August 31, 2024 • 34 mins
A British mum is facing backlash after allowing her 15 year old son to travel Europe with his 16 year old friend.
The mum acknowledged the danger in this, but said, "in this increasingly risk-averse world it's vital that we find any ways we can to give our children the confidence that only comes from trusting them."
So where do you draw the line? How can you let your children go without giving too much freedom? Dr Dougal Sutherland joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim
Beverage and this is the Parents Squad. What your call O?
E one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text nine
two nine too. If you miss him in have any
of our previous hours, go to where you podcast is.
Look for the Weekend Collective. iHeartRadio. Great place to start
and finish, to be honest. Right now it's time for
the as I mentioned, time for the Parents Squad. My
(00:32):
guest is he's a psychologist at Victoria University and his
name is Google Sutherland. Google. Gooday, how are you going?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Good day, Tim?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How are you not too bad? You've got a of
course you're from your company? Is all the organization work
for by your backdrop is subtly suggested to me. Of
course Umbreller. It's Umbreller dot org dot z.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
That's right, Yes, yeah, you're I am. I I do
do a bit of teaching at VIC as well, so
you're not wrong. But my day, Joe, I was Umbrella
well being.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and have you been what's news? What's wrong?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I've been exhausted actually to be honest, We've been frantically
busy at work and I got to I hit a
wall on Thursday or Friday and just couldn't do much
and so stopped and had a sleep and all was
right after that.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, well, I think I have seen you pop up
a few a little bit. You might have been on
mic show. I think I was, yeah, yeah, yeah, was
that In respect of.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
That, there was about people taking cell phone footage of
those that big accident on the OK.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That was horrendous. That's terrible, just horrendous. Hey, now, look
the topic we've got to kick off with today as
I don't want it to come across as as to
accuse a tree in terms of the way that we've
we've put it together. But you know, the poor n
(01:56):
c A pass rates, I've just raised the question and
so I'm just going to ask it bluntly. Is there
something to do to do as well with parents and
the lack of engagement with their kids' education. And a
nice way to put it was could parents be more involved?
Because the results that we've seen in terms of the
(02:17):
pass rate for n CEA, they're not flash and you've
got to start asking yourself, what has what's caused it,
but also what can help with it? Is there something
to be said for we have parents who are you know,
they're all too busy themselves, and not many parents have
the time that they might have had to keep an
(02:39):
eye on their kids homework. Kids are on their devices.
Who knows if they're doing their homework or they're playing
a game and all that sort of stuff. So yeah,
there we go. There's the broad question is it all
the parents fault?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
We got there eventually then boiled it down.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Is it really the parents? School?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's funny, isn't it. I mean, it's it's often kids said.
My kids particularly didn't have homework at primary school. When
they get to high school it was a bit of
a wake up call and and yeah, hard for them.
I think, you know, if you struggle a bit with school,
motivation to actually do stuff after, you know, homework and
(03:18):
stuff is pretty challenging, let alone the content.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I mean, I could help my.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Primary school age children with their stuff, but by the
time they got to sort of year ten and eleven,
I was I was subbing, tapping up by that stage,
was like, I've got no idea what you're doing. But
I think there's I think there is certainly something about here.
It's being interested and involved and open and the portal
of their kids working. They're not going to be able
to do it for them, but setting up that environment
(03:45):
if they can.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, do you think there's anything more to it than that?
Really is? I mean, what was your reaction to the
nca pass rates in terms of what's behind it? Because
it's almost like there's a generation that are going, well, now,
you know, ten years ago we're fine, and all of
a sudden we're failing.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I know, I found there a Yeah, we used to
be sort of hot, you know, top in the world
or closer top of the world, didn't we and it's
just fallen down. Gosh, if we could unpick that one,
it would be amazing. Wouldn't we stand for We could
stand for Parliament?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think, well, it'd be a great podcast, doesn't it.
Wouldn't it be amazing to say, listen Tim Beverbridge with
Google Sullivan or should I say Google Solent? Sorry Google Sutherland. Sorry,
I've just had no Sullivan, so I'm still stuck in
Google Sutherland solves the question around NCAA fail rates. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we'd be rock and rolling, wouldn't well.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
It was a new online test, wasn't it that they
were talking about. So it's a new it's it's that
new literacy component. Isn't it that you need to and
it's brand new. It's It's always interesting, isn't it when
they introduce a new test and people don't fail.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Sorry, they do fail?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It you go now? Is that the test?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Is it just the test too hard? Perhaps maybe they
need to tweak the test. Maybe it's because I wonder
too how much we're still noticing the knock on effects
of COVID lockdown and kids disengaging from school. That was
tricky time for my daughter. I remember it was very
hard to be engaged for that long during those lockdown periods.
(05:12):
And you know, education builds sort of brick on brick
on brick, you know, and if you miss some key
features early on, it's hard to catch those back up
as you go, as you get into later life.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think the thing that stood out for me was,
I guess it's worrying teachers. So there's low pass rates
and new online Okay, so that online yeah, I mean
does tend to raise that question. Is it because there's
a generation of kids who are sort of slipping because
of the COVID thing and even that I've seen, or
is it the other thing that's as new as the tests?
(05:43):
I guess. But if it's worrying such secondary teachers, I mean,
I guess maybe the broader question is and we want
your calls on it as well. At one hundred and
eighty ten eighty, what do you do to help your
kids learn? Because I think as a parent, look, I
don't have a history of parenting years ago. I'm just
(06:04):
you know, we're all new to the game, and I'm
conscious of how easy it is to not quite keep
tabs on what your kids are up to with their
homework and weather they're on top of things. And I'm
married to a teacher who will give me the reminder
have you checked with my daughter? How one of my daughters?
Have you checked that they're onto their homework? And I'll
(06:25):
be like, oh, I forgot.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yes, yes, yes, no, I agree. I think there's a place, really,
isn't there for parents getting those expectations and hey, we
you know this is and at least inquiring and showing
they're curious and interested if you've got time. You know,
some parents, of course, are busy working two jobs and
they're not home and can't can't keep that eye on
(06:47):
the kids that regularly, and that's tough. But certainly sitting
that expectation and that some sort of environment that they
can work in, and that might be tough for some people.
But is there a table that you can work at
in your house that you know it can be quiet
and distraction free for a period.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, Actually, that's an interesting question, just about a rule,
about the rules that you have with where you can
do the homework, because yeah, in the in the old days,
you'd go off to your room because all you had
was your pen, your books, and your and your bit
of paper, whereas now it's like, well, hang on a minute,
what you've got your laptop? No, you're out in the
lounge here where I can see what you're doing. What
(07:27):
what what apprasion does you have with your kids too?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, we're I don't I don't think they wanted to
do homework when they did it in their rooms anyway,
they tended to be out sending. My daughter is much
better at coming out and working in the in the kitchen,
the dining room.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Part of a lot, being part of the sort of vibe.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
So.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Look, I've got to be honest too, though, I mean
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I did well at school, but I.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Did not do very much work at school, you know, study.
I can remember my pitifull attempts, attempts to study for
the school sirt and whatever else we had bursary back
in the day, And when I compare them to what
I did at Uni, it was like, man, I just
kind of sat on my bed and read my notes
and it was pretty pitiful stuff when I think back.
