January 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Statistics from Auckland Hospital show there has been a dramatic increase in women requesting c-sections in recent year, but a drop in women actually getting elective c-sections.
The number also show an unfortunate increase in emergency c-sections.
Grace Strange is a midwife and founder of Antenatal Co., and she joins with more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ab.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ant Together News Talk c e B Weekend Collective. Six
minutes past five, I'm Jess with you through until six
(00:33):
o'clock and it's my pleasure for the first time on
the Parents Squad to welcome midwife Grace Strange. Hi, Grace, Hello,
how are you very well? Thank you and thanks for
making time for us. Now, you're a midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. Can you tell us just a
bit about yourself and your background as being a midwife.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, so I've been a midwife for thirteen years in Auckland,
mostly a hospital based midwife, so we worked across the
whole spectrum of birth and post natal and anti natal
and then I've been running inten intenatal classes for about
seven years.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Wow. Wow, I want to get into the antenatal class
chat at some point this hour. Absolutely, And just before
we get into the chat itself, are you noticing still
a shortage of midwives? What's the landscape like?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh yeah, yep, definitely massive shortage of midwives. There's work
everywhere all over the country, so yeah, we need more.
If anyone wants to study.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We definitely do Yep, people are still having babies, absolutely,
they always will now. A great statistics from Auckland Hospital
show there's been a dramatic increase in women requesting sea
sections in recent years, but a drop in women actually
getting elective sea sections. Unfortunately. The numbers also show that
the amount of emergency sea sections has increased. Could this
(01:56):
be related and why are so many people asking for
sea sections?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So the sea section.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
So Orkland Hospital puts out a their statistics every year
for the last twenty years, and so this year is
the first year that they've shown that their sea section
rate is higher than their spontaneous vaginal birth rate. So
is a concerning stat for lots of people. Reasons why
(02:23):
this Maybe there's that Orkan Hospital, first and foremost is
a tertiary hospital, which means that they deal with the
most sick people, women and babies, so therefore higher chances
of having a sea section. But also my personal opinion
is that we're older. I'm thirty five and I had
just had my first baby last year, and we're all
(02:45):
we're all, you know, we're not in our early twenties
having babies anymore. So I think I personally think that
this has a huge impact on not saying that you
know women older women can't have lovely vaginal births, but
you know the rate of emergency sea sections is very high,
and so yeah, it could be a reason why is
because we're just we're old, we're geriatric. I'm geriatric thirty
(03:09):
five and I'm a geriatric pregnancy.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I had my son when I was thirty and they
mentioned geriatric to me and I was going, what on earth?
But just before we carry on eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
if you've got any questions for midwife Grace Strange around
not only the C section aspect of things, but I
want to know what are some of the things you
were never told before you became a grandparent or a
(03:34):
parent and would have changed the way you did things.
What advice do you wish that you'd been told, or
what advice would you give to your grandchildren or children
having kids?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Now?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or if you've got
any questions relating to parenting for Grace, we'd love to
hear from you all. Nineteen nine two, Now, Grace, what
are the statistics around do you have figures around how
many women are actually having them.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I do, so I'm only going off the Ugland hospital
ones because they have the best and have done a
best job at giving them. So in this report, they've
released the twenty twenty three stats which they released in
August last year, so they're the c section rate was
at forty four point six percent of all births. So
(04:22):
there was five seven hundred births at a hospital last year,
forty four point six percent of them were c sections
and only forty two point nine of them were spontaneous
vaginal births. Wow, okay, and so big, you know, big, big,
big change, big times being at more than more than
(04:44):
previous times. So with the with that statistic, twenty nine
point four percent of them were emergency and fifteen point
two percent of them were an elective. Now, if you
were a first time mum, then your chances of having
a C section were at forty eight point nine percent.
So the first time I'm giving birth last year in
(05:07):
twenty twenty three, sorry, you had almost a fifty percent
chance of having a c section. And this definitely was
reflected in my internet of classes.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So I met it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
With the girls after they've had their babies for their
first coffee group and I would say definitely at least
fifty percent of them are having C sections.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And why do you think that people are actually asking
for them more? Is it becoming I don't want to
say an easier option, but people perceiving it to be
the easier way because the recovery time seems to be
much longer.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
The recovery time can be much longer you are having,
you know, quite a full on abdominal surgery. However, if
you had a really awful rugged vaginal birth, you could
have lifelong recovery effects from that. So I think people
are requesting them because they like.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
To be in control. It could be a reason.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You know, we've had we're older, having babies older, so
you know, we've had these lovely careers that we've been
in charge of, and so you know, it's quite handy
to know the date and the time that your baby's
going to be falling. Also rask Also again we're having
babies older. Lots and lots and lots of people, including myself,
you know, needed reproductive assistance or IVF to get pregnant. Sure,
(06:27):
and so a elective sitey section again is a controlled
environment where you can can mostly control the outcome. There's
a lot less you know, up in the are of
how it's going to go. Sure, so yeah, I think, yeah,
I mean I personally, I know, I'm a midwife and
I have been to many births, but for me, I
(06:51):
had an elective site section, which is a very un
Midwifi thing to say and do.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I was gonna say that because midwives prefer naturlutely.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes, Okay, I'm like, I'm a I'm an enigma. I'm
not the I'm not your traditional midwife. But again, old,
I'm older. I had a real bit reproductive, you know,
assistance to get pregnant, and from all the thousands and
thousands of births that I've been to, that personally felt
like the.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Best choice for me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Sure, and I had I was able, you know, I
was d after by an obstrician, and so I was
able to choose that. Certainly, not everybody gets to choose that.
If you don't have a paid for obstetrician then and
you don't have a you know, you're likely to you're
less likely, sorry to get an elective sea section.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And i'd imagine too grace if someone's walking and saying
I want it born on the fourteenth of February because
that's Valentine's Day or whatever. You know, if you don't
have a really justified reason and resources are quite short,
the chances are you're probably not going to get what
you're asking for.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, And you also don't get control. So
as much as I on the date, sorry, as much
as I wanted a sea section, you don't get to
choose the fourteenth of February.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
That's the hospital's job.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To fair enough, to fair enough to oh wait, one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to have your
calls on this. Whether you've had an experience with a
C section yourself, what was it? Straightforward? Do you wish
that you'd had one or wish you hadn't? You can
text through to nine two nine two as well. Grace
is here to answer all parenting all range of parenting
questions for you this hour. And then another question, what
(08:27):
are some of the things you were never told before
you became a parent or a grandparent and would it
have changed the way you did things? Grace. I guess
as a midwife yourself, you would be hearing all sorts
of secondary advice or people on you know, both sides,
especially for a first time parent getting advice contradicting itself
(08:47):
all over the show.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh yeah, welcome to parenthood, even in the hospital, and
people say that to me, I did a lot of
work in the post natal, in the immediate post natal space,
so the first three to five days after people have
given birth, and that the biggest bed banker that we
would get. As it feels there's a lot of conflicting
advice and would you potentially could see you know, up
(09:11):
to five different midwives or nurses looking after you in
a twenty four hour period, and they're all going to
have slightly different ways of doing stuff, which is very,
very challenging. And I do have a lot of empathy
for people who go through that, and in saying that,
the advice that I would give you on day one
with your baby is different to what I would give
(09:32):
you one day five. So that does add to you know,
that feels like conflicting, but you know, actually it goes
with them.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
True, true, because no one's the same either, are they.
Each baby's going to have a different set of challenges
and each parent's going to have a different set of challenges.
