September 14, 2024 • 34 mins
Many parents have grown more hesitant when it comes to posting pictures of their children online.
The conversation is growing around the dangers of sharing photos and information publicly.
Parenting expert Holly Brooker joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss this and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
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Speaker 3 (00:29):
He comed out step the.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Liver cons.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Area. No no, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beveridge and if you've missed any of the
previous hours our Property show, the one roof radio show
with the Ashley Church talking about whether the exciting days
of the market will ever return quit a fascinating discussion actually,
and also our panel or the hour before that, Bridget Morton,
(00:57):
Mark Kreisel. You can check it out if you've missed
it weary podcasts, I would suggest going to iHeartRadio and
just looking for the Weekend Collective. But now for the
Parent Squad, which is right now. We've got a new
guest in the studio and she is here courtesy of
the Parenting Place. She's a parenting expert and online safety advocate.
So if you're a parent, and as I'm discovering, not
(01:19):
quite yet because we managed to hold them off on
the old social media a little bit. But we're going
to talk about digital safety, the current digital landscape and
if you've got any concerns, we'd love to have your calls,
or if you've got an opinion you'd like to express,
you can give us a call on No. Eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. You can text on nine two nine two.
But enough of that, because my expert is Holly Brooker. Hello, Holly,
(01:40):
how are you going good?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm pretty good? So tell us because you're a new
guest on the show, and you come to us courtesy
of the Parenting Place, who are familiar to our audience
with Dave Atkinson and Jenny Jenny Hale, what's your bag?
Tell us about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I have big boots to fill today because Dave and
Genny normally cover the stot. They are amazing piece of cake. Yeah,
so I do. I work with Parenting Place, but I
also run an advocacy campaign called me Sense, and we've
been advocating for I guess regulation around online harm for
young people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You're advocating for regulation, and so what is the landscape
right now and what do you want to see?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Well, I guess one of the primary things that we've
been advocating for is I'm just a little bit mindful
of our audience right now. But really it's essentially around
illegal content that's deemed illegal, abdictionable under the film's videos, classifications,
publications Act.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Every parent's worst nightmare.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Basically, the government has a filter and it hasn't been
performing very well, and so we've been advocating for some
changes with the tech and so that's kind of actually
in play at the moment. That's been really great. We've
also been looking recently at some other things around.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, because well we don't need to get into all
on the nitty gritty of it, but the concerns are
what kids are sharing online and where it's going. And
actually just a quick question, do you think who's this
is who's better equipped to understand how the internet works?
Because I'm wondering whether the kids are actually no bit
more about it than their parents do. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So onto it? Whenever I have some kind of tickets here,
I go straight to my son thirteen.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What do you say my windows won't log off or something?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Help your mother out? Yeah, Oh, they're just they're smart,
they know how it works. Yep, there, onto it. But
I think you know, back to your point about online harm,
we don't have regulation and place in New Zealand. We
don't have any kind of regulation of the industry, so
you know, the government would say it's on parents to
keep their kids safe. So that's a huge taking.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Actually, yeah, I've got I've got a couple of pet
peeves I'm going to mention to you, but tell us.
So it's one thing to be passionate about the stuff.
So how do you you end up working with the
Parenting Place and being involved in this sphere. What's a
little bit more about you?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh, it's a great question. So I've been working with
Parenting Place for about five years now. I have I
guess I grew up in an environment. I grew up
in South Auckland and then up to fangre and I
you know, you know, experience some childhood trauma and have
seen the power of the strong family unit, and I've
seen the impacts of dysfunctional family units. So I became
(04:07):
a high school teacher. I worked in South aauk Cloud.
I absolutely loved it. Became a mum and changed careers
and moved into PR and comms and yeah, through that
time of becoming a parent, just realized how important the
role was of being a parent and being educated to
do the job as well as I could. You know,
there's no such thing as a perfect parent, but I
really love what parenting plays through in terms of supporting
(04:28):
fun around the country wherever they're at. So I've been
really invested.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In an amazing resource, and in fact, we use They've
got a contract when you give your kid your first
their first phone, they've got a contract that you can
adapt for your own purposes. But it's about the rules,
which I must say, to my shame that my wife
did say to me the other day. You know what,
we have to get those contracts out and see what
they're actually signed up to, because they are so good
(04:53):
at they're so good at just give an inch, take
a mile. Yeah, because and the.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Problem is it happens so quickly, doesn't it a little
bit and then all of a sudden you're like, wow,
what's happening?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, because also I think the trick is because they're
not just entertainment devices, they're not just social media devices.
They are I just want to watch this video on
this dance that I want to learn, and I sort
of think that sounds reasonable, but it's just the inability
to keep tabs on it because it's it's not exactly
(05:25):
a laptop, which is sitting on the desk you put
up for them in the lounge. You can see what
they're doing. It's it's because the phone is everything. They
say to me or Dad, you're on your phone. I'm like, well,
I'm reading the New Zealand. Hell right now, honey, do
you want to come and read the same articles. That
is one of the problems, isn't it that they are
such amazing tools. Phones?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
They are, and there's so much great stuff on there,
and there's so much to keep us entertained. I had
a similar thing with my son this afternoon. He looked
up something that I said he could look up, and
ten minutes later I left the room. He was on
the laud. He's in the dining room.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Sorry, how old is he?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Can?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I asks thirteen?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Similar came back and he was then he was looking
at something else. He said, hey, buddy, what are you doing.
He told me it was totally fine what he was doing.
But I said, oh, man, it's so easy to go
down the rabbit warren. When you go online, you look
at one thing and then nick minute you're looking at
all these other different things. And he said yeah, yeah,
and so yeah, it's it's time to turn it off
because it's so easy to lose two three hours online.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Have you got that out? Have you got that sort
of pattern of behavior where you can say them, hey, buddy,
I think it's time to turn it off. And you
don't get much pushback, or I do.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
But I boundaries are really we talk a lot about
tech in our family, and I think family, you know,
your family values around tech is pretty important to talk
about regularly, and we do have some quite fin boundaries
in place, and so I don't. I actually don't get
much pushback, and I find that actually really helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Are you quite? If I saw you in action, would
be like, Wow, she's really strict. She's awesome.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I mean, my mum would say I'm a bit soft,
but no, I would say that I'm probably on the
I'm on the stricter side.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Mind your mum not even not understand what you're trying
to manage with devices. But I'm guessing you're quite young.
You mum might be quite young too.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So she was, she was a young mum. She's been
she's actually been listening to the Anxious Generation with Jonathan Hayte, recently,
so she's on board with the online the online stuff,
and that's been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Hey, So if you've got any questions and you'd like
to join the conversation, we'd love to hear from you
on or one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text
nine to nine two. There's one thing I just wanted
to ask you about now. I've heard some conversations about
this this week. So in Australia there's a talk there's
talk going on about regulating the age which kids can
(07:39):
actually have a social media account, and I've heard I
heard some arguments which I one hundred percent disagreed with.
Somebody was saying, oh, well, it doesn't matter if you
make it illegal for the kids, because then dad will
just get a social media account and let their son
or daughter access it. But to me, I would imagine
that there are many parents who are crying out for this,
(08:00):
who would say hellelujah, because then you've got that you know, honey,
it's actually not a it's not even legal for you
to have this account, which is sort of like full
stop as opposed to I don't want you to have
a mobile phone or sorry, I don't want you to
have a Facebook account because say Mark Zuckerbird doesn't want
(08:20):
his kids to have one until they're fifteen. They go,
they snooze over. But do you think that there's room
for the government to be I mean, obviously you want
more legislation around the sort of content and policing what
kids are sticking online, and you know the rules against
people exploiting that. But what are you with your own
personal opinion? I guess on government legislating you can't have
(08:42):
a social media account till you're fifteen or something or
fourteen or whatever.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, I think that you're right that I think you know,
one of the things that parents are most concerned about.
