Full Show Podcast: 11 May 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
reads used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Francesca
Rudkin with you until midday. Good to have you with us.
Have you mother's date or new mums out there coming
up on the show's day. I'm thrilled to have Callyanne
Bradley join us. Kallianne is the author of my favorite
book of twenty twenty four, The Ministry of Time, a
unique story that encompasses time, travel, history, romance and humor

(00:48):
in a delightful way. I was utterly charmed by this book,
and I think we're going to be utterly charmed by
its author as well. Callyanne Bradley is with us after
ten and after eleven we head to London, where we're
joined by Keui actress Robin Malcolm. Robin, along with Diane Taylor,
co created the TV show After the Party, which has
been nominated for Best International TV Series. At the Baptis,

(01:10):
which take place tomorrow morning, New Zealand time. I think
they're in with a chance. We're going to talk about
the significance of this nomination and what next for Robin Malcolm.
She will be with us after eleven, and of course
you're most welcome to text me anytime throughout the morning.
On ninety two, ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Two the Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
This week, a new disaster movie was announced. There isn't
a script yet because no one knows how it's going
to end, and when it was announced, no one knew
how to react. If there was ever a global WTF
moment in film, it was Trump's announcement of one hundred
percent tariff on films coming into the US which have
been produced in foreign lands. This is often the case

(01:52):
with President Trump. He asks a good question but comes
up with the wrong answer. It's totally reasonable to look
at how California can rebuild its entertainment industry. According to
the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Imployer, around eighteen thousand
full time jobs have been lost over the last three years,
mostly in California. So yes, sure, look at how to

(02:16):
maintain production and jobs in the US, but in a
way which will actually benefit the entertainment business. No one
sees the tariff on films made overseas as the answer
to their problems. Many US studios make films overseas. The
industry was advocating for tax incentives and subsidies and all
the other normal things countries, including New Zealand, have done

(02:39):
to help their film industries. But throwing out a declaration
on social media without further explanation isn't the way to
convince an industry you have their best interests at heart.
Share prices in Netflix, Disney, Water Brothers, Discovery, Paramount and
Comcast fell after President Trump's announcement. And what does this
proposal even mean? It's Trump talking about independent foreign language films,

(03:01):
all large scale studio films made overseas. And what if
you produce the film from the States, say, write script,
pre produce and produce most of the and post produce
the film in the US, but take advantage of another
country's tax incentives to shoot there? Is that a film
made in a foreign land. What about a US produced
film that uses wetter in New Zealand to create award

(03:22):
winning visual effects? Will it have to foot the tariff bill?
What does it mean for streaming services? It's thought that
about seventy five percent of Netflix content is made outside
of the US. Will TV shows be included. It's a
minefield and it has thrown Hollywood into chaos. Films do
not get made in a hurry. They're scheduled and planned

(03:43):
years in advance. This is close to a writer's strike
and that Hollywood is being forced to breathe and pause
non committed work and it will take some time to
get things started again. And it's not just Hollywood who
has been thrown. Film industries around the world are in
collective shock. In the UK, where new installments of Marvels,

(04:03):
Avengers and Spider Man are set to shoot in London,
the news was met with disbelief. Succession star Brian Cox
called it an absolute disaster and with a related workforce
of around two hundred thousand, many freelancers could find themselves jobless.
New Zealand could suffer the same fate. Our industry has
been bolstered recently by international productions such as Chief of

(04:25):
War and Minecraft and brad Pits Heart of the Beast.
We have an incredible industry here, driven by a world
class crew who rely on these international projects. At the
beginning of the year, Studio West in Auckland completed construction
of its fifth sound stage, and Auckland Film Studios is
also adding new stages so they can all accommodate bigger
international projects. The industry will be holding its breath that

(04:49):
it can find a way to fill this new capacity.
New Zealand's film sector generates around three point five billion annually,
with around one third of revenue generated from the United States. So, yeah,
what Brian Cox said, this could be a disaster, but
we're growing ups, so keep calm and carry on seems
to be the public response so far globally, But behind

(05:11):
the scenes there is no doubt at least some mild
panic finding a way to convince Trump there are other
approaches to make Hollywood great again. We'll be at the
forefront of industry leaders' minds right now, and let's hope
they do otherwise this story might have a miserable ending.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Can to hear your thoughts. I know that the tax
incentives here in New Zealand have been controversial for some
Not everyone is interested in the film industry getting such
a good deal, But three point five billion isn't bad contribution,
is it? And the last thing we want is for
Kiwi films like the hugely successful ten R to face
a tariff to screen in the US. Ninety two ninety
two is the text number up Next, should alcohol and

(05:54):
tobacco lobbyists be given and be giving input into health policies?
It is twelve past nine.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
It's the Sunday Seton with Francesca Rutkin and whit Girls
for the best selection of great breeds.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
US Talk SAT be.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Fifteen past nine. So how much do we know about
the extent of lobbying in New Zealand? This week we
saw Labour launch and members bill to strengthen laws around
tobacco industry lobbying. It was also reported that alcohol lobbyists
have been giving input into health policies. So do any
of us have a good idea around the extent of
lobbying in New Zealand? Our lobbyists having too much input

(06:37):
into important policy decisions? And Tolly is the chair of
Transparency International New Zealand and a former National MP, and
she joins me now thanks for your time this morning, Anne.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
Good morning and happy mother's days all the mothers that
are listening, hopefully sitting up in bed having had breakfast
brought to them.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Well, wouldn't that be nice. I haven't heard from either
of my children yet, but I'm just presuming that's because
they're not awake yet. So I'll give them. I'll give
them some time anyway, give them the benefit of the
b I shall and do industry lobby groups have too
much input and to political decisions made in New Zealand.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
Well, I think the problem is that we don't really know.
And that's the point that Transparency International has been making
for a number of years, and of course the level
of playing Field campaign that's being run by your Health coalition,
the Helen Clark Foundation and Transparency International New Zealand, the

(07:33):
campaign that we launched a few weeks ago saying there
needs to be regulation and there needs to be much
more transparency so that people can see who the lobbyists
are when they're lobbying and what are the results.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
When it comes to tobacco and alcohol specifically, two that
have been highlighted this week are those two areas that
need to be closely looked at given the health implications.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Well, you know, look, I think that the Members Bill
that you're referred to as a bit of a pr stunt,
and that's underst and all that's about politics. But we've
got to be very careful that you know, we believe
in free freedom of speech and we believe that everyone
should have their own views. Now, honestly, I've never met