Do you find that well, given that we are, we
seem to be having babies later. As you say, do
you think that control aspect, people are kind of googling
a lot more and trying to have a set plane
(10:03):
in their mind before they actually have child about a
specific way they're going to raise them or deal with them.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Absolutely, and I think social media has a massive part
to play in.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That, right.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And I think, you know, even as a midwife and
all that I knew, I mean, we only work for
the first in the first six weeks after having a baby,
that in all that I knew and all that I
was prepared, I still found it very overwhelming. And I
think partly that was to do with the social media
that I was consuming. Because everyone has a different piece
(10:35):
of advice, and everyone has a completely different piece of advice,
and all those people are so called experts, and if
you don't do it their way, then you're wrong and
you're gonna hurt your baby or you know, oh, you know.
It's just it's so intense, and as a mum, you
want to do the best thing for your child, and
(10:56):
they're all claiming that this is the best thing, and
so you know, on top of your already sleep deprived, right,
you have to figure out what you're.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Going to do.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh yes, and all the emotions flowing through you. Actually, Grace,
we've got to text through here you might be able
to answer it, says Hi, I had an emergency C section,
so no judgment, But do you think New Zealand women
are fully informed of the risks of a sea section
for baby in terms of long term effects on baby's health.
I find it's sad that C section is the rate
(11:26):
so much higher. I feel it's a magic experience in
so primal it should be a thing we have control of.
So do you think women are fully informed when it happens,
even if it's an emergency one.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Look, I think that midwaves and obstitutions do the best
that they can in that scenario, and they certainly tell
you a lot of the risks and they make you
sign consent forms to say that you understand what you're
going to do. But I think given the scenario of
an emergency C section, there's not you know, hours and
(12:00):
hours to chat about the pros and cons of the
whole thing. So you I feel like this is where
antenatal education is really important, where people you know, can
come to a great glass and they get to understand
what's involved in an actual surgery, what are the risks
to the mum, what are the risks to the baby?
And I also think exactly the same thing should be
(12:22):
true for a vaginal birth, because as much as we
think vaginal births are awesome and lots of the time they are,
there are certainly risks to you and your baby and
a vaginal birth as well. And we don't make parents
signed consents for a vaginal birth.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Make science.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
So I think in general, across the board, there could
be a lot more you know, education around both sides
and the risks and benefits.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Of both sides. Yes, yeah, thank you, So you can
text it if you don't want to go on your
nine two nine two. Grace would love to hear from
you today, or you can call a weight hundred eighty
ten eighty. We're discussing c sections at the moment, if
you've got any questions about those, or maybe an experience
that you went through that you want to share with
us on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And also
some of the things you had never told before you
(13:09):
became a grandparent or parent, the advice you've received would
have changed the way you did things if you were
told this piece of advice. Now, oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty we we're heading to the phones now
and we have Mark with us. High Mark.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
Good, I guy, I tell you very well.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So you've got a question for Grace.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
Well, actually I had well we had twins, and so
we were sort of advised to being a high risk pregnancy,
the best way was to go through and have a
sea section. But I just feel like back then we
probably didn't get enough on advice to you know, the
(13:49):
pros and pros and cons, and the biggest one being
that obviously the mother's milk didn't come through because she
hadn't gone into labor, so we were like five days
after the kid to be born before her milk actually
came through. So that was a long period of stress.
(14:12):
I feel for mum and she agrees with that, and
also for the kids because they're just not getting the
nutrient and everything that they needed at the time, and
being in the public hospital, it wasn't really you know,
it was really was only one nurse who said you
(14:35):
should go down the road and buy some milk to
make up really to feed your feed your baby. So
it was a very stressful periods and you just wonder
does that have any effect on the kids, you know,
going forward and that in that short little window of life.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So I'll let Grace answer this with twins, Twins is
obviously a very unique situation as well. Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So the reason why twins often are advised to be
delivered by a sea section is it depends on the
leading twins. So the twin that's coming out first, whether
they're head down or bottom down. So if they are
head down, then there is the potential that you could
have a vaginal birth for the first baby. If the
second baby is also hit down, then that baby should
(15:27):
also come out vaginally head down. If that second baby
is bottom down, then the doctors could hopefully manually turn
that baby so that it is head down to deliver it.
There are lots of risks to delivering babies who are
bottomed down or who are breached. Not impossible, but a
lot more risks. So in the scenario where there's a
(15:48):
baby who is head down first and then the second
baby is bottom down, there is the risk that you
could deliver the first baby by vaginally and then if
they can't turn the second baby, then you have to
god have a sea section for that baby, So you
don't want to have vaginal birth and a sea section
because a lot for your Yeah, so I'm not sure
(16:09):
and what your scenario was, but for whatever reason, they
decided that that the safest way for your babies to
be born was.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
That was very early on and we and we did
actually have a date. We didn't get to choo to
date as you but we had a date when you well,
we had to be in this area because we're you know,
rural close to the hospital two weeks prior to that
date just in case. Yeah. But also I think maybe potentially,
(16:39):
you know a lot of people think that the older
that we get, but potentially maybe that's why we're having
twins as well. There seems to be more set to
twins in the small little area we were where we
were in twenty ten, there were eleven sets to twins. Wow,
And it's just like and it was not was not ivy.
(16:59):
There was one couple that did IVS and but we
were what you would call, you know, mid dirties. Yeah,
so whords, Yeah, it was that's definitely our sort of
parents lifetime. When they were doing the same sort of scenario,
it's just not that's frequent.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, No, definitely, what do we get there seems to
be the more common twins now, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And what Mark was saying there Grace about the being
having a C section in the milk not coming through.
Do you do you think, as Mark said that going
down and getting the formula, that when I had my son,
I was in Jews, so I didn't have milk either
and I felt, unfortunately, was made to feel shame for
having to go and get formula.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Is that still the same, did you have that Mark massively?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, I personally think it.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Was so unfortunate. It was really unfortunate, and I feel
that it brought stress on my partner. And at the
end of the day, mum's happy. Kids are going to
be happy. It's simple, simple way for life that they're
feeding off mum. Then you know it's a game changer.
And I tell you what, within the twenty four hours
(18:13):
of bringing in some formula, the kids were way more
settled and so was Mum. And it doesn't mean that
it's going to be that way forever. And it's good
to get mum back on breast is best, is what
you're always told, but at the end of the day,
if they're not feeding, they're starving to death. That's like traumatic,
(18:34):
absolutely everyone.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It's so so tough, and certainly not everyone who has
a C section. Their milk is not necessarily delayed. So
that's not everybody's it's not everybody's experience, and there are
lots of reasons why it might be delayed and why
you might need formula. And I personally think that the
(18:57):
intense pro breastfeeding environment that we have, particularly in the hospitals,
is awful. They make you, you know that they don't
give we don't give formula to babies unless it's deemed
medically necessary. And even in that scenario where it's you know,
life saving, we make parents sign consent forms like they're
(19:20):
signing away they're giving them like you know.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Drugs or something exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, I just think the whole environment is it's already
so stressful and then adding that whole thing on top
of the air and making you feel bad about it,
and you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Just all it's just another stress. It's just another stress. Hey, Mark,
thank you for sharing your experience. The other kids doing
well now.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, teenagers fifteen year olds. We're doing well and
at the end of the day, you know, you can't
stand up kids in the lineup and go you had
breast milk, you know. Yeah, so no, there might be
little things that lead on to it. But hey, we
don't know everything, No, we don't. Mark.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Hey, thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank
you for being such a wonderful support for your wife
at that time.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To applaud you.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've got an
experience or a question for Grace, please do give us
a call or you can text through nine two nine two.
We'll just take a short break the Parenting Squad here
on the Weekend Collective. It's twenty six minutes past five,
News Talk S'DB twenty nine minutes past five. I'm Jess
with you through until six o'clock and the Parents Squad
hour on the Weekend Collective. We're chatting with midwife Grace Strange.
