October 29, 2025 • 46 mins
In the latest episode of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, we hear from multi award winning and delightful Australian author Trent Dalton on his latest book, Gravity Let Me Go. He also celebrated his theatre production coming to Auckland.
Francesca catches up with Kiwi actress Melanie Lynskey. She's taking Hollywood by storm with a starring role in Yellowjackets but came home to star in the new Pike River film.
Plus we learn the art of writing historical novels from the iconic Ken Follett.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, em
(00:27):
powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, hosted
a Sunday Session on Newsbalks EDB and in this podcast
we picked some of our favorite feature interviews from over
the last month for you to enjoy, and we have
got some fabulous gifts for you today. Shortly, I'm joined
by Melanie Lynsky. I am such a fan. It was
so great to have her on the show. And Ken
Follett joins me to talk about his latest epic historical novel.
(00:52):
But first up Ozzie author Trent Dalton. He was in
town to promote his new book Gravity Let Me Go
and to launch the theater production of Love Stories in Auckland.
In my introduction I called him a friend of the show,
and thankfully he agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Francesca, I am a friend of the show and it's
so good to be back and thank you for having me.
It's so great to just sit in here and have
a chat with someone I really admire.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You are so busy. I mean, you're in town for
love Stories. You're releasing a book. It's kind of like
you've turned into the Dalton Empire.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, well it's kind of what my latest book's about. Actually,
it's amazing. It's funny I wrote this meta book about
a guy in crisis because he keeps focusing on his
storytelling addiction. And like, it's so funny that as I'm
as I'm talking about a book that is all about that,
that I am inside the busiest period of my life.
(01:44):
You know, the whole book of the whole story of
gravity Let Me Go. Is this journal who keeps obsessing
about the story of his lifetime and he's in danger
of missing and even bigger scoop and that's something that's
involving his wife and kids. And it's just like, well,
that's the story of my life, Francesca. Like it's like,
you know, I'm here always knowing that at home, my
(02:07):
daughter's got a literature exam that she's got to be
getting right, I've got to be helping out with Fiona,
my wife, you know, a million things at home, you
know what I mean. It's sort of like this empire
needs to just take a pause for a bit. But
it's so funny that. Yeah, it's so amazing you say that,
But you're right, I am. I'm incredibly busy.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What keeps bringing you back to your own life? For
these works of fiction?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
It's I don't know, it's sick, isn't it. Like it's like,
what's wrong with me? Like I really wish I could
write a Scottish time travel tale. I wish I could
write about romans. You know, there's so many things I
want to write about vikings and I sometimes sit down
and I started Francesco with this book. I want to
write a story about two sisters who are the daughter
(02:51):
of a hit man, and I'm really excited about that story.
I really want to write that book. But then I thought, ah,
I want to write about my marriage. I want to
write about long term relationships. And I just if something
like that speaks to me, and I get a little
voice in my head that goes, no, you need to
honor that truth. Essentially, Like I've been a journal for
(03:12):
twenty five years now, and I spent twenty of those
years going into the living rooms of just ordinary, ordinary strangers,
and they sat down with and they let me sit
in their living rooms Francesca for like four hours as
we both you know, sometimes wept over their lives and
they shared the most personal things. And sometimes I lost
(03:34):
sleep at night about how I treated those people in print,
Like I would actually really worry about how did I
leave those people better than? How better or worse than
how I found them? And sometimes I got it wrong,
particularly in my early ambitious twenties when I was trying
to make a name for myself as a journo or
whatever I was trying to do. And it really made
(03:55):
this pact that if I ever got a chance to
write stories about myself, then it's all in, you know,
like they get a lot of me, and I'm honoring
like literally a thousand people who gave who wanted me
with their stories, and so that's sort of well, I
can't help but keep coming back. And there were so
many things to say in gravity about I wanted to
write a story about a marriage in crisis, and I'm
(04:17):
not saying my marriage is in crisis, but it's come close,
to be honest, it's come close at times, and I
really wanted to kind of go there and go, I'm
so proud of my wife and either way, we've overcome
any difficulties because of all my stuff, you know, And yeah,
I wanted to put that in.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
A book that I think is going to resonate with people,
because relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Are roller coaster, well aren't they? You know, Yeah, they're
the couples. I really love talking to those ones who
have been at it for you know, twenty years, forty years,
and I meet them sixty years. You know, I just go,
hats off because you imagine the evolution that that's taken
in a relationship to go that far, you know, with
all of the difficulties of life that come in, And
(04:57):
that's true love. You know, I'm fascinated by you know,
I thought I loved my wife when I was twenty.
When I met January ten, two thousand, it's like she's
ten times more interesting than she was when I was twenty.
You know, It's like, that's that's brilliant, that's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, it's beautiful. Who's who was the first person to
read this book or read a chapter when you've completed it?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
A fee yeah, mobee Fee, and it's horrific, Like she's
she's a journo herself, Francesco. So she puts on it
things like she'll write little, I print it out at
office works and then I give her the big manuscript
and then she put on this one things like no
no no, no, no no no, or there's a scene
in it, like it's so the whole thing is this.
(05:37):
It's about this journal who gets this scoop of a
lifetime literally lands in his letterbox. It's a message from
a killer leading him on a trailer breadcrumbs to a body.
And it's almost like how far will you go? Mate,
Like for the story of a lifetime? Would you go
so far as to endangering your family? And would you
actually go so far as endangering your own life? And
(05:59):
in the meantime, he's missed this incredible thing that's happening
with his wife at home and won't sort of spoil that.
But it's so such a sort of metaphor for my life,
which is why Fee had to read it, and I
just go, look, you are in this and you're not,
but you are, you know, And so she reads it
and she goes, why do you have to go there,
and I just go, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry,
(06:20):
but it's there's power in it. You know. My favorite
writers are people who mine a little bit of themselves,
like and be a bit truthful with their fiction, you know.
And I just think that's such a powerful thing to do,
and so I have to. And this amazing wife of
mine says, yeah, it's awkward, it's awful in parts, but
go for it, you know what I mean? Like, what
a what an ultimately loving thing that she lets me do?
(06:43):
You know, it's an actual sort of act of love
that she says, go for it, because I know you
need to in your head, you know. And it's all
tied back to Boy Swallows Universe stuff. It's all one
big spirograph, Francesca, where I'm trying to explore all what's
it like being married to the kid from Boy Swallows Universe?
Basically is what gravity is about? You know, That's ultimately
what it ends up being about.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, it's like you explored your younger self in the
previous book and now we're doing we're doing it again
with the adult version.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Tell me a little bit about the subsessiveness that Noah
has with the story. As you say, we've got this
journalist who's just wondering how far he can go. Tell
me a little bit about that and where that's come from.
Were you like that as a journalist?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Oh? Completely, there was a period. I've still got it.
I've still got it. I would do anything for copy,
like I did, you know, I went on. I remember
I had no right to be in Afghanistan with Australian soldiers,
but I went and I was on a village walk
with a guy who was looking after me with a
grenade launcher. And if you need a guy looking after
you on a on a patrol, it was a patrol
(07:50):
in Afghanistan with a guy who was looking after And
I was just like, what am I doing here?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I'm not a war correspondent.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I have nothing to offer the national record on Australia
on the importance of this mission. But I did it
for copy, you know. And I remember I walked into
the basement of this really well known serial killer in Australia,
his brother who was implicated in his brother's crimes. I
remember distinctly going down into that guy's basement right with him.
(08:18):
He said, I want to show you something in my basement.
And we walked down the back of this guy's staircase.
We crept under, we got into this basement, Francesca, and
he goes go further, further, deeper, deeper, and he took
me to the end of this basement. I remember just
going this is dangerous, Like this guy hasn't been where.
We don't know whether this guy did or didn't do
(08:39):
these crimes he's been accused of. And I'm going down
there for copy because I knew on Saturday it's going
to make a great read on the Saturday weekend magazine,
you know. And it's like, and I was a new
dad at that point. I was just like, how far
would you go? You know? And it's like, that's that's
a journal thing, and it's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay, do you think it's about assisting risk and you're
just not very good at assisting risks? Yes?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, putting storytelling over that's something journals do all the time.
You see it, you see it. I remember I was
with I wanted to get I wanted to jag an
interview with this head of an outlaw motorcycle gang in Australia.
It was really impossible to get This guy just was
about to get out of prison, and his lawyer took
me out on a boat on the Brisbane River and
(09:24):
I remember I was on this sort of speedboat with
the lawyer and us like a sergeant at arms from
this famous outlaw motorcycle gang. I remember going, what am
I doing out on the water with these known criminals
just in order to possibly show that I'm going to
be trustworthy enough to be granted this interview, you know
what I mean? And You're just going, are they you know,
they could tie some rocks to my legs and just
(09:45):
throw me down in the river, but you're there for
copy And it's like, yeah, I just think it's a journo.