(08:18):
a health minister of any political color who doesn't really
care about the health of New Zealand. So we've got
to be careful that we don't insult them by saying
that they make decisions based on lobbyists rather than putting
the health of.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
New Zealanders first.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
But the problem is we don't know who's talking to whom,
how often, and what the results are, so that you know,
that's why we're asking for a register of lobbyists, much
more transparency about who's talking to whom and how often,
and and and then what what the outcomes are. And
then people can judge for themselves whether in fact decisions

(08:57):
are being made, you know, for the right for the
right reasons or that all and everyone will have their
own view about what is the right the right decision.
But it isn't always about health. Sometimes it's about the
economic cost of putting some of these regulations on et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Because could you set rules around some industries and not
others when it comes to lobbying.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Well, that's the danger, isn't it that you say these
are more important than those Well, actually they're part of
our life now, and particularly around health, people get very
focused and you know, local governments go through local alcohol policies.
They're they're they're not only considering the health of of

(09:40):
the people in their communities, but they're looking at access.
And how easy the system is, you know, for people
to look for the for the people who treat alcohol
normally to get to get access to something that is
a legal product. So you know, you've got to be
very careful you don't peck winners and losers.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
As you said, you.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Know, people are good to talk to and these people aren't.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Exactly problem And as you said, look, everybody deserves to
have their say and get their point of view across.
But is there a point when it comes to actually
creating policy whereby that access is limited.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, that's the problem. You say, these people are bad,
therefore they can't have as much time as these people
that have got that's the difficulty. You get into and
that's not the sort of country that we want. But
when you're making policy, you need as a minister, you
need to be ensuring that you're getting a wide and

(10:37):
when it comes to the cabinet table, because remember no
individual minister makes a policy and puts it into place,
it's got to go to cabinet and so it's got
to get that whole of government. In this case, we've
got three different parties, so that process would be quite
quite difficult. Most coalition governments that we've had you've had

(10:58):
one or two or sometimes three parties, so it's quite
a process. And so and there's a lot of things
that you're taking into a count so you want to
make sure that you're getting as wide a range of
advice on on a on a wide range of issues
to do with that policy as you possibly can. Some
of it is that would be about in the case

(11:19):
of alcohol and health and smoking would be about health.
Some of it might be about the cost. You know,
in tobacco, we've we've put the we've found that putting
the price of tobacco up has been the most effective.
So so there's all different sorts of considerations, but at
the heart of it, most ministers are looking to do
the right thing for the best, the best thing for

(11:42):
New Zealanders.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
And when you were a minister, how often were you
dealing with industry lobby groups?

Speaker 6 (11:48):
All?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Well, all the time, I mean, and Transparency International is
a lobby group.

Speaker 7 (11:52):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
It's not just industry lobby groups. There's civil society lobby groups.
You know, you step outside your door, you go to
the supermarket, someone's lobbying you about something they think that
the government should be doing, or you, as a in
an the vigil MP should be doing. And that's that's good,
that's that's the representation government that we have. But you

(12:14):
but you always take that as their point of view
and often you will try and match that with a
counterpoint of view.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Were well regulated when it comes to lobbying, Where do
we sort of business?

Speaker 4 (12:25):
So we're not at all. And and Transcripts International has
been calling and that coalition of the three have been
calling for more regular we're out of step with similar
countries like Australia and the UK and in Canada and
even the US have more regulation around their lobbyists. So

(12:47):
you know, we want a register of lobbyists. We want
to see who's we want ministers to be much more
transparent about who they're actually talking to and how often
they're talking to them. So we need a register that's
that's publicly accessible, a code, a mandatory code of conduct
that the my They just have a voluntary code of conduct.

(13:10):
We'd like to see a mandatory code of conduct. We
want a calling off period, because you can go from
being a minister to being a lobbyist, an industry lobbyist
the next day after after you've resigned from parliament. And
again we're out of step with similar countries who have
rules and regulations about that.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
And TOLLI thank you so much for your time this morning,
really appreciate it. It is twenty three past nine.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
First Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, Kendy, he your thoughts on that. Ninety two ninety
two is the text. It is a really tricky one,
isn't it. I think it's because we have a perception
that tobacco and alcohol companies have had quite a large
influence over time on politicians that we get a little
nervous about their involvement. But as an says, you know,
everybody is entitled to get their points of view across,

(14:03):
so love to hear from you on that one. Access
to mental health support is a constant problem, whether it
be the shortage of qualified professionals, long delays, or the
high costs, not everyone is getting the help they need.
On my podcast The Little Things, I was really interested
to learn how impressed psychologist Jackie McGuire was with some
of the tech based options for mental health support. So

(14:25):
looking into what was available, I came across key we
digital health startup Overcome. They specialize in VR exposure therapy
and this week heading to Melbourne's Digital Health Festival. Founder
of Overcome, Adam Hutchins, joins me. Now, good morning Adam.

Speaker 7 (14:42):
Good morning Francisca, and happy Mother's Day.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Thank you very much you having to participate in Mother's
Day on behalf of children.

Speaker 7 (14:51):
Absolutely. I took my partner breakfast already, so yeah, ticked
the box early, but we've got a few things planned
for the rest of the day too.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Wonderful. Hey talk me through VR exposure therapy. What is
it and what does it involve?

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Sure?

Speaker 7 (15:06):
So, exposure therapy is the gradual and safe exposure to
whatever it is that you're avoiding for your anxiety disorder. So,
for example, if I have social anxiety, the best way
for me to overcome it is actually by actually just
throwing yourself in the deep end and experiencing it, even
though you don't want to do that. It's incredibly effective.

(15:27):
But what we know is that around eighty percent of
people that have an anxiety to sort of need exposure
therapy just can't access it, and so that's where overcome
comes in. So we deliver virtual reality exposure therapy. It
sort of tricks the brain into thinking that you're actually
in that environment, and therefore we've been able to prove
recently that we've been able to get the results. So

(15:48):
a really effective way of doing that traditional exposure therapy,
but using really new and scalable technology.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
There's quite a lot of evidence behind exposure therapy, isn't there.

