July 30, 2025 • 41 mins
In this edition of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, we hear from the iconic Helena Bonham Carter on her new movie Four Letters of Love and how she reflects on her storied career.
And Francesca speaks with Owain Mulligan who ended up serving in the Iraq War after joining the Territorial Army as an outlet. He's told his story in the book The Accidental Soldier.
Plus Canadian band Cowboy Junkies have been around for four decades and they're touring New Zealand in November. Lead singer Margo Timmins tells us the secret behind the band's longevity.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session.
Listen on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, powered
(00:27):
by News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, host
of the Sunday Session on News Talks EDB, and in
this podcast we picked some of our favorite feat interviews
from over the last month for you to enjoy. Coming
up is former British Army troop leader Owen Mulligan, who
describes his time in the Army as a hobby that
got out of control. He talks us through his first
tour to Iraq in two thousand and six. Also in
(00:50):
the podcast today, the utterly delightful Margot Timmins from Cowboy Junkies.
First up, though a woman who needs little introduction, Helena
Bonham Carter. She joins me to talk about her new
film Four Letters of Love, an adaptation of Nile Williams's novel,
and again by asking her when now Williams adepts his
own book for the big screen. How long does it
(01:11):
take to saying yes to be part of that?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I loved the book like twenty five years before that
call came, and it was like one of my all
time favorites. My mum had given it to me and
I was like, it has us. It's an enchanting book.
And in fact at that time, I need to get
the rights and I need to play Isabelle, who is
the young as you know, And then nothing happened. A
(01:37):
lot of people have tried it Stanny Toutu and lots
of people that it went through different lives and it
is basically an impossible book to adapt. So then when
it came twenty five years later, Niall actually wrote to
me this message. I was trying to find it last
night and I thought, oh my god, he wants me
to play Margaret goare Oh it's meant And because a
lot of the book is about destiny and fate, I thought, oh,
(02:00):
the book has now come to life and now I'm
inveigling eggs in vaguling in to be involved in it.
So it was a sort of fateful thing. And the
man I'm at Polly, I thought, who's got such a
huge amount of Margaret Gore and her I shear determination.
I thought, Yeah, I think I'm meant to be doing this.
(02:22):
I mean, it wasn't a difficult It wasn't a difficult, Yes,
because who wouldn't go to Ireland for three months and
work on one of the best novels of all.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Time and have to be Irish?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Absolutely? Margaret, the character you play, she fear wells her
daughter off the island to finish school on the mainland.
And it's a difficult time for a mother, isn't it
navigating how to allow your children to become independent and
live their own lives and make their own decisions. Did
you relate to that age and stage of motherhood?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think she says something about they leave their childhood
home only to visit it, but you know that's it,
They're just visiting childhood, not ever moving back.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I mean, I've got a twenty one year old boy
who went to UNI and I still got one at home.
But I'm dreading her leaving. It's a horrible time. It's
one of those stages the rights of passages.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
The film is filled with poets and painters and musicians,
people driven to understand the world around them through art,
and obviously this is something that you do for a living,
but in general, do you think it's something that we
still treasure enough today?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
How do you mean?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, I just wonder in this world we're on our
phones the whole time, where you know, where we communicate
with people through our phones, We're sort of living in
a completely different world. I just love the way these
characters sort of embrace the world around and felt this.
You know, they had to paint and write poetry and
there's music in this film. You know, it's sort of
(04:00):
how people express themselves, you know, not via on Instagram post.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, do you think it's the world is being threatened
all the time in our world and our brains and
a free times being eaten up by this monster of
Instagram and the phone and purchase and consuming. I mean,
I know myself because I'm very seduced by that insta entertainment.
(04:26):
There was a time in the book, in the film
that we were filming I think it's Merlo Bay.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
It was off.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There was no signal, so like after the moment of panic,
whenever I'm realized, oh my god, we're just actually going
to have to talk to each other. We were all
cramped in a tiny little cottage living room, me Gabriel
Byrne I can't remember, but a whole bunch of us.
(04:54):
And it was absolutely brilliant because he started telling us
stories and we couldn't be scrolling because there was nothing
to scroll. And I thought, this is what we lack
human connection and I have found it really irritating on
films lately that you know, being part of a film
(05:16):
is fun because there's a new family and there's new
sets of people and you can chat but and people
just interact. But now you walk on a film and
everyone's just self involved on their phone, including all the crew.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
No one could really give up flying monkeys, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
It's just like they're all involved in the in the
world in their phone and not this thing, which is
actually way more nourishing. So yeah, we should banish them,
I am. I'm also banishing phones on film sets because
it's just not very healthy, I don't think, or it's
not nourishing for our souls.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I also loved and felt quite nostalgic about the letter
writing in the film that you know, these days people
use check GPT to write a birthday cad. We really
are you know, we really are kind of losing the
skill and the of handwriting and the personal nature of
letter writing, would you agree.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah, totally, I still have. I have.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I'm really into writing, so I've got a calligraphy thing,
and I love inc and I like the physicality and
of paper and pen and that I've got a thing
about stationary so I totally. And I've also got an
aunt who is a calligrapher, a gruphologist who analyzes handwriting,
so you know, in her she's getting there. Soon people
(06:34):
there won't be much handwriting term to analyze. It is
really really sad. The act of a letter is very precious. Yeah,
slowly we're becoming all vanquished by it, by technology and
chatbots and.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
But the letter.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Yeah, four Letters of Love. I think hopefully.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
People will you know, react and will become Luodites again.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
An incredible cast, as you mentioned before, Pierce Brosna and
Gabriell Burr and yourself, also filled with some fabulous young actors.
You know, I just loved and Scaley as easy. I
thought she was really wonderful. Do you look at filmmaking
these days and think to yourself, you know, when you
obviously you've just mentioned everyone's on their phones on seats.
But when you're looking at these young actors coming through
(07:24):
in the industry they're existing in, is it completely different
to when you started out when you were young.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think it is very, very different because I think
there's so many of them. There were so many of
us when we started too, but all the self taping
that's happened, you know, over COVID, people don't necessarily meet
people anymore. Casting people don't necessarily meet the actors meet
actors just sent tapes in so it's a much less
personal thing. Always when it comes to it, people are
(07:53):
balls of energy, and you can't get to know someone
through just on the screen. It's connectivity. Until you meet someone,
I think you really can't know if what they're like,
you get the feel of the person and then see
how they interact with one's own energy.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So I think it's very hard.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And then of course because of the phone, it gets
more and more facist. It's more about what you look like,
and yeah, I'm really glad I don't exist in this
in this time. And also all these people making comments
about you. It's a bit like being well known, which
I've been well known and know not to look up
what people think of me who don't know me, because
(08:35):
there's always going to be cruel. And now you've got
everyone being well known through you know, Instagram, and.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
People are so bitchy. They're bitchy when they can be anonymous.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But I think something I've always very much admired about
you is that you matched the beat of your own drum.
Would there be fair to say you haven't. I feel
like you've put boundaries up around you to cope with
this industry that you're.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
In the only way you can do it, otherwise you
go completely bonkers. And does it really matter? You know,
it's I don't want to offend anyone. God help me,
you know. I don't want to offend or hurt. But
if people don't like me, what can I do? So
I'm really sorry. So you know you're not going to
please everyone.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Forty years since A Room with a View was released,
you were nineteen years old. That was the first film
where I meet you. You could say on screen, You've
played so many varied, but rich roles over the year.
Do you reflect on it often? No, not even a
gentle reminisce.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Occasionally I'll reminisce when I hear somebody's died, you know,
and then go back to then the younger self that
I was with, you know, when I was with that person,
I mean, or I meet someone.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I've met a lot of people, which is I think
the greatest gift by product of this working in this
career so long. So I've had so many fun It's
also been a lark and a laugh because you get
all this stories and then and getting to know people.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
As well as the fiction that you're playing.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
And it's been the variety has been quite extraordinary of
country place people writing parts. There's been a lot of moving,
you know things, so it's not been boring.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And it's appealed to so many people across generations. I
mentioned tonight that I was I was coming in to
talk to you, and as I said, you know, I
first saw you forty years ago, and my sixteen year
old daughter tonight was really excited I was coming to
talk to you, I was.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
She excited.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, how many it How fantastic?
