September 13, 2025 • 14 mins
Dame Robin White is well-regarded as one of New Zealand's most significant living artists, and she teamed up with Dame Gaylene Preston for a new project.
Grace: A Prayer for Peace traces White’s evolution as an artist and her creative output fuelled by the world around her.
"We knew one another through our work, but we didn't know that. And then when we ran into one another Rita Angus exhibition - we kind of met in the flesh, but that's when we really knew one another."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
When two legends of the art world join forces, you
can be sure the result is going to be something special.
And this was certainly the case when one of our
greatest living artists, Dame Robin White, met celebrated filmmaker Dame
Gataling Preston. Together, they have produced a film based on
Robin's work. It's called Grace, A Prayer for Peace.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I think the paintings are a bit like us human beings.
We're born with what we have and we have to
head out into the world with it and make the
most of it, you know, And that's our life.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I have an idea. I'm in love with that idea.
I want to see what it looks like, so I
have to make the work. If it's good, it won't
go away, no, I know.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
That's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm delighted to have both Dame Galen Preston, Dame Robert
and Wait in the studio. It is lovely to see
you both.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good morning morning.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The two of you knew of each other, but you
hadn't actually met. Is that right? Before twenty twenty one
when you met at Rita Angus exhibition.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We knew of each other's work.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Yeah, we knew one another through our work, but we
didn't know that. And then when we ran into one
another at the Rita Angus exhibition, we kind of met
in the flesh, but that's when we really knew one another.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And then how soon after did you bring up this idea, Gaialen,
of making a film about Robin Well.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Pretty much immediately, but I heard the words come out
of my mouth, and I knew that I couldn't do
it because I had a head injury and I'd given
up filmmaking. But somehow a year later, I felt better
and we just grew the film. We grew. We grew it,
didn't we That's right.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I figured that, you know, Gaileen, with her reputation, she'd
have something interesting to say. She'd have a way of
doing things that I felt would be useful, and so
we ended up having a conversation eventually to actually really discuss,
well are we going to do it and what is
it going to be and as when we both agreed
that it would be more purposeful to base it on
(02:25):
the idea of women artists working collaboratively and.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It does feel like a collaboration between the two of you.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Oh it is, and it's interesting. You know, you say
collaboration and you think everybody's talking about everything. But actually
Robin didn't see the film until the test screening, which
is very late to see a film where you're featured.
But I've learned a lot about collaboration in terms of
(02:55):
the process from Robin making this film, because you know,
when you make a burg artwork like the Mussi that
are featured on the film, I mean huge and they
involve a small group of artists who are actually doing
very particular work, and everybody's doing their bit. But it's
(03:17):
kind of like this person owns their idea. This person
owns their idea, and the collaboration is a conversation that's
really about all sorts of things. I mean, we didn't
sit around talking about the film. We sat around talking
about people we knew from art school, people we admired.
(03:38):
We talked about our attitude to the world. That's what
we talked about.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's reflected in the film. I mean there is a
comfort Robin, and I don't know if you felt comfortable
knowing that you were being filmed, but it definitely felt
like the two of you were comfortable with each other,
which creates this quite intimate experience for the viewer. How
did you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I felt for me it was a creative experience, and
Gainen was part of it, as were all of the
other people at that time that you see in the film.
And as Gayleen mentioned, every person comes with their own expertise,
their own capacities to do things, and it's a matter
(04:21):
of arranging things so that everybody makes their contribution and
it's all respected. It might be the person who's incredibly
good in making sure that we're all watered and fed
at the right time, in the right way, in a
way that keeps us going. It might be the person
(04:41):
who can sing, play the guitar or something. I mean,
every contribution is a vital element of the ultimate success
of whatever the project is.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
We did a lot of singing, actually, you know, singing singing.
It's part of the work in which I think you
see in the film Robin whistles while she works.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Anyway, did you know that.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Well, I might whistle atle sing or something.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I found it a great privilege to watch you work, Robin,
to see your methods, the materials you use, the processes
you go through, and I don't think we get that
opportunity to do that with a lot of artists. And
I thoroughly enjoyed that. Did you mind.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Sharing that, No, not at all. You know, we're a
group of people working together, and there is a sort
of a fellowship, a kind of natural spirit of fellowship.
