September 7, 2024 • 33 mins
Several schools nationwide are considering online learning as a solution to manage poor attendance, teacher shortages, and student mental health.
Kathryn Berkett joins Tyler Adams on The Weekend Collective to explain why this is a bad idea.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'd be good afternoon. Welcome back into the week in Collective.
Tyler Adams fillnon for Tim Beverage. He is banked tomorrow
and it is time for the parents Squad. Catherine Burkett
is a neuroscience trainer at Engaged Training and she joins us. Now.
Hi are you Katherine? Hi? Really good to chat and
nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How's your weekend gone so far?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well, today was a good one.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I flew to Blenheim and back from Wellington, so if
anybody's seen the wind out there.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
Was a good good day for flying.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Oh, bed, I bet so what was happening in Blenham?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I had a conference down there, so went down.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, very good. Lovely part of the country there isn't
it isn't it? Did you bring home some wine?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I actually was gifted some fine so yes I did,
and which.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is pretty lucky, fantastic. If you've got a question for Catherine,
or indeed a bit of advice for our audience, I'd
love to hear from you. We'd love to hear from you. Oh,
eight one hundred and eighty teen eighty is the number
to call. You can also tech through to nine two
ninety two and if you want to email, you're more
than welcome Tyler at news talk zeb dot co dot Nz. Catherine,
let's start a big story this week about Hagley College
(01:20):
is offering twenty NCEEA Level two students two days of
online learning a week. And I do know that there
are several high schools colleges around New Zealand that are
starting to look at that model as well, to allow
some of the senior students a couple of days a
week to have what they call learning from home, which
was effectively work from home for adults. Ryan, do you
(01:43):
see any risks with that approach from some of these
institutions and colleges or can that be an effective way
to teach these older children about self management?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, And it's like.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
With all things when we're talking about human beings, we
cannot put us all into one box, even if we're
the same.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Age or so.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
And in the article that was quite interesting because they
said they were trying to cater towards neurodiverse students, but
actually one of the students was saying that she wants
to get a part time job so it was going
to work for her. So she's obviously a very motivated
young lady and I would guess something like that's going to.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Work for her.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
But if you have got someone who is finding work
difficult and that's why they're not doing it, then allowing
them to work from home is probably not the best option.
But again, Hagley College themselves have said they're putting in
lots and lots of thought processes around that and stop gaps.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
But you do need to be careful.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
We're very relational creatures and our brain responds much better
to humans rather than computers, so it is hard to
get motivated to do work without humans around to an extent.
So I would see some risks absolutely, but again it
would depend on the individual.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, I mean on the attendance side of things. And
just from a neuroscience point of view, you a child's brain,
is it somewhat more problematic for children while their brain
is still developing to be able to manage that workload themselves,
as you say, to distance themselves from distractions. And we
all get distracted. It's a distracting world at the moment,
(03:20):
no doubt about it. But at that stage of brain development,
is there more risk in them.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, unless you've got someone like someone an adult who's
able to sort of keep that motivation going. And you know,
and again some kids are just incredibly able to do
that for themselves. But and in generalized sense, our brain
can't really think forward properly until about fifteen sixteen years old,
So it's very hard for us to go, you know what,
if I get this assignment finished, then three weeks time,
(03:48):
I won't have to do so much work, or in
ten years I'll have a good job. So that's not
really the capacity of the brain until we're sort of
fifteen sixteen. So, like I said, some kids will just
do it naturally, but for us, we go, Okay, I've
got to get this stuff done because my pay's got
to come in. It is hard for a child's brain
to do that. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And what about for the parents if your child is
at home for another couple of days a week and
they are meant to be you know, doing school work
and learning, I mean, that's got to be hard for
parents to manage, right. Are there any tricks to you know,
not bombard them or micro manage them and say, hey,
make sure you're doing your book work here. You meant
to be working, not, you know, lounging around at home.
Is there any tips and tricks for parents if they're
(04:30):
in that situation?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And I guess, you know, we all sort of experienced
a bit of that of working from home during COVID,
And I know I learned a really big lesson with
my son. He was sixteen at the time, and he
had to get some work done and I looked in
and he had his phone next to him, he had
the TV going, and he had the radiot or something,
and I was like, oh, And I instantly wanted to say,
(04:53):
turn all that off and get your work done. But
what I said to him is, can I have a
look at what you've done so far? And what is
your goal for today? And he had a quite clear goal,
and I said, if you can get that done, then
you can study like this. If you can't get it done,
then this is not okay. And he got it done beautifully.
And I think we have to be really careful of
assuming our kids learn like we do. So I urge
(05:17):
parents to give them a chance to prove it. If
they can't, then you sort of take some control.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
But some of our.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Kids do really well with lots of distractions going on.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Now, yeah, absolutely, Now, if you've got a question for Catherine, Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
All you can teach through on nine two nine two.
A doozy of a question has come through Catherine, and
they haven't they haven't put their name, but this is
a great question. Since Hi, guys, I was hanging out
with my group of friends today with my son. I'm
(05:48):
late twenties and first one in the group with a baby,
and on multiple occasions people turned and shushed my baby
with their finger on their mouth because he was babbling
or growling like a baby normally. Does it bothered me?
Is that weird? Because well, he's a baby and he
doesn't know any better, even at an age whereas noise
level is correctable. Advice please, but that felt rude? Or
(06:12):
should I be doing something to make my baby a
little bit quieter in public settings?
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Correcky?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't even get any and.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm an adult and I don't have an off switch.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Our babies are responding absolutely to the feelings inside themselves
and wanting to get a response from the environment, and
the biggest thing at this baby's age is working out
whether the world is safe. We know, trust versus mistrust,
safety attachment theories. It's the most important thing at the moment.
And what that little baby is doing is sending a
message to the environment and seeing if they're going to
(06:46):
get a positive response to show them that they're safe
and that they're accepted. So what I'm getting from the
responses of the other people is not what baby needs.
Baby is babbling, is checking out their voice, wanting hear
things and wanting to get a similar response, which would
be a similar babbel. You know, we go and then
baby gets it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We get it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That's what we want to do, and teach them how
to have a conversation going back and forth, even if
with sounds. So the parent is one hundred percent right,
we need to allow baby to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And they have no.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Cortex to be able to control behavior. So what we
would be doing is scaring them almost into not responding,
not teaching them to be quiet, if that makes sense.
So no, it's not a good response to a little
baby to shush them.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, and that would be a you know, a diplomatic
conversation with their friends to say, hey, you know, I
know what you're trying to do, but that is not
how you do it. Just to have that conversation to say,
you know, I'm the parent here and you know if
you're having a problem with that, then you can have
a check to me about it rather than shush my baby.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely, And the issue is that if we've all got kids,
we sort of understand it, but what they're saying is
the only one with a kid, so that other people
aren't used to it. Whereas if you sit around with
a bunch of babies and with your friends, we just
have to raise our voice a little bit louder to
hear each other, right, and we just know that that's
what's bub's going to carry on bubbling and bubbling, and
we'll acknowledge them every now and then.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So lovely though, it is really nice, particularly when it's
a happy babbling. I mean, it's a beautiful zeud and
they're trying.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
To engage themselves in the conversation. So think about having
a conversation just like everyone else.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, another good question here. It says Hi Catherine, my
ten year old daughter has expressed loneliness at school. My
daughter has just started a new school. When she got
home last week, I asked her how her day went.
