January 4, 2025 • 17 mins
'I struggled with it': Rick Astley opens up about the pitfalls of stardom
80’s hit-maker Rick Astley has opened up about the less glamourous parts that come with fame.
After Astley released his debut album Whenever You Need Somebody in 1987, featuring the iconic Never Gonna Give You Up, he topped the charts across 25 different countries - but he pulled back from the spotlight 6 years later.
His new memoir Never: The Autobiography explores the dangerous - and monotonous - parts of his unique music career.
"I struggled with it a lot. There's parts of it that are fun and there's parts of it that were more fun than when I was truly actually famous. I think now I get to enjoy it - and it's a bit more of a switch now."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh, look, doesn't this bring back memories? One of the
biggest hits of the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I've got this vision of my older brother dancing in
his bedroom beside. Oh sorry Marcus, but yeah no used
to love this little number. Released in nineteen eighty seven,
Never Going to Give You Up introduced to young Rick
Ashley to the pop world and completely changed his life.
What followed was a best selling album with millions of
sales worldwide tours, a whirlwind of TV appearances and all
(00:38):
the scrutiny that comes with fame, and after only six years,
Rick retired and walked away. He has shared his journey
and thoughts on fame in his first ever memoir, Never
Is in stores now and Rick Ashley joins me.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Rick, good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You've been asked to write an autobiography before you turn
down the opportunity. Why now?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I think it's been a few things, to be honest.
One of the things is that I've fifty and I'm
going to start forgetting things. I'm already forgetting most things,
so I'll forget most of my life and career, I
think if I carry on more importantly, my mum and
dad both passed away in the last few years, and
I felt I really wanted to be honest because I
wanted to be honest about everything in the book, but
(01:22):
especially about my upbringing because it wasn't particularly an easy upbringing.
I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me, because
I've had a great life, and I think that that
upbringing kind of pushed me to want to do several things,
one of which was have a stable family life. And
I've been with the same woman since nineteen eighty nine
and we have a thirty two year old daughter, so
(01:45):
my two older brothers and my older sister all in
long term relationships. But our mom and dad divorced when
I was about four, and I'm the youngest of the
four kids, and just various things within my childhood I
think pushed me towards once in a career, basically on stage,
if you like, if that's what we're putting it down to,
because I think I wanted love and wherever I could
(02:07):
get it, because I don't feel I got enough from
my mom and dad in a nutshell, and I don't
blame them. They had a very very tough life themselves,
and they had a very terrible experience where they lost
a son before I was born and before the next earl,
this Mike, was born, So just dealing with that and
other things, I think it was incredibly tough for them.
And obviously I was brought up in my dad's house
(02:30):
and obviously that I think is again it was very
strange back then. So there were just a lot of
things in my childhood that pushed me to have this
pop career, if you like. And it's not as simple
as that sentence explains it, but yeah, I just wanted
to be really honest and actually delve into it a bit,
you know, No.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You absolutely do. What was it like being a teenager
in the early eighties in the north of England.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Well, I wouldn't say great, if I'm honest. The little
town that I'm from was kind of a tough town,
I think. I mean, it's not like the typical you
know story of like, oh it was grim up north,
as British people say, but it wasn't. It wasn't sexy
and exciting less prove it that way, And there wasn't
(03:16):
a lot of opportunities really in terms of like trying
to get into a band and stuff. There were a
couple of bands in my school, one of which I
was in and I was the drummer, and then I
went on to join another band later after school days
and stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
But it wasn't exactly like a hotbed of music.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
A little town that I'm from, and we had Manchester
and Liverpool either side of us, kind of like twenty
miles each way either way. But I think in terms
of like I what was part of my weekly routine
was to go to the local cricket club to a
disco and here DJ's play kind of cool records, not
(03:53):
just the pop records that were in the charts, but
cool records. And I kind of loved that and that
was a bit of salvation, I think, and just being
in a band with some friends that was as well,
you know what I mean, It really kind of it
was getting me out of my home life that way,
and I kind of needed that thing. But it wasn't
It wasn't great. I don't look back on living in
newtlu Willows where I'm from, as an amazing experience, to
(04:14):
be honest, not doing it any disservice, but I am
doing it a bit of disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But they go, how did you get adamusion?