So it wasn't just us. There were people walking in
and out off the street we were in for much
of our working together. We're an on a home and
(05:48):
more working in a studio which was a shop once,
so a big window shop front. People would see us
and walk in and you know there'd be a they
get conversation and the cup of tea or whatever, you know.
So no, it was a very relaxed and joyful. But
(06:08):
the work went on, it didn't stop. It just it's
as if that spirit of coming and going, of joyfulness
of being a part of that humming society, that humanity,
that sense of humanity energized the work.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
And I mean when we're filming in Robin's studio and
she's freehand drawing the wire netting on a monoprint, on
a terribly thin piece of paper that's already had an
expert calligrapher right on it as a collaborative work. I mean,
(06:46):
my heart was in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I was a bit nervous at that point too. I
love the confidence.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Yeah, yeah, total confidence.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So did you always know that you didn't want to
create sort of a biopack, you didn't want to do
a biography of Robin. I think this idea of capturing
her at work over this period of time working on
a couple of projects was a really fascinating way of
giving us an insight.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Yeah, well, it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It is a gift.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I can't think of many times. I can't think of
one actually where you really see I think there's a
film where you see Elton John writing of song, but
that act of creation in the moment to film it
is just pure pleasure for me. And Robin is an
(07:35):
un self conscious subject and also biopicxel the artist's life
and all of that. It's about the artist's work. The
artist's work is why we love them, and we're so
sort of individually focused on the biography of the artist.
I mean, you're talking to someone who's written an autobiography,
(07:57):
so I'm sort of working against myself here. But the work,
the work's the thing, and.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Of course we learn so much about the life through
the work. Anyway, that's what that's what comes out. I mean,
I feel like we should be making more of an
effort to capture some of our artists on screen, Gayleen, Yeah, working, yes, working,
creating their own words, talking about their work and things
like that and all.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
We have got a very very small catalog of television
and film around artists. It's improved recently with the recent
documentaries over the last two or three years, seeing more
documentaries for cinema about artists. But we don't have a
(08:45):
tradition of doing it. So any chance I get whipping
out the OSMO, now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Tell me about the camera and how this documentary was filmed.
Because we're sitting in the studio. You've got this tiny
little camera, You've got this schedule, and of course I
immediately want one. It looks absolutely fantastic. It's a very
tiny stand with a lens on top. It folds down
into a very small looking spongebag you could say, toilet
tries bag, and you shot part of the film on
(09:13):
this is that's not an intimidating thing to have in
front of your face when you're shooting the documentary, is it.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
No, I just filmed as saying that Robin is an
adventurous person and travels the world, you know, Kerabas, Japan,
wherever she's off, and so I've had a very adventurous
time doing that too. Robin rings me up and she goes,
I've had an email, and I know when you say
(09:42):
that to me, Robin, that it's an adventure and I'm
going to go. So this is a film, and film's expensive,
and then you've got to raise the money and it's difficult.
But I went to Japan with Robin, and before we left,
I was trying to work out what camera I could
take because I'm not as young as I used to be,
(10:04):
and even even small sony, it's quite hard for me
to cut around. And one of the cinematographers who shot
some of the film with us, Bruce Foster, he did
some research and he suggested an Osmo Pocket three. Now
none of us had actually heard of that, and we
(10:25):
only found it on the internet. It was very new,
but off I went to Japan with the Osmo Pocket three.
So if you see the film, you've seen the film.
I shot most of what happens in Japan and all
of what happens in kid of Us with my little
Osmo pocket three, which means we're in a situation and
(10:51):
people start singing and it sounds so beautiful, and I
can just rummage in my handbag and start filming. And
there's a lot of the film that wouldn't have been
captured otherwise.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It's incredible, Robin. I loved watching the progression of your work,
the changes and the inspiration over the years and things.