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Is there is that Bellatrix or is that possibly?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, there's a lot of different It wasn't really deliberate,
but I just sort of did whatever was new. I
suppose there is a part of it go like, oh, oh,
I haven't done that before.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
So but it's quite fun.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
When people are veering towards you, you know that it's
going to be can have a photo or I really
liked you in and then when it's like unlikely, you think, oh,
that's another room that's going to be much an ivory person.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And then in fact, eighty year old woman the other
day veering toward them saying, oh God, here we go.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Loved you in fight club, my darling, and you feel
like that's the most unlikely one that I thought was
very funny.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Helena, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Love you to talk to you, lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Dan.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The biggest names from the Sunday session great chats with
Franchiska Rudgins on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks, it'd be
that was Helena Bonham Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So delightful. I don't get nervous interviewing people very often.
I'm very fortunate I get to interview a lot of
people how I admire a lot. But I was a
little nervous interviewing both Helena and and Robbie Williams. But
they both turned out to be wonderful, and they both
called me darling. There we go right next up, I
(12:15):
have a guest for you who isn't famous, although his
sister is actress Carrie Mulligan. Owen Mulligan was a teacher
by trade, and he joined the Territorial Army as an
outlet and something to do on the weekends. Little did
he know the training would lead him to Iraq, not
just as a soldier, but leading a fighting troop. Owen
kept a diary during his seven months in Iraq. He's
(12:36):
now turned those writings into a book. It's called The
Accidental Soldier. It is a wonderful book. It's terrifying, it's funny,
it's really moving. It's brilliantly written. I started our conversation
by asking why he joined the Territorial Army.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
That's a good question, that's a really good question. Why
young men do lots of things. I think testosterone had
a lot to do with it. Kind of wanderlust had
a lot to do with it. Wanting to do something
a bit different from you know, just sitting in an
office or as I was kind of working as a teacher.
I think probably you know, impressing girls may have had
something to do with it. What it definitely wasn't was
(13:14):
a kind of a deep innate calling for being in
the military, or a kind of deep sense of belief
in queen and country. So it complicated a set of reasons,
but no non very noble ones, I'm afraid.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So then, did you have any idea where this journey
might lead you?
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Kind of?
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I think by that point I was in the TA
in kind of two thousand. I joined by two thousand
and three, so I think the writing was on the
wall in terms of, you know, it was going to
be an Iraq and Afghanistan kind of focused ten years.
I never really anticipated ending up doing the job I
did in Iraq, So being a troop leader and kind
of running a troop of professional soldiers, I thought maybe
there was an edge chance that I might get deployed
(13:53):
to a headquarters somewhere or some kind of liaison job.
I certainly never expected the streets of Basra in kind
of you know, two thousand and six, when things were starting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
To spin out a bit, you end up volunteering for
a seven month tour to you're twenty three. I was
a little taken back at how little experience you really
needed to do that.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
I mean, the Army was running super hot at the time,
or the British Army was anyway. So we had We've
been in Iraq for a couple of years, we'd just
gone into Helmand kind of looking for a new adventure,
and so really it was a case of kind of
scraping the barrel.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I think nowadays or almost.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
At any point since then, it probably wouldn't have been
allowed because, as you say, I was kind of very
very inexperienced. I've done about a month at Sandhurst, a
few kind of weekend exercises, but yeah, they were they
were they were really hot, hurting for manpower at that point.
Speaker 7 (14:43):
So I think I was the best of what was left.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So really was it a month's training essentially kind of.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Formalized training at Sandhurst, Yeah, which is kind of where
we where we train our officers. I had about a
month there, and then post kind of post call up,
I had about three months in Germany with my unit
doing kind of what they call pre deployment training, which
is actually I mean it's excellent. The Army is very
method in terms of how they train you. So if
they think that you're going to get set on fire
(15:10):
in a riot in Basra, they'll set you on fire
in a car park in Germany. Getting you ready for that.
If they think you'll get beaten up, they'll beat you
up in Germany. So you know, that training was excellent
and kind of really got my head into the game.
But before that, yeah, it's been about about a month
and then a few kind of weekends here and there.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You were made through troop leader. You're going to be
leading a fighting troop. What was your reaction to that?
Speaker 6 (15:32):
I think, as I write in the book, my squadron
leader was, you know, a big grin all over his
face when he told me I was going to be
a true leader, because it's what people join the army
to do. I was very aware of my lack of experience,
and my immediate reaction was to try not to be
sick all over myself through nerves. I was very lucky
in the sense that my soldiers, as lots of soldiers
are almost all of them in fact, are really good
(15:54):
at kind of getting on board with the idea that
they will at some point have a really inexperienced officer.
Because the army is kind of like an apprenticeship. You know,
we need senior officers at some point. They need to
kind of learn what they're doing, so inevitably there are
going to be cases where where soldiers are central operations
with inexperienced officers. You kind of learn on the job.
And the guys were great at kind of getting on
(16:14):
board with that. I think, you know, if I was them,
and I've had to bite my tongue more than once
when I gave some of my more lunatic orders, but
they were unbelievable in terms of just letting me learn
the ropes as we went along, guiding me a lot
of them a lot more experienced than me, and just
really you know, making sure that I got my head
into the job as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You arrive in Bezra, what is it like hitting out
as a camp for the first time.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
So the first time you head out, you're absolutely terrified.
And the reason for that is that, you know, obviously,
all of your pre deployment training there's a limited amount
of time.
Speaker 7 (16:44):
To kind of teach you everything you need to know.
So every time you go out.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Of the gate in training, it's carnage, Like people are
getting blown up people are dying, you know, they're kind
of squirting fake blood all over you. There's you know,
vehicles on fire, all that kind of stuff. So the
first time you go out of the gate for real
in Iraq, you're kind of almost assuming that's what it's
going to be like on the streets, and it takes
makes you a few patrols to realize that you know, actually,
(17:09):
you know, you might be in your your snatch Landrover
or your armored vehicle, but around you kind of ninety
nine point nine recurring percent of people are just people
trying to live their lives, you know, go to the shops,
take their kids to school, get the car fixed.
Speaker 7 (17:24):
You know, you name it.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Just those kind of domestic hum drum things. And it's
not necessarily a kind of end to end undermissing blood bath. Now,
occasionally things do go wrong and you encounter that kind
of you know, point one percent of the population who
are who don't want you there and making that very clear.
But yeah, there's a real difference in your kind of
initial sense of trepidation and what it's actually like when
(17:46):
you go on the ground for.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The first time, the fist bombing experience that you have
the Moator Tech overnight at the camp. Can you describe
what that was like, because it is that moment where
it dawns on you that people are trying to make
a concerted effort to kill you.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yes, yes, I mean to set the scene. We were
in a kind of port cabin building about eighty of us.
We had been mortared, you know, a fair bit before,
so people had lob rockets and mortars at us, but
it had been fairly kind of ineffective and not very accurate.
This time, I think, you know, in retrospect, we were
probably being mortared by professionals. So they dropped about sixty
(18:22):
rounds over the course of ten minutes in and around
this kind of kilometer square camp. You know, one of
those rounds kind of blew the corner off a building
next to ours, and it's like being kind of trapped
on the worst kind of theme park experience ever, Like
it's pitch black every ten seconds as an absolutely enormous explosion,
which you kind of feel almost rather than here. You
(18:43):
can hear, you know, people in other buildings kind of
screaming because they've been they'd been wounded, and it's horrible,
and you know, part of I think why I found
it maybe a bit harder than perhaps some of my peers,
certainly some of my soldiers, is that I had, you know,
up to that point, and had an unbelievably sheltered life,
like I think I say in the book, like you know,
everyone has just spent twenty years telling me what a
(19:05):
precious little flower I am and how well I'm doing
at school in university and all that kind of stuff.
So when someone actually really tries very hard to kill you,
you're just not used to the idea that anyone would
kind of take against you as it were.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
You know, you think you're a reasonable person.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
You've gone on with everyone you've ever met, and here's
this personal people dropping dropping quite a lot of waters
on you. So in amongst the kind of the prime
war fear, there's a real kind of I had a
real reset of my expectations of life in the universe
that you know, no one was going to stop it
and say, actually, you're a good lad, you don't deserve this,
And they were going to try and try and push
(19:39):
it as far as they could until I was killed.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Do you ever get used to it?