So even though I was dedicated and committed in my
(08:16):
parents were you know, I had the expectation, the actual
quality of what I did was pretty rubbish. I've got
to be honest. It wasn't until I got to Union
when gee, I've got to do this sort of stuff myself.
I've really got to knuckle down, and I learned a
few weather techniques that helped me a lot. But the
very least wanting parents, you know, have it if they
can have they got a space. It's a bit like
working from home, right for an adult working from home,
(08:38):
you have a nice I have a space that you
can work from home and then you can pack away again.
Have you got the same at least for your kids.
Is that possible in your household? Won't be possible for everybody.
Is there a desk space available?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Is it quiet?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
And you just sort of gently monitor in the background
that they're not on YouTube again, And then they'll say, oh, no,
it's for it's for school. I'm researching stuff. It's like, oh,
it's okay, don it's much more complicated. I think that's
certainly than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I guess it's funny. Actually, the thing is, what
is that? I'm just trying to think about our own
experiences learning. And look, I probably didn't do much work
at all. I probably got by on my wits a
little bit because I could, But I mean I wasn't
failing in terms of the basics and stuff. What do
we know anything else about the course of Why there's
(09:27):
such a low sort of past rated.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
No, some of it is that battle, isn't it between
the how you teach literacy? And that's been that huge
battle going on at the moment. Is it the is
it I forget the terms of the the context learning?
Or is it sort of wrote it's not rote learning
but learning? And I know that there's been some quite
(09:54):
quite big debates about the impact of that and how
much of an impact that has. I think we need
to do something too as a society to make things
like maths actually more appealing. Like maths is not appealing
and people just don't like to do it, and even
maths teachers I've spoken to don't like doing maths a
lot of the time. Yeah, it is, and it's all
(10:16):
we do it because we kind of have to. And
it's like, no, no, we should be enthused about. We
should be having teachers who are enthused about these sorts
of things. And we want to enthuse our kids too
if we can. We want to get our kids to
be enthusiastic about learning and see it as a challenge
in something to be enjoyed. I know that, I know
it's not going to be true for every child or
every family, but possible that would be, you know, I
(10:37):
think we really want to make it for something that
they see that and to get something good out of
It's hard if if you're struggling and failing all the time, why,
you know, to find the motivation.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It actually be interesting to see with you know, obviously
Erica Stanford's got the bit between the teeth on education
where it's interesting to see what affects the work that
she's to get done. We'll make a difference with because
maybe is it. Do you think it's a possibility that
there's just as simple that we've been teaching it wrong
the last few years and it's finally caught up with us.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Yeah, look, I think that's an argument. I'm not familiar
enough with the pros and cons of ect dide. But
the other thing I think about education is that it
takes so long to be to come through for it
to see an effect, So you you know it's going
to be you know, ten years down the track that
we see the impact of this. So it's a long
(11:27):
game unfortunately. So it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I guess the short thing is there is a role
for parents to play, isn't there I guess, And trying
to have a dialogue with your kids about what they're doing,
what they're struggling.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
With, absolutely, and setting it up, setting it up when
they're young so that they get into those patterns as
much as possible, even if they're just doing a little
bit just the idea that and maybe teaching them a
little bit how to study if that's possible. It's a
bit of a mystery. I think when you're a teenager
and you try to figure out how to study. I've
been lucky enough to be a psychologist, so I can
(11:58):
teach my daughter some tips. But everybody isn't that Not
everybody is in that position.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, no, not quite. But we want to have your
calls on this. I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
I think a nicer way to ask the question is
what role comparents play in helping their kids do better
at school? Or do you just leave it all up
to the teachers, because I I'm trying to think how
much my parents did with me actually, But anyway, let's
take some calls on this. I eight hundred eighty ten
eighty text nine nine two. I have we've got time
(12:24):
before the end of this segment as well. I did
love that story about Kirsty Alsop, who's the host of
one of those property shows, who let her fifteen year
old travel across Europe with a friend. And it might
seem open and shut is to whether that's a good
or a bad way of parenting. But it does raise
(12:44):
the question as to indepense with your kids. But let's
take some calls on the on just our lack of
achievement right now and what role parents can play Krishna, gooday, oh,
how was the good good things?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
You know, oh, very good question. I think that made
me think a little bit. When the kids really small,
I think if the focus was on asking every day
as to what the homework is, and usually the teacher
would make them write that in the book, and so
we'd asked the question, they'll show it to us. And
over time, you know, we just we Our our job
(13:21):
was to hold them accountable for us to speak some
some topics we could help them with some they were
doing their own research and that was all cool. As
they got older, I think the question changed from our perspective.
We were more asking about what subjects they're like and
what they don't like, and that way we said do
you want to have tutors and or do you want
(13:43):
you know, the older brother to help you. So effectively
we were saying it's okay, do not know. But there
are other strategies of dealing with it. You can go
onto YouTube, you can you can go to the library.
You can ask the older brother. You can ask But
I'm an engineer, my wife's a teacher and she's had
double double degree too. So even if we can't find
the answer, no we don't know, the answer'll find it
(14:05):
for you, which meant which meant that they were not
scared of not knowing and not coming across as somebody
who doesn't know anything in that area. And and because
we didn't know either, because we were we were not
saying we know everything you know, and and YouTube was
a good source and internet was a good source. In fact,
I think there was some assignments from the teachers who said,
(14:26):
your job is to find the answer for this through
YouTube and the internet. So they were making people go
through the web and also making their own judgment onto
as to whether the stuff that they had just heard
or seen was right, because as you know, a lot
a lot of the stuff on there is questionable. And yeah,
(14:51):
I mean so, so I think that helped us. And
we were not we were not making them sit on
the table with us, but we were just having that discussion.
And it won't even be daily as they got older.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I think, Christian, see what you're hitting on is sort
of what I was getting at. Is like when we're
chatting with Google about this, is there is a role
for parents to play with their kids academic success, and
it's simply to ask. It could be something as simple
as how are you going? Is there anything you're struggling with?
And even if you don't know how to do it,
you've given them permission to sort of start, I don't know,
to think about it and what do you reckon doogle?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yeah, I like what Christian was saying about, you know,
having that sense of curiosity, that they're not afraid to learn,
that they are not scared to and they don't feel
like they have to know it all, and that they
sort of teaching them to supporting them to find the
answers for themselves, which I think is a is a
great way around about it, really because ultimately it is
(15:50):
their learning and they have to figure it out somehow.
But I do like that idea about encouraging them to
be curious about learning and to find out the answers
for themselves. I think that's a really nice way.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah. Actually, you know, thanks Christna. I appreciate your caught
because you know, in a way, I wonder how many
parents this is guess work, of course, but it's just
a conversation about parenting. I wonder how many of those
parents for those kids who are failing or not reaching
the standards. I wonder how many parents would be surprised
that their child hadn't made the grade or not. And
that's I mean, it's guesswork, isn't it. Let's let's take
(16:24):
some other callers, Raisa Goday, Theresa Terresa.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Hi there, I've just got you on them. Yeah, yeah,
it's a really great discussion. I was just having a
little news while people were talking. But my daughters, I
have a twenty year old now when an eighteen year old,
(16:53):
and both of them and my son who see all
three of them went through the process of twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty twenty one, going through all the lockdowns and
COVID now moving aside from all of that, there's always
(17:14):
called an affect, and what we're saying now was particularly students.
