November 2, 2024 • 38 mins
Most children reach a point in their pre-teen or teenage years when they grow more self aware, they begin to make comments that are critical of themselves.
Dougal Sutherland joins Tim Beveridge to discuss how parents should respond to these comments to avoid worsening their self-image.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
Being Gone.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
He's welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
And by the way, if you've missed any of the
previous hours you want to go check him out, go
look for the week In Collective where podcasts I suggest iHeartRadio.
But this is the Parents Squad. We want your calls
one ten eighty in text on nine two nine two.
And my guest today is Google Sutherland, who sort of
(00:57):
needs no introduction, but he is. How do we bill you?
Was going to get this right? At Google? You're a
psychologist with the umbrella.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The umbrella group, Umbrella Wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's the one umbrella wellbeing? And how are you keep on?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I'm exhausted today. I've been manning the White Elephants Stall
at the Saint Michael's Church here in Kelbourne, and I've
been blogging off things that nobody really need, all for
a good cause.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Really, the White Elephants what do they call it, the
White Elephant Stall.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I don't know where that name comes from, but it's
selling off all those things that you know, nobody else
really wants, like you know, an electric knife, and a
lower and you know, an old an old chilibin. But
you know it's good fun.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
But all you sold them, so obviously it's not completely
useless because people there's always a buyer, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well, well, people don't know they need these things until
they approach our stool, you see, and then that's when
you see those things and you go, gosh, I'd really
like not only one electric knife, but two electric knives
would be the thing for me.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Did you sell to electric knives today?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I sold two electric knives draws at the same person,
which was quite unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Actually, the electric knife that's very nineteen nineties, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think we've got one in the drawer. So I
think every New Zealand household has probably got one some
hidden away in a drawer somewhere that they haven't usual when.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
They're working, they're quite good and ours, basically we just
burnt it out and threw it away and just bought
a good old fashioned knife.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Away as fun. Isn't an electrical equipment like that? It's
always good fun to use if you can get it going.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Actually, if this wasn't the parents Squad, I'd be immediately
transitioning to eight hundred and eighty ten eighty what is
the most useless appliance you've ever bought or outdated? But
we're not going to do that right now. You always
text me if you want just for fun. Actually, what
we want to talk about today is something that I'm
looking It came out of just a conversation I've had
with other parents, and my wife and I are anticipating
(02:59):
this as well. Is because it's easy to look at
arrenteing when your children are not near that age where
it's really an issue, and you look at it, it's
body image issues and pear pressure and issues that can
lead to serious problems such as anorexia or beliema and
(03:20):
things like that, and body issued. When you are a
parent with where you're several years away from that becoming that,
you always think, oh, we cross that, but you'll need
to come to it. But we're getting to the age
with twelve and thirteen year olds where I've had conversations
with other parents quick where their child has raised a
(03:40):
question about their own body image or they've simply made
an observation like oh, you know, I'm my tummy's getting bigger,
or I'm getting this, and I suddenly realized I had
to chat with my wife about it. How are we
going to handle these moments because you want to acknowledge
reality that your kids get it growing up, that their
you know, their body shapes will change. And yet I'm
(04:05):
I must admit that now it's getting close to that
time where I'm going to have to feel questions. I
want to be prepared for it that I don't say
the wrong thing. Well, of course, it's natural that you're
going to get you know, say, for instance, somebody said
my tummy's getting a bit bigger or something, and I go, well,
that's natural, honey. I'm terrified that I've just said something
I shouldn't say, And I'm just wondering, how do you
navigate those things where, you know, in the world of
(04:27):
Instagram and everyone's perfect in Facebook, I'm nervous about handling
those questions where one of my daughters says that she's
not happy with the way she is.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And I think it's such a common thing that parents
are rightly worried about. You know, We've got this whole
thing at the moment around body image and what we
look like and comparing ourselves to other people. In terms
of how we look. I think my thoughts is that
it's good to sort of dig into those questions. You know,
(05:03):
if somebody says, my tummy's but burgle, this is a
bit changed Steve. If you can spend some time and say, oh,
you know, what's how do you feel about that? They
could be simply making an observation.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Or are they looking for me to say no, it's not.
See instantly, I'm like, as soon as you say, well,
how do you feel about that, They're like, you mean
you agree with me? So I'm petrified of the conversation
full stop.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think I think parents are rightly worried about this area.
I would say too that I think very it would
be a very rare circumstance where appearance says one thing
and it has a massive impact on their children's life
for the rest of their life. Okay, So, and I
think that's true across almost all areas of I can
(05:59):
that I can think of. We will often say occasional
throwaway comments or not a throwaway comments, occasional comments, and
usually one comment is not going to have a huge effect.
I think it's more the ongoing sort of culture or
focus in the family and in the environment that a
child lives and will have a much bigger, longer lasting effect.
(06:21):
But I definitely think it's worth probing a little bit
deeper when when those sorts of questions come up, because
you know, as you as you mentioned before, it's it's
it's a very well, it's entirely normal that people's bodies change,
you know, young people's bodies changes they hit puberty. It's
it's what we expect to happen. And I think don't
(06:43):
be afraid of having the conversation. It might be an
uncomfortable conversation, but don't be afraid of having it and
trying to you know, really, what we're trying to do
is introduce some normality to the conversation. Yes, change is normal,
and and really trying to get across the idea that
you know, it's okay whoever you are, really and it's
okay whatever shape you are, and let's perhaps notocus hugely
(07:06):
on that. But I also think that the conversations, the
rest of the conversations that happen in the family for
the rest of the time are also crucially important. Do
your kids, not you personally, tim but you know, do
kids overhear their parents talking about the parents' body image,
or I'm looking a bit overweight or I'm feeling a
(07:27):
bit weight, or are they being exposed to older siblings
or parents who are constantly dieting, And that's possibly going
to have much more of a lasting impact on a
child's perception of themselves and their body than a single
question or a single answer from a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You've just reminded me because last night one of my
daughters is I give them a hug good night before
I get a bit before they go to sleep, sort
of thing. She said to me. She did, Dad, you're
looking a lot slimmer right now. And because I was
like oh, and I wasn't sure how overjoyed I should
sound like, oh hooray, I sort of was like, oh
(08:06):
do I, I said, I don't know why that would be.
I said, oh, well, I'm you know, I'm trying not
to have so much chocolate.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
It's interesting, isn't it. How quickly we sort of even
implicitly kind of say, you know, link the fact that
somebody's called a slim or we've lost weight to that
being a good thing, or that we feel a bit
fat to that being a bad thing. And wouldn't it
be great if we could just sort of extract those
two from each other, so you know your body shape
(08:35):
and west doesn't have to reflect. It doesn't have to
be a good thing or a bad thing. It's just
a thing, really, and trying to take away the value
judgments from that, I think is really really helpful, if
that's possible.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I try to reflect on when I was growing up.
I mean, look, I'm family and boys, I'm not sure
if we're worried about how we I'm sure we did
in fact, but I don't. Obviously, my mum and my
dad never seem to ever ever talk about you losing
weight or anything. I think mum might have done weight
watches at one stage. We never gave it a second thought,
(09:09):
but we never ever heard them angsting if that's a
word about and I think that's probably quite important, isn't it.