Speaker 6 (19:42):
You do get I mean, I do that kind of
intensity of barrage. I think you would struggle, and I'm
sure people did in you know, World War two and
World War One, which kind of put what we did,
you know, really pales into comparison. I think you can
get used to you you build up a bit of
a shell where actually you kind of realize that, you know,
once that's happened, once you've been shot at, once you've
(20:05):
just seen you know, people rioting, that actually people do
want to hurt you, and it's not you know, necessarily
you can't be Michelle Pfeiffer in kind of dangerous minds
and just you know, talk to everyone and talk them
all around, like some people just do not want you
there and and they want to hurt you.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
So you kind of get used to that.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
I don't think you ever really get used to being
kind of properly mortared or properly rocketed.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
I think that's that's a bit much.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You talk about the fear and how you've never felt
fear like it, and I'm sure that one of those
moments that was very difficult for you, was a very
tense time, was when you accidentally drove your troops into
the minefield. I hope you don't just bringing that up.
It wasn't a good day at the office.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
It wasn't a good day at the office. It didn't
didn't make me look good to the boys or indeed
to my boss. Yeah, you know, I was taking a shortcut.
It's something the army tells you never ever to do.
Always follow the proven routes they drill into you. You
kind of wonder at the time, and why are they
really going at me about this kind of concept of
the proven route and making sure you know where you're going.
(21:08):
And then eventually, you know, a few years later, you
find yourself reversing out of a minefield very slowly with
the pressure plate on an anti tank mind game between
the wheels of your landrover, and you realize why they
were making such a big deal out of it. So, yeah,
you know, that's a kind of different fear. That is
one that's a bit more kind of icy cold as
opposed to kind of visceral. It's layered on with the
(21:29):
realization that you're the one who took the soldiers, or
you took your troop into the minefield. So if you
do hit a landmine, you know, not only have you
got some you know, not only have your soldiers been hurt,
but it's on you, which which adds an extra kind
of little free.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Song to the to the experience. But yes, you know,
it taught me a lesson.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
I never did that again, and that was the first
and last mindfield I've ever driven into.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
You paint a picture of the timing everything from last
to boredom to tira to adrenaline pumping moments. Is that
the reality?
Speaker 7 (22:01):
That's yeah, I mean, that's kind of it.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
And what's been lovely is I've had quite a lot
of feedback from people, other soldiers from different time periods,
but certainly people on that tour who have said that
they've not read books before that have kind of captured
how you go from hilarity to tragedy to you know,
sometimes hilarity again in the space of you know, a
few minutes, so you can be as you know, we
(22:25):
were at one point handing a convoy over to some Italians,
swapping kind of ration packs with them, you know, drinking
their kind of red wine that they get in their
ration packs. You know, the boys are chatting up one
of their medics, they're practicing Italian accents. It's all kind
of super convivial. You know, everyone's having a great time.
You kind of get back into your vehicle with a
smile on your face, and everyone's kind of bantering about
(22:47):
the experience. And then half an hour later, someone comes
over the radio and says, you know those Italians you
just handed to become way over to when half an
hour down the road they've been blown up and they've
had multiple casualties and one of them is now dead.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
And that's just how operations are. You know. You can
be sitting in your tent watching.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
Glee someone sticks the head in and tells you that
a helicopter's gone down in the middle of Majra City,
and you know you're probably going in that kind of
juxtaposition and going from laughing out loud to crying. You know,
sometimes it's just the nature I think of probably quite
a lot of warfare. But certainly, certainly that's all.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Because there's the experience of reading the book as well.
I mean, I was laughing out loud. You're write beautifully
and you've got a great sense of humor, and I'd
be laughing out loud, and then I feel very uncomfortable
about it, because you know, in the nixt minute you're
not laughing out loud. You understand the gravity of what
you're talking about. But I did wonder whether at times
it did feel like you were in a black comedy.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
Yeah, I mean it does.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
It feelt like you know, The Army in many senses,
is a very long running sitcom that just has some
kind of you know, gut punch moments and soldiers. You know,
my soldiers used a lot of black humor to cope
with some of the things that they kind of saw
and went.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
Through, and it really, you.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Know, it's quite effective coping method, particularly when you're doing
it with people have shared that experience with you, and
it kind of you know, it's no substitute I think
for proper talking and therapy and you know, other kinds
of treatment when you get home if you've been exposed
to really bad stuff. But in the moment, it can
really take the edge off some fairly fairly horrible moments.
(24:22):
So I think, you know, there's a reason why people
soldiers and I'm sure members of the emergency services, you know,
other kind of folks like that, do default to joking
about things that otherwise you would cry about.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh and when you return to the UK from Bezra
how different was the general public's perception of Iraq and
what was happening there compared to your experience.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
I think people were, I mean understandably not that kind
of switched on to it. I think it was pretty
clear by that point. You know, if it had ever
been a kind of a conflict or a war in
the national interest, it certainly wasn't. Now there were no wnds,
you know, it was a little bit unclear what it
was that we were still doing there. Afghanistan had kind
(25:04):
of kicked off in earnest, so the parachute regimen were out.
They're kind of winning medals and getting into loads of firefights.
So there was a kind of element of, you know,
just being a bit forgotten, but also not being easy
to kind of get too upset about that, because actually
you kind of realize what relevance does a lot of
this have to people's lives. You kind of wish that
people knew a bit more about what soldiers are willing
to do for the country, even if not in a
(25:26):
cause that anyone.
Speaker 7 (25:27):
Can get particularly excited about.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
I found it hard to get very kind of, you know,
wound up about people not caring because I can kind
of understand why people wouldn't. I just wish maybe that,
and part of the reason for writing the book that
people were a bit clued in to what we ask
these young men and women to do to this day
and actually now and probably more worthy immediate causes, like,
(25:51):
for example, sitting in Eastern Europe acting as a kind
of forward to terran and what we asked them to
do for not very much in return.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You did another two tours to Afghanistan after Iraq. Did
you ever think that you would make a career out
of this?
Speaker 7 (26:04):
No?
Speaker 6 (26:05):
No, I was actually, and you could probably get this
from reading the book, not a very good soldier. So
it was kind of like a hobby that got wildly
out of hand and ended up sending me on three
operational tools. There's bits I loved about the army. I
loved the travel in Afghanistan. I was a linguist, so
I spent eighteen months on a long language course and
then got to use that in theater, worked with and
(26:28):
certainly met some Kiwis out there in Afghanistan, where you
guys are very present.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
But it was never going to be a career. There's
plenty of stuff.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
About the Army that you know, structure wise and kind
of it's slightly pigheaded refusals to do sensible things sometimes
that I don't get on with. So, notwithstanding the fun
I had on operations, it was never really a proper.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Job for me.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So you thought, to yourself, management consultant, I'm going to
have a nice, quiet, suburban life with my family. That's me.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
That is Yeah, there are moments and you know, a
lot of people who kind of write to me about
the book who've been on operations kind of talk about
how they'd never want to go back again ever now,
but they still miss the camaraderie, the kind of simplicity
of life. But there is a lot to be said
for being a management consultant with two children one on
the way and living in kind of North London in
(27:17):
terms of having a quiet life. I don't regret anything
I did in the military or joining the military in
the first place, but I realized I was lucky to
get away with it, and it's something that's good to
look back on. Maybe sometimes at the time was less
enjoyable to experience.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session Great
Jets with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
It'd be that was Owen Mulligan. The book is called
The Accidental Soldier and I highly recommend it. Up next,
a bit of a blast from the past. Canadian band
Cowboy Junkies have been around for forty years and they're
touring New Zealand in November to celebrate. I caught up
with lead singer Mago Timmins to talk about the band's
incredible longevity and the key to these success. The band
(28:04):
was only here a few years ago, so I started
by asking her why they were so keen to head
back to New Zealand.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
We had such a good time, the audiences were amazing,
so you know, we always wanted to get back, but
you know, in that twenty year gap, but there was
life got in the way. And then when we got
back in twenty three, it was just so overwhelming and
so much fun, and we enjoyed not only playing in
(28:32):
the audiences, but also the country. Especially in New Zealand,
it's just overwhelmingly beautiful. I think everybody's taking a holiday
either before or afterwards so they can see more of
your country.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I'm pleased to hear that the tour is a forty
year anniversary tour, which is kind of incredible. Forty years ago,
starting out in Toronto in the eighties, did you imagine
that you would still be touring the world in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 8 (28:59):
No, Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think back that it's
been forty years. I mean in those early days, you know,
when we put out Whites Off Earth Now, and I
certainly remember holding that album in my hand and being
so overwhelmed that I had an album, you know, let alone.
(29:21):
I certainly didn't think I'd still be around forty years later.