So I think, hey, we don't want to make students,
We don't want to you know, try and what would
I say, not hold our students accountable, But we do
(17:35):
need to have some awinness that you know, for a
majority some students' lives, you know, they were in lockdown,
you know they were not getting you know, teaching adequate care.
And now we're faced with what we're facing today. I
do know from one's autism particularly, and they're beautiful bills
(17:56):
by the lake. You know, I had also quite a
psychological impact on them, you know, going to school, then
coming back home and then locking. You know, it has
had enough on our students, but I think not enough
people are actually talking about that. They're talking about the outcome,
but we're not talking about, Okay, what have we what
(18:17):
have we put our kids through over the last three
to four years. That's just what I want to set
my children.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, what do you reckon? Actually? Look, that's I almost
feel when we talk about COVID it's an excuse it
will last so long, but it is actually quite a
relevant one because there are a few kids who have
been significantly offended, if not offended, affected affected.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, it's been a big disruptor, that's for sure, and
it's caused lots of pretty much every student I think,
to have to experiment and find out learning in new ways.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Certainly, I'm aware from my role at but UNI that some.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Students would have gone through an undergraduate degree and never
had They might never have sat in a lecture theater
at UNI because they might have started in twenty twenty
and all of a sudden it went online, and so
it's I think it's really I mean, it was necessary.
Obviously we didn't want our kids to get sick and die.
(19:19):
But it has been such a huge disruptor, and I'm
not sure that we've that we've fully grasped how much
of a disruptive effect that's had. It was a necessary
thing to do, but we're now I think you know that.
I think it's important to consider that as a role
and consider how we how we look at it, and
it could be good for the future, could be good
(19:40):
that we want to get out ways to do things
in a new flexible way when when if we can't
go to school for whatever reason. But yeah, it's been
tough on those kids who've got to go through that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think, Yeah, thanks for Colterresa. We'll be back in
just a moment. It is twenty seven past five News
Talk ZB Yes, welcome back to the show. Eight hundred
and eighty t and eighty text nine two nine two.
We've been talking about just the NC poor passing rates
and how could parents be more involved, what can they
do to help and do they have a role in it?
We're going to take We've got another call. We're going
(20:12):
to take him just a second. But there was one
other thing I just wanted to run. Buy you for
fun doogal Google Sutherland from Umbrella Organization Umbrella dot org
dot nz. Did you catch up with that story of
British TV personality percursory? Also, people will know her from
whatever that property programs. I can't remember it, but she
(20:34):
she was thrilled when her fifteen year old son returned
from a three week European train trip with his friend.
She said, my little boy has returned from three weeks
into railing. He'll be sixteen on Wednesday. So I went
with a mate who's already sixteen due to hostil travel restrictions.
But they organized the whole thing Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Marseille,
to Louse, Barcelona and Madrid. So she has thrilled about it,
(20:57):
and everyone's piled in on her, but thinking that's absolutely
crazy to let a sixteen year old be responsible for
a fifteen year old and two to be traveling on
their own.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I don't know what I think of this because it
would depend on the child, but yeah, yeah, and Europe
was bloody dangerous.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, although she seemed to be saying, I think there's
a lot bit of cultural context. I think, you know,
there was something in that around she was saying that
after kids in the UK finish their GCSEs, that there's
a bit of a trend that they go up and
they go on a big on a big trip through Europe,
and so there's probably a bit of context missing. It
didn't make me think or remind me that when I
(21:38):
was at kindergarten. So when I was wore my mum,
I used to walk home from kindy in Dunedin. The
teacher would show me across the road and I would
walk and it probably would have been I don't know,
it would have probably taken twenty minutes, a couple probably
a killometer or so that I would have wandered down
by myself, came up the hill to meet me. I
(21:58):
remember and saying that the moment she said, oh well,
it was less busy in those days, wasn't it the
road a last?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Actually?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
These days that would send parents into conniptions, wouldn't it old?
Were you four or five years old?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Four kindergarten?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yeah, I used to walk home from kindergarten. Look, I
think it does depend on the kids, but I think
I think there is a lot to be said for
allowing your children to You're providing that the banks. You
think about their life being like a river. You're providing
the safe banks, and they're weaving in and out between
those banks and all the guardrails. Perhaps, but they've got
(22:36):
to have the opportunity to get it wrong sometimes because
they will also have the opportunity to get it right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's almost a lottery where the odds are all pretty
much in your favor. But if imagine if something terrible
had happened to us some while they're traveling, you know,
and Europe is quite a dangerous place you end up
in the wrong spot, then that would be But there
weren't any need of consequences, so it was a great
learning experience from It's about accepting risk for your kids,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I think so, I mean there's neggar of consequences. You know,
you go into the wrong side of you know, a
big city in New Zealand and it could might might
be dangerous. So I think I think risk is a
part of life and helping your kids navigate that. My
son probably would have done that. He left home at
seventeen and moved up to Auckland, which was fine for him.
(23:24):
My daughter is much less risk taky than him, and
she wouldn't do that, So I think it's a little
bit of horses for courses. When my son moved to Auckland,
we had lots of friends and family up there, so
we had ways of checking in informally on how he
was going, and he could always ring us and we
(23:46):
were there if we could. You know, we're but and
it's not too far away, so I think, you know,
I think kids do need to be able to learn
and to be able to take They'll do it anyway,
so maybe it's best that you do it and support
them to do it, because many kids will take risks anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's interesting if you were a fifth fteen year old
who hasn't hit puberty yet and you're a little boy.
If you're a boy, then probably not. But if you're
I mean, if you're a fifteen year old and you're
sex feet tall and sort of fully physically mature, what's
the difference between another year or two where you literally
could do it legally and without any parental consent. It's
(24:23):
a funny one, isn't it, because it really does depend
on the kids.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah, I noticed too that it seemed like from what
she was saying that sixteen is the age the minimum
age that you could stay in a youth hostel in Europe,
which is surprising because she said the sixteen year old
had to go because they are there to be and
it's like, wow, I didn't realize that. So clearly it's
a bit more. I think in New Zealand might be
eighteen to stay in an accommodation by yourself. I'm not
one hundred percent sure on that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That's when I was twelve, I was at a boarding
school and I did resolve to myself that if something
went wrong and I needed to andn something was wrong
at the school and I needed to get home from
Hamilton to Rote to Ruh, I would have been confident
to walk out the gates and find my way to
road to rue. I probably would have got returned to
(25:07):
the school and cane. But it's funny though, the confidence
I could do that just going to ask someone for
a lift shikes to get them out bloody hell.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yeah, well, yes, it's a different world, well or is it?
I mean, I think there's always been risk out there, right,
there's probably just as many risks staying at home in
some ways.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
At the moment, No, I think, Look, I.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Don't know about that exact example, but I'm all in
favor of, you know, helping your kids push their limits.
And that will vary from kid to kid, but I
think it's useful for them to have some level of
learning and a little bit of discomfort, not too much,
but a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think it's useful.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And look, it's a fascinating story because it does make
us ask these questions as to how far we'd trust
our kids. Whereas obviously she's she's probably lived a life
where he's had a variety of experiences, probably traveled with
her and everything. So he's a reasonably sophisticated kid, and
there would be others And in the end, she's a mum.
