Full Show Podcast: 09 February 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. It's Sunday. You know what that means.
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best Election of Grape Reeds Us Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Frantispie
Rod can with you until midday. Coming up on the
show today, I'm thrilled to be joined by former CIA analyst,
acclaimed thriller writer, and now co host of The Rest
Is Classified podcast, David McCloskey. David has a new book out.
It's called The Seventh Floor. It follows former agent Ardamis
Procter she goes on a hunt for a Russian mole

(00:49):
on the upper echelons of the CIA. David joins us
to talk about life in the CIA, using it for
inspiration for his novels, and how he expects the agency
to fare under President Trump. After eleven, I am joined
by author Lotterdan who has done incredible work and alcohol
addiction recovery, and by sharing her own experiences as an addict,
has many of us examining our own relationship with Booze.

(01:12):
Now she's back with a new book examining diet culture,
and once again she shares a pretty crazy personal journey
of extreme dieting and drastic weight loss that left her
questioning why we spend so much time, money and energy
trying to shrink our bodies. Lotterdan is with me after
eleven and of course you're most welcome throughout the morning
to touch base. You can text on ninety two ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Two the Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's eight past nine. This weekend, emotional parents will be
dropping off and farewelling their offspring universities around the country.
Some first year students will be heading into halls of residents,
some into flats as they begin this new phase of
their lives with the kind of independence they've dreamt about.
It's hard to say he will be more emotional about
this rite of passage, the student or the parent. Both

(02:02):
generations will be doing it with a mix of nerves,
excitement and a sense of the unknown. My firstborn, my gorgeous, smart, kind,
fun loving oscar head it off with his father on
Friday to the University of Canterbury. You see, is the
dream to follow in his parents and grandparents' footsteps.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Nah. The dream is to leave home, study, have an adventure,
and at the same time and go to the same
university most of his mates were going to. After eighteen
years of being the parent dealing with the more day
to day machinations of our son's life, you'd think that
I would be an emotional wreck as my baby left home. Strangely,

(02:41):
I'm not. Instead of moping around the house, I'm buying
a new duvet for his bed and redecorating his room
just a little. The thing is, he is excited and
happy with his flat at the Halls. It's hard not
to be excited for him. Don't get me wrong, I
will miss him terribly, but I know that he is
ready to go, needs to go, and I believe our

(03:03):
relationship will now go to a whole new life. Look,
I am sure a dip will come in time. It's
that old parenting chestnut, isn't it. When your kid's happy,
you're happy. When they struggle, you struggle. There will be
tough moments ahead for both of us. A lot of
my friends and colleagues are going through the same experience
this month. It's nice to know you're not alone. Even
though everyone is dealing with it differently. It is a

(03:25):
jolt to have the family dynamic change. It's natural to
miss those random daily conversations with your kid, having everyone
around the dinner table and being part of their every day.
Yesterday on Jack Tame's show, I reviewed a new documentary
about two talented Northland brothers, Henry and Lewis Deyong, who
became world famous at age sixteen and eighteen with their

(03:48):
thrash metal band Alien Weaponry. Now their parents have been
incredibly supportive of their boys, and at one of the
boys twenty first the mom gives a speech and she
says something like that. She says, as a parent, it's
important to give your kids roots and then give them wings.
And that's exactly it. The love doesn't stop, the support
doesn't stop. We're always going to be there for our

(04:08):
kids and because of that, we're now they're now brave
enough to fly. I love this message and it's timing
was perfect. So if you're dropping off a kid a
child this weekend or in the weeks ahead, celebrate this
milestone and they're looming independence. It means you've done something
right as a parent. Keep yourself busy so you don't

(04:29):
have the chance to miss them too much, and be
grateful for less visits to the washing machine and less
confrontations over whose turn it is to unload the.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Dishwasher the Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
But look, I'm sure we've all been through this, haven't we.
Everyone goes through it. If you've got kids, if you've
got any good tips for dealing with the kids leaving home?
Love to hear from You, ninety two ninety two. And
have I a bad parent that I'm okay with all
of this? Or do you think that it's going to
sort of hit me emotionally a little bit further down
the track? Is there a possibility I'll be sitting here
in two weeks time, sobbing. Love to hear from you.

(05:04):
It is eleven past nine. Up Neck the Benefits of
AI in Healthcare. You're with Newstalks zb.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
All Sunday with Style The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin
and Winkles for the best selection of Greg Reeds news.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Talks, Hebb fourteen past nine. Now, when it comes to
artificial intelligence, we can be a bit wary and focus
on the negative, can't we? But there are real benefits
to AI in one industry where experts see transformative potential
is healthcare. This week, the University of Otago has hosted
Distinguished Professor John Hurdies from Canada. John is a world
expert on the use of AI in the healthcare of

(05:43):
elderly and he is still in the country and we've
managed to track him down.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
John.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Good morning, Hi, Hi, good morning, Thank you so much
for being with us. Hey, can you tell me, first
of all, how widely is AI currently being used within
the field of health in general.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
It's in its early stages, I would say, so. It's
being used in diagnostics to some extent. It's certainly being
used in data analytics. It's beginning to be used in
primary care by physicians as a note taking and clinical
summary device. But it's still early days for now.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
So what is its potential in the future.

Speaker 5 (06:25):
The potential is pretty substantial. I think, you know, the
introduction of AI into our society in general, but into
healthcare specifically, will be a bigger change than going from
landlines to cell phones or from fax machines to computers.
This really can be transformative and it will be every

(06:46):
aspect of the healthcare system. It can affect everything from
person level use by patients and the family to clinical
and management use and use by policymakers.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about the areas
that it could transform health. Can we do you see
it having the biggest impact? Do you think?

Speaker 5 (07:06):
I think the most substantial impact right away will be
around the management and use of complex data systems. So
in my country, Canada and New Zealand, we actually have
put in place very sophisticated information systems in the care
home sector and in community based home care services, and

(07:29):
AI systems can help with advanced analytics around those data
to let us understand more about the challenges associated with
aging and the way the health system can respond to that.
So that's the immediate area of impact. Around diagnostics for sure,
Around coding of health information like diagnostic information in hospitals,

(07:52):
I think there's some potential. I'll be a bit more
nervous around some of the clinical applications in care of
older people or persons with disabilities that we can talk
a bit about more, iph you'lize.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, I'd like to because your focus is on older generations,
which is fantastic for using them because we have an
aging population, So how can we use this technology to
improve the care and the outcomes of older people.

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Well, the thing that we can do immediately is to
use data systems that we have to better target older
people for specific types of services, to provide a more personalized,
research based approach to care, to identify people at risk
of falls or people who have complex needs that require

(08:38):
support for them and their caregivers. We have very sophisticated
tools we can use for that. We're under utilizing that
information clinically because sometimes all this stuff is a bit
complicated to organize and to communicate, and so using AI
systems to translate all this technical terminology into something that
elderly people in their family can understand and also summarizing

(09:02):
it in a useful way for clinicians to act on
would be an e to achieve. There are some other
types of technologies that are emerging that could be used
to increase seniors independence or reduced risks. So some sensor
based technology might be helpful and for example detecting unsteady

(09:24):
gait and risk of falls. But one of the challenges
with sensors is that sometimes elderly people view them as
intrusive to their privacy and sometimes they don't work all
that well.

Speaker 6 (09:36):
Yet.

Speaker 5 (09:38):
An area that I'd be most concerned about is the
substitution of human based care with AI based technologies. So
the example I'll give you for that would be around loneliness.
Loneliness is an important mental health problem affecting many older people,

(09:58):
and there's sometimes an idea that, well, we could just
create a system an AI companion to make elderly people
feel less lonely. I'd rather find ways that we can
mobilize humans to work with elderly people to make them
feel less lonely.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, that's a good point. Going back to the first
thing you mentioned near the data, is that a matter
of being able to bring together a lot of information
from different people who may be involved in that care
to to make sure that they're getting the right care.
Is that how that works. That's sort of taking all
that data and pulling it together.

Speaker 6 (10:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (10:34):
So in New Zealand. In New Zealand and Canada, an
elderly person, for example, getting community based home care will
be assessed with a comprehensive assessment system that my research
team developed. It has about three hundred and fifty data
elements covering all aspects of a person's life, It tracks
them over time, and it's a bit challenging to make

(10:55):
sense of all that. My research team has done a
lot of work to summarize those data to identify risk
of falls or hospitalization or more or cognitive decline, but
sometimes clinicians find it's hard to interpret all those data
elements at once, and we don't do a very good

(11:16):
job at helping older people and their family members understand
the results of those assessments and what they can do
about it. That's where an AI system I think could
be helpful.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, makes sense. Is it these kind of things more
useful in that older demographic or do you think we'll
see widespread benefit from it? I mean, obviously that idea
of using the data can be started at any at
any age count it absolutely.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
You know, we don't have as good data systems in
place for younger individuals or persons with mental health needs
or disabilities as we do with age care. But you know,
the future of healthcare is really a future where we
have data rich environments. So, for example, when it comes
to older persons, we can link their clinical assessment data

(12:02):
to geospatial information about poverty or crime rates or environmental
characteristics in a neighborhood. If we look at use of
smart watchers, there's a great deal of information that you
get in say an Apple watch or a garment watch
that could be useful. And then genetic information is another

(12:22):
type of information that's available. Imagine being able to put
all of that together into a single data source that
can be interpreted to help understand immediate and longer term
health risks. That is absolutely possible, but the analytic task
is very challenging.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
John, you mentioned things they're like our smart watches. How
do we know that the information AI provides is going
to be reliable and accurate?

Speaker 5 (12:48):
The short answer is we don't. We should assume that
the AI will have errors attached to it. In my
own experimentation with AI systems in areas where I have expertise,
I find it's right about ninety eight percent of the time.
But what I don't know is about that two percent

(13:08):
of the time. So when I've looked at it in
terms of understanding and describing fall risks or depression or
cognitive impairment, it does a really good job, but I'm
not in a position to know. If I was to
ask it, how should I design an airplane that I
can personally used to fly around the country that it's
going to give me correct information. And so what that

(13:31):
means is that we do need to have people with
expertise that can interpret the evidence from an AI system
and help us make sense of it. A challenge that
we have is there's not one AI system out there.
There's not one massive AI hovering over the earth that
is answering all questions. In fact, there are already hundreds

(13:52):
of different AI solutions out there, and they're not all
created equal. Some are better than others, Some are designed
to try to give answers as clearly as possible, Some
are frankly being designed to give answers that are in
a specific direction. So we're in a bit of a
conundrum that AI systems are very useful to experts like

(14:14):
me to very quickly summarize information, but for a lay
person I would still have concerns about the veracity of
any given AI output.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Interesting, you mentioned that the sensors are still worping down
there in your concern around the substitution of human care
for AI, But do you see any other downside to
using AI and healthcare?

Speaker 5 (14:39):
Well, it comes down to what we want the AI
system to do for us. So there's an organization called
the Institute for Health Care Improvement that says we should
try to achieve five aims in any intervention in healthcare.
We should improve patient outcomes, we should improve equity in outcomes,
we should improve the experience of care when we're receiving care.

(15:04):
We should improve cost effect goodness, and we should improve
staff experience. If we can do all those five things,
then we have the potential to improve quality of care.
What we should be doing is looking at any evaluation
of an aisystemacy to what extent does it meet those objectives.
It could meet one but not the other objectives, and

(15:25):
that may not necessarily be helpful. So, for example, we've
developed a targeting mechanism to identify elderly people who may
have a delayed discharge from hospital because of the complexity
of their needs. The intended use of that is to
identify people early so that the hospital discharge planning staff
can intervene early on to put in place the proper

(15:46):
supports to help the person be discharged effectively to an
appropriate level of care. The negative use of it is
that it could be used to deny services, and it's
the same algorithm, it's just a matter of what is
the intended use behind it. So we have to think
about applying guard rails and go principles to the use

(16:07):
of the AI system so that they meet the needs
of elderly people and the general population at large.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Because yeah, and I mean, the main criteria surely would
be that it would increase the quality of care.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Well, you and I agree on that that quality should
be a first priority. But a government may say cost
effectiveness has to be a priority, right, And so if
we look at the case of the delayed discharge, the
perspective of the person really matters. So the elderly person
will say, I want to be able to go home.

(16:39):
I want to get good care. The person's family member
may say, I'm worried about the supports my family members
going to need and whether I can meet all my
competing demands of my time. The hospital may think, I've
got to reduce my length of stay and I've got
to empty out some beds so that new patients can
be admitted and people can get access to medical beds.

