November 8, 2025 • 7 mins
Satisfaction for All Blacks coach Scott Robertson in how they wrestled momentum back to clinch a 25-17 win over Scotland in Edinburgh.
A late Damian McKenzie try and penalty secured victory after the home side came from 17-nil down to level the scores going into the final quarter.
Newstalk ZB rugby commentator Elliott Smith says it was a tight game, with Scotland nearly managing to get ahead
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Grand Slam hopes are still alive for the All Blacks.
But that was a tight one at Murrayfield.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Big smile from Damie mckint. Big smile, extend it. Let's
take eighty over your Sunday Morning Breakfast. New Zealand's the
All Blacks hang on.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
A twenty five seventeen win for the All Blacks, but
plenty of questions to be asked after they gave up
a seventeen and a half time lead. News Talk Zidby
head rugby commentator Elliot Smith called the game and he
joins me now from Scotland. Good morning, Elliot, Morning Francisca right,
well three with three yellow cards and schools locked with
(00:56):
five to go with the All Blacks lucky to get
away with this one.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, it's I guess it's a metaphorical question or a
philosophical question. Perhaps more deeply, are you a glass half
full person or a glass half empty person? Because at
seventeen nil up at halftime and the All Blacks in
control of the match, that just struck before halftime with
a well worked try. It felt like they were in
control and they weren't quite home and hose at that point,
(01:22):
but one more try might have been enough to lock
away the win and maybe kick on and really du
us that drive Scotland into the dirt. But things changed
quickly after half time, as you said, and you know
the misreception with Peter Lucky knocking it on straight after
halftime and Scotland say thank you very much for leaving
(01:42):
the door open. We will jam right through this, and
they swung the momentum of the game very, very quickly.
I was impressed by just how quickly it felt like,
even though there were ten points down and then three
points down and then level, but it felt like even
when there were ten points down, they were playing with
the confidence of a team from in front. And it's
all about that psychological, you know, mindset. I guess that
(02:05):
Scottland were able to apply. But from the all Blacks
being seventeen, they'll up to managing to escape twenty five
to seventeen, I guess you can look at the other
direction and go, well, they managed to dig themselves out
of a hole and showed some real strength and grittin
thanks to Damian McKenzie. They're on the winning side of
the ledger. But yeah, as we said, three yellow cards
(02:26):
and you know, manage to get themselves out of jail.
It's it's a tricky one to try and dissect, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That is a problem though. If you spend the game
with fourteen players on the field three times.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yep, it is thirty minutes of time. In that game,
the All Blacks were at less than a full compliment.
Leroy Carter goes off before halftime. We had Ardie Savi
go off and it was a big loss given he
was the captain, and then Wallace Tidi goes off on
the hour mark as well. And to be honest, you
couldn't really argue with either of Leroy Carter or so
(03:04):
TV's ones. Ardie Savia was sort of the way to
accumulated fouls and pulling down a mall that saw him
go off, So you can't argue with them. And that's
where the All Blacks need to be better. They're disciplined, oorsn'
up to scratch and that was part of allowing Scotland
back into it that you had players that are more
(03:24):
fatigued had to play for half an hour with a
man down and they you know, were fatigued by the
end of the game, and that told in those closing
stages as scottlandand coming back into it. So I think
for the All Blacks that's something they're going to absolutely
have to get right as they prepare to go to
twickt next weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And you've been doing interviews and talking to the team postmatch.
What is the general feeling amongst the All Blacks after
that one?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, it's hard to wrap up, I guess for the
All Blacks and hearing from Scott Robertson, you know, ultimately
pleased that they found themselves in a hole and they
managed to get out of it, but didn't want to
be in that hole in the first place. And so
for the All Blacks it is a really hard game
to try and digest. And I'm sure they'll through the
analysis over the coming days because they keep their Grand
(04:14):
Slam hopes alive. But this could have been such a
better win, such a better performance than it was in
the end. So yeah, as I said, seventeen mill up
at halftime, you score, next, Scottland's heads go down and
then they really have to chase the game, and that
provides also more opportunities for the All Blacks. At the
same time, that wasn't what happens, and the All Blacks
(04:35):
went from leading by that margin to basically losing control
of the contest. And you lose the control of the
contest in the Northern Hemisphere, the crowd gets involved. They
can sense blood and for a time in that game,
Scotland certainly sends blood. And it was interesting as well.