(20:32):
She's a midwife and founder of Anti Natal Co. And
we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
You can text through nine two nine two if you
have any questions around the C section aspect, but also
childbirth and the birthing process. I want to chat about
anti natal classes very soon as well, but we do
have Tessa on the line now, Hi Tessa.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Hello, Hi guys.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Hi, Hey, I wanted to share. So if there was
something that I wish I got told, sure, I've got
a ten months dog, So I would say the concept
of the fourth trimester. Have you talked about that yet today? No?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No, go for it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
What was your what was your experience?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
So my parents are similar to a huge amount of woman,
which is all these problems come up, you know when
you have a baby that sleep and feeding, and I
really think can be resolved with some background knowledge about
the idea of the fourth trimester, which is that humans
are a kind of mammal where we're born prematurely. All
babies are born prematurely, even full term ones. So when
(21:36):
they come out of the womb, they're still have a
high need on parents, and we put so much pressure
on ourselves because of societal norms to have this independent
newborn and newborns are not are meant to be codependent
on the parents and still as if they're in the
womb for the fourth trimester. The first few months out
(21:56):
of the the mum's body. Yeah, what's that understanding? You
can be a lot more patient and a lot more
kind of a lot more given to the experience a
bit more because I feel like over the years we've
developed this expectation for new mums that you put the
baby in the curb and they sleep on a schedule.
(22:19):
In any time these things don't work out, it it
all feels like our fault. It's not your fault. That's
not how they're designed.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
That's very interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting way to look
at it, Tessa. And this is coming off. If you
wish advice, you will wish you were given before you
gave birth. And so Tessa's talking about that fourth trimestic grace.
Will that be fair the pressure we put on ourselves
after we've given birth.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I think that we certainly need a lot more education
around the fourth trimester and what you know, early parenting
looks like I think lots of pregnant women, you know,
do a lot of research around you know, labor and
birth and all that kind of stuff, and really that's
probably like maximum twenty four hours of your life.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Whereas as because.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
You said, you then just get given this baby and
then you have to figure out what to do with
it and what's normal and what's not normal. And I
do think that we do get fed a lot around
exactly what you said, how they just you just feed
them and then you throw them in the cut and
they sleep for two hours or three hours, and then
you know, you go get your nails done.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It's just back to normal life. Ye, back to normal life.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It's totally not.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Everything changes in everything, and you changes, your hormones change,
as you said, your sleep changes, and you have to
feed this baby and look after this baby around the clock.
And the amount of tiny little decisions that you have
to make twenty four seven is exhausting.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
About am everything else?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, So Tessa, what was your experience like did you
discover this after having your first child?
Speaker 7 (23:56):
Yeah? I was floored by just by how hard it was.
I had a baby that wanted to be in contact
when you hours a day. She ended up having allergies
and so she was getting sick from my mail because
all this kind of stuff. But my two takeaways from
it was one, she's not broken. There's nothing wrong with her.
(24:16):
It's how we're trying to parent them that doesn't fit.
And everything got so much easier. I had the privilege
of being able to work around her. You know, I
was able to I didn't have to rush back to work.
So when I gave in to her niece, you know,
(24:37):
how do when she needed to be held better, when
she needed to be feed, the stress went away really.
But then the second takeaway was that that is easier
to do when you have support. The more support you have,
the more people that are looking after the mom, the
better the mom can look after the baby on the
baby's terms and not ridiculous, you know, societal constructs. If
(24:59):
you want to see how babies are evolved to be raised,
we have to go back or what was con system
for thousands of years and not just the things that
have changed on whim for the last couple of hundred
because you know, the last few hundred years are not
human history. That's just a very small time.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And I think that our Western culture particularly is very
you know, you know, very routine on babies and have
a lot of expectations on babies and how they should behave,
whereas if you look at Eastern Eastern cultures or you know,
anywhere else, they are so protective, you know, over this first,
you know the Asian cultures of the first forty days,
(25:40):
and you know, being in confinement where everyone just comes
around that mum and that baby and the mom doesn't
even get out of bed for that. You know, you're
doing true confinement for forty days, and so her whole
role is on, you know, nourishing and recovering herself from
birth and then giving that baby everything that it needs
in its transition into you know, the world. So I
(26:03):
totally agree with.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
You, Tess.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
They focus on codependence, not interdependence, where we need each
other and babies so much so that the word independence
shouldn't even be put out there for the first three years.
You know, they need us for everything.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, they sure do. Hey, Tessa, thank you very much
for sharing that.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It's very sorry to cut you off the Tessa. It's
it's I found it in my experience, and I want
to bring in the anti natal classes here, Grace, if
that's all good? So you run them, do you at
the moment?
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Antenna classes in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Ye, how do you feel about So? I don't know
what yours include, but when I went to anti natal classes,
it was it was all about pre birth and the
birth birthing process and what might happen and drugs and
you know what your partner can do, but not so
much about immediately after. Yes, so I very much went
(27:00):
through a shock factor where I was induced and had
had my son and then I was just literally left
alone overnight, you know, in the room, and I had
no milk, and then I had to sign the waiver
for the formula and I was you know, scolded and
told that I was I need to you know, express
and do better and all this stuff. But should there
(27:22):
be more of a focus now about that first well,
that fourth trimester that Tessa was talking about.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Absolutely, and I do think there has in general been
a really positive change in lots of intenna classes.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
To not just focus on late right.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, right, So I particularly we started our seven years ago,
and there was none of that when we started. And
that was a huge reason why I started classes. Was
firstly because I hated antenna classes pushing agendas on women
and making them feel bad for wanting an EPI dril
or needing an EPI dril, or like needing a C section,
and that they had failed. And then the second reason
(27:58):
I sated them was exactly that that there was very
limited education on what happened after you had baby, which is,
as I said before, a massive part of your life.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So yeah, yeah, did that answer a question.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yes, I'm just in shocked because I'm so relieved. I
mean that I'm talking eleven years ago I had my
son and there was nothing then. And it was even
at the point where I stayed in hospital four hours
and then were sent home because there was no after
birth unit facility or anything like that. And as a
first time parent, right, you don't know any better. You go, Okay,
(28:37):
I've been handed this human being to keep alive, and
I'll just head home. And you end up in this
pressure cooker of expecting yourself to know everything. And I
think that's quite scary, isn't it So overwhelming?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So in our internal classes at Antenatal Coat, we do
a lot of the birth stuff absolutely in terms of
covering everything that could happen, and I do it in
a way that I'm educating you and then your choice
decide how you would like to do that or how
it goes. And then in the post natal phase it's
you know, your your recovery. So Mum's recovery from birth,
what that's going to look like. When can she return
(29:15):
to exercise, What her post natal mental health may look like.
What are some ways in which you can help support her,
even the dads or the support people. What's their mental
health like, because certainly mental health perinatal mental health can
happen to both partners. How to prepare your relationship for
having a baby?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Huge one. Yeah, everything, it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is a big one.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Absolutely yeah. On the other side of the break, I
want to have a chat with you around introducing a
new baby to other children, siblings and pets. Will do
that very soon. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If
you've got a question for Grace, she is a midwife
and founder of the Anti Natal co and here to
take your calls for the next or twenty minutes or so,
oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or you can text
(29:57):
through nine two nine two. Also, what was the piece
of advice you wish you were given? We heard from
Tessa there about the fourth trimester? Is something you wish
that you knew before you became a parent, and some
advice you could pass on to people listening as I say, oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We're now twenty one
minutes away from six on news Talk S'B and I'm
(30:18):
Jess with you through until six. We've got Romance standing
by with in my day. But it's a pleasure for
the first time on the weekend Collective to have midwife
Grace Strange. She is a midwife and founder of Anti
Natal co. And we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to dial. Hi Poe, Hi, Hi, Hi, and.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Thank you for the program. Greg. Hey, I just wanted
to share I guess from as a dad and you know,
she and my experience of being in a childbirth. You know,
I first, he just wanted to say that. Now I've
got to give it up to the mounds out there
because I have six kids. Wow, I have six kids
(31:03):
and they were all the live via.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
The via the V.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Naturally naturally po Yes, but I'll.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Probably say that it didn't My experience wasn't that it
was natural. It was quite it was quite chaotic, as
I said. And so you know, my oldest daughter is seventeen.
