Francesca Rudkin: Willis v Richardson, I'm all for it

It’s a stunt, performative politics, a farce, a side show, a distraction from the HYEFU and quarterly GDP results being released this week… goodness me, the thought of a debate between our current Finance Minister, Nicola Willis, and a previous Finance Minister, Ruth Richardson, caused quite a stir this week, didn't it?  

Politics is, by its nature, a contest of ideas and values, so why are we afraid of a little debate? We see performative debate taking place in the House on a regular basis? Dare I say it - but with all the hype, maybe people will watch this one. 

I like that Finance Minister Nicola Willis isn’t quietly counting down the days until the Christmas break to slink away and hope the fudge campaign, devised by the Taxpayers Union, will slowly slip from our minds after a bevy and BBQ or three.  

In his column in the NZ Herald this week, Mathew Hooton said that whoever advised Finance Minister Nicola Willis to challenge her predecessor Ruth Richardson, now the chair of the Taxpayers Union, to a debate should be sacked. I wonder whether Willis, an experienced debater, came up with the idea herself.  

Hooton has a point - it’s potentially a lose-lose situation. Richardson is going to be cast as a member of the hard-nose right happy to inflict misery on people to achieve fiscal consolidation, and Willis could be a sitting duck depending on the HYEFU and quarterly GDP results released next week.  

But do we want politicians who are always thinking about themselves, take a strategic approach and craft their messaging to avoid transparency, or would you prefer a Finance Minister prepared to openly discuss one of the main issues concerning New Zealanders today - the state of the economy - with someone who is trying to undermine her?  

The NZ Herald’s political editor, Thomas Coughlan, does an excellent job of explaining what’s behind this situation in his article titled Ruth Richardson v Nicola Willis - the facts behind the argument.  

Essentially, after a financial crisis or shock it is accepted that Governments spend more to get through - and that the books end up in a bit of mess - but once the economy has ‘restarted’ and we’re on the other side of the shock, fiscal consolidation kicks in, and budgets tighten so the country is ready for the next financial shock.  

What is to be debated is whether the current coalition is moving fast enough when it comes to this fiscal consolidation. Will we be ready for the next financial shock? We know we have challenges ahead - with two of the known ones being our aging population’s impact on our health system and the increased cost of superannuation. Do we increase taxes? Reduce spending and inflict the social costs of austerity? Or do we risk taking a slower approach to getting back on track, with less negative impact on our communities?

As long as it’s a civil one - it sounds like something worth debating. But it needs to be a debate which doesn’t get personal, nasty or derogatory. One in which each debater expresses their values and the reasoning behind their approach, backs their thinking with evidence and outlays a long term vision for New Zealand. This is the kind of discourse we should be having. Let’s get an independent economist to run it - and get on with it.  

If nothing else - it could be highly entertaining, something we could all do with at this point in the year.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's a stunt performative politics, a farce, a sideshow, a
distraction from the high few and quarterly GDP results being
released this week. Goodness me, the thought of a debate
between our current Finance Minister Nicola Willison previous Finance Minister
Ruth Richardson calls quite a stir this week, didn't it.
Politics is, by its nature a contest of ideas and value,

(00:34):
So why are we afraid of a little debate? We
see performative debate taking place in the House on a
regular basis. Dare I say it? But with all the hype,
maybe people will watch this one. I like the fact
that Finance Minister Nichola Willis isn't quietly counting down the
days until Christmas break to slink away and hope that
the fudge campaign devised by the tax Payers Union will

(00:58):
slowly slip from our minds. After Bevy and a barbecue
or three in this column. In his column and The
New Zealand here this week, Matthew Houghton said that whoever
advised Finance Minister Niccola Willis to challenge her predecessor of
Ruth Richardson, now chair of the Tax Pas Union, to
a debate should be sacked And I wonder whether Willis,
in experienced debater, came up with the idea herself. Houton

(01:20):
does have a point. It is potentially a lose lose situation.
Richardson is going to be cast as the member of
a hard nose right happy to inflict misery on people
to achieve fiscal consolidation, and Willis could be a sitting
duck depending on how the high Few and quarterly dedyp
results are released during the week. But do we want
politicians who are always thinking about themselves, taking a strategic prof

(01:41):
approach and crafting their message to avoid transparency or would
you prefer a finance minister prepared to openly discuss one
of the main issues concerning New Zealand is today the
state of the economy, with someone who was trying to
undermine her. New Zealand Herald's political editor Thomas Cogland does
an excellent job of explaining what's behind this situation in
his article titled Ruth Richardson versus Nikola Willis. The facts

(02:03):
behind the argument. Essentially, after a financial crisis or shock,
it's accepted that governments spend more to get through the
box end up in a bit of a mess. But
once that economy has restarted, what's on the other side
of the shock, fiscal consolidation kicks in the budget's titan,
so the country is ready for the next financial shock.
What is to be debated is whether the current coalition

(02:24):
is moving fast enough when it comes to this fiscal consolidation.
Will we be ready for the next financial shock. We
know we have challenges ahead, with two of the nine
ones being our aging populations, impact on our house system
and increasing cost of superannuation. So do we increase taxes,
reduce spending and afflict the social costs of austerity or
do we risk taking a slow approach to getting back

(02:45):
on track with less negative impact on our communities. As
long as it's civil, it sounds like something worth debating,
But it needs to be a debate which doesn't get personal,
nasty or derogatory, one in which each debater expresses their
values and the reasoning behind their approach, backs their thinking
with evidence, and outlays a long term vision for New Zealand.
This is the kind of discourse we should be having.

(03:07):
Let's get an independent economist to run this debate and
get on with it. If nothing else, it could be
highly entertaining, something we could all look forward to or
enjoy at this time of year.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio