Full Show Podcast: 01 June 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
Reads News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session on the
first of June. I'm for to correcting with you until midday.
Coming up on the show today, the fabulous Mel Parsons
is in for a chat and a song. It's been
a busy time since she released her sixth album, Sabotage
last year, and this week she was nominated for Album
of the Year and Best Folk Artist at the Outer
Music Awards. She is with us to talk about life

(00:50):
on the road, and she's going to sing some new
music for us. After eleven, I'm joined by nutritionalist Claire
Turnbull to talk about her difficult relationship with food throughout
her life and how to change your eating habits for good.
She's got a new book out it's called End Your
Fight with Food. It's filled with lots of practical tips
to help you step away from that dieting roller coaster

(01:12):
and the frustration that comes with it, and of course
as always most welcome. You are most welcome to text anytime.
On ninety two ninety two the Sunday session, so this week.
The New Zealand Rugby Unions says it will cancel senior
rugby matches for a weekend if there are any more
incidents of serious abuse directed towards referees and I say

(01:33):
good on them. The Horrofinua Kupiti Rugby Football Union said
recent events had seen reefs targeted with verbal threats, threats
of physical harm, including of being stabbed and actual physical abuse.
I mean, we don't put up with verbal or physical
abuse or intimidation in our homes or in our workplaces.
Why would we put up with it in a public

(01:55):
space in front of families watching a game of sport. Look,
this isn't a new problem, but is it getting worse?
Or are we just now fed up enough to do
something about it? We can Sports Jason Pine told me
yesterday he thinks it's a bit of both. Back in March,
and New Zealand survey released by Active, the Regional Sports
Trust for the wider Auckland Region, found that more than

(02:16):
sixty percent of survey participants had witnessed in appropriate behavior
at least once or twice a season, and keep this
most of it was verbal abuse directed at children. It
also found that referees and volunteers were subjected to verbal abuse.
In my view, this is an unhealthy extension of the
rowdy Kiwi sidelines, filled with subjective parents, one eyed supporters,

(02:37):
self proclaimed experts, passionate school pits, and plenty of encouragement
and banter, and increasingly it seems abuse. So I've got
a fix. Not everyone will like the idea. You may
think it's no fun. You may ask what's the point
of standing in miserable winter weather watching your kid if
you can't be part of it? But has the idea
quite down on the sideline, think of kids sport as

(02:59):
an opportunity to show them positivity rather than aggression, and
maybe this will dim the amount of abuse in sport
in general. I have some experience with this. I have
always been vocal from the sideline. I've thought of it
as a sign of interest in my kids and my encouragement.
But when I stood on the field for my first

(03:20):
foray into coaching and refing eight year old's football, I
was absolutely shocked at what I heard. Children can't hear
specific instructions because generally parents all yell at the same time.
When the attack is threatening and the defense is scrambling,
all they hear, as I discovered, is noise. Loud, aggressive

(03:45):
instructional noises, then either noises of disappointment or celebration. They
also can't hear each other or the reef. It is overwhelming,
and ever since that experience, I've been a fan of
only positive noises. I know it sounds a bit woho,
but it works. Claps and chairs when players do well,
because children and teens all know when they didn't play well,

(04:07):
they don't need to be told. So it was great
to see more than a thousand players aged between five
and ten from ten Hawks Bay clubs yesterday taking part
in the Unison Junior Festival. This football event was all
about positive vibes, as it aimed to highlight the importance
of constructive and supportive sideline behavior from parents and supporters
and look, it's just one of the many campaigns out

(04:28):
there to create a more supportive environment for people involved
in sport. Top New Zealand rugby ref and victim of
horrible abuse, Ben O'Keefe is now an ambassador for Love
their game, which was launched by Active to remind people
that the game belongs to those playing, refereeing, coaching, and
managing and not those on the sideline. So obviously I'm
not the only one that's had this idea. Hopefully these

(04:48):
types of programs will mean more quality experiences for those
involved in sport, from the players to the volunteers. And
can I suggest that if you don't like the way
a team is managed, coached, or refereed, then feel free
to step up and become a volunteer yourself rather than
yelling from the sidelines.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Session all right?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Ninety two ninety two let me know your thoughts. Look,
I know some sports all clubs have put a no
noise from the sideline rule in place, which I think
is a little extreme. I don't mind some good old
fashion clapping and cheering, but you know, the abuse can
stay at home. So I'm wondering if we do set
these expectations from a young age, will it make a
difference over time across all sports? A ken to heal

(05:31):
thoughts Right up next act MP Laura McClure on why
she shared a nude pic of herself in Parliament this week.
It is twelve past nine. You're with News Talks EDB
Gray Recover.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and wid calls
for the best selection of gratings used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Fifteen past nine.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
So, this week we saw MP Laura McClure share a
nude peck of herself in Parliament. It was a bold move,
but the picture wasn't Laura. It was an AI deep fake,
an image created by Laura herself support her proposed bill
to criminize the creation and sharing of non consensual deep fakes.
So UK has already made moves to crack down on this,
citing a four hundred percent increase in deep fakes since

(06:13):
twenty seventeen. In the US is also introduced to legislation AGD.
MP Laura McClair is worth me. Now, good morning, Laura,
thanks for your.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Time, Good morning, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Okay, So, standing up in front of Parliament with a
photo of yourself, a nude photo, even though it was
a fake, What.

Speaker 6 (06:30):
Was that like?

Speaker 5 (06:33):
Absolutely terrifying. I had almost almost cheppened out last minute.
My colleague Nicole McKee was the next thing, and she's like,
you've got this. It's worth it. So yeah, okay, absolutely terrifying.
It was blurred and clearly the image I know it
is not actually me because I made it, but it

(06:53):
still was absolutely terrifying. And yeah, I really feel for
the victims that have this happened to them. So it
felt like I had to do it to make the point.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
And what was the point you were trying to make?

Speaker 5 (07:05):
So the point was to get the attention of the
other MP's in the House to raise the issue of
how concerning it is and how prolific this issue is becoming,
and particularly with our young people at high schools for example,
because I'm our education spokes so that I'm out talking
to principles and parents quite frequently, and I'm a parent myself.
So the deep fake kind of abuse has really increased

(07:30):
in the last sort of three to five years, and
it's becoming more and more prolific, and it's really doing
quite serious harms. I'm hearing some really sad stories. So yeah,
it just blows my mind that this is not included
in our current legislation, and I think it's a gap
that we need to address really urgently to stop this
kind of harm happening.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I agree. How long did it take you to
create that image?

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Less than five minutes or so. So I just opened
up the Google browser, moved top off the safe filter,
typed in deep fake node, and then there were there
is literally hundreds of different websites. The first one that
popped up was a blog recommending the sixty top sites
to do this on. I didn't need to download an app,
I didn't need to create an account. All I needed

(08:19):
was a headshot of myself, which obviously is you know,
out there readily available. And I've heard of schools this
happening when people have had their image taking off, like
the school service for example. So yeah, it didn't take
long at all, at least than five minutes, and I
had ten images of myself looked staringly like myself, and

(08:42):
in places that could be in my home like the bathroom,
to be droo in the kitchen for example.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
So anyone can do this, I think you have to
think like, yes, I'm over eighteen, but that's about was
that about the only thing stopping you doing this?

Speaker 5 (08:54):
Well, you know the y Yes I'm yes, I'm over eighteen,
and yes I give you know, I have the consent
to youth.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
All right, okay, completely yeah, yeah, okay, so completely irrelevant exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
So what would does bill do?

Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, so this bill, we've already got framework in place,
and we have a revenge porn kind of framework that
came in in twenty twenty two. So all it would
do is as synthetically created images i e. Deep fakes
and essential and we already have all of the descriptions

(09:32):
as to what it is in place, and it would
it's basically already to go a couple of words in
the Harmful Digital Communications Act and also the Crimes Act,
and that would set this up to be an official
crime because at the moment, without its being well defined,

(09:52):
people are actually using this to you know, get off.
It's a bit of a loophole unfortunately, and also the
place find it hard to get a prosecution, so they
don't really do much when they hear of these cases.
So we kind of we need something in place, and
we also need help for victims. There's no victims support
at the moment, and schools are just crying out for
help with dealing with these issues.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it sounds like the legislative aspect of it is
relatively simple as far as yeah, legislation, guys.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Absolutely, And look, I mean in twenty twenty two there
was an amendment pots through to include deep facts, I
think by the Green Party at the time, and AX
supported them, but it didn't, unfortunately get the full the
House support to get it across. But it really is
a matter of just changing and adding in a new
definition as to what would be considered harmful. And I

(10:44):
think that, like everybody can agree that it is quite
harmful when you've got images out there that look exactly
like yourself. And it's not just images, it's actually like
pornography as well, so we're talking all kinds of degrading,
dehumanizing videos that are out there as well.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
This is a member's bill at the moment, Laurel. What
is it going to be possible for you to make
this a government bill? Because it seems to I don't
know why we're wasting time doing this. This technology just
keeps going faster and changing faster than we can keep
up with. Why aren't we making a move on this?

Speaker 5 (11:18):
I absolutely agree with you. Look, it's something that I
obviously feel very passionately about. And the more that I'm
researching this topic and having my bill out there the
more sad stories that are coming to me, and you know,
like I'm very motivated to try and push this to
become potentially a government bill. Got the support of New
Zealand first to do that. It's just convincing my other

(11:39):
coalition partner that this is, you know, quite an urgent issue.
But I also have support from across the opposition side
because I do think that this isn't a political issue.
I think everybody you know, whether they're female, whether they
have got a mom and a sister, a daughter for example,
that can all relate that they would not want this
to happen to them. So look, I think I do

(11:59):
have quite a lot of support out there. It's just
whether we can either make this a government bill or
whether I can get the support to potentially skip the
bill even.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Can you tell me a little bit about the impact
it has had on people? As you say, you mentioned
you have been contacted by victims of deep fakes. Is
there a lack of understanding and appreciation for just how
damaging these are?

Speaker 5 (12:22):
Yeah, look, I do think so, and I think when
you're dealing in particularly the youth space, and that's where
we've seen the biggest rise in this kind of abuse
I call it because it is abuse realistically, or bullying
is kind of a bullying mechanism. But the types of
cases that I'm hearing about, you know, young girls potentially

(12:43):
one of one of the victims that I've heard about,
she was of a religious faith, not originally from New Zealand,
and she got deep fated by somebody in her class,
and not only was that completely and utterly humiliating, it
was also really really bad for her family. So she

(13:04):
went on to have quite significant issues, wouldn't return back
to that particular school, which is somewhat understandable and is
now still struggling with the ongoing mental health issues from this.
And there's not a lot of support, and there's not
a lot that the schools can do, you know, other
than telling somebody else telling them that it's you know,
it's a really bad thing to do. I think if

(13:25):
we had, if we had this actually as a crime,
it would send a message to our young people to say, hey,
this is actually how serious it is. It's not just
a funny joke with your mates. A line in the
same trying.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I mean, will the police be able to actually do
anything more than they're currently doing or is it more
about charging society's perception of it. I like the idea
about offering more support as well.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
Yeah, definitely. Look, I think it's I think it's both.
I think it would be sending a signal to society
that hey, this actually is harmful and it's not acceptable.
So we've got that. And secondly, it gives place the
ability to actually come and look at potential prosecut for
you know, really bad cases, potentially some sort of rehabilitative

(14:11):
program depending you know, I mean, a judge would have
the ability to imprison someone for up to two years,
but they'd have lots of other options here. I don't
expect it to be a hugely punitive thing with our youth, however,
I do think it would set an example, and it
would give schools opportunity to access victim support because they
can't access that currently. So that's that is really I

(14:31):
think super important. And it gives the schools a way of,
you know, dealing with this issue as well. And look,
I think if we if we could get onto this,
we might actually be able to nip it in the
bud before someone takes their own life. Because there has
actually been one of the cases I've heard about a
young thirteen year old girl attempted to take her own
life over this, So it is really serious and I

(14:52):
think at what point, you know, are we going to
do something about this or are we going to wait
for somebody?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
ACC? Yeah, ACC currently covers therapy for sexual abuse victims.
Will they would somebody who is a victim of a
deep fake crime, would they be eligible for that funding
to get help with their mental health?

Speaker 5 (15:15):
Look, I'm not sure on that technical point, but I
would expect them to be under the same category as
the revenge porn and so I would expect it to be.
But at the moment, definitely there is no specific support
it or available unfortunately. Laura really and appreciately for the
families too.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Laura, really appreciate your time this morning.
Good on you for getting up there with your with
your fake nude and bringing this to attenda because I'm
with you a parent of teenagers, and I'm hearing a
lot about the impact that these deep fakes are having
and they're coming for all of us and it's all
really rather terrifying.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
So thank you very much for the Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Okay, So just Sinda Adurn a different kind of power.
The book is out this week on the third of June,
and ahead of the release, Dame de Cindra is doing
some selective media interviews. Probably won't come as a huge
surprise that she's declined to talk to news talks'd be,
but we've been taking a look at some of the

(16:13):
interviews and reports about the book which have been coming out.
One of the interviews as tomorrow on CBS in the US,
they've shared this little teaser.