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Well, I met a guy called Pete Waterman who was
part of the you know about to be fabulous stock
Ache in Waterman, who dominated the pop charts for quite
a while. But when he saw me, I was in
a band with some friends and we were okay, you know,
we were playing the local pub scene and stuff like that,
but we weren't great and he wasn't interested in signing
(04:41):
a band. He just wanted to sign singers, and I
didn't know who was but he had red leather pants
and he had a jack, so I thought that'll do.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's a good start for a pop maestro.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
And I just went to London with him and then,
you know, for meetings and stuff like that, and I
went to their studios and I didn't know Stockache and
Waterman were nobody did really, you know, they were just
in the beginning of what they were doing. And as
I I signed a deal with them. About a few
months later, they had the first massive record with Dead
or Alive called used Being Around like a record, and
it was such a great song that I think in
(05:13):
a great track and it was massive, and it kind
of like was their calling card to the rest of
the industry. And they never stopped. They just kept having
hits after hit. So in the meantime I ended up
kind of being one of the tea boys at the
studio because I had to go on the back burner.
They didn't have time to work with me, you know,
because they're getting big artists who were already having hits
kind of thing were coming to them to say, give
(05:34):
us another one kind of thing. So yeah, that was
kind of weird really, but it was also a bit
of an apprenticeship, you know. I got to be at
the studio through some of the most amazing moments that
they had, you know, where they were literally having a
hit record every couple of weeks, which I thought not
was normal, but I kind of thought, well, other studios
must be doing this, but they weren't. Obviously hit records
(05:57):
were being made in London, of course they were, but
I mean these guys were doing.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It every few weeks.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So it was an amazing place to be and obviously
I got I think I got the best song they
ever wrote, which is never going to give you up, so.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Sure did how were they as they sort of started
tuning out all these hits, How were they regarded by
the rest of the industry now and.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Listen, I mean the music industry didn't really particularly like them.
I mean record labels did you had pop artists, because
they would send them over there and they'd give them
a hit kind of thing in the beginning, you know,
and then obviously they started signing things themselves like Kylie
and Jason and lots of other stuff. But the music
press kind of hated them, and that was tough I
think for me and probably some of the other artists
(06:40):
that work with them, because they kind of hate you
before they've even heard the record, because they've just seen
stock at King Mortman's name as writer, producer and gone,
we hate this.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Before we even hear it.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
So I don't think I got as much as some
people did working with them in terms of negative But
one of the things I loved about going to America
is that nobody knew how they were, so I kind
of went to America and it was like, okay, great,
So if they liked the record, they liked the record,
that's it. There's no you know, they just weren't interested
in talk about them because they didn't care. Because they
didn't they didn't really have many It's in America. You know,
(07:10):
my stuff kind of slipped through the net and I
had a few there and.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
And that sort of changed perception of me a little bit.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I think even in the UK it's sort of you know,
if you if you're a British artist and you go
to America and have a number one record, people just
suddenly raise an eyebrown, go what is going on? Because
lots of British artists who are massive and could be
massive obviously, you know in where you guys are and
you know, Australian and all that sort of parts of
the world, it doesn't always mean that they're going to
(07:38):
crack America. You know, they can crack the rest of
the world sometimes and just not crack America. It's weird,
but I'm not saying I cracked it, but I had,
you know, quite a few hits there and stuff. I'm
toured there and everything, and I think it did change
people's perspectives. I think they were a bit more open
to well, we'll see what happens with this guy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You know, so Pete Woodman, he pitched you to icaa
they gave you the deal and kind of off you weaned.
I mean, you were so young at the time. Were
you paying attention to these deals? Were you, you know,
with your.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Not really No, I didn't really care, to be honest.
I mean I don't think many people do when they
get into music. I mean I have met people who
have been through every minute shop of the deal they're
going to sign, and the points of this and if
we have a break point here, what does this mean?