She told me she really likes the teacher, but there
are a lot of popular kids in her class that
seem to ignore her. She has gone to the school
(08:47):
for the last week. She expressed to me that she
is feeling a bit lonely and doesn't know how to
interact with the other children. The teacher has been really good,
but I'm really fearful of this should I be?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I mean loneliness. We feel loneliness, and it is one
of the emotions that we have to learn to deal with.
But and it's only been a week, and sometimes we
take a while to get, you know, sort of into
the groove of things. What I would be looking at
is how is she acting? We've sort of got it
almost model. Just check in to see whether she's got
(09:22):
ways of introducing yourself to other people. You know, girls,
let's get real, especially girls, can be pretty cruel when
a new one comes in. So I mean a week's
not long, but staying confident in herself, staying and you know,
not sort of butting in and trying too hard. It's
highly likely she'll find someone her tribe. But it is
(09:43):
especially if it's a smaller school, which it could potentially
be when they're talking about it, and the girls have
got their cliques already, especially around that age, they can
really have a clique.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
So it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
We want to have a talk with the young girl
and we want to, you know, give us some advice.
This happened to me, Being lonely, being on your own
as a little bit normal, and then try and give
her a couple of chips of how to engage in
a conversation. What happened at school today, what were the
other girls doing. Okay, we might be able to try this.
So that's some of the things we might be able
to help with. But this world is a cruel place sometimes,
(10:16):
and I can give some advice, but I think she
has to just hope that the girls will warm up.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Our school can be an incredibly tough place for kids,
no doubt about that.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
I mean, it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Appears to be a good sign that the fact that
she's talked to her mum and she said, look I
am feeling a bit lonely. That must be a good sign,
right that communication is already there.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
She's got someone to talk to and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
So and being lonely for a while is not the
end of the world, did you know, But if it
went on for too long, yes, that could start getting
to be a problem.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah. Hi, Catherine, My sixteen year old daughter text me
earlier asking if she could go to a party tonight.
She said, the party starts at ten and if I
could drop her and her friend off. I know we
all snuck out and went to parties when we were younger.
I'm glad that she asked me first instead of lying,
But I'm just horn on whether I should let her
go or not. All these thoughts keep popping up on
(11:09):
my head about what could happen. Advice please, sixteen year
old just feels a bit young.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yes, he's sixteen. You think back to sixteen. I mean,
sixteen's actually an age that we sort of often were
already leaving home. You know, in my sort of generation
a bit older, and our kids in that age, they
really are trying to separate from the parent. They really
do need to call it in the adolescent age. Learning
to apply the brakes. Now, they don't have the best
(11:39):
brake system, so it is good for a parent to
put some boundaries around them, but they have to test
the brakes under good conditions, So if that parent lets
them go to this party, they know where they are,
they can set up some things. There's always that phone
call that they ring up and go, oh have you
put my purple jumper in the wash? I e come
and pick me up please?
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
So we've got some really safe boundaries. You know where
they are, what time they go in that sort of thing.
It would be better than saying no. Then that young
person next week decides they want to go to a party,
so they don't tell their parents. You don't know where
they are, do you know? If they're going to they're
going to be wanting to do these things. I want
to do them when I've got as much protection around
(12:23):
that child. So that would be my advice than not
my child. You've got you know, this parent knows their
child the best. It does feel young. But if they're
asking to go, they're going to find a way to
go at some stage. I'd rather be on their side.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Great advice. And certainly you know I was out at
parties at sixteen and did some silly things and mum,
you know, quite rightly said well now you know, but
you're right. The fact that she's talking to her mum
and asking and saying, here's where I'm going to be,
And as you say, the mom said, yep, but here's
how you can keep yourself safe in that part of
the conditions. Seems like a great place to be when
they're sixteen. Hi, Catherine, my fifteen month old throws tantrums
(13:02):
when he's grabbed something he shouldn't have and I take
it away, he flips out. I pull him away from
tearing apart a plant, he flips out. What do I
do in these situations?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Know that a kids are learning to activate their calming response,
and we can't do it until we learn, so it's
completely well, not completely normal, it's you know, it's quite
a normal behavior that we would see. And as long
as they don't last for ages, as long as they
don't absolutely you know they're doing it consistently, what I
(13:35):
would potentially say, now you've only given me a tiny
bit of information. But some of us are born with
higher personality types in certain areas, and it could be
that this young person, even at that age, has got
a higher desire to have control over their own environment,
which means when you control them, it's even harder for
them to deal with that. I'm not saying give them
(13:56):
control in that space. But I would be saying, actually,
I'm going to take this off you now it's not
okay to ever and then take it rather than so
you sort of joining in with them rather than overbearing them.
So it would be interesting to watch This young person
might have a you know, a real inclination towards controlling
their own environment, and when you control them, they find
(14:18):
it much harder to handle.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
So, but there are little ones.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
We can't have babies that don't have tear potentiums and
lose the plots. Yeah, talk to your friends and ask
your friends if you have friends with kids the same age,
and ask them. It's highly likely they'll say, oh, yeah,
my kid does the same thing. See if you're within
the bounds of normal with your other friends. Is always
a helpful thing for anyone listening to this. Even with
(14:46):
whatever age your kids are, try and find someone with
similar age and say, honestly, tell me how your kids
are behaving.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Fantastic. Yeah, great question and great advice. Hi Catherine, my
daughter is six and we are deciding whether or not
to continue home school. She hasn't show an interest in
going to school, but my husband is scared that can
coninuing to homeschool will stunt her developments? Is there any
evidence for this? Should we be worried.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Six six and almost sort of at the end close
that seven eight year old. Our kids rarely need to
start to develop another group of people outside of the
family unit and stuff, so because then when we hear adolescents,
it becomes even more important for them to have friendship groups.
And they have to have learned how to do all
that arguing, fighting, disagreeing when they're before puberty, because once
(15:39):
they hit that it gets really, really difficult. So allowing
her to have social situations where she literally has to
take turns, has to lose, has to do that that's
really important. Now, if you're homeschooling and ensuring that, I
don't know, you've got big sports events, you take them
to church, you're doing lots of things, and that's fine.
But if she's not getting that, then I would be
(16:02):
inclined to say she needs to get into a social
space where she has to negotiate a number of difficult
friendships because that is a really important thing to learn,
and you don't want to wait until she hits that
really difficult puberty time. For her brain to learn those
negotiations and learnings.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yep, really good, really good. Now this is a bit
of a long text, but again it's another doozy of
a question. Hi, I'm thirty one years old and I
have a two year old. I feel I have normal
expectations on how he behaves. Basically, I understand that there
is pretty much no impulse control and he has trouble
regulating emotions. At this age. I really get mad, and
(16:40):
my approach is usually to explain things to him calmly
and accept that he will act like a two year old.