(16:59):
And the government may say I need to reduce taxes
for my population. Those are competing priorities, and we have
to decide whose active kids priority.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Oh, John, really nice to talk to you. Thank you
so much for your time today. That was University at
the University of Otago has been hosting John. He is
a distinguished professor from Canada. John Heard is there talking
about the use of AI and healthcare, especially with the elderly,
and he's been working on this in Canada where he's
seen significant improvements in the lives of older people. Twenty

(17:30):
six past nine. You're with News Talks ATB.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Thank you very much for your reassuring texts about sending
m akidd off to university. My firstborn Jenny textas ay,
my grandson is at the University of Canterbury, best University
of New Zealand, and the people are lovely both in
UNI and in christ He will be fine. He is
lucky to go there. Actually, you're right, Jenney, he was
lucky to go there because a lot of students wanted
to go there and it was very hard to get

(18:01):
into the hall. So we're very grateful to get in there.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
No, I think he'll be fine. I think I'll be fine.
Time to talk local politics now, and I'm joined by
New Zealand here with political reporter Adam Pearce. Good morning, Adam,
good day.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
How are you.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I'm very good. Thank you. What is the message from
Mary to all political parties to come out of White
Tongey this week.

Speaker 7 (18:22):
Yeah, well, it's certainly not just one message. You know,
there is a diverse set of views among taw Mary,
and I think we saw that reflected on White Tongy
Day and through the White Tangy Day celebrations. You know,
there will always be those calls for the bill, you know,
the Treaty Bill, the Threety Principles Bill to be scraps.

(18:43):
You know, that was a central theme as we heard
from the protest as you know, those people that turn
their backs on David Seymour as he was he was
making what was quite a combative speech from the pie
at White Tonguey. But there are also people who are
actually kind of sick of it. I don't know, there
might be some sympathy from your listeners on that. You know,

(19:05):
I think there are a lot of politicians included actually
who are kind of sick of talking about the bill,
especially because the circumstances around it haven't changed. We have
National New Zealand first both saying that it's not going anywhere.
Obviously David Seymour is trying to suggest that someone may
change their minds on that. I think that's pretty unlikely.

(19:25):
So it seems as though the bill is not going anywhere.
And actually there are some MARY leaders who would prefer
to hear what plan the government has to actually advance
the outcomes that they go on about so much, you know, education, health,
economic prosperity, all those kind of things. So I think
there's definitely a call to move past just simply talking

(19:48):
about the Treaty Principal's Bill and all the legislation that
MARY may oppose and really look forward to how the
government will enable the Mari economy to prosper And I.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Think we all feel the same about that. The public
submissions of course on the Treaty Principle's Bill. Can you
throughout this coming week. Look, there's a rather interesting story
in the Herald Today Adam regarding the ACT leader David
Seymour writing a letter to the police supporting Philip Pokinghorn

(20:21):
during the investigation into his wife's death. What's this about?
Is there anything in this It.

Speaker 6 (20:27):
Was quite interesting.

Speaker 7 (20:28):
I think it's an interesting insight into how politicians can
get involved in these really high profile cases. And obviously
so this has come from the HEROLDS calumdi Y who's
been on top of the story ever since Pauline passed.
It is important, obviously to note that Philip Polkinhorn was

(20:49):
found not guilty after I think it was a nine
week trial last year which has really captured the nation.
But this story shows us that there was a letter
that David Seymour wrote in April of twenty twenty two,
which was about four months before Polkinhorn was charged police. Now,
in that letter, Seymour claimed police had acted in appropriately

(21:12):
invaded Polkinghorn's privacy and it even alleged money laundering. And
he did all this in his capacity as the EPSOM
electrical MP. So it was Polkinghorn's MP. And it's not
not unusual for electricity MP's to advocate on their constituents,
behalf semore as he does it quite a lot. But

(21:32):
what's it is what is interesting is that Seymour did
it on this occasion given that given the circumstances, you know,
there are clear lines that MP's have to adhere to
especially when it comes to police. You know, they can't
be seen to be getting any undue influence or preference,
even if it's on behalf of someone else or for themselves. Now,
Seymour to be fair, and he did acknowledge that in

(21:54):
this letter, saying that he was simply passing on concerns
from his constituent passing them on to police. Police said
in the statement they acknowledged the letter and said that
Seymour wasn't involved in any investigation. But like I said,
it is an interesting insight into just how politicians, on
given that they work on behalf of their constituents, can

(22:16):
be involved in something like this. And yeah, it certainly
an interesting little in addition to what was, like I say,
a story that really gripped a nation.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
It certainly did. I like the bit where he said
that mister Pokinghorn feels he has been treated like a
suspect and he guess he has been treated it turns
out like a suspect.

Speaker 8 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Hey, look, let's move on to this story about the
Cook Islands and this China deal, which our Foreign Minister
Winston Peters said in Northern New Zealand nor then Cook
Island people really knew what was in the agreement. This
all sort of came out on Friday. Have we learned
anything more about what is going on here, Adam?

Speaker 6 (22:56):
Yeah, Well, I think we're still a bit in the dark.

Speaker 9 (22:58):
Really.

Speaker 7 (22:58):
It's from the reporting, it's expected that this deal between
the Cook Islands and China will be signed in the
coming days or weeks now. For those who need a reminded,
the Cock Islands self governing, but they're in free association
with New Zealand, so we provide support through defense, foreign affairs,

(23:19):
disaster releivet that kind of thing. They have New Zealand
passports and that's actually been on one of the issues
as well, and that the Cork Islands have been exploring
the possibility of having their own passports and that's something
that Foreign and Insti wins and Peters has also responded
pretty clearly to saying that, you know, the Cook Island's

(23:39):
welcome to do that, but they would lose their New
Zealand passport and the process. And it sounds like from
the media reporting that the Cooks are back down on
that one. But yeah, I think more pertinent is this
China deal which comes at a time where there's a
lot of focus on the Pacific region, particularly around security.
You know, we're seeing a lot more interest from China

(24:01):
in the Pacific. That's also woken up the United States,
who has probably been a bit of the ball as
far as looking after the Pacific or keeping an eye
on the Pacific, and that allowed China togain and that
we think of the security deal that they did with
the Solomon Islands in twenty twenty three, which caused a
bit of a stir seeing that China kind of moving
into that security space in the Pacific. But yeah, I

(24:24):
mean we've got Prime Minister Mark Brown at the cook
saying that this deal really isn't any different to the
one that New Zealand signed with China. I think we
yet to see the detail on it. We don't have
a lot of detail at this stage. It's certainly piaud
the interest of feign Minister Winston Peters, who I think,
by the sounds of it, feels a bit aggrieved that
New Zealand really wasn't in the process of consultation here

(24:47):
on this one. Mark Brown kind of defending that, saying, well,
we don't really need to be consulting every step of
the way. It sounds like media reporting has perhaps advanced
that process, blowing the lid off it. I think from
one News is certainly domestically here saying that that China
deal was in so it will certainly be something that

(25:08):
New Zealand will be keeping a keen on. As I say,
New Zealand is a key partner or a key player
in the Pacific, particularly around the smaller, smaller nations that
we have associations with.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Adam, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Really appreciate it. It is twenty two.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
To ten The Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio
powered by News Talks at B. There's no better way
to start your Sunday. It's the Sunday Session with Francesca
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great breeds.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
US Talks at B weekly. The elast sixteen after the changes,
What a.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Change, A new era of Shortland Street starts tomorrow night.
Not only is the show now a three day week format,
but it will be split up into four mini seasons
and innovative launch campaign is also going to see the
first episode live stream on TikTok ahead of the launch

(26:13):
of Shortland Street New Blood Show, producer Oliver Driver is
with me now, Hi, Oliver, Hello, Right, the new era
begins tomorrow night. We've got this three day week format
and the switch to the mini series. How different has
this made the show?

Speaker 10 (26:30):
I think anytime there's change, you've been look at it
as either an opportunity for innovation or doing the same
thing you've done before. And so when we found out
that we were going to go to three nights a week,
we wanted to try and really think about how the
audience would experience those three nights without the other two,
without a sort of constant feel of Shortland Street. Because

(26:51):
the weekend's being the weekends. People are used to Shortlan
Street just being there every night, and that's going to
change to being something that you're going to watch three
times in a week and then you're going to have
to wait for days until you get to watch it again.
And so with that in mind, what we've tried to
do is sort of sort of blend our show with
more of a procedural type show where you have a
sort of beginning in a middle and an end story

(27:12):
that a story that has at the beginning a middle
and an end across those three episodes, so that at
the end of a third episode you sort of feel
like you've had a complete shortened street meal, if you like,
with still cliffhangers and you know, stories progressing on each week,
but giving it a bit more of that kind of
feeling of satisfaction on a Wednesday rather than always my Thursday.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Do you think the audiences will feel a definite shift.

Speaker 10 (27:39):
Yeah, I think they will. I mean we've also tried
to kind of increase the medical and to push a
more towards realism and to you know, do some more
work around that, but really want to kind of tell
character based stories with guests, and so what people will
see is like a guest coming in, a patient coming
in on the Monday, we're figuring out what's wrong with them.
Things go left, right, and sideways, as they always do

(28:02):
with the soap opera, and then that story gets resolved
on the Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
While our characters.

Speaker 10 (28:08):
Vibes, loves, cheating, ambitions, all of those sorts of things
they carry on throughout the whole year as always.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Sounds like quite a positive thing, actually, Ollie, that it's
given you an opportunity. You guys an opportunity to sort of,
as you say, sort of craft the storylines a little bit.

Speaker 10 (28:22):
Differently, absolutely and constantly adapt you know, adapt to it
by right. And you have to kind of be looking
at how we watch television now. It's no longer people
sitting there going from home and away to shortened streets
two and a half. Men, we're on TV and Z platform.
This is the same platform that as The Jackal and
all of these other great international shows that we're watching.

(28:43):
And quite often now you're going from watching a show
that has incredibly high production values with film stars playing
the leads, and then after that you're given on shorten
Street and you have to do it. We have to
do everything we can to try and increase our storytelling,
our visual what it looks at the com screen, what

(29:03):
it sounds like on screen, to try and give the
audience are feeling that they're not watching something substantially different
to all the other things they love.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
From a behind the scenes perspective, how has it changed
for the cast and crew.

Speaker 10 (29:16):
They're busier, good, and they're working harder because and the
stories have changed because we are putting more of an
emphasis on guest stories as well. That reflect how our
cast are feeling and what they're going through much in
the same way that if you watch a show like
New Amsterdam or Gray's Anatomy, within one episode there'll be

(29:36):
a complete story arc of something that happens, so you're
not left you know, you have a satisfying kind of
journey on that experience.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
So we're doing that same thing.

Speaker 10 (29:45):
So for our cast, there's a lot more guest actors,
which is great.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
It's always good to.

Speaker 10 (29:49):
Get excited by new actors coming in. And we have
a bunch of new cast as well that have come
in that are generating stories around them as well, which
is always good too because they're playing inexperienced doctors and surgeons,
and that gives you a huge amount of storytelling potential.
Because all of our other ones are really really good,
you're just basically watching people be brilliant at the time,

(30:10):
whereas watching people fail and struggle is also really great
to humor.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
All of a. TV and Said have announced the first
episode will be streamed live on TikTok and the stream
will be split screen featuring cast members during doing a
Q and A and giving live in the moment reactions.
Was this something driven by TV and Z or the
Shortened Street.

Speaker 10 (30:27):
Team, both TV and Z and south Pert Pictures, who
are the production company that make Shortened Street, are really
interested and excited about trying to engage with audiences in
all the different ways that we can, and that means
being open to and excited about other platforms and the
way that people consume media now. So I think we've
been doing a lot together as a network and a

(30:48):
production company kind of in lockstep to go how do
we approach, how do we do it, and brainstorming on
those things, and this is one of the ones that
came out of that, and we're really excited about the
idea of it. You know, we're continuing to try and
push the innovation as much as we can. And the
other thing we're doing, which I think is really exciting,
is that we've partnered with Play It Strange, which is
a young songwriting competition, and we're now using the music

(31:12):
that they produce for within our show so that we
get to have kind of songs that montages or things
like that and to help launch the careers of young musicians.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
And I heard about that. I think that's a brilliant idea.
This interaction that you're going to get from TikTok? Is
that important now? Is this the kind of innovation that
creators and broadcasters have to be thinking about to kind
of get the cut through?