But what I was really inspired by is just how
you are still so curious, how you go on these adventures.
I mean, I just kind of went, this is the
way we should live life. You're constantly learning and doing
(11:23):
new things.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I think that's the thing. Constantly learning, And what do
you learn if you if you keep doing the same
thing over and over, or you decide it's time to
just sort of shut the studio and put your feet up.
I mean, I just you know, what would I do?
This is what I am same with Gaileen being an artist.
It's not a job, it's what you are and you
(11:45):
can't help it. There's no retirement plan.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I'm pleased to hear that and Gaalen, You know you
didn't think you would make another film after the head injury,
and you've had this experience, You've created this beautiful piece
of art back on the hooks.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Yeah, well it's been it's healing, so it means I'm
back in the world. I'm engaged. You know, part of
having concussion is that you have a thing that's called disassociation.
It's actually on the list of symptoms. And so my sister,
my sister Jan who's done the music for the film,
(12:19):
she got really worried about me because I said, oh,
I don't care if I never make another film, and.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She said, gays really sick.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
She thinks she's never going to make another film. So
she recognized that. You know, you've got a bent piece
of wiring in your brain and once it's turned on,
you can resist, but it won't do you any good.
You better just join on.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I love it. What have you both learned about each
other and your creative processes and things? Have you inspired
each other? Robin? How's Gaalen inspired you?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
You know, you don't want to think you're all alone
when you get to our age. There's not that many
of you left who remember the fifties and know the
same songs. So it's a very encouraging. It's very encouraging
to have a friend who had very similar experiences. I
just really treasure our friendship and you, Gayaleen Well for.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Me being able to work to record Robin's process. And
Robin and I are aligned and a lot of our
life beliefs. You know, it's not just political beliefs, but
it's actually what we care about in terms of, you know,
why are we on this planet? What are we therefore?
So it isn't just making art, it's actually making up
(13:36):
that communicates. And with a film, I can amplify what
Robin has to say, so it gives me a way
to say what I want to say. That's kind of
better than if I just said.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It Gaining Preston, Robin White, thank you so much for
coming in. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That was two absolute great so to our art scene.
Dame Robin White and Dame Galen Preston their film Grace
a prev piece. It's instinnim is this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks A B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
When two legends of the art world join forces, you
can be sure the result is going to be something special.
And this was certainly the case when one of our
greatest living artists, Dame Robin White, met celebrated filmmaker Dame
Gataling Preston. Together, they have produced a film based on
Robin's work. It's called Grace, A Prayer for Peace.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I think the paintings are a bit like us human beings.
We're born with what we have and we have to
head out into the world with it and make the
most of it, you know, And that's our life.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I have an idea. I'm in love with that idea.
I want to see what it looks like, so I
have to make the work. If it's good, it won't
go away, no, I know.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
That's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm delighted to have both Dame Galen Preston, Dame Robert
and Wait in the studio. It is lovely to see
you both.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good morning morning.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The two of you knew of each other, but you
hadn't actually met. Is that right? Before twenty twenty one
when you met at Rita Angus exhibition.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We knew of each other's work.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Yeah, we knew one another through our work, but we
didn't know that. And then when we ran into one
another at the Rita Angus exhibition, we kind of met
in the flesh, but that's when we really knew one another.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And then how soon after did you bring up this idea, Gaialen,
of making a film about Robin Well.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Pretty much immediately, but I heard the words come out
of my mouth, and I knew that I couldn't do
it because I had a head injury and I'd given
up filmmaking. But somehow a year later, I felt better
and we just grew the film. We grew. We grew it,
didn't we That's right.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I figured that, you know, Gaileen, with her reputation, she'd
have something interesting to say. She'd have a way of
doing things that I felt would be useful, and so
we ended up having a conversation eventually to actually really discuss,
well are we going to do it and what is
it going to be and as when we both agreed
that it would be more purposeful to base it on
(02:25):
the idea of women artists working collaboratively and.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It does feel like a collaboration between the two of you.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Oh it is, and it's interesting. You know, you say
collaboration and you think everybody's talking about everything. But actually
Robin didn't see the film until the test screening, which
is very late to see a film where you're featured.