We see this with our family coaching at Parenting Place,
and we see it with the State of the Nation
Parenting survey that comes out every year to seventy five
percent appearance are most concerned about screen time and what
their kids are doing online. So parents do care about
this a lot, and I think that right to say
that when if we can have some kind of parameter
(09:08):
around actually it's you can't the government's is or there's
a rule that you can't go on to succeed for
good reason. That does give you a bit more ammunition
when you're a parent trying to deal with the pushback,
because kids do push back, it's normal, but it kind
of also lifts the you know, the age at the
moment is thirteen, but I here have plenty of kids
are legal age.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Or is that the policy of Facebook and Instagram?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Is the policy of Facebook and Instagram and TikTok what
have you? Yep, So I think that, you know, I
think we have a real problem with social media. There's
a lot of harmful content on there. On there, there's
a lot of harmful content online. It's the Internet's you know,
designed for adults, and we should put mil wises in
place to protect children. I really do think that we
should lift the age.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, and if you're listening, I mean, what are your
biggest concerns about your kids? I'll tell you one of
my gripes, So my one of my daughters, because obviously
we're in a household. Usually your kids' phones. I would
just guess, I'd say many people's children's devices are the
hand me down. So you've you've moved on from the
Apple whatever it is, and you've given them your old Apple.
(10:11):
I'm a I'm a Google Android guy, and the thing
that grinds my gears big time, and I loath the
Apple for this is I can keep an eye on
one daughter's phone because I'm Android and she's on my
old Android. My wife also because she can get the
app which Google will allow an Apple person to have
(10:32):
the app to keep an eye on my daughter's I
on her Android. Use I as an Apple person as sorry,
as an Android person, I can't see anything about what
my other daughter is doing because it's Apple and Apples
suck because they don't allow Android parents to keep an
eye on their Apple kids.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Yes, that's definitely a really tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And I thought you were going to tell me I
could actually something.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I just go with Apple. Why would you have an Android?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Because Apple is the death star of bloody tech. They
suck you in and they don't let you out.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
I have, I have differently. Yeah, I've definitely heard androids
better in terms of parental safety controls for kids as well.
So I think you're onto something there.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh I am, So Apple does suck? See producers out
in the studio there? Yeah, there we are. They were
looking at me in an outrage sort of thing that
I've bagged the Apple, get the Android but I mean
that I'm surprised that there isn't more cooperation on something
so simple as parental control.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
So I've recently been working with safe Surfer, who's a
family filtering company based in New Zealand and they operated
around the world. But they've just done this amazing They've
launched a phone with Samsung. It's called the Kids Safe Smartphone.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Dot I'm writing this down kids.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Sorry kids Safephone dot Io and it's a new smartphone
that's just come onto the markets, the you know, the
safest kids phone that you can get, and it's flip
and awesome. It has just calls and texts and as
the parent, you are in control of the app store.
You can you can download the apps that you want
your child to have, like Team Reach or whatever it is,
and a parent dashboard and you'll be notified of any
(12:02):
kind of, you know, dodgy behavior that's going on. But
it has really good, robust filtering. It's that's it's very
very difficult, maybe impossible to hack around. It's got knocks
and all these high tech.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Can I say, Can I say if it's going to
be cynical, I would say that sounds like the least
cool phone a kid can have then.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Or does it look like that's why it's great because
it's just it's a regular smartphone, but it's been dialed
right back to be really simple calls and texts and you,
as the parent, decide what apps you want, you have
you're trying to have when they are ready.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Kids safe. It's a kids safe phone phone and it's
got a website even in New Zealand. I think it
is a kids safe phone because actually that is good
news for I don't want to be too hard on Apple. No, yeah,
actually you know what, I do want to be hard
on Apple. Get track together, but it is it is
good news I think because a lot of parents they
(12:56):
either had to get their phone kids a dumb phone
and the.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Kids are i mean just embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
The other thing is as well, is that if if
you don't let your kids have some sort of modernish device,
there is a level of isolation that they're going to
suffer because they're one of a handful of kids you
don't have a decent phone.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Is that is this something I think as well? With
a dumb phone, you know, sometimes kids do need apps,
like they might be catching buses after school, and then
at bus app or they might be going to sport
praduss in the tea reach. Dumb phones don't don't allow that.
So we have one of the kids save smartphones. We
use it. I call it a family phone. It sits
on our kitchen bench because sometimes my son's home from
school before I get home, and you know, we don't
(13:36):
don't have family home phones anymore, so we can't call
me unless there's a phone available, So we have that
on the bench. You can call me when the kids
go to different events or sporting events or their mates us,
they can. The person that needs the phone takes the phone.
But my kids are only nine and nearly thirteen, so
I don't feel the need for them to have a phone.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yet you're rocking it. That is, that's that is that
is for most people. That's probably I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Quite rare and are actually quite rare. Wells a trend,
there's a train. More and more parents are getting on
board with this. I think we know more about the
impact and the harms of having our kids connected all
the time online, and you know, there's a movement. It's coming.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
It sounds good well with us. And by the way,
if you'd like to join the show. We'd love to
hear from your eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text
nine nine two. The our eldest daughter had a dumb
phone for two years and it was it was kind
of a little bit tough. But the problem is we
went on an overseas holiday and when we went overseas,
we thought, okay, well when we want an a youngest
(14:36):
got a smartphone as well, because we actually just wanted
that extra level of safety. I guess, you know, and
you're in a big you know, you're going to Paris
or something. I know, you get just sort of thing
you're going to live in year old you don't want
to get separated, but if you do, you've got a smartphone.
So we just did that. But now we can't.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Really Yeah, you can't write it to day once you've
opened up the.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Want to know your what are your thoughts on this?
And if you're our parent in the digital age, and
it's easy. You know, when before I became a parent,
of my kids were just you know, little girls six
or eight or whatever. You look at the problems that
teenage parents of teenagers would have and you just sort
of think, oh, it's easy, just do this, and then
you become a parent of a teenager and you're like, Okay,
(15:17):
it's actually not as easy as I thought. So we'd
love to take your cause. We've got Hollybrooker here from
the Parenting Place. If you're looking for some good advice
on maybe managing your kids' devices and the digital environment therein,
then run it by us and we'll see if we
can we can brainstorm something a so give us a
call eight hundred and eighteen eighty text nine nine two.
(15:38):
It's twenty two past five News Talks. He'd be.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
WUSA feels like Gordy of Nose.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And welcome back to the parents quite. I'm Tim Beerbridge.
My guest is from Parenting Place. I think the website
I keep forgetting this. I think it's Parenting Place dot
nz do, isn't it, Holly Holly Brooker, that's right, I'll
just turned Yeah. There we go Parenting Place dot ee
and zaid and we're talking about the digital landscape, keeping
your kids safe. Give us a call eighty ten eighty.
