit
crazy or not. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.
That's a political point for me. Don't get triggered, Fraser.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Hello, a very good afternoon. How are you good?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Things are you doing?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
We're great? Is parenting good for your mental health? Absolutely? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
The best thing that ever happened to me?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Really? What having kids?
Speaker 6 (21:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, you've talked about you're talking about a bundle of
joy that arrives on the twenty seventh of May and
the twenty eighth of December, and you you are completely
changed person. I don't mean are you in a relationship
with your wife? But now you've got, and my case,
(21:45):
two Grouse kids, two Grouse boys, who today are parents
themselves and who have learned so much from their parents
that is now perfective in our grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Did you find it stressful having kids?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
No, No, we were so lucky. We had a we
had a great rural lifestyle. We had both Batch's caravans,
all that sort of faith. I'm one of I'm one
of five, my two boys of one according grandchildren to
my late father and my current mother, my mother who's
still alive, sound and that sort of thing. And yeah,
(22:23):
just real close knit on the phone talking to sister
in laws of brothers and that sort of we've already
had children, and just your support network is a big
part of it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think one of the
challenges for parents these days is that they have lost
that village, you know, the not for all parents, but
for a lot of parents, they've they don't have that
support and so they're they're parenting alone, or they're parenting,
you know, with two parents working and they're just really
struggling with the time. But you're right, I mean, having
(22:54):
children is the most incredible privilege. Kids put life in
perspective it's an it's amazing watching them grow and learn
and become. It's it's an incredible privilege. Yeah, I agree, Yeah,
it wouldn't change it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Some people listening to this phraser might say, you're ignoring
some of the tough times because you're making it sound
just like it was magnificent and end of story.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Yeah I was. I was just going to touch on
your rupture and with fear and believe you me, don't
you see, you don't do that. It never happened because
it happens on a more regular basis than what a
lot of people, what a lot if you realize. Oh
but then with inside the house as wellside the home.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, okay, Oh that's good. I'm pleased to hear it.
So you have been through those moments, because I thought
for a minute it was we were just it was
in danger of having raised into glasses. But I guess
you're looking back now that your granddad has become a
grand has becoming a grandparent? Is that sort of I
don't know anyone who doesn't like becoming a grandparent. In fact,
(23:59):
I wonder if they have the most fun sometimes.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I've got a great mate on the Kapity coast. He's
got a poster on with his three boys and his
three grandchildren that says the best dead become the best grandfathers.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Good stuff. Oh got to hear from your fraser. Hey,
it's almost like he was outside riding a horse or something.
There was a bit of a clip clopping thing going back.
I think he said he was a rurally he did.
Actually that was that is part of our conversation, by
the way, that we were going to get onto, but
he actually raised it. I almost wondered whether he was
almost something we're prepared earlier. But the stress of modern parenting. One.
(24:41):
We've got social media and devices, which you've talked about,
which I think are on ongoing and by the way,
I still feel like just every and again singing. One
of the things the government did some praises about the
banning of devices and schools Helleluliah. But the other change
is we does seem that there are generations of kids,
(25:03):
a generation of kids and parents who maybe don't have
the support of and I hate cliches, it takes a village,
but we don't quite have the village.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Oh we do, We don't, We really don't, you know,
you know, one of the reasons is the cost of
living is so high that young people are going to
having to leave the city centers to try and reduce
their cost of living. You've got two parents working in
order to pay the bills, and so you just don't
you're not living close, you know, you can't afford to
live close to family. And then even grandparents, you know,
(25:34):
are often really busy as well. So yeah, we definitely
don't have that community feel that I understand was there
back in the day. And so in some ways we've
got to create the village. We've got to create the
community around us. And one of the ways to do that,
and it's quite it sounds easy, but it's hard is
to ask for help, you know, to actually go to
your community and say we're struggling, we need help. My
(25:55):
wife and I.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Who would when you say go to your community, some
people go, what does that even look like? I don't
know where to begin.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Well, exactly. So there's lots of places, so you can, obviously,
if you've got them. You can go to grandparents, friends,
you can go to friends, school communities, online communities, even
your GP and some of the medical people around you
can offer help. But we don't often think to ask
for help. We knuckle down, we put our heads down,
(26:22):
we keep going. And one of the things my wife
and I we have a child with a disability, and
so we have some respite allowance and everyone knows, you know,
raising a child with the disability is challenging, but it's
really hard to ask for help because partly I don't
want to inconvenience other people. So one of the things
that we've had to get better at is actually saying, hey,
(26:43):
we're not coping. We need some support. And even if
it's just a bit of babysitting or someone coming over
for an hour just to give us a chance to
go for a walk, those small little breaks can actually
make a huge difference. So you know, not everyone's has
the ability to call on a grandparent. I know lots
of people who are raising kids without grandparents living close,
but you might be surprised actually even in a friendship group,
(27:05):
even in a school group talking to somebody and saying, hey,
would you mind looking after the kids for a couple
of hours while I do whatever I need to do.
