Most people know how difficult it is to stay calm and collected in a difficult modern world.
Dr Tony Fernando is a psychiatrist, a sleep specialist, a lecturer at the University of Auckland and a former ordained Buddhist monk - and he knows a thing or two about managing stress.
His new book, Life Hacks from the Buddha - How to be calm and content in a chaotic world, presents 50 ancient wisdom-inspired techniques to reduce worries and boost happiness.
He says the core issues impacting society haven't changed over the last couple decades - and he uses his insight to create solutions to processing these challenges.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks edb Right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I think most of us can relate to that need
to find calm amongst the world we live in at
the moment. But how do we find that chilled out
version of ourselves? Doctor Tony Fernando is a psychiatrist, a
sleep specialist, an electure at Auckland University and a former
ordained Buddhist monk. He knows a thing or two about
finding calm. His new book is called Life Hacks from
(00:34):
the Buddher and Doctor Tony is with me in the studio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Good morning, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How long have you been a practicing psychiatrist?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Listen, sorry, one of those questions since ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, for a while.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Ages.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Have you seen a difference or a change in what
people are struggling with in life today or are they
the same issues that humans have always dealt with?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's interesting the core issues are the same, but they
just manifest tests differently. So if you really look at
all the different worries that people have, it all boils
down to a tendency to overthink, to catastrophize, to complicate, uncomplicated,
(01:21):
but the superficial complaints might be different in terms of
kids spending too much time on technology. You didn't hear
that in the late nineties. But the worrying is pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
The other thinking and the worrying and things. Has the
world always been this Chaostak?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I'm not sure. Actually I haven't been around that lot.
But my guess is our current day and age has
complicated it because now, I mean the past twenty thirty
fifty years, we've spent more time in our heads. We're
less being paying attention to our body, and in the
(02:00):
past probably people spent more time with the body, working
with their hands, being with their body, like being embodied,
versus overthinking things. It is just a guess.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
How did you just have a Buddhism.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's interesting story. So I grew up Catholic, never been
interested in Eastern philosophy or psychology or religion. But I
picked up the book by the Dalai Lama in two
thousand and four, which captured me. Not because it was
a Dalai Lama, but it was because another psychiatrist interviewed him.
(02:34):
So I'm just interested in, Oh, what's his perspective on anxiety?
And suffering. And around the same time, same year, I
had patients who got better in terms of their destructive
tendencies self harm or even severe anxiety using mindfulness. So
I wasn't interested in mindfulness at all, but I saw
(02:56):
it improve a lot of my patients. So that was
the that caused an intellectual spark for me.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And how has it impacted your life?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, it's for me. It's a game changer. Yeah, using
current technological words, it's more than a software upgrade. It's
a change of operating systems. I'm not a tech ye.
For me, it's just a total shift and how to
live life.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's probably worth mentioning at this point that there is
evidence that the life hecks that the border talks about,
that you speak about, there has actually been quite a
lot of scientific sort of yes, yes, studies done on it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yes, so the past since I think mid seventies OS
are probably mid eighties, that's when the research on mindfulness
started in the US. And since then there's an explosion
of research on mindfulness and how effective it is in
various conditions stress, anxiety, depression, substance abuse, and now they're
(04:03):
also looking at other aspects. Now that's taught by the
Buddha like passion. So now we at Ochland University we
started the whole program and looking at compassion in healthcare,
and then people are looking at compassion therapies for people
who are very hard in themselves, people who have narratives
which are very unhelpful, like I'm a loser, I'm really
(04:25):
not a good mom, I'm a bad doctor. So people
actually have those narratives what we call lack of self compassion.
So there's therapies now with good evidence that work on that.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So there's sort of two thousand years worth of knowledge
there which we're finally rediscovering rediscovering. Yeah, yeah, And I
think the other important thing to say at the beginning
sort of this conversation is that it doesn't really matter
whether you're religious, or whether you belong to another religion
or not. With your you know, an atheist, there's messages
in here that you can you can take and you
(05:00):
can leave. You know, we're not It's not like by
picking up this book you're going to become a Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
No, in fact, what's the definition of a Buddhist? Even
some Buddhists don't want to be called Buddhists, because if
you call someone Buddhist, they're separating themselves from the rest
of humanity. So the beauty of the Buddhist teachings is
that they're universal and if you don't like them, you
can leave them, leave them and not pay attention to it.