If mum's constantly complaining about the way she looks and
is constantly on this diet or that diet because she's
not happy, then is that something that's going to rub
off on kids in a way.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I think that's going to be much more likely than
an occasional answer to a question, yes, absolutely. Look, I
think things have changed too since perhaps our time. I
think when you know, when we're younger, were growing up
in teens, especially for boys, there was much less emphasis
on body image and looks for boys now and that
(09:49):
has changed in the last ten or fifteen so years.
There has been a much bigger increase around you know,
body image or young men and for boys as well. Unfortunately,
it's always been there for women, and you know, society
is always judge women by how they look. But you're right,
(10:09):
it's those conversations if somebody in the family doesn't matter
if it's male or female, but if somebody and the
family is constantly dieting and focusing on weight and how
they look, and oh gosh, it's a great thing. You know,
I can celebrate now I've lost weight. That you think
about the message that that is sending your kids, especially
as they grow up and they hit puberty, when their
(10:31):
bodies will definitely change and they will at times be
uncomfortable with their bodies. You know that I think just
normalizing it and that that change is fine, it's normal,
and trying to take away this idea that actually being
slim is really good. And I can hear the counterargument
already people will be saying, yeah, but you know, we
(10:52):
don't want them to being obese and overweight, and and
of course we don't. But you know that we're not
talking about going to that extreme either. We're just talking about, Hey,
think about the culture and the way that you think
about food and dieting in your family. Just generally, it's
(11:12):
probably a good time to stop and think, as kids
are coming into teenage years about how do we talk
about weight image in our house.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Actually, intuitively, it absolutely makes sense that this is a
problem that's going to start affecting boys as well. Just
all you needed. The reason I'm moral that sort of
rings a bell with me is I was looking at
some old retro ads as to what a well muscled
man was in the seventies and eighties, and by today's standards,
(11:40):
they were pretty dweeby, you know, Yeah, a hint of
a six pack that was, you know, you were the
new Peter Stuyvesant guy or whatever it was advertising cigarettes.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that has been a huge change,
and certainly rates of eating disorders amongst males have increased
over the past ten to fifteen years. Remembering too, though,
it is worth remembering that the eating disorders are still
although they're very severe when you have them, they're still
(12:10):
relatively rare. They're not there's not a huge proportion of
the population has an eating disorder. Okay, but we don't
want to push nor do you want to say things
that are going to push kids towards that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay, well, look, we're going to take your calls on
this too. How do you navigate those years when your
kids are starting to be more conscious of their own
body image and having conversations with them where well, at
the very least you don't contribute to the problem, and
maybe you help your kids navigate that stuff without them
ending up with some sort of body what is it, dysmorphia,
all that sort of stuff and eating disorders. Let's take
(12:43):
some calls on that because we're keen to know if
you've actually managed to successfully navigate those waters as well. Jeff,
get how on a second, let me just click that
button again several weeks Jeff, Hello.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Hello button. I raise two boys all on my own. Okay. Now,
from the time they started growing up, I didn't give
them a chance too much chance to get bored or
sit down there and feel sorry for themselves or what
(13:16):
I look like or what I don't look like. Now,
when as the boys were getting a bit older, I
turned around and I got them into organizations. Now, both
my boys, I got them into soccer now, and it
was they had soccer on a on a Saturday morning,
(13:38):
and I was also coaching soccer in towern as well. Now,
So they were up on the Saturday morning and away
we went. And when they came home it was shower
and get changed and all that. But they had a
great day. They seemed to really enjoy it. So in
(14:00):
the summertime, even after work, but they were looking at
a bit down and out. I'd say to them, come on,
let's go. We're down the beach. Let's go for.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Uswim You just you just get them busy and active.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah. I just kept them busy and and I just
found that this was working. They were good thinkers. I
used to say them if they were rude to somebody,
I'd say, hey, knock it off. You don't talk to
people like that, okay, or you're not going to get
anywhere in life. Now. As the boys got a little
(14:39):
bit older and older, my older son joined cubs and
my other other son was still played. My younger one
still played soccer now. So when Adam got into the
cubs and on all that sort of the keys Cubs
and goodness knows what out and going out the next scene,
(15:04):
I could see the differ someone how was great And
so I've got I just kept the boys busy, you know,
like if the lawns needed mind to cut down one
of those guys.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Money. So I mean, guess keeping your busy is not
busy active in and you know makes sense, doesn't it? Injurity.
I'm not sure if Jeff's kids would have grown up
with social media. I'm guessing possibly not. That might be
the one complicating flying the ointment.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
There there is some wisdom I think of what Jeff
was saying around, you know, especially at teens. I'm a
really big fan of keeping teens, you know, getting them
involved and active and activities and groups and organizations where
that will take up their time and get them interested
in things. I often think for teenagers, what is it,
(15:58):
you know, idle hands of the devil's work for all
sorts of all sorts of things, but you know, keeping
them in bold to make.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
The devil's work. That's a biblical But I mean there
is something to that with kids. I guess, well, I mean,
my girls are very busy and we haven't had those
conversations yet. I'm sort of getting ahead of the game.
But I guess that's not necessarily the total antidote to it.
But certainly kids feeling busy and just being active all
(16:31):
the time is always going to be good for just
their general sense of well being. Does that help stave
off those sort of naval gazing moments of dissatisfaction?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Well, there's less time to do it, perhaps, as Jeff
was implying, but recognizing that adolescents of the time, when
you do, you do naturally become much more focused on
what your peers think and what others think. But being
involved with other teens are who are doing pro social,
positive things is a really good thing. Did you have.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Any you look back when you were a teenager? Did
you have any things that you would dissatisfy with yourself about?
Because I can't remember now. I'm sure. I'm sure there
are a few things, but.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I can. I can remember spending long time looking
in the mirror at my skin worrying about acne. Oh
that's and I can remember that, and and that's not
an unusual thing for an adolescents. A lot of that
sort of time looking at yourself in the mirror, comparing yourself.
(17:30):
You're trying to imagine what you should you really want
to look like, And of course you forget that. You'll
you get very very very very familiar with your face
and hear and look, and much more familiar than anybody else.
So you notice a tiny here out of place that
nobody else really looks at. But that isn't. That isn't.
That's a natural sort of thing in adolescence, and there
(17:51):
is that focus on ourselves and comparing us to our
peer group. So the more that we can do to
reduce that, the better, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Gosh, actually, the peer group was probably the problem. When
I was growing up, one boy had a bit of
problem with acting on us back and people said that
we used to get tea springing a back that looked
like a pizza. I forgot. People are crawl.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Twitch teenagers have some tear I can recalling people pizza face.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It was just I mean, I'm made it laughing because
here we are, as grown ups looking back on how
terribly we behaved.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
No, it's slightly embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Isn't it anyway. We'll be back in just a moment, though.
How do you navigate those moments where you where you
are worried that your teenagers? I think the question is
probably about losing perspective about natural changes in their bodies
and all that sort of stuff. How do you navigate
that so that they can just get through it in
a way that we all got through it hopefully. O
eight hundred eighty twenty five past five. We'll be back
(18:48):
with Jane and Matthew in just a moment, and welcome back.
(19:11):
This is the Parents Squad. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest
is Google Sutherland. He is the CEO of Umbrella Well
Being and he's also a psychologist. And we're talking about
how do you navigate those difficult moments where your kids
start to question the way they are built, made, the
way they look, they wait, all that sort of stuff.