And if I have to buy the album back in
seven years time, it blah blah blah whatever. But most
people who get a record deal just go great, let's
(08:30):
get on with it. That means I get to make
a record and we'll see what happens. And that's kind
of where I was.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It was a bit.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It was a bit strange because obviously I spent so
much time at the stockaching Waterman building while they were
making a lot of these early hits that they had
making Tea for Banana Armor and god knows who else
that you start to hear things and you do start
to understand. Okay, so publishing is a completely different thing.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
And I didn't know that. You know, I knew nothing, and.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
You sort of got a grasp of the fact when
someone had a hit record because I was around Pete
a lot. I lived in his flat for quite a
few months. I used to go into work with them
every morning, and i'd be in the pub with them
at night, and I'd just sit there just I wouldn't
say much.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I just sit there soaking it all up.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
And you would start to realize that, well, okay, well,
if I actually have a biggot record, that's going to
I mean, I know, you know that's going to change
your life, but you you can actually see it when
you're around it, if you know.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
What I mean.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Because the guys kind of all bought Ferraris after about
twelve months, you know what I mean. So you think, okay,
well this does seem to work, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
But I wasn't really bothered.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
I mean, it's easy to say that because I did
make quite a lot of money, But I mean, I
don't think I was bothered about it. I just don't
think that was really I just wanted to make a record,
I think, and yeah, and obviously go on tour and
do all of that.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I don't think that.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I don't I don't think many people's motivation is, you know,
the money straight off.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
That's I don't know, it's I just don't think it is. Really.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
How was the pop star life in those early days.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah, it was, To be honest, it's unbelievably boring of
me to say that, but it was a bit monotonous
because I wasn't in a band with three or four
other friends where we wouldn't turn up to things because
we were all hammered from the night before. I just
told the world with a manager doing promo basically for
like a year and a bit before I ever got
(10:22):
to do gigs, because nobody wanted me to do concerts,
because they didn't make money out of me doing concerts, particularly,
you know, they made money out of me doing TV
shows that sold a million records, you know. So that's
what I did, and I just did. I kind of
did what I was told. And I don't mean that
in a kind of like being a child or being
an innocent or being what have you. It was kind
(10:42):
of I didn't have anything to compare it with. Someone
just showed me a fax with like a load of
dates on it and went, that's where you're going for
the next six months. And I went Okay, let's go,
and I just did it.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And also think.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Because just traveling, I mean I never you know, as
a kid, I went to a few European countries, but
just for holidays and stuff and only a couple. And
then literally I was on a plane almost day of
my life and I was going absolutely everywhere. I mean,
even in that first the first six months of it
was mainly Europe. I seem to remember. I don't even
(11:15):
think we went to America or Japan or obviously you know,
down to Australia, New Zealand anything like that for I
think even into the next year of it. But in
that next year, I probably went to America like four
or five times, I think, and consider i'd never been
to like not constantly, but kind of going like I
can see it on that list, we're going again. And
also when we went to America as a as a
(11:37):
real kind of kind of idea of it, we'd go
for weeks. We didn't just go for like five days.
I'd go to America for three or four weeks and
be doing radio on TV every single day.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And I'm not that's.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Not a complaint. That's what it takes to off a
hit record. It's a big old place and you have
to keep at it. But I just don't think I'll
use that word again. It wasn't very sexy.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And this is what's so great about the book, and
just could have you know. I mean, I totally lived
the eighties pop scene and so just all the names
in these stories and things, and it's all just I
so enjoyed reading it. Fame is it? Is it fun
or did you struggle with it?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I struggled with it a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
There's parts of it that are fun, and there's parts
of it that are more fun today than they were
when I was truly, actually really famous. I think now
I get to enjoy it and it's a bit more
of a switch now. I mean, I am not exaggerating
to say that I sometimes play in front of, you know,
even at my own gigs, sometimes ten thousand people, because
I do arenas now in the UK, not everywhere, but
in the UK can and I'll go and do that.