(16:17):
We've got lots we're going to get through, but let's
take some calls as well.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Chris, Hello, you don't mate? How you doing?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Good?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Good? Good.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Hey you done.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Look, I was a late started this technology thing, and
I never really hit strips. I only learned how to
send emails.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
A few years ago. But anyway, what I did find,
what I have experienced, is how addictive the Facebook page things.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
For you or your family members.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
No, mate, this is like.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I'm sixty, right, and what I've done is I've gotten
rid of like I've got a dumb phone now and
I have got so much time now I'm reading books,
you know, like I'm reading a book about Charles Up.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm re engaging with my spiritual Have.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You got family as well? Have you got kids to
worry about with it? When it comes to the digital side.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Of things, No, no, I don't have. I don't have
that side of the equation. But what I have got
is just my experience of how how addictive that scrolling
can be. I mean, it is insanely addictive, and well
(17:36):
I found it to be.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, well that's I mean. And you can imagine you
can imagine Chris that as an adult, I mean adults,
just the same problems that you can imagine how susceptible
young minds are to it. Coun'try holly, Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I have to turn off notifications myself.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, actually, so what what? There's another issue around the
digital sort of thing where parents are actually sort of camp.
I don't want to say this on a mental way,
but I think parents can be their own kids worth
worst nightmare as well, because we all have it as parents.
When do you share something that involves that involves your kids?
(18:16):
Because there's things like my daughter got a great mark
and her ballet exam. There's a beautiful photo of her
and all ready to go in and sharing that, and
I'm thinking there comes an age when do you Because
I don't want to feel we can't share family holidays.
I mean, we have a lovely fellow family holiday and
I usually have group shots and of course if it's
(18:36):
a skiing holiday there you can't. You can't tell a
thing anyway because they've got helmets and visors on and
all that sort of stuff. But the sharing of your
kids is a It's a question that every parent needs
to at least ask themselves, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah? Definitely, I think, you know, I relate to when
my kids, who are really young and I was a
new mum was quite isolating and I was at home
a lot. So I was sharing photos and of my
babies and talking about you know, oh it's so hard,
I've been up all night, my baby's been teething.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well that's pretty harmless.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
You go through that and you're posting photos, and then
you kind of come to a place where you think, actually,
I don't know if I want to be sharing all
this personal information about my kids online. They might see
it one day. These photos might be obtained by someone
and something might happen to them privacy online because.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
What were the example of something where I don't know
you would share it? So for instance, of friends of mine,
their daughter's graduated, they've had their first ball. Is beautiful
photo of them all dressed up. That seems to me
sort of okay, But I guess you'd ask them, are
you okay for us to share this?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
You know, I do that with my kids. I check
with them, and I generally don't post much about much
of my kids, but when I do, if it's you know,
a group thing, like you said, we've been skiing and
we've taken photos of the family, But I just say, hey,
do you mind if I post this online on social
media and we have a talk, We have a chat
about it. And I think what that is doing is
that's role modeling, that we ask people's permission, because yeah,
I'm doing that for my cousin, teaching them that they
(19:58):
should do that for their friends too.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, because I think there'd be a lot of parents
that just assume. I mean, I guess you know every
parent is in charge of their own kid. It's just
a question you should ask yourself at what's at what
stage should you be asking for you? I mean, in fact,
at what age should you be worried about what you're
sticking online? Because I think baby photos, to be honest,
there's not a single parent around who hasn't posted probably
(20:22):
and look, they all look like Winston Churchill when they've
just been.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Born, a pretty ugly. You see a good looking one,
you're like, wow.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
When you see a good looking one, isn't baby actually looks?
You know, not so record and everything. Yeah, So what
age do you start to consider what you're posting of
your kids?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Do you?
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't have an age, but I'm just I just
think that we should be I mean, we don't want
to post things like our kids in their school uniform.
You know, I wouldn't post photos of my kids at
our local park because I don't want people to give
an idea of where we live and where we hang out.
I think privacy is actually a really big issue these days.
I think we have to be mindful of our data,
of our privacy.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Actually. Also, I guess if you have the argument about
being one platform versus another, So for instance, if you
are a private profile on Instagram, that's right, then do
you know who you're friends with? But let's face it,
if you are an adult who's been on Facebook for
a while, you've probably got two or three thousand friends
(21:23):
and you don't know how most of them are.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Oh, there's a lot of fake accounts as well that
are posing as your friends, so you to be mindful
of that. You know, how many times do you have
people message you and say, hey, please block this account.
It's a fake account that someone's created of me.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So yeah, I mean I've got a public account, so
I'm very mindful of not posting things of my kids.
Is very quite focused on my work or my personal stuff,
So that is a fact to consider.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, how often is our parents actually making that mistake
of posting too much? Do you think? Is it quite
a common film on or do you think people are
getting a little bit more aware of.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I think people are getting more aware of it. I
think people are getting more aware of it. I don't
see it as much now. I think some people are
a lot more confident and prolific on social media. Other
people are a bit more reserved. We're kind of I think, yeah,
a bit more aware now of the fact that once
a photo is online, it's online forever. And that's something
we want to teach our kids as well.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Actually, I think that's probably one of the more important points,
isn't it. Once a photo is online, Yeah, that's it.
And so if you are posting something, I guess how
parent it should? We always be paranoid about this stuff?
Is it just the reality of life? You've got to
ask yourself, Okay, I'm posting this, how happy am I?
If this goes wherever?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I think we need to think critically about what we're posting.
I think we need to think about who, you know,
what we're posting about, our kids one hundred percent, and
also just even the types of things that we are
posting ourselves, what we're saying, because you've got a very
big audience that can see what you're saying what.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I mean, do you have any advice for people who
want so, like you've got overseas family, I mean, and
know who emails photos these days? Everyone wants to Everyone
does things in a we don't read. Do that that's
old school?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Did you used to do that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Whereas I guess what is it personal messaging apps where
you might be your share photos with.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Probably what's happening you trust what WhatsApp is the most common?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I would say for sure, what are your comments on that?
Is that sort of recentably safe in your view or what?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah? I would think that it is one of the
safer ones it makes. It's actually one of the platforms
that are quite concerning for kids to use because it
is quite lockdown and hard for It's hard to find
out if dodgy behavior is happening because of its encryption.
So it is a safer platform of your sharing photos
to you to your family.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Would you I don't know if, because you were saying
when we were chatting in the break that while you
are quite strict on the apps, I mean, it's it's
not People shouldn't assume it's a piece of cake for
you either, is it?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
No, it's definitely not a piece of cake. It's an
ongoing you know, it's a really hard thing to parent
in this era. I think we have so much coming
at us and coming at our kids online. There's so
much to consider and it's a juggle. It's a tension,
and I think it's, like I said before, it's one
of the things parents struggle with the most. And I
think a lot of parents find it so overwhelming that
(24:12):
they avoid dealing with it and they just las a
fair about it and that their kids do whatever, because
it is very difficult. But I think that you absolutely
can have great family values around tech in your home,
and you can put good robust boundaries in place. You
can use the tech to support your boundaries, and you
just need to have ongoing conversations with your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, let's start off with a few simple suggestions. So
you know your child's getting to that age where they're
going to be, whether they have their own fune or
they've got access to one, what are the basics that
you would start with when it comes to your kids
entering that digital world.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, well you talked about a contract before. Some people
like using a contract. We have one on the parent
in place, website. I personally don't use a contract, but
I like the framing of a contract in terms of
the questions or yeah, the questions that might enable you
to discuss with your kids about the types of things
that are expected behaviors around the device. So if you're
(25:06):
going to be giving your kids a iPad or a
laptop or a phone, it should there shouldn't be an
assumption for your child. That's sweet, free for all. Get
to use it whenever I want, do whatever I want.