How do you have those conversations and make them feel
okay about themselves? Are actually about making it worse? Because
(19:33):
that's my fear when the time comes. Jane, Hello, oh hi.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Thanks for taking my call. Look, I've been listening to
your conversation and getting more and more uptight. I am
a mother of a twenty two year old girl who
has been suffering from anorexia since the age of fifteen,
and I just feel like I want to tell those
other parents out there who have children who do have
(20:01):
eating disorders. It's not a simple thing of being able
to stare them in the right direction through the tough
times around food and around comments. A lot of it is,
A lot of it is from other areas in their life.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Now.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
My daughter's experience was she was bullied terribly at the
age of fifteen at school.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
No one listened to her.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
And she got in a really bad state. Her control
was being able to put her way of getting through
this was being able to control what she ate or
in her case, didn't eat, and it became it was
a big She's still she's twenty two, and she's still
(20:47):
really very much in the realms of anorexia. I have
given up work and I'm supporting her, but I think
what I want to say one comment you made was
that it's not just one comment that someone can say
that can change their way. Actually it is. And my
daughter can tell you the one thing that actually the
(21:09):
one thing that someone said about what she was eating
that brought anorexia on and of course she had lots
of other things going on her life, as have all
the young children these days. And the whole eating disorder
side of things is huge, and you comment that it's
not big. It is massive, but people don't acknowledge it.
(21:30):
In New Zealand it has got one of the highest
rates of anorexia and children as young as six semen eight.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, doggle Yeah, and look, Jane, it's it's really you know,
my heart goes out to your supporting somebody. You know
your daughter was an eating disorder. It must have been
incredibly and it must sounds like it's still incredibly incredibly hard.
And as I think, as you rightly point out, there's
lots of factors that contribute to somebody developing and eating disorder,
(22:01):
and obviously your daughter it was you know, there was
perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back was was
was a comment that somebody made to and that's and
that's devastating. But I guess my point was that for parents,
perhaps the answering a question isn't isn't in and of
(22:22):
itself without those other background factors, is not necessarily going
to lead to that, but you know, and not wanting
at all to underplay how serious eating disorders are. They're
an incredibly serious and and really debilitating and it sometimes
sometimes even deadly disorder, and would never want to minimize that.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, I think I think what I took from were
listening to Google is that if you are a loving parent,
you're not going to with one comment destroy your child,
whereas there will obviously times when there may be one comment,
as Google said that there's a straw that breaks the
camel's back. Is that a better way of putting it?
Do you think?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
I think so, and I think it's it's not necessarily.
I know your way of approaching this tonight is about
the family, and that's really important, but I think perhaps
something that needs to be exaggerated more is the amount
of stress our kids are under these days. And you
may be doing everything right, but there may be something
(23:26):
else out there and they need that control, and you know,
statistics show it. You know that the eating disorders are there. Now,
I also know that it's genetic. It's been proven that
it's genetic, and so you know, there is an element
of guilt in myself not that I have an eating disorder.
(23:48):
But then after listening to your court or your conversation,
I thought I have to ring up because other parents
might be listening and feeling the same kinds built and
I don't think it needs to all be on that.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I think the other thing is probably in terms of
the way we're trying to present this. I think when
you're saying, when we're addressing the ways to handle these
conversations for parents, it's certainly not meant to imply that
if your child does end up having a problem, then
it's the parent's fault. That's certainly not what correct. What
we're about, what we're simply doing is how do we
as parents navigate the conversation as best we can, even
(24:23):
though there may be other factors like peer pressure and
all sorts of other things that create a problem. So
I think it's worth me trying to just hopefully that
makes sense to you that it's not really about saying
you must do this otherwise you're the cause of the problem.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Yeah, No, totally, totally I do get that.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, well, thank you. No, I think that's good. Great
that you've called Jane, so we can sort of thrash
that out of bit further Thank you so much and
all the best for everything you're dealing with.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
There we go, Thanks Jane. I mean it is it's
difficult to have these conversations when you because there always
is this implication that this is what parents should do
and this is how we should handle it. But we're
not saying that if you don't therefore blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think one thing that struck me with Jane's cause too,
was that level of guilt that parents can feel in
these situations when somebody has, you know, a child has
developed and eating problem. Is that often parents can feel
a tremendous amount of guilt. And as Jane, I think,
really since she said, hey, look at it wasn't actually
(25:25):
anything to do with us, there was heaps going on
in our teens' lives, but you know, we don't want
it as parents contribute to an environment that encourages that
sort of difficult eating behavior or over emphasis on way
or image.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, it's funny, it's actually I was just reflecting right
now on really what I think the value of having
ours like this is is that also it gets the
chance for parents to just don't know, people who are
listening as well to head call us like Jane, and
it helps that sense of solidarity with every parent who's listening.
You're not alone with all the emotions you're feeling about
this stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, right, let's take let's go, Let's go to another
call Matthew.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Hello, Yeah, Hi there guys. Now, look, I'm just listening
to the common station and I'm just I'm incredibly proud
of my son. He doesn't have an eating disorder, but
he is dyspractic, dyslexic, and on the autistic spectrum, and
so in that he he obsesses over a lot of things.
(26:22):
But I'm very proud of him and the fact that
when he was at intermediate he got incredibly bullied and
that didn't lead to it, but what that has done
is it's made him very aware of other people's disabilities
and eating disorders. And through his high school years he
(26:42):
had quite a few friends that did have eating disorders
and he really got on board and helped them. He's
into cycling, so he encouraged them to get into cycling
and you know, and that sort of thing. So he's
really supported people along the way. So maybe it's it's
a bit hard to say that that you know, it's
the parents, but it is hopefully some these people with
(27:05):
deceaving kids with it they're eating disorders that they get
now a friend that will guide them and help them
along that doesn't judge them on.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That really important.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And I think the link Jans James call and Matthew's
call really is that influence of peers, isn't it and
around you know how the people around you your age
can have a massive influence as well as parents.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Matt And yeah, it's very sad when when when kids
don't have peers that help them. And I'm just incredibly
proud of my son and he's gone on to do great,
great things and his sporting things and now he's in
and just going on to the guy who was before,
I would say as a parent, yeah, getting kids involved
(27:55):
in sport is great, but if they can get them
involved in the in the organization side of it. Like
when my son was thirty and he decided he wanted
to do downhill mountain biking. When we went along to
the local club and I said, Max, clubs don't run themselves.
So at thirteen he and I joined onto the committee
and he spent twelve years on the committee organizing all
(28:17):
the races from thirteen he would set the courses. That's
also out there on the night before, which has then
gone on and he's now on the mountain White New
Zealand accipt it. Oh yeah, he has made a huge
amount of friends through that, And I would just say
to any parents, yep, get them involved in sports, but
also get involved in organizing it.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well, that's probably also great for her self. Esteemed to
be making that contribution. Thanks Matthew, I really appreciate your cool.
I'm just going to quickly read this text, but them,
we'll take the break. Survivor of disordered eating here, My
most important lesson for parents is to demonstrate body acceptance
for themselves. My mother was of the generation outwardly vocally
hated her body, hating her body, so even if she
(29:00):
said I was beautiful, slim, whatever, when my body changed,
A huge part of my eating disorder roots was my parents'
lack of demonstrating on modeling body acceptance in their own bodies.
If you can model that for your children, that's huge. Also,
create an environment where kids can talk to their parents vulnerably, vulnerabily.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Couldn't have said it better that's such a great text,
and I think that that just sort of goes to
the heart of what we've been trying to say. I think,
isn't it it's around Actually, it's not just what we
say to our kids, it's how we behave around them.