Speaker 7 (15:58):
Yeah, there is, and it's growing. We've actually done two
clinical trials ourselves with the University of Otago. The results
of those work. For social anxiety we were able to
reduce on average fifty percent, and for a clinical trial
across five different phobias, we were able to reduce the
symptoms by seventy five percent. We're actually about to start

(16:21):
a new clinical trial soon around quantifying how can we
reduce the demand on clinician time by people being able
to do the virtual reality exposure therapy at home in
a safe way via their smartphone. So really exciting times
for us around that sort of evidence base.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
So social anxiety, phobias, what else can it help with.

Speaker 7 (16:43):
We've got a program for panic disorder, we're starting to
get into OCD, some eating disorders. This is via our
clinician portal, so it's sort of heavily restricted to qualified
clinicians that are able to deliver it. However, there is
a smartphone component, so whenever that clinician feels as though
it's right for their client to go and continue the

(17:04):
program on from home, are able to do it. We've
also been doing some really early stage with Stanford around
using virtual reality exposure therapy as part of the mild
depression intervention as well using the outfit behavioral activation. So
there are a lot of really a lot of conditions
that do require exposure therapy as part of the intervention,

(17:25):
and that's the area that we're looking to solve with
really scalable, accessible virtual reality exposure therapy.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
So the idea would be that you would start maybe
working alongside a professional they would have done some diagnosis
work with you, and then as that treatment continues on,
there's the opportunity for you to be able to sort
of take control of that treatment and as you say,
do it at home and things.

Speaker 7 (17:48):
Yeah, well, I mean that's exactly right. So what we're
learning in those initial sessions with a clinician, we're able
to capture things like heart rate, eye tracking, and all
of these really interesting things, and there's actually a lot
of information buried within that physiological data. We can take
that information and actually start to personalize the rest of
the treatment when they're at home, and all of that

(18:08):
data is able to come back to the clinician so
they can adjust their program remotely. So really really interesting
technology and really a good solution to sort of try
and reduce the clinician time from that data that's coming
through to the clinician. So you have really interesting application
of technology, I think, to try and solve this really
interesting and growing problem around the shortage of clinicians.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
You've just found yourself in a unique situation with UIs
insurers in the NHS discovering your software. What's happening there?

Speaker 7 (18:40):
Yeah, so, I guess you know, we've been working on
this problem, solving this problem for five years. We're an
incredibly passionate team of ten down here in christ Church,
and as we've been working on this problem and solving it,
it's sort of started to attract the attention of organizations
like the NHS over in the UK, where they had
around thirty percent of their appointments canceled as a result

(19:04):
of the anxiety around some of those process So we've
started a pilot with them reducing the number of cancelations
through this virtual reality. And we've also got a project
with our ARMS over in Australia where we can reduce
the time it takes to rehabilitate someone that's been in
a car accident by using the virtual reality exposure therapy
program that we're built for them. And then we have, yeah,

(19:28):
just about to start a pilot with one of the
largest US insurers, and this is around, yeah, trying to
reduce the amount and probably cost is probably a big
driver around the cost of being able to deliver and
achieve some of these outcomes that we've been able to
achieve through the Overcome platform. So super exciting time for
them because what we know is that this problem is

(19:50):
a significant problem, not only for the governments, but also
these insurers and organizations that really do want to solve
these same problems that we're working on, but at a
much lower cost and incredibly scalable. So yes, it's a
really interesting time for us.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
You're off to the Digital Health Festival this week, Matt Doocy.
Of course, our Minister for Mental Health and Associate Minister
for Health is also heading to this. Do you say
that as a sign that the government's taking digital health
options seriously?

Speaker 7 (20:18):
I think so, And I think it would be very
difficult to not look at technology as being the solution
or part of the solution to how we address this
problem of growing demand but also this sort of shrinking
you know, basically team of people that are able to
treat this. So there is a massive growing gap in
the demand and capacity, and I think technology is absolutely

(20:42):
the way to help sort of reduce that gap. So yeah,
I think it would definitely be on the radar of
the Minister, I think, and as we've seen with our
workover in the NHS, it's also on near radar too,
and we've been able to sort of prove there that
we have been able to significantly reduce the amount of
demand and time on the weight list with a really accessible,

(21:03):
low cost, scalable intervention. So yeah, it'd be great to
connect over the years.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Adam, thanks so much for your time this morning. That
was Adam Hutchinson, who's the founder of Overcome. I think
this is really interesting. You know, when we spoke to
Jackie Maguire on the little thing, she said, look, you know,
online therapy or you know, you know, virtual therapy might
not be for you if you have some deep seated
trauma and some major issues you need to work through.

(21:29):
But for a lot of people who are dealing with
some social anxiety, some anxiety, some phobias, just like what
Adam was talking about, she's really impressed with the possibilities
for the use of that alongside a professional So I
think that's pretty cool news. Great to see a new
Zealand company coming up with something so interesting. It is
twenty eight to tenure with News Talks at.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
B It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News
Talks at b All.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
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Speaker 3 (22:55):
For Sunday session, New.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Zealand Herald political reporter Jamie Enseil joins me now to
talk local politics. How are we.

Speaker 8 (23:03):
Jomie I'm very good.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
How are you very good?

Speaker 8 (23:06):
Thing? Thank you.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
So this week we saw an overhaul of the pay
equity regime. Were thirty three current claims wiped in the
narrowing of scope of this law in the future. What
are people more upset about the changes to the law
or the fact was completed abruptly in thirty six hours
under urgency or both.

Speaker 8 (23:23):
I think it is a bit of both. But really
I think it just blindsided a lot of people. You know,
actors push through a lot of reforms in this workplace
relations space before, but pay equity hasn't really been something
that people have been really vocal about. You know, it
wasn't a huge issue at the election, and so to
have a lot of this significantly changed, to have that

(23:43):
threshold for claims increased, I think it just really caught
people off guard, and that's led to that really heated reaction.
You know, the government says it believes in pay equity
and there were some workability issues with their regime, but
because the government used that urgency to ran it through
the House, there wasn't really an opportunity to have a
discussion about the changes they were actually making. You know,

(24:05):
this is a complex he wants issue. If there had
been the time to have the discussion, maybe the reaction
wouldn't have been so passionate, so heated, like we saw
this week. There's also the issue, of course, of the
proximity to the budget, because that just makes it look
like the changes are being made to help the government
balance the book. So you really have this perfect storm

(24:26):
of issues here. You know, the government says it needed
to act quickly to provide legal certainty, but it does
look messy and it creates that confusion around exactly what
the government's intentions are.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
But it doesn't seem to affect National the poles. But
of course the poll, the latest poll was before this
was announced. Where's everyone sitting at the moment.