I like to have the mentality of I own the
phone because I've paid for it, or I own the laptop,
I own the device.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And then we have we have Actually I'm going to
write that down, I own the device.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
No, no, because that's right on your forehead.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well sort of, this is your phone to use, but
it's not yours, it's mine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I quite like that.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Yeah, And it's it's not to say that we're just
not giving our kids any freedom online because we live
in this tech era. Of course they're online, but we
can and we should have boundaries and parameters in place
to protect them from too much screen time, from seeing
harmful content, from getting exposed of things we don't want
them to be exposed to just being online in the
middle of the night when they should be sleepinging.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Oh well, phones in the lounge on the charger. I mean,
our role in our house is not that it's always obayed,
because you sometimes can hang on, where's your phone? It's
just down in my ballet bag, didn't I say up
here on the counter, plugged in? But of course that's just.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
That's the way you do it. You have it on
the on the counter, plugged in.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
That there's a Yeah, we've got a bank of plugs
under the TV, and it's like phones up there when
you get home.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And actually the other thing that we've learned, in fact,
it's not a bad lesson for kids. You know how
many parents we threaten all sorts of things all the time.
You threaten consequences, and sometimes it's like you don't follow
through for two years. Yeah. I almost once, not fantasized,
but I thought if she I almost fantasized about literally
(26:44):
grabbing her phone off her and heading it with a
sledgehammer in front of her. But of course I didn't
didn't do anything. You ever really mad, I was cross,
I thought about it. All I did was put your
phone there, and I've threatened to confiscate the phone. But
now we do follow through with that, only because there
were some other friends of ours used to have quite
(27:06):
strict consequences for certain transgressions and behavior. It would lose
your phone for a week. And I think that's probably
the best thing I've ever done with not the best thing,
but one of the more effective things, was to follow
through with stuff because and that's just a general parenting thing.
How often do you threaten to do something? Maybe not?
Speaker 4 (27:25):
And I think that's something that when I've talked to
the family coaches, parents struggle with that. They struggle with
the pushback. So they get quite anxious about oh my kids.
You know, if I say they can only use the
iPad for this amount of time or whatever, they're going
to lose it and it's going to be intense. But
we can prepare ourselves for that and we can go
We've got to be a strong leader. That's what our
kids need us to be. They have rules at school. Yeah,
(27:47):
they signed digital contracts. They know the deal at school in.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
School, hallelujah for the for the no using your phone
in school time.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
An I think it's a great initiative. I don't know
how well it's been enforced in every school, but I
think it's a really it signals something really important that hey,
these are distracting, we're here to learn.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
One of my daughters who I did confiscate her phone
for a day. Funny thing was because I think it's
with anything that if you just get their head out
of it and they move on to something else, then
all of a sudden it's forgotten about. And she actually
got home at the end of the day she says, actually, Dad,
I've actually had quite a nice day and not having
my phone with me because I think she.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Found She's so common. I hear that so much.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, and it's like she said, I looked out of them,
you know, I was chatting to my friends and I
just was looking out of the bus window and looking
at the world go by. And I think she had
quite a nice day.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And I think that's what kids are missing now. Because
we are so connected online all the time, we're missing
out in the real world. We're missing out on real connections,
we're missing out on play.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's funny you should mention that because there's even a
movement in the dating world that they're not well, a
little bit of a movement, but there's a younger people
are saying, gosh, I wish I could date like they
did in the second of the part eighties. Someone meet
someone for real rather than swipe swipe, swipe, yes, no, whatever.
Do you think that there's Oh.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Man, I'm so thankful I wasn't dating during that time.
So I think we're saturated with online media. It's quite overwhelming.
So I can totally understand that we actually really just
need to be healthy humans. We need real life connection
and I could really need that.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So what do we do about the social media? Then?
What sort of advice do you guys offer parents when
they are thinking about my daughter wants an Instagram account
and I'm feeling I can't hold off, or what do
you think?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah, I think that every family know you know, you
know your child, You know your child more than anyone.
And I think that delaying is definitely a parenting place.
Would say delay is the best strategy because once you
give it to them, you really can't get it back.
And I think once you do give them social media,
you need to be actively involved in it. It doesn't
necessarily become a free for all. Because they're thirteen, they
(29:54):
now have Snapchat's all good, You're on it whenever you
want to be on it.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Well, in fact, is that an argument for saying okay
if for Instagram in for instance, for Instagram, gosh, there's
a slip of the time. For instance, okay, if you're
going to be on Instagram it's a private account and
I am one of your followers, and if you remove
me as a follower, your phone's gone.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Well, I think that's a very very sensible approach because
there's you know, it's open to public. They've got all
sorts of people that could be contacting them. We do
have an increasing risk of grooming in six stortion in
New Zealand. We've had the police talk about that this year.
We've had the DEA talk about that. We know that's
a risk, so why wouldn't we put measures in place
to prevent that as much as we can.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
How prevalent is that? Oh, I mean, I've got a
susist well that wanted to freak us out.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
But since from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three, so
that's in five years, we've had a one than three
hundred and thirty two percent increase in six stortion online?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Is that from.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Malevolent? Okay, everyone who's doing that stuff is malevolent, right,
But is that from people within that child's peer group
or is it from a third party She's slightly more
malevolent and sinister.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So there's two parts through those statistics upon the Internet
Watch Foundation, and those would be primarily coming from targeted
boomers who are looking at correlating this type of content
and distributing her online. But we do have a real
increase in sex saution with young people. I spoke to
a counselor the other day. She was telling me about
a girl that has she's been counseling. The girl had
(31:30):
a boyfriend and she's young. I think she was thirteen
or fourteen. He was pressuring her to say no, she
didn't want to. You keep pressuring her, sing everyone's doing it.
Eventually she did it. He then edited it and he
dropped it and assembly on ear drop. Everyone got it.
She didn't tell anyone for a whole year. She didn't
tell her mom and dad. She start to embarrass horrendous.
(31:50):
She got really depressed and started harmony.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
How does how does?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
How does?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
It's just a sit down conversation. I guess isn't it
with your kids ongoing? That's actually also the thing about
those contracts. While you know whether or not you want
to sign and the parenting place is a contract, but
they provide in fact that To be honest, we haven't
actually really referred to the contract and we tempted to
dig them out again, but they allowed us to have
because they've just it's like a checklist of Okay, so
(32:20):
these are the things you're not going to do, and
it's start of that conversation, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
I think yeah, definitely. I think that's what the benefit
of the contract is. There's lots of great questions that
can help guide conversations because sometimes we don't know where
to start. We're like, well, great, what are we going
to talk about? What do we say? What's important for
our kids to know is that we know that things happen,
and we are a safe place that they can come
to to talk to if something happens it makes them
uncomfortable or as upsetting for them because it's likely it's going.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
To so Mum and Dad are not that place where
you know there's going to be major problems. It's like,
if you've got a problem, we want to solve.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
It with you.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Please never feel that you know absolutely you're the safe
You're the safe haven.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Often kids won't tell their parents because they're worried their
device will get taken off them. So we want to
be really mindful of our reaction when we if we
do find out something upsetting. Could we find out I
could send a nude and it's been shared. We've got
to try and keep our reaction calm. Yeah, it's going
to be really shocking and upsetting for us, but we
need to help guide them through that process because these
these are real risks that our kids are facing. And
(33:20):
I think that, yeah, it's it's a big mindfield for
them to manage on that.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you guys have got resources on parenting places too
many when we go to so people want to just
if they want to get a bit looking into this
a bit more, they just go parenting place dot e
ins here. It's right.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
We have articles with family coaches, we have online courses,
we have parenting parenting courses, all the things.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
They've got it all at the parenting place. Hey, guess
what time flies when you're having fun?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
That's it serious exactly. Keen to keep chatting.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, we might just have you have to have you
back again. So hey, holy thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
No worries, it was a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Thank you excellent so parenting Place dot in Z. You've
got any questions, queries, fears, you want any information. That's
a great starting point. Parenting Place, Dodi in Z. We'll
be back to rat Sport in just a moment. It's
seventeen minutes to Sex Talk SEDB. For more from the
weekend collective, listen live to news Talks it be weekends
from three pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
No no no no no no no no no no
no no no no no no no no no no no.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
He comed out step the.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Liver cons.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Area. No no, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beveridge and if you've missed any of the
previous hours our Property show, the one roof radio show
with the Ashley Church talking about whether the exciting days
of the market will ever return quit a fascinating discussion actually,
and also our panel or the hour before that, Bridget Morton,
(00:57):
Mark Kreisel. You can check it out if you've missed
it weary podcasts, I would suggest going to iHeartRadio and
just looking for the Weekend Collective. But now for the
Parent Squad, which is right now. We've got a new
guest in the studio and she is here courtesy of
the Parenting Place. She's a parenting expert and online safety advocate.