So yeah, it's pretty it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We all change as we age. How has forty years
changed the band?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Well, definitely, I hope hopefully. I believe we are much
better players. I think, you know, the way I would
describe us now as a band is that we breathe together.
You know, we all know. You know, if somebody wants
to take a song in a direction and go, oh, okay,
(29:57):
he's going there, I'm going to go with him and
be able to do it really seamlessly, and which makes
the playing so much more fun. You know, some of
these songs we've been we're playing are forty years old,
but we're still enjoy playing them because they can go
wherever we take them, and and I love that. I
(30:18):
find the playing so much more fun than it ever was.
I also think as you age, just personally, you know,
you you stop, you stop worrying about all the little
stuff like you know, what you look like, and how
many people are here, and who's in the audience or
who isn't in the audience. You just you're just playing
(30:38):
your show. And so it's just all about the music now,
not about the business, not about the look or anything else.
And that's that's that's a freedom, a real freedom.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Was that ever a huge concern to you? I always
sort of felt that the Cowboy Junkies were very was
a band that was very much themselves, that they didn't
cater to sort of what the industry expected of them
or to look at and way in things. But obviously
there was some prescire there maybe earlier on.
Speaker 8 (31:12):
Definitely there was a lot, especially with me. You know,
I I I got a lot of attention as a female.
You know, I got my picture taken a lot, and
I and they wanted me to do a lot of things.
You know, I got movie scripts and I think, you know,
(31:33):
Clara All offered me a hair commercial, you know, to
shake my head in my hair, but it wasn't me.
And of course our management and our record companies wanted
me to do that, because the more you do, the
bigger you are and the more people will hear your music.
But I never felt comfortable. My brothers never ever pushed
(31:53):
me in any way. We always just did whatever felt
normal or natural or are not embarrassing we did. And
anything that felt awkward we just we just didn't do it.
We just it wasn't us. We didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
One thing I think is quite incredible about you guys
is that over these forty years you've never broken up.
I don't believe you've taken a break. I don't know
if there are that many bands who could have gone
this long without a bit of a change in the lineup.
Speaker 8 (32:25):
Yeah, well you know years ago. You know I was
years ago. It means ten years ago, which probably means
twenty years ago. The Rolling Stone for an article of
sort of you know, bands that have had the same singer,
bands who've done this, and there was one category, which
is bands that have lasted over twenty years or something
(32:46):
that have had the same lineup and it was US,
Aerosmith and U two. So you know, it was pretty
it was pretty pretty amazing to really think about it,
that there aren't a lot of bands that haven't had
people quit or the band has stopped and and you know, restarted,
(33:10):
reunioned tours and all that, but have stayed together constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's pretty rare, it is. So what is the
key to staying together as a band.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
But for us, I think I'm not gonna say we've
never had conflict. Of course we did have, but I
think we've always kept what's the most important thing to us,
which has always been playing. And I think we've always
appreciated that what we do as Cowboy Junkies is because
(33:44):
of the four of us. It's yes, I could go
off and sing with another band, and I'm sure I
would enjoy it very much, but it wouldn't be Couble
Junkies that you know. We could change the bass player
and that would be great, and he'd be a great
place payer, but it wouldn't be what we four do.
And I think it's the four of us together. You know,
maybe we're crazy, but that's what we believe and and
(34:06):
we still we still get a lot of pleasure out
of it. Uh, you know, like I was saying, even
more so now, I think than we ever did. So
I think we when we're when we're not happy, we
talk things out and because we just we just don't
want it to end. Yet you know, it's not. It's
not over, So some stupid disagreement isn't worth worth blowing
(34:28):
us up.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
What is it being like to work so closely and
remain so close to your brothers?
Speaker 8 (34:36):
Yeah, I mean I find that the most amazing thing,
you know, because we do spend so much time together.
I mean, I'm up here at a cottage with my
brother Pete, who's the drummer. You think, you know, don't
you get enough time with each other?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
We enjoy each other's company, you know. And and again
I think there's a lot of respect for each other.
So so we you know, we're not children anymore. We're
trying to dominate each other with our or whatever, you know,
our attitude, And yeah, we we do. We enjoy each
other's company, so that's nice. And we also enjoy each
(35:16):
other's spouses company, which is even nicer. So we are
lucky that way.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Did you all grow up with sort of similar taste
in music or similar inspirations. We've seen some of the
inspirations that you've had as a band on the album
songs of the Recollections. But was music prominent in your
household growing up?
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Yes, very much. I mean we weren't a band that,
you know where like a lot of Canadian especially East
Coast Canadians, where you you know, you grow up and
everybody plays me, you know, an instrument and gets it together.
We were never that that family. But my dad loved music,
and our dad loved music, and when he came home
(35:56):
from work, the first thing you do was go to
is reel to reel and put on some music and
then he come and say hello to everybody. And I
think he really instilled in us that how music is
so important to just get through life, and it's a
thing that allows you to express yourself and to let
go of any you know, demons or whatever. So we
(36:21):
had that, and my dad also really believed that each
of us had our own tastes. So you know, he
never sort of put he might not have liked what
we were listening to, but he never sort of put
it down, you know, and so when we were young, Christmas,
especially when we were teenagers there were six kids, you
always call it a flat Christmas because under the tree,
(36:44):
our gifts to each other would all be albums, just
be you know, and basically you bought the album you
wanted and then it would be in the house. And
that way, you know, we'd be sharing out each other's
albums and you know that they all wanted would be
somewhere in the house, somebody's room. So it was it
was yes, music was very important. Was just kids and state.
(37:08):
And then you know, Mike and I were at the
punk era age, so we saw a lot of the
great punk bands in the in the seventies and and
and al al as well. We were all of the same.
You know, we'd hang out together watching driving to New
York City to see a van and turning around driving
back to get to work the next day.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
It was pretty pretty intense time.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
So we went through that era together, which I think
inspired a lot of what's in Cupboard Junkies. Not that
we're a punk band, but I think our attitude is
a punk band, and that whatever we want to do
is what we're going to do, and hopefully somebody will
like it or not.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I read that you said that you used to be
nervous on State, but it's now one of your most
comfortable places. How long did that take to change?
Speaker 8 (37:57):
A while? You know, definitely after Trinity Session A caution
horses still nervous Black Eyed Man. You know, I think
a big turn came in when we toured Black Eyed Man.
We toured with John Prime, and we were sharing the
(38:18):
bill and I got to know John very well, and
he was so Watching him on stage was just inspirational.
He just he was like he was walking into his
living room and his attitude was always to give a
good show. But they didn't like it. He didn't care,
you know, not his Problemly did his best and I
(38:40):
would go out every night and sing Angels from Montgomery
with him and he'd come on to my stage.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And I think that was huge for me.
Speaker 8 (38:48):
I think that's when I really began to realize, you know,
do my best, and whatever happens happens, and not to
worry about it so much, and to let the audience
see a little bit more of me, you know, which
you know, I'm not shy, I never was, but standing
in front of an audience didn't feel that comfortable, you know,
(39:08):
and so I began chatting. Now they can't shut them up.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Mike, you mentioned that when you come to New Zealand
you're all going to sort of try and take a
holiday here around the tour. Are you going to get
some fly fishing in while you're here.
Speaker 8 (39:22):
Well, my brother Mike's a huge fly fisherman, and I
know last time he did that, he and Jeff went
off before our tour and did a lot of fishing.
I think this time he's coming with his wife, so
I don't think there'll be much fishing.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It's nice to have a hobby that you can engage
with while you're on tour. Doesn't it just to sort
of take you out of the grind? I suppose.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
I mean I think Mike has most of that. You know,
his fishing takes them into the woods, you know, out
of the cities, which is a wonderful thing. You know,
a lot of us definitely try to go to countries
either before or after, to spend more time hanging out
and seeing more than just the cities because on to
(40:10):
where that's where you are. Yeah, I mean, I think
travel is something we all enjoy and meeting new people
and the different people, and it becomes a big part
of who you are when you're constantly doing.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
It like we are your best guest from the Sunday
session Great Jazz with Francesca rudget on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks I'd Be.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That was Margo Timmins, lead singer of Cowboy Junkies. When
you think about it, I mean, it is pretty remarkable
to still be going after forty years with the same
lineup and you've never broken up or never taken a break.