Speaker 8 (24:49):
Yeah, that's completely correct. So this is the new Taxpayers
Union Curier poll. It has both National and Labor in
the low thirties and both have gained from last month.
Nationals just ahead on thirty four point six percent and
then you have Labor on thirty three point two. There
hasn't been any others thingificant changes the center right, so
National Act and New Zealand First are still able to govern.

(25:12):
But you're right, it's important to note This poll was
taken right at the start of the month, and that
was when the government was making a number of pre
budget announcements, so like their decision to help teachers with
their registration fees, cut the operational allowance and also allocate
a big chunk of cash to defense. But it's also
before the pay equity changes were now, so this pole

(25:33):
doesn't really capture kiwi's reaction to that, and that could
end up being quite a major turning point. You know,
the opposition has been prosecuting the government hard over those
pay equity changes, and it does feel like the likes
of Labor and the Greens have a bit of momentum
behind them after this week. The question's really going to
be WI the government is planning any Budget Day surprises,

(25:53):
you know, any real retail policies that end up resonating
with kiwis to kind of counter those bad vibes that
we saw this week. We were yet to see any
major budget cost of living measures. You know, clearly money
for things like defense is important, but our boost for
kiris wallets is ultimately what's going to turn the dial
at the ballot box.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Jamie and Saul, thanks for your time this morning. Appreciate it.
It is twenty one to ten.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
For Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News TALKSB.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Thank you very much for your text. Someone text to say,
we're never happy. We want quick government like Trump, but
when we don't like the results, we grizzle. Never mind,
Labor and their cohorts will magic the money up. I'll
get some more of your texts shortly. Sake is very
much the domain of the Japanese, but one Kiwi Brewery
has taken on Japan's best and one gold Queenstown based

(26:47):
Zincuro Sake has claimed the award at the Tokyo Sake Challenge.
It's drip pressed sake. Zincudo is New Zealand's first and
only dedicated sake brewer. Brewery and director Richard Ryle joins me. Now,
Good morning, Richard.

Speaker 9 (27:03):
Good morning Frances. Nice to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Love you to have you with us. Zinkuro am I
saying that correctly.

Speaker 9 (27:10):
Your pronunciation has been very good so far, well done?

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Did we go? That was the form Japanese for you? Congratulations?
You and your co director Dave entered this competition to
market tenth anniversary. This must be a pretty good way
to celebrate.

Speaker 9 (27:23):
Yeah, no, it's it's been an amazing journey for us
to reach this point, and yeah, ten years has just
flown past. But yeah, what a way to celebrate with
this fantastic award from from the home of the Home
of sake. So now this is a great sort of
validation of where we're what we've been doing, and where

(27:45):
we're at.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
What sits your sake apart from others.

Speaker 9 (27:49):
Well, I think you could probably say that we actually
we've gone back to the roots of how sak used
to be made many hundreds of years ago in Japan.
At the moment, saki in Japan's are very much a
big industry. They produce over five hundred million bottles of
psachi a year and it's it's a big industrial process. Well,

(28:13):
we've gone back to the sort of roots of how
it used to be made. We have a very sort
of small batch process. Everything is done by hand. We
don't have any machinery in the brewery. And we actually
it could be argued that we actually have a perfect
climate for making sake down here in Queenstown. You know,

(28:35):
Queenstown's a pretty cool climate even during the summer, and
a cool climate is great for making saki. And we
also have some very sort of good water here. The
water here is very soft, soft water is great for
making saki. So all we needed was to get some

(28:58):
rice and that's been that's been the process. We've got
the climate, we've got the water. We just needed some rice.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Where did the rice come from?

Speaker 9 (29:09):
So we actually import rice from from Japan. The rice
that's used for making sakke is actually slightly different to
the rice that you generally eat. You've got table rice
for eating, and then you've got sakki rice for for
making sakke. So a big, a big part of what

(29:29):
we do is is getting some great sakki rice imported
from some sake rice producing areas in Japan.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Hand crafted. Does that make it a labor intensive process?

Speaker 9 (29:44):
Oh, yes, right, it's we. Yeah. We do everything by hand,
including writing the number of the bottle on the label,
putting labels on, putting the caps on. We've got a
great team in Queenstown here. Our sake brewer brewers do
a fantastic job. They were working very old conditions because

(30:08):
even when it's hot in Queenstown, we do like to
keep the brewery cold, so all year they're basically in
a very cold environment and doing everything by by hand,
so it's a it's a very inefficient way of doing it.
But we've just sort of taken a very sort of
I guess you could call it a conservative approach to this,

(30:30):
not trying to over invest in in the in the business,
just keeping it small batch, authentic and just growing slowly,
and this this prize will hopefully be a springboard to
two greater things.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Is there good demand for it here?

Speaker 9 (30:50):
Yeah, it's We're we're sort of really lucky with the
timing of when we started this ten years ago. It
was just at a point a little did we know,
but saki was actually starting to take off around the
world outside Japan, other countries like in the States and

(31:12):
in Europe, they were just starting to get on board
with I guess it's part of the sort of explosion
of Japanese food everywhere around the world. Everyone's loving their
sushi and their sashimi and their tempura these days, and
I guess drinking sake with with Japanese food sort of

(31:33):
became sort of more of an acceptable thing to do.
And then people have you know, some of these chefs
now on these TV programs that we see on all
the time. They're starting to realize that saki actually goes
really well with not only Japanese food, but also with
with Western food. So now you know, saka is being

(31:56):
paired and matched with with all sorts of foods that
probably the Japanese would have never thought that their their
national drink would would go well with.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Richard, if someone has been a bit slow at getting
mum and Mother's Day present, is it easy to pick
up some zincruro today?

Speaker 9 (32:14):
Oh oh yes, yeah, yeah, definitely on your way home,
maybe this afternoon, but no, we we do online sales
of course, and there are various sales outlets all over
the country. Yeah, so it's an exciting time for sure,
So please give it a try. But people that sort

(32:36):
of tend to think o seki as being a you know,
like a vodka or a tequila, it's not. It's it's
a wine and it's a really delicate flavors and it
really does go well with lots of different things.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Richard Ryl, thank you so much for your time today.
So that award winning sack is called Zinkruro. It is
twelve to ten news do z B.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Putting tough questions to the Newspakers some mic Asking Breakfast.