So if you're a parent, and as I'm discovering, not
(01:19):
quite yet because we managed to hold them off on
the old social media a little bit. But we're going
to talk about digital safety, the current digital landscape and
if you've got any concerns, we'd love to have your calls,
or if you've got an opinion you'd like to express,
you can give us a call on No. Eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. You can text on nine two nine two.
But enough of that, because my expert is Holly Brooker. Hello, Holly,
(01:40):
how are you going good?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm pretty good? So tell us because you're a new
guest on the show, and you come to us courtesy
of the Parenting Place, who are familiar to our audience
with Dave Atkinson and Jenny Jenny Hale, what's your bag?
Tell us about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I have big boots to fill today because Dave and
Genny normally cover the stot. They are amazing piece of cake. Yeah,
so I do. I work with Parenting Place, but I
also run an advocacy campaign called me Sense, and we've
been advocating for I guess regulation around online harm for
young people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You're advocating for regulation, and so what is the landscape
right now and what do you want to see?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Well, I guess one of the primary things that we've
been advocating for is I'm just a little bit mindful
of our audience right now. But really it's essentially around
illegal content that's deemed illegal, abdictionable under the film's videos, classifications,
publications Act.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Every parent's worst nightmare.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Basically, the government has a filter and it hasn't been
performing very well, and so we've been advocating for some
changes with the tech and so that's kind of actually
in play at the moment. That's been really great. We've
also been looking recently at some other things around.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, because well we don't need to get into all
on the nitty gritty of it, but the concerns are
what kids are sharing online and where it's going. And
actually just a quick question, do you think who's this
is who's better equipped to understand how the internet works?
Because I'm wondering whether the kids are actually no bit
more about it than their parents do. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So onto it? Whenever I have some kind of tickets here,
I go straight to my son thirteen.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What do you say my windows won't log off or something?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Help your mother out? Yeah, Oh, they're just they're smart,
they know how it works. Yep, there, onto it. But
I think you know, back to your point about online harm,
we don't have regulation and place in New Zealand. We
don't have any kind of regulation of the industry, so
you know, the government would say it's on parents to
keep their kids safe. So that's a huge taking.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Actually, yeah, I've got I've got a couple of pet
peeves I'm going to mention to you, but tell us.
So it's one thing to be passionate about the stuff.
So how do you you end up working with the
Parenting Place and being involved in this sphere. What's a
little bit more about you?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh, it's a great question. So I've been working with
Parenting Place for about five years now. I have I
guess I grew up in an environment. I grew up
in South Auckland and then up to fangre and I
you know, you know, experience some childhood trauma and have
seen the power of the strong family unit, and I've
seen the impacts of dysfunctional family units. So I became
(04:07):
a high school teacher. I worked in South aauk Cloud.
I absolutely loved it. Became a mum and changed careers
and moved into PR and comms and yeah, through that
time of becoming a parent, just realized how important the
role was of being a parent and being educated to
do the job as well as I could. You know,
there's no such thing as a perfect parent, but I
really love what parenting plays through in terms of supporting
(04:28):
fun around the country wherever they're at. So I've been
really invested.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In an amazing resource, and in fact, we use They've
got a contract when you give your kid your first
their first phone, they've got a contract that you can
adapt for your own purposes. But it's about the rules,
which I must say, to my shame that my wife
did say to me the other day. You know what,
we have to get those contracts out and see what
they're actually signed up to, because they are so good
(04:53):
at they're so good at just give an inch, take
a mile. Yeah, because and the.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Problem is it happens so quickly, doesn't it a little
bit and then all of a sudden you're like, wow,
what's happening?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, because also I think the trick is because they're
not just entertainment devices, they're not just social media devices.
They are I just want to watch this video on
this dance that I want to learn, and I sort
of think that sounds reasonable, but it's just the inability
to keep tabs on it because it's it's not exactly
(05:25):
a laptop, which is sitting on the desk you put
up for them in the lounge. You can see what
they're doing. It's it's because the phone is everything. They
say to me or Dad, you're on your phone. I'm like, well,
I'm reading the New Zealand. Hell right now, honey, do
you want to come and read the same articles. That
is one of the problems, isn't it that they are
such amazing tools. Phones?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
They are, and there's so much great stuff on there,
and there's so much to keep us entertained. I had
a similar thing with my son this afternoon. He looked
up something that I said he could look up, and
ten minutes later I left the room. He was on
the laud. He's in the dining room.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Sorry, how old is he?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Can?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I asks thirteen?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Similar came back and he was then he was looking
at something else. He said, hey, buddy, what are you doing.
He told me it was totally fine what he was doing.
But I said, oh, man, it's so easy to go
down the rabbit warren. When you go online, you look
at one thing and then nick minute you're looking at
all these other different things. And he said yeah, yeah,
and so yeah, it's it's time to turn it off
because it's so easy to lose two three hours online.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Have you got that out? Have you got that sort
of pattern of behavior where you can say them, hey, buddy,
I think it's time to turn it off. And you
don't get much pushback, or I do.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
But I boundaries are really we talk a lot about
tech in our family, and I think family, you know,
your family values around tech is pretty important to talk
about regularly, and we do have some quite fin boundaries
in place, and so I don't. I actually don't get
much pushback, and I find that actually really helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Are you quite? If I saw you in action, would
be like, Wow, she's really strict. She's awesome.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I mean, my mum would say I'm a bit soft,
but no, I would say that I'm probably on the
I'm on the stricter side.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Mind your mum not even not understand what you're trying
to manage with devices. But I'm guessing you're quite young.
You mum might be quite young too.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So she was, she was a young mum. She's been
she's actually been listening to the Anxious Generation with Jonathan Hayte, recently,
so she's on board with the online the online stuff,
and that's been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Hey, So if you've got any questions and you'd like
to join the conversation, we'd love to hear from you
on or one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text
nine to nine two. There's one thing I just wanted
to ask you about now. I've heard some conversations about
this this week. So in Australia there's a talk there's
talk going on about regulating the age which kids can
(07:39):
actually have a social media account, and I've heard I
heard some arguments which I one hundred percent disagreed with.
Somebody was saying, oh, well, it doesn't matter if you
make it illegal for the kids, because then dad will
just get a social media account and let their son
or daughter access it. But to me, I would imagine
that there are many parents who are crying out for this,
(08:00):
who would say hellelujah, because then you've got that you know, honey,
it's actually not a it's not even legal for you
to have this account, which is sort of like full
stop as opposed to I don't want you to have
a mobile phone or sorry, I don't want you to
have a Facebook account because say Mark Zuckerbird doesn't want
(08:20):
his kids to have one until they're fifteen. They go,
they snooze over. But do you think that there's room
for the government to be I mean, obviously you want
more legislation around the sort of content and policing what
kids are sticking online, and you know the rules against
people exploiting that. But what are you with your own
personal opinion? I guess on government legislating you can't have
(08:42):
a social media account till you're fifteen or something or
fourteen or whatever.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, I think that you're right that I think you know,
one of the things that parents are most concerned about.