And I think, particularly going back to your situation, Tim,
it's before your kids are an adolescence, when family and
parents still have that big influence, is the time that
(29:39):
you really want to get this right. Because once they
go into adolescence, years takeover and same age kids, you know,
they become the big influence and we lose a lot
of our influence over kids. So trying to get that
right when they're younger is a great thing.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Right, We're going to take a quick moment. We'll be
back in just to Ticlarly. We've got some calls lined
up talking about how do you navigate those difficult decisions
around your children when their bodies are changing and all
that sort of stuff. Eight hundred eighty, ten eighty it's
ten minutes to six News Talks. He'd be Y's Welcome
(30:16):
back to the Parents Squad. I'mton Beverage. My guest is
Google Google Sutherland. He is the CEO of Umbrella, well being,
what's the website addressed for you there?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Google?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The website is Umbrella dot org dot m Z.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Excellent. Right, we're talking about navigating those changes in your teenagers,
and you know, hopefully helping them navigate things without developing
an undue focus or neuroses about their own body image,
et cetera. I'm struggling, so you can see I'm pussy
footing around the worm even trying to describe the problem
Google that I'm you know that it is. It's a tricky,
(30:48):
tricky topic. So let's take some more course. Robin.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
Hello, Hi, I wasn't rung erring. But then Roscot, actually,
as much as I have a we negative story with this,
he's also some quick still positives as well. So I'm
fifty four now. In eight years old, I was put
on a protein diet shape because I was fat, apparently,
and so because compared to my older sister by a
(31:14):
couple of years, she was incredibly slight and I wasn't.
And that taught me from that age that if I
lost weight, I was a good girl, and if I
gain weight, I was a bad girl. And so in
a bit of trauma and some pretty big life things.
And I have done the anorexa and I still suffer,
not so much with the blimia. Lo Like I've worked
(31:36):
incredibly hard to get to where I am today, But
food that's still my go to, if you get what
I mean. And it's really changed, you know that self
how I saw myself. But in that there's two sort
of real positives. Supposed one of them is sometimes this
(31:56):
issue with your children and weight and things. And this
wasn't the case in mind, but some parents and in
especially women have been bullied themselves about weight, and so
they are so incredibly terrified that their children will be
the same that their normal, healthy, chubby little children. But
you know that we all go through those stages. They
(32:17):
can actually cause eating disorders because they're so panicked about
their child gaining weight that they get you know, it's
come from us. And I look after I clean and
garden for people and the family homes. And I saw
the most incredible thing a couple of years ago, so
mom and dad, six year old little boy, eight year
old little girl, and Mama just she talked to me
(32:38):
and she just sort of noticed, especially over the Christmas break,
and that those sort of high sugar, those foods that
you know are our sometimes foods we're really becoming the
big thing, you know, and sneaking in And I think
she saw her putting sugar and water in a glass
and decided, ah, no, this is getting instead of I
suppose berating her. Or they sat down as a family,
(33:01):
Mum and dad, the little boy, the little girl, and said, hey,
we've noticed over the holidays we're not eating a lot
of healthy food, you know, and how about we cut
back on that a bit. It's all right for us
to have that food, but we've been having it all
the time, you know, and so you know, and I
know that's sort of slightly different to how we see ourselves.
(33:23):
But I think, you know, sometimes there could be asue
with what we're eating that has caused us to, you know,
have maybe an unhealthy weight name that can be solved
so easily. But on the other side, not even to
our children, because our children will hear this. In our
general conversation with other human beings, we see someone, oh
(33:47):
my gosh, you've lost so much weight. Oh my gosh,
that's so good, and you look so good. Gosh, that
makes you look good. Oh gosh, that colors so you know,
it's so flattering or my whole world became food and
how I saw myself. And you know, I'm very fortunate
that I've had an incredibly amazing psychologist and I've got
(34:11):
a lot of coping skills. But you yeah, that's a.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Really good thing.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
That's really good good advice, Robin, in terms of the
way to address those stuff. If you you know, how
do we as opposed to, Hey, look you've had too
much sugar, No wonder you've packed it.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
It's a great it's a great, a really great piece
of advice I think, you know from Robin, and you know,
just wanting to acknowledge Robin and I think Jane a
couple of calls before, who had the daughter with ANX,
just the bravery that it takes to bring up the
national radio station and your story out there, and and
what great lessons from both of them. I really love
that that you know from Robin about saying, hey, let's
(34:50):
not let's just talk about healthy eating if we've noticed
that our family eating patterns have slipped a bit, because
let's face it, parents are the one that are buying
the food in the house. So so but I love
the way that She framed that about just having a
conversation about let's let's perhaps change how we eat as
a family so that we're healthier, rather than anything to
do with Wait, all.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Right, we've got time to squeeze in one more call,
but Lee, we'll have to be quick. So when I
got about a minute, but Lee, Hello, Hi, I'm.
Speaker 8 (35:17):
A long time listener. I yeah. I was raised in
the family. My mum was overweighted and she was always
on a diet. He died. That was going back in
the seventies eighties, and my oldest sister I had a
poor body of miss was just anxious, sad, but she wasn't.
(35:40):
And I grew up probably from about eight I had
a very poor body image and would try my mother's diet.
From about the age of nine or ten, I was
bodied at school about being or fat, and so from
seventeen I developed and needing disorder and bolivia and I
(36:02):
never got any help. I was so very shamed about it.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Hi, it's not.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
My family is also very ashamed of me too. But
also I went on to have two children. My daughter
had twelve develop.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Donna Exinger, how did you deal with that?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Then?
Speaker 8 (36:22):
The absolute guilt I felt was horrible. I had many
family members blaming me, which I already blamed myself. I
didn't actually had to put finger at me. It was
just something I didn't have to skill myself. She knows
how to raise my daughter, help me in that way
to have good one hem I done myself.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So did you manage to navigate it in some way
or what?
Speaker 8 (36:47):
We're very lucky at twelve and a half she was.
We went into Tustasia and I wanted to have she
was one of the first patients to stay there given
weeks to get her to a point where she was
eating a healthy way to make.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That sounds.
Speaker 8 (37:10):
Measures and the second year fifteen lots of support. But yeah,
I just want to emphasize that because are very vulnerable
and to be aware of they themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Absolutely, Yeah, Haley, I'm sorry, really sorry. We would have
loved to have talked a bit more about we're up
against the clock. But yeah, Google, if people want, if
people are concerned about their kids well being on this,
what's what steps should they take to just get on
top of it.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Look, probably the easiest thing is actually going and have
a chat to your GP. You know, if you if
you can get an appointment. I think that the GP
is a great place to start, and they may well
be able to if you need to be put in
touch with a psychologist or somebody to help with eating problems,
that they can be the good first step for that.
But they'll at least get the physical side of stuff,
and it was a great place to start as seeing
(38:06):
a GP.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, sorry, we had ran out of time a little
bit there, Laba Hey and Doogle. Thank you so much, mate,
Umbrella dot org dot NZ. If people want to check
out your work, that's one.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Thanks Tim, and just you know, wanted to shout out
again to those particularly those people that rang in with
their own stories of their own families and the bravery
that takes and the great lessons that we picked up
from them and they're the real experts. So that was great.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Thanks mate, and excellent our Thank you so much, and
thank you for the people who called. And we'll be
back in a moment. It's nine minutes to see.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
Being Gone.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
He's welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
And by the way, if you've missed any of the
previous hours you want to go check him out, go
look for the week In Collective where podcasts I suggest iHeartRadio.