My parents say he needs to learn to sit down
when they think he should sit at a meal for
forty five minutes, no screen time, and act like an adult.
They also say your no should mean no. He still
(17:01):
sometimes will grab their dog, and of course my parents
freak out. These are just a few examples, and it's NonStop.
They make me feel so on edge, and they always
put the comments about spanking, to which meme doesn't make
any logical sense for my style of parenting. I'm venting.
But also am I being strange here?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Don't we love our parents' desire to help us?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Now they are just trying to help and I can
hear that, and I got similar advice from my parents.
Of course what I want you to do. And absolutely
our young people have not got a cortex yet at
two years old. So the prefrontal cortex is the part
of the brain that makes a conscious decision to do
something or not. But at two years old, we can
learn conditioned responses, so we can go, oh, I better
(17:47):
not do that. Someone's gonna hurt me. You know, it's
not a conscious thought, it's just a conditioned response. Now
we do need to have our kids learning some conditioned responses.
I don't put your hand in the dog's mouth, you know,
and don't touch the hot things.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
But when we talk about behavior, what.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I want this person and to consider is do I
believe my child is reducing that negative behavior so they're
able to sit for longer at the dinner table. Now
they are able to control their behavior a little bit
more than they could till three weeks ago. As long
as that's happening, they are actually increasing this young two
(18:25):
year old's ability to physically regulate their stress response system.
And that can be done without a cortex. It's literally
learning to breathe, calm down, feel safe, and that's through
modeling and being with them. So it sounds like the
parent's way of doing it is absolutely fantastic. That's what
we want to do. We don't need to hit, we
(18:46):
don't need to spank, we don't need to yell. Obviously
sometimes will by the way, I did all of that
when a parent lost my and yelled. But yes, watch
the behavior and as long as the behavior is generalizingly
getting better and they're being able to control themselves more,
you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So what is actually going on from a neuroscience point
of view, because we all know there's a phrase there,
the terrible twos, is that just the period of development
where emotions are at all time highs. That's kind of
a critical part of development and there are a lot
of things happening in the brain at that point.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, so the terrific twos, and by the way, terrific
twos usually start about two and a half three years old,
so it's more likely and that's when the area of
the brain that we call the limbic area that holds
all that emotionality, and the way I explain it is
when our kids learn to walk, is all they wanted
to do is walk because they were in a sensitive
period to learn to walk, so you couldn't carry them.
Then as soon as they learn to walk, they said,
(19:42):
pick me up. Now they get to the emotional development,
and the brain says, we need to learn to feel angry, annoyed, stressed, anxious,
you know, frustrated. But then my body needs to learn
to calm down, and they're in a sensitive period for that.
So the brain says, why don't I turn up emotionality?
So I get frustrated at everything now, I get sad
(20:05):
at everything. Now, I giggle at everything now. So the
terrific two's are the brain sort of sand papered emotionally
so that you can feel more emotions, so that you
can learn to calm down from these emotions. So, yes,
it's a sort of a period of time where you'll
get significantly higher emotions. Possibly night terrors because they're dreams
(20:28):
before were dreams. Now they're scary because their emotionality is up.
So it is absolutely a higher level. But it's a
really positive time, and it's a time we have to
model calming down, breathing, going for walks, you know, bringing
that body back down to calm.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Great, Hi, Catherine, my sixteen year old son wants to
leave school, but he can't give me a plan for
what he wants to do next. Do I let him
drop out or encourage him to stay until he has
a plan.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Advice please, would definitely depend on how he's doing at school,
and I can as you say, my sixteen year old
son was at school was not doing well at all.
His whole belief in himself, his manner, his behavior was
right down low because of the way that he was
being seen at school, so he didn't feel very good. Luckily,
(21:20):
in Wellington we had this place called the Institute of Sport.
He could go there and do that and be doing something.
My advice is if they can do something, it doesn't
matter what work in a shop, that they're doing something
each day, they're getting up involving themselves, even if it's voluntary,
you're better if they're feeling really bad about themselves and
(21:41):
their whole personality is dropping, my advice is, and remember
I don't know much about your son, so please just
this is just advice from a person who doesn't know him.
If you think it's a good idea out, but yeah,
they do need to be doing something. He doesn't need
a plan. We don't have plans at that age, especially
if you're talking about boys. It's less likely they know.
(22:03):
But let's get him out doing something feeling good. Even
if it's only two days a week and three days
at school or something like that. It's not The school's
not the be all.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
And end all.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
My son's just actually just got a job as a
personal trainer after doing a year and a half at
the institute's sport doing really well. He wou He wouldn't
have done that if I'd stayed at school. He would
have been a wreck if I'd stayed.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So, yeah, that's something family, you know. I mean, if
the sixteen year old never thought of polytech or going
into some of those institutions, and perhaps once they start
going through what's on off and might start to get
a bit excited about something that pops up.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah, let's take them out and see that there's gateway
things at school if they can help them with that,
give them some opportunities, maybe talk to the careers people
if that's possible. I'm guessing that might have been done.
But leaving school's okay unless you think staying you know, possible,
But leaving school's okay as long as we're doing something.
But we don't need a plan because that's really hard
for them to have a futuristic plan sometimes.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, brilliant. If you've got a question for Catherine, keep
them coming in on nine two ninety two. That's the
text number you can email as well. Tyler at Newstalk
zb dot Co to nz and the phone number is
O eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Got to take a
break back very shortly here on the Parent Squad. It
is half past five. Welcome back into the Weekend Collective
(23:26):
and the Parents Squad, and we're joined by our expert
Katherine Burke at Neuroscience trainer at Engage Training. Thank you
again for your time, Catherine.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I'm more than welcome now.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
If you've got a question for Catherine, get in quick
because she's not with us for much longer. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call it.
You can take through on nine to ninety two. Plenty
of great text questions coming through. And again this one,
this is clearly a worried parents Catherine. It says, hi,
I now have a seven seven month old boy. He's
a really good eater and I started introducing pures at
(23:58):
five months. I always fed him with a little spoon.
It just seemed easiest to me. While he gets used
to tastes, but now he absolutely refuses to eat with
his hands. He eats from the spoon, but I can't
put a bowl in front of him and just let
him messy eat. I thought all babies would just dip
their hand in and suck on the food. He will
hold the spoon after I scoop up a bite onto it,
(24:20):
and he will eventually put it into his mouth, but
without that help, he absolutely won't eat independently. I'm worried.
Is there anything I should be doing here?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
And I mean I can give my advice, but babies,
babies another complicated we thing. So if you do keep
being worried, obviously get some pediatric advice. But you know,
it's seven months. There's all these beautiful things happening in
the brain. What they work out that they can control
you to a certain extent, which is, you know, I'm
not going to do anything unless you help me. So
(24:52):
it could be a just a It's like when they
drop the spoon and you pick it up. Drop the spoon,
pick it up they've worked out that they can control you,
and that's a really powerful thing. They learning cause and effect,
which is important with the messy stuff. And again it's
just a little thought in my head. We do have
some kids who don't like MESSI. They just literally don't
like MESSI and they won't ever do messy play. And
(25:14):
that's fine if they don't want to. The example being
if we don't let a kid crawl, they can have
quite bad outcomes they don't do crossing midlines and balancing.