It's a it's a blank spot. It's a dark spot
in a journo's life. They can't see risk because they're
so blinded by the power of that story and the scoop.
Were so driven by the scoop sometimes and I had that,
I had that, and now I've got different scoops that
I'm chasing. It's the scoop of ideas really, you know,
(10:07):
like I get hooked on an idea and I'll be
standing in the kitchen Francesca and Fees talking to me
and she knows. She goes, ah, damn it, you're doing
it again. You're thinking about the story. And she's like,
book week, book week. Remember we've got to get the
book week costume, you know, And it's like, don't forget that.
Book week costumes are actually why you're here. You're not
here to dazzle readers. You're here to be a dad
(10:28):
and you're here to be your husband, remember that, mate,
you know. So that's that's what Gravity's about.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Do you see that? Are you worried about your your
children and they are ability to assist risk? Can you
sing it in them?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah? It's like, please don't. My youngest daughter's got the bug.
So you know, my favorite character in Gravity is this
is this guy, Noah Cooks, who's the lead sort of
journal sort of hero of the story or anti hero.
But he's got this incredible daughter who wants to be
a journal too. And that's just my youngest daughter. I
see it in her. Francesca worryingly, she's got the story bug.
(11:03):
But this kid claming in Gravity, she does journal for
all the right reasons. She wants to talk about the light.
She wants to go interview the strangers in her street
and remind them why they're amazing. And it's like, that's
why actually I did get into journalism. That's my favorite
type of journalism.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And we should touch on that too, because I think
that this is something which we see in all your books.
You have this beautiful balance of light and dark.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh yeah, you know there's.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That hopefulness, that joy. It's always there. Just just when
you think you're going down a bit of a dark hole,
there's just whether it's a moment of humor or a
reflection or something, there's just that there's that lightness there
as well, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ah, that's from my life. That's you know, the Dalton
Boys are on a train to go visit our mum
in Boggo Road Women's Prison, you know, and we're telling
jokes to each other, you know, because we all know
how sad it's going to be, you know, like it's
it's I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That absolutely comes from my childhood, you know, And I
so admire New Zealand kids, Aussie kids who face the
worst traumas and they're living in the cracks and those little,
little little beams of light are coming down through humor
and love, you know, and they're the beams that they
cling to. And I just think that's so powerful. You can, really,
(12:17):
you can really make that light bright if you show
people how dark things can get. Yeah, but you've got
to go down into the darkness to let that stuff
shine so.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Bright in town because of course Love Stories is on
our stage at the moment, a very special book which
has come to life. And this theater piece. How exciting
is that being.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Civic theater in Auckland might be the greatest I know
it is. It's not even my I mean, I've been
in London theaters and that matches anything I've seen in
the world. It's the most beautiful, isn't it gorgeous? Like
I just am so honored that this story had this
idea to take a typewriter to a corner and ask
two hundred people to tell me about love. They turned
it into a play and now that thing's playing in
(12:58):
the civic theater. It's like, are you kidding? It's amazing,
It's the great I wanted to honor my best mate's
mum who handed me this typewriter. It was her best friend.
This nineteen seventy sky blew Oli Eddie typewriter. She said,
do something with it. I wrote a book, went out
to a street, asked people all these stories, and now
it makes its way to Auckland somehow. It's just incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think it's going to go a little bit further
than that. I think the empire is going to keep sprinting,
isn't it. It's just going to keep going. I mean,
love stories are so important, right Everyone's you know, life's
a bit tough at the moment. Everyone's finding things a
little bit hard. And at the end of the day,
if you've got some love in your life, you know,
you can see that Glamark, can't you. You can see
the life.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's the whole message of the story. There's you know,
the whole play eventually ends up being a revelation of
why I was on the corner anyway. It's the same
stuff I'm exploring, and gravity is that there were things
I actually needed to fix in my marriage that all
these wonderful strangers reminded me of. And the greatest thing
you'll ever take from that play, if you go see it,
is to drive home and go, Yeah, I am so lucky.
(13:56):
I've got five people in my life who love me.
You know, I'm so lucky. I've got one person in
my life still, you know what I mean? And to
remember also the people who don't have love. You know
that there are a lot of people in this city, Auckland,
I know, you know who have fallen through the cracks.
And you ask anyone the toughest thing to do in
life to live to live without his love forget. Yeah, yep,
(14:17):
food's tough and sheltz is tough, but love's still the
one that makes life really rough if you don't have it,
you know. So that play sort of speaks to that
as well.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Trent, thank you so much for your vulnerability, for your
brilliant writing, and for just putting out so much goodness
and gorgeousness into the world. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Right back at you.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That was Trent Dalton, And if you've had a chance
to pick up the book, you will recognize what he
was saying here. He was on a book tour. His
book pretty much kicks off with his main character hitting
out on a book tour. Hopefully it goes a little
bit better for Trent than it does for Noah, but
the similarities between his life and fiction are very hard
to miss.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Frandjiska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It'd be up next.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
A Kui actress who has not only made a name
for herself is being able to take on any character
with conviction, but an actress who has determined to do
things her own way. Melanie Linsky stars and some of
the biggest shows on the tally at the moment, and
recently returned home to start in Pike River, and we
began the conversation about how she got involved with the film.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
I'm trying to remember. It was so long ago now.
I think I got an email from Rob Sakis, the director,
and I knew him years ago, and it had been
sometime since we've been in touch, so I was wondering
what it was about, and he, you know, said he
(15:45):
had this project. I got sent the script and I
just thought the script was so moving and beautiful. I
obviously knew of the Pike River tragedy, but the script
really really really enlightened me as to so much more.
And then just reading about the relationship between and Sonya,
(16:07):
I just thought it was a very different and interesting
way to tell the story and the fact that these
two women helped each other through the worst time of
their lives, and I just I was sold. I thought
the script was beautiful. I was excited to work with
rob but then I was just like, oh, gosh, well,
so are they going to get And then when they
(16:28):
started to talk about Robin Milcolm, I just heaven like
dreams coming true. I've wanted to work with her for
so long, and she was even more wonderful than I anticipated,
and my hopes were very, very high. So it was
just it was pretty great.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Ah, you are a dream team together. It is a
masterclass in acting. It's kind of a bit of sweet
this film, because there is this horrific tragedy and a
lack of justice, and yet on the other side, you
do have this beautiful friendship that comes out of it
and a relentless fight for.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
What is right.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I wonder are there many scripts around like this?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
No, I mean, I don't know that I've ever read
a script that focuses so much on a female friendship.
Of course, now I'm thinking of Heavenly Creatures, but that's
kind of a different, different version of that, but it's
really I think every woman would say, like, our female
(17:29):
friends are the things that get us through. Like the
women that I have in my life are everything to me.
I've had friendships for since I was seven years old
that I still have. And to see a story that
focused so much on that, and then also, you know,
like you're saying, on their fight for justice and the
(17:52):
men that they lost, but the fact that their friendship
was so important to them and really did help get
them through this most awful time, it was such a
beautiful thing to see in life and to read in script.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yes, of course, because the families were on set and
heavily involved in the making of this film, what did
that bring to the film and the cast?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
It was funny. I mean when I first met Anna,
I understood quite quickly that she had not seen me
in much like I think she maybe had only seen
Two and a half Men, and so I think she
couldn't quite imagine. She just kept saying, Oh, but you're
so sweet, and you're so funny, and do you think
you can be angry? And do you think you can?
(18:38):
Have you done a lot of drama like she was
just you know, it's her life story. It's very, very,
very important, and I wanted to reassure her and say, yes,
I've done drama. You know I've done recently, I've been doing.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
A lot of drama, so you should see what I
can do.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Coen taking bites out of Hillary Swing's arm on television.
Don't worry, but I think you know I'm seft spoken
and I'm shy, and you've seen me play this like
wacky character in a comedy. And also it's very nerve wracking.
Someone's written the story of the worst thing that's ever
happened to you and then they cast somebody. And the faith,
(19:20):
even though she did have doubts, the faith that she
had in me was really beautiful and it meant a
lot to me. And all I wanted was to do
her justice. It was single minded at a certain point,
me wanting to make her happier, make her feel okay.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I'm sure there was. You sort of felt quite a
lot of responsibility. I imagine taking on a story like this,
I'm sure that would have waited on you.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Oh, a huge responsibility. It's massive. You know, I've played
real people before, and there is a certain amount of
separation that you have to do. You have to let
the person you're playing be somewhat of a character so
that you can embody it. You can't be doing an
impersonation of somebody, but to be doing this and at
(20:06):
the same time have the person you're playing on set,
it felt like a huge responsibility. There are some days
where we were filming very very emotional stuff and they
would say cut and I would see Anna off camera
visibly emotional, and you just never lose the gravity of
what you're doing. You never lose the sense of the
(20:26):
magnitude of the story that you're telling when you're reminded.