We see this with our family coaching at Parenting Place,
and we see it with the State of the Nation
Parenting survey that comes out every year to seventy five
percent appearance are most concerned about screen time and what
their kids are doing online. So parents do care about
this a lot, and I think that right to say
that when if we can have some kind of parameter
(09:08):
around actually it's you can't the government's is or there's
a rule that you can't go on to succeed for
good reason. That does give you a bit more ammunition
when you're a parent trying to deal with the pushback,
because kids do push back, it's normal, but it kind
of also lifts the you know, the age at the
moment is thirteen, but I here have plenty of kids
are legal age.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Or is that the policy of Facebook and Instagram?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Is the policy of Facebook and Instagram and TikTok what
have you? Yep, So I think that, you know, I
think we have a real problem with social media. There's
a lot of harmful content on there. On there, there's
a lot of harmful content online. It's the Internet's you know,
designed for adults, and we should put mil wises in
place to protect children. I really do think that we
should lift the age.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, and if you're listening, I mean, what are your
biggest concerns about your kids? I'll tell you one of
my gripes, So my one of my daughters, because obviously
we're in a household. Usually your kids' phones. I would
just guess, I'd say many people's children's devices are the
hand me down. So you've you've moved on from the
Apple whatever it is, and you've given them your old Apple.
(10:11):
I'm a I'm a Google Android guy, and the thing
that grinds my gears big time, and I loath the
Apple for this is I can keep an eye on
one daughter's phone because I'm Android and she's on my
old Android. My wife also because she can get the
app which Google will allow an Apple person to have
(10:32):
the app to keep an eye on my daughter's I
on her Android. Use I as an Apple person as sorry,
as an Android person, I can't see anything about what
my other daughter is doing because it's Apple and Apples
suck because they don't allow Android parents to keep an
eye on their Apple kids.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Yes, that's definitely a really tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And I thought you were going to tell me I
could actually something.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I just go with Apple. Why would you have an Android?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Because Apple is the death star of bloody tech. They
suck you in and they don't let you out.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
I have, I have differently. Yeah, I've definitely heard androids
better in terms of parental safety controls for kids as well.
So I think you're onto something there.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh I am, So Apple does suck? See producers out
in the studio there? Yeah, there we are. They were
looking at me in an outrage sort of thing that
I've bagged the Apple, get the Android but I mean
that I'm surprised that there isn't more cooperation on something
so simple as parental control.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
So I've recently been working with safe Surfer, who's a
family filtering company based in New Zealand and they operated
around the world. But they've just done this amazing They've
launched a phone with Samsung. It's called the Kids Safe Smartphone.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Dot I'm writing this down kids.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Sorry kids Safephone dot Io and it's a new smartphone
that's just come onto the markets, the you know, the
safest kids phone that you can get, and it's flip
and awesome. It has just calls and texts and as
the parent, you are in control of the app store.
You can you can download the apps that you want
your child to have, like Team Reach or whatever it is,
and a parent dashboard and you'll be notified of any
(12:02):
kind of, you know, dodgy behavior that's going on. But
it has really good, robust filtering. It's that's it's very
very difficult, maybe impossible to hack around. It's got knocks
and all these high tech.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Can I say, Can I say if it's going to
be cynical, I would say that sounds like the least
cool phone a kid can have then.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Or does it look like that's why it's great because
it's just it's a regular smartphone, but it's been dialed
right back to be really simple calls and texts and you,
as the parent, decide what apps you want, you have
you're trying to have when they are ready.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Kids safe. It's a kids safe phone phone and it's
got a website even in New Zealand. I think it
is a kids safe phone because actually that is good
news for I don't want to be too hard on Apple. No, yeah,
actually you know what, I do want to be hard
on Apple. Get track together, but it is it is
good news I think because a lot of parents they
(12:56):
either had to get their phone kids a dumb phone
and the.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Kids are i mean just embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
The other thing is as well, is that if if
you don't let your kids have some sort of modernish device,
there is a level of isolation that they're going to
suffer because they're one of a handful of kids you
don't have a decent phone.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Is that is this something I think as well? With
a dumb phone, you know, sometimes kids do need apps,
like they might be catching buses after school, and then
at bus app or they might be going to sport
praduss in the tea reach. Dumb phones don't don't allow that.
So we have one of the kids save smartphones. We
use it. I call it a family phone. It sits
on our kitchen bench because sometimes my son's home from
school before I get home, and you know, we don't
(13:36):
don't have family home phones anymore, so we can't call
me unless there's a phone available, So we have that
on the bench. You can call me when the kids
go to different events or sporting events or their mates us,
they can. The person that needs the phone takes the phone.
But my kids are only nine and nearly thirteen, so
I don't feel the need for them to have a phone.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yet you're rocking it. That is, that's that is that
is for most people. That's probably I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Quite rare and are actually quite rare. Wells a trend,
there's a train. More and more parents are getting on
board with this. I think we know more about the
impact and the harms of having our kids connected all
the time online, and you know, there's a movement. It's coming.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
It sounds good well with us. And by the way,
if you'd like to join the show. We'd love to
hear from your eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text
nine nine two. The our eldest daughter had a dumb
phone for two years and it was it was kind
of a little bit tough. But the problem is we
went on an overseas holiday and when we went overseas,
we thought, okay, well when we want an a youngest
(14:36):
got a smartphone as well, because we actually just wanted
that extra level of safety. I guess, you know, and
you're in a big you know, you're going to Paris
or something. I know, you get just sort of thing
you're going to live in year old you don't want
to get separated, but if you do, you've got a smartphone.
So we just did that. But now we can't.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Really Yeah, you can't write it to day once you've
opened up the.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Want to know your what are your thoughts on this?
And if you're our parent in the digital age, and
it's easy. You know, when before I became a parent,
of my kids were just you know, little girls six
or eight or whatever. You look at the problems that
teenage parents of teenagers would have and you just sort
of think, oh, it's easy, just do this, and then
you become a parent of a teenager and you're like, Okay,
(15:17):
it's actually not as easy as I thought. So we'd
love to take your cause. We've got Hollybrooker here from
the Parenting Place. If you're looking for some good advice
on maybe managing your kids' devices and the digital environment therein,
then run it by us and we'll see if we
can we can brainstorm something a so give us a
call eight hundred and eighteen eighty text nine nine two.
(15:38):
It's twenty two past five News Talks. He'd be.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
WUSA feels like Gordy of Nose.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And welcome back to the parents quite. I'm Tim Beerbridge.
My guest is from Parenting Place. I think the website
I keep forgetting this. I think it's Parenting Place dot
nz do, isn't it, Holly Holly Brooker, that's right, I'll
just turned Yeah. There we go Parenting Place dot ee
and zaid and we're talking about the digital landscape, keeping
your kids safe. Give us a call eighty ten eighty.
(16:17):
We've got lots we're going to get through, but let's
take some calls as well.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Chris, Hello, you don't mate? How you doing?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Good?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Good? Good.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Hey you done.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Look, I was a late started this technology thing, and
I never really hit strips. I only learned how to
send emails.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
A few years ago. But anyway, what I did find,
what I have experienced, is how addictive the Facebook page things.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
For you or your family members.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
No, mate, this is like.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I'm sixty, right, and what I've done is I've gotten
rid of like I've got a dumb phone now and
I have got so much time now I'm reading books,
you know, like I'm reading a book about Charles Up.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm re engaging with my spiritual Have.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You got family as well? Have you got kids to
worry about with it? When it comes to the digital side.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Of things, No, no, I don't have. I don't have
that side of the equation. But what I have got
is just my experience of how how addictive that scrolling
can be. I mean, it is insanely addictive, and well
(17:36):
I found it to be.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, well that's I mean. And you can imagine you
can imagine Chris that as an adult, I mean adults,
just the same problems that you can imagine how susceptible
young minds are to it. Coun'try holly, Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I have to turn off notifications myself.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, actually, so what what? There's another issue around the
digital sort of thing where parents are actually sort of camp.