But and then maybe I've got a younger child at
the moment, who's who's almost one so I've you know,
I've my experience with my seventeen has been quite different
(31:37):
than what my experience was my almost one year olders.
So I think I think it's improved so much in
terms of depression that we had experienced when seventeen years ago,
me and my wife wanted did our research. We did
go to nat or classes and things like that. But
seventeen years ago, we did feel that we were given,
(32:00):
you know, there was a bit of pressure on us
to do certain things and not to have a natural work,
so we had to go to the hospital. We wanted
to have a home birth, but we were sort of
told to go to hospital. So we ended up just
just doing that and and then just throughout that that
whole experience, you know, we did. I did feel like
(32:20):
we're you know, there was no pressure to to do
either the EPI dural, you know, there was the gas
at the time that that was sort of asked for us.
We were even asked, you know, to do things like
the vitamin K after the birth. I have to give
it up to my wife, who you know who if
you know, I supported her sort of goal through that
(32:43):
to have a natural birth.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, good on your Poe and seventeen to one. As
you say, you've seen quite quite a change in the
in the health system. How how do you manage six
kids though across that age range.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Well, well, the good thing is is that I had
been close together, so was seventeen, one is fifteen and fourteen,
and then I've had been quite quite late now, so
one is four tuning four and two and then one
doning one soon. So so I get a bit of
the older ones helping out a younger one. But like
(33:25):
what your previous caller said, for us, it's it's it's
a village thing. It's a it's a e thing. We
you know, our whole family comes together and it's part
of it as part of our family, you know. And
we were on a lot on that, and so we
were glad that when my wife was giving birth, we
(33:45):
just you know, we had both our parents and and
and brothers and sisters come and look after her.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
She could just rest.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Yeah, and I am yeah, And I understand that, you know,
we don't announce in our system. You know, that's not
something that a lot of us have access to, which
is very sad, it sure is.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And Poe, I want to applaud you for the support
that you gave your your wife and being there in
the booths because grace.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Are we finding that the.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Experience for dads is becoming a bit less scary, or
that there being a bit more forthright with it and
being involved.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Look, I think I think dads want to be involved.
I think, and I think part of internetal education is
helping them to be involved too, so, you know, letting
them know what's going to happen. They like to be
a little bit of control and a little bit of
understanding about what's going on with their Patterner often it's
way harder for the person watching. I don't know how
(34:47):
you thought about it, that you watching your partner going
through it then to say necessarily your partner going through it.
Obviously she's been through a lot and amazing her experience.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yeah, we were very lucky to go from those NEANEDO
classes because it gave us that ability to, uh, to
formulate our to formulate our plan you know, going into
that and so we needed that because there's you know,
so so many things happened during their birth process. So
(35:22):
that really worked for us and helped to you know,
to calm the emotions during quite a chaotic time, but
our first experience. Obviously for the first child, it's just
so much, you know, so much goes on, you know,
for for the mums, you know, emotionally, physically, Like I think,
I do agree when you mentioned earlier on there is
(35:42):
this there is this idea that we have that that
it is easy and then find out that it's harder.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
I think.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
Because and I put it down to you know, this
is the things we see on TV and stuff that
you know, the one minute and when I had this idea,
our sweet airs. So if it's ten minutes, it should
be fine, you know, she was even for two and
a half hours. Easier to talk about it now, but
once it's India and watching it go through, that was
(36:14):
very high. It was very hard for me.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Dad.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Absolutely well, Poe, thank you for calling and sharing your experience.
I really appreciate it, so does Grace and and our listeners.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Great, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Awesome, Thank you, Poe. It's jeez, it's nice, Grace to
hear a couple of dads calling in. Is that yeah,
engaging in this Before we take a break, I've just
got a text for you here, Grace. This is a
question for you. I start Midwiffery on Monday down in
Otago and was wondering if Grace had any advice for me.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Oh wow, yay, good work, Thank you so much, we
need you any advice.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Gosh, it's really for.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I didn't do it to anilated in England and in
my day, sixty to seventy percent of the of the
degree was practical, so a huge amount in the hospital.
So you're basically doing full time UNI and working essentially
full time for free as a student.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
So just look, it's tough. It's pretty full on.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
At have lots of friends around that you can talk
about all the things that you see, especially in those
first few years because it's you know, you see a
lot of things that you weren't quite expecting. But as
you get older, you get to see the reflip the
red flags and can can I kind of anticipate it's
going happened?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
But yet no, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
We really, I really encourage you just to keep going.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Stuck out at because it's brilliant. We need one the
film midways out there.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
As you say, there's a shortage, so it sounds like
no two days are the same.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
At least Grayea keeps you on your does.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Oh wonderful. All right, we've got time for a couple
more calls. I wait, hundred eighty teen age, We're going
to take a quick break though, ten minutes away from
six here on the weekend Collective news talks. He'd be
and we're chatting with midwife Gray Strange taking your calls.
I wait, hundred and eighty ten eighty, Hi there, Steve, Hi,
how are you good? Thanks? What's your comment?
Speaker 8 (38:04):
I was just wanting to talk to Grace. I had
my kids, and my kids in our twenty twenty six
and twenty four, but we had our first one. I
wonder what's your thoughts on parents deciding about where their
children should be born or not born. I guess the
reason I'm asking that my first child, we had no
difficulties with the pregnancy, and my son was born in
(38:27):
seven weeks early breach. He was seven pound six so
and really unwell, and Heed, we had them home. I
think we probably would have lost them. And I guess
at the time I didn't feel like I had or
we had the knowledge or to make the decern about
where we had our children at that time. Had things
changed in terms of the way people go about making
(38:50):
that decernin now.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I would like to think.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So, I think that so every every woman has a
birth plan chat with their LMC so their midway for
the archestraction at thirty six weeks, which obviously you didn't
make too if you heard your baby sim weeks certainly. Yeah,
So at this at this birth plan chat which everybody has,
that there is a discussion around where you'd like to deliver,
(39:16):
who you'd like to be in your room, where you're
gonna have vitamin K, whole bunch of things, where your
pain lap options might be, et cetera, et cetera, and
you get to choose. So you guys are the most
powerful people in the room always in terms of what
you decide to do. Nobody can force you to have
their baby your baby at the hospital. Nobody can force
you to have your baby at home. And so during
(39:38):
that chat and during your time with your ALMENC, so
you could have that chat with them, you know, at
thirty weeks or when you book with them if you
want to, you know, ten twelve weeks, and about where
they like to deliver, where they recommend that you should
deliver it, if you had any risk factors as to
whether if you deliver it at home, you know that
would be you know, you'd have some risk factors for that,
or you know best to deliver in the hospital. So yeah,
(40:00):
I mean the whole ALMC model that we have in
New Zealand is so wonderful in which women and their
partners and families work together in partnership with their LMC.
So everything, every single decision should be made together for
the best of you guys and the best outcome for
your baby.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
I guess.
Speaker 8 (40:21):
Yeah, that's the most important thing at the end of
the day, isn't it. If you've got if you've enough
time to be educated around like saying what the risk
collectors are, all those sort of things, then at and
I actually make sure that the children are born into
the world.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Well exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Hey, thank you, Steve. I do have to stop there.
We've got to get to the news. Thank you, Steve.
Thank you to everyone that's called Grace. Thanks for your time.
You've done awesome.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Oh thanks, thank you for having me, love to being here.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Pleasure. That's it for the week in collective. A big
thanks to my producer Tyra to all of our guests today.