And also on the set, there were a lot of
people who have been involved in the tragedy who were
helping as crew members, who were background actors.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
And it was a.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Really unusual and quite profound experience.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You mentioned before you know reading this, You know, we
all know the story, and we all lived the explosion
and what came afterwards. But I think you touched on
something which really struck me when I watched the film.
As well as while we might know those milestones, we
don't quite realize that long lasting impact that this tragedy
(21:07):
had on those families. You know, the day to day
dealing with the grief and the struggle and the search
for justice and things. And that is something which I
agree with you. Really it really comes through in the film.
I think that's really important for getting an understanding of
what happened.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Yeah, and I think it's a very important thing to
anyone who's lost somebody as part of a bigger tragedy,
anyone who's had a loved one be a victim of
something that becomes a national tragedy. I do think that
the person that you loved, it was the most important
person in your entire world, becomes kind of faithless because
(21:46):
it's like one of twenty nine men who were lost
that day. And it was so important to Sonya and
to Anna and to the rest of the families to
have their loved ones remembered as individuals, as the most
important people in their lives, as people who will never
be replaced with they loved more than anybody. And I,
(22:07):
you know, Robin and I really wanted to make sure
that that came across from the film.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But also very brave that Anna let you be honest
about what happened. You know, she became very consumed by
seeking justice and grieving for her husband, and her relationships
with her other children began to fall apart. Yeah, I
think it's I think that's very brave of her to
kind of for us to really see that impact.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
It's incredibly brave, and she's very, very, very honest about it,
and she has a great relationship with her kids and
with her beautiful little granddaughter. But I think it's incredible
to want to tell the true story of what happened
and how it impacted you, And I think it's more
helpful for people to see the reality of what something
(22:56):
like this takes from someone. It's not just taking her husband,
who loved one away, but it took so much from
her and so much of her time as well.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Alanie, I know that you didn't haven't worked with Robin
Malcolm before. Course she plays Sonya rock House. I hear
that you two ended up as besties and got matching tattoos.
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It is true? It is true. I mean we haven't
seen each other since film, we don't live in the
same place, we haven't been near each other, but I
just treasure her. I've never gotten a matching tattoo with anybody,
including people I've been married to, so that was pretty unusual.
But yeah, we got matching tattoos. They're licorice all sorts,
(23:40):
and so I think of her every day when I
see my ankle, and I just love her. I mean,
she's such an incredible actress, and I just it's been
my dream to work with her, and the fact that
I got to on this movie just means so much
to me.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I feel like there's a great similarity between the two
of you as actresses in terms of the roles that
you take on and the way you two also resist
conforming to an industry that is for of pressure.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Oh thank you. I mean that's something that I absolutely
love and admire about Robin. She's insistent that there are
still stories to be told about women who are not
you know, twenty five thirty years old. And what she
did with after the party, you know, she created that
for herself, and that's one of the most impactful, beautiful
(24:32):
things I've seen in recent years. I just she was
so incredible. She's incredible on everything.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Fact that she's, you know, like me, aging pretty naturally,
trying to look like a regular human being. There is
a lot of pressure. You know, it's shocking how you
kind of look around, you're like, Oh my gosh, is
it just me that's not doing all the botox and everything?
I guess I guess so. And no disrespect to people
(25:01):
who are making that choice, you know, I think whatever
makes you happy. But there's also kind of an inherent
privilege in getting that kind of work done. It costs money,
you know, and there are so many women in the
world who kin'dt afford to do that, don't want to
have to waste their mental and emotional energy on that
(25:23):
kind of thing. And I do feel a responsibility to
continue looking like someone who might be sitting at home
watching the television.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I just I don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
We'll see five years from now you might be doing
an interview with me, and and that.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Looks like this different Melanie. Yes, I don't think so. Hey,
would you be interested in doing something similar to like
what Robin has done creating projects? Or are you just
so busy at the moment there's kind of no time
for you to do that.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
I'm starting to get into that a little bit more.
I'm not a writer, but you know, starting to work
with writers. I have a very very dear friend from
you Plymouth, who wrote a beautiful book called Before You
Knew My Name, which did really well. It's an incredible
book and we are developing that into a TV series,
so I'm very excited about that. And then just yeah,
(26:18):
trying to get into producing a little bit when it's
something I really can put my heart behind, and that
book is one of them.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
How good was it to come home to New Zealand
to be able to film? What was it like for you.
I've heard you say that you can kind of go
underneath the radar a little bit when you're in the US,
but I'm sure it was a little bit different when
you were back here.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
I don't know. I think I I think I can
kind of go under the radar anywhere. I think there's
like I don't know, like my husband will walk through
an airport with his head out, but he's just making
eye contact with everybody and grinning and people are like, oh,
there's Jason Ritta. I feel like I'm quite good at
moving in an undetectable way, which I'm like, you know,
(27:05):
it's I'm very very I'm not great with small talk,
so it's nice to just kind of go on about
my day. But anyone who did recognize me was incredibly nice.
If it's wonderful to go home. I wish I could
do it work at home more often. It's logistically it's difficult,
(27:27):
especially because I'm on to show that it was coming
back for multiple seasons, so trying to fit something into
the period of time where I'm not filming is always tricky.
But I'm grateful that I got to for this one.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But how wonderful is it that you still get to
work with amazing New Zealand actresses like Simone Kessel and
Yellowjackets and things.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Yes, Oh, I mean that was such a I mean
I suggested her for the part, so I'm happy that
they listened to me.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We spoke to her and she did give you credit
for that.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
Yes, yeah, I mean that's a vision and I was right,
and she was so wonderful on the show, and I
just love her, just love her so much. She's really fun.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Very exciting that you're able to make it back for
the premieres in Auckland and on the West Coast. Are
you looking forward to those? I think they're going to
be very emotional evenings.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of looking forward to it.
But I also I agree with you. I think it's
going to be very emotional, so I think it's going
to be a mix of things. I'm trying to prepare
myself and then also be open to whatever happens. But
I'm so glad I can come back.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
No, it's very exciting. Anything else on the horizons that
we should know about.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I'm going back to Yellow Jackets soon in a couple
of months, I think. And I just finished filming a
movie called Don't Say Good Luck with a young actress
called Sonny Sandler, who was really wonderful. And yeah, I'm
(29:05):
trying to take break. I'm trying to be with I
have a six year old and she's so precious, and
it's happening so quickly, so I've been trying to take
as many breaks as i can.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
That was Melanie Lynsky. So enjoyed our chat. Isn't she lovely?
I thought she was wonderfully grounded and humble and gracious
and articulate, a very cool woman. If you haven't already
seen Pike River, it's a.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Must bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio empowered by News
Talks at b.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
To finish up. Today, Pillars of the Earth author Ken
Follett joins me to talk about researching and writing historical novels.
His latest book is called Circle of Days and it's
set in twenty five hundred BC, and I started off
by asking him how much research goes into his epic novels.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Well, I normally spend about a year preparing to write
the book, well between six months and the year, and
that would be a common nation of figuring out the
plot and doing the research. So they happened together. What
happens is that I think of something that could happen
in the story, and then I think, well, could that
(30:20):
really happen or not? I need to I need to
find out whether this is possible. And also so then
I read a book about it or something, or search
the internet, and that gives me ideas for other dramatic
scenes in the story.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
So the two things work together.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You've written books which of course been set in the
tenth and eleventh centuries, twelve, fourteenth, sixte and twentieth century.
A certain amount of reference material is available your new book,
your latest book, Circle of Days. The story begins around
the year twenty five hundred BC on presuming there isn't
as much reference material available or were you surprised at
(31:01):
what you could discover.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
No, No, you're absolutely right about that. There's very little
is known about the Stone Age, and that's partly, of course,
because they left no records. They didn't have writing, and
reading had not been invented in Western Europe at the time,
although it existed in it was beginning to be invented
in the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But so they didn't.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Leave anything written, they didn't do many cave paintings, and
so all we've really got is what the archaeologists dig
up out of the ground. And so but my policy
is is I find out what's known by you know,
what the historians feel confident about, and then what isn't known.
(31:46):
I think I'm entitled to make up something plausible. It
has to be plausible, it has to relate to.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
The known facts.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
But I'm allowed to imagine how things might have been.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Is this what a track did you? What a track
did you to this particular era in the story of
Stone Hinge.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Well, I saw a book, in fact, sought the title
of a book, and the book was called how to
Build Stonehenge. And I just before I even bought the book.
I just thought that sounds like a Can Follick story
how to build Stonehenge, And and I've read the book
and I began to think about it. It's a story
(32:26):
in which ordinary human beings do something extraordinary. And that's
really the kind of story that I like, where where
we rise above our circumstances. And and you know, it
became more and more interesting as I went on.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
What you were so good at is sitting creating these
these worlds, taking us into this world, but you also
make the characters relevant to us. What is the secret
to taking historical figures but making them relevant to the
modern day. I'm presuming that's something you intend to do.
Speaker 6 (33:04):
Well, absolutely, And I think the secret is that there
are certain things that worry human beings.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
That go very.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Deep and are probably the same at any period of history.