I don't want to say this on a mental way,
but I think parents can be their own kids worth
worst nightmare as well, because we all have it as parents.
When do you share something that involves that involves your kids?
(18:16):
Because there's things like my daughter got a great mark
and her ballet exam. There's a beautiful photo of her
and all ready to go in and sharing that, and
I'm thinking there comes an age when do you Because
I don't want to feel we can't share family holidays.
I mean, we have a lovely fellow family holiday and
I usually have group shots and of course if it's
(18:36):
a skiing holiday there you can't. You can't tell a
thing anyway because they've got helmets and visors on and
all that sort of stuff. But the sharing of your
kids is a It's a question that every parent needs
to at least ask themselves, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah? Definitely, I think, you know, I relate to when
my kids, who are really young and I was a
new mum was quite isolating and I was at home
a lot. So I was sharing photos and of my
babies and talking about you know, oh it's so hard,
I've been up all night, my baby's been teething.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well that's pretty harmless.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
You go through that and you're posting photos, and then
you kind of come to a place where you think, actually,
I don't know if I want to be sharing all
this personal information about my kids online. They might see
it one day. These photos might be obtained by someone
and something might happen to them privacy online because.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
What were the example of something where I don't know
you would share it? So for instance, of friends of mine,
their daughter's graduated, they've had their first ball. Is beautiful
photo of them all dressed up. That seems to me
sort of okay, But I guess you'd ask them, are
you okay for us to share this?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
You know, I do that with my kids. I check
with them, and I generally don't post much about much
of my kids, but when I do, if it's you know,
a group thing, like you said, we've been skiing and
we've taken photos of the family, But I just say, hey,
do you mind if I post this online on social
media and we have a talk, We have a chat
about it. And I think what that is doing is
that's role modeling, that we ask people's permission, because yeah,
I'm doing that for my cousin, teaching them that they
(19:58):
should do that for their friends too.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, because I think there'd be a lot of parents
that just assume. I mean, I guess you know every
parent is in charge of their own kid. It's just
a question you should ask yourself at what's at what
stage should you be asking for you? I mean, in fact,
at what age should you be worried about what you're
sticking online? Because I think baby photos, to be honest,
there's not a single parent around who hasn't posted probably
(20:22):
and look, they all look like Winston Churchill when they've
just been.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Born, a pretty ugly. You see a good looking one,
you're like, wow.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
When you see a good looking one, isn't baby actually looks?
You know, not so record and everything. Yeah, So what
age do you start to consider what you're posting of
your kids?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Do you?
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't have an age, but I'm just I just
think that we should be I mean, we don't want
to post things like our kids in their school uniform.
You know, I wouldn't post photos of my kids at
our local park because I don't want people to give
an idea of where we live and where we hang out.
I think privacy is actually a really big issue these days.
I think we have to be mindful of our data,
of our privacy.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Actually. Also, I guess if you have the argument about
being one platform versus another, So for instance, if you
are a private profile on Instagram, that's right, then do
you know who you're friends with? But let's face it,
if you are an adult who's been on Facebook for
a while, you've probably got two or three thousand friends
(21:23):
and you don't know how most of them are.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Oh, there's a lot of fake accounts as well that
are posing as your friends, so you to be mindful
of that. You know, how many times do you have
people message you and say, hey, please block this account.
It's a fake account that someone's created of me.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So yeah, I mean I've got a public account, so
I'm very mindful of not posting things of my kids.
Is very quite focused on my work or my personal stuff,
So that is a fact to consider.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, how often is our parents actually making that mistake
of posting too much? Do you think? Is it quite
a common film on or do you think people are
getting a little bit more aware of.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I think people are getting more aware of it. I
think people are getting more aware of it. I don't
see it as much now. I think some people are
a lot more confident and prolific on social media. Other
people are a bit more reserved. We're kind of I think, yeah,
a bit more aware now of the fact that once
a photo is online, it's online forever. And that's something
we want to teach our kids as well.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Actually, I think that's probably one of the more important points,
isn't it. Once a photo is online, Yeah, that's it.
And so if you are posting something, I guess how
parent it should? We always be paranoid about this stuff?
Is it just the reality of life? You've got to
ask yourself, Okay, I'm posting this, how happy am I?
If this goes wherever?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I think we need to think critically about what we're posting.
I think we need to think about who, you know,
what we're posting about, our kids one hundred percent, and
also just even the types of things that we are
posting ourselves, what we're saying, because you've got a very
big audience that can see what you're saying what.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I mean, do you have any advice for people who
want so, like you've got overseas family, I mean, and
know who emails photos these days? Everyone wants to Everyone
does things in a we don't read. Do that that's
old school?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Did you used to do that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Whereas I guess what is it personal messaging apps where
you might be your share photos with.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Probably what's happening you trust what WhatsApp is the most common?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I would say for sure, what are your comments on that?
Is that sort of recentably safe in your view or what?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah? I would think that it is one of the
safer ones it makes. It's actually one of the platforms
that are quite concerning for kids to use because it
is quite lockdown and hard for It's hard to find
out if dodgy behavior is happening because of its encryption.
So it is a safer platform of your sharing photos
to you to your family.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Would you I don't know if, because you were saying
when we were chatting in the break that while you
are quite strict on the apps, I mean, it's it's
not People shouldn't assume it's a piece of cake for
you either, is it?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
No, it's definitely not a piece of cake. It's an
ongoing you know, it's a really hard thing to parent
in this era. I think we have so much coming
at us and coming at our kids online. There's so
much to consider and it's a juggle. It's a tension,
and I think it's, like I said before, it's one
of the things parents struggle with the most. And I
think a lot of parents find it so overwhelming that
(24:12):
they avoid dealing with it and they just las a
fair about it and that their kids do whatever, because
it is very difficult. But I think that you absolutely
can have great family values around tech in your home,
and you can put good robust boundaries in place. You
can use the tech to support your boundaries, and you
just need to have ongoing conversations with your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, let's start off with a few simple suggestions. So
you know your child's getting to that age where they're
going to be, whether they have their own fune or
they've got access to one, what are the basics that
you would start with when it comes to your kids
entering that digital world.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, well you talked about a contract before. Some people
like using a contract. We have one on the parent
in place, website. I personally don't use a contract, but
I like the framing of a contract in terms of
the questions or yeah, the questions that might enable you
to discuss with your kids about the types of things
that are expected behaviors around the device. So if you're
(25:06):
going to be giving your kids a iPad or a
laptop or a phone, it should there shouldn't be an
assumption for your child. That's sweet, free for all. Get
to use it whenever I want, do whatever I want.