Roman is standing by within my day have a wonderful evening,
New Zealand. Some one We're back.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, that's all. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen
live to news talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ab.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ant Together News Talk c e B Weekend Collective. Six
minutes past five, I'm Jess with you through until six
(00:33):
o'clock and it's my pleasure for the first time on
the Parents Squad to welcome midwife Grace Strange. Hi, Grace, Hello,
how are you very well? Thank you and thanks for
making time for us. Now, you're a midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. Can you tell us just a
bit about yourself and your background as being a midwife.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, so I've been a midwife for thirteen years in Auckland,
mostly a hospital based midwife, so we worked across the
whole spectrum of birth and post natal and anti natal
and then I've been running inten intenatal classes for about
seven years.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Wow. Wow, I want to get into the antenatal class
chat at some point this hour. Absolutely, And just before
we get into the chat itself, are you noticing still
a shortage of midwives? What's the landscape like?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh yeah, yep, definitely massive shortage of midwives. There's work
everywhere all over the country, so yeah, we need more.
If anyone wants to study.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We definitely do Yep, people are still having babies, absolutely,
they always will now. A great statistics from Auckland Hospital
show there's been a dramatic increase in women requesting sea
sections in recent years, but a drop in women actually
getting elective sea sections. Unfortunately. The numbers also show that
the amount of emergency sea sections has increased. Could this
(01:56):
be related and why are so many people asking for
sea sections?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So the sea section.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
So Orkland Hospital puts out a their statistics every year
for the last twenty years, and so this year is
the first year that they've shown that their sea section
rate is higher than their spontaneous vaginal birth rate. So
is a concerning stat for lots of people. Reasons why
(02:23):
this Maybe there's that Orkan Hospital, first and foremost is
a tertiary hospital, which means that they deal with the
most sick people, women and babies, so therefore higher chances
of having a sea section. But also my personal opinion
is that we're older. I'm thirty five and I had
just had my first baby last year, and we're all
(02:45):
we're all, you know, we're not in our early twenties
having babies anymore. So I think I personally think that
this has a huge impact on not saying that you
know women older women can't have lovely vaginal births, but
you know the rate of emergency sea sections is very high,
and so yeah, it could be a reason why is
because we're just we're old, we're geriatric. I'm geriatric thirty
(03:09):
five and I'm a geriatric pregnancy.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I had my son when I was thirty and they
mentioned geriatric to me and I was going, what on earth?
But just before we carry on eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
if you've got any questions for midwife Grace Strange around
not only the C section aspect of things, but I
want to know what are some of the things you
were never told before you became a grandparent or a
(03:34):
parent and would have changed the way you did things.
What advice do you wish that you'd been told, or
what advice would you give to your grandchildren or children
having kids?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Now?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or if you've got
any questions relating to parenting for Grace, we'd love to
hear from you all. Nineteen nine two, Now, Grace, what
are the statistics around do you have figures around how
many women are actually having them.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I do, so I'm only going off the Ugland hospital
ones because they have the best and have done a
best job at giving them. So in this report, they've
released the twenty twenty three stats which they released in
August last year, so they're the c section rate was
at forty four point six percent of all births. So
(04:22):
there was five seven hundred births at a hospital last year,
forty four point six percent of them were c sections
and only forty two point nine of them were spontaneous
vaginal births. Wow, okay, and so big, you know, big, big,
big change, big times being at more than more than
(04:44):
previous times. So with the with that statistic, twenty nine
point four percent of them were emergency and fifteen point
two percent of them were an elective. Now, if you
were a first time mum, then your chances of having
a C section were at forty eight point nine percent.
So the first time I'm giving birth last year in
(05:07):
twenty twenty three, sorry, you had almost a fifty percent
chance of having a c section. And this definitely was
reflected in my internet of classes.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So I met it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
With the girls after they've had their babies for their
first coffee group and I would say definitely at least
fifty percent of them are having C sections.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And why do you think that people are actually asking
for them more? Is it becoming I don't want to
say an easier option, but people perceiving it to be
the easier way because the recovery time seems to be
much longer.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
The recovery time can be much longer you are having,
you know, quite a full on abdominal surgery. However, if
you had a really awful rugged vaginal birth, you could
have lifelong recovery effects from that. So I think people
are requesting them because they like.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
To be in control. It could be a reason.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You know, we've had we're older, having babies older, so
you know, we've had these lovely careers that we've been
in charge of, and so you know, it's quite handy
to know the date and the time that your baby's
going to be falling. Also rask Also again we're having
babies older. Lots and lots and lots of people, including myself,
you know, needed reproductive assistance or IVF to get pregnant. Sure,
(06:27):
and so a elective sitey section again is a controlled
environment where you can can mostly control the outcome. There's
a lot less you know, up in the are of
how it's going to go. Sure, so yeah, I think, yeah,
I mean I personally, I know, I'm a midwife and
I have been to many births, but for me, I
(06:51):
had an elective site section, which is a very un
Midwifi thing to say and do.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I was gonna say that because midwives prefer naturlutely.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes, Okay, I'm like, I'm a I'm an enigma. I'm
not the I'm not your traditional midwife. But again, old,
I'm older. I had a real bit reproductive, you know,
assistance to get pregnant, and from all the thousands and
thousands of births that I've been to, that personally felt
like the.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Best choice for me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Sure, and I had I was able, you know, I
was d after by an obstrician, and so I was
able to choose that. Certainly, not everybody gets to choose that.
If you don't have a paid for obstetrician then and
you don't have a you know, you're likely to you're
less likely, sorry to get an elective sea section.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And i'd imagine too grace if someone's walking and saying
I want it born on the fourteenth of February because
that's Valentine's Day or whatever. You know, if you don't
have a really justified reason and resources are quite short,
the chances are you're probably not going to get what
you're asking for.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, And you also don't get control. So
as much as I on the date, sorry, as much
as I wanted a sea section, you don't get to
choose the fourteenth of February.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
That's the hospital's job.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To fair enough, to fair enough to oh wait, one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to have your
calls on this. Whether you've had an experience with a
C section yourself, what was it? Straightforward? Do you wish
that you'd had one or wish you hadn't? You can
text through to nine two nine two as well. Grace
is here to answer all parenting all range of parenting
questions for you this hour. And then another question, what
(08:27):
are some of the things you were never told before
you became a parent or a grandparent and would it
have changed the way you did things? Grace. I guess
as a midwife yourself, you would be hearing all sorts
of secondary advice or people on you know, both sides,
especially for a first time parent getting advice contradicting itself
(08:47):
all over the show.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh yeah, welcome to parenthood, even in the hospital, and
people say that to me, I did a lot of
work in the post natal, in the immediate post natal space,
so the first three to five days after people have
given birth, and that the biggest bed banker that we
would get. As it feels there's a lot of conflicting
advice and would you potentially could see you know, up
(09:11):
to five different midwives or nurses looking after you in
a twenty four hour period, and they're all going to
have slightly different ways of doing stuff, which is very,
very challenging. And I do have a lot of empathy
for people who go through that, and in saying that,
the advice that I would give you on day one
with your baby is different to what I would give
(09:32):
you one day five. So that does add to you know,
that feels like conflicting, but you know, actually it goes
with them.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
True, true, because no one's the same either, are they.
Each baby's going to have a different set of challenges
and each parent's going to have a different set of challenges.
Do you find that well, given that we are, we
seem to be having babies later. As you say, do
you think that control aspect, people are kind of googling
a lot more and trying to have a set plane
(10:03):
in their mind before they actually have child about a
specific way they're going to raise them or deal with them.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Absolutely, and I think social media has a massive part
to play in.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That, right.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And I think, you know, even as a midwife and
all that I knew, I mean, we only work for
the first in the first six weeks after having a baby,
that in all that I knew and all that I
was prepared, I still found it very overwhelming. And I
think partly that was to do with the social media
that I was consuming. Because everyone has a different piece
(10:35):
of advice, and everyone has a completely different piece of advice,
and all those people are so called experts, and if
you don't do it their way, then you're wrong and
you're gonna hurt your baby or you know, oh, you know.