Speaker 10 (31:41):
I think we have to be thinking about how it's
changing and how people are consuming media, and TikTok's massive,
and the way that people watch shows is very different.
It's not the entire family sitting around the TV together
watching one screen with their meals on their laps anymore.
It's everybody's in a different room. And so how mum
and dad consume Shorten Street as compared to how the

(32:03):
nineteen seventeen thirteen year olds consume it is completely different,
and we want to be there with them and try
to make it as fun and enjoyable for them. The
other thing we've sort of done with the show beginning
this year, because it's a three episode format, we've tried
to structure it that it's a really good way in
for people into the show, and that even if you
haven't watched, if you've been watching it, if you haven't

(32:23):
been watching it regularly, or you haven't seen it in years,
that this Monday it's a great entry point into it.
And so we're trying to do as much as we
can as well to kind of either bring back laps
viewers or talk to viewers who maybe think Shorten Street
isn't what it is now and still had a kind
of old, soapy feel.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Oliver, are you confident with the changes you've made, we're
going to see Shortland Street on our screens well into
the future.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (32:47):
Absolutely. I mean I think you know, there's nothing else
in our country that shows us on screen, you know,
multiple times a week, that allows us to see ourselves
and hear our voices, and that we've got a great
range of television shows and movies now, but they all
come in for six weeks and then they go away again,
Whereas says, the ability to just constantly show us ourselves

(33:09):
on screen, and I think that's vital.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Oliver Driver, thank you so much for your time, and
look enjoy the launch tomorrow night. Best of Black.

Speaker 6 (33:16):
Thanks enjoy watching it.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Make sure you watch That was Olive Driver, producer of
Shortland Street. The new season Shortland Street New Blood starts
tomorrow seven pm on TV and Z two, TVNZ Plus
or TikTok It is twelve to ten.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Putting the tough question to the newspakers, the Mic Asking
Breakfast back.

Speaker 11 (33:34):
To the Cooks and their big day out in Beijing
as they inca deal that seems to suggest China's making
major in roads in the Pacific. Foreign Minister Winston Peters
is what this are we buying this out of proportion?
So they signed deal with China, So what we do
business with China is really an issue.

Speaker 12 (33:46):
It was an issue to the extent that a number
of the constructions where the Chinese were involved in corbalance
have simply failed.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
I raised all this.

Speaker 12 (33:53):
With Swanas and Wani and he said, you're to get
them fixed up. But the reality here is Colgan, people
don't know what's going on, and I am my government.
I constantly required to ensure we talk to them, to
ensure that we on the path and usual taxpayers exactly
what's going on, so that we're a channel digital text.

Speaker 11 (34:09):
Bag back tomorrow at six am the Mike Husking Breakfast
with the Rain Driver of the LAMB News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Keep It's Simple, It's Sunday the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Session with Francesca Rutgerter and Wiggles for the best selection
of graverys used talk sedby.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
This is end of the beginning beginning It is from
Joe Kerrey, who plays Steve in Stranger Things. Now he
has actually been in New Zealand. He is a musician
just known as Joe and he was performing at Langway
in Auckland on White Hagy Day. He is currently doing
quite a lot of touring around the globe. He's also

(35:03):
got a new album, The Crux, coming out on Eightpril fourth,
and for all you Stranger Things fans out there, there
will be a new season released this year, so that
is very exciting. I love the song. This was huge,
wasn't it huge? And last year I think yeah, no nice.
So I hope you enjoyed him if you managed to
see him at Laneway last week. Hey, Maria text me

(35:25):
thank you very much for your text. Hello Francesca. Sorry,
probably spelt that wrong. Nope, you nailed it. You've probably
been caught up in the excitement with your son going
to UNI and you haven't thought about the end result
that he won't be there to have the meals together
in the conversations, it will hit you suddenly and rightly.

Speaker 13 (35:41):
So.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
My grandson has been taken to Wellington as he's going
to UNI today. I can imagine what his parents are
going to feel when they turn around to walk to
their car. Now they are Derby and Joan or It's
not easy to see your children go, but you do
want the best for them. Good luck. Thank you, Maria. Yeah,
I think it probably will hit me at the moment.
We are caught up in the excitement and it's all

(36:03):
going terribly well. And actually I was terrible thing to say,
but kind of ready for him to go to so
but look they're back. He's back in eight weeks. It's
going to fly by. But thank you for your text.
I just want to mention very quickly, if you've got
a PlayStation in the home, you will know that you

(36:26):
have not been able to access games online or play
online with your mates. About twenty four hours, Sony's PlayStation
network has been experiencing a massive outage. As I mentioned,
about twenty four hours now. They've been very quiet on this.
They didn't say anything for about twelve hours, which makes
you feel like there's a bit of scrambling going on,
causing a huge amount of frustration for gamers around the world.

(36:47):
There is a little bit of concern today that there's
a possibility and these are just rumors, but that Sony
may have been hacked like they were back in twenty
fourteen when Sony Picture's Entertainment was hacked. Remember it was
huge and it caused a big drummer. A lot of
information was recent. There is a little bit of concern

(37:08):
that maybe there was something else going on here rather
than just some kind of someone you know, tripped over
and pulled a plug out. Anyway, we'll keep our eye
on that and fingers crossed for all these For all
of you out there who love you PlayStation, that you're
up and running again soon. It is a six to.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Ten the Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News talksblrighty Ho.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Coming up next hour, David McCloskey is with me, and
I'm very excited about this because I have spent this
summer listening to his podcast. It's called The Rest is Classified.
You may have heard of it, listen to it, or
you may also have been enjoying one of his books.
His latest book, The Seventh Level is out. The Seventh Floor,

(37:53):
I apologize. He writes really good spice rollers They've got.
He used to be a CIA analyst. He spent or
nine years working in Damascus and so a lot of
his books are based on what it really is like
to be part of the CIA. Anyway, I'm very excited
he is with us next to talk about his latest book,

(38:15):
being part of the CIA and how he feels the
CIA will fare under President Trump. We're going to be
back shortly with the Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Holder, holda.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Tonight, She.

Speaker 9 (38:45):
Her fly.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
She must be gone somewhere, I can believe.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Any Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and
Wiggles for the best selection of great reads us.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
You're with a Sunday Session. I'm Francisco bud Can with
you until midday. Really good to have you with us now.
I don't know about you, but I find the world
of secret service and spies and espionage uterly fascinating, which
is why I am so excited to talk to my
next guest, former CIA analyst turned author David McCloskey. In
his years at the CIA, David worked in field stations

(39:33):
across the Middle East. He had access to all sorts
of classified information. He gave testimony to Congress as well
as providing White House briefings. David left the CIA in
twenty fourteen and is now using his lived experience to
write the best spy thrillers books so good. Former cias,
former CIA staff have said that they are the most

(39:54):
authentic accounts of CIA operations you'll find in print. This week,
David McCloskey released his third book that's called The Seventh Floor.
He is with me from Texas. Good morning, David, Thank
you so much for being with us.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
You wild critics with the first two books. How much
of that success do you think is down to this
lived experience that you're writing about.

Speaker 6 (40:24):
Well, I think certainly some of it is. I mean,
I am trying in all of the books, you know,
first one Siria, second one's Russia. Third most current one
is The Seventh Floor at CI headquarters. So it's kind
of a Langley book in each of them, I am
trying to be, you know, sort of real and authentic
to the actual operations of CI, but also the culture

(40:46):
and the way the place feels and what it's actually
like to work there. And so I think to some degree,
having lived that and knowing a lot of people you
know very closely who did as well, you know, it
makes it easier, I think, to really tell those stories
than if I were coming at this fully from the outside.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
It's interesting you mentioned culture, because that's what I pick
up on. That's what I love about the books is
that you kind of bring that unique culture of the
CIA at light. You write in the book Langley managed
to be dull and smug, tribal and bureaucratic and nerve
Seemer and totally remove from where the espionage actually happens
the field. Tell me a little bit about those different

(41:26):
fragmentations within the CIA, because you do pick that up
in your books.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I think to some degree,
the CIA is like any other big organization where you
have a big bureaucracy, You have a lot of people
who are pretending to do work but actually aren't. You
have people spending all day in you know, vicious and
pointless meetings and sending emails, and you have this tension

(41:51):
between a headquarters and the field, which if you're working
in any big organization you know that has a bunch
of stores everywhere, or a bunch of railroad terminals or whatever,
you're going to have that tension. So I think to
some degree, there's there's there are themes around the work
of that will resonate with anybody, right, But at the
same time, the CIA is doing some really weird stuff.

(42:13):
I mean, we're out there trying to convince people to
commit treason and give us, you know, sort of or
sell us the darkest secrets that their country might have.
So that's a bizarre thing for an organization to do.
So both of those dynamics are present every day at CIA,
and I think I kind of I wanted those to that.
I don't know, that reality right to come through in

(42:35):
different ways in each of the novels.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
You're so right, it's part of it is just so
foreign to many of us. In the other puts you
can just relate to so easily. It's just a general
organization very well put. Look, I get a sense that
people when they work for the CIA, they truly believe
in the work they do when they love it. But
I get the feeling from your book that the CIA
doesn't necessarily love you back.

Speaker 12 (43:00):
Well.

Speaker 6 (43:00):
Again, I think it's this reality of working in really
big organizations, right, is that we can all convince ourselves
if we've served in one of these that were invaluable
and we're irreplaceable, you know. And the fact is is that,
you know, the CIA is just like that, where you
could spend thirty years there and you get sent out

(43:23):
with a kind of you know less than you know,
a ticker tape parade, let's say, and all of a
sudden you're out, You're actually out. The building moves on,
the people move on, the organization, the operations move on,
and you're sort of, you know, left, I think dealing
with frankly, you know, this question of what did you
give to a place that doesn't actually give you that

(43:45):
much back in the end. And so I really wanted,
especially in this book The Seventh Floor, to kind of
explore that tension or that dilemma of you work at
a place forever, it makes you, you know, you help
make it to some degree, but when you're out, what
do you take with you? What do you have left?
You know? It's kind of a I think it's an
evergreen question for people who have been oil to an

(44:07):
organization for a really long time.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
And is that how you felt when you lived?

Speaker 6 (44:12):
Well? You know, actually I know I'm ashamed of it,
not really, I mean, because I wish I had something,
I wish I had some great answer that kept out
that door. Awa.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, I'm done, I'm good things.

Speaker 6 (44:22):
I kind of thought, you know, I left for very
mundane reasons. It was just I looked at the people
who were five plus years ahead of me and said,
I'm not exactly sure this is what I want to
be doing. I want to go out into the world
and see what there is. So I didn't leave with
a sense of I don't think i'd been in for
you know, I hadn't been in for three decades, and
so I didn't have this built up sense of the

(44:44):
whole place was my life, you know. But I do
know people who have stayed in for multiple decades, some
for thirty, you know, five years, and there is this
you know that hearing those stories, I think is what
allowed me to fill the seventh floor with that kind
of feel and vibe.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Tell me about you know, when you leave the CIA,
you are writing from quite a privileged position with sort
of information around national security and things. Do you have
to submit to your manuscript to the CIA to cheek like?
How do you balance that? Like what you can write about,
what you can take from your lived experience and share

(45:24):
on the page.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
Yeah, so I am required to send everything to what
we call our publication review board. So everything from you know,
updates to my resume to op eds I might write
for the newspaper to the novels, everything goes to them.
Now they are actually you know, you think big government agency,
many of this thing is terrible to deal with. In reality,

(45:47):
they're actually pretty fast. I like to think maybe they
just love the book so they get them back to
me so quickly. You know, at least I've convinced myself
of this, But they're pretty fast. They are actually very
thoughtful and I think fair in what they choose to redact.
They do send stuff back. It's kind of humorous actually.
So you send them the document, you know, word document,
and they'll send back PDFs, like multiple PDFs in some cases,

(46:11):
like twenty or thirty PDFs. It's all caps. Everything's been capitalized.
I don't know why, what program they're putting this into
that capitalizes everything, and then they redacted with a black
highlighter and that's the stuff that you can't put in,
you know. And the reality is I do a lot
of frankly self censoring upfront because I want to be responsible.

(46:31):
There are elements of the operations in the tradecraft that
I know were just off limits and frankly would probably
be boring to the reader, and so I choose to
just not not include that. So I've gotten kind of
this down after now, you know, just sent my fourth
book to them, Like I've now got this down to
kind of a process and not a science, I would say,

(46:52):
but it moves pretty smoothly.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
A lot of the I'm sure that a lot of
what you write about, obviously, as we've talked about, comes
from your lived experience and things in quite an extraordinary job.
And I know that you spent eight years in Syria
and you lived in Damascus and things like that. Has
writing actually been a way for you to process maybe
and deal with some of the situations and issue you know,

(47:16):
issues and things that you've had to deal with as
an analyst.

Speaker 6 (47:21):
Yeah, yeah, very much.

Speaker 14 (47:22):
So.