I also think it's so refreshing to hear how they
stay true to themselves and who they are. It could
be a difficult thing to do in the music industry. Hey,
(40:54):
thanks for joining me on this News Talks He'd Be podcast.
Please feel free to share these chats, and if you
like this podcast, make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget we release
a new episode of rate Chats on the last Thursday
of every month.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a b from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, powered
(00:27):
by News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, host
of the Sunday Session on News Talks EDB, and in
this podcast we picked some of our favorite feat interviews
from over the last month for you to enjoy. Coming
up is former British Army troop leader Owen Mulligan, who
describes his time in the Army as a hobby that
got out of control. He talks us through his first
tour to Iraq in two thousand and six. Also in
(00:50):
the podcast today, the utterly delightful Margot Timmins from Cowboy Junkies.
First up, though a woman who needs little introduction, Helena
Bonham Carter. She joins me to talk about her new
film Four Letters of Love, an adaptation of Nile Williams's novel,
and again by asking her when now Williams adepts his
own book for the big screen. How long does it
(01:11):
take to saying yes to be part of that?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I loved the book like twenty five years before that
call came, and it was like one of my all
time favorites. My mum had given it to me and
I was like, it has us. It's an enchanting book.
And in fact at that time, I need to get
the rights and I need to play Isabelle, who is
the young as you know, And then nothing happened. A
(01:37):
lot of people have tried it Stanny Toutu and lots
of people that it went through different lives and it
is basically an impossible book to adapt. So then when
it came twenty five years later, Niall actually wrote to
me this message. I was trying to find it last
night and I thought, oh my god, he wants me
to play Margaret goare Oh it's meant And because a
lot of the book is about destiny and fate, I thought, oh,
(02:00):
the book has now come to life and now I'm
inveigling eggs in vaguling in to be involved in it.
So it was a sort of fateful thing. And the
man I'm at Polly, I thought, who's got such a
huge amount of Margaret Gore and her I shear determination.
I thought, Yeah, I think I'm meant to be doing this.
(02:22):
I mean, it wasn't a difficult It wasn't a difficult, Yes,
because who wouldn't go to Ireland for three months and
work on one of the best novels of all.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Time and have to be Irish?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Absolutely? Margaret, the character you play, she fear wells her
daughter off the island to finish school on the mainland.
And it's a difficult time for a mother, isn't it
navigating how to allow your children to become independent and
live their own lives and make their own decisions. Did
you relate to that age and stage of motherhood?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think she says something about they leave their childhood
home only to visit it, but you know that's it,
They're just visiting childhood, not ever moving back.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I mean, I've got a twenty one year old boy
who went to UNI and I still got one at home.
But I'm dreading her leaving. It's a horrible time. It's
one of those stages the rights of passages.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
The film is filled with poets and painters and musicians,
people driven to understand the world around them through art,
and obviously this is something that you do for a living,
but in general, do you think it's something that we
still treasure enough today?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
How do you mean?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, I just wonder in this world we're on our
phones the whole time, where you know, where we communicate
with people through our phones, We're sort of living in
a completely different world. I just love the way these
characters sort of embrace the world around and felt this.
You know, they had to paint and write poetry and
there's music in this film. You know, it's sort of
(04:00):
how people express themselves, you know, not via on Instagram post.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, do you think it's the world is being threatened
all the time in our world and our brains and
a free times being eaten up by this monster of
Instagram and the phone and purchase and consuming. I mean,
I know myself because I'm very seduced by that insta entertainment.
(04:26):
There was a time in the book, in the film
that we were filming I think it's Merlo Bay.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
It was off.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There was no signal, so like after the moment of panic,
whenever I'm realized, oh my god, we're just actually going
to have to talk to each other. We were all
cramped in a tiny little cottage living room, me Gabriel
Byrne I can't remember, but a whole bunch of us.
(04:54):
And it was absolutely brilliant because he started telling us
stories and we couldn't be scrolling because there was nothing
to scroll. And I thought, this is what we lack
human connection and I have found it really irritating on
films lately that you know, being part of a film
(05:16):
is fun because there's a new family and there's new
sets of people and you can chat but and people
just interact. But now you walk on a film and
everyone's just self involved on their phone, including all the crew.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
No one could really give up flying monkeys, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
It's just like they're all involved in the in the
world in their phone and not this thing, which is
actually way more nourishing. So yeah, we should banish them,
I am. I'm also banishing phones on film sets because
it's just not very healthy, I don't think, or it's
not nourishing for our souls.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I also loved and felt quite nostalgic about the letter
writing in the film that you know, these days people
use check GPT to write a birthday cad. We really
are you know, we really are kind of losing the
skill and the of handwriting and the personal nature of
letter writing, would you agree.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah, totally, I still have. I have.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I'm really into writing, so I've got a calligraphy thing,
and I love inc and I like the physicality and
of paper and pen and that I've got a thing
about stationary so I totally. And I've also got an
aunt who is a calligrapher, a gruphologist who analyzes handwriting,
so you know, in her she's getting there. Soon people
(06:34):
there won't be much handwriting term to analyze. It is
really really sad. The act of a letter is very precious. Yeah,
slowly we're becoming all vanquished by it, by technology and
chatbots and.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
But the letter.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Yeah, four Letters of Love. I think hopefully.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
People will you know, react and will become Luodites again.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
An incredible cast, as you mentioned before, Pierce Brosna and
Gabriell Burr and yourself, also filled with some fabulous young actors.
You know, I just loved and Scaley as easy. I
thought she was really wonderful. Do you look at filmmaking
these days and think to yourself, you know, when you
obviously you've just mentioned everyone's on their phones on seats.
But when you're looking at these young actors coming through
(07:24):
in the industry they're existing in, is it completely different
to when you started out when you were young.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think it is very, very different because I think
there's so many of them. There were so many of
us when we started too, but all the self taping
that's happened, you know, over COVID, people don't necessarily meet
people anymore. Casting people don't necessarily meet the actors meet
actors just sent tapes in so it's a much less
personal thing. Always when it comes to it, people are
(07:53):
balls of energy, and you can't get to know someone
through just on the screen. It's connectivity. Until you meet someone,
I think you really can't know if what they're like,
you get the feel of the person and then see
how they interact with one's own energy.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So I think it's very hard.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And then of course because of the phone, it gets
more and more facist. It's more about what you look like,
and yeah, I'm really glad I don't exist in this
in this time. And also all these people making comments
about you. It's a bit like being well known, which
I've been well known and know not to look up
what people think of me who don't know me, because
(08:35):
there's always going to be cruel. And now you've got
everyone being well known through you know, Instagram, and.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
People are so bitchy. They're bitchy when they can be anonymous.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But I think something I've always very much admired about
you is that you matched the beat of your own drum.
Would there be fair to say you haven't. I feel
like you've put boundaries up around you to cope with
this industry that you're.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
In the only way you can do it, otherwise you
go completely bonkers. And does it really matter? You know,
it's I don't want to offend anyone. God help me,
you know. I don't want to offend or hurt. But
if people don't like me, what can I do? So
I'm really sorry. So you know you're not going to
please everyone.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Forty years since A Room with a View was released,
you were nineteen years old. That was the first film
where I meet you. You could say on screen, You've
played so many varied, but rich roles over the year.
Do you reflect on it often? No, not even a
gentle reminisce.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Occasionally I'll reminisce when I hear somebody's died, you know,
and then go back to then the younger self that
I was with, you know, when I was with that person,
I mean, or I meet someone.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I've met a lot of people, which is I think
the greatest gift by product of this working in this
career so long. So I've had so many fun It's
also been a lark and a laugh because you get
all this stories and then and getting to know people.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
As well as the fiction that you're playing.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
And it's been the variety has been quite extraordinary of
country place people writing parts. There's been a lot of moving,
you know things, so it's not been boring.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And it's appealed to so many people across generations. I
mentioned tonight that I was I was coming in to
talk to you, and as I said, you know, I
first saw you forty years ago, and my sixteen year
old daughter tonight was really excited I was coming to
talk to you, I was.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
She excited.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, how many it How fantastic?
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Is there is that Bellatrix or is that possibly?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, there's a lot of different It wasn't really deliberate,
but I just sort of did whatever was new. I
suppose there is a part of it go like, oh, oh,
I haven't done that before.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
So but it's quite fun.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
When people are veering towards you, you know that it's
going to be can have a photo or I really
liked you in and then when it's like unlikely, you think, oh,
that's another room that's going to be much an ivory person.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And then in fact, eighty year old woman the other
day veering toward them saying, oh God, here we go.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Loved you in fight club, my darling, and you feel
like that's the most unlikely one that I thought was
very funny.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Helena, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Love you to talk to you, lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Dan.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The biggest names from the Sunday session great chats with
Franchiska Rudgins on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks, it'd be
that was Helena Bonham Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So delightful. I don't get nervous interviewing people very often.