Speaker 10 (33:01):
The third year in a row, the New Zealand rugby
unions lost money? What's the plane? Marc Robinson is the
in zinn boss? When do you stop losing money? Well,
then other question could be you know we we said out,
how about we do my question? When do you stop
losing money?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Where I was.

Speaker 11 (33:14):
Working to order a break even or better position, it's to.

Speaker 10 (33:18):
Replacement for any awesome terms of dolls.

Speaker 7 (33:20):
Look, the properties are different, aunt mats.

Speaker 10 (33:21):
Do you actually have anybody that you can announce this year?

Speaker 7 (33:24):
Well, that's what's working on and we're working on you don't.

Speaker 10 (33:27):
I'm just trying to work out is to get an
international name to get on the front of an all
black jersey and whether or not it's slim pickings.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Out there and it's really strong.

Speaker 10 (33:35):
Back tomorrow at six am the mic Asking Breakfast with
a Vida News talks it be Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudcine and Wikeles for
the best selection of great breaths used talk sed be.

Speaker 12 (33:50):
Puss up week you for our strip of baby well
bust that I want them saying that this is the
best single of my life.

Speaker 13 (33:59):
Whether I want you just like.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
That into your head.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
So what was that on Friday when Lord and Ow
it's an international tour with New Zealand missing from the schedule. Oh,
was reported by some media as another snub by a
whole profile artist. Took it very personally, of course, because
we all love Lord. I love Lord. But we wondered
whether there was a little bit more to this story,
so we reached out to a prominent New Zealand concert

(34:25):
promoter to see what he thought about it all, and
he believes that another announcement is likely to follow, which
would include an Asian tour Australia and New Zealand. So apparently.
He explained to us that American dates often need to
be announced further out than they do in this part
of the world. So we will see. But Lord fans

(34:45):
is no need to panic just yet. Let's just calm
the farmer. I don't think we've been snubbed. I think
it's all just we've just got to wait for the announcement.
I'm sure Lord won't miss us out. I thank you
very much for your texts. As someone said Francisca, let's
ask the lobbyist for the New Zealand screen sector. Should
they have the same in New Zealand policy. Well, I
don't think anyone died watching the film making a film,

(35:08):
so slightly different scenario. And as we were saying in
the conversation, yes, everybody is entitled to give their point
of view. Right where do you draw the line? That
was exactly the question that I was asking, and Tolly
another one here, Francisco, I think you've summarized summarized the
film fiasco quite well. I work in the industry and
I know for a fat New Zealand is an incredibly

(35:30):
attractive place. We have great talent, great production facilities, not
least our architecture and landscape mode. While for film companies,
one of the biggest reasons in New Zealand is such
an attractive place is the better bang for their buck.
Film production companies get the US New Zealand exchange rate
being one of the reasons, but also our film crew
requirements are a lot less than there in the United States,
and likewise we have the great tax benefits for film

(35:52):
production companies. Yes, thank you very much and look KB
sent a lovely tech San Francisca after hearing your interview
with Mickey Megaciva regarding his movie Tina. I finally got
to see this movie on Friday. What a wonderful movie.
I don't think I have cried so much movie as
I did with this one. In fact, the tears are
streaming down my face now as I write this text.
Do you know if it was based on a true story? Katie?

(36:14):
Thank you for your text. You're not the only one
who cried endlessly watching that film. I think everybody has
had that same experience. It is really beautiful, isn't it.
Look it was based Mickey did use his own experience
of grief and the loss of his brother to inspire
that film. So yes, definitely there have been some There's

(36:35):
been some personal experiences which contributed to it, but no,
not based on one true story. New episode of The
Little Things is out. Oliver Berkman is my guest. He
is absolutely fantastic. He wrote a book called Meditation for Mortals,
and basically he's saying, just give up trying to be perfect, folks.

(36:58):
You can have a lot less stress in your life
if you just understand that we've got a limited time
and spend it doing what you want and what makes
you happy anyway, It's a fantastic podcast. He really is inspirational.
So you can listen to the latest episode of The
Little Things wherever you get your podcasts, on iHeartRadio or
anywhere else. It is a six to ten.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
The Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks AB.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Callienne Bradley's fabulous book, The Ministry of Time was written
almost accidentally. It wasn't supposed to be her debut novel,
but thankfully Callianne's friends saw the potential and the short
story she wrote to entertain them during lockdowns, so she
turned it into a novel and the book has been
a huge global success. Callien is coming to the Auckland
Writers Festival in a week or so. Her session was

(37:49):
one of the first to sellouts, so we are absolutely
delighted to have her on the show next and we're
going to finish the hour with a little bit of
Elton John and Juli Loopa. They are part of They
are just two of the four hundred artists who are
seeking copyright protection amid an AI surge in the UK.
We're gonna be talking a little bit more about this
later in the panel. You're with the Sunday Session.

Speaker 14 (38:14):
So fine, I think, I am no, no, no fun.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for the.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Best election of Great Reeds. You stalk, Sid be.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Good to have you with us. It is seven past ten, right.
The Ministry of Time was hands out my favorite book
at twenty twenty four, so it was a surprise to
learn the book was born from a lockdown experiment. This clever,
thrilling book almost never saw the light of day. The
book is by Callyanne Bradley, and I am excited to
say that she is heading to the Auckland Writers' Festival
this week. Callyanne, good morning, Thank you so much for

(39:34):
being with us.

Speaker 11 (39:35):
Thank you. I'm very excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, I am very excited you were here because, as
I was just telling you before we came to air this,
the Ministry of Time was my favorite book of twenty
twenty four, and I normally struggle to find just one
book that I will say is my favorite book. But
I absolutely loved it. And I'm sure that this is
the kind of response that you have been getting since
you released it.

Speaker 11 (39:59):
I wish I could I had responses as kind and
enthusiastic as yours all the time. It has been a
real pleasure to see that there are people out there
who've connected with it and who care about it. When
I started writing it, I didn't expect it to get
beyond the original fifteen readers. So it really is very thrilling.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
We'll talk about that in just a moment. Now, Lockdown
inspired you to write some science fiction. What was it
about the lockdowns that brought that out of New.