(12:39):
And I can be putting petrol in the car on
the way home if I'm not on the tour bus
because I've decided to go home for a day or so,
and I'll not not I could jump on the front
bonnet of the car and sing never going to give
you up, and no one would no one would care,
honest to god. It's it's frighteningly weird sometimes because I've
got the more screaming the song at me at the
(12:59):
end of the gig and like I say, in front
of an arena full of people, and then I can
be on the Moti on the way home, thing, I
better get some petrol.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
And I don't even think.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Twice about, you know, whether whether I should do it
or not, or oh, someone's going to recognize me or anything.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
I don't even think twice about it.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And that I think is an amazing, wonderful thing. Whereas
I think back then, I think I would have been
spotted a lot more, and I would have been I
just would have been more intimidated by it, Whereas now
I can see it in people's eyes if they've recognized
me as I'm strolling to pay for my petrol, and
and I can just I just they'll kind of look
at me and I go all right, and they'll go, oh, yeah,
it's him, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And I go, yeah, you know, and that's it.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
It's it's kind of crazy, but it's that's I think
that's a much more comfortable way to experience fame than
it was back then. Back then it was a bit nuts,
really because obviously most of the people who recognize me
are older and they don't have that hysteria thing about
it anymore. There's not like fifteen year old girls kind
of going a bit loopy because you know, Morton r.
(14:01):
Kits just turned up, you know what I mean. Well,
actually they still turn a bit loopy for Morton actually,
to be fair, but they.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Don't do it for me.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Writing this book, I wonder, you know, if you really
sort of reflected on that period of time in your
life and the impact that it hit on you.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I did, definitely.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
I mean I spoke to my two older brothers and
my sister about it quite a lot. Spoke to my
wife obviously about it because we've been together for all
that time, and our daughter a little bit as well,
even though she didn't really grow up with me being famous.
I'd kind of stopped in it when she was two
or three. And I think it's just important to get
other people's perspectives a little bit and to talk to
(14:39):
them how I remember things and also my old manager,
my ex manager, tops, because he was there through most
of that, a lot of it. You know, I think
what happens is you without you realizing it. It is
quite cathartic and therapeutic and all those things. Because but
I have done a lot of therapy in my life,
not for a long time now, but I did in
my late twenties early thirties because I guess I probably
(15:01):
needed it because of that four or five years of madness,
but I also needed for the thing that happened in
my childhood, and I think I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I really wanted to kind.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Of be able to be a dad who wasn't like
my dad. And I loved my dad and he loved me.
But bless him, he should have been diagnosed and treated.
I think he was like seriously depressed and seriously down
at times, to the point where it was like mania,
and you're thinking kids should not be around that. And
(15:31):
I've got a bit of his temper and I've got
a bit of his depression, to be honest, I do.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
But I've been really super lucky.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
I've done the therapy, so at least I see triggers
sometimes and I know when I'm getting in a crappy mood,
and I can sometimes just you know, put Gladiator on,
get the biscuits out, make a cup of tea and say, oh,
go for a long walk and just say, look, you
won't feel like this in an hour with a bit
of lock. Just don't go there, you know. And I
(15:57):
think my dad couldn't do that. It was impossible for him.
He had a switch. Again, took and the switches, but
he had a switch and it just got flicked and
that was it. He go from like singing Frank Sonata
to us all, you know, in like the greatest mood
ever to I just want to smash everything, you know,
And it just wasn't easy to be around really. So yeah,
there's been a lot of therapy going through my brain,
I think, and you know, going over the whole process
(16:19):
of it, I think, and also because of my career,
you know, it's like it's pretty hard for a twenty
one year old to be put on that conveyor belt
and just say go and run with it. No one
tells you anything, no one gives you a clue of
how to do any of it or what to feel
the ups and downs of it there and.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Listen we'll see it. We've just seen it recently again
with somebody. It pushes into the very very edge sometimes because.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
We're not all built that way to deal with it,
even though we might look like we're dealing with it,
because we might be good at smiling on Telly, but
it doesn't mean to say that you're actually dealing with.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
And obviously I wouldn't swap with anybody. I wouldn't change
any of it. I'm super super happy, I'm super grateful
for everything that happened, and I'm in a really good
spot right now. So but I do know that sometimes
when I see certain artists, younger artists especially, and I
kind of think somebody needs to help them because I've
(17:12):
been through this a little bit and I can see
that they're not really happy, you know, and I think
that's I don't know, I think I'm not I'm not
I'm not calling out record labels here, but I'm saying
I don't think it'd be a bad idea to get
somebody to just sit down with someone for a couple
of hours and say, you know, almost in a therapy way, like, look,
you've got to be careful, You've got that you know,
(17:32):
I don't know where that happens.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Mate. It didn't mean my day, but maybe it does now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Ricord's been such a delight to speak to you and
you're a real pleasure and thank you so much for
the book.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Thank you, thank you, Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Never by Rick Esley is in stores now.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
For more from the Sunday session with friend Jessica Rudgin,
listen live ton Us Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on Iheard Radio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh, look, doesn't this bring back memories? One of the
biggest hits of the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I've got this vision of my older brother dancing in
his bedroom beside. Oh sorry Marcus, but yeah no used
to love this little number. Released in nineteen eighty seven,
Never Going to Give You Up introduced to young Rick
Ashley to the pop world and completely changed his life.