Speaker 6 (47:23):
I mean, you know, the Syria experience really was the
start of this for me. You know, Syria, I worked
on it from the time when it was kind of
you know, pre civil war to them when it was
really in the thick of it. And that experience of
just watching an entire country pull itself to pieces, you know,
hundreds of thousands of people killed, the whole place shattered,

(47:45):
you know, ninety or so percent of the country in
you know, sort of in poverty, tens of thousands of
people disappeared. I mean, it was a it was an
experience where you feel you're very connected to the place,
and yet all the things you're writing are kind of
these strategic analyzes that are you know, anadine, really bureaucratically

(48:05):
and for good reason. And so for me, the writing
when I got out was really an attempt to try
to connect, I think, to some of the humanity of
what had happened there and to write stories, you know.
And again I didn't start thinking this would turn into novels,
but just to kind of write stories that would help
me process what I had seen and experienced. And then

(48:26):
it just went from there.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
That's interesting, did you so, did you always think that
this is what you were going to do, right, novels
when you left the CIA? When did that idea come up?
Is this something you've always been king to do?

Speaker 6 (48:39):
No, I mean, the idea actually came up sort of
embarrassingly late, I think. I mean, I left the CIA,
and I had time in between leaving and starting a
new job, and I didn't actually have to have a
job for those you know, three or four months, and
so I spent a lot of that time, pretty much
all that time writing, but at no point did I
think that I would turn it into a book. It

(48:59):
was just for me really, And then you know, I
realized as I was writing that I loved the process
of writing, the input of it, just sitting down and
actually you know, spending six or eight hours putting words
down on paper. And so, you know, sort of fast
forward like five years from that, and I had this
manuscript which I thought, you know, was like maybe halfway decent,

(49:20):
but actually was terrible. I mean it was, you know,
really atrocious, like no plots, you know, totally disjointed characters
because it was all just like a diary.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
It's like, you know, Matthew McConaughey published his diary, but
I'm not McConaughey, So there was no market for you know,
David mccloskey's Syria Diary. And but at that point, five
years on, I thought, look, I loved writing so much,
let me see if I could turn this into something
that not only I want to write and read, but
that other people might. And so that idea came actually

(49:50):
very late, and it was years after I had left CIA.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Well that's interesting, because they're so excellent. I thought maybe
you'd been right. Well, obviously you had been writing as
an analyst, but not quite like this. And I should
just mention if people want to hear a little bit
more about how you feel about what's going on in
Syria at the moment, you did cover that in your
podcast and the rest is classified, which which is fantastic.
And let's have a little talk about the podcast because

(50:15):
I've spent my summer listening to it. It's a podcast
that you co host with Gordon our career and you
take us sort of into the mysterious world of spies
and spinach. But these are actually true stories. What is
the importance to sharing these stories?

Speaker 6 (50:34):
Well, you know, I think I will say that one
of our one of Gordon's and I's done of key
goals is, of course we're trying to entertain people with
these stories, but we are also trying to make them
as authentic as possible to the reality of the espionage business.
And so I think what we're trying to accomplish, frankly,
is to shed some light on a really misunderstood world

(50:59):
where most of us, I think, get our you know,
kind of cues or our hints about what it's like
from Hollywood, right, and I think the reality of the
business in many ways is actually far more interesting because
at the core of most of the stories we're telling,
it is just it's people who are like us, but
who happen to be in various parts of the espionage business.

(51:22):
Is their job either their intelligence officers, you know, or
they're the actual spies who have been recruited to go
and you know, give secrets. And it's just kind of
fascinating the choices that these humans have made because they
tend to be caught up in you know, games where
the geopolitical stakes are very high, where the personal stakes
are very high, and where many of them are sort

(51:43):
of living in existence where they're telling one group of
people one thing and another group of people another thing.
And so there's all these themes of betrayal and deception
that kind of infuse the stories. So, you know, it's
frankly just the case that there's a lot of material
out there, right, and we do believe that even people

(52:03):
who are not you know, maybe they're not reading spy
thrillers regularly. We do believe that they'll be interested in
these stories because at the heart of them are just
really interesting people.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Absolutely, Are you ault all concerned for the Secret Service
and President Trump?

Speaker 6 (52:22):
Yeah, you know, I think I am. I am trying to,
I think maintain kind of a cautious hope that there
will be more smoke than fire and that the headlines
that we're seeing that a lot of the kind of
concern won't really translate into an effect on the CIA's mission.

(52:43):
I mean, when I talk to people who are on
the inside, who were there for the first Trump administration,
have been there, you know since I left, they would
tell you that there was, you know, really almost no
disruption to the cias Court mission over the course of that,
you know, time that the CIA just kind of runs
and there's bluster and you know, politicking, you know, at

(53:05):
that sort of the thirty thousand foot level, but not
really when you get down to what's happening inside CIA.
You know, I think the buyouts that have been offered
kind of strike me as maybe not the best idea,
in large part because it's just not really focused. You know.
I think it's probably the case that in any massive organization.
There are efficiencies to be had of just you know, jobs, people, roles, etc.

(53:29):
That either need to be moved or maybe don't need
to be there. But you've got to be really targeted
about that kind of stuff. And so I really do
hope that again more smoke than fire, and I'm sort
of cautiously hopeful that that will be the case in
Trump two point zero as it was the first time around.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
David, just finally, you know, I read the books and
I love them, and it reflects sort of current day espionage.
I listen to the podcast and some of those stories
are historical espionage stories, and I wonder, has the trade
actually sort of changed that much over the years, or
is it or a spies still essentially doing the same thing,

(54:07):
maybe just with some bit of take.

Speaker 6 (54:09):
Yeah, yeah, well I think I think the answer is
busy yes to both of those things. I think that
the trade has changed significantly because basically a combination of
you know, cameras, biometrics, sensors everywhere, plus dirt cheap storage,
plus analytic tools to make sense of all that information,

(54:31):
many of which are AI powered. All of that means
that the fundamental kind of trade craft of how you
go through an operation to let's say, recruit somebody and
run them in Moscow or Beijing or Damascus or wherever.
That's totally different now, right, So it has changed. It's
also true that you know, secrets that you know, maybe

(54:54):
in the past were not digital, they were physical. It
was paper, it was in people's heads. There's now a
lot more digitally to be stolen. Right, So there's there
are kind of you know, i'd say, massive changes to
the overall business. That said, I think it's still true
that having a really well placed human source, you know,

(55:15):
be they in the Kremlin with access to Vladimir Putin,
or be they in Ossan's presidential palace, or you know,
from the Russian standpoint, you think about my book the
seventh Floor, on the seventh floor at CIA's headquarters at Langley.
You know, having an agent or asset in those roles
is still an absolutely unique and extremely valuable thing for

(55:39):
a foreign intelligence service to have. And I don't think
the value of that is going away. I think that
it's getting more expensive to do that. I think it's
getting harder to do that, but it's still exceptionally valuable.
So a lot of the old school espionage stories that
we're doing on the pod, I think actually do have
present day kind of analogs or you know, relevant implications

(56:00):
because you know, you think one story we just did recently,
Adolf Tolkachev, the spy in Moscow at the height of
the Cold War. You know, we would kill to have
an adult Talkachev today embedded in Moscow in a kind
of key defense industries in Moscow telling us everything about
what the Russians are developing for the next twenty years.
We would love to have that today, So it's still
very relevant.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Oh, David, thank you so much for your time. It
has been a delight to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (56:24):
Well, thank you so much for having me. Wonderful to
be here.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
That was former CIA analyst now spy author David McCloskey.
His new book, The Seventh Floor, release this week, is
in stalls now. Our book reviewer John McKenzie will talk
about the book later in the show, and I forget
that lot of Dan is with me after eleven to
talk about her new book about diet culture and how
destructive it is. Entertainment is up next as twenty four
Past ten re Lex.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
It's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
It's a Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads US Talks it'd be.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Wickles has a terrific range of products, and this month
they're doing some great deals to make them even more affordable.
Now's your chance to buy two books and get twenty
percent of something really worth thinking about. If you have
a student in your household who needs some study guides,
pick up a couple of subjects and you'll get twenty
percent discount. But it's also a great deal if you're
looking for a story to get lost in. That twenty

(57:19):
percent off makes quite a difference. Wick Cals also have
deals on toys, games and puzzles. Buy one and get
one half price. They have all your favorites and lots
more you may never have heard of, but they're good
for hours of fun with an enormous range of toys,
games and puzzles all at buy one, get one half priced,

(57:39):
kids school stationary gifts and twenty percent off when you
buy two books. There really is something for everyone at Wickkels.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
For Sunday Session, we knows.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Pasters, Puss.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
A little bit of Kendrick Lamar and says it a
kick off our entertainment segment. I'm joined now by the
editor at Flex stock Code and Zaid Steve Neil.

Speaker 13 (58:18):
Good morning, Good morning. About as much Kendrick Lamar as
mainstream broadcast media can think.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
A very appropriate song there for Sunday morning, don't you
think it's also probably one of the only songs that
we can play of Kendrick Lamars because everything else has
explicitly Which.

Speaker 13 (58:33):
Does beg the question of how many bits of blank
dialogue we'll hear at the Super Bowl performance on Monday,
Kendrick playing for ten or fifteen minutes. I don't think
it's going to contain no and scendiary language. Maybe a
few strategic pauses.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Here, I'm sure. I'm sure that he will have been
well vetted, considering there's potentially one hundred and twenty million
people going to watch one of the biggest sporting events
of the year, and actually they could go wrong at
the Super Bowl could go wrong. I mean, some people
watch it for the football, but a lot of people
actually watch it for this halftime performance, and if you're
in America, for the Super Bowl ads which play as well.

Speaker 13 (59:12):
Yeah, absolutely super Bowl ads, but be a bunch of
new movie trailers the halftime performance. Also lots of cameras
trying to figure out what box Taylor Swift is in. Yeah,
lots of other things apart from the game. For those
that are actually following the Super Bowl itself, you'll probably
already know. It's the Kansas City Chiefs versus the Philadelphia
Eagles again again taking place in New Orleans at the

(59:33):
Caesars Super Dime. This is happening Monday afternoon. I was
thinking about a couple of other previous Super Bowl moments
the other day. There's, of course, the infamous Timberlake Jackson
air quote wardrobe malfunction, A quote will reveal it actually
was an error, Mia flipping off the camera and then

(59:53):
being served for fourteen million dollars, which apparently she got
offered a deal by the NFL that they'd take one
hundred percent of her earnings for life if she earned
more than two million dollars, and she was like, why
would I sign that? And Jay Z, who was working
with her management at the times, like, you should sign that.

(01:00:14):
I'm not signing all of my money forever away. But
then you know, maybe don't do the finger at the
Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, okay to America.

Speaker 13 (01:00:24):
They can't handle it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Do you now? Often these performances are filled with your
surprise guests and things like that. Do you think Kendrick
Lamar will do that or will he own this show?

Speaker 13 (01:00:34):
Kendrick's going out on tour with Scissor so that they
are confirmed or very highly suggested to making an appearance.
I don't know how starfilled this performance is likely to be.
He is the main show, He's the most gifted MC
in circulation at the moment. He's off the back of

(01:00:54):
five Grammy wins last week, all for Not Like Us,
All for the song that was the apex of his
rap battle with Drake last year and the one that
really kind of destroyed his opponent. Was very interesting to see.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Still going on.

Speaker 13 (01:01:08):
No we wrapped up the Drake Body's there's no stepka,
I don't think and if there is, there's allegedly still
still songs in the chamber so and the Grammars. We
saw the whole music industry standing up, celebrating and dancing
about Kendrick Lamar's absolute destruction of his opponent. There was

(01:01:30):
a sight to behold, especially if said opponent is Canadian
and on tour in Australia. While looking back at the
US and going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Good on you. Prime Video is screening a new comedy
from Will Ferrell and Reese with a Spoon. It's called
You're Quarterly Invited. I look, these two stars are absolutely
charming and very very likable. I thought it was a
bit hit and missed with the comedy.

Speaker 13 (01:01:53):
Yeah, it's a little bit, but it's one of these.
It's a throwback to the star driven mainstream comedies that
we hardly ever see anymore. Something about the alchemy of
putting two stars together, and it's becoming more than the
sum of its part. When they're on screen together, it's
about them and their interactions. The framing is a bit.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Of an eye roll.

Speaker 13 (01:02:13):
It's like a bit of a flashback comedy. Today. You
don't see films where one person's trying to book a
wedding venue and then a strange thing happens and it
turns out they've booked the same wedding view venue with
someone else. Maybe a sick com episode, but certainly not
a whole feature film. Nevertheless, they carried off because Will
Ferrell's a way to involve dad who's trying to make

(01:02:35):
things perfect for his daughter. Reese Witherspoon's a big control
freaking mess trying to prove that she's got her act together.
They don't, either of them, and I quite enjoyed it.
But yes, it's very much cut from the it's an
eighties comedy, yeah, dressed up in twenty twenties fashion.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
If you want something a little bit light for the weekend,
then it's a crowd please.