(05:29):
So he's not seeking approval at all.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I will get to some of the hecks in the
book in just a moment, but I'm also very keen
to hear about how you became a Buddhist monk.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, so that's interesting as well. I'm quite a weird person.
I like doing things sometimes extremely so when I started
my PhD in compassion, studying compassion in medicine around twenty
eleven twenty twelve, what sparked that was actually the Buddhist
(06:00):
teachings and compassion, and since I'm studying compassion from an
academic perspective, experiments doing research. I also wanted to train
in a monastery in Burma that specializes in compassion. I
wanted to see how they actually do it. So that
(06:21):
was the first impetus to try to be a Buddhist monk,
not to become a Buddhist monk forever, but I just
wanted to do it, and they're open to that. So
they're open to what you call temporary ordinations. So it
wasn't like a commitment for a lifetime. It's a specific
I think I committed two weeks to dive into it,
and it was a little extreme because Buddhist monks who
(06:45):
practice in that tradition have very very strict lives. It's
mind training, and it's unbelievable from a Western perspective, the
training that they do to soften the mind, to make
the mind open, to make the mind kind. It's very
severe training.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So what's the what's the key to being come and
this chaos?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
A quote? There's no one key, but a common entrance to,
you know, finding the road for come is being aware
that our minds are crazy. Because a lot of us
try to find come from external sources, like we want
(07:36):
to go to a beach, we want to go to
this nice country club, we want to have a massage,
but all of those will end. But learning to be
inquisitive of how the mind actually causes the chaos is key.
And when we were aware that actually the mind is
(07:56):
the major player in this, what can I do to
come the mind? And there are all sorts of approaches.
Mindfulness is of very common way to be aware of
how the mind works and how to commit a little bit.
I wouldn't even say quiet or still it. That's a
(08:18):
very hard ask from the from beginners.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah. That's a common reason why people who do mindfulness
practice fail or not pursue it is they say, my
mind's too busy, I can't meditate.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, actually, because you know, you don't need to meditate
for hours a day like you can. You could sit
and do three minutes a day yep, and benefit from us. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I was teaching meditation at Mount Eden Prison for a
few years, and we would start with one breath, meaning
just being fully attentive to the breath coming in, just
noticing the breath from the moment it goes in, it
reaches it, speak, and then you breathe out. That's the meditation,
(09:06):
and then we discuss it what happened Oh okay, oh yeah,
it's interesting. You know I was thinking of it so
angry at my wife and just one breath. Okay, well,
let's do three breaths. So we gradually expanded and some
of them picked it up to the point I was
actually threw me off the one. One day, one of
(09:28):
the guys said, well, Tony, after our session, I meditate
the whole day. I was I wasn't expecting that. So
one breath, three minutes. It's getting to know your mind.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
In the book, you say that a Buddhism teaching was
reduced to just one phrase, it would be caused no harm. Yes,
And it's really interesting because I was having a conversation
with my eighteen year old son recently and there was
some things going on, and I just remember I just
said them, Look, I just said it all. I say,
just caused no harm. Just think about people, just cause
no harm. And then then I was actually a little
disappointed in myself. I felt like that was a very
(10:07):
low expectation to put on someone. And he's a gorgeous, intelligent,
lovely young man. I thought, I could, you know, I
could lift the bar a little bit. But actually it's
quite hard to constantly make sure that we're causing our
harm and the way we speak to people and the
way we act and the way we treat people.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
And yeah, so that phrase no harm sounds so simple, yeah,
but it's actually complicated. Even in medicine. I'm not sure
if you've heard that one of the key key Uh,
what's this? I wouldn't say edict, but guidelines for doctors
do no harm. But even in day to day non
doctor life, we actually inadvertently cause a lot of harm,
(10:49):
not in terms of our actions, but actually in terms
of our speech. Even the Buddhist time, he knew that
speech causes so much harm that when he the Buddha
likes lists, it's so incredible he likes lists, and I
think he has one list where he said, then harmful
actions that humans tend to do, four of them are
(11:11):
related to speech. And what's harmful speech? Speech? That is
it can be true. People like to say, well, what
I'm telling you is true, You're such a slob. That's true.
But is it not just being true? Is it kind?
Does it cost peace? Is it the right time? What's
(11:34):
your intention?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You can still be honest?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, just and that happens in politics.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Do you know it's funny you should say that, because
I was going to say, we should never underestimate the
power of kindness. But kindness has been sort of politicized
a little over the last few years, or weaponized, weaponized,
and people aren't so fond of the word, even if
deep down they agree with the notion of it. So
how do we embrace kindness again?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, so kindness of beautiful topic. So for me kindness
it should not. Well, kindness is not just focusing on actions.