What followed was a best selling album with millions of
sales worldwide tours, a whirlwind of TV appearances and all
(00:38):
the scrutiny that comes with fame, and after only six years,
Rick retired and walked away. He has shared his journey
and thoughts on fame in his first ever memoir, Never
Is in stores now and Rick Ashley joins me.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Rick, good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You've been asked to write an autobiography before you turn
down the opportunity. Why now?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I think it's been a few things, to be honest.
One of the things is that I've fifty and I'm
going to start forgetting things. I'm already forgetting most things,
so I'll forget most of my life and career, I
think if I carry on more importantly, my mum and
dad both passed away in the last few years, and
I felt I really wanted to be honest because I
wanted to be honest about everything in the book, but
(01:22):
especially about my upbringing because it wasn't particularly an easy upbringing.
I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me, because
I've had a great life, and I think that that
upbringing kind of pushed me to want to do several things,
one of which was have a stable family life. And
I've been with the same woman since nineteen eighty nine
and we have a thirty two year old daughter, so
(01:45):
my two older brothers and my older sister all in
long term relationships. But our mom and dad divorced when
I was about four, and I'm the youngest of the
four kids, and just various things within my childhood I
think pushed me towards once in a career, basically on stage,
if you like, if that's what we're putting it down to,
because I think I wanted love and wherever I could
(02:07):
get it, because I don't feel I got enough from
my mom and dad in a nutshell, and I don't
blame them. They had a very very tough life themselves,
and they had a very terrible experience where they lost
a son before I was born and before the next earl,
this Mike, was born, So just dealing with that and
other things, I think it was incredibly tough for them.
And obviously I was brought up in my dad's house
(02:30):
and obviously that I think is again it was very
strange back then. So there were just a lot of
things in my childhood that pushed me to have this
pop career, if you like. And it's not as simple
as that sentence explains it, but yeah, I just wanted
to be really honest and actually delve into it a bit,
you know, No.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You absolutely do. What was it like being a teenager
in the early eighties in the north of England.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Well, I wouldn't say great, if I'm honest. The little
town that I'm from was kind of a tough town,
I think. I mean, it's not like the typical you
know story of like, oh it was grim up north,
as British people say, but it wasn't. It wasn't sexy
and exciting less prove it that way, And there wasn't
(03:16):
a lot of opportunities really in terms of like trying
to get into a band and stuff. There were a
couple of bands in my school, one of which I
was in and I was the drummer, and then I
went on to join another band later after school days
and stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
But it wasn't exactly like a hotbed of music.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
A little town that I'm from, and we had Manchester
and Liverpool either side of us, kind of like twenty
miles each way either way. But I think in terms
of like I what was part of my weekly routine
was to go to the local cricket club to a
disco and here DJ's play kind of cool records, not
(03:53):
just the pop records that were in the charts, but
cool records. And I kind of loved that and that
was a bit of salvation, I think, and just being
in a band with some friends that was as well,
you know what I mean, It really kind of it
was getting me out of my home life that way,
and I kind of needed that thing. But it wasn't
It wasn't great. I don't look back on living in
newtlu Willows where I'm from, as an amazing experience, to
(04:14):
be honest, not doing it any disservice, but I am
doing it a bit of disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But they go, how did you get adamusion?