Speaker 13 (01:02:57):
I've I've been recommending it for maybe like a dusty
morning on the weekend where you're a bit slow getting
out of bed. I will just quickly mention, if you
do want to watch the super Bowl, it's being broke
Us free to air on TV and Z and also
on Sky TV via ESPN.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Brilliant, Thank you very much.

Speaker 13 (01:03:12):
Let's try to catch the halftime show. And if you do,
just want to catch the halftime show probably around two pm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Me okay, brilliant, I'm wroting that down.

Speaker 13 (01:03:21):
You're quarterly invited, classic three star comedy, enough laughs to
justify watching. But it's not reinventing anything. I just kind
of find it a bit of a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Charming nicely wrapped up twenty five to eleven News Talks EB.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on news Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Doctor Michelle Dickinson is with us now with our science
study of the week, and I just love the study
you you've brought into us because we have been eating
eggs for as long as we've been able to reach
up into an east and pluck a raw egg out
and eat it, and yet we're still doing experiments as
to how to cook or boil the perfect egg.

Speaker 15 (01:04:06):
And you only have to google, like the top chefs, right,
So if you look at Gordon Ramsey versus Jamie Oliver versus,
everybody's got their way of boiling an egg, right, And
I go, well, I put mine into a boiling pan
of water and then I do my six to ten minutes,
depending on how soft hard I wanted to be. My
husband is like, no, you have to put it into
cold water and then bring it to a boil, and

(01:04:26):
then he turns off the heat and then leaves it
for for a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Like there's everyoney has the little secret, you know, way
of doing it to get the perfect being for.

Speaker 15 (01:04:34):
Them, and I think everybody is still disappointed. So here's
where science can win.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Okay.

Speaker 15 (01:04:39):
The journal is a nature journal called Communications Engineering. It's
open source. Go have a look at it. It's filled
with pictures of egg cross sections.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
It's lovely.

Speaker 15 (01:04:47):
They have found the perfect way to cook an egg.
If you're boiling an egg, the perfect way to cook it.
And they have called this new method periodic cooking, and
they have an instruction there, and then they've done all
this scientific analysis on it. They've done FTIR spectroscopy to
look at the nature denail saturing of the proteins in

(01:05:07):
this or all the proteins cooked well. They've done TPA,
which is texture profile analysis, so is everything cooked the
perfect texture. They've done a quantitative description analysis which looks
at insights like color, texture, taste, So they have special
people who do this who can tell you is this
a beautiful egg or not. Then they've done metabolic analysis

(01:05:28):
to look at the nutritional profile of the egg and
they have found the perfect way to cook the perfect
egg where nutritionally it's better for you than standard boiling
of eggs. Textually it's gorgeous. And here's the thing. I
didn't know this, but if you have an egg, the
white of an egg cooks at eighty five degrees centigrade,
but yolk looks at sixty five degrees centigrade.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
I didn't realize.

Speaker 15 (01:05:52):
So the problem is when you rob it into boiling water,
the yolk will cook but the white won't. Or once
you've cooked the white, your yolk is ever cooked. And
that's the problem.

Speaker 16 (01:06:01):
So what do they do?

Speaker 15 (01:06:02):
How do you cook the perfect egg? Well, the drawback
is you need thirty two minutes, which is you know,
usually I lob it in, I go away and do
a million other things. When they come back and it's
slightly over cooked, it's a little bit green, but you know,
I got all my other trawes done. No, you have
to stand there and this is what you do. You
have a pot of boiling water and then you have
a pot of water that did set to exactly thirty
degrees celsius. So you have to have a thermometer in

(01:06:23):
there to check that. You take your egg, you take
a spoon. You spoon your egg into the boiling water.
Start your time are two minutes. After two minutes, you
take it out, You put it into thirty degrees the
water for two minutes, exactly two minutes, and then you
put it back into the boiling water for another two minutes.
You repeat that six times of hot cold, hot cold,
and what that does is stops there. It cooks the

(01:06:45):
egg white without overcooking the yolk, because what you're doing
is this sort of hot cold so that heats transferring
but not too much. Thirty two minutes later you have
the perfectly cooked egg where your egg white is not runny,
it's nice and solid, but your yolk is still soft.
You just so his wife sounds really funny. So the
authors aren't men and they go, this is perf way

(01:07:07):
perfect way to cook the egg. And I'm like, yes,
without a perfect life, because I don't know who has
thirty two minutes to be able to sit and every
two minutes move their egg. But then I got thinking
and actually it was really simple. So I have simple
components that I've bought from JCR before, and actually I
can build a little egg robot for less than a
hundred bucks. You can buy off the shelf components that
will do this for you, which is just a little

(01:07:28):
arm like you can do it with Lego blocks, and
you can there's Lego mindstorm pieces. So you could I go, well,
maybe I could do this and have my little robot
do this for me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
So I love it. So you were complaining about the
fit you have to have thirty two minutes, But now
you're actually thinking that you'll actually, you know, commit time
to building a robot to help you.

Speaker 15 (01:07:45):
I love the Jazi project.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
I think we'll all just keep cooking the eggs the
way we normally do. But look, if you've got thirty
two minutes, head to news Talk z ebat co Dot
and z Ford sledsh Sunday and you'll be able to
listen to this again and follow Michelle's instructions. Thank you
so much. We'll talk to you next week. It is
eighteen to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
The Sunday session Full show good cast on iHeartRadio powered by.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Newstalks and join me now is our resident chef, Mike
vander Ellison.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Would you spend thirty two minutes to boil an egg?

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Negative?

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
How long does it take you?

Speaker 6 (01:08:22):
I would.

Speaker 17 (01:08:23):
I would bring the water to the ball, I'll drop
the egg in and I cook it for five minutes.
After five minutes, take it out and then it's good
to go. So we boiled five minutes, easy as.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
There we go. Thank you very much. I like that approach.
You've got a very tasty sounding recipe for us today,
Urragan baronet's worth, a surloin and wilted greens. Wilted greens,
if you think about it, doesn't sound great, but there
is something about it which does sound yummy. I don't
know why it is.

Speaker 17 (01:08:49):
It is, it's just it seems like silver bean kale,
those sort of latah. You don't want to overcook them,
and nor do you want to have them raw. So
just heat up a pan, get it really hot, and
then just drop and a touch of wil and then
put your wilter greens in a little bit of flaky salt,
maybe a touch of water to get it going, and
then just saute sorte into it just collapses.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
So brilliant. There we go, brilliant. You've got a bit
of wind coming through there. We're going to get you
to whip through the recipe.

Speaker 17 (01:09:18):
I am sitting in the middle of a park.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Wonderful.

Speaker 17 (01:09:21):
It's nice though, It's a lovely day to sit in
a park. Yeah, absolutely, Okay, So this is a tarragon Burnett.
So what you want to do to start us off
is two hundred and eighty grams of unsalted butter. Just
pop that into a little saucepan and just slowly bring
that up to the ball to basically clarify or melt
the butter into another small little pot. You want to
make the reduction. So the reduction is the base for

(01:09:42):
the baronet sauce. So into a small pot, add half
a cup of malt vinegar, half a cup of water,
one packet of fresh charragan, but just reserve a couple
of the leaves because we're going to put them in afterwards.
So popping the stalks the whole lot into their half.
A white onion that's just been killed in slice too close,
a garlic, two bay leaves, six peppercorns, Pop that into

(01:10:03):
a pot, bring it up to the ball, similar it
for about five minutes, and then turn it down and
just basically turn it off after five minutes and just
let everything confuse together. Once it's all infused, strain out
all the bits that are in there, and you should
have about a third of a cup of reduction left.
If you haven't, you could just top it up a
little bit with water. Okay, So now we're going to
make the all important brunees. So bring a medium pot

(01:10:24):
of water to the boil, maybe half full of water
and then take a heat proof bowl, like a stain
of steel bowl, pop three egg yolks into it, and
then you'll burnt your burnet's reduction into it. And then
pop that bowl over the simmering heat and start to
whist straight away. It's going to take a couple of
minutes for these eggs to start to cook. Just don't stop.

(01:10:46):
Just keep whisking whisky whisky and whisking, and what will
happen is the eggs will just slightly start to come
away from the sides. That tells you that they're pretty
much cooked. Turn the water off, take your mounted butter
and slowly start to pour that in at the stage.
Just keep whisking, don't stop, keep whisking whisky whisky, and
just as you're about to add the last bit of butter,

(01:11:08):
you'll have what we call the butter cream right at
the end. Reserve that. Don't put that into the brunets
because it can be over salting, it can overpower the brunets, So.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Just sit there aside.

Speaker 17 (01:11:17):
Once it's done, take your brunos out of the boidly
water over the top of the pot. Take that away,
and then I add a teaspoon off what's the chaya
sauce or what's the shire? And then this is another
thing which is probably not traditional, but I actually added
a teaspoon of tomato sauce. Add that in check you see,
then a little bit of salt, maybe some crack pepper,
and then cover that and clean film straight away. Leave

(01:11:38):
it somewhere warm, and that bruneos will stay good as
long as it stays somewhere warm and you don't allow
it to get too cold because then the butter will reset.
That will stay good for like two to three hours
before you need it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Thank you so much, Mike, Go and enjoy some park life.
You can grab that recipe from good from scratch dot
coda in z or you can get it from Newstorg
zdb dot codo dot in z Ford Slash Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wig Girls
for the best selection of grape breeds.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
Use talk set the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Join me now to talk well, missus Eron O'Hara, Good morning,
good morning. So February is move your butt for bow
cancer month. That's got a ring to it.

Speaker 14 (01:12:20):
It does absolutely it's about getting out there, moving your
body and walking through one hundred ki kilometers through the
month of February to raise some money for bow cancer,
which is definitely needed in this country. I think people
don't realize the high risk of bow cancer is the
second highest cause of cancer deaths in New Zealand, actually

(01:12:42):
higher than prostate and breast cancer combined, which is huge.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
That is huge, so really quickly actual if people are
interested in doing that, move your butt dot org dot
nz is the website to go to.

Speaker 14 (01:12:54):
Yeah, you can sign up, start moving your body, which
is getting in any movement and raise some money for them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
So how do you know that your colon is healthy?

Speaker 14 (01:13:03):
Well, regular bow movements is one big of colon functions,
so I think just being aware of getting regular bowel movements,
which I would classify constipation as less than three bowl
movements per week.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
So if that is you.

Speaker 14 (01:13:18):
Then starting to think about how to get your coalon
functioning properly is really important for your overall health and
also your coalon health as well. But other signs can
be gastric symptoms, so things like bloating, pain, cramping, diarrhea,
or more bowl movements than sort of three or four.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
A day, loose stools.

Speaker 14 (01:13:39):
All those things are signs that there's something not quite
right with your digestive function and maybe looking into what
you can do for that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
So when you talk about the digestive function, explain a
little bit about what the colon does actually.

Speaker 14 (01:13:52):
Well, the colon's responsible for processing food that has been
digested and forming the stools and also removing some of
the fluid from it, so getting that stool formation. But
it's also a big part of the microbiome, so that's
where a lot of bacteria starts breaking down food and
also through the large intestine.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Okay, so do we need to do cleanses to keep
it healthy and happy or well, I feel.

Speaker 14 (01:14:21):
Like that's a bit of a fad thing to do.
Like the gut in the body is amazing at self cleansing,
and I don't think we need to be over the
top and doing juice cleanses and all these cleanses that
are really putting lots of laxatives through our digestive system,
but instead just looking at getting good gut function, and
that's going to be your best protection is making sure

(01:14:43):
you're doing all the things on a daily basis rather
than kind of eating whatever and then doing a cleanse
and then going back to your old habits, but instead
looking at what are good things for keeping the colon
functioning well, And top of the list is always fiber,
and I think that making sure you're getting enough variety
of whole foods, plants, and not necessarily going on a

(01:15:06):
plant they started of being a vegan, but just eating
more plants and vegetables, so getting more fruits, vegetables and
out seeds, all those grains, the roffage also whole grains
like kind of working like a little brush through the colon,
really helping to move everything through, preventing constipation, but also
helping also get good bow stool formations as well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
I'm sure that there are medical reasons why people still
have enemies, but is that still a thing that people
do for to cleanse the colon.

Speaker 14 (01:15:35):
There's definitely a lot of people that would do that,
or doing the whole colon colon cleansers where you can
go to a clinic and have your colon.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Cleans I'm not a huge fan, to be honest.