Speaker 7 (16:21):
Could you come back to politics in New Zealand at
some point?

Speaker 3 (16:25):
No.

Speaker 6 (16:26):
I think if you make the decision to leave, then
you've made the decision to leave.

Speaker 8 (16:29):
Well, leaders have had chapters in their life.

Speaker 9 (16:32):
Look at Winston Churchill, Out of Power comes back years later.

Speaker 10 (16:36):
You know.

Speaker 6 (16:37):
I think that for me, I was so clear about
my departure, my reason for my departure, but never say never.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
In this case, they never think.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
Also for me, I have such great faith that all
the people that I worked with and was lucky enough
to work with, they they're wonderful, they're doing a great
job and they don't need me.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
And Her first major print interview that she has given
since she resigned with The Guardian has just gone on line.
She did an editor with The Guardian's editor in chief
and they talked about all sorts of things. The editor
said that the only really mean comment that they could
find in the book is about the very right wing
New Zealand politician David Seymour, and they claim it was

(17:21):
laugh out, loud, funny and it was all to do
worth when she called him an arrogant prick, and she
thought she might have said something else, and then was
apparently hugely relieved that she hadn't said something else. She
talks about being a chronic overthinker, and that the book
is dedicated to the criers, the warriors and the haggers.
She said that sensitivity was her weakness, her tragic floor,

(17:41):
the thing that just might stop her sticking with the
work that she loved. The interviewer said that they thought
that this was the most modest political memoir that they'd read,
and she said, well, have you read any other New
Zealand political memoirs. I think that's not a trait particular
to me. There was talk about why she left. She

(18:03):
says burnout's not to blame. She said, burnout is very
different from making a judgment in yourself as to whether
or not you're operating at the level you need to be.
Things were starting to get to her more than usual,
and of course she said, I was tired, but there
wasn't everybody in their forties but to talk too, of
course about the COVID area, about COVID era and the pandemic.

(18:25):
Apparently a few tears came into the eye at this point.
She writes she'd always tried to be human first and
a leader second. She was asked whether she now thinks
she went too hard with restrictions and vaccine mandates, and
she says that New Zealand came out of COVID with

(18:46):
one of the highest vaccination rates in the world in
fewer days in lockdown the nations like the UK or
during this time, and during this time, our country's life
expectancy actually increased. The interviewers said it sounded like she
feels she's been unfairly attacked over her approach to COVID,
and apparently she went very still and quiet and had
tears in her eyes. Just said I find COVID really hard.

(19:09):
And she said, people only say this is an interesting quote.
People only see the decisions you made, not the choices
you had the first part of COVID, people saw all
the choices and decisions in the second half just got hard.
It just it got hard. Vaccines bring an extra layer
that's really difficult. So look, there's all sorts of bits
of pieces in here for you. The listener didn't get

(19:32):
an interview, but they did say that they've sort of
had to flick through the book obviously, and don't feel
that the book is for us. There's a lot of
sort of americanisms in it. You know, she was in
her junior year of high school and things like that.
Apparently the book to her isn't even visiting New Zealand.
But you know what, I'm probably still going to read it,
still intrigued to see how this story's going to continue
to unfold. Are you interested in reading it? King to

(19:54):
hear from you, ninety two ninety two. It is twenty
nine minutes past nine.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
That'd be.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Thank you very much for your texts. Trump has written
this into law. We're talking about the deep fakes that
AI sexually explicit deep fakes. Trump has written this into law.
With the taker down Act. This is an excellent idea. Yes,
the and US and the UK are much further ahead
with dealing with this than we are. Mars Is this
is scary. Why wouldn't all parties support this completely? Agree?
Mus And someone said these rules should only apply to

(20:30):
young and vulnerable, otherwise they become a tool for draconian censorship.
Focus on twenty one and under. I think this is
I think that's I think one rule for all in
this case. I don't think it matters whether you're twenty
or twenty five. The damage is still incredibly impactful. Right,
Thank you for those texts, keep them rolling. In ninety
two ninety two joining me now is News Talks. They'd
be political editor Jason Walls and Jason, I'm gonna be

(20:52):
honest with you. I think I've triggered people a little
bit this morning by bringing up just Cindra A. Durn's book.
The texts are rolling and thick and fast. I'm wondering,
have you read a different kind of power yet?

Speaker 11 (21:01):
No?

Speaker 12 (21:01):
I haven't.

Speaker 13 (21:02):
I've texted her her people to see if I could
get in a boggled copy, but I didn't end up
hearing back from them. So I'm just gonna have to
wander out to the bookstore this week and buy it
as well. I'm probably going to and just between us Franchester,
I think I'm gonna put it on the company cards
because it is work right, be reading it right?

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, just flick it to me when you're done, Yes,
just needs to do the rounds and things.

Speaker 8 (21:24):
Now.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Look, David Seymour officially took over as Deputy Prime Minister yesterday.
So have we estabilised just how ceremonial the job is?

Speaker 13 (21:34):
Oh, I mean it's pretty ceremonial. The Prime Minister's been
asked about it a few times and he essentially says
it's basically just to sort of stand in for the
Prime Minister when he's overseas or incapacitated, and that kind
of is exactly what it is. However, I think the
job has taken on a little bit of a different
tenor in this iteration of the government, because it's not

(21:55):
just a Grant Robertson taking over who was already a
Labor Party MP. It's somebody from a different party completely,
and so you've got somebody from New Zealand first representing
the WHO government. Now you've got somebody from Act representing
the whole government. So it is quite novel in that respect,
and not in respect to the fact that somebody else
is taking over, because Winston's done that well. I can't

(22:17):
count on one hand how many times he's done that now,
but the fact that they're switching over halfway through is
quite an interesting step. I don't expect it to be
too different. I think Winston actually did quite a good
job of separating New Zealand First Leader and statesman Winston Peters,
and I think it's one of the Prime Minister's great
strengths is actually putting together a coalition where he's been

(22:40):
able to let the minor parties continue to be the
minor parties and not lose all of their sense of identity.
And I think that sets them really up, really well
up for the election next year.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
And look, I get the feeling that, you know, both
Winston and Seymour they understood when they were speaking in
the capacity as the deputy Prime Minister, and then when
they're speaking in the capacity as an emp or, you know,
their party leader. We don't expect them to suddenly become
completely different people, you know, And I think David Seemore
understands there are going to be times when he is
in that ceremonial role that he might be a little

(23:14):
bit more strained. But I don't expect him to change
the way he does politics.

Speaker 13 (23:18):
No, and I think by design he's not going to
because what we've seen in the past is that smaller
parties that gain power in terms of a coalition or
a confidence and supply tend to actually lose a little
bit of support. But we're not really seeing that with
ACT and New Zealand. First they've gone up and down,
but they've been broadly the same, and that's because they've
been allowed to be themselves. I mean, you can't look

(23:40):
at it either Winston or David Seymour and say that
they've sort of moderated their views on things because they're
now statesmen. If anything, they've got more emboldened to actually
have those views because the rep of the constituency that
they're representing. So I wouldn't expect Seymour to change at all.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
This struck me. You've got a company credit card? Who
gave you that?

Speaker 13 (24:01):
Oh, I feel like I've opened up a cad.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
It's taken me a while. I just suddenly win any
on a minute, you got to come anyway.

Speaker 13 (24:08):
Oh, I got quite often for work, so I've got
to be able to buy hotels and then food and things.
So hey, I register all my receipts and everything's above board.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Don't worry the Prime Minister Christopher Likexon's head get another
creak at Wellington Council. But Tory's hit back indeed.

Speaker 13 (24:26):
So he made these comments at an A and Z
breakfast earlier this week where he was asked by somebody
in the audience, I think around the lines of can
you intervene to make sure you can get party politics
out of council. I think he was having a crack
with a crack at Andrew Little and Torri Fano from
the Greens and Labor respective of from Laboring the Greens respectively.

(24:47):
And Luxton hit back by saying, you know, you get
what you're given in terms of the voters of Wellington,
which Tory Faro took as a crack at her. And
then she said she contacted a number of newsrooms who
run round the story saying that he's punching down and
he should he should focus on his own failings and
a few other things like that, and luxon you know,

(25:07):
we tried to ask him about what she had said
about what he had says, and he said, oh, no,
I'm just interested in sort of the governing And what
I was saying is that, you know, if there's only
thirty five percent turnout rate, of course you're not going
to get the best representation that you possibly could. But
it's an interesting beef. It is obviously, you know, the
capital city and the Prime Minister having a bit of fisticuffs,

(25:30):
but it's an interesting one to watch.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Jason Wolves, thank you very much. I'll look forward to
you passing on that book to me. Enjoy the rest
of your week. It is twenty two to Tenure with
News Talks AB.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
The Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks AB.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
It is twenty to ten You're with News Talks ABB.

Speaker 8 (25:52):
Well.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
A trip up Mount Everest buy British climbers has started
a bit of a debate. The group managed to fly
from London Summitt Everest and return home under a week
by using zen on gas. The gas is said to
help climbers quickly a climatize is to high altitude. The
trip has left many people questioning the ethics of using
the gas and asking if one of mountaineering's greatest accomplishments

(26:16):
should be made easier. Lydia Brady has climbed ever six times.
In a nineteen eighty eight, was the first woman to
reach the summit without supplementary oxygen. She joins me now
to discuss love you to have you with us, Lydia,
thank you for your time.

Speaker 14 (26:28):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Hey, what's your position on the use of this xenon gas?
What did you make of this from the British climbers.

Speaker 14 (26:36):
Well, I'm completely happy and interested in the use of
zeno and gas. The ultimate cheat, because it has been
described as a cheat, is of course the use of oxygen,
which I've used, you know, and I like and it
keeps us safe. But you know, to say that the

(26:57):
use a small use of another gas is cheating and
oxygen is not cheating, or some of the other drug
that we use, even trekking to everspace camp like diamocs,
then it doesn't quite make sense.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Some mountaineers in the Nepalese government aren't happy about it.
They've sort of questioned the ethics around that. Do they
have the right to be unhappy?

Speaker 14 (27:23):
Well, I think I mean anyone has a right to
be unhappy, that's fine. And sometimes the people in the
government are not actually mountaineers, so they are responding to
a lot of probably social media and public curiosity. You know,
sometimes people are just curious and it sounds outrageous. So

(27:44):
I have done a little bit of study on it.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I don't want to be too cynical, but do you
think the Nepalese government to worry that if people are
flying in and flying out and been able to do
it very quickly, that the local economy is not going
to benefit from them being there, the sherpas and other
people involved.

Speaker 14 (28:00):
So there's quite that's relevant. And I think you know,
if you're going to go and climb Saga Matha Chongloma
mount Everest, then you still need to have a base
camp which has to be created. You still need to
have equipment ropes on the mountain which are fixed and
carried and fixed by chirpers. So it's a huge cheat

(28:24):
if you like, if you really want to talk about cheating,
and you still need to have camps and gas canisters
and oxygen bottles carried for the summit push and things
like that, all the way up to eight thousand meters.

Speaker 15 (28:38):
So.

Speaker 14 (28:41):
There the work is still there. It's not as much time.
The company that supported these climbers from the UK to
do the seven day ascent of Everest seven days UK
Everest UK. Then they still employ all their staff for

(29:01):
three months.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Okay, right there we go. You've got a lot of
experience in the mountains as a climber, a guide, you're
also a physio. Can you talk me through what the
gas is and how it's been used to help in
a mountaineering sense.

Speaker 14 (29:17):
Okay, So I would just like to qualify that I'm
not a doctor or an a nethetist who would be
much sharper on this than so as a noble gas.
And it exists in very small amounts in the atmosphere.
So it has been an approved anesthetic drug with analgesic
or pain orlieving properties, intduced into clinical practice over seventy

(29:41):
years ago, and the Russians have used it as well,
I think in sports. But some time ago, in twenty fourteen,
it was banned by the World Anti Doping Doping Agency
WIDER for competition. And this is a digression on how
it works. But climbing Everest is of course not regulated

(30:02):
by wider or competition, and many sub stances that we
use on everest a widely a banned by wider such
as dex methodsowe asthmas, spray, diamos, and even oxygen. Okay,
But as far as studies show with zenin, it seems
to cause a temporary increase in EPO or aerythropoiitan, which

(30:26):
is a hormone that stimulates the production of red blood cells.
So red blood cells you know, turn into join with
iron and become hemoglobin and carry oxygen. However, even after
chronic use, which you know, long term use under studies,
it doesn't actually appear to increase or improve athletic performance,

(30:49):
cardiorespiratory fitness, or endurance. So there's the thing. It seems
to increase EPO, but it doesn't do these things that
we think is why these guys climbed it. Ever, since
seven days, it appears that the effect may be primarily
neuro and cardio protect it okay, so it can in

(31:11):
all the studies, it seems that there's sometimes focal and
global you know, small and big helps with preventing brain death,
spinal cord which is your nervous system death, and also
seemed to help in traumatic brain injury. So there's all
the well, there's some of the science wrapped up and
I do have references, but people can go online.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
So could this actually be making it's safer to sum?