I'm very fortunate I get to interview a lot of
people how I admire a lot. But I was a
little nervous interviewing both Helena and and Robbie Williams. But
they both turned out to be wonderful, and they both
called me darling. There we go right next up, I
(12:15):
have a guest for you who isn't famous, although his
sister is actress Carrie Mulligan. Owen Mulligan was a teacher
by trade, and he joined the Territorial Army as an
outlet and something to do on the weekends. Little did
he know the training would lead him to Iraq, not
just as a soldier, but leading a fighting troop. Owen
kept a diary during his seven months in Iraq. He's
(12:36):
now turned those writings into a book. It's called The
Accidental Soldier. It is a wonderful book. It's terrifying, it's funny,
it's really moving. It's brilliantly written. I started our conversation
by asking why he joined the Territorial Army.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
That's a good question, that's a really good question. Why
young men do lots of things. I think testosterone had
a lot to do with it. Kind of wanderlust had
a lot to do with it. Wanting to do something
a bit different from you know, just sitting in an
office or as I was kind of working as a teacher.
I think probably you know, impressing girls may have had
something to do with it. What it definitely wasn't was
(13:14):
a kind of a deep innate calling for being in
the military, or a kind of deep sense of belief
in queen and country. So it complicated a set of reasons,
but no non very noble ones, I'm afraid.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So then, did you have any idea where this journey
might lead you?
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Kind of?
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I think by that point I was in the TA
in kind of two thousand. I joined by two thousand
and three, so I think the writing was on the
wall in terms of, you know, it was going to
be an Iraq and Afghanistan kind of focused ten years.
I never really anticipated ending up doing the job I
did in Iraq, So being a troop leader and kind
of running a troop of professional soldiers, I thought maybe
there was an edge chance that I might get deployed
(13:53):
to a headquarters somewhere or some kind of liaison job.
I certainly never expected the streets of Basra in kind
of you know, two thousand and six, when things were starting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
To spin out a bit, you end up volunteering for
a seven month tour to you're twenty three. I was
a little taken back at how little experience you really
needed to do that.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
I mean, the Army was running super hot at the time,
or the British Army was anyway. So we had We've
been in Iraq for a couple of years, we'd just
gone into Helmand kind of looking for a new adventure,
and so really it was a case of kind of
scraping the barrel.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I think nowadays or almost.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
At any point since then, it probably wouldn't have been
allowed because, as you say, I was kind of very
very inexperienced. I've done about a month at Sandhurst, a
few kind of weekend exercises, but yeah, they were they
were they were really hot, hurting for manpower at that point.
Speaker 7 (14:43):
So I think I was the best of what was left.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So really was it a month's training essentially kind of.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Formalized training at Sandhurst, Yeah, which is kind of where
we where we train our officers. I had about a
month there, and then post kind of post call up,
I had about three months in Germany with my unit
doing kind of what they call pre deployment training, which
is actually I mean it's excellent. The Army is very
method in terms of how they train you. So if
they think that you're going to get set on fire
(15:10):
in a riot in Basra, they'll set you on fire
in a car park in Germany. Getting you ready for that.
If they think you'll get beaten up, they'll beat you
up in Germany. So you know, that training was excellent
and kind of really got my head into the game.
But before that, yeah, it's been about about a month
and then a few kind of weekends here and there.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You were made through troop leader. You're going to be
leading a fighting troop. What was your reaction to that?
Speaker 6 (15:32):
I think, as I write in the book, my squadron
leader was, you know, a big grin all over his
face when he told me I was going to be
a true leader, because it's what people join the army
to do. I was very aware of my lack of experience,
and my immediate reaction was to try not to be
sick all over myself through nerves. I was very lucky
in the sense that my soldiers, as lots of soldiers
are almost all of them in fact, are really good
(15:54):
at kind of getting on board with the idea that
they will at some point have a really inexperienced officer.
Because the army is kind of like an apprenticeship. You know,
we need senior officers at some point. They need to
kind of learn what they're doing, so inevitably there are
going to be cases where where soldiers are central operations
with inexperienced officers. You kind of learn on the job.
And the guys were great at kind of getting on
(16:14):
board with that. I think, you know, if I was them,
and I've had to bite my tongue more than once
when I gave some of my more lunatic orders, but
they were unbelievable in terms of just letting me learn
the ropes as we went along, guiding me a lot
of them a lot more experienced than me, and just
really you know, making sure that I got my head
into the job as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You arrive in Bezra, what is it like hitting out
as a camp for the first time.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
So the first time you head out, you're absolutely terrified.
And the reason for that is that, you know, obviously,
all of your pre deployment training there's a limited amount
of time.
Speaker 7 (16:44):
To kind of teach you everything you need to know.
So every time you go out.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Of the gate in training, it's carnage, Like people are
getting blown up people are dying, you know, they're kind
of squirting fake blood all over you. There's you know,
vehicles on fire, all that kind of stuff. So the
first time you go out of the gate for real
in Iraq, you're kind of almost assuming that's what it's
going to be like on the streets, and it takes
makes you a few patrols to realize that you know, actually,
(17:09):
you know, you might be in your your snatch Landrover
or your armored vehicle, but around you kind of ninety
nine point nine recurring percent of people are just people
trying to live their lives, you know, go to the shops,
take their kids to school, get the car fixed.
Speaker 7 (17:24):
You know, you name it.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Just those kind of domestic hum drum things. And it's
not necessarily a kind of end to end undermissing blood bath. Now,
occasionally things do go wrong and you encounter that kind
of you know, point one percent of the population who
are who don't want you there and making that very clear.
But yeah, there's a real difference in your kind of
initial sense of trepidation and what it's actually like when
(17:46):
you go on the ground for.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The first time, the fist bombing experience that you have
the Moator Tech overnight at the camp. Can you describe
what that was like, because it is that moment where
it dawns on you that people are trying to make
a concerted effort to kill you.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yes, yes, I mean to set the scene. We were
in a kind of port cabin building about eighty of us.
We had been mortared, you know, a fair bit before,
so people had lob rockets and mortars at us, but
it had been fairly kind of ineffective and not very accurate.
This time, I think, you know, in retrospect, we were
probably being mortared by professionals. So they dropped about sixty
(18:22):
rounds over the course of ten minutes in and around
this kind of kilometer square camp. You know, one of
those rounds kind of blew the corner off a building
next to ours, and it's like being kind of trapped
on the worst kind of theme park experience ever, Like
it's pitch black every ten seconds as an absolutely enormous explosion,
which you kind of feel almost rather than here. You
(18:43):
can hear, you know, people in other buildings kind of
screaming because they've been they'd been wounded, and it's horrible,
and you know, part of I think why I found
it maybe a bit harder than perhaps some of my peers,
certainly some of my soldiers, is that I had, you know,
up to that point, and had an unbelievably sheltered life,
like I think I say in the book, like you know,
everyone has just spent twenty years telling me what a
(19:05):
precious little flower I am and how well I'm doing
at school in university and all that kind of stuff.
So when someone actually really tries very hard to kill you,
you're just not used to the idea that anyone would
kind of take against you as it were.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
You know, you think you're a reasonable person.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
You've gone on with everyone you've ever met, and here's
this personal people dropping dropping quite a lot of waters
on you. So in amongst the kind of the prime
war fear, there's a real kind of I had a
real reset of my expectations of life in the universe
that you know, no one was going to stop it
and say, actually, you're a good lad, you don't deserve this,
And they were going to try and try and push
(19:39):
it as far as they could until I was killed.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Do you ever get used to it?
Speaker 6 (19:42):
You do get I mean, I do that kind of
intensity of barrage. I think you would struggle, and I'm
sure people did in you know, World War two and
World War One, which kind of put what we did,
you know, really pales into comparison. I think you can
get used to you you build up a bit of
a shell where actually you kind of realize that, you know,
once that's happened, once you've been shot at, once you've
(20:05):
just seen you know, people rioting, that actually people do
want to hurt you, and it's not you know, necessarily
you can't be Michelle Pfeiffer in kind of dangerous minds
and just you know, talk to everyone and talk them
all around, like some people just do not want you
there and and they want to hurt you.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
So you kind of get used to that.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
I don't think you ever really get used to being
kind of properly mortared or properly rocketed.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
I think that's that's a bit much.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You talk about the fear and how you've never felt
fear like it, and I'm sure that one of those
moments that was very difficult for you, was a very
tense time, was when you accidentally drove your troops into
the minefield. I hope you don't just bringing that up.