But if we see a baby who naturally goes from
bum shuffling to walking and they don't crawl, they don't
have any negative effects because they didn't need to. Their
(25:36):
brain didn't need to. So if you allow messy play
and they don't want to do it, it's likely that
their brain doesn't need that or doesn't want that to
choose you what I mean. I don't like people stopping
kids MESSI playing, But if he really doesn't like it,
it's possible that he just is going to be one
of we know those people that just won't allow that
(25:58):
to happen, But just keep giving them the option. You
know exactly that it sounds like you're doing, but I
wouldn't panic too much at this age.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, great, another good question here. Hi guys, I'm a
thirty three year old mum to a six year old boy.
I always thought i'd have two kids, but it never
planned it never planned it out. When my son was
too we struggled to hold on to our jobs due
to the pandemic. Later we figured he had a severe
speech delay, which is getting better now after years of therapy.
(26:27):
We feel it's time to try for another baby, but
we are worried about and the age gap between the
children is a seven or eight year age gap. That bad.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Oh I would I'd say, if you want to have
another baby, you go for it.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
That's your desire.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I mean, there's nothing better is there than becoming a parent,
And if that's what you are going to try, No,
But what I'd be making sure is that you have
kids his age around him for him to be with,
because what happens when baby comes. His baby gets praised
for pulling and farting and crying, and he's not going
(27:02):
to get the attention for that. So making sure we've
got his tension there. But no, absolutely, we know people
with lots of age gaps like that, it's it's definitely
not a negative.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, I would, I would absolutely go for it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Fantastic help please. My ten year old refuses to tidy
her room and her pets items. It's an absolute mess,
many small things on the floor in the bed. She said,
it's her room and she likes it the way that
it is. She had just closed the door. If we
do not like seeing the mess, I told her she's
still living with us, so she has to go by
the rules. What is the correct thing to say in
(27:37):
these circumstances. It's a great teach.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Now, this is this is not a neuroscientist's advice. This
is Catherine the Mother advice. And don't waste your energy. Honestly,
don't waste your energy. I have exactly the same.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Thing in my house. My child is not tidy.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And I close the door and they will eventually get
sick of it. The ruler is there's no food in
the room if the room is dirty, you know, like
there's no food in the room because we don't want
rats and all that sort of stuff. And if the
go oh, I haven't got my clothes for whatever, it's
not my concerns. So there's natural consequences that will come
out of it. But you know what, if she wants
to have a messy room, she's exactly right if she
(28:18):
shut the door. That's my care for and advice because
you're wasting so much energy you're spending time that you
can just hang out with them and actually be positive,
and then eventually she might go, you know what, I
do want to have a tidy room. I'm sick of
it being messy. But if she doesn't, cause it's her room, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Ten year olds will be ten year olds, is what
you're saying, Catherine.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Yeah, and she'll change.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I would say she's more likely to change if you
just back off and ignore it. But I would have
some consequences. No, I'm not doing your washing or if
you need that, I haven't got my sports gear. Well
that's because your room's are messed, So it's not my biggie.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So there would have some consequences, and so she does
learn that there's consequence for that, but they would be
natural consequences and just save your energy.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
That's your energy.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Be a win win situation, right that. Hey, look, you know,
if you help pass out, will help you out. And
that's the strategy you're talking about there.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, give us some choice over the matter. But yeah,
some kids are just missing and that's just the way
they are.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, Hi, Catherine. Essentially, we have a beautiful, easy, happy
baby boy. He is super easy most of the time,
in just an absolute joy. But man, he hates to sleep.
I'm not sure exactly when it started, but he's seven
months old now, and he scream screams and cries, red
in the face, losing his voice, coughing and gagging type
(29:38):
screaming every time we try to put him to sleep.
The only way we've found to do it is by
doing an activity that makes him sleepy and letting them
fall to sleep by accident like car rides or watching TV.
Basically not letting him think or realize he's being put
to sleep. So my question is, is this Okay? Should
I not be doing this? I feel like we're tricking
him into going to sleep? Could this create bad habits?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
So, first of all, we're around this age and a
sort of started to the other seven month old. It's
called object permanence occurs potentially around this age, and object
permanence is when before if you put something under a cloth.
If you show the baby something and then you put
it under a cloth, they will just think it's gone.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
They can't see it it's gone.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But then around that age they will notice that it's gone.
So you could even test your baby and see if
they've got this, which means now when you leave the room,
they remember you and they miss you. Whereas before, sorry
to say, they didn't really care. They sort of as
long as someone was there to look after them. But
now they're going to miss that primary person very often.
(30:41):
So it could be that he's going through object permanence,
which makes it even more scary to be separated from
you at the moment, which is why it could be escalating.
The thing with sleeping is it's a physical practice. So
the body needs to wind down, it needs to activate malatonin,
and it needs to go to sleep. It doesn't matter
how that happens. If you get that happening and he
(31:02):
goes into a nice sleep and he sleeps and he
wakes up, you are gone. I want to teach your
body to start doing that, and then he'll be fitter
to do that himself. Laying with our babies, singing to
our babies, helping them go to sleep, is not a problem.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
We've got a.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Westernized vision of our kids should go to bed and
sleep by themselves. That's not the way that we've done
it naturally. I slept with my babies to put them
to sleep when they were little. I didn't make for
a rod from home back. They got to sleep by
themselves because I helped their bodies practice that. And it
sounds like that's what's happening here. They're practicing go to sleep,
(31:39):
and then we'll try and do it without the car
one day and see if it weeks night, let's go
back to that. So we're sort of like, you know,
just practicing it in the body and then trying to
extend it without those tools. But no, our babies sleeping,
it's hard for them to go to sleep, and they
are scared without us.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Know, our babies.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Shouldn't be sleeping by themselves. I'm not talking about sleeping
post sleeping. I'm talking about they need to hear us breathing,
feel safe with us for their bodies to relax and
get to sleep. And some kids more than others.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm sure that will give that text for a lot
of comfort. And I mean it is. It is a
stressful thing. For new parents. Isn't it clearly that all
these things are happening and you're trying your best to do,
you know, to be a parent and to look after
your child, and you're worried about all these things that
you're doing. Is this going to have an impact down
the line, And what you're saying is you just got
to go with it and do what works best for
you to the best of your ability and it will.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Work oututely and careful of those social media posts, oh
my child's sleeping through the night. Yeah, they're probably naturally
going to do it anyway, but why it's much worse
now we only get the good news. Honestly, Ask your
friends are your babies sleeping and they'll be going, oh
my goodness, or as much. You know, let's be honest
with each other, which is really helpful as parents. You
(32:52):
know it's hard, it's hard, but just do the best
you can as a parent.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Catherine, You're great, really good to chat
with you, and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
No, absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That is Catherine Burkett, neuroscience trainer at Engage Training. A
fascinating text that came through so thank you very much.