That's that's my point. It's sort of like Jesus mum.
(26:08):
She's not hardly a delinquent herself. Maybe we need to
trust parents to make I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, look happens on and you see in New
Zealand flights all the time, and those kids get on
at the end and they've got the little lean yard
around their neck. I'm traveling alone, and I know, I
know you can't do that too young, but it's you know,
there's it's a little bit different, but it's a good
way to get kids experience and give them a bit
of trusty.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
It's great, though, isn't that Social media is great for
a little bit of judgment.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I was talking about some that with somebody the other
day and we noticed the absence of forgiveness about how
with social media we've almost lost the art of forgiving
people or making a mistake because we all make them.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
You know, we will make mistakes all the time. And
but I.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Think that, yeah, it can be a very a very
unforgiving place, which is sad because we don't want to be.
Forgiveness is a great thing to be able to do.
I've needed a lot myself.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So yeah, oh indeed, yeah, I was going to say, well, no,
I'm sense myself on that comments about mate, let's go
to let's go to another caller, Lundy, Hello.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Hello, how are you both to say the name?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Excellent?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Good thanks Lindy.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
I just wanted to touch base on the comment that
you may around parents and parents being more involved in
their children's education, whether it be at home, homework, that
type of thing. Our situation is that we have a
grandson that lives or of course with his mum, and
that there's a she's you know, an arrangement.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Where he's a week with his dad. So anytime with
us as mum, she's always on track with us homeworking,
making sure that he's you know, upward his assignments. When
he goes to dad's house and he comes back to us, well,
she can see that he hasn't completed assignments and things
like this. So there is So you've got that situation
(28:01):
where you've got one parent who's who's trying to do
the test, and then you've got a p and who's
obviously only busy and you know who's just not taking
the time out. So I tend to agree with you, you know,
the comment that they're you know, that parents need to
get more involved with their kids, you know, to ensure
that they are getting through and not slogg length, you know,
and just to sure that you know that the work
(28:22):
is getting done and they're not slipping back all behind.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good point and tough with kids
who are in that sort of split custody household where
there are different expectations, isn't it you know that that
one household supporting it and the other had a different expectation,
and that's that's really tough. But I think that you know,
highlights the importance of just checking and being there, sort
(28:48):
of being being the guardrails. I like to think of
it as you're not doing the work board, but you
know you're being the guardrails and giving them space and
opportunity and showing that you're interested in what they're doing
as well.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I think it's I think it's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Thanks Lindy. Actually it does highlight if you're in different
households that don't usually can as pawns either. That's probably
I mean, if you could repeat any mantra on this
show or something, if you have separate parents, never ever
ever treat your kids as pawns that put their best
and trust first. Actually, Steve sent me about that oe,
you know, letting your kids go traveling at fifteen or sixteen.
(29:23):
It says Tim, we're constantly cold told that fifteen year
olds can't be held criminally responsible as their brains aren't
fully formed. I'd say it wasn't a good idea, but Google,
you could probably tell us that if we were going
to go with when your brain is fully formed or matured,
we wouldn't let men young men travel till they are
around twenty six.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
That's one hundred percent, right, Look, and I think it's
there is a debt. I mean it's a good point, right.
We want to be developed mentally focused and understand that, hey,
they can't make concepts, they can't think as clearly as
as an adult brain. But that's part of it's part
of helping their brain develop. Actually is helping them to lose.
(30:05):
And again, I don't know the pros and cons of
this particular situation about letting a fifteen year old train
around Europe, which, when I.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Sound pretty expert, it's like, whoa, that's a lot, you know,
I think, you know, I think I'm fifteen year old
traveling the length of New Zealand on a plane or
in a train, but into a different country as I
seems a whole nother layer to me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
But look, kids, need you know that you need to
exercise your brain, you need to get it developed. Maybe
this is slightly an extreme example, perhaps, but.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It's such a good that's such a good conversation piece,
isn't it, Because I can I can imagine say, if
I was Look, obviously we're in New Zealand. That's the thing.
Overseas travel is a big deal because we're so isolated
and it's like a right of passage. But yes, I
can imagine so from New Zealand putting my daughters on
a plane to go to Brisbane if my brother was
(31:00):
there to meet them and they were going to stay
with him for a bit. But well, obviously my daughters
are eleven thirteen, so that's a good reason. But I
would trust them to make a basic trip where there
wasn't much opportunity for intervention. Yeah, in any sinister way,
which is why the train thing is an interesting one,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yeah. I've traveled a little bit on trains in Europe
and I found a very kind of you know, particularly
on those long long distance train trips. It was like
we just jump on and it stops at a couple
of stations and you get off at the next station.
It's and there was always a conductor or somebody around.
I thought it was quite secure, but you know, what
are they doing and when they get there. I guess
(31:41):
it's the other question. The story smacks a little bit
of privilege too, doesn't it. That's like, well, my child's been.
You know, where were.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
All the places that they that the kid had been
and been?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Like, it's a lean France and Greece and I'm going, Jesus,
I haven't even been to half of those countries and
I'm on fifty one.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I think that's probably why it attracted a bit of criticism,
isn't it because she's she's got that touch of posh
about her, I guess, and people are like, that's lovely
if you can. He probably went business class.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
That's right, Yeah, will it'd be interesting to know who
paid for it in terms of that, But yeah, where
did it? Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Marsei to lose Bars,
Barcelona and Madrid.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's like Crocky's I'd love.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
To go to all those countries by myself.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I mean, then again, I guess it's worth us asking
these questions though, isn't it because this generation appearance. I
think it's been described as the anxious generation, or kids
at least, And.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yeah, look, I think you're right. I think It sparked
a really good conversation around what are acceptable limits for
our kids? Have we gone too far and clamping down
on them? And there are pros and cons on both sides,
you know. We know, for example, rates of adolescent drug
and alcohol use and anti social behavior have gone down
(33:03):
in the last ten years, and probably most of us
would say that's a good thing. Now there are other
negative things as well, but I think it's a really
good question to go what's what what level of rain
should we be should we.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Have on our kids as they grow up?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And actually, I think the other thing that highlights that
you should know whether your kid, you should know whether
your child is up for an adventure, is slightly younger,
because that's about knowing, you know. And in the end,
she knows a son and she's made a call and
to be honest.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, yeah, we can absolutely yeah. Well, and I think
that looked like social service that had got involved too,
that she'd had a call from social services.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Which which you would have would.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Have been a pause for thought.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I think, so, ah, pause for thought for who society.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Whole profile, I guess, wouldn't it be you? You would
want to be seen to be doing something I imagine
and that's its creation. But yeah, look it certainly sparks.
I think, if nothing else, that sparks a good time
to reflect on.
Speaker 7 (34:12):
Ha.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Look what are my lomits for my kids? And how
have I even come up with them? Because I, you know,
I just do stuff, But how do what? What are
the rules that I've even said for them? Were our kids?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Good stuff?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Hey, thanks so much for your time. Time flies when
you having fun, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (34:28):
There it is forty five again, thanks Tim always.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And if people want to check out your organization and
the work you do Umbrella dot org dot nz.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
That's the one.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Yeah, thanks, thank care.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Take it bye. We'll be back in a moment to
rap sport with Elijah Few who's joining us in the studio,
and just to take quite quite a bit of sport
coming up at the Paralympics. But of course certain test
match between the South Africans and the All Blacks coming
up overnight at this quarter to six and New Stalks'd.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Be for more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Listen live to news Talk z BE weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim
Beverage and this is the Parents Squad. What your call O?