For example, we worry about love and marriage and sex
and the children. I think everybody does that in every age.
We worry about violence, crime and war.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
And if the story is in these areas, then.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Whatever period you're in, these things will be on people's minds.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I'm fascinated by how you take such an enormous period
of history and turn it into one novel. I mean,
these are quite complex stories. What's the art to.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That, Well, the story really has to come out of
the research. Is that you can't take a modern love
story and plant it in Tudor times, for example, or
in the Middle Ages. That the way it has to
work is the story idea has to come out of
the circumstances of that historical period. And then, of course
(34:18):
the characters that you invent can have all the concerns
and all the hopes and fears of every historical period,
but they're linked directly linked to something specific to the
Middle Ages or the sixteenth century or the Victorian era.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
We were just talking there, we were talking before about, you know,
making these characters so relevant. I imagine them that you
would look back through history and see a lot of
parallels with modern times.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Well, I think so, although you know what I look
for In every period of history, there are people who rebel.
They say, I'm not going to be the person that I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Told to be.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
You know, the women all through history who have said
I don't want to be married and have children. I
want to be a scientist, or I want to be
a painter or something like that. And of course, they're
the most interesting people who write about so although occasionally
I'm accused of making the story modern, the truth of
(35:29):
the matter is that not everybody is typical of the
era that they live in, and the people who who
go against the tide are the most interesting people.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
What did you learn about stone Hinge that fascinated you?
Maybe you didn't know.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Well, something that I really didn't know about was the
importance of flint. It's the Stone Age, so they have
no metal tools, so they have no knives. The only
cutting tool they have is a flint and used this,
you know, whatever they did chop down trees. For example,
(36:10):
they had a little hand axe and you can't can't.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
We can't show this on the radio, can be. But
I can show it to you now.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
So it's it's smaller than my hand and I've got
little hands, and that's the kind of thing they would
use to chop down an oak tree.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
So it must have taken them a long time, but
it was all they had.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
And the other thing about it is that the best
flint is found quite deep underground, so they mined it. Now,
we don't think of the Stone Age as being sophisticated
enough to have mines. But in this country, in England,
there are the remains of many flint mines, and I
was able to go down one quite deep. I had
(36:53):
to wear, you know, the apparight, a wire that connected
me to the surface in case I stumbled on the
ladder so that I wouldn't fall to my death. And
then when I got to the to the base of
the shaft, I saw that there were tunnels going radially
out from the base of the shaft in all directions.
(37:15):
In other words, just like a modern day coal mine,
which I've also been dow coal mines for research. But
I had to crawl on my hands and knees. This
was one of the more difficult bits of research that
I did, crawling around, cowering around twenty meters underground on
my hands and knees. I had knee patches and elbow
patches and gloves and a helmet, investigating, trying to imagine
(37:40):
what it was like for the Stone Age people who
were looking for these but very valuable flints. And then
the importance of that is, of course they were miners.
You can't eat flints. They had to trade the flints
for what they needed, food and clothing, and so on,
and that proved to us that there was trading in
(38:01):
the Stone Age, which we might not have been sure
of otherwise. And so that was the only industry they had,
really mining flints and sharpening them. That's called napping. You
have to hit the flint with a stone in such
a way that a flake comes off and leaves a
sharp edge. Quite a skill. And so that whole industry exists.
(38:27):
That I had no idea that that whole industry existed.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Fascinating the places. I'm sure you've been to some very
very interesting places. With all the historical novels that you
have written and the research that you've done. Can you
start it out as a journalist, then you became a
thriller writer before turning to these big epic historical novels,
And of course I think everybody has read Pillars of
the Earth. What made you turn to historical fiction.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Well, it was the cathedrals themselves. One I was writing thrillers.
I wrote thrillers because I like thrillers. I still do
like thrillers. In fact, I was so deep into one
that I was a bit late for this talk with
you this evening.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I had to be phoned.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You were told no, you were on time, no complaints anyway.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
So I was I was just interested in the cathedrals,
and I was, I mean, they're very beautiful that they've
been there for hundreds and hundreds of years, but I
was interested in the people who built them and how
they built them. And you'll obviously this curiosity of mine
obviously applies in a similar way to Stonehenge, although the
(39:38):
circumstances are completely different and the story is completely different.
But I I I thought that there was a great
popular novel to be written about building a cathedral. And
a lot of people didn't agree with me, and some
of my publishers were very nervous about it. I think
(40:02):
they thought I was going to, well, I might write
a difficult book, you know, a book that's really only
for intellectuals, or something like that. And really I was
convinced that there could be a great popular novel about this.
One of my publishers actually took my wife Barbara aside
and said, you've got to stop Ken writing this book.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
It's going to ruin his career.
Speaker 6 (40:23):
And so it was perhaps the only time in my
life when I've been writing. Everybody else has been wrong anyway,
that doesn't happen to me anywhere near as often as
I'd like so anyway, so I was convinced that that
would be it would be a terrific book, and I
went ahead with it. And then, of course I really
(40:43):
had to make sure that it was you know, readable
and enjoyable and paid a page turner, because if I
if I'd eased up on that that impulse.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Then the publishers would have been proved right.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
Anyway, So, as you obviously know, it turned out very well,
and a lot of people have really enjoyed that book.
I'm very glad I wrote it.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It's a bit of an odd question, but we we
live in quite interesting times. Do you ever wish that
you could go into the future and write about what's
happening today? Is historical not is historical fiction?
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (41:17):
That would be interesting, wouldn't it, Because of course in
the future you'd know how all the crises that we're
living through that we know, you'd know how they ended.
I'm often asked if I'd like to go into the past,
and I would like to talk to Shakespeare. I think
if I, if if I had a time machine, that
(41:38):
would be my first trip, because I'd like to ask
him about the good things and the and the bad
things in his book. I'd like to I'd like to,
you know, read, I mean, his most famous speech, to
be or not to be? That is the question whether
it's nobler in the mind to suffer the string spring,
(42:00):
the strip, the strings and arrows of slings and arrows
ab outrageous fortune, or to take arms against the sea
of troubles. And wait a minute, Will you can't take
arms against a sea?
Speaker 4 (42:13):
That's a crap line? Will did you? Were you in
a hurry?
Speaker 6 (42:18):
Or is there some deep meaning there that I haven't noticed.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
I'd love to ask him that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
I think he's probably very grateful. We haven't devised a
time machine just yet. One other thing I wanted to
quickly ask you about, Ken is that you've been involved
in a lot of charities over the years, and you
were president of the Dyslexia Action for ten years, as
well as many others. What drove you to get involved
in an organization like that?
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Well, you know, given the life I've lived, it seems
to me such a tragedy when people can't read, or
can't read without difficulty. It's given me such joy.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
You know, I was obviously not dyslexic.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
I could read when I was four years old, and
I've loved reading ever since, starting with you know, Noddy
goes to toy Town and all the way through James Bond,
and it's given me such joy. And I feel it's
such a shame if people can't read, and if there's
a way to help them, we should and I did.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
I was some of the I'm not just some of
the people.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
In my family are dyslexic, and I'm dyslexic, and I've
seen them struggle with it. And there was a time
when schools just didn't even believe in dyslexia. And you
still come across schools where they say there's no such
thing as dyslexia.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
But I think it's great.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
If those people get special help. I also organized the
National Year of Reading in ninety eight to ninety nine,
and the object of that campaign was to was to
persuade people to read for pleasure, because that's the way
you develop your literacy abilities when you're just doing it
(44:00):
for fun, doing it because you enjoy it, and so
and the more the more that young person reads for pleasure,
the better literacy skills that person will have all through
their life, so it always seemed to me.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
These were very worthwhile.
Speaker 6 (44:17):
I know there are one hundred made, probably a thousand
charities that are worth supporting, but that was the one
that seemed closest to my heart.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Do you ever stop end reflect on your career? Thirty
eight box, one hundred and ninety eight million copies sold.
I mean, it's pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
Well, when I do, I can hardly believe it. I mean,
it's really two hundred million books. I mean, how did
that happen? I mean, I you know, I was always ambitious.
I wanted a lot of people to read my books,
but that just you can't imagine two hundred million books,
can you. I mean, I don't know how many times
(44:54):
they go around the world, end on end. So I'm
sort of I'm sort of gobsmacked when I think about it.