We have to look at what's our motivation. And one
good motivator for kindness and compassion is to realize that
(12:19):
all of us, despite our external differences, all want the
same thing. We want to be able to have a peaceful,
quiet life, not necessarily quiet, but peaceful, not to problematic life.
We want to be loved. We want a safe place,
(12:41):
we want food, water, we want our kids to be safe,
all of us, regardless of political party, regardless of whether
you're for this ideological group or the other, we're the same.
My worry. I mean, I'm not into politics, but looking
at what's happening, not just in New Zealand, but especially
(13:03):
in the US, we get so hang up and we
grasp on ideologies, and going back to the Buddhist teachings,
it's when we grasp at ideas and ideologies that it
causes suffering, not just to ourselves but others. And that's
(13:24):
what's happening now. I don't see an openness in holding ideas.
And what I mean by that is, for example, I'm
pro a particular philosophy instead of just grasping as if
it's the only correct thing, which is never true. Be
(13:45):
open handed. You're holding your ideology, but you're open to
listening to others because people actually do not come really
from a malicious perspective. They can come off maliciously, but
it's coming from a place where we just want our
people to be safe.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And the grasping is really interesting. You talk about that
throughout the book. With grasping. You know, for our expectations,
we're grasping for pleasure. We're grasping. We want, we want more,
we want better, we want You know that that can
be a motivation in life when I want a bitter
car and all I want a bigger house, and I
want that handbag or whatever it might be. Were just constantly.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Grasp We're a grasping species.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, and it's actually helpful to an extent. It's helpful
for survival because if we're totally ungrasping, then you'll say,
well I don't need to have food, I don't need
to have a safe shelter. Then we're dead. As a species,
so there's a degree of one thing. But the problem
is it's in medice I'll use a medical term. I
(14:48):
can't think of a non medical term. It's hypertrophied, meaning
it's so muscled up that it's just grasping, grasping, grasping.
So the Bodd's saying, well, you know, there has to
be a middle way.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, just just not holding on so tightly, right tiny, Yeah. Look,
it's been such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you
so much, and thank you very much for the book.
I have enjoyed it and there is an awful lot
in there that I'm going to be able to put
into practice and I'm looking forward to doing so, Thank
you very much. Life Hacks from the Buddher is in
stores now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks edb Right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I think most of us can relate to that need
to find calm amongst the world we live in at
the moment. But how do we find that chilled out
version of ourselves? Doctor Tony Fernando is a psychiatrist, a
sleep specialist, an electure at Auckland University and a former
ordained Buddhist monk. He knows a thing or two about
finding calm. His new book is called Life Hacks from
(00:34):
the Buddher and Doctor Tony is with me in the studio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Good morning, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How long have you been a practicing psychiatrist?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Listen, sorry, one of those questions since ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, for a while.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Ages.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Have you seen a difference or a change in what
people are struggling with in life today or are they
the same issues that humans have always dealt with?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's interesting the core issues are the same, but they
just manifest tests differently. So if you really look at
all the different worries that people have, it all boils
down to a tendency to overthink, to catastrophize, to complicate, uncomplicated,
(01:21):
but the superficial complaints might be different in terms of
kids spending too much time on technology. You didn't hear
that in the late nineties. But the worrying is pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
The other thinking and the worrying and things. Has the
world always been this Chaostak?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I'm not sure. Actually I haven't been around that lot.
But my guess is our current day and age has
complicated it because now, I mean the past twenty thirty
fifty years, we've spent more time in our heads. We're
less being paying attention to our body, and in the
(02:00):
past probably people spent more time with the body, working
with their hands, being with their body, like being embodied,
versus overthinking things. It is just a guess.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
How did you just have a Buddhism.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's interesting story. So I grew up Catholic, never been
interested in Eastern philosophy or psychology or religion. But I
picked up the book by the Dalai Lama in two
thousand and four, which captured me. Not because it was
a Dalai Lama, but it was because another psychiatrist interviewed him.
(02:34):
So I'm just interested in, Oh, what's his perspective on anxiety?