Speaker 14 (31:39):
You have totally hit the nail on the head. So
then will let's go back. So my partner has just
come back from running a film team on Everest and
he was working through the same operator, Lucas furten Bark
or furtin Bark Adventures, who supported these three guy, four
guys to do the seven day ascent. And they said

(32:01):
they were just blistering. I mean, they were just going.
They were really really rapid, and but it seemed that
their experience was that they didn't suffer the headaches and
the nausea that you often do when you go to
a new altitude. They felt fantastic.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
So here's the thing. You've still got to be really fit,
You've got to physically be able to climb Everest. This
is just helping you do it without some of those
side effects that we get from high altitude.

Speaker 14 (32:32):
Yes, and let's you've just so you're so yeah, you've
got it so clear. On top of that, many many
people nowadays climbing Everest, and these guys slept and even
trained in hypoxic conditions, So we sometimes use a hypoxic machine.

(32:54):
It doesn't change the air pressure, but sucks out the
oxygen and what we breathe. And we put a plastic
tent over our bed and it's very romantic and aesthetic
and makes a lot of noise and it's pretty much horrible,
but you does and know seriously, but lots of people
are doing this for pray acclimatizing and it does and

(33:14):
that increases your red blood cell count and that increases
your tolerance to high altitude. And these guys had done
a whole lot of that.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
I loved.

Speaker 14 (33:24):
They were really fit. Plus one of them had already
climbed Everest before and two others had high altitude experience
and they or all climbers so they could move on
their crampons.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
This has been fascinating. Thank you so much for talking
us through this. Lydia, that was Lydia Brady there, who
because my first thought was I'm sure you were the same,
was like, oh no, this is cheating, this is making
it easier. We're going to get a whole lot of
people flying in and flying up every rest and doing
this really quickly. But actually the way it's kind of
been presented to me, now you kind of go, actually,
this could be a much safer way for this pretty

(33:55):
dangerous sport, you know, to kind of continue so interesting
stuff there, Can you hear your thoughts? You're most welcome
to text on ninety two ninety two It is eleven
to ten, putting.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Even tough questions to the news the Mic Hosking Breakfast.

Speaker 9 (34:08):
The Ministry of the has been given the directive to
prosecute parents who let their kids attend and suffers Able
Seymour as the Associate Minister of Education.

Speaker 16 (34:15):
What's a prosecution, Well, basically, a school will go to
the Ministry of Education say look, we've got someone that
not a can't, they're a won't. We've tried, we've gone out,
we've engaged with them there basically giving us the middle
finger and saying education is not important and you've got
no right to demand that my kid enrolls and attends
to school. In that case, the Ministry of Education will
weigh it up and if it steps up, and you

(34:35):
can find thirty bucks a day up to three hundred
dollars initially for a repeat offending. The fine on parents
can be three thousand dollars.

Speaker 9 (34:42):
Back Tuesday from six am The Mic Hosking Breakfast with
a Vida, News Talk ZIBB.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Sunday with Style, The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Winkles for the best selection of great Reeds.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
News Talk Zibby.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Indeed the Sun goes out to Chris Bishop, a little
bit of stand walk here, what I kafuffle? That's turned
out to be not the guy probably got given a
free ticket to go to some music awards. Went along
a bit surprised it was political. Don't know why Music's

(35:19):
always been political. Music is all about making a comment
on the politics, culture, society of the day. It's what
it's all about. Anyway, it didn't like it really had
some comments. He should have kept for the uber on
the way home because this wasn't his house. We were
there celebrating not having a moan and things. Anyway, he didn't.
He got caught out. He's apologized, so let's all just
move on. Although notice David Seymour's kind of waited in

(35:41):
and fur Patrol said, look, he's wearing our T shirt,
but we don't agree. In know it's going to carry on.
But anyway that the guy has apologized, I think he
realized that that was not the time of the place.
Is totally entitled to your opinion. That's what artists for.
It's subjective. But maybe when you're there celebrating music and
you're not in your natural habitat, maybe it's just best

(36:02):
to keep those comments for the uber. On the way home, Hey,
thank you for your text. I was talking about, you know,
the abuse that players and refs and sideline reefs and
everybody gets in sport. And I had a text here saying,
years ago, my husband was reefing eight to nine year
olds and got annoyed with one particular woman heckling. He
walked over to her, handed out the whistle and asked
she'd like to do the job. She stepped back, and
from then on she was quiet. I completely agree. You know,

(36:25):
there are parents who just are the ones that constantly
step up. I stepped up to manage. Didn't want to coach.
I don't know how to play football. I hate to
go to courses to learn how to coach football. It
took a lot of time and effort for me to
coach those kids and then have some parents rock up
on the day, give you their opinion from the sideline,
Try and do some reefing, try and do some coaching,
and it's like you want to put the time and

(36:46):
effort in during the week. You were more than entitled
to turn up here. But since you don't lift a
finger and stand on the sideline and be quiet, so
good on your husband. Another one here said my son
from a West Auckland club won the Premier Division six
years in a row. The worst spectator behavior was shown
by the north Shore and the packet hanger. All we're
dobbing in some suburbs here. I sound like I was
slightly traumatized by my coaching refeerring experience. I wasn't. It

(37:09):
was actually really really fun to be involved. I really
did enjoy it for the few years that I did.
This maybe wasn't a natural just between you and I.
It is six to ten.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Edbb Right New Zealand Music a month officially finished yesterday,
but we wanted to keep the live music going for
one more weekend, So joining me next is the fabulous
Mel Parsons. This is her and she's god to join
us for a chat and to play some new music.
She's really well known for her beautiful melancholic songs. But
you know what, in persons, you won't meet a more upbeat, optimistic,

(37:49):
ampy person. Mel and her contradictions are with us. Next,
this is her song carry on.

Speaker 8 (37:57):
Cha Avenue.

Speaker 17 (38:08):
Mnagon Mmm, not than Agon Gary.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
M.

Speaker 17 (38:20):
There's not an agony that's not than I can do,
caby th agony I can do, then I can do carry.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Grabby cover.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Whickles for
the best selection of great ringings.

Speaker 15 (38:59):
US Talks It Beast, Stack it Up, b so Faster start.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Brand new New Zealand music here. This is Brick by
Brick from Littleton based indie folk artist Mel Parsons. We've
been celebrating Kuwei music for the last few weeks. New
Zealand Music Month may have finished yesterday, but we're going
to squeeze in one more live performance for you. On
top of releasing this new single, Mal has been touring
the country. She's now heading off to some gigs in Australia,
but is stopped by the studio.

Speaker 18 (39:38):
First.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Mel Parsons, it's so good to see you. Welcome, thank you.
It's great to be back. Your sixth album Sabotage. It
has been so successful. You came in and visited us
last year and you played Offer Down for us, which
I still have in my mind. It was such a
gorgeous performance. Rolling Stone has said it some of your
best songwriting to date. Is that something you see in

(40:01):
your songwriting? Ah, it's a great question. I don't.

Speaker 19 (40:05):
I kind of don't even I don't think about it,
to be honest, I just I try and keep that site.
I try and keep what other people think and how
they feel about my music as a totally out of
the process. I just do my thing and then and
then if it happens that that music connects with people,
then I'm super stoked.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
So do you I know that you've got four children,
but do you and you wouldn't have a favorite, but
you must have a favorite child or there's the thing.
I know you everyone's got a favorite child, sorry, well
on each on a particular day. I think we have
a favorite child, don't we? But would you do you
have a favorite album?

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Then?

Speaker 15 (40:42):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
That's a good.

Speaker 19 (40:46):
I think honestly, probably my favorite is always the most
recent one, and in the sense that probably because it's
newest to me and it is the thing that is
closest to how I'm feeling at that time. But like
I have, like I really like, you know, I'm really
proud of all the records that we've made. But like
the dry Lands album that came out in twenty fifteen,

(41:06):
ten years ago, can you believe I really love and yeah, no,
but I feel like for some reason, for whatever reason
it is, Sabotage seems to have connected with a lot
of people, and that's it's such a bus It's yeah,
very cool.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So six albums in, have you got this process down?

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Now?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I'm going I think I'm getting better. I think I'm
getting better at the.

Speaker 19 (41:30):
Or whether it's better or not, I don't know, but
I'm getting I'm getting faster at the I'm getting faster
at editing. I'm faster in the process of actually creating,
and in the sense that I know, I get a
feeling and I trust that feeling and I.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Go with it straight away.

Speaker 19 (41:47):
So I'm not I'm not kind of wandering around so
much in the dark anymore, I feel like, So.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
You're not sitting there with the song kind of going,
I can make this work just to really floing a
dead horse exactly.

Speaker 19 (41:57):
Yeah, so I know early on to cut those ones
because if there's something that feels like a dead horse,
then that's what it will be.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I've definitely learned to trust my gut on that intuition.
It has been an independent artist become any easier. I mean,
I'm in an optimist, which is probably why I'm still
doing this as.

Speaker 8 (42:16):
A career all these years later.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I think I think there are things that have probably
become more accessible. There's a lot more, you know, with
you know, the way that our industry has changed.

Speaker 19 (42:28):
Everything's based around streaming and social media and that you know,
it's it's frustrating at times because not everyone loves being
on social media all the time. You know, personally, I
don't love it, but it's just it's just what we
just have to accept that it's part of what we do.
And I think that, you know, in every era of
making and recording and releasing music, there are, you know,

(42:50):
things that are great and things that are really frustrating.
But I feel like, I don't know, honestly, overall, I
just feel lucky that I'm lucky that I am independent
and that I that I have been this whole time.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
And it's interesting the way the industry works now and
the reliance on the streaming services, because there's good and
bad that comes with the streaming service and the way
that artists are treated and things like that. But also
in a way, as you say, it kind of levels
the playing field. I think so too.

Speaker 19 (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely, it is a leveler, and it's sort of
you know, I mean, the big game still still being
played out there. But I think, you know, for artists
like me, like I'm you know, first and foremost, I'm
a touring artist, you know, and I make records and
I really enjoy the whole process. And so for me,
as long as you know, like the streaming is a
big part of it, and we have to you know,

(43:36):
we're always pushing really hard on you know, Spotify and
that kind of end of it. But yeah, I think
it would be really easy to get distracted and to
get kind of down about, you know, or overwhelmed, and
be really easy to get overwhelmed with with how you know,
all the kind of negative possibilities. So for me, I

(43:58):
just kind of I've kind of just worked out I
just stay in my lane, stick to my path. And
I don't know, I put my energy into things that
I joy, So yeah, I try not to get it
too bog down in the in.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
This old stuff. When you say you're a touring artist,
I know you love to play live and people love
seeing you play live. Is that where the real joy
comes from? That's the biggest joy for me? Yeah, I
think it's a.

Speaker 19 (44:23):
You know, and I mean I love writing songs as well,
but I find writing songs, I find it it's really hard.
You know, You've got to really sit down and work
at it. And whereas performing for me is so it's
very natural and it's easy. It's like it's kind of
my zen place. But I think the biggest buzz out
of it is the is the connection with an audience

(44:44):
like does and you know, it sounds kind of trite
to say, but it doesn't matter how big that audience is.
You know, it might be a house concert to thirty people,
or it might be an arena to five thousand people.
But it's that I don't know, it's like an kind
of energy transfer or something. It's a very special kind
of job to be and I guess, you know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, I don't. I don't take that for granted. I
get to do for sure. The song that you're going
to perform for us later is called post high Slide,
which I am just loving. The video for that was
filmed on your tour when you were supporting Crowded House
last year. I mean that must have just been a
little bit of a highlight, right, Yeah, it's definitely bucketless stuff. Yeah,
I mean yeah that too.

Speaker 19 (45:23):
I mean I'm such a I'm a huge fan of
Credit House anyway, you know, so I got to be
side of stage for seven shows, you know, watching just
an absolute masterclass and all the things. So it was, Yeah,
it was amazing, and that the audiences were very kind
to us and the band were you know, they looked
after us so well, and we just had a ball.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
So there's definitely a post I slide after that one,
and let's talk about that even though you're going to
sing the song for us just a moment. I do
love the idea behind this that you know, it's you've
been touring, you've been out there, you're doing what you love,
and then you've got to kind of come home just
grindlun make just the grind of day to day life.

Speaker 19 (46:04):
Absolutely it is because I mean for your touring, you know,
you get, especially like those, you know, the arena shows,
you get this massive adrenaline shot every night and you're
just absolutely buzzing, and it's it's a huge high. You know,
there's no two ways about it, and you do you
come home and then you know, obviously family life is wonderful,
et cetera.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
But it's just such a shift, you know.

Speaker 19 (46:28):
And so but now I think that I'm I'm maturing
in the sense that I because I know to expect it.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I know that that's coming.