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Well, I met a guy called Pete Waterman who was
part of the you know about to be fabulous stock
Ache in Waterman, who dominated the pop charts for quite
a while. But when he saw me, I was in
a band with some friends and we were okay, you know,
we were playing the local pub scene and stuff like that,
but we weren't great and he wasn't interested in signing
(04:41):
a band. He just wanted to sign singers, and I
didn't know who was but he had red leather pants
and he had a jack, so I thought that'll do.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's a good start for a pop maestro.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
And I just went to London with him and then,
you know, for meetings and stuff like that, and I
went to their studios and I didn't know Stockache and
Waterman were nobody did really, you know, they were just
in the beginning of what they were doing. And as
I I signed a deal with them. About a few
months later, they had the first massive record with Dead
or Alive called used Being Around like a record, and
it was such a great song that I think in
(05:13):
a great track and it was massive, and it kind
of like was their calling card to the rest of
the industry. And they never stopped. They just kept having
hits after hit. So in the meantime I ended up
kind of being one of the tea boys at the
studio because I had to go on the back burner.
They didn't have time to work with me, you know,
because they're getting big artists who were already having hits
kind of thing were coming to them to say, give
(05:34):
us another one kind of thing. So yeah, that was
kind of weird really, but it was also a bit
of an apprenticeship, you know. I got to be at
the studio through some of the most amazing moments that
they had, you know, where they were literally having a
hit record every couple of weeks, which I thought not
was normal, but I kind of thought, well, other studios
must be doing this, but they weren't. Obviously hit records
(05:57):
were being made in London, of course they were, but
I mean these guys were doing.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It every few weeks.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So it was an amazing place to be and obviously
I got I think I got the best song they
ever wrote, which is never going to give you up, so.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Sure did how were they as they sort of started
tuning out all these hits, How were they regarded by
the rest of the industry now and.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Listen, I mean the music industry didn't really particularly like them.
I mean record labels did you had pop artists, because
they would send them over there and they'd give them
a hit kind of thing in the beginning, you know,
and then obviously they started signing things themselves like Kylie
and Jason and lots of other stuff. But the music
press kind of hated them, and that was tough I
think for me and probably some of the other artists
(06:40):
that work with them, because they kind of hate you
before they've even heard the record, because they've just seen
stock at King Mortman's name as writer, producer and gone,
we hate this.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Before we even hear it.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
So I don't think I got as much as some
people did working with them in terms of negative But
one of the things I loved about going to America
is that nobody knew how they were, so I kind
of went to America and it was like, okay, great,
So if they liked the record, they liked the record,
that's it. There's no you know, they just weren't interested
in talk about them because they didn't care. Because they
didn't they didn't really have many It's in America. You know,
(07:10):
my stuff kind of slipped through the net and I
had a few there and.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
And that sort of changed perception of me a little bit.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I think even in the UK it's sort of you know,
if you if you're a British artist and you go
to America and have a number one record, people just
suddenly raise an eyebrown, go what is going on? Because
lots of British artists who are massive and could be
massive obviously, you know in where you guys are and
you know, Australian and all that sort of parts of
the world, it doesn't always mean that they're going to
(07:38):
crack America. You know, they can crack the rest of
the world sometimes and just not crack America. It's weird,
but I'm not saying I cracked it, but I had,
you know, quite a few hits there and stuff. I'm
toured there and everything, and I think it did change
people's perspectives. I think they were a bit more open
to well, we'll see what happens with this guy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You know, so Pete Woodman, he pitched you to icaa
they gave you the deal and kind of off you weaned.
I mean, you were so young at the time. Were
you paying attention to these deals? Were you, you know,
with your.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Not really No, I didn't really care, to be honest.
I mean I don't think many people do when they
get into music. I mean I have met people who
have been through every minute shop of the deal they're
going to sign, and the points of this and if
we have a break point here, what does this mean?