And suffering. And around the same time, same year, I
had patients who got better in terms of their destructive
tendencies self harm or even severe anxiety using mindfulness. So
I wasn't interested in mindfulness at all, but I saw
(02:56):
it improve a lot of my patients. So that was
the that caused an intellectual spark for me.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And how has it impacted your life?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, it's for me. It's a game changer. Yeah, using
current technological words, it's more than a software upgrade. It's
a change of operating systems. I'm not a tech ye.
For me, it's just a total shift and how to
live life.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's probably worth mentioning at this point that there is
evidence that the life hecks that the border talks about,
that you speak about, there has actually been quite a
lot of scientific sort of yes, yes, studies done on it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yes, so the past since I think mid seventies OS
are probably mid eighties, that's when the research on mindfulness
started in the US. And since then there's an explosion
of research on mindfulness and how effective it is in
various conditions stress, anxiety, depression, substance abuse, and now they're
(04:03):
also looking at other aspects. Now that's taught by the
Buddha like passion. So now we at Ochland University we
started the whole program and looking at compassion in healthcare,
and then people are looking at compassion therapies for people
who are very hard in themselves, people who have narratives
which are very unhelpful, like I'm a loser, I'm really
(04:25):
not a good mom, I'm a bad doctor. So people
actually have those narratives what we call lack of self compassion.
So there's therapies now with good evidence that work on that.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So there's sort of two thousand years worth of knowledge
there which we're finally rediscovering rediscovering. Yeah, yeah, And I
think the other important thing to say at the beginning
sort of this conversation is that it doesn't really matter
whether you're religious, or whether you belong to another religion
or not. With your you know, an atheist, there's messages
in here that you can you can take and you
(05:00):
can leave. You know, we're not It's not like by
picking up this book you're going to become a Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
No, in fact, what's the definition of a Buddhist? Even
some Buddhists don't want to be called Buddhists, because if
you call someone Buddhist, they're separating themselves from the rest
of humanity. So the beauty of the Buddhist teachings is
that they're universal and if you don't like them, you
can leave them, leave them and not pay attention to it.
(05:29):
So he's not seeking approval at all.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I will get to some of the hecks in the
book in just a moment, but I'm also very keen
to hear about how you became a Buddhist monk.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, so that's interesting as well. I'm quite a weird person.
I like doing things sometimes extremely so when I started
my PhD in compassion, studying compassion in medicine around twenty
eleven twenty twelve, what sparked that was actually the Buddhist
(06:00):
teachings and compassion, and since I'm studying compassion from an
academic perspective, experiments doing research. I also wanted to train
in a monastery in Burma that specializes in compassion. I
wanted to see how they actually do it. So that
(06:21):
was the first impetus to try to be a Buddhist monk,
not to become a Buddhist monk forever, but I just
wanted to do it, and they're open to that. So
they're open to what you call temporary ordinations. So it
wasn't like a commitment for a lifetime. It's a specific
I think I committed two weeks to dive into it,
and it was a little extreme because Buddhist monks who
(06:45):
practice in that tradition have very very strict lives. It's
mind training, and it's unbelievable from a Western perspective, the
training that they do to soften the mind, to make
the mind open, to make the mind kind. It's very
severe training.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So what's the what's the key to being come and
this chaos?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
A quote? There's no one key, but a common entrance to,
you know, finding the road for come is being aware
that our minds are crazy. Because a lot of us
try to find come from external sources, like we want
(07:36):
to go to a beach, we want to go to
this nice country club, we want to have a massage,
but all of those will end. But learning to be
inquisitive of how the mind actually causes the chaos is key.
And when we were aware that actually the mind is
(07:56):
the major player in this, what can I do to
come the mind? And there are all sorts of approaches.
Mindfulness is of very common way to be aware of
how the mind works and how to commit a little bit.