Speaker 11 (40:27):
Well, I couldn't go outside, I wasn't really doing anything,
and my brain, you know, during lockdown, we had all
these this strange space in our brain where you know,
things like going outside and meeting people and going to
work would have been during lockdown. I started watching a
TV series called The Terror, which is about Sir John
Franklin's lost eighteen forty five expedition to the Arctic. That
introduced me to the lost eighteen forty five expedition to

(40:50):
the Arctic, in which one hundred and twenty nine men
and two ships vanished, but also one of the officers
on that expedition, a man called Graham Gore, who I
found just by accident, just looking up what I thought
was an interesting name on Wikipedia, and then I saw
his photo. I saw his photo on the way Copedia page,
and I was dazzled.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
But quite smitten by him, aren't you?

Speaker 15 (41:14):
I was?

Speaker 11 (41:15):
I really am. At the time. It felt, you know,
eyes across the crowded website, really electric. But it's partly
because his biography makes him sound like a very calm,
very competent, very likable man who was you know, he
was very quite senior by the time he went to
the Arctic, so someone you could trust to be in charge.
And during lockdown we were not being led by kind,

(41:36):
competent and likable people in the UK. So I think
I really latched onto this, this figure from history who
I thought, God, it'd be great if he was here now.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Actually, isn't an amazing Most of us were getting sixcated
on how to make breed and here you were getting
fixated on this man who's led to this book. Do
you still have the huge picture of him hanging in
your office right behind you on the zone? So how
how did he end up? How did you end up

(42:06):
putting him into this book of fiction?

Speaker 11 (42:09):
Again, this was a sort of surprising lockdown mistake. So
when I started finding out about this expedition, the Lost
Expedition of eighteen forty five to the Arctic, and as
I was trying to find out more about this officer,
of course I couldn't actually go anywhere. I couldn't go
to archives, I couldn't ask any questions. I only had
the Internet. So I went on the internet, did a
bit of googling, that was searching around, and I found

(42:30):
this community online of people who were either very interested
in the TV show we'd watched, or the expedition or
polar exploration in general. And they were very very generous
with the research they already had. So there were experts
out there who know much more about Grahame more than me.
They very generously shared their research with me, and I
began writing what would become the Ministry of Time as

(42:51):
a kind of gift for them, as sort of joke,
what would it be like if your favorite polar explorer
lived in your house? Because we all had favorite polar explorers.
That was definitely a thing that was all going.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
On for us.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's amazing, so you Initially I started writing the story
just to entertain some new friends in lockdown exactly.

Speaker 11 (43:12):
And because you know, I had no way to reach
these people. We all lived in different parts of the world,
in different countries. You know, we could go out of
the house. It was lockdown. It felt almost like a
way not only to have a conversation with this person
I'd become fascinated with this historical figure, but to continue
having a conversation and building a friendship and building a
community with these friends that I'd made in my computer.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Basically, So, how did it turn into a novel? At
what point did you realize its potential?

Speaker 11 (43:43):
I think this came in two stages. So there was
the stage where I began to take what I was
writing more seriously, because to begin with, the Ministry of
Time is about a ministry that's dragging people out of
the past to put them in the twenty first century
to find out whether time to have works. To begin with,
the Ministry was just the apparatus I needed to get
Graham Gore into the twenty first century so I could

(44:05):
torment him with spot off iron washing machines. It wasn't
at that time the most important thing about the book,
But as I kept on writing it, and I kept
on really trying to imagine and really engage with both
the historical figure his context, and the emotional and psychological
experience of being pulled into the twenty first century, being
told you have to assimilate to this new land, this

(44:27):
new country, with its new rules. I started to see
these parallels between Graham Gore and the other expats from
history and the experience of refugees. So at that point
I started to take the story a little more seriously,
and I started to build it out a little bit more.
I was at the time writing what I thought would
be my serious debut novel, which was about Cambodia, the

(44:49):
Khmer Rouge and the Diastro, because I am half Cambodia
and my mother's Cambodian, so I thought that was what
I had to write. I was thinking about. I was
really struggling with that novel, and I was thinking what
should I send to agents, what should I send out?
And one of my friends, who was reading along with
the Ministry of what would become the Ministry of Time, said,
do you know, I think what you have here is
a novel. I think you could you could really send

(45:12):
this out and no one would laugh at you. I
think it's a I think it could be your chance.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I think that's really interesting what you said there, how
you felt that you hit to write your mother's story,
the story inspired by your heritage and your mother's refugee experience.
Does it put a lot of pressure on you though,
trying to tell a story like that.

Speaker 11 (45:37):
Absolutely, And I think it's both that sense of pressure
and the nervousness of living up to the pressure, and
then the constant questioning that comes with that kind of
self imposed responsibility. Am I the right person to be
writing this? Am I getting this right?

Speaker 16 (45:52):
You know?

Speaker 11 (45:53):
My family don't want to talk about the Khmer Rouge?
Should I How much should I fictionalize? How much should
I take from my own family's past. There's that, and
then there's the sense of obligation. Obligation is actually, I think,
a kind of death wish for creativity. Just because it
was something that I thought about a lot, which preoccupied me,
it didn't mean that I was going to be able
to metabolize it into good fiction. So in fact, it

(46:15):
wasn't going anywhere. I think, not because it's not a
story worth telling, but because I couldn't find a way
to tell it.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
But in a way you have, as you say, you
didn't completely abandoned that concept. And this is one of
the brilliant things about this book, is this concept of
bringing someone from another time into the twenty third century
and trying to get them up to speed with the
current modern world. I mean, it's fascinating, and I wonder

(46:44):
was there a particular person from a particular time that
you had the most fun trying to adapt to the
twenty first century.

Speaker 11 (46:53):
I think the most fun I had was with a
character called Margaret Campbell, who is pulled from the Great
Plague of London. She's a Jacobean woman. She's brought into
the twenty first century, and you know, multiple things hit
her all at once, such as you can have you
can be a woman and be unmarriage, and you're just
allowed to move around in the world. She's introduced to

(47:15):
the word lesbian. That's very exciting for her because now
she's got a new word to describe herself and to
a describe a community she can find. She's talked about cinema.
She loves cinema that you know, just as a concept
that's something she's never had or could imagine. She finds
out about Riot Girl. She wants to go clubbing. It's
like to be able to write someone who is experiencing

(47:35):
the disorientation of a refugee, but it's also thriving, is
looking for joy. That was that was loads of fun.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
For all that, it's fun and the humor in it
is absolutely fantastic. It's also a really amazing way for
us to reflect on our humanity because there is a
point in the book where one of the bridges, and
our protagonist is a bridger and is responsible for adjusting
helping these expects as they called adjust to the modern day.
You know, it is wondering how to explain the Holocaust,

(48:03):
for example.