And if I have to buy the album back in
seven years time, it blah blah blah whatever. But most
people who get a record deal just go great, let's
(08:30):
get on with it. That means I get to make
a record and we'll see what happens. And that's kind
of where I was.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It was a bit.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It was a bit strange because obviously I spent so
much time at the stockaching Waterman building while they were
making a lot of these early hits that they had
making Tea for Banana Armor and god knows who else
that you start to hear things and you do start
to understand. Okay, so publishing is a completely different thing.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
And I didn't know that. You know, I knew nothing, and.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
You sort of got a grasp of the fact when
someone had a hit record because I was around Pete
a lot. I lived in his flat for quite a
few months. I used to go into work with them
every morning, and i'd be in the pub with them
at night, and I'd just sit there just I wouldn't
say much.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I just sit there soaking it all up.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
And you would start to realize that, well, okay, well,
if I actually have a biggot record, that's going to
I mean, I know, you know that's going to change
your life, but you you can actually see it when
you're around it, if you know.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
What I mean.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Because the guys kind of all bought Ferraris after about
twelve months, you know what I mean. So you think, okay,
well this does seem to work, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
But I wasn't really bothered.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
I mean, it's easy to say that because I did
make quite a lot of money, But I mean, I
don't think I was bothered about it. I just don't
think that was really I just wanted to make a record,
I think, and yeah, and obviously go on tour and
do all of that.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I don't think that.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I don't I don't think many people's motivation is, you know,
the money straight off.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
That's I don't know, it's I just don't think it is. Really.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
How was the pop star life in those early days.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah, it was, To be honest, it's unbelievably boring of
me to say that, but it was a bit monotonous
because I wasn't in a band with three or four
other friends where we wouldn't turn up to things because
we were all hammered from the night before. I just
told the world with a manager doing promo basically for
like a year and a bit before I ever got
(10:22):
to do gigs, because nobody wanted me to do concerts,
because they didn't make money out of me doing concerts, particularly,
you know, they made money out of me doing TV
shows that sold a million records, you know. So that's
what I did, and I just did. I kind of
did what I was told. And I don't mean that
in a kind of like being a child or being
an innocent or being what have you. It was kind
(10:42):
of I didn't have anything to compare it with. Someone
just showed me a fax with like a load of
dates on it and went, that's where you're going for
the next six months. And I went Okay, let's go,
and I just did it.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And also think.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Because just traveling, I mean I never you know, as
a kid, I went to a few European countries, but
just for holidays and stuff and only a couple. And
then literally I was on a plane almost day of
my life and I was going absolutely everywhere. I mean,
even in that first the first six months of it
was mainly Europe. I seem to remember. I don't even
(11:15):
think we went to America or Japan or obviously you know,
down to Australia, New Zealand anything like that for I
think even into the next year of it. But in
that next year, I probably went to America like four
or five times, I think, and consider i'd never been
to like not constantly, but kind of going like I
can see it on that list, we're going again. And
also when we went to America as a as a
(11:37):
real kind of kind of idea of it, we'd go
for weeks. We didn't just go for like five days.
I'd go to America for three or four weeks and
be doing radio on TV every single day.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And I'm not that's.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Not a complaint. That's what it takes to off a
hit record. It's a big old place and you have
to keep at it. But I just don't think I'll
use that word again. It wasn't very sexy.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And this is what's so great about the book, and
just could have you know. I mean, I totally lived
the eighties pop scene and so just all the names
in these stories and things, and it's all just I
so enjoyed reading it. Fame is it? Is it fun
or did you struggle with it?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I struggled with it a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
There's parts of it that are fun, and there's parts
of it that are more fun today than they were
when I was truly, actually really famous. I think now
I get to enjoy it and it's a bit more
of a switch now. I mean, I am not exaggerating
to say that I sometimes play in front of, you know,
even at my own gigs, sometimes ten thousand people, because
I do arenas now in the UK, not everywhere, but
in the UK can and I'll go and do that.
(12:39):
And I can be putting petrol in the car on
the way home if I'm not on the tour bus
because I've decided to go home for a day or so,
and I'll not not I could jump on the front
bonnet of the car and sing never going to give
you up, and no one would no one would care,
honest to god. It's it's frighteningly weird sometimes because I've
got the more screaming the song at me at the
(12:59):
end of the gig and like I say, in front
of an arena full of people, and then I can
be on the Moti on the way home, thing, I
better get some petrol.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
And I don't even think.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Twice about, you know, whether whether I should do it
or not, or oh, someone's going to recognize me or anything.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
I don't even think twice about it.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And that I think is an amazing, wonderful thing. Whereas
I think back then, I think I would have been
spotted a lot more, and I would have been I
just would have been more intimidated by it, Whereas now
I can see it in people's eyes if they've recognized
me as I'm strolling to pay for my petrol, and
and I can just I just they'll kind of look
at me and I go all right, and they'll go, oh, yeah,
it's him, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And I go, yeah, you know, and that's it.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
It's it's kind of crazy, but it's that's I think
that's a much more comfortable way to experience fame than
it was back then. Back then it was a bit nuts,
really because obviously most of the people who recognize me
are older and they don't have that hysteria thing about
it anymore. There's not like fifteen year old girls kind
of going a bit loopy because you know, Morton r.