Right after the break, we're going to catch up with
our voice of rugby in South Africa, Elliott Smith. Big
match on tomorrow morning, three am kickoff All Blacks v
South Africa. We lost the first one. Can we win
the second one that's coming up very shortly. It is
(33:26):
seven minutes to no seventeen minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'd be good afternoon. Welcome back into the week in Collective.
Tyler Adams fillnon for Tim Beverage. He is banked tomorrow
and it is time for the parents Squad. Catherine Burkett
is a neuroscience trainer at Engaged Training and she joins us. Now.
Hi are you Katherine? Hi? Really good to chat and
nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How's your weekend gone so far?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well, today was a good one.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I flew to Blenheim and back from Wellington, so if
anybody's seen the wind out there.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
Was a good good day for flying.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Oh, bed, I bet so what was happening in Blenham?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I had a conference down there, so went down.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, very good. Lovely part of the country there isn't
it isn't it? Did you bring home some wine?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I actually was gifted some fine so yes I did,
and which.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is pretty lucky, fantastic. If you've got a question for Catherine,
or indeed a bit of advice for our audience, I'd
love to hear from you. We'd love to hear from you. Oh,
eight one hundred and eighty teen eighty is the number
to call. You can also tech through to nine two
ninety two and if you want to email, you're more
than welcome Tyler at news talk zeb dot co dot Nz. Catherine,
let's start a big story this week about Hagley College
(01:20):
is offering twenty NCEEA Level two students two days of
online learning a week. And I do know that there
are several high schools colleges around New Zealand that are
starting to look at that model as well, to allow
some of the senior students a couple of days a
week to have what they call learning from home, which
was effectively work from home for adults. Ryan, do you
(01:43):
see any risks with that approach from some of these
institutions and colleges or can that be an effective way
to teach these older children about self management?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, And it's like.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
With all things when we're talking about human beings, we
cannot put us all into one box, even if we're
the same.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Age or so.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
And in the article that was quite interesting because they
said they were trying to cater towards neurodiverse students, but
actually one of the students was saying that she wants
to get a part time job so it was going
to work for her. So she's obviously a very motivated
young lady and I would guess something like that's going to.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Work for her.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
But if you have got someone who is finding work
difficult and that's why they're not doing it, then allowing
them to work from home is probably not the best option.
But again, Hagley College themselves have said they're putting in
lots and lots of thought processes around that and stop gaps.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
But you do need to be careful.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
We're very relational creatures and our brain responds much better
to humans rather than computers, so it is hard to
get motivated to do work without humans around to an extent.
So I would see some risks absolutely, but again it
would depend on the individual.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, I mean on the attendance side of things. And
just from a neuroscience point of view, you a child's brain,
is it somewhat more problematic for children while their brain
is still developing to be able to manage that workload themselves,
as you say, to distance themselves from distractions. And we
all get distracted. It's a distracting world at the moment,
(03:20):
no doubt about it. But at that stage of brain development,
is there more risk in them.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, unless you've got someone like someone an adult who's
able to sort of keep that motivation going. And you know,
and again some kids are just incredibly able to do
that for themselves. But and in generalized sense, our brain
can't really think forward properly until about fifteen sixteen years old,
So it's very hard for us to go, you know what,
if I get this assignment finished, then three weeks time,
(03:48):
I won't have to do so much work, or in
ten years I'll have a good job. So that's not
really the capacity of the brain until we're sort of
fifteen sixteen. So, like I said, some kids will just
do it naturally, but for us, we go, Okay, I've
got to get this stuff done because my pay's got
to come in. It is hard for a child's brain
to do that. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And what about for the parents if your child is
at home for another couple of days a week and
they are meant to be you know, doing school work
and learning, I mean, that's got to be hard for
parents to manage, right. Are there any tricks to you know,
not bombard them or micro manage them and say, hey,
make sure you're doing your book work here. You meant
to be working, not, you know, lounging around at home.
Is there any tips and tricks for parents if they're
(04:30):
in that situation?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And I guess, you know, we all sort of experienced
a bit of that of working from home during COVID,
And I know I learned a really big lesson with
my son. He was sixteen at the time, and he
had to get some work done and I looked in
and he had his phone next to him, he had
the TV going, and he had the radiot or something,
and I was like, oh, And I instantly wanted to say,
(04:53):
turn all that off and get your work done. But
what I said to him is, can I have a
look at what you've done so far? And what is
your goal for today? And he had a quite clear goal,
and I said, if you can get that done, then
you can study like this. If you can't get it done,
then this is not okay. And he got it done beautifully.
And I think we have to be really careful of
assuming our kids learn like we do. So I urge
(05:17):
parents to give them a chance to prove it. If
they can't, then you sort of take some control.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
But some of our.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Kids do really well with lots of distractions going on.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Now, yeah, absolutely, Now, if you've got a question for Catherine, Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
All you can teach through on nine two nine two.
A doozy of a question has come through Catherine, and
they haven't they haven't put their name, but this is
a great question. Since Hi, guys, I was hanging out
with my group of friends today with my son. I'm
(05:48):
late twenties and first one in the group with a baby,
and on multiple occasions people turned and shushed my baby
with their finger on their mouth because he was babbling
or growling like a baby normally. Does it bothered me?
Is that weird? Because well, he's a baby and he
doesn't know any better, even at an age whereas noise
level is correctable. Advice please, but that felt rude? Or
(06:12):
should I be doing something to make my baby a
little bit quieter in public settings?
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Correcky?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't even get any and.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm an adult and I don't have an off switch.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Our babies are responding absolutely to the feelings inside themselves
and wanting to get a response from the environment, and
the biggest thing at this baby's age is working out
whether the world is safe. We know, trust versus mistrust,
safety attachment theories. It's the most important thing at the moment.
And what that little baby is doing is sending a
message to the environment and seeing if they're going to
(06:46):
get a positive response to show them that they're safe
and that they're accepted. So what I'm getting from the
responses of the other people is not what baby needs.
Baby is babbling, is checking out their voice, wanting hear
things and wanting to get a similar response, which would
be a similar babbel. You know, we go and then
baby gets it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We get it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That's what we want to do, and teach them how
to have a conversation going back and forth, even if
with sounds. So the parent is one hundred percent right,
we need to allow baby to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And they have no.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Cortex to be able to control behavior. So what we
would be doing is scaring them almost into not responding,
not teaching them to be quiet, if that makes sense.
So no, it's not a good response to a little
baby to shush them.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, and that would be a you know, a diplomatic
conversation with their friends to say, hey, you know, I
know what you're trying to do, but that is not
how you do it. Just to have that conversation to say,
you know, I'm the parent here and you know if
you're having a problem with that, then you can have
a check to me about it rather than shush my baby.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely, And the issue is that if we've all got kids,
we sort of understand it, but what they're saying is
the only one with a kid, so that other people
aren't used to it. Whereas if you sit around with
a bunch of babies and with your friends, we just
have to raise our voice a little bit louder to
hear each other, right, and we just know that that's
what's bub's going to carry on bubbling and bubbling, and
we'll acknowledge them every now and then.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So lovely though, it is really nice, particularly when it's
a happy babbling. I mean, it's a beautiful zeud and
they're trying.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
To engage themselves in the conversation. So think about having
a conversation just like everyone else.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, another good question here. It says Hi Catherine, my
ten year old daughter has expressed loneliness at school. My
daughter has just started a new school. When she got
home last week, I asked her how her day went.