It's just it's so intense, and as a mum, you
want to do the best thing for your child, and
(10:56):
they're all claiming that this is the best thing, and
so you know, on top of your already sleep deprived, right,
you have to figure out what you're.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Going to do.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh yes, and all the emotions flowing through you. Actually, Grace,
we've got to text through here you might be able
to answer it, says Hi, I had an emergency C section,
so no judgment, But do you think New Zealand women
are fully informed of the risks of a sea section
for baby in terms of long term effects on baby's health.
I find it's sad that C section is the rate
(11:26):
so much higher. I feel it's a magic experience in
so primal it should be a thing we have control of.
So do you think women are fully informed when it happens,
even if it's an emergency one.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Look, I think that midwaves and obstitutions do the best
that they can in that scenario, and they certainly tell
you a lot of the risks and they make you
sign consent forms to say that you understand what you're
going to do. But I think given the scenario of
an emergency C section, there's not you know, hours and
(12:00):
hours to chat about the pros and cons of the
whole thing. So you I feel like this is where
antenatal education is really important, where people you know, can
come to a great glass and they get to understand
what's involved in an actual surgery, what are the risks
to the mum, what are the risks to the baby?
And I also think exactly the same thing should be
(12:22):
true for a vaginal birth, because as much as we
think vaginal births are awesome and lots of the time they are,
there are certainly risks to you and your baby and
a vaginal birth as well. And we don't make parents
signed consents for a vaginal birth.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Make science.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
So I think in general, across the board, there could
be a lot more you know, education around both sides
and the risks and benefits.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Of both sides. Yes, yeah, thank you, So you can
text it if you don't want to go on your
nine two nine two. Grace would love to hear from
you today, or you can call a weight hundred eighty
ten eighty. We're discussing c sections at the moment, if
you've got any questions about those, or maybe an experience
that you went through that you want to share with
us on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And also
some of the things you had never told before you
(13:09):
became a grandparent or parent, the advice you've received would
have changed the way you did things if you were
told this piece of advice. Now, oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty we we're heading to the phones now
and we have Mark with us. High Mark.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
Good, I guy, I tell you very well.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So you've got a question for Grace.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
Well, actually I had well we had twins, and so
we were sort of advised to being a high risk pregnancy,
the best way was to go through and have a
sea section. But I just feel like back then we
probably didn't get enough on advice to you know, the
(13:49):
pros and pros and cons, and the biggest one being
that obviously the mother's milk didn't come through because she
hadn't gone into labor, so we were like five days
after the kid to be born before her milk actually
came through. So that was a long period of stress.
(14:12):
I feel for mum and she agrees with that, and
also for the kids because they're just not getting the
nutrient and everything that they needed at the time, and
being in the public hospital, it wasn't really you know,
it was really was only one nurse who said you
(14:35):
should go down the road and buy some milk to
make up really to feed your feed your baby. So
it was a very stressful periods and you just wonder
does that have any effect on the kids, you know,
going forward and that in that short little window of life.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So I'll let Grace answer this with twins, Twins is
obviously a very unique situation as well. Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So the reason why twins often are advised to be
delivered by a sea section is it depends on the
leading twins. So the twin that's coming out first, whether
they're head down or bottom down. So if they are
head down, then there is the potential that you could
have a vaginal birth for the first baby. If the
second baby is also hit down, then that baby should
(15:27):
also come out vaginally head down. If that second baby
is bottom down, then the doctors could hopefully manually turn
that baby so that it is head down to deliver it.
There are lots of risks to delivering babies who are
bottomed down or who are breached. Not impossible, but a
lot more risks. So in the scenario where there's a
(15:48):
baby who is head down first and then the second
baby is bottom down, there is the risk that you
could deliver the first baby by vaginally and then if
they can't turn the second baby, then you have to
god have a sea section for that baby, So you
don't want to have vaginal birth and a sea section
because a lot for your Yeah, so I'm not sure
(16:09):
and what your scenario was, but for whatever reason, they
decided that that the safest way for your babies to
be born was.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
That was very early on and we and we did
actually have a date. We didn't get to choo to
date as you but we had a date when you well,
we had to be in this area because we're you know,
rural close to the hospital two weeks prior to that
date just in case. Yeah. But also I think maybe potentially,
(16:39):
you know a lot of people think that the older
that we get, but potentially maybe that's why we're having
twins as well. There seems to be more set to
twins in the small little area we were where we
were in twenty ten, there were eleven sets to twins. Wow,
And it's just like and it was not was not ivy.
(16:59):
There was one couple that did IVS and but we
were what you would call, you know, mid dirties. Yeah,
so whords, Yeah, it was that's definitely our sort of
parents lifetime. When they were doing the same sort of scenario,
it's just not that's frequent.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, No, definitely, what do we get there seems to
be the more common twins now, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And what Mark was saying there Grace about the being
having a C section in the milk not coming through.
Do you do you think, as Mark said that going
down and getting the formula, that when I had my son,
I was in Jews, so I didn't have milk either
and I felt, unfortunately, was made to feel shame for
having to go and get formula.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Is that still the same, did you have that Mark massively?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, I personally think it.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Was so unfortunate. It was really unfortunate, and I feel
that it brought stress on my partner. And at the
end of the day, mum's happy. Kids are going to
be happy. It's simple, simple way for life that they're
feeding off mum. Then you know it's a game changer.
And I tell you what, within the twenty four hours
(18:13):
of bringing in some formula, the kids were way more
settled and so was Mum. And it doesn't mean that
it's going to be that way forever. And it's good
to get mum back on breast is best, is what
you're always told, but at the end of the day,
if they're not feeding, they're starving to death. That's like traumatic,
(18:34):
absolutely everyone.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It's so so tough, and certainly not everyone who has
a C section. Their milk is not necessarily delayed. So
that's not everybody's it's not everybody's experience, and there are
lots of reasons why it might be delayed and why
you might need formula. And I personally think that the
(18:57):
intense pro breastfeeding environment that we have, particularly in the hospitals,
is awful. They make you, you know that they don't
give we don't give formula to babies unless it's deemed
medically necessary. And even in that scenario where it's you know,
life saving, we make parents sign consent forms like they're
(19:20):
signing away they're giving them like you know.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Drugs or something exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, I just think the whole environment is it's already
so stressful and then adding that whole thing on top
of the air and making you feel bad about it,
and you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Just all it's just another stress. It's just another stress. Hey, Mark,
thank you for sharing your experience. The other kids doing
well now.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, teenagers fifteen year olds. We're doing well and
at the end of the day, you know, you can't
stand up kids in the lineup and go you had
breast milk, you know. Yeah, so no, there might be
little things that lead on to it. But hey, we
don't know everything, No, we don't. Mark.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Hey, thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank
you for being such a wonderful support for your wife
at that time.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To applaud you.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've got an
experience or a question for Grace, please do give us
a call or you can text through nine two nine two.
We'll just take a short break the Parenting Squad here
on the Weekend Collective. It's twenty six minutes past five,
News Talk S'DB twenty nine minutes past five. I'm Jess
with you through until six o'clock and the Parents Squad
hour on the Weekend Collective. We're chatting with midwife Grace Strange.