I wouldn't even say quiet or still it. That's a
(08:18):
very hard ask from the from beginners.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah. That's a common reason why people who do mindfulness
practice fail or not pursue it is they say, my
mind's too busy, I can't meditate.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, actually, because you know, you don't need to meditate
for hours a day like you can. You could sit
and do three minutes a day yep, and benefit from us. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I was teaching meditation at Mount Eden Prison for a
few years, and we would start with one breath, meaning
just being fully attentive to the breath coming in, just
noticing the breath from the moment it goes in, it
reaches it, speak, and then you breathe out. That's the meditation,
(09:06):
and then we discuss it what happened Oh okay, oh yeah,
it's interesting. You know I was thinking of it so
angry at my wife and just one breath. Okay, well,
let's do three breaths. So we gradually expanded and some
of them picked it up to the point I was
actually threw me off the one. One day, one of
(09:28):
the guys said, well, Tony, after our session, I meditate
the whole day. I was I wasn't expecting that. So
one breath, three minutes. It's getting to know your mind.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
In the book, you say that a Buddhism teaching was
reduced to just one phrase, it would be caused no harm. Yes,
And it's really interesting because I was having a conversation
with my eighteen year old son recently and there was
some things going on, and I just remember I just
said them, Look, I just said it all. I say,
just caused no harm. Just think about people, just cause
no harm. And then then I was actually a little
disappointed in myself. I felt like that was a very
(10:07):
low expectation to put on someone. And he's a gorgeous, intelligent,
lovely young man. I thought, I could, you know, I
could lift the bar a little bit. But actually it's
quite hard to constantly make sure that we're causing our
harm and the way we speak to people and the
way we act and the way we treat people.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
And yeah, so that phrase no harm sounds so simple, yeah,
but it's actually complicated. Even in medicine. I'm not sure
if you've heard that one of the key key Uh,
what's this? I wouldn't say edict, but guidelines for doctors
do no harm. But even in day to day non
doctor life, we actually inadvertently cause a lot of harm,
(10:49):
not in terms of our actions, but actually in terms
of our speech. Even the Buddhist time, he knew that
speech causes so much harm that when he the Buddha
likes lists, it's so incredible he likes lists, and I
think he has one list where he said, then harmful
actions that humans tend to do, four of them are
(11:11):
related to speech. And what's harmful speech? Speech? That is
it can be true. People like to say, well, what
I'm telling you is true, You're such a slob. That's true.
But is it not just being true? Is it kind?
Does it cost peace? Is it the right time? What's
(11:34):
your intention?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You can still be honest?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, just and that happens in politics.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Do you know it's funny you should say that, because
I was going to say, we should never underestimate the
power of kindness. But kindness has been sort of politicized
a little over the last few years, or weaponized, weaponized,
and people aren't so fond of the word, even if
deep down they agree with the notion of it. So
how do we embrace kindness again?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, so kindness of beautiful topic. So for me kindness
it should not. Well, kindness is not just focusing on actions.
We have to look at what's our motivation. And one
good motivator for kindness and compassion is to realize that
(12:19):
all of us, despite our external differences, all want the
same thing. We want to be able to have a peaceful,
quiet life, not necessarily quiet, but peaceful, not to problematic life.
We want to be loved. We want a safe place,
(12:41):
we want food, water, we want our kids to be safe,
all of us, regardless of political party, regardless of whether
you're for this ideological group or the other, we're the same.
My worry. I mean, I'm not into politics, but looking
at what's happening, not just in New Zealand, but especially
(13:03):
in the US, we get so hang up and we
grasp on ideologies, and going back to the Buddhist teachings,
it's when we grasp at ideas and ideologies that it
causes suffering, not just to ourselves but others. And that's
(13:24):
what's happening now. I don't see an openness in holding ideas.
And what I mean by that is, for example, I'm
pro a particular philosophy instead of just grasping as if
it's the only correct thing, which is never true. Be
(13:45):
open handed. You're holding your ideology, but you're open to
listening to others because people actually do not come really
from a malicious perspective. They can come off maliciously, but
it's coming from a place where we just want our
people to be safe.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And the grasping is really interesting. You talk about that
throughout the book. With grasping. You know, for our expectations,
we're grasping for pleasure. We're grasping. We want, we want more,
we want better, we want You know that that can
be a motivation in life when I want a bitter
car and all I want a bigger house, and I
want that handbag or whatever it might be. Were just constantly.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Grasp We're a grasping species.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, and it's actually helpful to an extent. It's helpful
for survival because if we're totally ungrasping, then you'll say,
well I don't need to have food, I don't need
to have a safe shelter. Then we're dead. As a species,
so there's a degree of one thing. But the problem
is it's in medice I'll use a medical term. I
(14:48):
can't think of a non medical term. It's hypertrophied, meaning
it's so muscled up that it's just grasping, grasping, grasping.
So the Bodd's saying, well, you know, there has to
be a middle way.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, just just not holding on so tightly, right tiny, Yeah. Look,
it's been such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you
so much, and thank you very much for the book.
I have enjoyed it and there is an awful lot
in there that I'm going to be able to put
into practice and I'm looking forward to doing so, Thank
you very much. Life Hacks from the Buddher is in
stores now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Betrayal: Season 4
Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.