Speaker 19 (46:35):
I don't kind of I don't get surprised after a
tour now, you know, when I get home and I'm
a bit flat. Yeah, So I think that's the that's
the kind of the process. It's just accepting that it's
going to be a roller coaster.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
You probably haven't been watching Claxon's Farm. You've probably got
better things to do with your time, watch TV. But
there's a great there was a great moment on there
just recently where Jeremy Claxon was telling one of his
farm hands who'd just come back from a tour and
was been just struggling to settle in a little bit.
And he said, I knew this band. I know this band,
world famous band, and every time they came home from
a world tour, they would rent a house for two

(47:09):
weeks and they would live in it together, and they
would do their own cooking and cleaning and wash their
own clothes before they went back to their homes. Because
if they just walked straight down off a tour and
walked into their own homes, they were just the most
I won't use the word he used, but they were
just arrogant and terrible and horrible to be around. And

(47:29):
so they'd go back and they ground themselves for two weeks.
So they're interesting. I don't know what the band was,
but it's like a reintegration process.

Speaker 19 (47:36):
That is actually I wish I had two weeks at
the end of the tours to do that. I would
be down for that.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I'd be down for that instead of coming home as
grumpy mom. Sell that, you could sell that to the family.
I've come up with an amazing way for me to
come home and be in a better place even a week.

Speaker 19 (47:51):
You know, I'm away for six weeks, and then I'm
going to be away for another week because I've got
to just kind of wind down.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Okay, five days, Yeah, I just negotiate this. Hey, look,
you have released two new songs this year, Brick by
Brick and also post High Slide that you're going to
play for us a little later on. Would it be
fair to say that they might be slightly more upbeat
than normal? Yeah, I know, the great observation.

Speaker 8 (48:11):
They are.

Speaker 19 (48:11):
Yeah, No, they're both they're kind of I was gonna
say party songs. They're definitely not party songs, but they're Yeah.
I think they're a mal Parson parties yeah, true, true, true,
they Yeah, I think a break Bay Breck in particular.
It's pretty lighthearted, you know, and it's and it's fun.
It's really fun to play. It was fun to make,
and it's I think, you know, because I'm fairly well

(48:34):
known for my you know, as a sad songwriter. And
that's and that's still you know, that's the guts of
what I do. You know, I love sad music and
I write sad music.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
But we need it.

Speaker 19 (48:45):
But I think through you know, particularly like in a
show sense, you need the dynamics of you know, I
can't or we doom and gloom so yeah, these ones
are definitely a lot more upbeat.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I find it so intriguing, as you say, this is
what I do. I write sad songs because I love
catching up with you. But you are full of energy,
You're always happy, you know, like you're I know, people,
it's a paradox. People are really Yeah, I know, kind
of conflicted by it.

Speaker 19 (49:12):
But I think, I mean, what I've sort of come
to with it is that I think that the music is,
you know, in writing sad songs, that's my outlet for it,
you know, so it's kind of let freeze me out
to be a happy person.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
So that's my theory. I don't know, I don't know how.
You know, we all find our theory in our therapy
and different ways to walk in the bush or whether
it's writing a sack or writing an a journal law exactly.

Speaker 19 (49:33):
And I meant to be fair, you know, imagine how
much of a sad sack I would be if I
was like that, if I was like my songs, you know,
I would just be.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
You wouldn't want me And here for an interview. Yeah,
break by reculators that you just mentioned. It's a reminder
yourself to start the thing which I think a lot
of us could be reminded of occasionally. Are you a
bit of a procrastinate one hundred percent? Yeah, absolutely, And
I think, yeah, I always have been, and I get.

Speaker 19 (50:01):
Tied up and kind of just in the details, before
you know, clean the house. I'll think that it's not
going to be perfect enough, so I won't start it
quite yet because I'm not quite ready, and I think
that I have.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, that's one. I mean a lot of my.

Speaker 19 (50:15):
Songs are kind of just like a message to myself,
and so this one is literally just me saying, for
goodness sake, sit down, it's not that hard. Just keep
turning up and something will happen, you know. And it's
so simple, you know, there's absolutely nothing profound in there.
But but but for me, it's so I need the
constant reminder, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Okay, So we've had two singles so far this year.
I'm presuming there's more to come. They might might come. Yeah,
well see this is the thing hasn't looked the independent
hourists you've got you can control, Yeah, to hold onto that,
I'll check with. Fair enough, fair enough, Okay, you're going

(50:56):
to perform post high slide for us? Yeah, Okay, let's
start right.

Speaker 8 (51:11):
The post tast slide.

Speaker 20 (51:14):
I know that it's coming, the post task slide.

Speaker 8 (51:18):
Do you take me on this ride? The post i slide.

Speaker 20 (51:24):
I know that it's coming, the post i slide.

Speaker 8 (51:29):
You take me on this ride. I don't want to
talk about it. I don't want to talk about it.
I don't want to talk about it, but I will.

Speaker 21 (51:43):
In the post tast slide, and I know that it
is coming. The post tast slide.

Speaker 8 (51:50):
Do you take me on this ride?

Speaker 20 (51:53):
The post i slide? I know that it is coming,
the post slide.

Speaker 8 (52:00):
You take me on this ride. It'll come and go.
I know it'll come and go hand No, it'll come
and go handa, it will down. We go to Caterlady.

Speaker 17 (52:18):
You ready, you're right here, grinding on, feel on your own,
keep driving, keep driving down we go, Scater.

Speaker 8 (52:27):
Ready, you're ready. You're right here, grinding on along your own. Ready,
you're right here. The post tast slide.

Speaker 21 (52:38):
I know that it is coming, the polls task slide.
You can take me on his ride the post has side.
I know that it's coming post hast side.

Speaker 8 (52:53):
You can take me on his ride.

Speaker 10 (53:09):
Down.

Speaker 8 (53:09):
We got so Kater Ready, you're ready. You right here down.
We got so katlady. You're ready. You right here down.
We got so kat already. You're ready, you right here down,
We got so kat already. You're ready. You're right here.

(53:30):
The post slide. I know that it is coming. Boat slide.
Do you take me on this ride? The poast I slide.
I know that it is coming. The boast has slide.

Speaker 20 (53:47):
You take me on this ride, the boast slide.

Speaker 8 (53:53):
I know that it's coming. The poast tslid. You take
me on this ride, the post hast slide. I know
that it's coming. Me on this road.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Mel Parsons, that was absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much
for coming in and taking the time to sing us
a song. Really appreciate it. Oh my pleasure. Thanks so
much for having me. You can catch Mel Parsons in
Auckland five over sixth June, christ Church Saturday the seventh June.
For more information, head to Melparsons dot com and I
forget the coming up after eleven nutritionist can clear turnbull

(54:33):
as with me. We're going to talk about how we
can end our fight with food and get on with
living well. Entertainment is up next to twenty two past.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Ten Keep it Simple, It's Sunday, the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudgin and Wickles for the best selection of gravers.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
News talks end.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Every year, Wickles invites readers to vote for their three
favorite books to compile the new Wickles Top one hundred.
The list is assembled from the thousands of votes received,
which arranged in order of read a popularity from numbers
one three to one hundred. Voting the twenty twenty five
whit Calls Top one hundred is open now but closes
at midnight tomorrow. You can have your say by going

(55:13):
online to Wickles dot co dot nz or by visiting
any whit Calls store around the country. The new list
will be announced at the end of July. Whick Calls
would love to hear from you. The great thing about
this list is that of thousands of other readers have
loved a book. Chances are you will to so have
your say and tell them about the books that you
want everyone to know about. With books, games, puzzles, gorgeous

(55:35):
stationary toys and the whit Calls Top one hundred, Remember,
voting closes tomorrow. There really is something for everyone at
wit Calls.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 10 (55:46):
Now a good bout Monday writing it Cooy, play in
It anywhere, Sweetsmouth, brush jump Off day school by anything.

Speaker 8 (56:01):
New music from Lord this week. This is Man of
the Year.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
And of course she turned up at the Music Awards,
which was also very exciting, and she performed in a
YMCA toilet. Most excitingly, she did tell us that of
course she will never miss a New Zealand tour, so
she will be back at some point, which is excellent.
Joining me now is Talk Entertainment Steve Neil, editor at
Flex Star coded and ze good morning.

Speaker 22 (56:24):
Good morning. What a night it was on Thursday. Wonderful,
wonderful ceremony, an excellent mood in the room and so
many deserving winners are taking the stage throughout the night.
A real joy to be celebrating the successes of alted
ol music at the Armors this year.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah, no, it was. It looked like an amazing night
and we've spoken to people who've been to it, and
you know, it's really interesting. Genuinely, there is a very
supportive community feel around New Zealand music, you know, and
everybody was there to celebrate, but maybe not quite everybody.

Speaker 22 (56:54):
Yeah, well, the behavior of a senior National Party MP
continues to overshadow the actual kind of good and fun
news of the awards. Unfortunately, social media video, of course
circulating of Chris Bishop taking very verbal exception to elements
of Stan Walker's performance on Thursday night and being told
off by New Zealand music legend Don McGlashan for his

(57:18):
i'd say borish behavior in the room. But the story
that doesn't go away today altered Our Music Awards and
Recorded Music New Zealand have publicly shared a statement they
issued to other media yesterday, just kind of kicking this
along a little bit. They said, yesterday we provided a
statement relating to the actions of one of our guests
at the alted Our Music Awards on Thursday night, and

(57:39):
we wanted to share it with you here. We loved
celebrating all the finalists, winners and our music community at
the event and enjoying the credible performances Mari quite Au
and The statement says the inappropriate comments made by Honorable
Chris Bishop during Stan Walker's performance have no place at
the Alted Our Music Awards. AMA is committed to creating
a safe, respectful and inclusive environment for everyone involved, and

(58:01):
expectations were clearly communicated to all who attended the event.
The awards respect and Honatil Marii, and we were proud
to support stand with his vision for his powerful rendition
of Malory quita a. Like the song itself about sustaining
and perpetuating the Maldi language and Malori culture. It felt
like a very organic celebration and celebrating tetidity feels like

(58:23):
an extension of that. Nothing about that felt like it
was grandstanding in the room. It was notably like I've
been to musical ones that had much more anti government
sentiment coming off the stage. Yes and no, that is
not how it played in the room. So I think
you know, if anyone's thinking that that mister Bishop was

(58:45):
on the receiving end of punches from a lefty music
community on the night, I wouldn't want.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
To be told off by.

Speaker 22 (58:53):
But embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
You can have your opinion. Might not be your favorite
performance of the night, You might not like the way
that other people participated, but actually it's not your house.
You're a guest. Dare I say be better? And actually,
you know, keep your comments to yourself for the uber
home or something.

Speaker 22 (59:11):
I completely agree. I think McGlashan put it much more
succinctly by saying, shut up, dick head.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Okay, all right, there we go. I really want to
get your thoughts on a brand new film which has
just been released on Neon. This is Jesse Armstrong, who
of course is responsible for the TV show Succession, so
many people loved. He has released a satire come black
comedy called Mountainhead. I loved this.

Speaker 22 (59:35):
Now it felt a little bit from the trailer like
Jesse Armstrong was just going back to the Succession genre
and you know, let's get some let's let's make fun
of rich people. Let's let's make them look stupid and
give them some good insults. And maybe I can buy
a new house on my victory lap from Succession. But
it proves to be a lot more than that. The

(59:55):
follows for senior tech executive. Senior tech executives who are
sequestered away in a mountain retreat, playing their kind of knowing,
their sort of marcho games with one another, and as
the world is actually kind of crumbling on the TV
around them through the direct consequences of their own actions.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Love to ras each other, don't they, which is actually
really and.

Speaker 22 (01:00:18):
So the people, the people you'll you're you're encouraged to
consider them being like Elon Musk or Peter Tiel or
Jeff Bezos, and it's very unflattering portrayals of them, but
without being caricatures, like without being directly this is Elon
Musk with his Ketaminius and South African accent, and you're
just encouraged to kind of get to I guess, like

(01:00:38):
the psychological core of what makes the people take and man.
According to Jesse Armstrong, it is not pleasant. No, this
is this is a chilling comedy in places.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I said yesterday when I talked to
Carl Pushman about it, I said, look, to be honest
with you, I found all the bro talk and these
characters who are all desperately pretending they're friends, who clearly
are more kind of collaborators and competitors probably than what
I would call good friends, and I didn't aren't quite
hard to watch because they're also greating, and I didn't
really understand the language they speak about the world, and

(01:01:11):
with the philosophy and an ethics that I.

Speaker 22 (01:01:13):
Think they don't understand. They don't understand what it's like
Mountainheads clearly refers to the fountain Heads. It's appropriating an
ideology that's probably quite familiar now to everyone emanating out
of this ultra rich sphere. But yes, the fact that
they are powerful, stupid but capable, so they're kind of
not the bump. They're not sort of the bumbling execs

(01:01:35):
we see in Succession. I'd like, these are successful people
running successful companies and everything's just kind of abstract.