She told me she really likes the teacher, but there
are a lot of popular kids in her class that
seem to ignore her. She has gone to the school
(08:47):
for the last week. She expressed to me that she
is feeling a bit lonely and doesn't know how to
interact with the other children. The teacher has been really good,
but I'm really fearful of this should I be?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I mean loneliness. We feel loneliness, and it is one
of the emotions that we have to learn to deal with.
But and it's only been a week, and sometimes we
take a while to get, you know, sort of into
the groove of things. What I would be looking at
is how is she acting? We've sort of got it
almost model. Just check in to see whether she's got
(09:22):
ways of introducing yourself to other people. You know, girls,
let's get real, especially girls, can be pretty cruel when
a new one comes in. So I mean a week's
not long, but staying confident in herself, staying and you know,
not sort of butting in and trying too hard. It's
highly likely she'll find someone her tribe. But it is
(09:43):
especially if it's a smaller school, which it could potentially
be when they're talking about it, and the girls have
got their cliques already, especially around that age, they can
really have a clique.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
So it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
We want to have a talk with the young girl
and we want to, you know, give us some advice.
This happened to me, Being lonely, being on your own
as a little bit normal, and then try and give
her a couple of chips of how to engage in
a conversation. What happened at school today, what were the
other girls doing. Okay, we might be able to try this.
So that's some of the things we might be able
to help with. But this world is a cruel place sometimes,
(10:16):
and I can give some advice, but I think she
has to just hope that the girls will warm up.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Our school can be an incredibly tough place for kids,
no doubt about that.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
I mean, it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Appears to be a good sign that the fact that
she's talked to her mum and she said, look I
am feeling a bit lonely. That must be a good sign,
right that communication is already there.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
She's got someone to talk to and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
So and being lonely for a while is not the
end of the world, did you know, But if it
went on for too long, yes, that could start getting
to be a problem.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah. Hi, Catherine, My sixteen year old daughter text me
earlier asking if she could go to a party tonight.
She said, the party starts at ten and if I
could drop her and her friend off. I know we
all snuck out and went to parties when we were younger.
I'm glad that she asked me first instead of lying,
But I'm just horn on whether I should let her
go or not. All these thoughts keep popping up on
(11:09):
my head about what could happen. Advice please, sixteen year
old just feels a bit young.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yes, he's sixteen. You think back to sixteen. I mean,
sixteen's actually an age that we sort of often were
already leaving home. You know, in my sort of generation
a bit older, and our kids in that age, they
really are trying to separate from the parent. They really
do need to call it in the adolescent age. Learning
to apply the brakes. Now, they don't have the best
(11:39):
brake system, so it is good for a parent to
put some boundaries around them, but they have to test
the brakes under good conditions, So if that parent lets
them go to this party, they know where they are,
they can set up some things. There's always that phone
call that they ring up and go, oh have you
put my purple jumper in the wash? I e come
and pick me up please?
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
So we've got some really safe boundaries. You know where
they are, what time they go in that sort of thing.
It would be better than saying no. Then that young
person next week decides they want to go to a party,
so they don't tell their parents. You don't know where
they are, do you know? If they're going to they're
going to be wanting to do these things. I want
to do them when I've got as much protection around
(12:23):
that child. So that would be my advice than not
my child. You've got you know, this parent knows their
child the best. It does feel young. But if they're
asking to go, they're going to find a way to
go at some stage. I'd rather be on their side.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Great advice. And certainly you know I was out at
parties at sixteen and did some silly things and mum,
you know, quite rightly said well now you know, but
you're right. The fact that she's talking to her mum
and asking and saying, here's where I'm going to be,
And as you say, the mom said, yep, but here's
how you can keep yourself safe in that part of
the conditions. Seems like a great place to be when
they're sixteen. Hi, Catherine, my fifteen month old throws tantrums
(13:02):
when he's grabbed something he shouldn't have and I take
it away, he flips out. I pull him away from
tearing apart a plant, he flips out. What do I
do in these situations?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Know that a kids are learning to activate their calming response,
and we can't do it until we learn, so it's
completely well, not completely normal, it's you know, it's quite
a normal behavior that we would see. And as long
as they don't last for ages, as long as they
don't absolutely you know they're doing it consistently, what I
(13:35):
would potentially say, now you've only given me a tiny
bit of information. But some of us are born with
higher personality types in certain areas, and it could be
that this young person, even at that age, has got
a higher desire to have control over their own environment,
which means when you control them, it's even harder for
them to deal with that. I'm not saying give them
(13:56):
control in that space. But I would be saying, actually,
I'm going to take this off you now it's not
okay to ever and then take it rather than so
you sort of joining in with them rather than overbearing them.
So it would be interesting to watch This young person
might have a you know, a real inclination towards controlling
their own environment, and when you control them, they find
(14:18):
it much harder to handle.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
So, but there are little ones.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
We can't have babies that don't have tear potentiums and
lose the plots. Yeah, talk to your friends and ask
your friends if you have friends with kids the same age,
and ask them. It's highly likely they'll say, oh, yeah,
my kid does the same thing. See if you're within
the bounds of normal with your other friends. Is always
a helpful thing for anyone listening to this. Even with
(14:46):
whatever age your kids are, try and find someone with
similar age and say, honestly, tell me how your kids
are behaving.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Fantastic. Yeah, great question and great advice. Hi Catherine, my
daughter is six and we are deciding whether or not
to continue home school. She hasn't show an interest in
going to school, but my husband is scared that can
coninuing to homeschool will stunt her developments? Is there any
evidence for this? Should we be worried.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Six six and almost sort of at the end close
that seven eight year old. Our kids rarely need to
start to develop another group of people outside of the
family unit and stuff, so because then when we hear adolescents,
it becomes even more important for them to have friendship groups.
And they have to have learned how to do all
that arguing, fighting, disagreeing when they're before puberty, because once
(15:39):
they hit that it gets really, really difficult. So allowing
her to have social situations where she literally has to
take turns, has to lose, has to do that that's
really important. Now, if you're homeschooling and ensuring that, I
don't know, you've got big sports events, you take them
to church, you're doing lots of things, and that's fine.
But if she's not getting that, then I would be
(16:02):
inclined to say she needs to get into a social
space where she has to negotiate a number of difficult
friendships because that is a really important thing to learn,
and you don't want to wait until she hits that
really difficult puberty time. For her brain to learn those
negotiations and learnings.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yep, really good, really good. Now this is a bit
of a long text, but again it's another doozy of
a question. Hi, I'm thirty one years old and I
have a two year old. I feel I have normal
expectations on how he behaves. Basically, I understand that there
is pretty much no impulse control and he has trouble
regulating emotions. At this age. I really get mad, and
(16:40):
my approach is usually to explain things to him calmly
and accept that he will act like a two year old.
My parents say he needs to learn to sit down
when they think he should sit at a meal for
forty five minutes, no screen time, and act like an adult.