I don't think about it very much, but when I
do think about it and somebody says, how many books
have you sold in total? And I say, which, it's
one hundred and ninety eight million at the moment and
still rising, And then I think, wow, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
It's a lot of joy of reading, isn't it? A
lot of joy? Yes, I hope that was the lovely
ken followed. I learned a lot from that interview, but
most importantly, I was reminded that sometimes one must go
with their gut instinct or do what they want, even
if everyone else thinks you're mad and you're going to
ruin your career.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca Rudgin on iHeartRadio powered by news Talks It'd Be.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Thank you for joining me on this News Talk's He'd
Be podcast. Please feel free to share these chats, and
if you liked this podcast, make sure you follow us
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget
we released a new episode of Great Chats on the
last Thursday of every month.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks it'd Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, em
(00:27):
powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, hosted
a Sunday Session on Newsbalks EDB and in this podcast
we picked some of our favorite feature interviews from over
the last month for you to enjoy, and we have
got some fabulous gifts for you today. Shortly, I'm joined
by Melanie Lynsky. I am such a fan. It was
so great to have her on the show. And Ken
Follett joins me to talk about his latest epic historical novel.
(00:52):
But first up Ozzie author Trent Dalton. He was in
town to promote his new book Gravity Let Me Go
and to launch the theater production of Love Stories in Auckland.
In my introduction I called him a friend of the show,
and thankfully he agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Francesca, I am a friend of the show and it's
so good to be back and thank you for having me.
It's so great to just sit in here and have
a chat with someone I really admire.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You are so busy. I mean, you're in town for
love Stories. You're releasing a book. It's kind of like
you've turned into the Dalton Empire.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, well it's kind of what my latest book's about. Actually,
it's amazing. It's funny I wrote this meta book about
a guy in crisis because he keeps focusing on his
storytelling addiction. And like, it's so funny that as I'm
as I'm talking about a book that is all about that,
that I am inside the busiest period of my life.
(01:44):
You know, the whole book of the whole story of
gravity Let Me Go. Is this journal who keeps obsessing
about the story of his lifetime and he's in danger
of missing and even bigger scoop and that's something that's
involving his wife and kids. And it's just like, well,
that's the story of my life, Francesca. Like it's like,
you know, I'm here always knowing that at home, my
(02:07):
daughter's got a literature exam that she's got to be
getting right, I've got to be helping out with Fiona,
my wife, you know, a million things at home, you
know what I mean. It's sort of like this empire
needs to just take a pause for a bit. But
it's so funny that. Yeah, it's so amazing you say that,
But you're right, I am. I'm incredibly busy.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What keeps bringing you back to your own life? For
these works of fiction?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
It's I don't know, it's sick, isn't it. Like it's like,
what's wrong with me? Like I really wish I could
write a Scottish time travel tale. I wish I could
write about romans. You know, there's so many things I
want to write about vikings and I sometimes sit down
and I started Francesco with this book. I want to
write a story about two sisters who are the daughter
(02:51):
of a hit man, and I'm really excited about that story.
I really want to write that book. But then I thought, ah,
I want to write about my marriage. I want to
write about long term relationships. And I just if something
like that speaks to me, and I get a little
voice in my head that goes, no, you need to
honor that truth. Essentially, Like I've been a journal for
(03:12):
twenty five years now, and I spent twenty of those
years going into the living rooms of just ordinary, ordinary strangers,
and they sat down with and they let me sit
in their living rooms Francesca for like four hours as
we both you know, sometimes wept over their lives and
they shared the most personal things. And sometimes I lost
(03:34):
sleep at night about how I treated those people in print,
Like I would actually really worry about how did I
leave those people better than? How better or worse than
how I found them? And sometimes I got it wrong,
particularly in my early ambitious twenties when I was trying
to make a name for myself as a journo or
whatever I was trying to do. And it really made
(03:55):
this pact that if I ever got a chance to
write stories about myself, then it's all in, you know,
like they get a lot of me, and I'm honoring
like literally a thousand people who gave who wanted me
with their stories, and so that's sort of well, I
can't help but keep coming back. And there were so
many things to say in gravity about I wanted to
write a story about a marriage in crisis, and I'm
(04:17):
not saying my marriage is in crisis, but it's come close,
to be honest, it's come close at times, and I
really wanted to kind of go there and go, I'm
so proud of my wife and either way, we've overcome
any difficulties because of all my stuff, you know, And yeah,
I wanted to put that in.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
A book that I think is going to resonate with people,
because relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Are roller coaster, well aren't they? You know, Yeah, they're
the couples. I really love talking to those ones who
have been at it for you know, twenty years, forty years,
and I meet them sixty years. You know, I just go,
hats off because you imagine the evolution that that's taken
in a relationship to go that far, you know, with
all of the difficulties of life that come in, And
(04:57):
that's true love. You know, I'm fascinated by you know,
I thought I loved my wife when I was twenty.
When I met January ten, two thousand, it's like she's
ten times more interesting than she was when I was twenty.
You know, It's like, that's that's brilliant, that's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, it's beautiful. Who's who was the first person to
read this book or read a chapter when you've completed it?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
A fee yeah, mobee Fee, and it's horrific, Like she's
she's a journo herself, Francesco. So she puts on it
things like she'll write little, I print it out at
office works and then I give her the big manuscript
and then she put on this one things like no
no no, no, no no no, or there's a scene
in it, like it's so the whole thing is this.
(05:37):
It's about this journal who gets this scoop of a
lifetime literally lands in his letterbox. It's a message from
a killer leading him on a trailer breadcrumbs to a body.
And it's almost like how far will you go? Mate,
Like for the story of a lifetime? Would you go
so far as to endangering your family? And would you
actually go so far as endangering your own life? And
(05:59):
in the meantime, he's missed this incredible thing that's happening
with his wife at home and won't sort of spoil that.
But it's so such a sort of metaphor for my life,
which is why Fee had to read it, and I
just go, look, you are in this and you're not,
but you are, you know, And so she reads it
and she goes, why do you have to go there,
and I just go, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry,
(06:20):
but it's there's power in it. You know. My favorite
writers are people who mine a little bit of themselves,
like and be a bit truthful with their fiction, you know.
And I just think that's such a powerful thing to do,
and so I have to. And this amazing wife of
mine says, yeah, it's awkward, it's awful in parts, but
go for it, you know what I mean? Like, what
a what an ultimately loving thing that she lets me do?
(06:43):
You know, it's an actual sort of act of love
that she says, go for it, because I know you
need to in your head, you know. And it's all
tied back to Boy Swallows Universe stuff. It's all one
big spirograph, Francesca, where I'm trying to explore all what's
it like being married to the kid from Boy Swallows Universe?
Basically is what gravity is about? You know, That's ultimately
what it ends up being about.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, it's like you explored your younger self in the
previous book and now we're doing we're doing it again
with the adult version.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Tell me a little bit about the subsessiveness that Noah
has with the story. As you say, we've got this
journalist who's just wondering how far he can go. Tell
me a little bit about that and where that's come from.
Were you like that as a journalist?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Oh? Completely, there was a period. I've still got it.
I've still got it. I would do anything for copy,
like I did, you know, I went on. I remember
I had no right to be in Afghanistan with Australian soldiers,
but I went and I was on a village walk
with a guy who was looking after me with a
grenade launcher. And if you need a guy looking after
you on a on a patrol, it was a patrol
(07:50):
in Afghanistan with a guy who was looking after And
I was just like, what am I doing here?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I'm not a war correspondent.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I have nothing to offer the national record on Australia
on the importance of this mission. But I did it
for copy, you know. And I remember I walked into
the basement of this really well known serial killer in Australia,
his brother who was implicated in his brother's crimes. I
remember distinctly going down into that guy's basement right with him.
(08:18):
He said, I want to show you something in my basement.
And we walked down the back of this guy's staircase.
We crept under, we got into this basement, Francesca, and
he goes go further, further, deeper, deeper, and he took
me to the end of this basement. I remember just
going this is dangerous, Like this guy hasn't been where.
We don't know whether this guy did or didn't do
(08:39):
these crimes he's been accused of. And I'm going down
there for copy because I knew on Saturday it's going
to make a great read on the Saturday weekend magazine,
you know. And it's like, and I was a new
dad at that point. I was just like, how far
would you go? You know? And it's like, that's that's
a journal thing, and it's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay, do you think it's about assisting risk and you're
just not very good at assisting risks? Yes?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, putting storytelling over that's something journals do all the time.
You see it, you see it. I remember I was
with I wanted to get I wanted to jag an
interview with this head of an outlaw motorcycle gang in Australia.
It was really impossible to get This guy just was
about to get out of prison, and his lawyer took
me out on a boat on the Brisbane River and
(09:24):
I remember I was on this sort of speedboat with
the lawyer and us like a sergeant at arms from
this famous outlaw motorcycle gang. I remember going, what am
I doing out on the water with these known criminals
just in order to possibly show that I'm going to
be trustworthy enough to be granted this interview, you know
what I mean? And You're just going, are they you know,
they could tie some rocks to my legs and just
(09:45):
throw me down in the river, but you're there for
copy And it's like, yeah, I just think it's a journo.
It's a it's a blank spot. It's a dark spot
in a journo's life. They can't see risk because they're
so blinded by the power of that story and the scoop.