E one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text nine
two nine too. If you miss him in have any
of our previous hours, go to where you podcast is.
Look for the Weekend Collective. iHeartRadio. Great place to start
and finish, to be honest. Right now it's time for
the as I mentioned, time for the Parents Squad. My
(00:32):
guest is he's a psychologist at Victoria University and his
name is Google Sutherland. Google. Gooday, how are you going?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Good day, Tim?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How are you not too bad? You've got a of
course you're from your company? Is all the organization work
for by your backdrop is subtly suggested to me. Of
course Umbreller. It's Umbreller dot org dot z.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
That's right, Yes, yeah, you're I am. I I do
do a bit of teaching at VIC as well, so
you're not wrong. But my day, Joe, I was Umbrella
well being.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and have you been what's news? What's wrong?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I've been exhausted actually to be honest, We've been frantically
busy at work and I got to I hit a
wall on Thursday or Friday and just couldn't do much
and so stopped and had a sleep and all was
right after that.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, well, I think I have seen you pop up
a few a little bit. You might have been on
mic show. I think I was, yeah, yeah, yeah, was
that In respect of.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
That, there was about people taking cell phone footage of
those that big accident on the OK.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That was horrendous. That's terrible, just horrendous. Hey, now, look
the topic we've got to kick off with today as
I don't want it to come across as as to
accuse a tree in terms of the way that we've
we've put it together. But you know, the poor n
(01:56):
c A pass rates, I've just raised the question and
so I'm just going to ask it bluntly. Is there
something to do to do as well with parents and
the lack of engagement with their kids' education. And a
nice way to put it was could parents be more involved?
Because the results that we've seen in terms of the
(02:17):
pass rate for n CEA, they're not flash and you've
got to start asking yourself, what has what's caused it,
but also what can help with it? Is there something
to be said for we have parents who are you know,
they're all too busy themselves, and not many parents have
the time that they might have had to keep an
(02:39):
eye on their kids homework. Kids are on their devices.
Who knows if they're doing their homework or they're playing
a game and all that sort of stuff. So yeah,
there we go. There's the broad question is it all
the parents fault?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
We got there eventually then boiled it down.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Is it really the parents? School?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's funny, isn't it. I mean, it's it's often kids said.
My kids particularly didn't have homework at primary school. When
they get to high school it was a bit of
a wake up call and and yeah, hard for them.
I think, you know, if you struggle a bit with school,
motivation to actually do stuff after, you know, homework and
(03:18):
stuff is pretty challenging, let alone the content.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I mean, I could help my.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Primary school age children with their stuff, but by the
time they got to sort of year ten and eleven,
I was I was subbing, tapping up by that stage,
was like, I've got no idea what you're doing. But
I think there's I think there is certainly something about here.
It's being interested and involved and open and the portal
of their kids working. They're not going to be able
to do it for them, but setting up that environment
(03:45):
if they can.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, do you think there's anything more to it than that?
Really is? I mean, what was your reaction to the
nca pass rates in terms of what's behind it? Because
it's almost like there's a generation that are going, well, now,
you know, ten years ago we're fine, and all of
a sudden we're failing.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I know, I found there a Yeah, we used to
be sort of hot, you know, top in the world
or closer top of the world, didn't we and it's
just fallen down. Gosh, if we could unpick that one,
it would be amazing. Wouldn't we stand for We could
stand for Parliament?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think, well, it'd be a great podcast, doesn't it.
Wouldn't it be amazing to say, listen Tim Beverbridge with
Google Sullivan or should I say Google Solent? Sorry Google Sutherland. Sorry,
I've just had no Sullivan, so I'm still stuck in
Google Sutherland solves the question around NCAA fail rates. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we'd be rock and rolling, wouldn't well.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
It was a new online test, wasn't it that they
were talking about. So it's a new it's it's that
new literacy component. Isn't it that you need to and
it's brand new. It's It's always interesting, isn't it when
they introduce a new test and people don't fail.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Sorry, they do fail?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It you go now? Is that the test?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Is it just the test too hard? Perhaps maybe they
need to tweak the test. Maybe it's because I wonder
too how much we're still noticing the knock on effects
of COVID lockdown and kids disengaging from school. That was
tricky time for my daughter. I remember it was very
hard to be engaged for that long during those lockdown periods.
(05:12):
And you know, education builds sort of brick on brick
on brick, you know, and if you miss some key
features early on, it's hard to catch those back up
as you go, as you get into later life.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think the thing that stood out for me was,
I guess it's worrying teachers. So there's low pass rates
and new online Okay, so that online yeah, I mean
does tend to raise that question. Is it because there's
a generation of kids who are sort of slipping because
of the COVID thing and even that I've seen, or
is it the other thing that's as new as the tests?
(05:43):
I guess. But if it's worrying such secondary teachers, I mean,
I guess maybe the broader question is and we want
your calls on it as well. At one hundred and
eighty ten eighty, what do you do to help your
kids learn? Because I think as a parent, look, I
don't have a history of parenting years ago. I'm just
(06:04):
you know, we're all new to the game, and I'm
conscious of how easy it is to not quite keep
tabs on what your kids are up to with their
homework and weather they're on top of things. And I'm
married to a teacher who will give me the reminder
have you checked with my daughter? How one of my daughters?
Have you checked that they're onto their homework? And I'll
(06:25):
be like, oh, I forgot.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yes, yes, yes, no, I agree. I think there's a place, really,
isn't there for parents getting those expectations and hey, we
you know this is and at least inquiring and showing
they're curious and interested if you've got time. You know,
some parents, of course, are busy working two jobs and
they're not home and can't can't keep that eye on
(06:47):
the kids that regularly, and that's tough. But certainly sitting
that expectation and that some sort of environment that they
can work in, and that might be tough for some people.
But is there a table that you can work at
in your house that you know it can be quiet
and distraction free for a period.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, Actually, that's an interesting question, just about a rule,
about the rules that you have with where you can
do the homework, because yeah, in the in the old days,
you'd go off to your room because all you had
was your pen, your books, and your and your bit
of paper, whereas now it's like, well, hang on a minute,
what you've got your laptop? No, you're out in the
lounge here where I can see what you're doing. What
(07:27):
what what apprasion does you have with your kids too?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, we're I don't I don't think they wanted to
do homework when they did it in their rooms anyway,
they tended to be out sending. My daughter is much
better at coming out and working in the in the kitchen,
the dining room.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Part of a lot, being part of the sort of vibe.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
So.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Look, I've got to be honest too, though, I mean
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I did well at school, but I.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Did not do very much work at school, you know, study.
I can remember my pitifull attempts, attempts to study for
the school sirt and whatever else we had bursary back
in the day, And when I compare them to what
I did at Uni, it was like, man, I just
kind of sat on my bed and read my notes
and it was pretty pitiful stuff when I think back.
So even though I was dedicated and committed in my
(08:16):
parents were you know, I had the expectation, the actual
quality of what I did was pretty rubbish. I've got
to be honest. It wasn't until I got to Union
when gee, I've got to do this sort of stuff myself.