But this is the Parents Squad. We want your calls
one ten eighty in text on nine two nine two.
And my guest today is Google Sutherland, who sort of
(00:57):
needs no introduction, but he is. How do we bill you?
Was going to get this right? At Google? You're a
psychologist with the umbrella.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The umbrella group, Umbrella Wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's the one umbrella wellbeing? And how are you keep on?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I'm exhausted today. I've been manning the White Elephants Stall
at the Saint Michael's Church here in Kelbourne, and I've
been blogging off things that nobody really need, all for
a good cause.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Really, the White Elephants what do they call it, the
White Elephant Stall.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I don't know where that name comes from, but it's
selling off all those things that you know, nobody else
really wants, like you know, an electric knife, and a
lower and you know, an old an old chilibin. But
you know it's good fun.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
But all you sold them, so obviously it's not completely
useless because people there's always a buyer, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well, well, people don't know they need these things until
they approach our stool, you see, and then that's when
you see those things and you go, gosh, I'd really
like not only one electric knife, but two electric knives
would be the thing for me.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Did you sell to electric knives today?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I sold two electric knives draws at the same person,
which was quite unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Actually, the electric knife that's very nineteen nineties, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think we've got one in the drawer. So I
think every New Zealand household has probably got one some
hidden away in a drawer somewhere that they haven't usual when.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
They're working, they're quite good and ours, basically we just
burnt it out and threw it away and just bought
a good old fashioned knife.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Away as fun. Isn't an electrical equipment like that? It's
always good fun to use if you can get it going.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Actually, if this wasn't the parents Squad, I'd be immediately
transitioning to eight hundred and eighty ten eighty what is
the most useless appliance you've ever bought or outdated? But
we're not going to do that right now. You always
text me if you want just for fun. Actually, what
we want to talk about today is something that I'm
looking It came out of just a conversation I've had
with other parents, and my wife and I are anticipating
(02:59):
this as well. Is because it's easy to look at
arrenteing when your children are not near that age where
it's really an issue, and you look at it, it's
body image issues and pear pressure and issues that can
lead to serious problems such as anorexia or beliema and
(03:20):
things like that, and body issued. When you are a
parent with where you're several years away from that becoming that,
you always think, oh, we cross that, but you'll need
to come to it. But we're getting to the age
with twelve and thirteen year olds where I've had conversations
with other parents quick where their child has raised a
(03:40):
question about their own body image or they've simply made
an observation like oh, you know, I'm my tummy's getting bigger,
or I'm getting this, and I suddenly realized I had
to chat with my wife about it. How are we
going to handle these moments because you want to acknowledge
reality that your kids get it growing up, that their
you know, their body shapes will change. And yet I'm
(04:05):
I must admit that now it's getting close to that
time where I'm going to have to feel questions. I
want to be prepared for it that I don't say
the wrong thing. Well, of course, it's natural that you're
going to get you know, say, for instance, somebody said
my tummy's getting a bit bigger or something, and I go, well,
that's natural, honey. I'm terrified that I've just said something
I shouldn't say, And I'm just wondering, how do you
navigate those things where, you know, in the world of
(04:27):
Instagram and everyone's perfect in Facebook, I'm nervous about handling
those questions where one of my daughters says that she's
not happy with the way she is.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And I think it's such a common thing that parents
are rightly worried about. You know, We've got this whole
thing at the moment around body image and what we
look like and comparing ourselves to other people. In terms
of how we look. I think my thoughts is that
it's good to sort of dig into those questions. You know,
(05:03):
if somebody says, my tummy's but burgle, this is a
bit changed Steve. If you can spend some time and say, oh,
you know, what's how do you feel about that? They
could be simply making an observation.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Or are they looking for me to say no, it's not.
See instantly, I'm like, as soon as you say, well,
how do you feel about that, They're like, you mean
you agree with me? So I'm petrified of the conversation
full stop.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think I think parents are rightly worried about this area.
I would say too that I think very it would
be a very rare circumstance where appearance says one thing
and it has a massive impact on their children's life
for the rest of their life. Okay, So, and I
think that's true across almost all areas of I can
(05:59):
that I can think of. We will often say occasional
throwaway comments or not a throwaway comments, occasional comments, and
usually one comment is not going to have a huge effect.
I think it's more the ongoing sort of culture or
focus in the family and in the environment that a
child lives and will have a much bigger, longer lasting effect.
(06:21):
But I definitely think it's worth probing a little bit
deeper when when those sorts of questions come up, because
you know, as you as you mentioned before, it's it's
it's a very well, it's entirely normal that people's bodies change,
you know, young people's bodies changes they hit puberty. It's
it's what we expect to happen. And I think don't
(06:43):
be afraid of having the conversation. It might be an
uncomfortable conversation, but don't be afraid of having it and
trying to you know, really, what we're trying to do
is introduce some normality to the conversation. Yes, change is normal,
and and really trying to get across the idea that
you know, it's okay whoever you are, really and it's
okay whatever shape you are, and let's perhaps notocus hugely
(07:06):
on that. But I also think that the conversations, the
rest of the conversations that happen in the family for
the rest of the time are also crucially important. Do
your kids, not you personally, tim but you know, do
kids overhear their parents talking about the parents' body image,
or I'm looking a bit overweight or I'm feeling a
(07:27):
bit weight, or are they being exposed to older siblings
or parents who are constantly dieting, And that's possibly going
to have much more of a lasting impact on a
child's perception of themselves and their body than a single
question or a single answer from a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You've just reminded me because last night one of my
daughters is I give them a hug good night before
I get a bit before they go to sleep, sort
of thing. She said to me. She did, Dad, you're
looking a lot slimmer right now. And because I was
like oh, and I wasn't sure how overjoyed I should
sound like, oh hooray, I sort of was like, oh
(08:06):
do I, I said, I don't know why that would be.
I said, oh, well, I'm you know, I'm trying not
to have so much chocolate.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
It's interesting, isn't it. How quickly we sort of even
implicitly kind of say, you know, link the fact that
somebody's called a slim or we've lost weight to that
being a good thing, or that we feel a bit
fat to that being a bad thing. And wouldn't it
be great if we could just sort of extract those
two from each other, so you know your body shape
(08:35):
and west doesn't have to reflect. It doesn't have to
be a good thing or a bad thing. It's just
a thing, really, and trying to take away the value
judgments from that, I think is really really helpful, if
that's possible.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I try to reflect on when I was growing up.
I mean, look, I'm family and boys, I'm not sure
if we're worried about how we I'm sure we did
in fact, but I don't. Obviously, my mum and my
dad never seem to ever ever talk about you losing
weight or anything. I think mum might have done weight
watches at one stage. We never gave it a second thought,
(09:09):
but we never ever heard them angsting if that's a
word about and I think that's probably quite important, isn't it.
If mum's constantly complaining about the way she looks and
is constantly on this diet or that diet because she's
not happy, then is that something that's going to rub
off on kids in a way.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I think that's going to be much more likely than
an occasional answer to a question, yes, absolutely. Look, I
think things have changed too since perhaps our time. I
think when you know, when we're younger, were growing up
in teens, especially for boys, there was much less emphasis
on body image and looks for boys now and that
(09:49):
has changed in the last ten or fifteen so years.
There has been a much bigger increase around you know,
body image or young men and for boys as well. Unfortunately,
it's always been there for women, and you know, society
is always judge women by how they look. But you're right,
(10:09):
it's those conversations if somebody in the family doesn't matter
if it's male or female, but if somebody and the
family is constantly dieting and focusing on weight and how
they look, and oh gosh, it's a great thing. You know,
I can celebrate now I've lost weight. That you think
about the message that that is sending your kids, especially
as they grow up and they hit puberty, when their
(10:31):
bodies will definitely change and they will at times be
uncomfortable with their bodies. You know that I think just
normalizing it and that that change is fine, it's normal,
and trying to take away this idea that actually being
slim is really good. And I can hear the counterargument
already people will be saying, yeah, but you know, we
(10:52):
don't want them to being obese and overweight, and and
of course we don't. But you know that we're not
talking about going to that extreme either. We're just talking about, Hey,
think about the culture and the way that you think
about food and dieting in your family. Just generally, it's
(11:12):
probably a good time to stop and think, as kids
are coming into teenage years about how do we talk
about weight image in our house.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Actually, intuitively, it absolutely makes sense that this is a
problem that's going to start affecting boys as well. Just
all you needed. The reason I'm moral that sort of
rings a bell with me is I was looking at
some old retro ads as to what a well muscled
man was in the seventies and eighties, and by today's standards,
(11:40):
they were pretty dweeby, you know, Yeah, a hint of
a six pack that was, you know, you were the
new Peter Stuyvesant guy or whatever it was advertising cigarettes.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that has been a huge change,
and certainly rates of eating disorders amongst males have increased
over the past ten to fifteen years. Remembering too, though,
it is worth remembering that the eating disorders are still
although they're very severe when you have them, they're still
(12:10):
relatively rare. They're not there's not a huge proportion of
the population has an eating disorder. Okay, but we don't
want to push nor do you want to say things
that are going to push kids towards that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay, well, look, we're going to take your calls on
this too. How do you navigate those years when your
kids are starting to be more conscious of their own
body image and having conversations with them where well, at
the very least you don't contribute to the problem, and
maybe you help your kids navigate that stuff without them
ending up with some sort of body what is it, dysmorphia,
all that sort of stuff and eating disorders. Let's take
(12:43):
some calls on that because we're keen to know if
you've actually managed to successfully navigate those waters as well. Jeff,
get how on a second, let me just click that
button again several weeks Jeff, Hello.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Hello button. I raise two boys all on my own. Okay. Now,
from the time they started growing up, I didn't give
them a chance too much chance to get bored or
sit down there and feel sorry for themselves or what
(13:16):
I look like or what I don't look like. Now,
when as the boys were getting a bit older, I
turned around and I got them into organizations. Now, both
my boys, I got them into soccer now, and it
was they had soccer on a on a Saturday morning,
(13:38):
and I was also coaching soccer in towern as well. Now,
So they were up on the Saturday morning and away
we went. And when they came home it was shower
and get changed and all that. But they had a
great day. They seemed to really enjoy it. So in
(14:00):
the summertime, even after work, but they were looking at
a bit down and out. I'd say to them, come on,
let's go. We're down the beach. Let's go for.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Uswim You just you just get them busy and active.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah. I just kept them busy and and I just
found that this was working. They were good thinkers. I
used to say them if they were rude to somebody,
I'd say, hey, knock it off. You don't talk to
people like that, okay, or you're not going to get
anywhere in life. Now. As the boys got a little
(14:39):
bit older and older, my older son joined cubs and
my other other son was still played. My younger one
still played soccer now. So when Adam got into the
cubs and on all that sort of the keys Cubs
and goodness knows what out and going out the next scene,
(15:04):
I could see the differ someone how was great And
so I've got I just kept the boys busy, you know,
like if the lawns needed mind to cut down one
of those guys.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Money. So I mean, guess keeping your busy is not
busy active in and you know makes sense, doesn't it? Injurity.
I'm not sure if Jeff's kids would have grown up
with social media. I'm guessing possibly not. That might be
the one complicating flying the ointment.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
There there is some wisdom I think of what Jeff
was saying around, you know, especially at teens. I'm a
really big fan of keeping teens, you know, getting them
involved and active and activities and groups and organizations where
that will take up their time and get them interested
in things. I often think for teenagers, what is it,
(15:58):
you know, idle hands of the devil's work for all
sorts of all sorts of things, but you know, keeping
them in bold to make.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
The devil's work. That's a biblical But I mean there
is something to that with kids. I guess, well, I mean,
my girls are very busy and we haven't had those
conversations yet. I'm sort of getting ahead of the game.
But I guess that's not necessarily the total antidote to it.
But certainly kids feeling busy and just being active all
(16:31):
the time is always going to be good for just
their general sense of well being. Does that help stave
off those sort of naval gazing moments of dissatisfaction?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Well, there's less time to do it, perhaps, as Jeff
was implying, but recognizing that adolescents of the time, when
you do, you do naturally become much more focused on
what your peers think and what others think. But being
involved with other teens are who are doing pro social,
positive things is a really good thing. Did you have.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Any you look back when you were a teenager? Did
you have any things that you would dissatisfy with yourself about?
Because I can't remember now. I'm sure. I'm sure there
are a few things, but.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I can. I can remember spending long time looking
in the mirror at my skin worrying about acne. Oh
that's and I can remember that, and and that's not
an unusual thing for an adolescents. A lot of that
sort of time looking at yourself in the mirror, comparing yourself.
(17:30):
You're trying to imagine what you should you really want
to look like, And of course you forget that. You'll
you get very very very very familiar with your face
and hear and look, and much more familiar than anybody else.
So you notice a tiny here out of place that
nobody else really looks at. But that isn't. That isn't.
That's a natural sort of thing in adolescence, and there
(17:51):
is that focus on ourselves and comparing us to our
peer group. So the more that we can do to
reduce that, the better, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Gosh, actually, the peer group was probably the problem. When
I was growing up, one boy had a bit of
problem with acting on us back and people said that
we used to get tea springing a back that looked
like a pizza. I forgot. People are crawl.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Twitch teenagers have some tear I can recalling people pizza face.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It was just I mean, I'm made it laughing because
here we are, as grown ups looking back on how
terribly we behaved.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
No, it's slightly embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Isn't it anyway. We'll be back in just a moment, though.
How do you navigate those moments where you where you
are worried that your teenagers? I think the question is
probably about losing perspective about natural changes in their bodies
and all that sort of stuff. How do you navigate
that so that they can just get through it in
a way that we all got through it hopefully. O
eight hundred eighty twenty five past five. We'll be back
(18:48):
with Jane and Matthew in just a moment, and welcome back.
(19:11):
This is the Parents Squad. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest
is Google Sutherland. He is the CEO of Umbrella Well
Being and he's also a psychologist. And we're talking about
how do you navigate those difficult moments where your kids
start to question the way they are built, made, the
way they look, they wait, all that sort of stuff.