But I've learned a lot about collaboration in terms of
(02:55):
the process from Robin making this film, because you know,
when you make a burg artwork like the Mussi that
are featured on the film, I mean huge and they
involve a small group of artists who are actually doing
very particular work, and everybody's doing their bit. But it's
(03:17):
kind of like this person owns their idea. This person
owns their idea, and the collaboration is a conversation that's
really about all sorts of things. I mean, we didn't
sit around talking about the film. We sat around talking
about people we knew from art school, people we admired.
(03:38):
We talked about our attitude to the world. That's what
we talked about.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's reflected in the film. I mean there is a
comfort Robin, and I don't know if you felt comfortable
knowing that you were being filmed, but it definitely felt
like the two of you were comfortable with each other,
which creates this quite intimate experience for the viewer. How
did you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I felt for me it was a creative experience, and
Gainen was part of it, as were all of the
other people at that time that you see in the film.
And as Gayleen mentioned, every person comes with their own expertise,
their own capacities to do things, and it's a matter
(04:21):
of arranging things so that everybody makes their contribution and
it's all respected. It might be the person who's incredibly
good in making sure that we're all watered and fed
at the right time, in the right way, in a
way that keeps us going. It might be the person
(04:41):
who can sing, play the guitar or something. I mean,
every contribution is a vital element of the ultimate success
of whatever the project is.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
We did a lot of singing, actually, you know, singing singing.
It's part of the work in which I think you
see in the film Robin whistles while she works.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Anyway, did you know that.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Well, I might whistle atle sing or something.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I found it a great privilege to watch you work, Robin,
to see your methods, the materials you use, the processes
you go through, and I don't think we get that
opportunity to do that with a lot of artists. And
I thoroughly enjoyed that. Did you mind.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Sharing that, No, not at all. You know, we're a
group of people working together, and there is a sort
of a fellowship, a kind of natural spirit of fellowship.
So it wasn't just us. There were people walking in
and out off the street we were in for much
of our working together. We're an on a home and
(05:48):
more working in a studio which was a shop once,
so a big window shop front. People would see us
and walk in and you know there'd be a they
get conversation and the cup of tea or whatever, you know.
So no, it was a very relaxed and joyful. But
(06:08):
the work went on, it didn't stop. It just it's
as if that spirit of coming and going, of joyfulness
of being a part of that humming society, that humanity,
that sense of humanity energized the work.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
And I mean when we're filming in Robin's studio and
she's freehand drawing the wire netting on a monoprint, on
a terribly thin piece of paper that's already had an
expert calligrapher right on it as a collaborative work. I mean,
(06:46):
my heart was in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I was a bit nervous at that point too. I
love the confidence.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Yeah, yeah, total confidence.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So did you always know that you didn't want to
create sort of a biopack, you didn't want to do
a biography of Robin. I think this idea of capturing
her at work over this period of time working on
a couple of projects was a really fascinating way of
giving us an insight.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Yeah, well, it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It is a gift.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I can't think of many times. I can't think of
one actually where you really see I think there's a
film where you see Elton John writing of song, but
that act of creation in the moment to film it
is just pure pleasure for me. And Robin is an
(07:35):
un self conscious subject and also biopicxel the artist's life
and all of that. It's about the artist's work. The
artist's work is why we love them, and we're so
sort of individually focused on the biography of the artist.
I mean, you're talking to someone who's written an autobiography,
(07:57):
so I'm sort of working against myself here. But the work,
the work's the thing, and.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Of course we learn so much about the life through
the work. Anyway, that's what that's what comes out. I mean,
I feel like we should be making more of an
effort to capture some of our artists on screen, Gayleen, Yeah, working, yes, working,
creating their own words, talking about their work and things
like that and all.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
We have got a very very small catalog of television
and film around artists. It's improved recently with the recent
documentaries over the last two or three years, seeing more
documentaries for cinema about artists. But we don't have a
(08:45):
tradition of doing it. So any chance I get whipping
out the OSMO, now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Tell me about the camera and how this documentary was filmed.