They also say your no should mean no. He still
(17:01):
sometimes will grab their dog, and of course my parents
freak out. These are just a few examples, and it's NonStop.
They make me feel so on edge, and they always
put the comments about spanking, to which meme doesn't make
any logical sense for my style of parenting. I'm venting.
But also am I being strange here?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Don't we love our parents' desire to help us?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Now they are just trying to help and I can
hear that, and I got similar advice from my parents.
Of course what I want you to do. And absolutely
our young people have not got a cortex yet at
two years old. So the prefrontal cortex is the part
of the brain that makes a conscious decision to do
something or not. But at two years old, we can
learn conditioned responses, so we can go, oh, I better
(17:47):
not do that. Someone's gonna hurt me. You know, it's
not a conscious thought, it's just a conditioned response. Now
we do need to have our kids learning some conditioned responses.
I don't put your hand in the dog's mouth, you know,
and don't touch the hot things.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
But when we talk about behavior, what.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I want this person and to consider is do I
believe my child is reducing that negative behavior so they're
able to sit for longer at the dinner table. Now
they are able to control their behavior a little bit
more than they could till three weeks ago. As long
as that's happening, they are actually increasing this young two
(18:25):
year old's ability to physically regulate their stress response system.
And that can be done without a cortex. It's literally
learning to breathe, calm down, feel safe, and that's through
modeling and being with them. So it sounds like the
parent's way of doing it is absolutely fantastic. That's what
we want to do. We don't need to hit, we
(18:46):
don't need to spank, we don't need to yell. Obviously
sometimes will by the way, I did all of that
when a parent lost my and yelled. But yes, watch
the behavior and as long as the behavior is generalizingly
getting better and they're being able to control themselves more,
you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So what is actually going on from a neuroscience point
of view, because we all know there's a phrase there,
the terrible twos, is that just the period of development
where emotions are at all time highs. That's kind of
a critical part of development and there are a lot
of things happening in the brain at that point.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, so the terrific twos, and by the way, terrific
twos usually start about two and a half three years old,
so it's more likely and that's when the area of
the brain that we call the limbic area that holds
all that emotionality, and the way I explain it is
when our kids learn to walk, is all they wanted
to do is walk because they were in a sensitive
period to learn to walk, so you couldn't carry them.
Then as soon as they learn to walk, they said,
(19:42):
pick me up. Now they get to the emotional development,
and the brain says, we need to learn to feel angry, annoyed, stressed, anxious,
you know, frustrated. But then my body needs to learn
to calm down, and they're in a sensitive period for that.
So the brain says, why don't I turn up emotionality?
So I get frustrated at everything now, I get sad
(20:05):
at everything. Now, I giggle at everything now. So the
terrific two's are the brain sort of sand papered emotionally
so that you can feel more emotions, so that you
can learn to calm down from these emotions. So, yes,
it's a sort of a period of time where you'll
get significantly higher emotions. Possibly night terrors because they're dreams
(20:28):
before were dreams. Now they're scary because their emotionality is up.
So it is absolutely a higher level. But it's a
really positive time, and it's a time we have to
model calming down, breathing, going for walks, you know, bringing
that body back down to calm.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Great, Hi, Catherine, my sixteen year old son wants to
leave school, but he can't give me a plan for
what he wants to do next. Do I let him
drop out or encourage him to stay until he has
a plan.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Advice please, would definitely depend on how he's doing at school,
and I can as you say, my sixteen year old
son was at school was not doing well at all.
His whole belief in himself, his manner, his behavior was
right down low because of the way that he was
being seen at school, so he didn't feel very good. Luckily,
(21:20):
in Wellington we had this place called the Institute of Sport.
He could go there and do that and be doing something.
My advice is if they can do something, it doesn't
matter what work in a shop, that they're doing something
each day, they're getting up involving themselves, even if it's voluntary,
you're better if they're feeling really bad about themselves and
(21:41):
their whole personality is dropping, my advice is, and remember
I don't know much about your son, so please just
this is just advice from a person who doesn't know him.
If you think it's a good idea out, but yeah,
they do need to be doing something. He doesn't need
a plan. We don't have plans at that age, especially
if you're talking about boys. It's less likely they know.
(22:03):
But let's get him out doing something feeling good. Even
if it's only two days a week and three days
at school or something like that. It's not The school's
not the be all.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
And end all.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
My son's just actually just got a job as a
personal trainer after doing a year and a half at
the institute's sport doing really well. He wou He wouldn't
have done that if I'd stayed at school. He would
have been a wreck if I'd stayed.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So, yeah, that's something family, you know. I mean, if
the sixteen year old never thought of polytech or going
into some of those institutions, and perhaps once they start
going through what's on off and might start to get
a bit excited about something that pops up.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah, let's take them out and see that there's gateway
things at school if they can help them with that,
give them some opportunities, maybe talk to the careers people
if that's possible. I'm guessing that might have been done.
But leaving school's okay unless you think staying you know, possible,
But leaving school's okay as long as we're doing something.
But we don't need a plan because that's really hard
for them to have a futuristic plan sometimes.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, brilliant. If you've got a question for Catherine, keep
them coming in on nine two ninety two. That's the
text number you can email as well. Tyler at Newstalk
zb dot Co to nz and the phone number is
O eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Got to take a
break back very shortly here on the Parent Squad. It
is half past five. Welcome back into the Weekend Collective
(23:26):
and the Parents Squad, and we're joined by our expert
Katherine Burke at Neuroscience trainer at Engage Training. Thank you
again for your time, Catherine.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I'm more than welcome now.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
If you've got a question for Catherine, get in quick
because she's not with us for much longer. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call it.
You can take through on nine to ninety two. Plenty
of great text questions coming through. And again this one,
this is clearly a worried parents Catherine. It says, hi,
I now have a seven seven month old boy. He's
a really good eater and I started introducing pures at
(23:58):
five months. I always fed him with a little spoon.
It just seemed easiest to me. While he gets used
to tastes, but now he absolutely refuses to eat with
his hands. He eats from the spoon, but I can't
put a bowl in front of him and just let
him messy eat. I thought all babies would just dip
their hand in and suck on the food. He will
hold the spoon after I scoop up a bite onto it,
(24:20):
and he will eventually put it into his mouth, but
without that help, he absolutely won't eat independently. I'm worried.
Is there anything I should be doing here?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
And I mean I can give my advice, but babies,
babies another complicated we thing. So if you do keep
being worried, obviously get some pediatric advice. But you know,
it's seven months. There's all these beautiful things happening in
the brain. What they work out that they can control
you to a certain extent, which is, you know, I'm
not going to do anything unless you help me. So
(24:52):
it could be a just a It's like when they
drop the spoon and you pick it up. Drop the spoon,
pick it up they've worked out that they can control you,
and that's a really powerful thing. They learning cause and effect,
which is important with the messy stuff. And again it's
just a little thought in my head. We do have
some kids who don't like MESSI. They just literally don't
like MESSI and they won't ever do messy play. And
(25:14):
that's fine if they don't want to. The example being
if we don't let a kid crawl, they can have
quite bad outcomes they don't do crossing midlines and balancing.