Were so driven by the scoop sometimes and I had that,
I had that, and now I've got different scoops that
I'm chasing. It's the scoop of ideas really, you know,
(10:07):
like I get hooked on an idea and I'll be
standing in the kitchen Francesca and Fees talking to me
and she knows. She goes, ah, damn it, you're doing
it again. You're thinking about the story. And she's like,
book week, book week. Remember we've got to get the
book week costume, you know, And it's like, don't forget that.
Book week costumes are actually why you're here. You're not
here to dazzle readers. You're here to be a dad
(10:28):
and you're here to be your husband, remember that, mate,
you know. So that's that's what Gravity's about.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Do you see that? Are you worried about your your
children and they are ability to assist risk? Can you
sing it in them?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah? It's like, please don't. My youngest daughter's got the bug.
So you know, my favorite character in Gravity is this
is this guy, Noah Cooks, who's the lead sort of
journal sort of hero of the story or anti hero.
But he's got this incredible daughter who wants to be
a journal too. And that's just my youngest daughter. I
see it in her. Francesca worryingly, she's got the story bug.
(11:03):
But this kid claming in Gravity, she does journal for
all the right reasons. She wants to talk about the light.
She wants to go interview the strangers in her street
and remind them why they're amazing. And it's like, that's
why actually I did get into journalism. That's my favorite
type of journalism.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And we should touch on that too, because I think
that this is something which we see in all your books.
You have this beautiful balance of light and dark.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh yeah, you know there's.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That hopefulness, that joy. It's always there. Just just when
you think you're going down a bit of a dark hole,
there's just whether it's a moment of humor or a
reflection or something, there's just that there's that lightness there
as well, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ah, that's from my life. That's you know, the Dalton
Boys are on a train to go visit our mum
in Boggo Road Women's Prison, you know, and we're telling
jokes to each other, you know, because we all know
how sad it's going to be, you know, like it's
it's I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That absolutely comes from my childhood, you know, And I
so admire New Zealand kids, Aussie kids who face the
worst traumas and they're living in the cracks and those little,
little little beams of light are coming down through humor
and love, you know, and they're the beams that they
cling to. And I just think that's so powerful. You can, really,
(12:17):
you can really make that light bright if you show
people how dark things can get. Yeah, but you've got
to go down into the darkness to let that stuff
shine so.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Bright in town because of course Love Stories is on
our stage at the moment, a very special book which
has come to life. And this theater piece. How exciting
is that being.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Civic theater in Auckland might be the greatest I know
it is. It's not even my I mean, I've been
in London theaters and that matches anything I've seen in
the world. It's the most beautiful, isn't it gorgeous? Like
I just am so honored that this story had this
idea to take a typewriter to a corner and ask
two hundred people to tell me about love. They turned
it into a play and now that thing's playing in
(12:58):
the civic theater. It's like, are you kidding? It's amazing,
It's the great I wanted to honor my best mate's
mum who handed me this typewriter. It was her best friend.
This nineteen seventy sky blew Oli Eddie typewriter. She said,
do something with it. I wrote a book, went out
to a street, asked people all these stories, and now
it makes its way to Auckland somehow. It's just incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think it's going to go a little bit further
than that. I think the empire is going to keep sprinting,
isn't it. It's just going to keep going. I mean,
love stories are so important, right Everyone's you know, life's
a bit tough at the moment. Everyone's finding things a
little bit hard. And at the end of the day,
if you've got some love in your life, you know,
you can see that Glamark, can't you. You can see
the life.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's the whole message of the story. There's you know,
the whole play eventually ends up being a revelation of
why I was on the corner anyway. It's the same
stuff I'm exploring, and gravity is that there were things
I actually needed to fix in my marriage that all
these wonderful strangers reminded me of. And the greatest thing
you'll ever take from that play, if you go see it,
is to drive home and go, Yeah, I am so lucky.
(13:56):
I've got five people in my life who love me.
You know, I'm so lucky. I've got one person in
my life still, you know what I mean? And to
remember also the people who don't have love. You know
that there are a lot of people in this city, Auckland,
I know, you know who have fallen through the cracks.
And you ask anyone the toughest thing to do in
life to live to live without his love forget. Yeah, yep,
(14:17):
food's tough and sheltz is tough, but love's still the
one that makes life really rough if you don't have it,
you know. So that play sort of speaks to that
as well.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Trent, thank you so much for your vulnerability, for your
brilliant writing, and for just putting out so much goodness
and gorgeousness into the world. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Right back at you.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That was Trent Dalton, And if you've had a chance
to pick up the book, you will recognize what he
was saying here. He was on a book tour. His
book pretty much kicks off with his main character hitting
out on a book tour. Hopefully it goes a little
bit better for Trent than it does for Noah, but
the similarities between his life and fiction are very hard
to miss.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Frandjiska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It'd be up next.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
A Kui actress who has not only made a name
for herself is being able to take on any character
with conviction, but an actress who has determined to do
things her own way. Melanie Linsky stars and some of
the biggest shows on the tally at the moment, and
recently returned home to start in Pike River, and we
began the conversation about how she got involved with the film.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
I'm trying to remember. It was so long ago now.
I think I got an email from Rob Sakis, the director,
and I knew him years ago, and it had been
sometime since we've been in touch, so I was wondering
what it was about, and he, you know, said he
(15:45):
had this project. I got sent the script and I
just thought the script was so moving and beautiful. I
obviously knew of the Pike River tragedy, but the script
really really really enlightened me as to so much more.
And then just reading about the relationship between and Sonya,
(16:07):
I just thought it was a very different and interesting
way to tell the story and the fact that these
two women helped each other through the worst time of
their lives, and I just I was sold. I thought
the script was beautiful. I was excited to work with
rob but then I was just like, oh, gosh, well,
so are they going to get And then when they
(16:28):
started to talk about Robin Milcolm, I just heaven like
dreams coming true. I've wanted to work with her for
so long, and she was even more wonderful than I anticipated,
and my hopes were very, very high. So it was
just it was pretty great.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Ah, you are a dream team together. It is a
masterclass in acting. It's kind of a bit of sweet
this film, because there is this horrific tragedy and a
lack of justice, and yet on the other side, you
do have this beautiful friendship that comes out of it
and a relentless fight for.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
What is right.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I wonder are there many scripts around like this?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
No, I mean, I don't know that I've ever read
a script that focuses so much on a female friendship.
Of course, now I'm thinking of Heavenly Creatures, but that's
kind of a different, different version of that, but it's
really I think every woman would say, like, our female
(17:29):
friends are the things that get us through. Like the
women that I have in my life are everything to me.
I've had friendships for since I was seven years old
that I still have. And to see a story that
focused so much on that, and then also, you know,
like you're saying, on their fight for justice and the
(17:52):
men that they lost, but the fact that their friendship
was so important to them and really did help get
them through this most awful time, it was such a
beautiful thing to see in life and to read in script.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yes, of course, because the families were on set and
heavily involved in the making of this film, what did
that bring to the film and the cast?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
It was funny. I mean when I first met Anna,
I understood quite quickly that she had not seen me
in much like I think she maybe had only seen
Two and a half Men, and so I think she
couldn't quite imagine. She just kept saying, Oh, but you're
so sweet, and you're so funny, and do you think
you can be angry? And do you think you can?
(18:38):
Have you done a lot of drama like she was
just you know, it's her life story. It's very, very,
very important, and I wanted to reassure her and say, yes,
I've done drama. You know I've done recently, I've been doing.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
A lot of drama, so you should see what I
can do.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Coen taking bites out of Hillary Swing's arm on television.
Don't worry, but I think you know I'm seft spoken
and I'm shy, and you've seen me play this like
wacky character in a comedy. And also it's very nerve wracking.
Someone's written the story of the worst thing that's ever
happened to you and then they cast somebody. And the faith,
(19:20):
even though she did have doubts, the faith that she
had in me was really beautiful and it meant a
lot to me. And all I wanted was to do
her justice. It was single minded at a certain point,
me wanting to make her happier, make her feel okay.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I'm sure there was. You sort of felt quite a
lot of responsibility. I imagine taking on a story like this,
I'm sure that would have waited on you.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Oh, a huge responsibility. It's massive. You know, I've played
real people before, and there is a certain amount of
separation that you have to do. You have to let
the person you're playing be somewhat of a character so
that you can embody it. You can't be doing an
impersonation of somebody, but to be doing this and at
(20:06):
the same time have the person you're playing on set,
it felt like a huge responsibility. There are some days
where we were filming very very emotional stuff and they
would say cut and I would see Anna off camera
visibly emotional, and you just never lose the gravity of
what you're doing. You never lose the sense of the
(20:26):
magnitude of the story that you're telling when you're reminded.
And also on the set, there were a lot of
people who have been involved in the tragedy who were
helping as crew members, who were background actors.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
And it was a.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Really unusual and quite profound experience.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You mentioned before you know reading this, You know, we
all know the story, and we all lived the explosion
and what came afterwards. But I think you touched on
something which really struck me when I watched the film.