(20:32):
She's a midwife and founder of Anti Natal Co. And
we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
You can text through nine two nine two if you
have any questions around the C section aspect, but also
childbirth and the birthing process. I want to chat about
anti natal classes very soon as well, but we do
have Tessa on the line now, Hi Tessa.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Hello, Hi guys.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Hi, Hey, I wanted to share. So if there was
something that I wish I got told, sure, I've got
a ten months dog, So I would say the concept
of the fourth trimester. Have you talked about that yet today? No?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No, go for it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
What was your what was your experience?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
So my parents are similar to a huge amount of woman,
which is all these problems come up, you know when
you have a baby that sleep and feeding, and I
really think can be resolved with some background knowledge about
the idea of the fourth trimester, which is that humans
are a kind of mammal where we're born prematurely. All
babies are born prematurely, even full term ones. So when
(21:36):
they come out of the womb, they're still have a
high need on parents, and we put so much pressure
on ourselves because of societal norms to have this independent
newborn and newborns are not are meant to be codependent
on the parents and still as if they're in the
womb for the fourth trimester. The first few months out
(21:56):
of the the mum's body. Yeah, what's that understanding? You
can be a lot more patient and a lot more
kind of a lot more given to the experience a
bit more because I feel like over the years we've
developed this expectation for new mums that you put the
baby in the curb and they sleep on a schedule.
(22:19):
In any time these things don't work out, it it
all feels like our fault. It's not your fault. That's
not how they're designed.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
That's very interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting way to look
at it, Tessa. And this is coming off. If you
wish advice, you will wish you were given before you
gave birth. And so Tessa's talking about that fourth trimestic grace.
Will that be fair the pressure we put on ourselves
after we've given birth.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I think that we certainly need a lot more education
around the fourth trimester and what you know, early parenting
looks like I think lots of pregnant women, you know,
do a lot of research around you know, labor and
birth and all that kind of stuff, and really that's
probably like maximum twenty four hours of your life.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Whereas as because.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
You said, you then just get given this baby and
then you have to figure out what to do with
it and what's normal and what's not normal. And I
do think that we do get fed a lot around
exactly what you said, how they just you just feed
them and then you throw them in the cut and
they sleep for two hours or three hours, and then
you know, you go get your nails done.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It's just back to normal life. Ye, back to normal life.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It's totally not.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Everything changes in everything, and you changes, your hormones change,
as you said, your sleep changes, and you have to
feed this baby and look after this baby around the clock.
And the amount of tiny little decisions that you have
to make twenty four seven is exhausting.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
About am everything else?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, So Tessa, what was your experience like did you
discover this after having your first child?
Speaker 7 (23:56):
Yeah? I was floored by just by how hard it was.
I had a baby that wanted to be in contact
when you hours a day. She ended up having allergies
and so she was getting sick from my mail because
all this kind of stuff. But my two takeaways from
it was one, she's not broken. There's nothing wrong with her.
(24:16):
It's how we're trying to parent them that doesn't fit.
And everything got so much easier. I had the privilege
of being able to work around her. You know, I
was able to I didn't have to rush back to work.
So when I gave in to her niece, you know,
(24:37):
how do when she needed to be held better, when
she needed to be feed, the stress went away really.
But then the second takeaway was that that is easier
to do when you have support. The more support you have,
the more people that are looking after the mom, the
better the mom can look after the baby on the
baby's terms and not ridiculous, you know, societal constructs. If
(24:59):
you want to see how babies are evolved to be raised,
we have to go back or what was con system
for thousands of years and not just the things that
have changed on whim for the last couple of hundred
because you know, the last few hundred years are not
human history. That's just a very small time.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And I think that our Western culture particularly is very
you know, you know, very routine on babies and have
a lot of expectations on babies and how they should behave,
whereas if you look at Eastern Eastern cultures or you know,
anywhere else, they are so protective, you know, over this first,
you know the Asian cultures of the first forty days,
(25:40):
and you know, being in confinement where everyone just comes
around that mum and that baby and the mom doesn't
even get out of bed for that. You know, you're
doing true confinement for forty days, and so her whole
role is on, you know, nourishing and recovering herself from
birth and then giving that baby everything that it needs
in its transition into you know, the world. So I
(26:03):
totally agree with.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
You, Tess.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
They focus on codependence, not interdependence, where we need each
other and babies so much so that the word independence
shouldn't even be put out there for the first three years.
You know, they need us for everything.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, they sure do. Hey, Tessa, thank you very much
for sharing that.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It's very sorry to cut you off the Tessa. It's
it's I found it in my experience, and I want
to bring in the anti natal classes here, Grace, if
that's all good? So you run them, do you at
the moment?
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Antenna classes in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Ye, how do you feel about So? I don't know
what yours include, but when I went to anti natal classes,
it was it was all about pre birth and the
birth birthing process and what might happen and drugs and
you know what your partner can do, but not so
much about immediately after. Yes, so I very much went
(27:00):
through a shock factor where I was induced and had
had my son and then I was just literally left
alone overnight, you know, in the room, and I had
no milk, and then I had to sign the waiver
for the formula and I was you know, scolded and
told that I was I need to you know, express
and do better and all this stuff. But should there
(27:22):
be more of a focus now about that first well,
that fourth trimester that Tessa was talking about.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Absolutely, and I do think there has in general been
a really positive change in lots of intenna classes.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
To not just focus on late right.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, right, So I particularly we started our seven years ago,
and there was none of that when we started. And
that was a huge reason why I started classes. Was
firstly because I hated antenna classes pushing agendas on women
and making them feel bad for wanting an EPI dril
or needing an EPI dril, or like needing a C section,
and that they had failed. And then the second reason
(27:58):
I sated them was exactly that that there was very
limited education on what happened after you had baby, which is,
as I said before, a massive part of your life.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So yeah, yeah, did that answer a question.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yes, I'm just in shocked because I'm so relieved. I
mean that I'm talking eleven years ago I had my
son and there was nothing then. And it was even
at the point where I stayed in hospital four hours
and then were sent home because there was no after
birth unit facility or anything like that. And as a
first time parent, right, you don't know any better. You go, Okay,
(28:37):
I've been handed this human being to keep alive, and
I'll just head home. And you end up in this
pressure cooker of expecting yourself to know everything. And I
think that's quite scary, isn't it So overwhelming?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So in our internal classes at Antenatal Coat, we do
a lot of the birth stuff absolutely in terms of
covering everything that could happen, and I do it in
a way that I'm educating you and then your choice
decide how you would like to do that or how
it goes. And then in the post natal phase it's
you know, your your recovery. So Mum's recovery from birth,
what that's going to look like. When can she return
(29:15):
to exercise, What her post natal mental health may look like.
What are some ways in which you can help support her,
even the dads or the support people. What's their mental
health like, because certainly mental health perinatal mental health can
happen to both partners. How to prepare your relationship for
having a baby?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Huge one. Yeah, everything, it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is a big one.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Absolutely yeah. On the other side of the break, I
want to have a chat with you around introducing a
new baby to other children, siblings and pets. Will do
that very soon. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If
you've got a question for Grace, she is a midwife
and founder of the Anti Natal co and here to
take your calls for the next or twenty minutes or so,
oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or you can text
(29:57):
through nine two nine two. Also, what was the piece
of advice you wish you were given? We heard from
Tessa there about the fourth trimester? Is something you wish
that you knew before you became a parent, and some
advice you could pass on to people listening as I say, oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We're now twenty one
minutes away from six on news Talk S'B and I'm
(30:18):
Jess with you through until six. We've got Romance standing
by with in my day. But it's a pleasure for
the first time on the weekend Collective to have midwife
Grace Strange. She is a midwife and founder of Anti
Natal co. And we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to dial. Hi Poe, Hi, Hi, Hi, and.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Thank you for the program. Greg. Hey, I just wanted
to share I guess from as a dad and you know,
she and my experience of being in a childbirth. You know,
I first, he just wanted to say that. Now I've
got to give it up to the mounds out there
because I have six kids. Wow, I have six kids
(31:03):
and they were all the live via.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
The via the V.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Naturally naturally po Yes, but I'll.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Probably say that it didn't My experience wasn't that it
was natural. It was quite it was quite chaotic, as
I said. And so you know, my oldest daughter is seventeen.