Speaker 16 (01:01:42):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
But then there's this point in the film where Steve
Carrell's character walks into a glass door, which just felt
so it's sort of randomly human in amongst this film.
And I tell you what, that gig just never never
gets old. And then for me the film kind of
turned into this black comedy and then I was one
hundred percent on board. I just love the absurdity of it.
You know, there is no limit to the agreed and

(01:02:05):
their arrogance and see their forgiveness.

Speaker 22 (01:02:07):
And I think distinguishing it a bit from Succession that
it's got a bit of a theatrical field because it's
kind of these people sequested on one location, so unlike
sort of jumping, you know, jumping around different plot strands,
you really are just stuck in there with these guys.
This is coming to Neon today. Neon has it listed
as a drama. That's probably one way of it's not
driving it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
But it's not a drama, no. And look, I know
you loved it from the get go, but if you
start watching it and you're not one hundred percent sure,
just stick with it because I've totally fell.

Speaker 19 (01:02:35):
In love with that.

Speaker 22 (01:02:35):
Yeah, I think those Jesse Armstrong rhythms. It'll stop feeling
like a succession clone pretty quick and it's it's very
much its own beast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Thank you so much, Steve. Really good to catch up
with you. It is twenty six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Doctor Michelle Dickinson is with us with our science study
of the week and oh, another rather delightful study for
us to do with penguins, and I'm really intrigued. I
had absolutely no idea that they might be helping to
form clouds. This is something totally new I'm learning about
penguins this morning.

Speaker 23 (01:03:14):
You know me, I spend reading the most bizarre research
studies that come out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
We just send you down robot holes.

Speaker 23 (01:03:21):
Don't we And it's hard to pictures one because there
are many. But this week we are talking about a
new study published in the journal Communications Earth and Environment.
It's open source, you can go ahead and read it.
Lovely pictures of penguins in it. But this blew my
mind too. So we used to penguins being these cute
little furry things waidle around on the ice, and we
see pictures of Antarctica and go oh, that's cute. And

(01:03:42):
we know that they are struggling because the changing climate
means that the ice is melting and the fish are less,
and so we know that penguins are struggling out there,
as are many other animals and birds. But this study
is all about penguin pooh, So penguin and pooh because
these penguins eat lots of fish, lots of krill. It's
full of protein, which means it's highly stinky. You can

(01:04:05):
smell penguin poop long way away. It's also very sticky,
and in areas where they breed, they're hanging out in
the same place for a long time, so the poop
is building up and building up and stinking and sticking
together and it forms something called guano, and guano is
like a highly nutrient dense layer of poop basically that

(01:04:26):
stays around even when the penguins leave this breeding site.
And so these researchers in Antarctica started to notice that
where the penguins were breeding often there was a fog
forming right around the penguins. And they're like, that's weird.
What are penguins doing to make this area foggy? And
so they started measuring lots of different things, and they
found that this guano is actually producing ammonia gas, like

(01:04:50):
lots of it, like a thousand times more than there
would be normally in the atmosphere. And this ammonia gas
is reacting with things in the environment, including sulfur containing
gases in the air, and when those two mix, clouds form,
it creates a nucleation where water vapor forms, and lots
of water vapor.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Together is a cloud.

Speaker 23 (01:05:11):
And so what they found is that this dense ammonia
cloud with this sulfur containing gas is creating clouds because
of the poop of the penguins and because the sticky
poos stays even when the penguins have left, these clouds
are forming over this penguin area. Even when there are
no penguins, there is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
That level of ammonia in the ear. Is it good?

Speaker 23 (01:05:35):
It's not great, Okay, but if you're an Antarctica, nothing
else is doing that, so it's interesting from it. Nobody
has really measured ammonia levels in general anyway, never mind
in Antarctica.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
So that was interesting.

Speaker 23 (01:05:47):
But then they got thinking about, well, how will this
reflect the localized climate? Because if you think about clouds
forming over a very specific area when the sun shines,
it might stop the sun warmth getting to the Earth.
But because Antarctica is all ice, antarctica ground actually reflects
a lot of heat back up and so then they go, well,

(01:06:08):
maybe that bounces off these clouds, and then maybe it's
going to create more warming and Antarctica specifically because now
you've got this light bouncing up and down off the
ice in the clouds. They don't know, it hasn't been measured,
but they've gone, are their localized climate effects that could
be bad for penguins because of how the penguins are pooping.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Okay, so we're not entirely sure this is good news
or bed.

Speaker 23 (01:06:27):
No, we don't know, but we do know it's news
and poop is creating clouds.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
You've been too Antarctica?

Speaker 14 (01:06:32):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Heaven? God is one place you haven't been because I
believe that they can smell the penguins before they see them,
because I've.

Speaker 23 (01:06:38):
Been to Kelly, I've been inside. I've been inside the
Antarctica Center at Christchurch and I hang up with the
penguins air and there's only a handle and it stinks,
So not quite Antarctica. But I've been close enough to
a penguin to go, Yes, their poo is horrendous, but yeah,
guano creating clouds really funny, really unique. Never thought about
poos and clouds being connected. And no, we don't know

(01:06:59):
if it's good or bad for the penguins, but we
do know it is no thanks to science.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
And you can find that to study at night to dot.

Speaker 23 (01:07:05):
Com Communication Earth and Environment, which is at nature dot Com.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Jay brilliant, Thank you so much, Michelle. Right, the weather's
been a little bit of fee, hasn't it? Over the
long weekend? I think this calls for Mike's Moroccan beef
family pie. That is up next. It's twenty tw eleven The.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Resident chief Mike vander Olson. Good morning, good morning, Good
to have you with us. How's your long weekend going?

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Quite long?

Speaker 24 (01:07:34):
Quite long.

Speaker 12 (01:07:35):
We we had a massive class yesterday and then we
backed that up with farm shop today, so I'm doing
to our shifts. Used to be a piece of cake
for me, but now I'm fifty two. Holy smokes, they're
getting a bit harder.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Mikey' young young, still you young? You should be able
to handle this.

Speaker 8 (01:07:54):
Wo my ankles cheer And we've got a chair in
the shop.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Can you just get a do it all from a
chair on wheels?

Speaker 18 (01:08:03):
Is a big roll around the place? Yeah, that all good?

Speaker 5 (01:08:07):
All good?

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Do you know what I was thinking to myself? The
weather has been pretty eff he hasn't it a bit
miserable in some parts of the country. And I got
the recipe for Mike's Moroccan beef family pie. Thought you'd
be good to tear into that right now.

Speaker 12 (01:08:18):
Absolutely, we've got farm shop today and I made three
types of pies for farm Shop today, and one of
them was this Moroccan bee family pie. And I thought, ah, oh,
write this recipe out and share it amongst everyone, because
it's pretty.

Speaker 18 (01:08:34):
It's a pretty epic pie.

Speaker 12 (01:08:37):
We kill our own, we raise our own beef here,
and so I'm always using new and clever ways to
use up all that beef because I've got a freezer
full of it, and beef pies, beef family pies are amazing.

Speaker 16 (01:08:50):
Way to use it.

Speaker 12 (01:08:51):
So this does make quite a big pie. So it's
going to feed at least six of you. It uses
half a kiler of dice beef. So for that dice beef,
you could just use any and you know, you could
use top side, you could use skirt steak, any of
those sort of secondary cuts. And what you want to
do is preheat your other to one hundred and eighty
degrees and then I start by placing a tablespoon of

(01:09:14):
fennel seeds onto a tray and fire them into the
oven for about ten minutes or until they start to
become fragrant, and you can start to smell them.

Speaker 18 (01:09:20):
Because those seeds are letting off all those essential oils.

Speaker 12 (01:09:24):
Take a large cast iron pan, chuck that onto your cooker,
and then start to sautet some onions. I've got one onion,
one large onion that's been peeled and sliced and then
into the you've got six closes of garlic that's been
peeled and smash.

Speaker 18 (01:09:36):
Saute those guys off while you start to get a
little bit of color on them. Add in half a
kilo of the dice beef. Crank up the heat. You
want to saute it.

Speaker 12 (01:09:44):
You want color on that beef, color as flavor while
you start to get a little bit of color onto
that beef. And goes those penyl seeds that have been toasted.
A tablespoon of the all important paprika.

Speaker 18 (01:09:55):
You can use two. You can just use sweet paprika
if you want, or if you want to go fancy pants,
you can get some of that smoked paprika.

Speaker 12 (01:10:01):
So a tablespoon of paprika, I chuck in a red chili,
saute that off for another minute, and then it goes
a tablespoon.

Speaker 18 (01:10:08):
Of tomato paste, and then half a liter of beef stock.
Lower the heat. You can put in a little crack
of pepper and some salt in there as well.

Speaker 12 (01:10:15):
Lower the heat, turn that down, and then just cook
that into its tender, or probably take about thirty minutes
for that, and then after thirty minutes I turn it off.
If you've got the time, turner off and just let
it sit, Just allow that beef just to chill down
a little bit and soak up all those delicious flavors.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
And then we add and so the thickening.

Speaker 18 (01:10:32):
For this, Normally I'd use a root, but for this,
I've gone down the road of using arrowroot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
So arrowroot will.

Speaker 12 (01:10:39):
Set your filling mix in a clear, shiny way of
posed to using cornflower. So four tablespoons of an arrowroot,
and then I just take out maybe a ladle of
your brazing liquor that's just cooled down ever so slightly,
mix that with the arrowroot, and then add that back
into your pan, bring it back up to the ball
so that it thickens up.

Speaker 18 (01:10:59):
And then I chuck in a can of chick beers
that have been drained. Set that aside.

Speaker 12 (01:11:03):
That's the pie mix ready to rumble, and then take
a family pie dish or an aluminum tray, whichever you're
going to use.

Speaker 18 (01:11:10):
Line the bottom with.

Speaker 12 (01:11:11):
Some flaky pastry, put in your pie mix, and then
just around that top edge, I just brush that with
an egg wash, and then you put the lid onto
it that connects to that egg washed and egg washes
the glue to keep the top onto the bottom and
then just go around lightly press it and then I
just prack it with a fork.

Speaker 18 (01:11:27):
That just stops it from blowing up.

Speaker 12 (01:11:29):
If there's any excess here inside there As it cooks
and fire it into the oven. You can use your
egg wash on top if you want a nice shiny top.
Maybe finish a little bit of smoke by bricer on top.
That's going to take forty minutes in the oven, and
then once it's cooked you can serve that straight away.
You can also just half that time if you want
to use that later, so you can harve it to

(01:11:49):
twenty minutes at one point eighty pull it out. That
sets the shape of the pie. And then from then
on you can chill it, you can freeze it, and
you can use it in a couple of days.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Can I ask you a really random question about chilies?
Do you go chilies?

Speaker 10 (01:12:04):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
Heats?

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Is there any reason my chili crop from all the
same kind of chili? We had I cooked with one
the other night, and my goodness, we our lips were
on fire. We were on fire. But I haven't had
that with the other ones.

Speaker 18 (01:12:19):
It was it a different type of chili. Well, no,
that's the same chili.

Speaker 24 (01:12:23):
It was the same chili.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Random.

Speaker 18 (01:12:25):
We've got these little.

Speaker 12 (01:12:26):
Tiny ones called sky hot and they are sky hot
sometimes you know they heat the chili is actually in
the white that holds the seeds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Yes, no, no, you're right. And do you know what,
maybe they was just a random one pudding. Maybe I
had Maybe I had a hot one put in with
the normal ones. Thank you so much, Mike. Good to
hear from you. Good from scratch dot co dot inzeed
or newstalk z'b dot co dot in zeed forward slash
Sunday is where you're going to get that recipe from Relax.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
It's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of gray breeds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Used talk z be well this time now and Aaron
O'Hara is with us. Good morning, Good morning. So I've
learned something this morning. I had no idea that women
are more likely to develop autoimmune conditions.

Speaker 25 (01:13:10):
Yeah, we've talked a lot about autoimmune conditions, but actually, yeah,
women are at a much much higher rate of getting
autoimmune conditions. It's estimated about seventy eight percent of people
with auto immune conditions are women, and there's numerous reasons
why that is, but they actually have women have up
to four times increased breast for autoimmune conditions, and a

(01:13:33):
lot of it comes down to sex hormones, and hormones
have a big effect on what triggers off an autoimmune condition. Now,
if you don't know what an autoimmune condition is, it's
when the body's immune system is mistakenly attacking your own
healthy cells and tissue as thinking that it's foreign disease

(01:13:54):
or bacterial or something like that, and so the body's
basically attacking itself. Now, one link that they have found
is the hormones and the effect that hormones have on
your immune Now, estrogen, which is mainly the woman's female hormone,
but actually men do have some estrogen as well, is
known to boost your immune function. So obviously if you

(01:14:16):
have a lot more estrogen in your body, then you
have a higher immune response. But also that it means
that you're more highly likely to get it on autoimmune
condition because you have that extra esogen. And that's where
I'll usually see in my clinic times when people get
autoimmune conditions. Are usually through those times of change with estrogen,

(01:14:39):
so particularly menopause or perimenopause where you've got a lot
more esian fluctuations, then we'll find that these autoimmune switches
will just turn on with that change in estrogen.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
The glory years is what we're going to call it now,
the glory years, the glory years. Absolutely.