Speaker 11 (48:06):
So this was again as I tried to imagine what
it would actually be like to engage with these characters
and trying to looking back at recent history is from
the point of view as both an observer and someone
whose identity has been influenced by recent history. It became

(48:26):
quite difficult actually to step outside that and to face
up to some of the things in our recent history.
In the book, the ministry chooses to hold back certain information.
They withhold the news about what happened in the Holocaust.
They withhold things like nine to eleven and they say

(48:46):
this is because they don't want the expats to be
too shocked, you know, they don't want to drive them
into shock and to have their assimilation disrupted. But in fact,
there's a certain kind of kind of lying by your
mission there, because if you show someone this kind of atrocity,
it makes them ask, well, what kind of person are
you that you came out of that past? And what

(49:08):
kind of person the you that you just have to
sit and live with that very recent past. So there is, yeah,
there's a friction there.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
We've met youed sci fi, and I've obviously mentioned the
humor and things, but there's so much more of this book.
It's also a romance, and there's mystery in here, and
there's a little touch of thriller. It's got everything.

Speaker 11 (49:27):
I'm really glad that those different genres landed with you yet.
So it wasn't intentional for me to write a book
that is so many different genres bought into a chordron
and mixed up like a like a wild magic potion.
But I think partly because I was never I began
writing this for friends rather than with publication in mind.
I didn't feel boxed in by markets or didn't feel

(49:50):
boxed in by genre, so I felt able to be experimental.
Then I realized that the tropes of some of these
genres can be fun to play with. It can be
fun to seduce a reader with a romance and then
surprise them with the kind of horrific thriller underneath. And
it can be fun to play with the elements of
science fiction only to reveal that what's going on as

(50:10):
a kind of emotionally realist story. And all of these
genres mesh and they all, I think, contribute to each
other in this book, in literature in general, so it
was a lot of fun to do that.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I still find it had to believe that this was
just a lockdown mistake from a lockdown mistake. So I'm
sure that there is a second novel on the go,
and I'm wondering whether you're sort of using a similar
tactic for fighting you know your premise and your purpose
with that book.

Speaker 11 (50:40):
I'm sorry to say I have not yet fallen in
love with another random dead person on a Wikipedia page,
which is a shame because I think it would make
my work much easier. I am writing a second novel.
I'm about to get notes from my editors actually very
nerve wrackingly. I think one thing I am still playing

(51:01):
with is this idea of genre being both a seduction
that pulls us along as storyline we expect, and then
being able to upend that relationship with genre. So it's
a sort of a fantasy novel, sort of a mystery novel,
sort of a novel about dealing with the fact that
we all have to die.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
I love it. You initially submitted The Ministry of Time
under a pseudonym. Why was that?

Speaker 11 (51:28):
Well, I work in publishing, and I thought, first of all,
I was slightly masochistic, and I thought, I don't want
to leverage my contacts with literary agents that I know,
because then maybe the book isn't you know. I wanted
the book to be good enough to pass Muster without
leveraging that. But also I had this terrible feeling that

(51:49):
what if I sent it to all these agents I
know and respect and have professional relationships with, and they
all go, oh no, oh, no, how embarrassing. Oh she's
written this really embarrassing book. Oh we can never work
with her again. Delete her number, Oh, don't look at
her at parties. So that's one of the reasons I
put it out under a pseudonym first.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
And of course the complete opposite has happened. The book
has been hugely successful. Your sessions here at the Auckland
Writers Festival sold out ages ago. The BBC have picked
up the rights for the book You are so and demand.
That's quite exciting. Is that for a TV or for
a film adaptation?

Speaker 11 (52:26):
That's for a film adaptation. So it's being produced by
a twenty four Alice Birch.

Speaker 13 (52:32):
Who wrote More People, mentioning.

Speaker 11 (52:34):
The script, I know like every time I say it,
I'm like, is this real? Is someone going to descend
and say sorry, it was all a joke? You don't
actually get any of this. Alice Bertch, who wrote Norm
People's writing the script and the BBC have commissioned a series,
so I don't know when it will hit the screens,
if it ever hits the screens. As you know, things
that are commissioned don't always make it all the way

(52:56):
to TV. But fingers crossed.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Do you feel like that?

Speaker 15 (52:58):
Do?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Are you kind of do you sort of sit there
going wow, I can't believe all this has happened, but
it might all end tomorrow. Do you think like that?

Speaker 7 (53:06):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (53:07):
Constantly I have a really strong sense of I think
I really whine people up with it, a real strong
sense that I don't necessarily deserve every nice thing that's
ever happened to me, and that I should be working
harder to make sure I'm worthy of it. And the
minute that I stop working hard, it would be right
for it all to be taken away from me, or

(53:27):
for it to just turn out to be a silly
joke played at my expense.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
You cannot tell me that the result of their book
is not from hard work. It's fur too clever.

Speaker 8 (53:38):
Thank you.

Speaker 11 (53:38):
That's very kind of me. Is I'm happy to admit
that the published version of Ministry is draft number nine,
so we did do a lot of work. We did
do a lot of editing.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I love it. It's been a delight to talk to you.
Caun't white for you to arrive in Auckland, and I
know that the fans out there are going to be
thrilled to hear you at the Auckland Writers' Festival.