Speaker 14 (01:15:46):
I feel like it really disrupts the gut function and
it's more about how the gun gut functions on a
daily basis, and if we do those sorts of things,
it actually sometimes makes the gut a little bit lazy,
and we really just want to make sure we're more
like we're training the gut to have a good function,
which is by what we're eating, So reducing our red
mat eating fiber, eating more plant based foods, eating more

(01:16:09):
fermented foods, which I know is one of your big
favorites as we were, sour craud invented foods. Yeah, so
all feeding all those good bugs and keeping all the
good nutrients into the body rather than strapping everything out
with an en.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I wish I could say that I eat them because
because of all the goodness it gives me, But actually
I just love the taste. This is an easy way
to throw some taste into things.

Speaker 16 (01:16:30):
Erin.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Thank you so much. If you're interested in Move your
Butt for Bow Cancer. That website again is move your
Butt dot org dot NZ talk next week.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
The Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks at b.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Thank you very much for your text. High FRANCHIESCA to
add to the world egg dilemma, did you know that
they take longer at high higher altitude as the aeristhon
and no, I did not fast leading. Thank you very much.
I have got a lot of time for lot of
Dan author of books such as Missus D Is Going Without.
She opened up her own life and shared her experience
to make it easier for us all to talk about

(01:17:09):
our relationship with alcohol, and now she is doing the
same thing for diet culture. Her latest book is called
Missus d Is Not On a Diet. If you're fed
up with worrying about your body, you're going to want
to hear a lot of story. Next, we're going to
finish with a little bit of Lead Zeppelin. The new
documentary Becoming Lead Zeppelin is in cinemas now. My producer
has been to see it. She loved it. Her review

(01:17:30):
great watch for music and Lead Zep fans. So much
good archive footage, previously unseen footage, an unedged an interview
with John Bonham as well, so great insight into the
band's early days. There you go and joy back shortly.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkins and Wiggles for
the best election of great breaths used.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Talk zet be.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Coming up this hour on the Sunday Session, Jason Pine
makes a prediction on the Super Bowl. Megan Singleton has
an update on development at Auckland Airport, plenty of good
news for travelers, and Joan covers off two of my
favorite reads of the summer. David Balderci and David mccloskey's latest.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Releases for Sunday Session, Lotter.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Dan is no stranger to publicly sharing her life. In
twenty eighteen, Lotter shared her experience with alcohol, admitting she
was an alcoholic. She has since become a go to
voice on alcohol issues and living sober. But after quitting alcohol,
her focus switched to her weight. After some weight gain,
Lotter discovered an online diet guru. What followed was two

(01:18:49):
years of extreme dieting and obsessive behavior around food. Lotter
has written about her very personal journey with diet culture
in her new book Missus d Is Not on a
Diet and Lotter Dan joins me now from Wellington. Good morning, Lotter.

Speaker 16 (01:19:03):
Mar Dina, how are you really good to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Talk to you? I love this memoir based approach you use.
It's brave, it's personal, it's so relatable. Can you set
the scene for us, how did sobriety affect your diet
and body.

Speaker 16 (01:19:21):
I mean, now that I look back, having been through
the nightmare that was this extreme diet, not that badly. Honestly,
it was, you know a little bit of weight game
because I was turning to food when I would normally
be having bubbles to celebrate, or you know, whisky to commiserate,
or red wine because it's Friday, I would have a
foody treat instead. So I was putting on a little

(01:19:43):
bit of weight, but not extreme. I just had this
constant which I'd had all my life, you know, sort
of paranoia I suppose about putting on weight and not
being super thin. And this diet guru just sort of
entered my world at the perfect time, and she was
talking about food addiction and I thought, well, that's me
because I've had alcohol addiction. And next minute I'm down

(01:20:05):
a rabbit hole of and how which I've now for
some reason, completely exposed to everyone in a book.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
Well, we very much appreciate it. Tell us a little
bit about this diet that you were on. What did
it entail?

Speaker 16 (01:20:22):
It was cutting out entire food groups, so no flour,
no sugar, and it was no snacking rigidly, so only
ever allowing any food to pass through my lips three
times a day. And then this was the final step,
was the weighing all of your portion sizes. So those

(01:20:44):
three meals I had to weigh, and we're talking weighing
the car at, weighing the cherry tomato, weighing the oat milk.
So it was just so full on, but it worked,
and I just got so skinny, and you know, the praise,
it was just, oh my god, it was incredible. So
I kept going and then you know, it just I

(01:21:04):
just couldn't just couldn't make it work, could stop working.
And I tried every trick in the book, and I
couldn't make it work.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
I was going to say, how easy was that to maintain?
Because you did manage to maintain it for a couple
of years, which is quite impressive.

Speaker 16 (01:21:16):
Well, that's what happens. And because because even though my
whole life I had been influenced by this diet culture
that tells us we need to be skinny, I actually
hadn't done a really extreme diet before, so my body
was in a bit of shock and just kind of
dropping the weight and letting me do it. But then
what I now know is that biology fights back. It

(01:21:37):
thinks that my body literally thinks it's in a famine,
and it starts working to combat that. And so you know,
it turns against you or for you in the form
of cravings and then binging, so physical cravings, mental and
emotional cravings and obsession. And then I was just I
just could not stick to the rules. And man, I

(01:21:59):
tried everything, but I just couldn't. And then I started
waking up to the fact that this is the most
lightly outcome of diet. And then I got angry.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
So I shouldn't laugh. But I love the way you're
just so wonderfully honest about it because and this is
this is the thing. I think it's so relatable. What
when you started wabbling on that diet, what impact did
that have on you kind of mentally, what kind of
in a dialogue was going on as you were struggling
to stick to this way and determined to remain super skinny.

Speaker 16 (01:22:33):
I mean, it was terrible and it was really depressing, honestly,
and I can't overstate that, and it might sound people
might think I'm over exaggerating, but a day after day
when you let yourself down. You make a promise, I'm
not going to snack. I'm not going to have, you know,
the biscuits. I'm not gonna eat popcorn when we go
to the movies, and then you do, and then you
feel guilty, and then you have this terrible kind of

(01:22:54):
flip flop in your mind of I want to do this,
but I'm not, but I'm not doing it, and it
slowly erodes your sort of sense of self and the
shame and the guilt. And it was so reminis of
my drinking days, the end of my drinking days. And
here I was supposedly outwardly this fabulous, you know, achieving,

(01:23:14):
sober person, and yet I was doing secretive, shameful behaviors
around food. And it just killed me. It was awful.
And when I wrote that chapter in the book, the
Painful Chapter, my editor actually said to me, you know,
this is a bit depressing. Can we lighten it up?
And I got tearful when I read a note and
I said to her, I actually need this to read

(01:23:36):
depressing because it was and it underpins everything that came
after that, and the fight that I've been doing in
my head to push back against dark culture and accept
my body which has fat on it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
At what point did you go enough is enough?

Speaker 16 (01:23:53):
It was kind of a slowish There wasn't aha moment
like with the booze where I went enough enough and
I stopped drinking that day and I never picked up again.
It was a slower kind of awakening to this anti
diet movement and all of the wonderful people out there
who are already critiquing and pushing back against dark culture
and with that kind of energized me and fascinated me.

(01:24:18):
And so you know, I slowly kind of got to
that point of enough is enough. I'm going to jump
off the dike cliff and just fight back and start eating.
But it's so much harder because you can't just stop eating.
You have to moderate and you have to eat every day,
and so it's a more of a complex journey.

Speaker 9 (01:24:34):
Really.

Speaker 16 (01:24:35):
I reckon stopping diving and stopping drinking and just learning
how to make peace with food and sort of trust
your body and accept your body and all the rest
of it. It's ongoing. I'm not cured. I mean, I
write at the end of the book, I'm not like
the perfect person telling you how to fix this. It's
an ongoing thing. But I've got some techniques now and

(01:24:56):
they work. I had far fewer sort of shame spirals
or bad body image days than I used to, but
they do still come.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Lottter, what did you learn about DIK culture that shocked
you the most.

Speaker 16 (01:25:06):
It's just based on lies. It's based on lies. The
lie that diets work eighty five to ninety five percent
of the time, and this has been proven again and
again through research. Diets do not work because your body fights,
and the most likely outcome of a diet is that
you're going to gain back not only all the way
you lost, but probably more, and that usually happens two

(01:25:28):
to three years after you started. So that's the first
big lie. And then the second big lie is that
fat is always unhealthy, and it's not. There are a
lot of fat people who are really healthy, and we
just look at a fat body and we think that's
an unhealthy, weak world person and it's just not true.
And so there's all these gloriously you know, strong and

(01:25:50):
amazing people who are fat, who live these diminished lives
because they're being judged for it, and it just breaks
my heart. So yeah, it's just it's an absolute crock
of bull and we all need to be waking up
and pushing back.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
And the other assumption that we have about weights that
if you're skinny, you know, means you're more successful.

Speaker 16 (01:26:10):
Well, that's right, and yeah, and we automatically assume a
skinny person is super healthy. When I was really skinny
on that diet, I was the most obsessed and messed
up about food than I'd ever been. I mean I
was literally twenty four to seven just thinking about it
and controlling it. I wasn't healthy at all. I wasn't
freely living and connecting with all the people around me. So,

(01:26:32):
you know. But now I don't want to demonize people
who are skinny. It's really complicated and it's really individual.
But I just think we have a kind of blanket
belief around fat which is really just not fear and
needs to change.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
Should we comment on somebody's weight, Like, if you've got
a friend who you know has been working really hard
they've lost a bit of weight, is it appropriate in
twenty twenty five to make a comment about how good
they look or how fit they look.

Speaker 16 (01:27:03):
I want to say no, Yeah, I want to say no,
because you don't don't know they might be really unwell,
they might be really mentally unwell, they might be really
physically unwell. You just don't know what's going on that's
caused that person to lose weight. There's ways that you
can compliment without it being about the weight loss. You
can say you look really strong, I love your outfit,
your hair's glow, and you can compliment people, but the

(01:27:25):
automatic and look, I've done it, and I still in
my head sometimes I go, oh, they look good, you know,
like a celebrity, and then I have to go no,
that's the conditioning that just weight loss is always the
most attractive thing. It's very hard to combat because it's
so deeply embedded.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
A lot or without diminishing your story, there are women
out there and men dealing with fat on a larger scale.
Shall we say, what impact does dark culture have on them?

Speaker 16 (01:27:53):
Well, like I said, it diminishes their whole experience of life.
And I interview people in the book who talk to this.
They are constantly feeling bad about themselves, beating up on themselves,
not putting on top, not going swimming, not moving like
doing the dance classes that they used to lob or
the sport because they get looks or they just feel

(01:28:15):
self conscious. So it does just diminish people's lives. And
it's that, like I say, as heartbreaking look and there
are you also can't say that being fat all the
time is a good thing, Like there are health risks
associated with fatness. But what they now say is that
actually fitness is the key rather than fatness. So if

(01:28:39):
you are worried or if the doctor, well, I mean,
think about what the doctors telling you anyway, but just
think about moving your body. Don't think about weight loss,
think about your heart. Think about moving your body, getting
your heart rate up, and that actually is probably going
to have more benefit to your health than focusing on
trying to lose weight.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
Look, we're middle aged women, lotter dealing with a few
lumpy and wobbly bits, and I'm pretty relaxed about that.
But you know, I've got a just turn sixteen year
old daughter growing up with social media, and she says
to me that it doesn't matter where you go on
social media or the Internet and things, your algorithm will
have a diet for you and it's hidden as fashion tips.

(01:29:18):
I mean, it's just really tricky for younger generations too,
isn't it.

Speaker 16 (01:29:22):
Oh it is. And I interview this wonderful young woman,
Heath in my book, who talks about her eating disorder
and how social media influenced her. You know what I
eat in a day? Video she was watching and it
was like a smoothie and a letter sleep and it
just got in her head age fourteen, and sent her
off on this track. Look, what I would say is, yes,
the algorithm, and you know, capitalism and adds for this

(01:29:46):
net that's unhealthy will find its way in. But you
can train your algorithm. You can actively seek out the
good content. And there are amazing content creators who are
creating sort of anti diet body positive or body neutral,
which is the other thing. You don't have to love
your body every day. You just have to be grateful
for it is.

Speaker 9 (01:30:06):
It is.

Speaker 16 (01:30:07):
It's the least like one of my lovely favorite lines
is my body is the least interesting thing about me.
It's just there. It enables me to do what I do.
So yeah, I would say, find accounts, follow them, like,
watch the videos all the way through, so the algorithm
starts to learn you're interested in there, and you can
shift some of what you're getting through your social media

(01:30:28):
feeds Lotter.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Thank you for the honesty once again, and the depressing
episodes and the uplifting chapters as well and everything. Really
appreciate nice to talk to you today.