Speaker 25 (01:14:56):
The other hormone that actually helps protect you and has
an immune suppressive or lowering immune function is actually testosterone.
So that's where men's rest is slightly lower because they
are more testosterone dominant as men and women have a
much lower amount of testosterone.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Okay, so how can women reduce the risk of developing
an autoimmune condition?

Speaker 14 (01:15:19):
Then?

Speaker 25 (01:15:19):
I think sometimes it's about knowing if you do have
genetic history in your family of autoimmune conditions. I am
one of them and actually been a little bit more
proactive of knowing that you're actually at a higher risk.
But also, anti inflammatory diet's really really helpful, so if
you don't know what that is, eating more fruits and vegetables,
so getting lots of antioxidants in there as well as

(01:15:42):
anti inflammatory foods like more fish and fish or wheel
good fats like nazieds avocado.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Mediterranean diets often been described as a good one at
anti inflamatory.

Speaker 25 (01:15:53):
Diet, a nice easy way of describing it. Yep, anti
inflammatory diet is basically Mediterranean diet. Also considering your gut,
how there's a big link between gart and autoimmune as well,
so looking about what you're eating and getting more prebiotic foods,
so a range of those foods from fermented foods, soukraut, yoga,

(01:16:16):
all those things are so good for the gut as
well as lots of fiber, so different types of fruits
and vegetables, nuts and seeds. Looking at your exercise, so
maybe keeping it sort of more low intensity, also working
out a bit of strength, not overs genuous, and not
getting into running super marathons or ultramarathons. Maybe not the
best for you if you are at a higher risk

(01:16:38):
of hitting autoimmune and managing your stress because stress can
also be a big trigger for setting off an autoimmune
condition as well, So it's always about keeping that balance.
And then for women in particular, managing esigen levels. So
looking after yourself as specially through those times of hormone changes,
particularly perimenopause.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Erin thank you so much appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
The Sunday Session Full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered My Newstalks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Claire Turnbull has reputation for practical, evidence based advice when
it comes to eating well. She's had her own difficult
relationship with food, and she knows how challenging can be
when you're striving to do all those right things but
you feel like you're constantly failing. So she's written a
book filled with fabulous tips to help us all understand
what true health really looks like. It is not just

(01:17:30):
another diet book. It is a roadmap to real well
being and clear Turnbull is going to be with us next.
We're going to finish the hour with a little bit
of Lady six.

Speaker 24 (01:17:39):
Spectually, It's Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkins and Wiggles for
the best Election of great Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Used talk set be.

Speaker 8 (01:18:06):
Good Morning.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
This is a Sunday Session coming up this hour. Jason
Pine on the final round of Super Rugby. Meghan has
some travel hacks on how to find the hidden gems
that only locals know about when you travel, and Joe
McKenzie on David Attenborough and Colin Butckfield's new.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Book Ocean for Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Right Sick of the diets that don't work, the constant
fads that fail you, Well, You're not alone. Nutritionist and
founder of Mission Nutrition gets it, and she's here to help.
The Clear Turnbull herself struggles with food, with her body
and with her mental health over twenty years. Using her
own personal experience as well as her expert knowledge, she's
created a guideline to true, lasting wellness. Claire's new book

(01:18:48):
is called End Your Fight with Food. It's ours this week.
Clear Turnbull is with me in the studio. Good morning,
good morning, hang on, let me turn that on. There
you go, pop it on. Tell me first of all,
Claire and we have spoken about this on the podcast
that we did to Get the Little Things. But how

(01:19:09):
easy has it been opening up in talking about your life,
in your difficult relationship with food?

Speaker 26 (01:19:15):
Do you know the weirdest thing I was actually find
about writing it for other people to read it was
my mum. That was really challenging because, like many people
of my generation, we grew up with our parents or
particularly mothers, on diets, weighing food, calorie count it's kind
of normal. It was normal to shame bodies that would
look different. It was really normal if you didn't fit in.

(01:19:37):
And then there was all the things around finishing everything
on on your plate, and you know, all those food
rules that existed as we kind of grew up, and
that played its part into my own struggles with yo yo, dieting, binging,
all of these different things. And you know, obviously I
knew I had to share the story of what happened
with her. She I didn't want her to feel any

(01:19:59):
blame for that. But actually, where we've got to with
it is after her crying a couple of times reading
the book, realizing that what she has been through, what
I've been through is so similar to other people. This
is actually, you know, by sharing that journey, we can
stop the pain or help other people who've been through
very similar experiences.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
You went through restrictive eating, to binging to bulimia over
decades of your life, which might surprise some people.

Speaker 26 (01:20:28):
Yeah, I so, I mean my first I first started
dieting when I was nine, So I went to weight
watches with my mom.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
You know, she was not not for me, but I was.

Speaker 26 (01:20:38):
My dad was working, so I kind of went along
with the meetings, and I was just supposed to be listening,
you know, like do doing my own thing, but you're
just absorbing all this this stuff. And I picked up
a diet book and that's just the beginning of when
it all went wrong, you know. And I think this
is the thing you know that I see day and
day out in my job that I've done for twenty

(01:20:58):
years now, is people with good intentions start following some
kind of plan or some rules or cutting this out
or trying to restrict in some way, trying to look
at themselves and be healthy. But then, like for me,
it ends up with binging or feeling like you're out
of control and regaining weight that you lost and it's
just all really really messy and you end up feeling

(01:21:20):
disappointed and hating yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
And look, that hasn't changed. It's just the we we're
influenced or who influence us has changed. So you know,
these days, young people they only have to look online
to know that they are not good enough, that they
don't want right, that they don't you know that it's
not about your mum and what she was doing any wow,
it might still.

Speaker 26 (01:21:41):
Be yes, I mean, yeah, absolutely like, the people that
you live with have a big influence on the way
that you eat.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
But you're it's worse now.

Speaker 26 (01:21:47):
It's worse now than it was for me because back then,
you know, it was coming from one or two sources.
Now it is everything from everywhere, every where. And one
of the key things that I you know, with the
people that I work with and work with over the years,
is if you've got kids, or if you've got grandkids
or you know, in the house and you're trying to
help them have a healthy relationship with food and stop

(01:22:09):
them from getting into the dieting things and following the
TikTok Instagram trends, you have to sort yourself out first,
because they're watching you, Like if you have got a
disregulated relationship with yourself and your body and you're just
saying to them, oh, be more balanced, Like you know,
they can see what you're doing, they listen, and they
learn from what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
What impact do you hope sharing your story now is
going to hit on others?

Speaker 26 (01:22:34):
I just want people to stop fighting with themselves, right, Like,
so much of what fuels people's mental health challenges is
the conversation that they have with themselves. About themselves. And
when people try to eat better, exercise more, drink less,
you know, live a healthier lifestyle, and then the approach

(01:22:57):
they have doesn't work. What happens is they get annoyed
with themselves. Oh I just needed to have more will power,
I needed to try harder. I'm the problem, and that
self sabotage, that self hatred, actually fuels the problem, because
what do you do sot it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
I'm going to drink something, I'm going to eat the doughnut.
I'm going to do the thing. It's not worth it.

Speaker 26 (01:23:19):
And when you erode your self worth, you know, that
has its own massive impact on your well being.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
How do we get it into our heads that the
diet culture and the diet approach is designed to fail
to fail. It's so well, you know, we kind of
all deep down know it. We do, but you'll still
get swayed by someone who tells you this work for me,
or that work.

Speaker 26 (01:23:44):
For me, or you know, I mean, the evidence always
speaks for itself. All of the research shows that when
people go on restrictive diets that they end up regaining
the weight. Right, we kind of know this thing. I
think it's kind of changing the approach to taking care
of yourself and actually looking at the influence that on you,
your friends, the people around you. It's about adding positive

(01:24:06):
things into your life rather than always taking things away.
So the book very much focuses on when it comes
to what you eat, what can you add in to
nourish yourself to make yourself feel better, Because what that
does is it ends up. If you're eating foods that
are nourishing and make you feel good, you don't want

(01:24:27):
so much of the sugary, salty stuff, and you're coming
at it from a different angle. We also need to
give ourselves a permission to eat. If you tell yourself
you'll never allowed chocolate, cakes, wine, whatever it is, that
what happens like people just crave it more and then
they feel guilt and shame when they have it. It
doesn't help anybody, and we just need to take a

(01:24:49):
new approach that's a little bit more self compassionate. So
we blame ourselves a lot for our unhelpful behavior. And
I love the way you take the words good in
bed and you replace them with helpful and unhelpful in
the book.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
I like that it softens it a little bit. But
we blame ourselves a lot for our and helpful behavior
around food. It's important for us to understand what's behind
it behavior, isn't it for us to move forward.

Speaker 26 (01:25:15):
One hundred percent? So one of the analogies that I
use is like you can if you've got a house,
and you can just paint the outside and make the
house look pretty, and then you're like, oh, I've kind
of like made the house look it's great, but you
actually if there is a storm and the foundations aren't solid,
the house will crack and fall down.

Speaker 5 (01:25:35):
Right.

Speaker 26 (01:25:35):
So one of the things that we do often with
changing the way that we eat is we kind of
follow something that's going to make us look better or
look different on the outside.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
But to actually.

Speaker 26 (01:25:45):
Rewire the way that you are, rewire the way that
you eat, you've got to look at what's actually driving
your eating behaviors. So how you ate as a child,
how you were taught to feel about your body, and
how you look growing up and from the messages that
we see all affect how you feel about yourself and
the choices that you make. So in the book, I
talk about really exploring who you are, why you do

(01:26:08):
what you do, from a place of non judgment.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
So what do you believe? What are your values? What
do you think?

Speaker 26 (01:26:14):
How do you manage your thoughts? What are your emotions?
If we can understand a bit more about ourselves, we
are then in a position to change based on who
we are, because that's what doesn't work. Following a list
of rules doesn't solve the fact that you might be
a person that always rewards yourself with foods or always
always drink when you're stressed.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
Right, it doesn't here, But it doesn't help when something
difficult and it happens in the day. No, and it
always will and there's always going to be a capitalis
is always going to be there's And I think the
things with food and alcohol, they are crutches for feelings
that are very challenging. And the world is busy, it's noisy,
it's complicated, it's more stressful, or it feels more stressful

(01:26:55):
to a lot of people than ever.

Speaker 26 (01:26:57):
And the crutch of you know, readily available tasty food
and alcohol as well are problematic because they're so easily
and so accessible, and then we feel bad for not
being able to control ourselves, and then so goes on
the cycle of judgment and shame.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
So once you've done their work. Is it quite easy
to reprogram those unhelpful hibbitts, those bad hipbots.

Speaker 26 (01:27:19):
It's not easy, but it is absolutely achievable with consistent
kind of results. Like, it's not nothing if you have
eaten a certain way for twenty thirty, forty fifty years
and you have got certain patterns about eating. I'm not
going to lie and say like, you know, oh, you know,
in six weeks, this book's going to like you're going
to be completed, Like that's I would be lying in

(01:27:41):
saying that, because you can't change behavior that quickly. But
if you are consistent and you know you've got a
pattern that can work forward, you can absolutely change.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
And that is what I did.

Speaker 26 (01:27:51):
I have gone from being a person that used to
eat three family sized bags of maltesers leters of ice
cream to being able to literally bite a chocolate, put
it and be like we don't really like that, or
give it away, or like eat one chocolate at a time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
I never believe that was possible. Cravings are interesting, though,
aren't they they really? So it took me ten days, yes,
and I managed to kick the sugar craving. Yeah, and
there will be different sotal times. Well, I'll think about it,
but I've been able to then think about something else
to strike myself and move forward. Their craving's gone, actually
didn't exist. Yeah, the craving is really interesting though, isn't it.

Speaker 26 (01:28:23):
Yeah, they come from and having work, you can you
can get some you actually, so you can get some
quick wins here with with some of the strategies that
I've got like that, like if you are number one
with cravings when people are not sleeping properly, or your
hormones that regulate your reppetite are just completely out of whack.
So for people that struggle with food cravings or alcohol,

(01:28:44):
sleep is a huge part of that. But also understanding
that your brain likes consistent patterns, and part of what
drives food cravings or cravings for alcohol is when you
are eating or drinking that food at a particular the
same time every day. Classic time for most people is
after dinner, right, You eat after dinner when you get
home from dinner, while making Yeah, and that those kind

(01:29:07):
of times, And what happens is you just walk into
the kitchen, you're hungry, and your brain goes, oh, this
is when we eat the biscuits and it basically takes
you through that pattern without you even consciously going to
the biscuits in or picking up the cheese and crackers
or whatever. And that's what the craving is. It's actually
your brain trying to push you towards something that it
thinks is familiar, because the brain doesn't understand the difference

(01:29:29):
between something that's helping you and something that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
So that's what you know.