I've really got to knuckle down, and I learned a
few weather techniques that helped me a lot. But the
very least wanting parents, you know, have it if they
can have they got a space. It's a bit like
working from home, right for an adult working from home,
(08:38):
you have a nice I have a space that you
can work from home and then you can pack away again.
Have you got the same at least for your kids.
Is that possible in your household? Won't be possible for everybody.
Is there a desk space available?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Is it quiet?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
And you just sort of gently monitor in the background
that they're not on YouTube again, And then they'll say, oh, no,
it's for it's for school. I'm researching stuff. It's like, oh,
it's okay, don it's much more complicated. I think that's
certainly than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I guess it's funny. Actually, the thing is, what
is that? I'm just trying to think about our own
experiences learning. And look, I probably didn't do much work
at all. I probably got by on my wits a
little bit because I could, But I mean I wasn't
failing in terms of the basics and stuff. What do
we know anything else about the course of Why there's
(09:27):
such a low sort of past rated.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
No, some of it is that battle, isn't it between
the how you teach literacy? And that's been that huge
battle going on at the moment. Is it the is
it I forget the terms of the the context learning?
Or is it sort of wrote it's not rote learning
but learning? And I know that there's been some quite
(09:54):
quite big debates about the impact of that and how
much of an impact that has. I think we need
to do something too as a society to make things
like maths actually more appealing. Like maths is not appealing
and people just don't like to do it, and even
maths teachers I've spoken to don't like doing maths a
lot of the time. Yeah, it is, and it's all
(10:16):
we do it because we kind of have to. And
it's like, no, no, we should be enthused about. We
should be having teachers who are enthused about these sorts
of things. And we want to enthuse our kids too
if we can. We want to get our kids to
be enthusiastic about learning and see it as a challenge
in something to be enjoyed. I know that, I know
it's not going to be true for every child or
every family, but possible that would be, you know, I
(10:37):
think we really want to make it for something that
they see that and to get something good out of
It's hard if if you're struggling and failing all the time, why,
you know, to find the motivation.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It actually be interesting to see with you know, obviously
Erica Stanford's got the bit between the teeth on education
where it's interesting to see what affects the work that
she's to get done. We'll make a difference with because
maybe is it. Do you think it's a possibility that
there's just as simple that we've been teaching it wrong
the last few years and it's finally caught up with us.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Yeah, look, I think that's an argument. I'm not familiar
enough with the pros and cons of ect dide. But
the other thing I think about education is that it
takes so long to be to come through for it
to see an effect, So you you know it's going
to be you know, ten years down the track that
we see the impact of this. So it's a long
(11:27):
game unfortunately. So it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I guess the short thing is there is a role
for parents to play, isn't there I guess, And trying
to have a dialogue with your kids about what they're doing,
what they're struggling.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
With, absolutely, and setting it up, setting it up when
they're young so that they get into those patterns as
much as possible, even if they're just doing a little
bit just the idea that and maybe teaching them a
little bit how to study if that's possible. It's a
bit of a mystery. I think when you're a teenager
and you try to figure out how to study. I've
been lucky enough to be a psychologist, so I can
(11:58):
teach my daughter some tips. But everybody isn't that Not
everybody is in that position.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, no, not quite. But we want to have your
calls on this. I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
I think a nicer way to ask the question is
what role comparents play in helping their kids do better
at school? Or do you just leave it all up
to the teachers, because I I'm trying to think how
much my parents did with me actually, But anyway, let's
take some calls on this. I eight hundred eighty ten
eighty text nine nine two. I have we've got time
(12:24):
before the end of this segment as well. I did
love that story about Kirsty Alsop, who's the host of
one of those property shows, who let her fifteen year
old travel across Europe with a friend. And it might
seem open and shut is to whether that's a good
or a bad way of parenting. But it does raise
(12:44):
the question as to indepense with your kids. But let's
take some calls on the on just our lack of
achievement right now and what role parents can play Krishna, gooday, oh,
how was the good good things?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
You know, oh, very good question. I think that made
me think a little bit. When the kids really small,
I think if the focus was on asking every day
as to what the homework is, and usually the teacher
would make them write that in the book, and so
we'd asked the question, they'll show it to us. And
over time, you know, we just we Our our job
(13:21):
was to hold them accountable for us to speak some
some topics we could help them with some they were
doing their own research and that was all cool. As
they got older, I think the question changed from our perspective.
We were more asking about what subjects they're like and
what they don't like, and that way we said do
you want to have tutors and or do you want
(13:43):
you know, the older brother to help you. So effectively
we were saying it's okay, do not know. But there
are other strategies of dealing with it. You can go
onto YouTube, you can you can go to the library.
You can ask the older brother. You can ask But
I'm an engineer, my wife's a teacher and she's had
double double degree too. So even if we can't find
the answer, no we don't know, the answer'll find it
(14:05):
for you, which meant which meant that they were not
scared of not knowing and not coming across as somebody
who doesn't know anything in that area. And and because
we didn't know either, because we were we were not
saying we know everything you know, and and YouTube was
a good source and internet was a good source. In fact,
I think there was some assignments from the teachers who said,
(14:26):
your job is to find the answer for this through
YouTube and the internet. So they were making people go
through the web and also making their own judgment onto
as to whether the stuff that they had just heard
or seen was right, because as you know, a lot
a lot of the stuff on there is questionable. And yeah,
(14:51):
I mean so, so I think that helped us. And
we were not we were not making them sit on
the table with us, but we were just having that discussion.
And it won't even be daily as they got older.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I think, Christian, see what you're hitting on is sort
of what I was getting at. Is like when we're
chatting with Google about this, is there is a role
for parents to play with their kids academic success, and
it's simply to ask. It could be something as simple
as how are you going? Is there anything you're struggling with?
And even if you don't know how to do it,
you've given them permission to sort of start, I don't know,
to think about it and what do you reckon doogle?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yeah, I like what Christian was saying about, you know,
having that sense of curiosity, that they're not afraid to learn,
that they are not scared to and they don't feel
like they have to know it all, and that they
sort of teaching them to supporting them to find the
answers for themselves, which I think is a is a
great way around about it, really because ultimately it is
(15:50):
their learning and they have to figure it out somehow.
But I do like that idea about encouraging them to
be curious about learning and to find out the answers
for themselves. I think that's a really nice way.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah. Actually, you know, thanks Christna. I appreciate your caught
because you know, in a way, I wonder how many
parents this is guess work, of course, but it's just
a conversation about parenting. I wonder how many of those
parents for those kids who are failing or not reaching
the standards. I wonder how many parents would be surprised
that their child hadn't made the grade or not. And
that's I mean, it's guesswork, isn't it. Let's let's take
(16:24):
some other callers, Raisa Goday, Theresa Terresa.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Hi there, I've just got you on them. Yeah, yeah,
it's a really great discussion. I was just having a
little news while people were talking. But my daughters, I
have a twenty year old now when an eighteen year old,
(16:53):
and both of them and my son who see all
three of them went through the process of twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty twenty one, going through all the lockdowns and
COVID now moving aside from all of that, there's always
(17:14):
called an affect, and what we're saying now was particularly students.
So I think, hey, we don't want to make students,
We don't want to you know, try and what would
I say, not hold our students accountable, But we do
(17:35):
need to have some awinness that you know, for a
majority some students' lives, you know, they were in lockdown,
you know they were not getting you know, teaching adequate care.
