Ethan Griffiths: Newstalk ZB political reporter on the ongoing war of words between Nicola Willis and Ruth Richardson

The war of words continues between Finance Minister Nicola Willis and former Finance Minister Ruth Richardson.

Richardson - the chair of the Taxpayers' Union - has been fronting a new campaign against Willis's fiscal decisions.

The pair have agreed to debate each other, but are yet to agree on when or where.

Newstalk ZB political reporter Ethan Griffiths says the pair have expressed interest in having the debate on Newstalk ZB, with Heather du Plessis-Allan overseeing it from the Breakfast slot.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
News Talk ZB political reporter Ethan Griffiths is with me now.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning Ethan, Good morning Francesca.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay, we got the half year Economic Fiscal Update being
released this week. Are you excited? What are we expecting?

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I am kind of excited. Actually, it's the final sitting
week of Parliament for the year and it's going to
be a really, really big one. Not only is the
House sitting under urgency so from nine am to midnight
each day to pass a bunch of legislation. We've got
two very big economic updates. The first, as you say,
is the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, or HAIFU

(00:47):
as we call it. It sounds boring, but it is
one of the biggest days of the year in terms
of the government's books. We get to look at Treasury's
latest forecasts. What's the predicted growth, where's unemployment and inflation going?
All very important things as we head into election year.
And of course the government opens its books too, so
what's the debt track, what's the income looking like, what

(01:08):
costs have risen? Now we only see this data twice
a year, once at the budget and again each December.
It all happens in the lock up, where journalists are
locked in a room for three hours to pour over
the data. So that's happening on Tuesday. Then on Thursday
we get some real data, not forecasts. The Q three
GDP figure is out telling us where the economy's gone

(01:31):
and the three months to September. You'll remember, of course,
the Q two data had a huge drop zero point
nine percent, which no one was predicting. But economists are
a lot more hopeful for this set of numbers, so
that'll be interesting on Thursday too.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I was going to say, can you tell by the
sort of the look on the faces of ministers as
they walking around Parliament to whether it's going to be
with the news is going to be good or bad?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I mean they claim that they don't find out the
information before all the rest of us, but I'm not
entirely sure of that. I would think that they would
get somewhat of a heads up, but whether they have
the figures or not at the moment, I'm not sure.
I suspect there might be some buoyant faces around after
some decent polling on the government side, particularly that one
News poll last week. But yeah, it's also the end

(02:16):
of the year, so over I was kind of happy anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Ethan, I understand it's a bit of a stunt, it's
a bit of a side show, it's a distraction, it's
performative politics, all the things that people have called it
this week. But I'm actually quite interested to see Nikola
Willis debate Ruth Richardson. I'm quite happy to have a
contest of ideas and values and to hear things in
detail and have a good debate on it. Are we
going to get our debate?

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, I'm equally as excited as you are. I think
it would be quite cool. I'm not sure it's the
smartest move in terms of political optics from Nichola Willis.
You know, why are you debating someone that was in
charge thirty years ago? But regardless, I think it's going
to be very entertaining if it does happen. Now that,
of course, is former Finance Minister Ruth Richardson challenging or
Nichola Willis challenging her to a debate. Now, Ruth is

(03:02):
the chair of the Taxpace Union, which this week came
out and fiercely criticized Willis around hacks of fudge with
Nicholas's face all over them, claiming she's fudging the numbers.
Ruth says, as we know that Nicholas spending like a
drunken sailor, claiming she hasn't reduced spending. Nichola, on the
other hand, says she has cut wasteful spending and of
course wants to debate Ruth and I quote to test

(03:26):
what her tolerance for human misery is. So there does
seem to be a little bit of an impasse between
the two sides. The Taxpayers Union, of which Ruth is
the chair, as I say, says they want the debate
on Newstalk zb with Heather on breakfast. Willis, on the
other hand, had already booked out a hall at Parliament.
She wants it to be hosted by Toby Mannhei from
The Spinoff, who's just completed his fantastic Juggernaut series where

(03:49):
he extensively interviewed Ruth. Now I have spoken to Nichola's
team this morning. They say, thus still at an impasse,
but it's looking very promising that it will be held
this week.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I like the fact we've got a finance minister who
is not afraid to step up and you know, debate
her beliefs in her approaching her policies. Yeah, someone's trying
to very openly undermine her. I like the fact that
she's not slinking off to Christmas and hoping everybody forgets
about it.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, totally. And one thing that Ruth keeps saying is,
you know, Nichola needs to have the courage of her
convictions and start cutting spending like she did. Well. It
remains true that the two I think have very different convictions.
I think Nikola is not a finance minister that would
openly cut you know, benefits, the health budget, etc. I

(04:36):
think it's going to be a very interesting debate and
I can only hope that it does get off the ground.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Ethan, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
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