As well as while we might know those milestones, we
don't quite realize that long lasting impact that this tragedy
(21:07):
had on those families. You know, the day to day
dealing with the grief and the struggle and the search
for justice and things. And that is something which I
agree with you. Really it really comes through in the film.
I think that's really important for getting an understanding of
what happened.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Yeah, and I think it's a very important thing to
anyone who's lost somebody as part of a bigger tragedy,
anyone who's had a loved one be a victim of
something that becomes a national tragedy. I do think that
the person that you loved, it was the most important
person in your entire world, becomes kind of faithless because
(21:46):
it's like one of twenty nine men who were lost
that day. And it was so important to Sonya and
to Anna and to the rest of the families to
have their loved ones remembered as individuals, as the most
important people in their lives, as people who will never
be replaced with they loved more than anybody. And I,
(22:07):
you know, Robin and I really wanted to make sure
that that came across from the film.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But also very brave that Anna let you be honest
about what happened. You know, she became very consumed by
seeking justice and grieving for her husband, and her relationships
with her other children began to fall apart. Yeah, I
think it's I think that's very brave of her to
kind of for us to really see that impact.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
It's incredibly brave, and she's very, very, very honest about it,
and she has a great relationship with her kids and
with her beautiful little granddaughter. But I think it's incredible
to want to tell the true story of what happened
and how it impacted you, And I think it's more
helpful for people to see the reality of what something
(22:56):
like this takes from someone. It's not just taking her husband,
who loved one away, but it took so much from
her and so much of her time as well.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Alanie, I know that you didn't haven't worked with Robin
Malcolm before. Course she plays Sonya rock House. I hear
that you two ended up as besties and got matching tattoos.
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It is true? It is true. I mean we haven't
seen each other since film, we don't live in the
same place, we haven't been near each other, but I
just treasure her. I've never gotten a matching tattoo with anybody,
including people I've been married to, so that was pretty unusual.
But yeah, we got matching tattoos. They're licorice all sorts,
(23:40):
and so I think of her every day when I
see my ankle, and I just love her. I mean,
she's such an incredible actress, and I just it's been
my dream to work with her, and the fact that
I got to on this movie just means so much
to me.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I feel like there's a great similarity between the two
of you as actresses in terms of the roles that
you take on and the way you two also resist
conforming to an industry that is for of pressure.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Oh thank you. I mean that's something that I absolutely
love and admire about Robin. She's insistent that there are
still stories to be told about women who are not
you know, twenty five thirty years old. And what she
did with after the party, you know, she created that
for herself, and that's one of the most impactful, beautiful
(24:32):
things I've seen in recent years. I just she was
so incredible. She's incredible on everything.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Fact that she's, you know, like me, aging pretty naturally,
trying to look like a regular human being. There is
a lot of pressure. You know, it's shocking how you
kind of look around, you're like, Oh my gosh, is
it just me that's not doing all the botox and everything?
I guess I guess so. And no disrespect to people
(25:01):
who are making that choice, you know, I think whatever
makes you happy. But there's also kind of an inherent
privilege in getting that kind of work done. It costs money,
you know, and there are so many women in the
world who kin'dt afford to do that, don't want to
have to waste their mental and emotional energy on that
(25:23):
kind of thing. And I do feel a responsibility to
continue looking like someone who might be sitting at home
watching the television.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I just I don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
We'll see five years from now you might be doing
an interview with me, and and that.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Looks like this different Melanie. Yes, I don't think so. Hey,
would you be interested in doing something similar to like
what Robin has done creating projects? Or are you just
so busy at the moment there's kind of no time
for you to do that.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
I'm starting to get into that a little bit more.
I'm not a writer, but you know, starting to work
with writers. I have a very very dear friend from
you Plymouth, who wrote a beautiful book called Before You
Knew My Name, which did really well. It's an incredible
book and we are developing that into a TV series,
so I'm very excited about that. And then just yeah,
(26:18):
trying to get into producing a little bit when it's
something I really can put my heart behind, and that
book is one of them.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
How good was it to come home to New Zealand
to be able to film? What was it like for you.
I've heard you say that you can kind of go
underneath the radar a little bit when you're in the US,
but I'm sure it was a little bit different when
you were back here.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
I don't know. I think I I think I can
kind of go under the radar anywhere. I think there's
like I don't know, like my husband will walk through
an airport with his head out, but he's just making
eye contact with everybody and grinning and people are like, oh,
there's Jason Ritta. I feel like I'm quite good at
moving in an undetectable way, which I'm like, you know,
(27:05):
it's I'm very very I'm not great with small talk,
so it's nice to just kind of go on about
my day. But anyone who did recognize me was incredibly nice.
If it's wonderful to go home. I wish I could
do it work at home more often. It's logistically it's difficult,
(27:27):
especially because I'm on to show that it was coming
back for multiple seasons, so trying to fit something into
the period of time where I'm not filming is always tricky.
But I'm grateful that I got to for this one.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But how wonderful is it that you still get to
work with amazing New Zealand actresses like Simone Kessel and
Yellowjackets and things.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Yes, Oh, I mean that was such a I mean
I suggested her for the part, so I'm happy that
they listened to me.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We spoke to her and she did give you credit
for that.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
Yes, yeah, I mean that's a vision and I was right,
and she was so wonderful on the show, and I
just love her, just love her so much. She's really fun.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Very exciting that you're able to make it back for
the premieres in Auckland and on the West Coast. Are
you looking forward to those? I think they're going to
be very emotional evenings.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of looking forward to it.
But I also I agree with you. I think it's
going to be very emotional, so I think it's going
to be a mix of things. I'm trying to prepare
myself and then also be open to whatever happens. But
I'm so glad I can come back.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
No, it's very exciting. Anything else on the horizons that
we should know about.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I'm going back to Yellow Jackets soon in a couple
of months, I think. And I just finished filming a
movie called Don't Say Good Luck with a young actress
called Sonny Sandler, who was really wonderful. And yeah, I'm
(29:05):
trying to take break. I'm trying to be with I
have a six year old and she's so precious, and
it's happening so quickly, so I've been trying to take
as many breaks as i can.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
That was Melanie Lynsky. So enjoyed our chat. Isn't she lovely?
I thought she was wonderfully grounded and humble and gracious
and articulate, a very cool woman. If you haven't already
seen Pike River, it's a.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Must bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio empowered by News
Talks at b.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
To finish up. Today, Pillars of the Earth author Ken
Follett joins me to talk about researching and writing historical novels.
His latest book is called Circle of Days and it's
set in twenty five hundred BC, and I started off
by asking him how much research goes into his epic novels.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Well, I normally spend about a year preparing to write
the book, well between six months and the year, and
that would be a common nation of figuring out the
plot and doing the research. So they happened together. What
happens is that I think of something that could happen
in the story, and then I think, well, could that
(30:20):
really happen or not? I need to I need to
find out whether this is possible. And also so then
I read a book about it or something, or search
the internet, and that gives me ideas for other dramatic
scenes in the story.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
So the two things work together.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You've written books which of course been set in the
tenth and eleventh centuries, twelve, fourteenth, sixte and twentieth century.
A certain amount of reference material is available your new book,
your latest book, Circle of Days. The story begins around
the year twenty five hundred BC on presuming there isn't
as much reference material available or were you surprised at
(31:01):
what you could discover.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
No, No, you're absolutely right about that. There's very little
is known about the Stone Age, and that's partly, of course,
because they left no records. They didn't have writing, and
reading had not been invented in Western Europe at the time,
although it existed in it was beginning to be invented
in the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But so they didn't.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Leave anything written, they didn't do many cave paintings, and
so all we've really got is what the archaeologists dig
up out of the ground. And so but my policy
is is I find out what's known by you know,
what the historians feel confident about, and then what isn't known.
(31:46):
I think I'm entitled to make up something plausible. It
has to be plausible, it has to relate to.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
The known facts.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
But I'm allowed to imagine how things might have been.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Is this what a track did you? What a track
did you to this particular era in the story of
Stone Hinge.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Well, I saw a book, in fact, sought the title
of a book, and the book was called how to
Build Stonehenge. And I just before I even bought the book.
I just thought that sounds like a Can Follick story
how to build Stonehenge, And and I've read the book
and I began to think about it. It's a story
(32:26):
in which ordinary human beings do something extraordinary. And that's
really the kind of story that I like, where where
we rise above our circumstances. And and you know, it
became more and more interesting as I went on.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
What you were so good at is sitting creating these
these worlds, taking us into this world, but you also
make the characters relevant to us. What is the secret
to taking historical figures but making them relevant to the
modern day. I'm presuming that's something you intend to do.
Speaker 6 (33:04):
Well, absolutely, And I think the secret is that there
are certain things that worry human beings.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
That go very.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Deep and are probably the same at any period of history.
For example, we worry about love and marriage and sex
and the children. I think everybody does that in every age.