And now we're faced with what we're facing today. I
do know from one's autism particularly, and they're beautiful bills
(17:56):
by the lake. You know, I had also quite a
psychological impact on them, you know, going to school, then
coming back home and then locking. You know, it has
had enough on our students, but I think not enough
people are actually talking about that. They're talking about the outcome,
but we're not talking about, Okay, what have we what
(18:17):
have we put our kids through over the last three
to four years. That's just what I want to set
my children.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, what do you reckon? Actually? Look, that's I almost
feel when we talk about COVID it's an excuse it
will last so long, but it is actually quite a
relevant one because there are a few kids who have
been significantly offended, if not offended, affected affected.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, it's been a big disruptor, that's for sure, and
it's caused lots of pretty much every student I think,
to have to experiment and find out learning in new ways.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Certainly, I'm aware from my role at but UNI that some.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Students would have gone through an undergraduate degree and never
had They might never have sat in a lecture theater
at UNI because they might have started in twenty twenty
and all of a sudden it went online, and so
it's I think it's really I mean, it was necessary.
Obviously we didn't want our kids to get sick and die.
(19:19):
But it has been such a huge disruptor, and I'm
not sure that we've that we've fully grasped how much
of a disruptive effect that's had. It was a necessary
thing to do, but we're now I think you know that.
I think it's important to consider that as a role
and consider how we how we look at it, and
it could be good for the future, could be good
(19:40):
that we want to get out ways to do things
in a new flexible way when when if we can't
go to school for whatever reason. But yeah, it's been
tough on those kids who've got to go through that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think, Yeah, thanks for Colterresa. We'll be back in
just a moment. It is twenty seven past five News
Talk ZB Yes, welcome back to the show. Eight hundred
and eighty t and eighty text nine two nine two.
We've been talking about just the NC poor passing rates
and how could parents be more involved, what can they
do to help and do they have a role in it?
We're going to take We've got another call. We're going
(20:12):
to take him just a second. But there was one
other thing I just wanted to run. Buy you for
fun doogal Google Sutherland from Umbrella Organization Umbrella dot org
dot nz. Did you catch up with that story of
British TV personality percursory? Also, people will know her from
whatever that property programs. I can't remember it, but she
(20:34):
she was thrilled when her fifteen year old son returned
from a three week European train trip with his friend.
She said, my little boy has returned from three weeks
into railing. He'll be sixteen on Wednesday. So I went
with a mate who's already sixteen due to hostil travel restrictions.
But they organized the whole thing Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Marseille,
to Louse, Barcelona and Madrid. So she has thrilled about it,
(20:57):
and everyone's piled in on her, but thinking that's absolutely
crazy to let a sixteen year old be responsible for
a fifteen year old and two to be traveling on
their own.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I don't know what I think of this because it
would depend on the child, but yeah, yeah, and Europe
was bloody dangerous.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, although she seemed to be saying, I think there's
a lot bit of cultural context. I think, you know,
there was something in that around she was saying that
after kids in the UK finish their GCSEs, that there's
a bit of a trend that they go up and
they go on a big on a big trip through Europe,
and so there's probably a bit of context missing. It
didn't make me think or remind me that when I
(21:38):
was at kindergarten. So when I was wore my mum,
I used to walk home from kindy in Dunedin. The
teacher would show me across the road and I would
walk and it probably would have been I don't know,
it would have probably taken twenty minutes, a couple probably
a killometer or so that I would have wandered down
by myself, came up the hill to meet me. I
(21:58):
remember and saying that the moment she said, oh well,
it was less busy in those days, wasn't it the
road a last?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Actually?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
These days that would send parents into conniptions, wouldn't it old?
Were you four or five years old?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Four kindergarten?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yeah, I used to walk home from kindergarten. Look, I
think it does depend on the kids, but I think
I think there is a lot to be said for
allowing your children to You're providing that the banks. You
think about their life being like a river. You're providing
the safe banks, and they're weaving in and out between
those banks and all the guardrails. Perhaps, but they've got
(22:36):
to have the opportunity to get it wrong sometimes because
they will also have the opportunity to get it right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's almost a lottery where the odds are all pretty
much in your favor. But if imagine if something terrible
had happened to us some while they're traveling, you know,
and Europe is quite a dangerous place you end up
in the wrong spot, then that would be But there
weren't any need of consequences, so it was a great
learning experience from It's about accepting risk for your kids,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I think so, I mean there's neggar of consequences. You know,
you go into the wrong side of you know, a
big city in New Zealand and it could might might
be dangerous. So I think I think risk is a
part of life and helping your kids navigate that. My
son probably would have done that. He left home at
seventeen and moved up to Auckland, which was fine for him.
(23:24):
My daughter is much less risk taky than him, and
she wouldn't do that, So I think it's a little
bit of horses for courses. When my son moved to Auckland,
we had lots of friends and family up there, so
we had ways of checking in informally on how he
was going, and he could always ring us and we
(23:46):
were there if we could. You know, we're but and
it's not too far away, so I think, you know,
I think kids do need to be able to learn
and to be able to take They'll do it anyway,
so maybe it's best that you do it and support
them to do it, because many kids will take risks anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's interesting if you were a fifth fteen year old
who hasn't hit puberty yet and you're a little boy.
If you're a boy, then probably not. But if you're
I mean, if you're a fifteen year old and you're
sex feet tall and sort of fully physically mature, what's
the difference between another year or two where you literally
could do it legally and without any parental consent. It's
(24:23):
a funny one, isn't it, because it really does depend
on the kids.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah, I noticed too that it seemed like from what
she was saying that sixteen is the age the minimum
age that you could stay in a youth hostel in Europe,
which is surprising because she said the sixteen year old
had to go because they are there to be and
it's like, wow, I didn't realize that. So clearly it's
a bit more. I think in New Zealand might be
eighteen to stay in an accommodation by yourself. I'm not
one hundred percent sure on that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That's when I was twelve, I was at a boarding
school and I did resolve to myself that if something
went wrong and I needed to andn something was wrong
at the school and I needed to get home from
Hamilton to Rote to Ruh, I would have been confident
to walk out the gates and find my way to
road to rue. I probably would have got returned to
(25:07):
the school and cane. But it's funny though, the confidence
I could do that just going to ask someone for
a lift shikes to get them out bloody hell.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yeah, well, yes, it's a different world, well or is it?
I mean, I think there's always been risk out there, right,
there's probably just as many risks staying at home in
some ways.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
At the moment, No, I think, Look, I.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Don't know about that exact example, but I'm all in
favor of, you know, helping your kids push their limits.
And that will vary from kid to kid, but I
think it's useful for them to have some level of
learning and a little bit of discomfort, not too much,
but a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think it's useful.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And look, it's a fascinating story because it does make
us ask these questions as to how far we'd trust
our kids. Whereas obviously she's she's probably lived a life
where he's had a variety of experiences, probably traveled with
her and everything. So he's a reasonably sophisticated kid, and
there would be others And in the end, she's a mum.
That's that's my point. It's sort of like Jesus mum.