Speaker 16 (01:30:39):
Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
That was a lot of down there. Missus d is
not on a diet is in stores now. It's nineteen
past eleven. We've got the Sunday Session Panel up next.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
Grab recover.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca, Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of us talk.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
S'd be and joining me.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Today on the Sunday Session Panel. Broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Good morning and residents Atwope's partners Ed mcnight, how are
you ed.

Speaker 9 (01:31:09):
We're doing well, Francesca.

Speaker 6 (01:31:11):
Great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
I'm very pleased to hear right. We have seen a
lot of very swift action out of the White House
since Donald Trump came into power a few weeks ago,
a lot of headlines around both President Trump and Elon Musk.
My question for you this morning, Wilhelmina, is who are
you keeping a closer eye on who concerns you the
most out of those two?

Speaker 16 (01:31:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
Look, what a wild time to be in the US
and what a wild time to be alive. Just in general,
with everything going on, I think, out of the two,
both are outrageous. But I definitely think I've got my
eye closer on Musk. He seems to be a little
bit more unhinged, maybe more unpredictable. And I think, well,
both come with massive followings, huge financial resources. Musks outstrips

(01:31:54):
Trump's by far. I think he's got two hundred million
plus followers on social media compared to Trump eight to
ten million. You know, he's the richest man in the world,
four hundred worth, four hundred billion US dollars. I just
feel like he has so much resource and so much
weight behind him. And there's a quote that I think
rings really true. I think that even while Trump might
be the head of the White House, I suspect that

(01:32:16):
Musk could potentially end up being the neck and he
can turn the head whichever way he wants, which is worrying.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
Trump would be disappointed in that view. Well, I mean,
but of course there was that time. Of course, everyone's
talking about the time cover as well ed, which has
Elon Musk sitting behind the President's desk, which the president
claims he's pretty blaxed about.

Speaker 6 (01:32:37):
Here he is.

Speaker 9 (01:32:37):
And what I have to say is, if you're a
publican right now, if you're a Trump voter, you'd be
really happy because there's been a lot of swift action
and people are saying, well, this is exactly what we
voted for.

Speaker 5 (01:32:47):
Now.

Speaker 9 (01:32:48):
The big thing with Musk's government of or sorry, department
of government efficiency is whether that actually turns into something
a bit more. They're talking a big game about saving
a lot of money. We haven't seen a lot of
savings yet because it's early days. So what I'm keeping
my eye on is the relationship between Musk and Trump.
So Trump's saying, look, if Elon tries to do anything

(01:33:10):
a bit too weird, look we'll make sure that doesn't happen.
So I'm keeping my eye on the relationship between them
and what sort of policies actually get implemented it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
As an economist, do you think that is a good
idea for governments to have a government of efficiency?

Speaker 9 (01:33:25):
As a general principle, you'd have to say yes, because
the governments are so enormous. You've got to understand that
the deficit of the US government is enormous at the moment,
over a trillion dollars USD. It is an insane amount
of money, and so saying, look, are there some efficiencies
in there? Can we save a bit of money? I

(01:33:46):
think that's probably a good idea. Overall, what Trump's probably
trying to do is decrease spending so that he can
get through his tax cups that he wants to put
in place, or rather he doesn't want the ones he's
already put in place to be taken away.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Well, Amana is a really interesting relationship for us too,
from a far sort of observing things. You know, At
first I was like, well, I'm more concerned about Elon Musk.
He's not elected, he's been put in there. He doesn't
have to get votes next time. But of course this
is President Trump's last opportunity to be president as well,
so he has nothing to lose. They're both kind of
going to be free wheeling with this. You know, we'll wait,

(01:34:22):
We'll wait and see how everything pans out. Of course,
a lot of things are being held up now in
the courts. I'd like to talk to the two of
you about lotto as well. Selling instant keewee tickets with
no chance of winning the big prize. So this is
a controversial rule change. I don't know how often you
pick up a scratchy Willhemina, But would you pick it
up if you knew that the big prize, the big

(01:34:42):
money prize, is actually already been won and you don't
have a chance to win it.

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
Look, my mother in law puts scratches in all of
our Christmas crackches every Christmas Day, and I think this
really actually explains why no one won a single thing,
because probably the big prizes had already disappeared.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Not that I've ever.

Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
Won a scratchy in my life, I do think it's
a little cheeky, and the interest of actually maintaining trust
for consumers, I think it would be better for them
to act actually maybe publicly display that information. You know,
you know, they can still obviously sell them, but I
think that as long as that information is displayed and
then a consumer or customer can make an informed decision
before actually buying, because ultimately people lose trust.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
If they find that out, they could stop buying.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
And I guess we've got to remember as well as
that a large proportion of the money.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
That goes to the Lotteries.

Speaker 4 (01:35:27):
Commission through the sales of things like a lot of
tickets and scratches goes back into communities, so people lose
trust and then they stop buying. Then there's less money
to go around. So I think it's just about being
really forthcoming with information and you know, having that trusting
relationship with your customers.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
It's kind of a bit sneaky, I think. I think, Well,
I mean, it's kind of hit that on the head
there if it is a bit cheeky. But if you're
honest and open about the process and how it works,
then you know, at least we're not throwing a whole
lot of old scratches in the bin.

Speaker 9 (01:35:56):
Well, actually, I take a slightly different view. I can't
believe that this was ever policy that they would take
these tickets out because the way that they pay for
the big prizes is by selling lots and lots of
techts that don't end up winning. And that is the
reason why the margins for Lotto end Z for instant
Kiwi tickets is a lot lower. If you look at
how much money they pay out for every dollar Lotto

(01:36:19):
en Z collects overall, they pay out fifty four cents.
So if you put one hundred dollars into lotto, you're
going to get it on average fifty four dollars back.
But instant Kiwi tickets historically have actually paid out more
to consumers because they've had this policy, and so I
think this is probably a move to try and increase
their margins. But I can't believe they ever had this policy.

(01:36:41):
Of course they should be selling those tickets because that's
how they fund the big prizes.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
You put the money spin on it. There we go, right.
I was absolutely delighted to read an article talking about
early Birds club, about these early boot clubs. So basically
this is for people probably slightly younger than I am,
but I'm all in, I'm really keen for this to
go out dancing really early and ended about ten o'clock.

(01:37:09):
Because of course, every young person knows that you don't
go to town to go dancing until about eleven or twelve.
You know, that kind of world starts really late. But
of course you get a little bit older and you
know you have to get up and go to work
the next day, but you still love to dance. You
don't do it anymore. So these clubs are saying to people, hey, look,
come on in, come on and at six you're home.
At ten, come and have a dance and a night out.

(01:37:31):
How good's that? I think this is a brilliant idea,
will Amina.

Speaker 3 (01:37:35):
Oh huge vibe.

Speaker 4 (01:37:36):
I'm a big fan of a bit of a day party.
Start early, finish early, But often I say that during
the daytime, and then I'll end up dragging myself and
you know, through the front door at two or three am,
regretting my life choices.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
But I think it's great.

Speaker 4 (01:37:49):
Start early, finish early, get a good eight or nine
hours sleep past towards I think it's I think it's
a great thing. And also it's summertime. We've got to
make the most of the sunshine. I know it's lighter
until later, but we've got to make the most of
the day.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Oh bless you, Wilhelmina. I think you're just sort of
kind of been very kind to me, being slightly older
than you, going this is awesome. Let's go dancing at
sex and behind my dead I think you're just being
very sweet there. And are you Are you still able
to go out till two am in the morning.

Speaker 9 (01:38:19):
If you're talking to me two years ago, I would
have said yes, I was still allowed at two am,
three am. But I have really changed over the last
couple of years. Francesca, I'd be out with you at
six pm on the dance floor. One thing I'd just
say about some of these parties at the moment, they're
not open to CIS men and so I'd love to
see if we ever did this at New Zealand that
it was opened up to all genders and people.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
I wouldn't be putting any restrictions on it. I'd be like,
if you want to dance, you can come and dance,
doesn't matter how you dance. I used to go to
dancing in the dark. Have you ever heard of that?

Speaker 16 (01:38:49):
Oh, tell us about it?

Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
Okay. So basically that these would be held in halls
around Auckland and they would black them out. These would
also be at like seven or eight o'clock a seven
or eight pm and you go in and they completely
black them out and you're not allowed to even pull
out your cell phone and have it, you know, and
have the cell phone light that have awesome DJs and
your dance for an hour an hour and a half
in the dark and then go home. So how do

(01:39:12):
you not take an eye out?

Speaker 6 (01:39:13):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
No, no, I don't know. Somehow everyone just seems to
work out their little personal space. So you can just
let loose and dances badly as you want to, really
good music and have a good time and then go
home and go here. I don't really care, but no
one saw me, didn't matter how badly I dance. How
good's that?

Speaker 16 (01:39:32):
How good?

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
Dance like no one's watching because no one actually can?

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
Yeah good, it's yeah. It used to get a bit tricky,
guys when you would be trying to find the bathrooms
at the back of the hall. It would dare no,
that would be a bit awkward, but crawling around walls,
but we got there in the end. Willhelmina and Ed
McKnight lovely to have you with us. Yeah, I got
the feeling that Ed would probably be out dancing with

(01:39:56):
me early, but I think Wilhelmine is still got a
bit of nightlife yet. It is a twenty eight two
twelve coming next. Jason Pine is with us and the
back Caps are back in action in Pakistan, so we
will be talking cricket and Super Bowl and trying to
work out what is going on in the sale GP

(01:40:17):
as well your news talks at b.

Speaker 3 (01:40:22):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Rudkin on News Talks at Baby.

Speaker 3 (01:40:28):
No, we got bed.

Speaker 4 (01:40:31):
You know we used to bed.

Speaker 16 (01:40:36):
Because Baby, now we got there.

Speaker 9 (01:40:40):
I can't take you back.

Speaker 2 (01:40:41):
Look where I'm there's a little bit of Taylor Swift
and Kendrick Lamar there, and of course Kendrick Lamar is
going to be doing the halftime performance at the super
Bowl tomorrow. The super Bowl is one of the biggest
sporting events of the year. Joining me now is Jason Pine.
Good morning, good morning. Will you be watching tomorrow?

Speaker 3 (01:40:59):
Yes?

Speaker 18 (01:41:00):
I will, I will.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
Yes.

Speaker 18 (01:41:01):
I like super Bowl, the pageantry of it, all the
game for my but incidental in many ways that you know,
especially in the United States where a lot of people
just tune in for the halftime show. As you say,
all the commercials there are always a lot of fun
to watch as well. But yeah, on the on the field,
the Kansas City Chiefs Travis Kelcey, of course, the partner

(01:41:21):
of that singer whose name escapes me, who you just
played is u is part of the Kansas City Chiefs
team who will try and make it three in a
row against the Philadelphia Eagles tomorrow. I think it's a
pretty tight contest always pretty hard to pick, but yeah,
I'll have eyes on it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Yeah it is people. Some people are a little bit disappointed.
It's sort of the same final as we had, is
the same final that we had two years ago. That
doesn't really worry me because I'm a bit like you
only watched American football once a year, Torow.

Speaker 18 (01:41:50):
You know it's funny, isn't because you watch it and
then you think, oh, this is quite good, but then
you've got to wait for ages for the new seas,
by which time you've lost interest.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
It rolls around and I go, oh, hang on, can
someone remind me how this how what the rules are again?
How this works? And then I get my head around it,
And then a year later, I'm going, could someone remind
me how this works?

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
No, no, I'm looking forward to it. I'm a bit
like you, though, And I'm going to talk about the
ads in just a moment. But it's it's the spectacle
of it. It's the halftime performance. I mean, the game
itself just takes so long to play it out, doesn't it.

Speaker 18 (01:42:19):
It is a yeah, well, it starts on the light
and ends in the dark most of the time, so
it gives you an indication. But look, it's massive, as
we know in the US, like Super Bowl Sunday is
as it is over there. Just absolutely enormous, just dwarfs
anything else as far as sport is concerned. The other
sports might think they're big, but then nothing can can

(01:42:40):
compare to Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
So yeah, sometimes with these sporting events you've got to
have a villain, and it seems like sort of Kansas
City Chiefs have taken on that role this year. So
I'm going to support them and hope that they actually
managed to pull us off three in a row.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
All right, well, I'll be thinking of you if they do.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
We're playing cricket again. Who knew we had an ODI
last night in Pakistan.