Speaker 26 (01:29:33):
There's a lot of kind of brain awareness and patterns
in the book that help people to understand and when
you understand yourself awareness, as I talk about, is the
first stage of change.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
There's a really amazing chap during here all about nourishment,
and I'm going to be honest with you, page one
hundreds and seventy four, where you've got your little dad,
your little chat. I'm like, I'm just going to photocopy
that and give it to you, remember of my family,
and go job done. Like there's some really fantastic, simple
kind of advice is to how to eat well, but
not just then. This is what I really love about

(01:30:03):
the book is beautiful because it's filled with positivity and possibility.
But you don't just cover food. You talk about all
the things that contribute to our well being, our stress management,
our sleep, our relationships. Everything's covered in here, isn't it,
Because actually being healthy isn't just about going gosh, I
look hot in the mirror.

Speaker 26 (01:30:23):
You're sorry, you can't cover something, but you can't look
at you can't look at how them while being in
isolation at all. And to your point, all of those
things play a part, because again, what I've seen over
and over again is that people think, oh, when I
fit into those pair of genes, when I look different,
I will be happy. That is not always the case,
or not often the case in a lot of times,

(01:30:44):
because if your relationships are broken, if you feel bad
about yourself, even if you look different in the mirror,
people don't love themselves just because they're in a smaller
pair of gene If.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
You're still not sleeping and you're really tired, yes, you're
not going to handle life well.

Speaker 26 (01:30:55):
You know you don't feel like your life has meaning
and purpose, So all of those things matter.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
It's a fabulous book, Clear, Thank you very much for
sharing your story for all the great advice.

Speaker 6 (01:31:05):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
Claire's new book, End Your Fight with Food is instores
this week as I mentioned earlier did a great podcast
episode with Clear last year on the Little Things. You
can get that at iHeartRadio where ever you get your podcasts.
If you want to hear more about Claire's story and
more on this topic. It is twenty past eleven News
Talks at b.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of Greg Breaths news talks.

Speaker 14 (01:31:37):
Ed be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
Joining me now for the panel here on the Sunday Session.
We've got News Talks edbes Roman Travis, good morning, Good lord.

Speaker 7 (01:31:47):
You're looking glorious this morning. You really are like a supermodel.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
I'm not is it ai or are you real? Sunday morning?
A right, it's Sunday morning. I always look a bit
rough on a Sunday.

Speaker 7 (01:31:57):
Super goodous.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Oh you being very sweet. And Nadine Higgins is joining us,
host of the Prosperity Project. How are you, Nadine?

Speaker 6 (01:32:04):
I am well, thank you, well.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Apparently amazing glowing.

Speaker 7 (01:32:10):
You're looking good too, by the way, See.

Speaker 6 (01:32:13):
I know that's a lie because I've got a ten
week old baby, and so my congratulations. Thank you thank
you and a toddlers. So I'm a busy girl, and
so how I look is it's not high on my
list of priorities exciting times.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
Now, Look, this morning we had a conversation about deep
fakes AI sexually explicit deep fakes, and I'm hugely concerned
about this. I have been watching the way sort of
technology is just flying ahead, and we are you know,
the US is dealing with this, the UK are dealing
with it, and we just sort of sit here twiddling

(01:32:50):
our thumbs, going, yeah, we probably should kind of include
this and make this illegal and give some validation to
victims and maybe give them some support at some point,
but let's just think about it for a little bit longer.
If technology keeps rocking on Roman and I just think
that this is I mean, it's not often I actually
agree with an Act principle, sorry, an Act sort of policy,
but I think that we just need to move on this.

Speaker 7 (01:33:10):
I think you're right. I think we need to have
ahkoy on this at some point, with the act party
out the front. But I often get requests for nude shots,
and as the host of in my day, I'm very
happy to send out nude shots because I need to
pay a mortgage off. I've got a leaky building, so
any money at all, I'd love to see what I
look like deep faked. But I also think more seriously

(01:33:31):
that the internet is an unleashed dog. Try and rain
that one and write, how the heck do you control
something that's uncontrollable?

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
Definitely, but I don't. And look, I don't know whether
by actually closing up this loophole Nadine and making it
clear that the deep fakes are also illegal and it's
not acceptable behavior within society, whether the police are going
to be able to do anything about it. But what
I really do like was the fact that act MP
Laura mcclurcy. We've also got to provide support for the

(01:34:01):
people who are victims. And that's where I go, Yes,
let's step up and make sure putting the right mental
health care in place for these people.

Speaker 6 (01:34:09):
Oh absolutely, I don't think it's necessarily going to change
things overnight, But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be illegal,
you know, like it's illegal to murder people, and people
still do it, but there has to be a course
of action to try and prosecute the perpetrators and also
just to make the stance that this is wrong, you know,
because it is. It's just an extension to me of

(01:34:31):
your body, my choice. You know, it's all well and
good to kind of, you know, do it to yourself,
but when someone else is doing it to you, that
is a form of abuse. And so we absolutely need
I mean, it's so telling that even the Trump administration,
which doesn't exactly have a great history of standing up
for the rights of women in particular, they've moved on this.

(01:34:54):
We are so behind the times.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Do you think this should be a member's ability Do
you think that every I mean, I don't think this
is even I don't think politics needs to get involved.

Speaker 7 (01:35:01):
I'd reallyize do you know what the very fact that
certain politicians are saying, oh, that's not something, we're fokistan
or you know, they're just idiots, because this is incredibly important.
People's privacy is all you actually have when you close
your door at home, when you sit there in your
underpants watching Netflix or whatever, that's your only privacy, right,
So when someone's extorting that in Nadine, and you know,

(01:35:22):
I just think you'd be it's super slimy and creepy.
But I do go back to the point that you
try and rain this in the Internet. People who are
posting wacky, whack whack job stuff, they're doing it behind
all sorts of different walls, and you can't find them.
They're all, you know, bald toothless Russians sitting in their dirty,
old holy singlet in Moscow, pretending that they're twenty five
year old supermodels.

Speaker 6 (01:35:44):
I hear you, but I think that there are also
teenagers in New Zealand that are doing this. And so
just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try. And
as I understand it, this is a very simple amendment
to maybe two acts of just inserting a couple of lines.
So come on, it's not that hard.

Speaker 19 (01:36:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:36:02):
The other point that Francesca made, and it really it's
rang a bell in my head. Department mental Health, good
luck with getting any more money for mental health or
addressing people's needs, because at the moment we've got streets filled.
Marsterton has homeless people. For God's sake, You look at
big cities with homeless people, all sorts of mental health issues,
and we've got governments successively who don't.

Speaker 24 (01:36:23):
Yeah, absolutely a.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Bit A simple step there is that acc currently provides
or pays for therapy for sexual abuse victims. And I
don't see why that can't be extended here because that's
actually what's happened. So you know, there's a pretty simple
move there to extend that.

Speaker 7 (01:36:39):
And they've got lots of money.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
Sure you've got to go, yeah, sure you've got to
go and find therapists, which are a little bit short
on the ground at the moment. But there is a
pretty simple as Nadine said, it's a couple of lines
in an act and just making sure that there's some
support there for people.

Speaker 7 (01:36:54):
Yeah, and you know, but don't you both find it
absolutely obscene And I mean that quite seriously too, that
politicians are dithering on it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
I mean took many years. I mean how many years
did it take for a government find and go, let's
not have phones in schools. Most schools had decided a
long time ago, we're not having phones in the classroom.
I mean, you know, all that was just my thought
on it. But it looks good and it sounds good,
doesn't it now. I'd like to see them jump up
on this one too. Hey, Nadine, I want to run
something past you this morning. I just made a comment

(01:37:27):
about the book, the fact that just into Ardun's book
is coming out this week of the third of June,
and she has done some selected media and her first
very long form interview was with The Guardian, and I
was kind of making I sort of read out a
few of the comments that she'd made and her thoughts
on why she left and dealing with the pandemic and
things like that. We were inundated with texts of people saying,

(01:37:52):
I am triggered, you know, this is this is you
know too much for me. You know, I don't think
she can never live here again, and things like that,
and I was I was a little bit surprised. I
wondered whether we'd moved on a little bit. Do you
find her triggering?

Speaker 6 (01:38:09):
Absolutely not, whether or not you agree with her politics.
She was a leader during a very unusual time in
our history where an awful lot happened, and I think
she dealt with it in the best way she thought.
And that's all you can ask our leaders to do.
And if we're going to cast them out of the

(01:38:30):
country because we don't agree with the decisions that they make,
we're going to find it really hard to get good
quality people to actually go into politics. So I think
if you're triggered, you know, maybe seek out some counseling.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
I wonder, though, Roman, whether she feels she can come
back and live here calmly and quietly in New Zealand.

Speaker 7 (01:38:52):
Just remember that, you know, the barking, misogynist, mad dog
stuff that you're reading on the text machine, that's a
very small percentage of New Zealand. No world leader was
liked through the pandemic. What a heck of a hospital
passed that was? And you know, the things that people
focus on are she destroyed the country forgetting that the
national government were campaigning for bigger wage subsidies. So you know,

(01:39:16):
whether you like her or not, whether you want to
read her book or not, I don't really care. But
you know, rained in focus on the policy, not the person,
play the ball, not the player whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:39:26):
Well, and the other thing is we don't know what
the counterfactual was, right, We don't know what the outcome
would have been if we had had a government of
a different flavor in power during the pandemic. Would it
have been better, would it have been worse? Would we
have had twenty thousand deaths? Like you know, the hypothesis was,
would we have had even more debt?

Speaker 24 (01:39:44):
Who knows?

Speaker 6 (01:39:46):
I think we have to It happened, and she is
well within her rights to talk about it. It's time
we all moved on.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
She speaks in the book about how she was in
a I think in a Oh gosh, she was washing
her hands. She was in the toilets at Orgando Airport
and a woman came up and leaned in. She was
so close that Ardoun could feel the heat from her
skin and just what you said. I just wanted to
say thank you. The woman said thanks for ruining the country,
and she turned and left Ardurn standing there as if

(01:40:13):
I was a high schooler who'd just been raised. So
this is Desindra Adun talking about experience she had with
somebody in New Zealand. I do wonder whether times have changed.
And gosh, we're talking about this morning as well, the
fact that people think it's perfectly fine to abuse refs
and sideline refs and coaches and plays. Have we lost

(01:40:34):
our ability to do exactly what you said, Roman, to
actually step back and separate the person from the policy
and just be a little bit more rational when it
comes to how we react.

Speaker 7 (01:40:44):
There's not a lot of objectivity anymore, because going back
to the Internet, it gives you the ability to be
I can be Barry Soper, I can be anyone I want.
I can be a commentator. I've got a following of
thirteen people who all agree with me because I've turned
into a misogynist pig. And let's be honest, some women
have turned into misogynist pigs as well, because there's this
outpouring of hatred towards someone who has given the job

(01:41:06):
that we elected her to do. The majority did to
run the country through an absolutely shitty time. Right, So
you know, I'm not going to read the book. Do
I dislike it?

Speaker 14 (01:41:15):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:41:15):
Do I even know? No, I wouldn't want to have
been the leader through the pandemic, though Nadine would have
done a good job.

Speaker 13 (01:41:23):
I don't think so.

Speaker 6 (01:41:24):
I wouldn't have done a good job. But I do
find that her narrative around the fact that you can
still be a leader of whatever flavor and be a
sensitive person. I find that quite reassuring. I have to
be honest, and also, given the aforementioned two small children,
I have a huge amount of respect for the fact
that she managed to do all that while raising a child.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
Yeah, Nadine Higgins, thank you so much for your time
this morning. Roman travers these consensual nudes that they have
prepared to sell. What do you think they're worth?

Speaker 7 (01:41:57):
Oh, look, I think they're worth thousands, But like nineteen
ninety five for a series of six, if you're into it,
you know, got to pay for the broccoli and cheese somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
And that's gracious. Thank you both so much. It is
twenty six to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
Jason Pine is coming up at midday with weekend Sports
and he joins me, now, good morning, good morning, good
to have you with us. Gosh, what a night last night.
The Blues decided to come out and play like the
Blues for what felt like the first time this season.

Speaker 27 (01:42:34):
Yep, yep they did, and the Hurricanes followed that up
with sixty points over the top of Mana PACIFICA. Look,
I'm pleased for the Blues.

Speaker 3 (01:42:41):
You know they're there.

Speaker 27 (01:42:42):
They haven't really impressed us too much as defending champions
in twenty twenty five, but here we are with only
six teams left and they're one of them. So they
did what they needed to do beat the Warratars and
they take a bit of momentum into the first week
of the playoffs. They'll face the Chiefs in Hamilton. That
is tough, really tough.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
Yep.

Speaker 27 (01:43:00):
Yeah, So look, they'll have their work cut out, but
they're there, which you can't be said for the likes
of Mona Pacific, who just incidentally we need to acknowledge
for their terrific season and the way they played oh
so good and the following that they have garnered. You know,
there were twenty thousand there last night at sky Stadium,
and I reckon at least a third of them were
cheering from Wana Pacificus. So it was an awesome occasion.