How do you have those conversations and make them feel
okay about themselves? Are actually about making it worse? Because
(19:33):
that's my fear when the time comes. Jane, Hello, oh hi.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Thanks for taking my call. Look, I've been listening to
your conversation and getting more and more uptight. I am
a mother of a twenty two year old girl who
has been suffering from anorexia since the age of fifteen,
and I just feel like I want to tell those
other parents out there who have children who do have
(20:01):
eating disorders. It's not a simple thing of being able
to stare them in the right direction through the tough
times around food and around comments. A lot of it is,
A lot of it is from other areas in their life.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Now.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
My daughter's experience was she was bullied terribly at the
age of fifteen at school.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
No one listened to her.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
And she got in a really bad state. Her control
was being able to put her way of getting through
this was being able to control what she ate or
in her case, didn't eat, and it became it was
a big She's still she's twenty two, and she's still
(20:47):
really very much in the realms of anorexia. I have
given up work and I'm supporting her, but I think
what I want to say one comment you made was
that it's not just one comment that someone can say
that can change their way. Actually it is. And my
daughter can tell you the one thing that actually the
(21:09):
one thing that someone said about what she was eating
that brought anorexia on and of course she had lots
of other things going on her life, as have all
the young children these days. And the whole eating disorder
side of things is huge, and you comment that it's
not big. It is massive, but people don't acknowledge it.
(21:30):
In New Zealand it has got one of the highest
rates of anorexia and children as young as six semen eight.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, doggle Yeah, and look, Jane, it's it's really you know,
my heart goes out to your supporting somebody. You know
your daughter was an eating disorder. It must have been
incredibly and it must sounds like it's still incredibly incredibly hard.
And as I think, as you rightly point out, there's
lots of factors that contribute to somebody developing and eating disorder,
(22:01):
and obviously your daughter it was you know, there was
perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back was was
was a comment that somebody made to and that's and
that's devastating. But I guess my point was that for parents,
perhaps the answering a question isn't isn't in and of
(22:22):
itself without those other background factors, is not necessarily going
to lead to that, but you know, and not wanting
at all to underplay how serious eating disorders are. They're
an incredibly serious and and really debilitating and it sometimes
sometimes even deadly disorder, and would never want to minimize that.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, I think I think what I took from were
listening to Google is that if you are a loving parent,
you're not going to with one comment destroy your child,
whereas there will obviously times when there may be one comment,
as Google said that there's a straw that breaks the
camel's back. Is that a better way of putting it?
Do you think?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
I think so, and I think it's it's not necessarily.
I know your way of approaching this tonight is about
the family, and that's really important, but I think perhaps
something that needs to be exaggerated more is the amount
of stress our kids are under these days. And you
may be doing everything right, but there may be something
(23:26):
else out there and they need that control, and you know,
statistics show it. You know that the eating disorders are there. Now,
I also know that it's genetic. It's been proven that
it's genetic, and so you know, there is an element
of guilt in myself not that I have an eating disorder.
(23:48):
But then after listening to your court or your conversation,
I thought I have to ring up because other parents
might be listening and feeling the same kinds built and
I don't think it needs to all be on that.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I think the other thing is probably in terms of
the way we're trying to present this. I think when
you're saying, when we're addressing the ways to handle these
conversations for parents, it's certainly not meant to imply that
if your child does end up having a problem, then
it's the parent's fault. That's certainly not what correct. What
we're about, what we're simply doing is how do we
as parents navigate the conversation as best we can, even
(24:23):
though there may be other factors like peer pressure and
all sorts of other things that create a problem. So
I think it's worth me trying to just hopefully that
makes sense to you that it's not really about saying
you must do this otherwise you're the cause of the problem.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Yeah, No, totally, totally I do get that.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, well, thank you. No, I think that's good. Great
that you've called Jane, so we can sort of thrash
that out of bit further Thank you so much and
all the best for everything you're dealing with.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
There we go, Thanks Jane. I mean it is it's
difficult to have these conversations when you because there always
is this implication that this is what parents should do
and this is how we should handle it. But we're
not saying that if you don't therefore blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think one thing that struck me with Jane's cause too,
was that level of guilt that parents can feel in
these situations when somebody has, you know, a child has
developed and eating problem. Is that often parents can feel
a tremendous amount of guilt. And as Jane, I think,
really since she said, hey, look at it wasn't actually
(25:25):
anything to do with us, there was heaps going on
in our teens' lives, but you know, we don't want
it as parents contribute to an environment that encourages that
sort of difficult eating behavior or over emphasis on way
or image.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, it's funny, it's actually I was just reflecting right
now on really what I think the value of having
ours like this is is that also it gets the
chance for parents to just don't know, people who are
listening as well to head call us like Jane, and
it helps that sense of solidarity with every parent who's listening.
You're not alone with all the emotions you're feeling about
this stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, right, let's take let's go, Let's go to another
call Matthew.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Hello, Yeah, Hi there guys. Now, look, I'm just listening
to the common station and I'm just I'm incredibly proud
of my son. He doesn't have an eating disorder, but
he is dyspractic, dyslexic, and on the autistic spectrum, and
so in that he he obsesses over a lot of things.
(26:22):
But I'm very proud of him and the fact that
when he was at intermediate he got incredibly bullied and
that didn't lead to it, but what that has done
is it's made him very aware of other people's disabilities
and eating disorders. And through his high school years he
(26:42):
had quite a few friends that did have eating disorders
and he really got on board and helped them. He's
into cycling, so he encouraged them to get into cycling
and you know, and that sort of thing. So he's
really supported people along the way. So maybe it's it's
a bit hard to say that that you know, it's
the parents, but it is hopefully some these people with
(27:05):
deceaving kids with it they're eating disorders that they get
now a friend that will guide them and help them
along that doesn't judge them on.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That really important.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And I think the link Jans James call and Matthew's
call really is that influence of peers, isn't it and
around you know how the people around you your age
can have a massive influence as well as parents.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Matt And yeah, it's very sad when when when kids
don't have peers that help them. And I'm just incredibly
proud of my son and he's gone on to do great,
great things and his sporting things and now he's in
and just going on to the guy who was before,
I would say as a parent, yeah, getting kids involved
(27:55):
in sport is great, but if they can get them
involved in the in the organization side of it. Like
when my son was thirty and he decided he wanted
to do downhill mountain biking. When we went along to
the local club and I said, Max, clubs don't run themselves.
So at thirteen he and I joined onto the committee
and he spent twelve years on the committee organizing all
(28:17):
the races from thirteen he would set the courses. That's
also out there on the night before, which has then
gone on and he's now on the mountain White New
Zealand accipt it. Oh yeah, he has made a huge
amount of friends through that, And I would just say
to any parents, yep, get them involved in sports, but
also get involved in organizing it.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well, that's probably also great for her self. Esteemed to
be making that contribution. Thanks Matthew, I really appreciate your cool.
I'm just going to quickly read this text, but them,
we'll take the break. Survivor of disordered eating here, My
most important lesson for parents is to demonstrate body acceptance
for themselves. My mother was of the generation outwardly vocally
hated her body, hating her body, so even if she
(29:00):
said I was beautiful, slim, whatever, when my body changed,
A huge part of my eating disorder roots was my parents'
lack of demonstrating on modeling body acceptance in their own bodies.
If you can model that for your children, that's huge. Also,
create an environment where kids can talk to their parents vulnerably, vulnerabily.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Couldn't have said it better that's such a great text,
and I think that that just sort of goes to
the heart of what we've been trying to say. I think,
isn't it it's around Actually, it's not just what we
say to our kids, it's how we behave around them.