The more we do that, the more we can catch
our breath, and the better your mental health is, the
better you can engage in your parenting.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I was just reflecting on like in my daughter's school,
the parents, you know, sort of coordinate with each other
on sporting things. But I sometimes wonder whether and this
is probably my own fault, because you just end up
so busy with things that the best time I've involved,
I've got engaged in terms of what I would have
felt like was more of a village sort of thing
(27:39):
is when we're the school camp and I volunteered to
be a dad at the school camp, and that was
probably when I felt the most connected with the school
because literally you are taking time to do things with
kids and with the other parents and stuff. But it
seems that those opportunities to connect, I mean, I've obviously
on the sideline sporting gigs. That's a little bit different
(28:01):
because then you know the sporting gigs over and stuff.
But it does feel that we, Yeah, this is more disjointed,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
There's a school pick up, school drop off, but often
we're so busy moving from one thing to another that
we're actually not slowing down in order to actually talk
to people and get to know them. So, you know,
as much as I can. One of the things that
we've been working on in our life is trying to simplify,
just trying to not say yes to so many things
so that when we are with people, we can be
more present. And I know that sounds a little cliche,
(28:28):
but it's very true. Often we just I don't have
the time to stop and have a conversation with someone,
And yet what am I missing out on? And I
think sometimes we're busy, but we're lonely and we're isolated.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, and I think that almost requires some sort of
deliberate discipline though, to give yourself that time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Absolutely, I mean I can't remember the number of times.
And any parent who's listening to this will recognize this.
You meet a parent, you get on really well, say look,
we almost us must have coffee. Do you ever actually
have that coffee? Or we must all get together for
dinner and stuff. And I know, and I'm telling myself
that actually we need to try and create those opportunities
more than just it's nice to express the intention. You're
(29:08):
basically saying, hey, I like you, Yeah, you like me.
We'd love to spend some time together, but it often
never happens. Yeah, And I sort of think I think
that's something I could probably I'd like to do better
on to you, but like that as well, or you
might be better at that time back concern you're the
sea of the parenting place.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, I definitely, since I was young, I've made a
real effort to build relationships and continue to maintain them.
They know, there's there's someone who's a pursuer and someone
who's a responder in a friendship, and it's amazing when
someone pursues you when they're texting you how.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You're doing, Do you want to grab a coffee?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
You want to hang out? And I'm typically a pursuer,
I have to be honest, though, in the last year
or so, with the stress of two young kids and
my daughter's disability, we definitely have slowed down and how
social we are. Partly it's actually to protect our own energy.
So you know, sometimes connecting with people and often can
be really life giving. Sometimes it can actually be really draining.
(30:01):
So it's just choosing what's right for your family. And
you know, for me, I don't often walk away from
hanging out with the friend and feel I often feel
quite energized. But I'm also extroverted and there will be
people listening who are introverted, and that wouldn't fill their
tank ups, so then you'll need to find other ways
to fill your tank.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I actually can't imagine anyone not enjoying spending time with people.
Are there interverted to time people who just don't like
having the coffee and ketchup? Well I must be I
guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I think that's obviously I'm an extra because I think
people enjoy it. But the question is whether it gives
them energy or not, you know, So it could be
that they enjoy it, but that they need to have
a big long break afterwards because they're exhausted.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That makes sense intuitively on some level. Hey, look we're
going to take a quick moment. We'll be back. My
guest is Dave Atkinson. You see a CEO of the
Parenting Place and talking about whether in fact parenting is
damaging to your mental health and how you manage that,
And I think just quickly that it's worth having the conversation.