I like to have the mentality of I own the
phone because I've paid for it, or I own the laptop,
I own the device.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And then we have we have Actually I'm going to
write that down, I own the device.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
No, no, because that's right on your forehead.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well sort of, this is your phone to use, but
it's not yours, it's mine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I quite like that.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Yeah, And it's it's not to say that we're just
not giving our kids any freedom online because we live
in this tech era. Of course they're online, but we
can and we should have boundaries and parameters in place
to protect them from too much screen time, from seeing
harmful content, from getting exposed of things we don't want
them to be exposed to just being online in the
middle of the night when they should be sleepinging.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Oh well, phones in the lounge on the charger. I mean,
our role in our house is not that it's always obayed,
because you sometimes can hang on, where's your phone? It's
just down in my ballet bag, didn't I say up
here on the counter, plugged in? But of course that's just.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
That's the way you do it. You have it on
the on the counter, plugged in.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
That there's a Yeah, we've got a bank of plugs
under the TV, and it's like phones up there when
you get home.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And actually the other thing that we've learned, in fact,
it's not a bad lesson for kids. You know how
many parents we threaten all sorts of things all the time.
You threaten consequences, and sometimes it's like you don't follow
through for two years. Yeah. I almost once, not fantasized,
but I thought if she I almost fantasized about literally
(26:44):
grabbing her phone off her and heading it with a
sledgehammer in front of her. But of course I didn't
didn't do anything. You ever really mad, I was cross,
I thought about it. All I did was put your
phone there, and I've threatened to confiscate the phone. But
now we do follow through with that, only because there
were some other friends of ours used to have quite
(27:06):
strict consequences for certain transgressions and behavior. It would lose
your phone for a week. And I think that's probably
the best thing I've ever done with not the best thing,
but one of the more effective things, was to follow
through with stuff because and that's just a general parenting thing.
How often do you threaten to do something? Maybe not?
Speaker 4 (27:25):
And I think that's something that when I've talked to
the family coaches, parents struggle with that. They struggle with
the pushback. So they get quite anxious about oh my kids.
You know, if I say they can only use the
iPad for this amount of time or whatever, they're going
to lose it and it's going to be intense. But
we can prepare ourselves for that and we can go
We've got to be a strong leader. That's what our
kids need us to be. They have rules at school. Yeah,
(27:47):
they signed digital contracts. They know the deal at school in.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
School, hallelujah for the for the no using your phone
in school time.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
An I think it's a great initiative. I don't know
how well it's been enforced in every school, but I
think it's a really it signals something really important that hey,
these are distracting, we're here to learn.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
One of my daughters who I did confiscate her phone
for a day. Funny thing was because I think it's
with anything that if you just get their head out
of it and they move on to something else, then
all of a sudden it's forgotten about. And she actually
got home at the end of the day she says, actually, Dad,
I've actually had quite a nice day and not having
my phone with me because I think she.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Found She's so common. I hear that so much.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, and it's like she said, I looked out of them,
you know, I was chatting to my friends and I
just was looking out of the bus window and looking
at the world go by. And I think she had
quite a nice day.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And I think that's what kids are missing now. Because
we are so connected online all the time, we're missing
out in the real world. We're missing out on real connections,
we're missing out on play.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's funny you should mention that because there's even a
movement in the dating world that they're not well, a
little bit of a movement, but there's a younger people
are saying, gosh, I wish I could date like they
did in the second of the part eighties. Someone meet
someone for real rather than swipe swipe, swipe, yes, no, whatever.
Do you think that there's Oh.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Man, I'm so thankful I wasn't dating during that time.
So I think we're saturated with online media. It's quite overwhelming.
So I can totally understand that we actually really just
need to be healthy humans. We need real life connection
and I could really need that.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So what do we do about the social media? Then?
What sort of advice do you guys offer parents when
they are thinking about my daughter wants an Instagram account
and I'm feeling I can't hold off, or what do
you think?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah, I think that every family know you know, you
know your child, You know your child more than anyone.
And I think that delaying is definitely a parenting place.
Would say delay is the best strategy because once you
give it to them, you really can't get it back.
And I think once you do give them social media,
you need to be actively involved in it. It doesn't
necessarily become a free for all. Because they're thirteen, they
(29:54):
now have Snapchat's all good, You're on it whenever you
want to be on it.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Well, in fact, is that an argument for saying okay
if for Instagram in for instance, for Instagram, gosh, there's
a slip of the time. For instance, okay, if you're
going to be on Instagram it's a private account and
I am one of your followers, and if you remove
me as a follower, your phone's gone.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Well, I think that's a very very sensible approach because
there's you know, it's open to public. They've got all
sorts of people that could be contacting them. We do
have an increasing risk of grooming in six stortion in
New Zealand. We've had the police talk about that this year.
We've had the DEA talk about that. We know that's
a risk, so why wouldn't we put measures in place
to prevent that as much as we can.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
How prevalent is that? Oh, I mean, I've got a
susist well that wanted to freak us out.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
But since from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three, so
that's in five years, we've had a one than three
hundred and thirty two percent increase in six stortion online?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Is that from.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Malevolent? Okay, everyone who's doing that stuff is malevolent, right,
But is that from people within that child's peer group
or is it from a third party She's slightly more
malevolent and sinister.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So there's two parts through those statistics upon the Internet
Watch Foundation, and those would be primarily coming from targeted
boomers who are looking at correlating this type of content
and distributing her online. But we do have a real
increase in sex saution with young people. I spoke to
a counselor the other day. She was telling me about
a girl that has she's been counseling. The girl had
(31:30):
a boyfriend and she's young. I think she was thirteen
or fourteen. He was pressuring her to say no, she
didn't want to. You keep pressuring her, sing everyone's doing it.
Eventually she did it. He then edited it and he
dropped it and assembly on ear drop. Everyone got it.
She didn't tell anyone for a whole year. She didn't
tell her mom and dad. She start to embarrass horrendous.
(31:50):
She got really depressed and started harmony.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
How does how does?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
How does?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
It's just a sit down conversation. I guess isn't it
with your kids ongoing? That's actually also the thing about
those contracts. While you know whether or not you want
to sign and the parenting place is a contract, but
they provide in fact that To be honest, we haven't
actually really referred to the contract and we tempted to
dig them out again, but they allowed us to have
because they've just it's like a checklist of Okay, so
(32:20):
these are the things you're not going to do, and
it's start of that conversation, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
I think yeah, definitely. I think that's what the benefit
of the contract is. There's lots of great questions that
can help guide conversations because sometimes we don't know where
to start. We're like, well, great, what are we going
to talk about? What do we say? What's important for
our kids to know is that we know that things happen,
and we are a safe place that they can come
to to talk to if something happens it makes them
uncomfortable or as upsetting for them because it's likely it's going.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
To so Mum and Dad are not that place where
you know there's going to be major problems. It's like,
if you've got a problem, we want to solve.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
It with you.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Please never feel that you know absolutely you're the safe
You're the safe haven.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Often kids won't tell their parents because they're worried their
device will get taken off them. So we want to
be really mindful of our reaction when we if we
do find out something upsetting. Could we find out I
could send a nude and it's been shared. We've got
to try and keep our reaction calm. Yeah, it's going
to be really shocking and upsetting for us, but we
need to help guide them through that process because these
these are real risks that our kids are facing. And
(33:20):
I think that, yeah, it's it's a big mindfield for
them to manage on that.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you guys have got resources on parenting places too
many when we go to so people want to just
if they want to get a bit looking into this
a bit more, they just go parenting place dot e
ins here. It's right.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
We have articles with family coaches, we have online courses,
we have parenting parenting courses, all the things.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
They've got it all at the parenting place. Hey, guess
what time flies when you're having fun?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
That's it serious exactly. Keen to keep chatting.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, we might just have you have to have you
back again. So hey, holy thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
No worries, it was a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Thank you excellent so parenting Place dot in Z. You've
got any questions, queries, fears, you want any information. That's
a great starting point. Parenting Place, Dodi in Z. We'll
be back to rat Sport in just a moment. It's
seventeen minutes to Sex Talk SEDB. For more from the
weekend collective, listen live to news Talks it be weekends
from three pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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