Ardie Savier was answering questions postgame and see that it
sort of feels like the questions were aimed at, you know,
(04:57):
feeling like the All Black said lost. But it was
that sort of feeling that it could have been, you know,
a really strong statement performance from the All Blacks, but
they only squeaked home in the end. And look, if
they managed to win the Grand Slam with four wins,
no one's going to care how it unfolded against Scotland.
But this was an opportunity I felt, to really drive
(05:19):
you know, Scotland into the turf and make a real statement.
They left that on the table and it leaves that
door open next week as they head to England, who
I'm sure would have well, they're playing at the same time,
but would have been watching on with interest.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Look, we got the win, that's the most important thing.
But I do wonder though, Elliott, whether you know I'm
sort of sitting watching, as you say, waiting for that
performance where I feel like it's all clicked, and I
feel like I've been waiting all year for one of
those performances from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
That's right, Just give us something, give us something to
hang your hat on, as All Blacks fans and media
pundits and go. That is the performance that gives you
the confidence that the All Blacks are back. I mean,
there's still second in the world, and they've accumulated some
results this year, that is for certain, but they haven't
been able to really deliver a statement and I'm sure
that's a source of frustration for themselves and obviously is
(06:07):
for the wider public as well. And until they are
able to do that, these question marks over the team
will remain. You know, Damien McKenzie had a stormer today
and was mad at the match for twenty twenty five
minutes on the park, but he had to dig his
team out of a hole. You want to get to
a point with the All Blacks where you know, they
are not the ones digging the hole. You know, they're
digging themselves out of a hole. They're digging the hole
(06:28):
for the opposition and throwing in it and you know,
basically throwing the dirt back on top. That's not where
the All Blacks team is at the moment. And for
every promising sign, there's something that scratches your hear and
go what's going on there? So yeah, it's a really
really hard one to try and digest and assess because
they are two from two on the Grand Slam Tour
and before they left New Zealand, if you'd said that,
(06:51):
they would have you know, shaken your hand off and
tried to break it to try and get that. But
there are still question marks over this team as they
head to London next week.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Oh it's going to be pretty exciting. Thank you so
much for your time this morning, Elliott, really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
No problem at all.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Catch you soon, Elliot Smith there live from Scotland.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks the b from nine am Sunday
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Grand Slam hopes are still alive for the All Blacks.
But that was a tight one at Murrayfield.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Big smile from Damie mckint. Big smile, extend it. Let's
take eighty over your Sunday Morning Breakfast. New Zealand's the
All Blacks hang on.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
A twenty five seventeen win for the All Blacks, but
plenty of questions to be asked after they gave up
a seventeen and a half time lead. News Talk Zidby
head rugby commentator Elliot Smith called the game and he
joins me now from Scotland. Good morning, Elliot, Morning Francisca right,
well three with three yellow cards and schools locked with
(00:56):
five to go with the All Blacks lucky to get
away with this one.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, it's I guess it's a metaphorical question or a
philosophical question. Perhaps more deeply, are you a glass half
full person or a glass half empty person? Because at
seventeen nil up at halftime and the All Blacks in
control of the match, that just struck before halftime with
a well worked try. It felt like they were in
control and they weren't quite home and hose at that point,
(01:22):
but one more try might have been enough to lock
away the win and maybe kick on and really du
us that drive Scotland into the dirt. But things changed
quickly after half time, as you said, and you know
the misreception with Peter Lucky knocking it on straight after
halftime and Scotland say thank you very much for leaving
(01:42):
the door open. We will jam right through this, and
they swung the momentum of the game very, very quickly.
I was impressed by just how quickly it felt like,
even though there were ten points down and then three
points down and then level, but it felt like even
when there were ten points down, they were playing with
the confidence of a team from in front. And it's
all about that psychological, you know, mindset. I guess that
(02:05):
Scottland were able to apply. But from the all Blacks
being seventeen, they'll up to managing to escape twenty five
to seventeen, I guess you can look at the other
direction and go, well, they managed to dig themselves out
of a hole and showed some real strength and grittin
thanks to Damian McKenzie. They're on the winning side of
the ledger. But yeah, as we said, three yellow cards
(02:26):
and you know, manage to get themselves out of jail.