On one basic front is that it's one of those
(31:02):
things I think we don't need time to acknowledge. But
of course life is stressful, so is having kids stressful
for your mental health? And now you taking time to
actually address it. One hundred eighty ten eighty it is
nineteen and a half minutes to six news talks.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
He'd be Donna lousianacross the New Orleans.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
We're back up in the woods among the evergreens. Just
go to law, having made of earth and wood. Well
in the country guard named Johnny BeGood who'd never ever
learned to read a write so well, but he could
play a guitar just like a ringing a bell. Go
go oh, Johnny God who oh, Danny go go go
(31:42):
Danny go go go Danny go do Johnny be Good?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And welcome back to the parents quae. I'me timed beverage.
My guest is Dave Atkinson, and actually Dave we were
talking in the break just about the stress of parents.
But one big thing I think is when you become
a parent. I know people have become parents basically lost
connection with a lot of friends because their friends didn't
become parents, and they just there's this massive wedge in
(32:14):
common or just time.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I mean, I reckon in lockdown, there were my whole
everyone's world just shrunk. And it's actually taken a long
time to kind of get back to a social norm
where I'm actually reconnecting with friends, some of them it's
been years, and it's important. I think friendships are very
much a reflection of how much time you spend with people,
and if you don't keep it up, I think you
don't get that richness of deep friendship. So I think
(32:39):
it's a really important thing to do. And when you're
when you're an adult and you've got stress and busyness,
that stuff can easily fall gosh, waiting.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I almost kept forgetting about COVID because you move on
and remember. But there was a bit of a bump,
speed bump. Well it wasn't. That's probably not a bad
way to put it. The speed bump, bloody big speed bump,
Mike writes, And my experience as a kid, great parenting
relies heavily on grandparents, God bless them. Since Mike, well,
not everyone's lucky enough to have grandparents.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
But yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, and I am very lucky.
We've got grandparents that live close by with them this afternoon,
and we are lucky. But yeah, for others, I mean,
you know, I know a lot of people that connect
with elderly people on their streets or their neighbors and
they become almost like a grandparent figure. So you know,
if you don't have grandparents live in close by, try
and connect into your community and find other people who
can invest in your kids' lives.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Another text to heresy is height. And one question that
might be relevant is whether we feel is a mental
health crisis or at least extreme challenge amongst a young people.
When you have a child with mental health issues, parenting
might go on a lot longer and have a lot
more challenges. I mean, our guess that makes sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It totally does. Yeah, And if you're struggling, absolutely talk
to somebody. I mean, you know this is again this cliche,
but chat to your GP. If you're struggling with your
mental health, talk to your GP about it. There's lots
of helplines. And also we need to destigmatize counseling. A
lot of people think that counseling is for, you know,
a crisis situation. But you know, parenting is stressful and
modern life is stressful, and having someone on your side,
(34:08):
like a counselor who you can go to regularly and
just kind of download what's going on, it can be
incredibly beneficial for you. And that will only have a
positive impact on your hand.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Also, because a lot of this and don't assume that
parenting is all about what you read about on Instagram
at all those wonderful moments, everyone finds it stressful. So yeah,
absolutely hard time. Right, let's take called Kerry high today.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
How's it going good?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Thanks?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Being a grandparents the best thing ever. I have suffered
for years with depression and anxiety. My wife and my
wife who's actually not blood related to my grandkids, but
we have been there since they won because their dad
(34:57):
no longer in the picture, so we've had to support
my grandkids. They're my daughter. But I I mean I
ring them four, five, six times a week and let
them know that we're here for them. And my wife
and I we both have three jobs, well try and
(35:19):
keep keep going, but the mortgage plus help them pay
rents and buy food. But I'll tell you what I
wouldn't want any other way. I mean, the great kids
and fantastic kills me because my green son wants to
be around us. Dad, my granddaughter actually told him to
(35:41):
basically go and but yeah, I mean it's the best thing.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Slice bread excellent. Hey, thanks so much for a call,
Kerry actually I hope I live long enough to be
a grandparent, although certainly not in an area right now. Hey, Dave,
thank you so much for coming in time, fly so
much when you're having fun, so.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Good look and if anyone's been less than going, yeah,
I'm struggling, you know, reach out to pre in in place,
and there's lots of ways we can fantastic.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I recommend to them heartily. And actually they've got some
great stuff. I tell you what. By the way, on
the device thing, I keep mentioning this, they've got a
contract for when you give you a kid a cell
phone on the rules around it. We need to get
ours out and have a look through those terms again.
So I'm sure we're not. But there's some great resources
going to Parentingplace dot m Z perfect.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's excellent.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Dave, right back in a moment to wrap sport and
just a moment, it's eleven minutes to sick.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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