It wasn't a good day at the office.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
It wasn't a good day at the office. It didn't
didn't make me look good to the boys or indeed
to my boss. Yeah, you know, I was taking a shortcut.
It's something the army tells you never ever to do.
Always follow the proven routes they drill into you. You
kind of wonder at the time, and why are they
really going at me about this kind of concept of
the proven route and making sure you know where you're going.
(21:08):
And then eventually, you know, a few years later, you
find yourself reversing out of a minefield very slowly with
the pressure plate on an anti tank mind game between
the wheels of your landrover, and you realize why they
were making such a big deal out of it. So, yeah,
you know, that's a kind of different fear. That is
one that's a bit more kind of icy cold as
opposed to kind of visceral. It's layered on with the
(21:29):
realization that you're the one who took the soldiers, or
you took your troop into the minefield. So if you
do hit a landmine, you know, not only have you
got some you know, not only have your soldiers been hurt,
but it's on you, which which adds an extra kind
of little free.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Song to the to the experience. But yes, you know,
it taught me a lesson.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
I never did that again, and that was the first
and last mindfield I've ever driven into.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
You paint a picture of the timing everything from last
to boredom to tira to adrenaline pumping moments. Is that
the reality?
Speaker 7 (22:01):
That's yeah, I mean, that's kind of it.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
And what's been lovely is I've had quite a lot
of feedback from people, other soldiers from different time periods,
but certainly people on that tour who have said that
they've not read books before that have kind of captured
how you go from hilarity to tragedy to you know,
sometimes hilarity again in the space of you know, a
few minutes, so you can be as you know, we
(22:25):
were at one point handing a convoy over to some Italians,
swapping kind of ration packs with them, you know, drinking
their kind of red wine that they get in their
ration packs. You know, the boys are chatting up one
of their medics, they're practicing Italian accents. It's all kind
of super convivial. You know, everyone's having a great time.
You kind of get back into your vehicle with a
smile on your face, and everyone's kind of bantering about
(22:47):
the experience. And then half an hour later, someone comes
over the radio and says, you know those Italians you
just handed to become way over to when half an
hour down the road they've been blown up and they've
had multiple casualties and one of them is now dead.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
And that's just how operations are. You know. You can
be sitting in your tent watching.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
Glee someone sticks the head in and tells you that
a helicopter's gone down in the middle of Majra City,
and you know you're probably going in that kind of
juxtaposition and going from laughing out loud to crying. You know,
sometimes it's just the nature I think of probably quite
a lot of warfare. But certainly, certainly that's all.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Because there's the experience of reading the book as well.
I mean, I was laughing out loud. You're write beautifully
and you've got a great sense of humor, and I'd
be laughing out loud, and then I feel very uncomfortable
about it, because you know, in the nixt minute you're
not laughing out loud. You understand the gravity of what
you're talking about. But I did wonder whether at times
it did feel like you were in a black comedy.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
Yeah, I mean it does.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
It feelt like you know, The Army in many senses,
is a very long running sitcom that just has some
kind of you know, gut punch moments and soldiers. You know,
my soldiers used a lot of black humor to cope
with some of the things that they kind of saw
and went.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
Through, and it really, you.
Speaker 6 (24:01):
Know, it's quite effective coping method, particularly when you're doing
it with people have shared that experience with you, and
it kind of you know, it's no substitute I think
for proper talking and therapy and you know, other kinds
of treatment when you get home if you've been exposed
to really bad stuff. But in the moment, it can
really take the edge off some fairly fairly horrible moments.
(24:22):
So I think, you know, there's a reason why people
soldiers and I'm sure members of the emergency services, you know,
other kind of folks like that, do default to joking
about things that otherwise you would cry about.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh and when you return to the UK from Bezra
how different was the general public's perception of Iraq and
what was happening there compared to your experience.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
I think people were, I mean understandably not that kind
of switched on to it. I think it was pretty
clear by that point. You know, if it had ever
been a kind of a conflict or a war in
the national interest, it certainly wasn't. Now there were no wnds,
you know, it was a little bit unclear what it
was that we were still doing there. Afghanistan had kind
(25:04):
of kicked off in earnest, so the parachute regimen were out.
They're kind of winning medals and getting into loads of firefights.
So there was a kind of element of, you know,
just being a bit forgotten, but also not being easy
to kind of get too upset about that, because actually
you kind of realize what relevance does a lot of
this have to people's lives. You kind of wish that
people knew a bit more about what soldiers are willing
to do for the country, even if not in a
(25:26):
cause that anyone.
Speaker 7 (25:27):
Can get particularly excited about.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
I found it hard to get very kind of, you know,
wound up about people not caring because I can kind
of understand why people wouldn't. I just wish maybe that,
and part of the reason for writing the book that
people were a bit clued in to what we ask
these young men and women to do to this day
and actually now and probably more worthy immediate causes, like,
(25:51):
for example, sitting in Eastern Europe acting as a kind
of forward to terran and what we asked them to
do for not very much in return.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You did another two tours to Afghanistan after Iraq. Did
you ever think that you would make a career out
of this?
Speaker 7 (26:04):
No?
Speaker 6 (26:05):
No, I was actually, and you could probably get this
from reading the book, not a very good soldier. So
it was kind of like a hobby that got wildly
out of hand and ended up sending me on three
operational tools. There's bits I loved about the army. I
loved the travel in Afghanistan. I was a linguist, so
I spent eighteen months on a long language course and
then got to use that in theater, worked with and
(26:28):
certainly met some Kiwis out there in Afghanistan, where you
guys are very present.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
But it was never going to be a career. There's
plenty of stuff.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
About the Army that you know, structure wise and kind
of it's slightly pigheaded refusals to do sensible things sometimes
that I don't get on with. So, notwithstanding the fun
I had on operations, it was never really a proper.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Job for me.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So you thought, to yourself, management consultant, I'm going to
have a nice, quiet, suburban life with my family. That's me.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
That is Yeah, there are moments and you know, a
lot of people who kind of write to me about
the book who've been on operations kind of talk about
how they'd never want to go back again ever now,
but they still miss the camaraderie, the kind of simplicity
of life. But there is a lot to be said
for being a management consultant with two children one on
the way and living in kind of North London in
(27:17):
terms of having a quiet life. I don't regret anything
I did in the military or joining the military in
the first place, but I realized I was lucky to
get away with it, and it's something that's good to
look back on. Maybe sometimes at the time was less
enjoyable to experience.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session Great
Jets with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
It'd be that was Owen Mulligan. The book is called
The Accidental Soldier and I highly recommend it. Up next,
a bit of a blast from the past. Canadian band
Cowboy Junkies have been around for forty years and they're
touring New Zealand in November to celebrate. I caught up
with lead singer Mago Timmins to talk about the band's
incredible longevity and the key to these success. The band
(28:04):
was only here a few years ago, so I started
by asking her why they were so keen to head
back to New Zealand.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
We had such a good time, the audiences were amazing,
so you know, we always wanted to get back, but
you know, in that twenty year gap, but there was
life got in the way. And then when we got
back in twenty three, it was just so overwhelming and
so much fun, and we enjoyed not only playing in
(28:32):
the audiences, but also the country. Especially in New Zealand,
it's just overwhelmingly beautiful. I think everybody's taking a holiday
either before or afterwards so they can see more of
your country.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I'm pleased to hear that the tour is a forty
year anniversary tour, which is kind of incredible. Forty years ago,
starting out in Toronto in the eighties, did you imagine
that you would still be touring the world in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 8 (28:59):
No, Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think back that it's
been forty years. I mean in those early days, you know,
when we put out Whites Off Earth Now, and I
certainly remember holding that album in my hand and being
so overwhelmed that I had an album, you know, let alone.
(29:21):
I certainly didn't think I'd still be around forty years later.
So yeah, it's pretty it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We all change as we age. How has forty years
changed the band?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Well, definitely, I hope hopefully. I believe we are much
better players. I think, you know, the way I would
describe us now as a band is that we breathe together.