Because we're sitting in the studio. You've got this tiny
little camera, You've got this schedule, and of course I
immediately want one. It looks absolutely fantastic. It's a very
tiny stand with a lens on top. It folds down
into a very small looking spongebag you could say, toilet
tries bag, and you shot part of the film on
(09:13):
this is that's not an intimidating thing to have in
front of your face when you're shooting the documentary, is it.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
No, I just filmed as saying that Robin is an
adventurous person and travels the world, you know, Kerabas, Japan,
wherever she's off, and so I've had a very adventurous
time doing that too. Robin rings me up and she goes,
I've had an email, and I know when you say
(09:42):
that to me, Robin, that it's an adventure and I'm
going to go. So this is a film, and film's expensive,
and then you've got to raise the money and it's difficult.
But I went to Japan with Robin, and before we left,
I was trying to work out what camera I could
take because I'm not as young as I used to be,
(10:04):
and even even small sony, it's quite hard for me
to cut around. And one of the cinematographers who shot
some of the film with us, Bruce Foster, he did
some research and he suggested an Osmo Pocket three. Now
none of us had actually heard of that, and we
(10:25):
only found it on the internet. It was very new,
but off I went to Japan with the Osmo Pocket three.
So if you see the film, you've seen the film.
I shot most of what happens in Japan and all
of what happens in kid of Us with my little
Osmo pocket three, which means we're in a situation and
(10:51):
people start singing and it sounds so beautiful, and I
can just rummage in my handbag and start filming. And
there's a lot of the film that wouldn't have been
captured otherwise.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It's incredible, Robin. I loved watching the progression of your work,
the changes and the inspiration over the years and things.
But what I was really inspired by is just how
you are still so curious, how you go on these adventures.
I mean, I just kind of went, this is the
way we should live life. You're constantly learning and doing
(11:23):
new things.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I think that's the thing. Constantly learning, And what do
you learn if you if you keep doing the same
thing over and over, or you decide it's time to
just sort of shut the studio and put your feet up.
I mean, I just you know, what would I do?
This is what I am same with Gaileen being an artist.
It's not a job, it's what you are and you
(11:45):
can't help it. There's no retirement plan.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I'm pleased to hear that and Gaalen, You know you
didn't think you would make another film after the head injury,
and you've had this experience, You've created this beautiful piece
of art back on the hooks.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Yeah, well it's been it's healing, so it means I'm
back in the world. I'm engaged. You know, part of
having concussion is that you have a thing that's called disassociation.
It's actually on the list of symptoms. And so my sister,
my sister Jan who's done the music for the film,
(12:19):
she got really worried about me because I said, oh,
I don't care if I never make another film, and.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She said, gays really sick.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
She thinks she's never going to make another film. So
she recognized that. You know, you've got a bent piece
of wiring in your brain and once it's turned on,
you can resist, but it won't do you any good.
You better just join on.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I love it. What have you both learned about each
other and your creative processes and things? Have you inspired
each other? Robin? How's Gaalen inspired you?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
You know, you don't want to think you're all alone
when you get to our age. There's not that many
of you left who remember the fifties and know the
same songs. So it's a very encouraging. It's very encouraging
to have a friend who had very similar experiences. I
just really treasure our friendship and you, Gayaleen Well for.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Me being able to work to record Robin's process. And
Robin and I are aligned and a lot of our
life beliefs. You know, it's not just political beliefs, but
it's actually what we care about in terms of, you know,
why are we on this planet? What are we therefore?
So it isn't just making art, it's actually making up
(13:36):
that communicates. And with a film, I can amplify what
Robin has to say, so it gives me a way
to say what I want to say. That's kind of
better than if I just said.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It Gaining Preston, Robin White, thank you so much for
coming in. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That was two absolute great so to our art scene.
Dame Robin White and Dame Galen Preston their film Grace
a prev piece. It's instinnim is this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks A B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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