We worry about violence, crime and war.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
And if the story is in these areas, then.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Whatever period you're in, these things will be on people's minds.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I'm fascinated by how you take such an enormous period
of history and turn it into one novel. I mean,
these are quite complex stories. What's the art to.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That, Well, the story really has to come out of
the research. Is that you can't take a modern love
story and plant it in Tudor times, for example, or
in the Middle Ages. That the way it has to
work is the story idea has to come out of
the circumstances of that historical period. And then, of course
(34:18):
the characters that you invent can have all the concerns
and all the hopes and fears of every historical period,
but they're linked directly linked to something specific to the
Middle Ages or the sixteenth century or the Victorian era.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
We were just talking there, we were talking before about, you know,
making these characters so relevant. I imagine them that you
would look back through history and see a lot of
parallels with modern times.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Well, I think so, although you know what I look
for In every period of history, there are people who rebel.
They say, I'm not going to be the person that I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Told to be.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
You know, the women all through history who have said
I don't want to be married and have children. I
want to be a scientist, or I want to be
a painter or something like that. And of course, they're
the most interesting people who write about so although occasionally
I'm accused of making the story modern, the truth of
(35:29):
the matter is that not everybody is typical of the
era that they live in, and the people who who
go against the tide are the most interesting people.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
What did you learn about stone Hinge that fascinated you?
Maybe you didn't know.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Well, something that I really didn't know about was the
importance of flint. It's the Stone Age, so they have
no metal tools, so they have no knives. The only
cutting tool they have is a flint and used this,
you know, whatever they did chop down trees. For example,
(36:10):
they had a little hand axe and you can't can't.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
We can't show this on the radio, can be. But
I can show it to you now.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
So it's it's smaller than my hand and I've got
little hands, and that's the kind of thing they would
use to chop down an oak tree.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
So it must have taken them a long time, but
it was all they had.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
And the other thing about it is that the best
flint is found quite deep underground, so they mined it. Now,
we don't think of the Stone Age as being sophisticated
enough to have mines. But in this country, in England,
there are the remains of many flint mines, and I
was able to go down one quite deep. I had
(36:53):
to wear, you know, the apparight, a wire that connected
me to the surface in case I stumbled on the
ladder so that I wouldn't fall to my death. And
then when I got to the to the base of
the shaft, I saw that there were tunnels going radially
out from the base of the shaft in all directions.
(37:15):
In other words, just like a modern day coal mine,
which I've also been dow coal mines for research. But
I had to crawl on my hands and knees. This
was one of the more difficult bits of research that
I did, crawling around, cowering around twenty meters underground on
my hands and knees. I had knee patches and elbow
patches and gloves and a helmet, investigating, trying to imagine
(37:40):
what it was like for the Stone Age people who
were looking for these but very valuable flints. And then
the importance of that is, of course they were miners.
You can't eat flints. They had to trade the flints
for what they needed, food and clothing, and so on,
and that proved to us that there was trading in
(38:01):
the Stone Age, which we might not have been sure
of otherwise. And so that was the only industry they had,
really mining flints and sharpening them. That's called napping. You
have to hit the flint with a stone in such
a way that a flake comes off and leaves a
sharp edge. Quite a skill. And so that whole industry exists.
(38:27):
That I had no idea that that whole industry existed.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Fascinating the places. I'm sure you've been to some very
very interesting places. With all the historical novels that you
have written and the research that you've done. Can you
start it out as a journalist, then you became a
thriller writer before turning to these big epic historical novels,
And of course I think everybody has read Pillars of
the Earth. What made you turn to historical fiction.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Well, it was the cathedrals themselves. One I was writing thrillers.
I wrote thrillers because I like thrillers. I still do
like thrillers. In fact, I was so deep into one
that I was a bit late for this talk with
you this evening.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I had to be phoned.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You were told no, you were on time, no complaints anyway.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
So I was I was just interested in the cathedrals,
and I was, I mean, they're very beautiful that they've
been there for hundreds and hundreds of years, but I
was interested in the people who built them and how
they built them. And you'll obviously this curiosity of mine
obviously applies in a similar way to Stonehenge, although the
(39:38):
circumstances are completely different and the story is completely different.
But I I I thought that there was a great
popular novel to be written about building a cathedral. And
a lot of people didn't agree with me, and some
of my publishers were very nervous about it. I think
(40:02):
they thought I was going to, well, I might write
a difficult book, you know, a book that's really only
for intellectuals, or something like that. And really I was
convinced that there could be a great popular novel about this.
One of my publishers actually took my wife Barbara aside
and said, you've got to stop Ken writing this book.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
It's going to ruin his career.
Speaker 6 (40:23):
And so it was perhaps the only time in my
life when I've been writing. Everybody else has been wrong anyway,
that doesn't happen to me anywhere near as often as
I'd like so anyway, so I was convinced that that
would be it would be a terrific book, and I
went ahead with it. And then, of course I really
(40:43):
had to make sure that it was you know, readable
and enjoyable and paid a page turner, because if I
if I'd eased up on that that impulse.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Then the publishers would have been proved right.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
Anyway, So, as you obviously know, it turned out very well,
and a lot of people have really enjoyed that book.
I'm very glad I wrote it.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It's a bit of an odd question, but we we
live in quite interesting times. Do you ever wish that
you could go into the future and write about what's
happening today? Is historical not is historical fiction?
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (41:17):
That would be interesting, wouldn't it, Because of course in
the future you'd know how all the crises that we're
living through that we know, you'd know how they ended.
I'm often asked if I'd like to go into the past,
and I would like to talk to Shakespeare. I think
if I, if if I had a time machine, that
(41:38):
would be my first trip, because I'd like to ask
him about the good things and the and the bad
things in his book. I'd like to I'd like to,
you know, read, I mean, his most famous speech, to
be or not to be? That is the question whether
it's nobler in the mind to suffer the string spring,
(42:00):
the strip, the strings and arrows of slings and arrows
ab outrageous fortune, or to take arms against the sea
of troubles. And wait a minute, Will you can't take
arms against a sea?
Speaker 4 (42:13):
That's a crap line? Will did you? Were you in
a hurry?
Speaker 6 (42:18):
Or is there some deep meaning there that I haven't noticed.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
I'd love to ask him that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
I think he's probably very grateful. We haven't devised a
time machine just yet. One other thing I wanted to
quickly ask you about, Ken is that you've been involved
in a lot of charities over the years, and you
were president of the Dyslexia Action for ten years, as
well as many others. What drove you to get involved
in an organization like that?
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Well, you know, given the life I've lived, it seems
to me such a tragedy when people can't read, or
can't read without difficulty. It's given me such joy.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
You know, I was obviously not dyslexic.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
I could read when I was four years old, and
I've loved reading ever since, starting with you know, Noddy
goes to toy Town and all the way through James Bond,
and it's given me such joy. And I feel it's
such a shame if people can't read, and if there's
a way to help them, we should and I did.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
I was some of the I'm not just some of
the people.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
In my family are dyslexic, and I'm dyslexic, and I've
seen them struggle with it. And there was a time
when schools just didn't even believe in dyslexia. And you
still come across schools where they say there's no such
thing as dyslexia.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
But I think it's great.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
If those people get special help. I also organized the
National Year of Reading in ninety eight to ninety nine,
and the object of that campaign was to was to
persuade people to read for pleasure, because that's the way
you develop your literacy abilities when you're just doing it
(44:00):
for fun, doing it because you enjoy it, and so
and the more the more that young person reads for pleasure,
the better literacy skills that person will have all through
their life, so it always seemed to me.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
These were very worthwhile.
Speaker 6 (44:17):
I know there are one hundred made, probably a thousand
charities that are worth supporting, but that was the one
that seemed closest to my heart.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Do you ever stop end reflect on your career? Thirty
eight box, one hundred and ninety eight million copies sold.
I mean, it's pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
Well, when I do, I can hardly believe it. I mean,
it's really two hundred million books. I mean, how did
that happen? I mean, I you know, I was always ambitious.
I wanted a lot of people to read my books,
but that just you can't imagine two hundred million books,
can you. I mean, I don't know how many times
(44:54):
they go around the world, end on end. So I'm
sort of I'm sort of gobsmacked when I think about it.
I don't think about it very much, but when I
do think about it and somebody says, how many books
have you sold in total? And I say, which, it's
one hundred and ninety eight million at the moment and
still rising, And then I think, wow, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
It's a lot of joy of reading, isn't it? A
lot of joy? Yes, I hope that was the lovely
ken followed. I learned a lot from that interview, but
most importantly, I was reminded that sometimes one must go
with their gut instinct or do what they want, even
if everyone else thinks you're mad and you're going to
ruin your career.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca Rudgin on iHeartRadio powered by news Talks It'd Be.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Thank you for joining me on this News Talk's He'd
Be podcast. Please feel free to share these chats, and
if you liked this podcast, make sure you follow us
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget
we released a new episode of Great Chats on the
last Thursday of every month.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks it'd Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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