(01:43:23):
They've they've really put pride in that jersey and you know,
I think most people, as I said to you yesterday
friend Chessco, would have quite liked to have seen them
in the top six, not to be the Crusaders got
their okay, I think you know there It seems odd
to say it, but they're a bit of a dark horse,
the Crusaders. You know, they've got a reputation and a
history of winning at this time of the year. They
had a terrible season last last time out, but they've

(01:43:46):
bounced back so they're there. The Hurricanes of course will
be there as well, so four New Zealand sides in
the top six, so we wait to see what happens
next weekend and how many of them progress. Okay, when
he got on the show's day, but a rugby league
The Warriors play later on today, Yes, looking forward to that.
They of course had their winning streaks snapped a week
ago by the Canberra Raiders, so they'll be going to

(01:44:09):
bounce back against rabbit Os this afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
Liam Lawson.

Speaker 27 (01:44:11):
Bit of a disappointing qualifying session at the Spanish Grand Prix.
We'll cover that off French Tennis Open, but of US sport, Yeah, other.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Things as well, gooth on this weekend, isn't that?

Speaker 24 (01:44:21):
Yes?

Speaker 27 (01:44:21):
Indeed, Lire your co of course taking part in the
in the US Open, the only major she hasn't won,
so we'll track her progress as well. Look, there's always
a bit on over a long weekend, Franchis, I reckon
we'll fill the show up.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
Okay, I think you'll de absolutely fine. What happened this
morning at the Spanish grond Prix with them Lawson, he's thirteenth,
isn't he.

Speaker 27 (01:44:40):
Yeah, he was really good in practice. He was top
ten each of the three practice sessions. He just had
a couple of issues with his tires. Apparently very hot
in Barcelona at this time of the year, and you know,
so you've got to manage your ties quite quite carefully.
We'll get more of an in depth unpacking of this
after two o'clock with somebody who knows a lot more

(01:45:02):
about this than me, Chris Medland, who was in Barcelona,
if one journalist. But yeah, look he starts thirt ink
he'll be disappointed. But Barcelona does offer quite a few
passing opportunities. So hopefully Liam and can in they get
your elbows out in Formula one terms. Hopeully you can
get his elbows out, not out of the car, no,
but yeah, but no not literally, and move up the

(01:45:23):
field a bit and maybe get some more points tomorrow morning.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
Here's hoping right, sounds like an action pack show. Jason
looking forward to it. Jason Pine will be with you
at midday. Coming up next, we've got Meghan Singleton, who's
got the best travel tip to find hidden gems in
your destination. It is twenty to twelve It's.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
A Sunday session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News.

Speaker 3 (01:45:45):
Talks, AB Travel with Windy Woo Tours Where the World.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Is Yours for Now, and Meghan Singleton, our travel correspondent,
joins us. Now, good morning, good morning, good to have
you with us. I like what you're going to talk
about today, because you know what, I always get a
bit of a panic on when I'm going somewhere new
about how I'm really going to get a sense of
the place if I've only got three or four days,

(01:46:10):
and how am I going to really kind of, you know,
get out of what it would be like to live
in Hong Kong or Barcelona really as you might be going,
you know, I want to have that real experience and
find these amazing spots and places and things.

Speaker 4 (01:46:24):
Yeah, yes, yes, like what's the latest bar that's just opened,
or where's it where's the best outdoor music venue or something.
I've just written up this post my best ever tip
to finding hidden gems, and this is what I've been
doing for a while now, And to be honest, I

(01:46:45):
even use this tip to update my blog content because
I can't be everywhere across everything.

Speaker 14 (01:46:51):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
It's it's it's alarming to say.

Speaker 4 (01:46:53):
So what I do is just to cut a long
story short, because I know we don't have all day.
Is I've got my questions because I'm heading over to
New York, for example, is the Staten Island very worth taking?

Speaker 14 (01:47:05):
You know?

Speaker 11 (01:47:05):
How am I going to that?

Speaker 14 (01:47:06):
Out?

Speaker 4 (01:47:07):
I go to Facebook and I join pages or groups
that are related to the destination I'm going to. So
there are, for New York, for example, there are lots
of different Facebook groups. So then I choose a group
that's got like one hundred thousand members or at least
tens of thousands. And then what you do is you
go to the search a little icon on those Facebook

(01:47:29):
pages and you type in Staten Island ferry or where
to have my fiftieth birthday dinner or something like that.
And if you don't find the answers already there, because
usually people have asked those questions before, you can, then
go ahead and just ask that question. And honestly, you
will get so many great responses from locals, from people

(01:47:51):
who are there right now, from people who are there
last week, from people who just said, oh, we just
sat on the rooftop of this place over in Brooklyn
had the most amazing skyline view, and it would be
someplace you never would have found without this little intel
from the local Facebook group.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
So then is the key though, making sure it's run
by locals, it's not some kind of tourist driven Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:48:15):
Yeah, and most of them are, and or they might
be run by like the ones that I follow, like
they might be run by companies that take walking tours,
for example, So of course they want to try and
sell you a tour, but there's one hundred thousand people,
so they don't. There's lots of comments on there, and
you can of course go ahead and say, yep, that
sounds great, I'd like to book your walking photography tour.

Speaker 8 (01:48:37):
That's a bit of me.

Speaker 4 (01:48:38):
And so often they are like, I run a few pages,
and ultimately they'll be like, oh, I hope that they
might join me on a tour, or I hope that
they might read some of my content if they do ask.
But generally speaking, the more people that are on there,
the better engagement you're going to get, and that's what
people are all after.

Speaker 24 (01:48:56):
You see.

Speaker 4 (01:48:57):
So yeah, so what they won't The Facebook pages won't
be run by tourist boards, but they will likely be
run by people who have some capacity in the tourism industry,
so they're knowledgeable.

Speaker 2 (01:49:07):
So what's some of the best sort of advice that
you've been given the places you've traveled to.

Speaker 24 (01:49:12):
Well, I use them for my tours.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
So I've got a tour coming up to Thailand right
in July, and we're going to go to Bangkok and
then we're going to go to Kosamui.

Speaker 11 (01:49:20):
So I want to know, I've only got four nights
in each.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Where are we going to go for dinner? So I'm
particularly looking for at Kosamui where to go for dinner
with great views? And that's what I'm looking through on
the Kosamii pages that I'm now part of.

Speaker 8 (01:49:33):
So this is great.

Speaker 14 (01:49:34):
So then I write it down.

Speaker 4 (01:49:35):
I opened a little note on my phone and I
write down the names of these restaurants and then I
can go ahead and do my own research later and
look at them up on trip Advisor, whatever, and then
I can go ahead and make my booking brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
Love it to Thank you so much, Megahan. You can
find that blog at blogger at large dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Greg Reeves.

Speaker 2 (01:49:55):
John McKenzie is with me. Good Morning, Good Morning, the
Martha's Vineyard Beach and book Club. I like this title
because I'm endlessly fascinated by Martha's Vineyard and this stories
that come out to you, so am I. And then
who doesn't love a beach and book club.

Speaker 11 (01:50:12):
Yes, although it's a little bit darker than you might imagine.
It's by Martha Hall Kelly, who is a terrific writer
of historical fiction. And the first book she wrote was
called Lilac Girls, which was set during the Second World
War and which I just adored, And then she did
a couple of more again which was set during the
war years, and so is this one. But it's different because,

(01:50:32):
as you say, it's set on Martha's vineyard rather than
in the actual war zone. And it's essentially a wartime
thriller with spying going on in romance and general excitement,
and set on the island, as you say, of Martha's
Vinyard in Massachusetts, which is where Martha hall Kelly's mother
grew up. And the island never saw active service, but
during World War Two the US Army based troops therefore

(01:50:55):
training exercises, and much of this book is based on
the things that the author's mother told her about what
went on back then. It's really interesting. So it's set
in two timelines. One on the present when a young
woman grieving the death of her mother arrives on Martha's
vineyard following up on something she found in her late
mother's things which has linked her with an artist on

(01:51:16):
the island, and she's gone there to try and figure
out what the connection with her mother might be. And
then the second timeline is in the nineteen forties during
the war, with two sisters who are trying to adjust
to the wartime conditions as the US army arrives and
they decide to set up a book club for the
local women to help try and take their minds off
all the other things that are going on. But the

(01:51:37):
impact of the war is all around them, and there
are rumors that there's a Nazi spy living in the
community and no one knows who to trust anymore. It's
one of those classic kind of wartime stories, but as
I say again, set outside the actual war zone, and
there's a link between the young woman who's gone looking
for the connection with her mother and these sisters back

(01:51:59):
in the nineteen forties during the war.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
I actually think it's probably books that have set themselves
in Martha's vineyard, which is why I am so intrigued
by the place. It's been such an interesting, rich sort
of setting for so many different kinds of books.

Speaker 11 (01:52:10):
Yes, and for many different kinds of things music as well.

Speaker 2 (01:52:13):
Absolutely okay. Ocean by David Attenborough and Colin Buttfield.

Speaker 11 (01:52:19):
There is a movie of this title screening in cinemas
at the moment, and the book has come out, and
as I understand it, they take slightly different tangents, but
the book is essentially a love letter to the ocean.
You may know that David Attenbur's just to ninety nine
and he's looking back at the ocean over the span
of his lifetime, and he says that the ocean is

(01:52:40):
a far more appropriate word for the world we live
in than Earth, because just over seventy percent of the
planet's surface is covered in salt water. And I knew
that was a high percentage, but what I didn't know
was that he says that ninety five percent of the biasphere,
which is the regions where life exists, is underwater. It's extraordinary.

(01:53:03):
The first relatively short part of the book looks at
the life of a blue whale, whose life span in
this case pretty much spans David Attenborough's, and he writes
about the environment the whale lives in and how over
the span of its life and his, so much of
the whales environment has changed. And then he moves into
looking at eight different sections, eight different areas of the

(01:53:26):
world's oceans. There's coral reefs, there's mangroves, oceanic islands. It's
remarkable and honestly it is just a book of wonder
in the way that you know that Attenborough sees these
things with such wonder. He's written a preface to each
of these chapters, and then his friend Colin Buttfield, the scientist,
has rounded it out with the science and given a

(01:53:48):
lot more of the information. But it's Attenborough's inspiration and
emotional love for the ocean and the whole environment that's
infectious and it carries this thing through.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
It's just extraordinary because they've worked together for a long time.
I think David Attenborough and Colin Buttfield. Do you know
everyone sort of talks about, you know, sort of the
last frontier being space, But actually every time I talk
to a marine biologist, still somebody who's associated with something
in the ocean. We know so so little about what
goes on in the depths of our oceans, and that's

(01:54:20):
a fascinating world.

Speaker 11 (01:54:21):
As I was reading this, I realized how much I
simply don't know. Oh okay, I like and can I say?
It has some beautiful photography through it. It is not
a photography picture book, but there are pages of extraordinary
photos of ocean life. It's really a lovely thing.

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
Oh look, and it's even called Ocean Earth's Last Wilderness.
That is by David Attenborough and also Colin Buttfield. And
the first book we spoke about, the Martha's Vineyard, Beach
and Book Club by Martha Hall Kelly. Thank you, Joan.

Speaker 11 (01:54:50):
See you next week the.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Sunday Session Full Show podcast on my Heart Radio powered
by News Talks AB.

Speaker 2 (01:54:59):
I am very excited because next week all Off Treebill
is going to join me. He is the artistic director
of the latest show which is coming to New Zealand.
Cortie really interesting guy German. Grew up in Germany. Was
inspired by the traditional German family circuses that you used
to travel around. They'd be about two hundred and fifty
of them in the country. And they travel around. They're

(01:55:21):
just his small family circuses and he got quite onto it. Anyway,
he's got a great story to tell. Is I'm not
also going to talk us through just sort of how
long it can take to perfect a move in order
to get it into a circusalat show, and you might
be surprised at how much work it actually takes. Anyway,
He's going to join us on the show next week,

(01:55:41):
and we're going to end with a little bit of
Taylor's swift. Of course, she's just been able to purchase
back her first six albums, So if you were hoping
that you were going to get reputation re released, I
don't think that's going to be happening anymore because she
owns it. Again. Thank you so much to Kerrie for
producing the show. Thank you so much to you for
joining us today and for all your texts. Jason Plaine

(01:56:03):
is up next. I will be back tomorrow at midday.

Speaker 8 (01:56:07):
Look what the Kings.

Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
Booth after the Way to be your afternoon? Take care
you just look what you made me do?

Speaker 24 (01:56:14):
Look what you made me do?

Speaker 14 (01:56:16):
What's your What you just made me do?

Speaker 24 (01:56:20):
Look what you made me do?

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
What your me do?

Speaker 24 (01:56:24):
What's your mean me, do what you me?

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
What you made me do?

Speaker 3 (01:56:29):
What you may do?

Speaker 2 (01:56:31):
What's your you do?

Speaker 14 (01:56:33):
Look what you just made me do.

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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