It's it's a tricky one to try and dissect, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That is a problem though. If you spend the game
with fourteen players on the field three times.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yep, it is thirty minutes of time. In that game,
the All Blacks were at less than a full compliment.
Leroy Carter goes off before halftime. We had Ardie Savi
go off and it was a big loss given he
was the captain, and then Wallace Tidi goes off on
the hour mark as well. And to be honest, you
couldn't really argue with either of Leroy Carter or so
(03:04):
TV's ones. Ardie Savia was sort of the way to
accumulated fouls and pulling down a mall that saw him
go off, So you can't argue with them. And that's
where the All Blacks need to be better. They're disciplined, oorsn'
up to scratch and that was part of allowing Scotland
back into it that you had players that are more
(03:24):
fatigued had to play for half an hour with a
man down and they you know, were fatigued by the
end of the game, and that told in those closing
stages as scottlandand coming back into it. So I think
for the All Blacks that's something they're going to absolutely
have to get right as they prepare to go to
twickt next weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And you've been doing interviews and talking to the team postmatch.
What is the general feeling amongst the All Blacks after
that one?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, it's hard to wrap up, I guess for the
All Blacks and hearing from Scott Robertson, you know, ultimately
pleased that they found themselves in a hole and they
managed to get out of it, but didn't want to
be in that hole in the first place. And so
for the All Blacks it is a really hard game
to try and digest. And I'm sure they'll through the
analysis over the coming days because they keep their Grand
(04:14):
Slam hopes alive. But this could have been such a
better win, such a better performance than it was in
the end. So yeah, as I said, seventeen mill up
at halftime, you score, next, Scottland's heads go down and
then they really have to chase the game, and that
provides also more opportunities for the All Blacks. At the
same time, that wasn't what happens, and the All Blacks
(04:35):
went from leading by that margin to basically losing control
of the contest. And you lose the control of the
contest in the Northern Hemisphere, the crowd gets involved. They
can sense blood and for a time in that game,
Scotland certainly sends blood. And it was interesting as well.
Ardie Savier was answering questions postgame and see that it
sort of feels like the questions were aimed at, you know,
(04:57):
feeling like the All Black said lost. But it was
that sort of feeling that it could have been, you know,
a really strong statement performance from the All Blacks, but
they only squeaked home in the end. And look, if
they managed to win the Grand Slam with four wins,
no one's going to care how it unfolded against Scotland.
But this was an opportunity I felt, to really drive
(05:19):
you know, Scotland into the turf and make a real statement.
They left that on the table and it leaves that
door open next week as they head to England, who
I'm sure would have well, they're playing at the same time,
but would have been watching on with interest.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Look, we got the win, that's the most important thing.
But I do wonder though, Elliott, whether you know I'm
sort of sitting watching, as you say, waiting for that
performance where I feel like it's all clicked, and I
feel like I've been waiting all year for one of
those performances from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
That's right, Just give us something, give us something to
hang your hat on, as All Blacks fans and media
pundits and go. That is the performance that gives you
the confidence that the All Blacks are back. I mean,
there's still second in the world, and they've accumulated some
results this year, that is for certain, but they haven't
been able to really deliver a statement and I'm sure
that's a source of frustration for themselves and obviously is
(06:07):
for the wider public as well. And until they are
able to do that, these question marks over the team
will remain. You know, Damien McKenzie had a stormer today
and was mad at the match for twenty twenty five
minutes on the park, but he had to dig his
team out of a hole. You want to get to
a point with the All Blacks where you know, they
are not the ones digging the hole. You know, they're
digging themselves out of a hole. They're digging the hole
(06:28):
for the opposition and throwing in it and you know,
basically throwing the dirt back on top. That's not where
the All Blacks team is at the moment. And for
every promising sign, there's something that scratches your hear and
go what's going on there? So yeah, it's a really
really hard one to try and digest and assess because
they are two from two on the Grand Slam Tour
and before they left New Zealand, if you'd said that,
(06:51):
they would have you know, shaken your hand off and
tried to break it to try and get that. But
there are still question marks over this team as they
head to London next week.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Oh it's going to be pretty exciting. Thank you so
much for your time this morning, Elliott, really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
No problem at all.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Catch you soon, Elliot Smith there live from Scotland.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks the b from nine am Sunday
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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