But if we see a baby who naturally goes from
bum shuffling to walking and they don't crawl, they don't
have any negative effects because they didn't need to. Their
(25:36):
brain didn't need to. So if you allow messy play
and they don't want to do it, it's likely that
their brain doesn't need that or doesn't want that to
choose you what I mean. I don't like people stopping
kids MESSI playing, But if he really doesn't like it,
it's possible that he just is going to be one
of we know those people that just won't allow that
(25:58):
to happen, But just keep giving them the option. You
know exactly that it sounds like you're doing, but I
wouldn't panic too much at this age.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, great, another good question here. Hi guys, I'm a
thirty three year old mum to a six year old boy.
I always thought i'd have two kids, but it never
planned it never planned it out. When my son was
too we struggled to hold on to our jobs due
to the pandemic. Later we figured he had a severe
speech delay, which is getting better now after years of therapy.
(26:27):
We feel it's time to try for another baby, but
we are worried about and the age gap between the
children is a seven or eight year age gap. That bad.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Oh I would I'd say, if you want to have
another baby, you go for it.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
That's your desire.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I mean, there's nothing better is there than becoming a parent,
And if that's what you are going to try, No,
But what I'd be making sure is that you have
kids his age around him for him to be with,
because what happens when baby comes. His baby gets praised
for pulling and farting and crying, and he's not going
(27:02):
to get the attention for that. So making sure we've
got his tension there. But no, absolutely, we know people
with lots of age gaps like that, it's it's definitely
not a negative.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, I would, I would absolutely go for it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Fantastic help please. My ten year old refuses to tidy
her room and her pets items. It's an absolute mess,
many small things on the floor in the bed. She said,
it's her room and she likes it the way that
it is. She had just closed the door. If we
do not like seeing the mess, I told her she's
still living with us, so she has to go by
the rules. What is the correct thing to say in
(27:37):
these circumstances. It's a great teach.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Now, this is this is not a neuroscientist's advice. This
is Catherine the Mother advice. And don't waste your energy. Honestly,
don't waste your energy. I have exactly the same.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Thing in my house. My child is not tidy.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And I close the door and they will eventually get
sick of it. The ruler is there's no food in
the room if the room is dirty, you know, like
there's no food in the room because we don't want
rats and all that sort of stuff. And if the
go oh, I haven't got my clothes for whatever, it's
not my concerns. So there's natural consequences that will come
out of it. But you know what, if she wants
to have a messy room, she's exactly right if she
(28:18):
shut the door. That's my care for and advice because
you're wasting so much energy you're spending time that you
can just hang out with them and actually be positive,
and then eventually she might go, you know what, I
do want to have a tidy room. I'm sick of
it being messy. But if she doesn't, cause it's her room, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Ten year olds will be ten year olds, is what
you're saying, Catherine.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Yeah, and she'll change.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I would say she's more likely to change if you
just back off and ignore it. But I would have
some consequences. No, I'm not doing your washing or if
you need that, I haven't got my sports gear. Well
that's because your room's are messed, So it's not my biggie.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So there would have some consequences, and so she does
learn that there's consequence for that, but they would be
natural consequences and just save your energy.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
That's your energy.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Be a win win situation, right that. Hey, look, you know,
if you help pass out, will help you out. And
that's the strategy you're talking about there.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, give us some choice over the matter. But yeah,
some kids are just missing and that's just the way
they are.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, Hi, Catherine. Essentially, we have a beautiful, easy, happy
baby boy. He is super easy most of the time,
in just an absolute joy. But man, he hates to sleep.
I'm not sure exactly when it started, but he's seven
months old now, and he scream screams and cries, red
in the face, losing his voice, coughing and gagging type
(29:38):
screaming every time we try to put him to sleep.
The only way we've found to do it is by
doing an activity that makes him sleepy and letting them
fall to sleep by accident like car rides or watching TV.
Basically not letting him think or realize he's being put
to sleep. So my question is, is this Okay? Should
I not be doing this? I feel like we're tricking
him into going to sleep? Could this create bad habits?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
So, first of all, we're around this age and a
sort of started to the other seven month old. It's
called object permanence occurs potentially around this age, and object
permanence is when before if you put something under a cloth.
If you show the baby something and then you put
it under a cloth, they will just think it's gone.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
They can't see it it's gone.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But then around that age they will notice that it's gone.
So you could even test your baby and see if
they've got this, which means now when you leave the room,
they remember you and they miss you. Whereas before, sorry
to say, they didn't really care. They sort of as
long as someone was there to look after them. But
now they're going to miss that primary person very often.
(30:41):
So it could be that he's going through object permanence,
which makes it even more scary to be separated from
you at the moment, which is why it could be escalating.
The thing with sleeping is it's a physical practice. So
the body needs to wind down, it needs to activate malatonin,
and it needs to go to sleep. It doesn't matter
how that happens. If you get that happening and he
(31:02):
goes into a nice sleep and he sleeps and he
wakes up, you are gone. I want to teach your
body to start doing that, and then he'll be fitter
to do that himself. Laying with our babies, singing to
our babies, helping them go to sleep, is not a problem.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
We've got a.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Westernized vision of our kids should go to bed and
sleep by themselves. That's not the way that we've done
it naturally. I slept with my babies to put them
to sleep when they were little. I didn't make for
a rod from home back. They got to sleep by
themselves because I helped their bodies practice that. And it
sounds like that's what's happening here. They're practicing go to sleep,
(31:39):
and then we'll try and do it without the car
one day and see if it weeks night, let's go
back to that. So we're sort of like, you know,
just practicing it in the body and then trying to
extend it without those tools. But no, our babies sleeping,
it's hard for them to go to sleep, and they
are scared without us.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Know, our babies.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Shouldn't be sleeping by themselves. I'm not talking about sleeping
post sleeping. I'm talking about they need to hear us breathing,
feel safe with us for their bodies to relax and
get to sleep. And some kids more than others.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm sure that will give that text for a lot
of comfort. And I mean it is. It is a
stressful thing. For new parents. Isn't it clearly that all
these things are happening and you're trying your best to do,
you know, to be a parent and to look after
your child, and you're worried about all these things that
you're doing. Is this going to have an impact down
the line, And what you're saying is you just got
to go with it and do what works best for
you to the best of your ability and it will.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Work oututely and careful of those social media posts, oh
my child's sleeping through the night. Yeah, they're probably naturally
going to do it anyway, but why it's much worse
now we only get the good news. Honestly, Ask your
friends are your babies sleeping and they'll be going, oh
my goodness, or as much. You know, let's be honest
with each other, which is really helpful as parents. You
(32:52):
know it's hard, it's hard, but just do the best
you can as a parent.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Catherine, You're great, really good to chat
with you, and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
No, absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That is Catherine Burkett, neuroscience trainer at Engage Training. A
fascinating text that came through so thank you very much.
Right after the break, we're going to catch up with
our voice of rugby in South Africa, Elliott Smith. Big
match on tomorrow morning, three am kickoff All Blacks v
South Africa. We lost the first one. Can we win
the second one that's coming up very shortly. It is
(33:26):
seven minutes to no seventeen minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
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