And I think, particularly going back to your situation, Tim,
it's before your kids are an adolescence, when family and
parents still have that big influence, is the time that
(29:39):
you really want to get this right. Because once they
go into adolescence, years takeover and same age kids, you know,
they become the big influence and we lose a lot
of our influence over kids. So trying to get that
right when they're younger is a great thing.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Right, We're going to take a quick moment. We'll be
back in just to Ticlarly. We've got some calls lined
up talking about how do you navigate those difficult decisions
around your children when their bodies are changing and all
that sort of stuff. Eight hundred eighty, ten eighty it's
ten minutes to six News Talks. He'd be Y's Welcome
(30:16):
back to the Parents Squad. I'mton Beverage. My guest is
Google Google Sutherland. He is the CEO of Umbrella, well being,
what's the website addressed for you there?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Google?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The website is Umbrella dot org dot m Z.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Excellent. Right, we're talking about navigating those changes in your teenagers,
and you know, hopefully helping them navigate things without developing
an undue focus or neuroses about their own body image,
et cetera. I'm struggling, so you can see I'm pussy
footing around the worm even trying to describe the problem
Google that I'm you know that it is. It's a tricky,
(30:48):
tricky topic. So let's take some more course. Robin.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
Hello, Hi, I wasn't rung erring. But then Roscot, actually,
as much as I have a we negative story with this,
he's also some quick still positives as well. So I'm
fifty four now. In eight years old, I was put
on a protein diet shape because I was fat, apparently,
and so because compared to my older sister by a
(31:14):
couple of years, she was incredibly slight and I wasn't.
And that taught me from that age that if I
lost weight, I was a good girl, and if I
gain weight, I was a bad girl. And so in
a bit of trauma and some pretty big life things.
And I have done the anorexa and I still suffer,
not so much with the blimia. Lo Like I've worked
(31:36):
incredibly hard to get to where I am today, But
food that's still my go to, if you get what
I mean. And it's really changed, you know that self
how I saw myself. But in that there's two sort
of real positives. Supposed one of them is sometimes this
(31:56):
issue with your children and weight and things. And this
wasn't the case in mind, but some parents and in
especially women have been bullied themselves about weight, and so
they are so incredibly terrified that their children will be
the same that their normal, healthy, chubby little children. But
you know that we all go through those stages. They
(32:17):
can actually cause eating disorders because they're so panicked about
their child gaining weight that they get you know, it's
come from us. And I look after I clean and
garden for people and the family homes. And I saw
the most incredible thing a couple of years ago, so
mom and dad, six year old little boy, eight year
old little girl, and Mama just she talked to me
(32:38):
and she just sort of noticed, especially over the Christmas break,
and that those sort of high sugar, those foods that
you know are our sometimes foods we're really becoming the
big thing, you know, and sneaking in And I think
she saw her putting sugar and water in a glass
and decided, ah, no, this is getting instead of I
suppose berating her. Or they sat down as a family,
(33:01):
Mum and dad, the little boy, the little girl, and said, hey,
we've noticed over the holidays we're not eating a lot
of healthy food, you know, and how about we cut
back on that a bit. It's all right for us
to have that food, but we've been having it all
the time, you know, and so you know, and I
know that's sort of slightly different to how we see ourselves.
(33:23):
But I think, you know, sometimes there could be asue
with what we're eating that has caused us to, you know,
have maybe an unhealthy weight name that can be solved
so easily. But on the other side, not even to
our children, because our children will hear this. In our
general conversation with other human beings, we see someone, oh
(33:47):
my gosh, you've lost so much weight. Oh my gosh,
that's so good, and you look so good. Gosh, that
makes you look good. Oh gosh, that colors so you know,
it's so flattering or my whole world became food and
how I saw myself. And you know, I'm very fortunate
that I've had an incredibly amazing psychologist and I've got
(34:11):
a lot of coping skills. But you yeah, that's a.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Really good thing.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
That's really good good advice, Robin, in terms of the
way to address those stuff. If you you know, how
do we as opposed to, Hey, look you've had too
much sugar, No wonder you've packed it.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
It's a great it's a great, a really great piece
of advice I think, you know from Robin, and you know,
just wanting to acknowledge Robin and I think Jane a
couple of calls before, who had the daughter with ANX,
just the bravery that it takes to bring up the
national radio station and your story out there, and and
what great lessons from both of them. I really love
that that you know from Robin about saying, hey, let's
(34:50):
not let's just talk about healthy eating if we've noticed
that our family eating patterns have slipped a bit, because
let's face it, parents are the one that are buying
the food in the house. So so but I love
the way that She framed that about just having a
conversation about let's let's perhaps change how we eat as
a family so that we're healthier, rather than anything to
do with Wait, all.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Right, we've got time to squeeze in one more call,
but Lee, we'll have to be quick. So when I
got about a minute, but Lee, Hello, Hi, I'm.
Speaker 8 (35:17):
A long time listener. I yeah. I was raised in
the family. My mum was overweighted and she was always
on a diet. He died. That was going back in
the seventies eighties, and my oldest sister I had a
poor body of miss was just anxious, sad, but she wasn't.
(35:40):
And I grew up probably from about eight I had
a very poor body image and would try my mother's diet.
From about the age of nine or ten, I was
bodied at school about being or fat, and so from
seventeen I developed and needing disorder and bolivia and I
(36:02):
never got any help. I was so very shamed about it.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Hi, it's not.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
My family is also very ashamed of me too. But
also I went on to have two children. My daughter
had twelve develop.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Donna Exinger, how did you deal with that?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Then?
Speaker 8 (36:22):
The absolute guilt I felt was horrible. I had many
family members blaming me, which I already blamed myself. I
didn't actually had to put finger at me. It was
just something I didn't have to skill myself. She knows
how to raise my daughter, help me in that way
to have good one hem I done myself.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So did you manage to navigate it in some way
or what?
Speaker 8 (36:47):
We're very lucky at twelve and a half she was.
We went into Tustasia and I wanted to have she
was one of the first patients to stay there given
weeks to get her to a point where she was
eating a healthy way to make.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That sounds.
Speaker 8 (37:10):
Measures and the second year fifteen lots of support. But yeah,
I just want to emphasize that because are very vulnerable
and to be aware of they themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Absolutely, Yeah, Haley, I'm sorry, really sorry. We would have
loved to have talked a bit more about we're up
against the clock. But yeah, Google, if people want, if
people are concerned about their kids well being on this,
what's what steps should they take to just get on
top of it.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Look, probably the easiest thing is actually going and have
a chat to your GP. You know, if you if
you can get an appointment. I think that the GP
is a great place to start, and they may well
be able to if you need to be put in
touch with a psychologist or somebody to help with eating problems,
that they can be the good first step for that.
But they'll at least get the physical side of stuff,
and it was a great place to start as seeing
(38:06):
a GP.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, sorry, we had ran out of time a little
bit there, Laba Hey and Doogle. Thank you so much, mate,
Umbrella dot org dot NZ. If people want to check
out your work, that's one.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Thanks Tim, and just you know, wanted to shout out
again to those particularly those people that rang in with
their own stories of their own families and the bravery
that takes and the great lessons that we picked up
from them and they're the real experts. So that was great.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Thanks mate, and excellent our Thank you so much, and
thank you for the people who called. And we'll be
back in a moment. It's nine minutes to see.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
This is Gavin Newsom
I’m Gavin Newsom. And, it’s time to have a conversation. It’s time to have honest discussions with people that agree AND disagree with us. It's time to answer the hard questions and be open to criticism, and debate without demeaning or dehumanizing one other. I will be doing just that on my new podcast – inviting people on who I deeply disagree with to talk about the most pressing issues of the day and inviting listeners from around the country to join the conversation. THIS is Gavin Newsom.