You know, we all know. You know, if somebody wants
to take a song in a direction and go, oh, okay,
(29:57):
he's going there, I'm going to go with him and
be able to do it really seamlessly, and which makes
the playing so much more fun. You know, some of
these songs we've been we're playing are forty years old,
but we're still enjoy playing them because they can go
wherever we take them, and and I love that. I
(30:18):
find the playing so much more fun than it ever was.
I also think as you age, just personally, you know,
you you stop, you stop worrying about all the little
stuff like you know, what you look like, and how
many people are here, and who's in the audience or
who isn't in the audience. You just you're just playing
(30:38):
your show. And so it's just all about the music now,
not about the business, not about the look or anything else.
And that's that's that's a freedom, a real freedom.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Was that ever a huge concern to you? I always
sort of felt that the Cowboy Junkies were very was
a band that was very much themselves, that they didn't
cater to sort of what the industry expected of them
or to look at and way in things. But obviously
there was some prescire there maybe earlier on.
Speaker 8 (31:12):
Definitely there was a lot, especially with me. You know,
I I I got a lot of attention as a female.
You know, I got my picture taken a lot, and
I and they wanted me to do a lot of things.
You know, I got movie scripts and I think, you know,
(31:33):
Clara All offered me a hair commercial, you know, to
shake my head in my hair, but it wasn't me.
And of course our management and our record companies wanted
me to do that, because the more you do, the
bigger you are and the more people will hear your music.
But I never felt comfortable. My brothers never ever pushed
(31:53):
me in any way. We always just did whatever felt
normal or natural or are not embarrassing we did. And
anything that felt awkward we just we just didn't do it.
We just it wasn't us. We didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
One thing I think is quite incredible about you guys
is that over these forty years you've never broken up.
I don't believe you've taken a break. I don't know
if there are that many bands who could have gone
this long without a bit of a change in the lineup.
Speaker 8 (32:25):
Yeah, well you know years ago. You know I was
years ago. It means ten years ago, which probably means
twenty years ago. The Rolling Stone for an article of
sort of you know, bands that have had the same singer,
bands who've done this, and there was one category, which
is bands that have lasted over twenty years or something
(32:46):
that have had the same lineup and it was US,
Aerosmith and U two. So you know, it was pretty
it was pretty pretty amazing to really think about it,
that there aren't a lot of bands that haven't had
people quit or the band has stopped and and you know, restarted,
(33:10):
reunioned tours and all that, but have stayed together constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's pretty rare, it is. So what is the
key to staying together as a band.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
But for us, I think I'm not gonna say we've
never had conflict. Of course we did have, but I
think we've always kept what's the most important thing to us,
which has always been playing. And I think we've always
appreciated that what we do as Cowboy Junkies is because
(33:44):
of the four of us. It's yes, I could go
off and sing with another band, and I'm sure I
would enjoy it very much, but it wouldn't be Couble
Junkies that you know. We could change the bass player
and that would be great, and he'd be a great
place payer, but it wouldn't be what we four do.
And I think it's the four of us together. You know,
maybe we're crazy, but that's what we believe and and
(34:06):
we still we still get a lot of pleasure out
of it. Uh, you know, like I was saying, even
more so now, I think than we ever did. So
I think we when we're when we're not happy, we
talk things out and because we just we just don't
want it to end. Yet you know, it's not. It's
not over, So some stupid disagreement isn't worth worth blowing
(34:28):
us up.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
What is it being like to work so closely and
remain so close to your brothers?
Speaker 8 (34:36):
Yeah, I mean I find that the most amazing thing,
you know, because we do spend so much time together.
I mean, I'm up here at a cottage with my
brother Pete, who's the drummer. You think, you know, don't
you get enough time with each other?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
We enjoy each other's company, you know. And and again
I think there's a lot of respect for each other.
So so we you know, we're not children anymore. We're
trying to dominate each other with our or whatever, you know,
our attitude, And yeah, we we do. We enjoy each
other's company, so that's nice. And we also enjoy each
(35:16):
other's spouses company, which is even nicer. So we are
lucky that way.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Did you all grow up with sort of similar taste
in music or similar inspirations. We've seen some of the
inspirations that you've had as a band on the album
songs of the Recollections. But was music prominent in your
household growing up?
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Yes, very much. I mean we weren't a band that,
you know where like a lot of Canadian especially East
Coast Canadians, where you you know, you grow up and
everybody plays me, you know, an instrument and gets it together.
We were never that that family. But my dad loved music,
and our dad loved music, and when he came home
(35:56):
from work, the first thing you do was go to
is reel to reel and put on some music and
then he come and say hello to everybody. And I
think he really instilled in us that how music is
so important to just get through life, and it's a
thing that allows you to express yourself and to let
go of any you know, demons or whatever. So we
(36:21):
had that, and my dad also really believed that each
of us had our own tastes. So you know, he
never sort of put he might not have liked what
we were listening to, but he never sort of put
it down, you know, and so when we were young, Christmas,
especially when we were teenagers there were six kids, you
always call it a flat Christmas because under the tree,
(36:44):
our gifts to each other would all be albums, just
be you know, and basically you bought the album you
wanted and then it would be in the house. And
that way, you know, we'd be sharing out each other's
albums and you know that they all wanted would be
somewhere in the house, somebody's room. So it was it
was yes, music was very important. Was just kids and state.
(37:08):
And then you know, Mike and I were at the
punk era age, so we saw a lot of the
great punk bands in the in the seventies and and
and al al as well. We were all of the same.
You know, we'd hang out together watching driving to New
York City to see a van and turning around driving
back to get to work the next day.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
It was pretty pretty intense time.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
So we went through that era together, which I think
inspired a lot of what's in Cupboard Junkies. Not that
we're a punk band, but I think our attitude is
a punk band, and that whatever we want to do
is what we're going to do, and hopefully somebody will
like it or not.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I read that you said that you used to be
nervous on State, but it's now one of your most
comfortable places. How long did that take to change?
Speaker 8 (37:57):
A while? You know, definitely after Trinity Session A caution
horses still nervous Black Eyed Man. You know, I think
a big turn came in when we toured Black Eyed Man.
We toured with John Prime, and we were sharing the
(38:18):
bill and I got to know John very well, and
he was so Watching him on stage was just inspirational.
He just he was like he was walking into his
living room and his attitude was always to give a
good show. But they didn't like it. He didn't care,
you know, not his Problemly did his best and I
(38:40):
would go out every night and sing Angels from Montgomery
with him and he'd come on to my stage.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And I think that was huge for me.
Speaker 8 (38:48):
I think that's when I really began to realize, you know,
do my best, and whatever happens happens, and not to
worry about it so much, and to let the audience
see a little bit more of me, you know, which
you know, I'm not shy, I never was, but standing
in front of an audience didn't feel that comfortable, you know,
(39:08):
and so I began chatting. Now they can't shut them up.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Mike, you mentioned that when you come to New Zealand
you're all going to sort of try and take a
holiday here around the tour. Are you going to get
some fly fishing in while you're here.
Speaker 8 (39:22):
Well, my brother Mike's a huge fly fisherman, and I
know last time he did that, he and Jeff went
off before our tour and did a lot of fishing.
I think this time he's coming with his wife, so
I don't think there'll be much fishing.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It's nice to have a hobby that you can engage
with while you're on tour. Doesn't it just to sort
of take you out of the grind? I suppose.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
I mean I think Mike has most of that. You know,
his fishing takes them into the woods, you know, out
of the cities, which is a wonderful thing. You know,
a lot of us definitely try to go to countries
either before or after, to spend more time hanging out
and seeing more than just the cities because on to
(40:10):
where that's where you are. Yeah, I mean, I think
travel is something we all enjoy and meeting new people
and the different people, and it becomes a big part
of who you are when you're constantly doing.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
It like we are your best guest from the Sunday
session Great Jazz with Francesca rudget on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks I'd Be.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That was Margo Timmins, lead singer of Cowboy Junkies. When
you think about it, I mean, it is pretty remarkable
to still be going after forty years with the same
lineup and you've never broken up or never taken a break.
I also think it's so refreshing to hear how they
stay true to themselves and who they are. It could
be a difficult thing to do in the music industry. Hey,
(40:54):
thanks for joining me on this News Talks He'd Be podcast.
Please feel free to share these chats, and if you
like this podcast, make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget we release
a new episode of rate Chats on the last Thursday
of every month.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a b from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.