But and then maybe I've got a younger child at
the moment, who's who's almost one so I've you know,
I've my experience with my seventeen has been quite different
(31:37):
than what my experience was my almost one year olders.
So I think I think it's improved so much in
terms of depression that we had experienced when seventeen years ago,
me and my wife wanted did our research. We did
go to nat or classes and things like that. But
seventeen years ago, we did feel that we were given,
(32:00):
you know, there was a bit of pressure on us
to do certain things and not to have a natural work,
so we had to go to the hospital. We wanted
to have a home birth, but we were sort of
told to go to hospital. So we ended up just
just doing that and and then just throughout that that
whole experience, you know, we did. I did feel like
(32:20):
we're you know, there was no pressure to to do
either the EPI dural, you know, there was the gas
at the time that that was sort of asked for us.
We were even asked, you know, to do things like
the vitamin K after the birth. I have to give
it up to my wife, who you know who if
you know, I supported her sort of goal through that
(32:43):
to have a natural birth.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, good on your Poe and seventeen to one. As
you say, you've seen quite quite a change in the
in the health system. How how do you manage six
kids though across that age range.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Well, well, the good thing is is that I had
been close together, so was seventeen, one is fifteen and fourteen,
and then I've had been quite quite late now, so
one is four tuning four and two and then one
doning one soon. So so I get a bit of
the older ones helping out a younger one. But like
(33:25):
what your previous caller said, for us, it's it's it's
a village thing. It's a it's a e thing. We
you know, our whole family comes together and it's part
of it as part of our family, you know. And
we were on a lot on that, and so we
were glad that when my wife was giving birth, we
(33:45):
just you know, we had both our parents and and
and brothers and sisters come and look after her.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
She could just rest.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Yeah, and I am yeah, And I understand that, you know,
we don't announce in our system. You know, that's not
something that a lot of us have access to, which
is very sad, it sure is.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And Poe, I want to applaud you for the support
that you gave your your wife and being there in
the booths because grace.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Are we finding that the.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Experience for dads is becoming a bit less scary, or
that there being a bit more forthright with it and
being involved.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Look, I think I think dads want to be involved.
I think, and I think part of internetal education is
helping them to be involved too, so, you know, letting
them know what's going to happen. They like to be
a little bit of control and a little bit of
understanding about what's going on with their Patterner often it's
way harder for the person watching. I don't know how
(34:47):
you thought about it, that you watching your partner going
through it then to say necessarily your partner going through it.
Obviously she's been through a lot and amazing her experience.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yeah, we were very lucky to go from those NEANEDO
classes because it gave us that ability to, uh, to
formulate our to formulate our plan you know, going into
that and so we needed that because there's you know,
so so many things happened during their birth process. So
(35:22):
that really worked for us and helped to you know,
to calm the emotions during quite a chaotic time, but
our first experience. Obviously for the first child, it's just
so much, you know, so much goes on, you know,
for for the mums, you know, emotionally, physically, Like I think,
I do agree when you mentioned earlier on there is
(35:42):
this there is this idea that we have that that
it is easy and then find out that it's harder.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
I think.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
Because and I put it down to you know, this
is the things we see on TV and stuff that
you know, the one minute and when I had this idea,
our sweet airs. So if it's ten minutes, it should
be fine, you know, she was even for two and
a half hours. Easier to talk about it now, but
once it's India and watching it go through, that was
(36:14):
very high. It was very hard for me.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Dad.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Absolutely well, Poe, thank you for calling and sharing your experience.
I really appreciate it, so does Grace and and our listeners.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Great, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Awesome, Thank you, Poe. It's jeez, it's nice, Grace to
hear a couple of dads calling in. Is that yeah,
engaging in this Before we take a break, I've just
got a text for you here, Grace. This is a
question for you. I start Midwiffery on Monday down in
Otago and was wondering if Grace had any advice for me.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Oh wow, yay, good work, Thank you so much, we
need you any advice.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Gosh, it's really for.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I didn't do it to anilated in England and in
my day, sixty to seventy percent of the of the
degree was practical, so a huge amount in the hospital.
So you're basically doing full time UNI and working essentially
full time for free as a student.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
So just look, it's tough. It's pretty full on.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
At have lots of friends around that you can talk
about all the things that you see, especially in those
first few years because it's you know, you see a
lot of things that you weren't quite expecting. But as
you get older, you get to see the reflip the
red flags and can can I kind of anticipate it's
going happened?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
But yet no, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
We really, I really encourage you just to keep going.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Stuck out at because it's brilliant. We need one the
film midways out there.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
As you say, there's a shortage, so it sounds like
no two days are the same.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
At least Grayea keeps you on your does.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Oh wonderful. All right, we've got time for a couple
more calls. I wait, hundred eighty teen age, We're going
to take a quick break though, ten minutes away from
six here on the weekend Collective news talks. He'd be
and we're chatting with midwife Gray Strange taking your calls.
I wait, hundred and eighty ten eighty, Hi there, Steve, Hi,
how are you good? Thanks? What's your comment?
Speaker 8 (38:04):
I was just wanting to talk to Grace. I had
my kids, and my kids in our twenty twenty six
and twenty four, but we had our first one. I
wonder what's your thoughts on parents deciding about where their
children should be born or not born. I guess the
reason I'm asking that my first child, we had no
difficulties with the pregnancy, and my son was born in
(38:27):
seven weeks early breach. He was seven pound six so
and really unwell, and Heed, we had them home. I
think we probably would have lost them. And I guess
at the time I didn't feel like I had or
we had the knowledge or to make the decern about
where we had our children at that time. Had things
changed in terms of the way people go about making
(38:50):
that decernin now.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I would like to think.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So, I think that so every every woman has a
birth plan chat with their LMC so their midway for
the archestraction at thirty six weeks, which obviously you didn't
make too if you heard your baby sim weeks certainly. Yeah,
So at this at this birth plan chat which everybody has,
that there is a discussion around where you'd like to deliver,
(39:16):
who you'd like to be in your room, where you're
gonna have vitamin K, whole bunch of things, where your
pain lap options might be, et cetera, et cetera, and
you get to choose. So you guys are the most
powerful people in the room always in terms of what
you decide to do. Nobody can force you to have
their baby your baby at the hospital. Nobody can force
you to have your baby at home. And so during
(39:38):
that chat and during your time with your ALMENC, so
you could have that chat with them, you know, at
thirty weeks or when you book with them if you
want to, you know, ten twelve weeks, and about where
they like to deliver, where they recommend that you should
deliver it, if you had any risk factors as to
whether if you deliver it at home, you know that
would be you know, you'd have some risk factors for that,
or you know best to deliver in the hospital. So yeah,
(40:00):
I mean the whole ALMC model that we have in
New Zealand is so wonderful in which women and their
partners and families work together in partnership with their LMC.
So everything, every single decision should be made together for
the best of you guys and the best outcome for
your baby.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
I guess.
Speaker 8 (40:21):
Yeah, that's the most important thing at the end of
the day, isn't it. If you've got if you've enough
time to be educated around like saying what the risk
collectors are, all those sort of things, then at and
I actually make sure that the children are born into
the world.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Well exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Hey, thank you, Steve. I do have to stop there.
We've got to get to the news. Thank you, Steve.
Thank you to everyone that's called Grace. Thanks for your time.
You've done awesome.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Oh thanks, thank you for having me, love to being here.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Pleasure. That's it for the week in collective. A big
thanks to my producer Tyra to all of our guests today.
Roman is standing by within my day have a wonderful evening,
New Zealand. Some one We're back.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, that's all. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen
live to news talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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