(14:01):
Kits just turned up, you know what I mean. Well,
actually they still turn a bit loopy for Morton actually,
to be fair, but they.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Don't do it for me.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Writing this book, I wonder, you know, if you really
sort of reflected on that period of time in your
life and the impact that it hit on you.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I did, definitely.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
I mean I spoke to my two older brothers and
my sister about it quite a lot. Spoke to my
wife obviously about it because we've been together for all
that time, and our daughter a little bit as well,
even though she didn't really grow up with me being famous.
I'd kind of stopped in it when she was two
or three. And I think it's just important to get
other people's perspectives a little bit and to talk to
(14:39):
them how I remember things and also my old manager,
my ex manager, tops, because he was there through most
of that, a lot of it. You know, I think
what happens is you without you realizing it. It is
quite cathartic and therapeutic and all those things. Because but
I have done a lot of therapy in my life,
not for a long time now, but I did in
my late twenties early thirties because I guess I probably
(15:01):
needed it because of that four or five years of madness,
but I also needed for the thing that happened in
my childhood, and I think I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I really wanted to kind.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Of be able to be a dad who wasn't like
my dad. And I loved my dad and he loved me.
But bless him, he should have been diagnosed and treated.
I think he was like seriously depressed and seriously down
at times, to the point where it was like mania,
and you're thinking kids should not be around that. And
(15:31):
I've got a bit of his temper and I've got
a bit of his depression, to be honest, I do.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
But I've been really super lucky.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
I've done the therapy, so at least I see triggers
sometimes and I know when I'm getting in a crappy mood,
and I can sometimes just you know, put Gladiator on,
get the biscuits out, make a cup of tea and say, oh,
go for a long walk and just say, look, you
won't feel like this in an hour with a bit
of lock. Just don't go there, you know. And I
(15:57):
think my dad couldn't do that. It was impossible for him.
He had a switch. Again, took and the switches, but
he had a switch and it just got flicked and
that was it. He go from like singing Frank Sonata
to us all, you know, in like the greatest mood
ever to I just want to smash everything, you know,
And it just wasn't easy to be around really. So yeah,
there's been a lot of therapy going through my brain,
I think, and you know, going over the whole process
(16:19):
of it, I think, and also because of my career,
you know, it's like it's pretty hard for a twenty
one year old to be put on that conveyor belt
and just say go and run with it. No one
tells you anything, no one gives you a clue of
how to do any of it or what to feel
the ups and downs of it there and.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Listen we'll see it. We've just seen it recently again
with somebody. It pushes into the very very edge sometimes because.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
We're not all built that way to deal with it,
even though we might look like we're dealing with it,
because we might be good at smiling on Telly, but
it doesn't mean to say that you're actually dealing with.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
And obviously I wouldn't swap with anybody. I wouldn't change
any of it. I'm super super happy, I'm super grateful
for everything that happened, and I'm in a really good
spot right now. So but I do know that sometimes
when I see certain artists, younger artists especially, and I
kind of think somebody needs to help them because I've
(17:12):
been through this a little bit and I can see
that they're not really happy, you know, and I think
that's I don't know, I think I'm not I'm not
I'm not calling out record labels here, but I'm saying
I don't think it'd be a bad idea to get
somebody to just sit down with someone for a couple
of hours and say, you know, almost in a therapy way, like, look,
you've got to be careful, You've got that you know,
(17:32):
I don't know where that happens.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Mate. It didn't mean my day, but maybe it does now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Ricord's been such a delight to speak to you and
you're a real pleasure and thank you so much for
the book.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Thank you, thank you, Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Never by Rick Esley is in stores now.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
For more from the Sunday session with friend Jessica Rudgin,
listen live ton Us Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on Iheard Radio.
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