Speaker 18 (01:43:01):
Yeah, this is ahead of the Champions Trophy which is
coming up starts in the middle of the week after
the one ahead, So some warm up games for New
Zealand and a good victory too. Glenn Phillips with his
first ever od I hundred, a seventy eight run win
over Pakistan.

Speaker 14 (01:43:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (01:43:16):
Look, it it's so funny. I was saying yesterday on
the show. It's just so weird not having any international
cricket or certainly red ball stuff here in New Zealand
at the moment. But yeah, we can stay up overnight
if the fancy takes us and watch our boys over
in Pakistan and the UAE. So yeah, champions trophy in
about ten days time. We'll look forward to that rolling around.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
I got a bit hooked on SALGP when it was
in Auckland and have been following it since. But the
Black Files can't quite get themselves together this season.

Speaker 18 (01:43:42):
No, and yesterday they had a big noseedive, didn't they
In the third of the four fleet racers yesterday couldn't
race in the fourth one they wrecked their rudder. Apparently
it's okay, but heading into day two in Sydney, it's
looking highly unlikely that the Black Falls will make the final.
I know that they were determined, you know, to reverse
what happened in Auckland when Australia came to our waters

(01:44:04):
and won over here. That problem, in fact, I think
almost definitely won't happen. I don't think there are enough
points left for New Zealand to make it into the final,
the three boat final later on this afternoon. But it's
a great spectacle Sydney Harbor, you know, iconic harbor around
the world. Yeah, i' we're watching five o'clock this afternoon
we get back underway.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Brilliant, Thank you so much. Jason. Jason Pine will be
with us at midday with Weekend Sport. Just talking about
the Super Bowl ads. We won't get those here on
our broadcast. If you're watching via TVNZ and things are
they just play in the US, which you think, Gosh,
I've just been eight million dollars for that thirty second
commercial spot. You'd like to think you're getting a bit

(01:44:46):
of a global audience. Apparently about one hundred and twenty
million people are predicted to watch this game. Big money involved, right,
So eight million dollars for a thirty second commercial spot.
You pay about four million dollars for a spot before
and after the game. If you're at the game and
you want one of those lovely boxes, they're going to
set you back a million dollars. So there's an awful
lot of money that goes into this spectacle. But you

(01:45:08):
can google all the Super Bowl ads and watch them
and look, to be honest with you, over the years,
considering how much money, how many celebrities, and how much
time and ething in creativity goes into them. I haven't
looked the very funny this year, though. They are some crackers,
and I did go down a bit of a rabbit
hole and spend half an hour on our wonderful National

(01:45:29):
Day of Celebration, my tonguey Day, and watched a lot
of them. So if you do want some light entertainment
and you like people like Nick Offerman, or you want
to see Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal remake that famous
scene from when Harry met Sally and Kasus Delli this
time though, for Mayonnaise, ben Affleck is back and Dunkin
Donuts joined by Jeremy Strong. There are some really fun ads.

(01:45:54):
It's not such a bad way to kill a bit
of time today. I will just say though, that you
can learn quite a bit from these ads and who
was paying money and what it says about the economy
and retail. Interesting. Cars and truck brands are really struggling.
So in the past many of them have run spots,
and very very few of them are able to do

(01:46:15):
that this year. But wireless providers and streaming services have
increased their share of advertising, and the rest of the
advertisers seem to be bear junk food tech and delivery services.
So clearly we like a simple life. All things that
make our life more simple. It is twenty to twelve
News Talks at.

Speaker 1 (01:46:33):
B the Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks AB Travel with Windy WU Tours Where
the World Is Yours book Now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
Megan Singleton is with me now to talk travel. Good morning,
Good morning travelers heading us through Auckland Airport are going
to be very excited with the segment today because there's
been a lot of issues and there's a lot of
work going on out there, and there's been a lot
of hold ups, but it looks like it's all development
is moving forward. Tell us what to expect.

Speaker 16 (01:47:05):
Yeah, it's a long game.

Speaker 8 (01:47:07):
But I was at a lunch last week where we
heard from the commercial manager of Auckland Airport, so I
gleaned a few bits and pieces out to share with
your listeners today because if anyone's been to Auckland Airport
since they've opened the new transport hub, but you've probably
been caught up in traffic going out to the lights
at the flagpole, which he hadn't even noticed, hasn't been

(01:47:29):
flying a flag for years.

Speaker 16 (01:47:30):
Actually, asked him that that's.

Speaker 8 (01:47:32):
Not in his wheelhouse, but hopefully someone's listening will go, oh, yes,
why isn't that flagpole flying a flag AnyWho. So what's
going to happen there is that the ride shares and
taxis and buses will go back to using the road
nearest to the terminal doors, and it'll just be private
vehicle drop off and pack ups. We'll be using the

(01:47:52):
main transport hub. I don't think that really solves all
of the problems, but is going to solve quite a
few because it'll take those taxis out.

Speaker 16 (01:48:01):
Of the way.

Speaker 3 (01:48:02):
Now.

Speaker 16 (01:48:02):
He did talk about.

Speaker 8 (01:48:04):
The development between the domestic terminal and the international terminal
and explain that the prop planes so they service our
regional airports like Hawks Bay and stuff, Palmerston North TAPO,
they will stay in the what is the old domestic
terminal and there will be a new wing of gates
built over it.

Speaker 16 (01:48:24):
To the international.

Speaker 8 (01:48:25):
Because what's happening at the moment is travelers from the
South Island prefer if they're going to Europe or something,
prefer to hop through Sydney and Auckland because they literally
have to walk the green line or get themselves from
domestic to international, and they have to allow the airlines
have to allow at least a two hour two and
a half hour window for that to physically occur.

Speaker 16 (01:48:46):
So that's going to be amazing.

Speaker 8 (01:48:47):
You'll get off in the same terminal, you'll walk across
to your gate, and you'll fly out through the you'll
go through the regular customs and fly out to the international.

Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
But that's great, Megan. I mean, I know that you
travel like I do to regional centers around the country
quite a bit. And I know it was Christmas, but
over Christmas the regional end of the Auckland domestic airport
there was standing room only. It was chaos.

Speaker 16 (01:49:11):
Yes, it was chaos.

Speaker 8 (01:49:13):
So that's going to be just US regionals, right so now, yeah, no,
that was the cap that could still well be chaos.
The other thing is that did you know that the
main international runway or the runway I think it's for
all planes, is concrete. It was built over fifty years ago.
It is going to need replacing in the next five years.
So to do that they have to actually build a

(01:49:33):
temporary runway, which they're going to do on the current taxiway,
which at the moment is full of dog legs. And
they have to straighten that and reseal that and get
that sorted to become like a temporary runway to replace
the concrete runway. They've got a lot of things on
the go over there, but I just thought it. Look,
it's really interesting. Things are happening. It will get easier.

(01:49:54):
And oh, another really exciting piece of news. He said
that they fully expect direct services between Auckland and India
in the next eighteen to twenty four months.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
So that thank you so so much, Meghan. I appreciate that.
Long game is what I take from that, folks, is
a long game. But things are moving forward, which is
all good. It is thirteen to twelve books with.

Speaker 3 (01:50:15):
Wikles for the Best Election of Great Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Joan mackenzie is with me now, good morning, hello, and
you got two fabulous books this morning. The first one
is by David McCloskey, who, of course we had on
the show earlier today. I've read his book. I love
his writers. He's just got this and as we now know,
you know, he was a CIA analyst, so what he

(01:50:39):
writes about he knows about. But he really does give
you a sense of the culture at the CIA in
his story. Yes, he does ye just permeates through? Yeah,
this is the This book.

Speaker 19 (01:50:49):
I'm going to talk about is called The Seventh Floor
by David McCloskey, and it's actually the third in his
CIA trilogy, which began with a book called Damascus Road
went on with Moscow X, which I've raved about on
this program before, and like Moscow X, I loved this
new one, the Seventh Floor, which refers to the executive
suite of top management of the CIA at Langley, Virginia,

(01:51:10):
and it brings back a character who is a CIA operative.
Her name is Artemis Aphrodite Proctor.

Speaker 2 (01:51:17):
That's a good name.

Speaker 19 (01:51:18):
It's really good, isn't it. And I will stress that
you don't need to have read the other books in
order to enjoy this one and get to grips with
it very quickly. But Artemis is brought back and you
can see very early on that she is a real
rogue agent, and at the beginning of the book she
is spectacularly fired from the CIA, and she ends up
going down to Florida and working in alligator wrestling for

(01:51:39):
tourists on her I think it's her uncle's alligator farm.
But one of the reasons that she was fired was
that she was running a particular operation which went badly wrong,
and one of her agents was taken by the terrorist
organization and kept in captivity for quite some time, and
when he emerged, he knocks on her door and says, look,

(01:52:00):
I know you're not with the CIA anymore, but I
believe I have good reason to believe there's a mole
on the seventh floor and we should get together and
root that person out.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
And get it sorted.

Speaker 19 (01:52:12):
So they have to operate outside the usual boundaries, and
they do, and it's brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
You're right. You don't need to have read Moscow X
before you read this, but if you love spy thrillers,
do because Artemis Proctor I can't get enough of it.
She's such a great character.

Speaker 14 (01:52:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Yes, anyway, go back and have a listen to our
interview with David McCloskey. If you missed it earlier in
the show, you can find it at Newstalk zb dot
co dot MZ forward slash Sunday. Another book that I
thoroughly enjoyed throughout the summer is David Balducci's Total Control.
Another friend of the show. He was with us a
couple of weeks ago, yes, he was a great interview.
Thank you.

Speaker 19 (01:52:48):
So this actually is the second book that David Baldacci
ever wrote. He started his career with a book called
Absolute Power, and then he went on and wrote Total Control.
He's done well over fifty books since, so his output
is extraordinary. But I think the publishers have recognized that
there's a whole generation of readers for his books who've
probably missed the earlier ones, and so they are starting

(01:53:10):
to reissue that back catalog. And this is really worth
the read. It's the story of a guy called Jason
Archer who works for a high tech corporation in Washington, DC,
and he's discovered something nefarious within the system and is
determined to try and take it to the authorities and
see justice done. But he has to play into the

(01:53:32):
hands of the bad guys in order to be able
to do that. So he books himself on a flight
to LA tells his wife, Sidney, who is a high
flying corporate lawyer, that he's off to LA. But there's
something in the story which means that he needs to
default from that ticket, and he books himself instead on
a flight to Seattle, and while he's merely on his way,

(01:53:53):
to Seattle the LA flight. It blows up in mid
air and one hundred and thirty people die, including the
chairman of the Federal Reserve Board and the FBI agent
who is put onto this case to figure out what
happened to the airplane. Then chances upon the fact that
our man Jason was in on something, and so were

(01:54:14):
some other people, and he draws all of those links together. Meanwhile,
of course, Sidney Jason's wife thinks that he's gone down
with the plane, so she's very surprised when she gets
a message from him to say that actually he's alive,
if not particularly well.

Speaker 2 (01:54:27):
There are lots of little different twists and turns in
this book, and different threads that kind of ought to
come together when you least expect it, exactly for a
book that's how old.

Speaker 19 (01:54:35):
While I'm going to say it was eighteen, I want
to say, like, it's more. It's more. I think he
might have written his first one in about eighty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
Okay, it's timeless. Like I read this, I'm going to
be honest, I didn't know it was the second book
read and I wrote it, and I was kind of going, oh,
because it talks a bit about AI and I was thinking, look, ay,
I've moved on from that, but still reading it, it's
I found it completely timeless.

Speaker 19 (01:54:57):
Well, it is because it also talks about things like
the impact that the Federal Reserve can have on the
American and international economies. So he brings in quite a
lot of environl mental things that give it an added flavor.

Speaker 2 (01:55:08):
It's very good, No, it's brilliant. So our two books today,
The Seventh Floor by David McCloskey and Total Control by
David Baldacci. Thank you so much, John Talk. Next week's here.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
Then the Sunday Session Full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks, EDB.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
Thank you so much for your company this morning. I'd
love you to have you with us. Don't forget that.
Jason Pine is up next with Weekend Sport at midday. Hey,
the White Lotus is back at this time. We have
a whole lot to be excited about with the kiwi
in the cast. The fabulous morgana O'Reilly joins me next
week to share all about her character and the experience
of filming the HBO show. And you may remember back

(01:55:47):
in twenty fifteen, chrastitch Boy's high head Head boy Jake Bailey.
He delivered his end of Yew speek from a wheelchair
after he was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer.
Now he is an internationally acclaimed author on resilience. His
new book is called The Comeback Code and Jake Bailey
will be on the show with me next Sunday and
the rest of your afternoon take care, see you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:56:45):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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