(26:08):
She's not hardly a delinquent herself. Maybe we need to
trust parents to make I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, look happens on and you see in New
Zealand flights all the time, and those kids get on
at the end and they've got the little lean yard
around their neck. I'm traveling alone, and I know, I
know you can't do that too young, but it's you know,
there's it's a little bit different, but it's a good
way to get kids experience and give them a bit
of trusty.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
It's great, though, isn't that Social media is great for
a little bit of judgment.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I was talking about some that with somebody the other
day and we noticed the absence of forgiveness about how
with social media we've almost lost the art of forgiving
people or making a mistake because we all make them.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
You know, we will make mistakes all the time. And
but I.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Think that, yeah, it can be a very a very
unforgiving place, which is sad because we don't want to be.
Forgiveness is a great thing to be able to do.
I've needed a lot myself.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So yeah, oh indeed, yeah, I was going to say, well, no,
I'm sense myself on that comments about mate, let's go
to let's go to another caller, Lundy, Hello.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Hello, how are you both to say the name?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Excellent?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Good thanks Lindy.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
I just wanted to touch base on the comment that
you may around parents and parents being more involved in
their children's education, whether it be at home, homework, that
type of thing. Our situation is that we have a
grandson that lives or of course with his mum, and
that there's a she's you know, an arrangement.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Where he's a week with his dad. So anytime with
us as mum, she's always on track with us homeworking,
making sure that he's you know, upward his assignments. When
he goes to dad's house and he comes back to us, well,
she can see that he hasn't completed assignments and things
like this. So there is So you've got that situation
(28:01):
where you've got one parent who's who's trying to do
the test, and then you've got a p and who's
obviously only busy and you know who's just not taking
the time out. So I tend to agree with you, you know,
the comment that they're you know, that parents need to
get more involved with their kids, you know, to ensure
that they are getting through and not slogg length, you know,
and just to sure that you know that the work
(28:22):
is getting done and they're not slipping back all behind.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good point and tough with kids
who are in that sort of split custody household where
there are different expectations, isn't it you know that that
one household supporting it and the other had a different expectation,
and that's that's really tough. But I think that you know,
highlights the importance of just checking and being there, sort
(28:48):
of being being the guardrails. I like to think of
it as you're not doing the work board, but you
know you're being the guardrails and giving them space and
opportunity and showing that you're interested in what they're doing
as well.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I think it's I think it's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Thanks Lindy. Actually it does highlight if you're in different
households that don't usually can as pawns either. That's probably
I mean, if you could repeat any mantra on this
show or something, if you have separate parents, never ever
ever treat your kids as pawns that put their best
and trust first. Actually, Steve sent me about that oe,
you know, letting your kids go traveling at fifteen or sixteen.
(29:23):
It says Tim, we're constantly cold told that fifteen year
olds can't be held criminally responsible as their brains aren't
fully formed. I'd say it wasn't a good idea, but Google,
you could probably tell us that if we were going
to go with when your brain is fully formed or matured,
we wouldn't let men young men travel till they are
around twenty six.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
That's one hundred percent, right, Look, and I think it's
there is a debt. I mean it's a good point, right.
We want to be developed mentally focused and understand that, hey,
they can't make concepts, they can't think as clearly as
as an adult brain. But that's part of it's part
of helping their brain develop. Actually is helping them to lose.
(30:05):
And again, I don't know the pros and cons of
this particular situation about letting a fifteen year old train
around Europe, which, when I.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Sound pretty expert, it's like, whoa, that's a lot, you know,
I think, you know, I think I'm fifteen year old
traveling the length of New Zealand on a plane or
in a train, but into a different country as I
seems a whole nother layer to me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
But look, kids, need you know that you need to
exercise your brain, you need to get it developed. Maybe
this is slightly an extreme example, perhaps, but.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It's such a good that's such a good conversation piece,
isn't it, Because I can I can imagine say, if
I was Look, obviously we're in New Zealand. That's the thing.
Overseas travel is a big deal because we're so isolated
and it's like a right of passage. But yes, I
can imagine so from New Zealand putting my daughters on
a plane to go to Brisbane if my brother was
(31:00):
there to meet them and they were going to stay
with him for a bit. But well, obviously my daughters
are eleven thirteen, so that's a good reason. But I
would trust them to make a basic trip where there
wasn't much opportunity for intervention. Yeah, in any sinister way,
which is why the train thing is an interesting one,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yeah. I've traveled a little bit on trains in Europe
and I found a very kind of you know, particularly
on those long long distance train trips. It was like
we just jump on and it stops at a couple
of stations and you get off at the next station.
It's and there was always a conductor or somebody around.
I thought it was quite secure, but you know, what
are they doing and when they get there. I guess
(31:41):
it's the other question. The story smacks a little bit
of privilege too, doesn't it. That's like, well, my child's been.
You know, where were.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
All the places that they that the kid had been
and been?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Like, it's a lean France and Greece and I'm going, Jesus,
I haven't even been to half of those countries and
I'm on fifty one.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I think that's probably why it attracted a bit of criticism,
isn't it because she's she's got that touch of posh
about her, I guess, and people are like, that's lovely
if you can. He probably went business class.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
That's right, Yeah, will it'd be interesting to know who
paid for it in terms of that, But yeah, where
did it? Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Marsei to lose Bars,
Barcelona and Madrid.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's like Crocky's I'd love.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
To go to all those countries by myself.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I mean, then again, I guess it's worth us asking
these questions though, isn't it because this generation appearance. I
think it's been described as the anxious generation, or kids
at least, And.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yeah, look, I think you're right. I think It sparked
a really good conversation around what are acceptable limits for
our kids? Have we gone too far and clamping down
on them? And there are pros and cons on both sides,
you know. We know, for example, rates of adolescent drug
and alcohol use and anti social behavior have gone down
(33:03):
in the last ten years, and probably most of us
would say that's a good thing. Now there are other
negative things as well, but I think it's a really
good question to go what's what what level of rain
should we be should we.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Have on our kids as they grow up?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And actually, I think the other thing that highlights that
you should know whether your kid, you should know whether
your child is up for an adventure, is slightly younger,
because that's about knowing, you know. And in the end,
she knows a son and she's made a call and
to be honest.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, yeah, we can absolutely yeah. Well, and I think
that looked like social service that had got involved too,
that she'd had a call from social services.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Which which you would have would.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Have been a pause for thought.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I think, so, ah, pause for thought for who society.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Whole profile, I guess, wouldn't it be you? You would
want to be seen to be doing something I imagine
and that's its creation. But yeah, look it certainly sparks.
I think, if nothing else, that sparks a good time
to reflect on.
Speaker 7 (34:12):
Ha.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Look what are my lomits for my kids? And how
have I even come up with them? Because I, you know,
I just do stuff, But how do what? What are
the rules that I've even said for them? Were our kids?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Good stuff?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Hey, thanks so much for your time. Time flies when
you having fun, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (34:28):
There it is forty five again, thanks Tim always.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And if people want to check out your organization and
the work you do Umbrella dot org dot nz.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
That's the one.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Yeah, thanks, thank care.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Take it bye. We'll be back in a moment to
rap sport with Elijah Few who's joining us in the studio,
and just to take quite quite a bit of sport
coming up at the Paralympics. But of course certain test
match between the South Africans and the All Blacks coming
up overnight at this quarter to six and New Stalks'd.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Be for more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Listen live to news Talk z BE weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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