Speaker 11 (53:59):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking
forward to coming to Auckland and meeting everyone.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
That was the author of the Ministry of Time. Cally
Bradley cally Ane will be part of the Auckland Writers
Festival this week. For more information head to Writers Festival
dot co dot Nz. And don't forget that Robin Malcolm
is with us after eleven this morning. She is in
London ahead of the Bafters who show After the Party
has been nominated for Best International TV Show, which is

(54:24):
kind of a big deal. You're with Newstalks AB twenty
two plus.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Ten Sunday with Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin
and Wiggles for the best selection of great Reads US
talks Heavy.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Every year, Wikels invites readers to vote for their three
favorite books to help compile the new annual wit Calls
Top one hundred. The list is assembled from all the
votes received, literally thousands of them, which are ranged in
order of reader popularity, from numbers one three to one hundred.
Voting for the twenty twenty five Wi Cauls Top one
hundred opens tomorrow first thing Monday morning, and you can

(55:02):
have your say by going online to wit Calls dot
co dot Nz or by visiting only one of the
whit Calls stores around the country. The results will be
all pulled together and the new list going live at
the end of July. Wickles would love to hear from you.
The great thing about this list is that if thousands
of other readers have loved a book, chances are you
will too, So have your say and tell them what

(55:25):
you loved With books, games, puzzles, gorgeous stationary toys and
the wikkels top one hundred. There really is something for
everyone at Wickles.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
It is entertainment time now a little bit of Florence
in the machine there with Delilah and Florence is one
of the four hundred artists who have signed a letter
to the UK Prime Minister seeking better protection from AI.
Joining me now to tell us a bit more about
it is Steve Nell, editor at Flickstar co dot m ze.

Speaker 17 (56:05):
Good morning morning. AI is very much topic djure I
think through the creative sectors everywhere, but particularly in the
United Kingdom where the labor government seems quite keen to
advance maybe not the most artist friendly policy when it
comes to copyrighted works and AI being trained on it.

(56:25):
Paul McCartney do a Leaper, Alton John Coldplayer among those
four hundred artists that have published an open letter to
Prime Minister Keir Starmer, urging him not to give their
work away. In particular, they note that copyrights the lifeblood
of their professions and warn STARMA that the proposed legal
change will threaten Britain's status as a leading creative power.

(56:49):
It doesn't seem like this is really going to move
the needle much. I think it just keeps the conversation
in the public eye a bit more. The UK. The
government in the UK is saying that the consultation process
they already have underway is the correct process for these conversations.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
So they wanted to be transparent, don't they about the
copy right owners and AI using their material to train their.

Speaker 17 (57:13):
AIS and what it sounds like the UK government's proposed
as an opt out system, So you AI companies about
to use all copyrighted material unless the copyright owner specifically
says no. But the mechanism for that hasn't been designed
or announced yet.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
But it's weird, isn't Because I thought we had copyright
law so that we held people accountable. Is AI is
not part of part of it?

Speaker 17 (57:37):
My personal opinion is that the British governments bought the
line of generative AI as being this incredible thing that's
just on the cusp of being something truly incredible and
falling over themselves to create, you know, the most friendly regulatory.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Environment, gotcha, Okay.

Speaker 17 (57:55):
I think they maybe based on the idea that the
first Western economy that engages successfully was AI, like.

Speaker 18 (58:03):
This will have an economic advantage, okay, But then of
course the issue is if you put some restrictional regulation
in place around that in the UK, then don't the
AI companies just go somewhere else to do the work
and to.

Speaker 17 (58:22):
A large extent, horses to a large extent of the
horses bolted. So there's you know, all of the existing
work that exists that's copyrighted has probably been scraped by
AI without permission. So there's sort of this retrospective right,
I guess, right to know whether your work that you've
made has been used to create someone else's product without

(58:43):
without your permission or say so yeah, and then there'll
be this sort of ongoing generation of new work. But
I think this is the first sort of selver of like, hey,
you've built these big things, we need to consider it
now because it's only going to get more complex to
untangle the rights issues and things like that. Who controls it.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
You know, it's like we learned nothing from the music industry,
from Napster, from all those other things in the past.

Speaker 17 (59:11):
I think from two thousand and one of space to see.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
We're a little slow lunars when it comes to the
tech things. But I mean, I suppose the hope is
that if they're starting to talk about it, we hope
that all other governments are talking about it and everybody
kind of comes up with a similar plan to try
optimistic protect our creative industries. I'm going to stick with them.
The French Film Festival is getting underway this month.

Speaker 17 (59:32):
Yes, this is a biggie. This is an increasingly significant
festival on the annual calendar here in alt. This kicks
off from May twenty eighth, so this month. Later this month,
a Franco friendly lineup of films aoo traveling around New Zealand,
touching down in twenty four towns and cities. I can
heartily recommend one of their centerpiece films, an adaptation of

(59:53):
the Count of Monte Cristo, the classic revenge caper maybe
the original Bruce Wayne as the Count of Monte Cristo.
With the production budget of around eighty million, Wow, this
is a big French blockbuster production period. Yeah, period, and
it just took me back to talking back to school

(01:00:15):
in a good way of a lod of the novel
and seeing how many things have been influenced by the
Count of mante Christo. It's a really good adaptation of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Oh, fantastic. Of course we're going to talk to Robin
Malcolm after eleven and she is in London for the Bafts.
I'm very I think this has been an amazing thing
for the show to be nominated, it's really significant.

Speaker 17 (01:00:40):
And after the party has been it's taught the whole
world what we already knew about Robin Malcolm. Right, She's
an overnight sensation outside of New Zealand. Yeah, so this
is The awards are taking place tomorrow morning at six am.
You can watch it on Sky Arts twenty twenty five.
Bafter TV Awards and after the party. I don't know

(01:01:03):
if this is a very likely contender to win tomorrow,
but I think.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
It's they definitely to be super special.

Speaker 17 (01:01:13):
Ye to just be nominated as an outstanding production out
in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Thank you so much, Steve Right. As Steve mentioned, the
French Film Festival it's going to kick off around the
country later this month, from Ketty Ketty to Dunedin twenty
three films including comedy, thrillers and dramas. You can win tickets.
All you have to do is head to Newstalk zb
dot co dot nz ford slash win to enter and
for more about the French Film Festival twenty twenty five.
You'll find all the information there. Science is up next.

(01:01:40):
We love our SUVs, don't we? But maybe having our
roads stack with them isn't as safe as we think.
We're going to hear more on this next. It is
twenty seven to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on news Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Gosh. We love our SUVs and our utes, don't we.
We know that there are some downsides they know, not
great for the environment, and they can cause a bit
of congestion on the road. But something else has come
to light about how safe they make our roads. Joining
me now to talk us through the latest studies is
Lori Winkless. Good morning, Lourie Certo Frantasica. I love you

(01:02:23):
to be here. Good to talk to you too. Now
tell me a little bit about the latest studies that
have been taking a look at the safety of SUVs.

Speaker 19 (01:02:32):
Yeah, so this is looking particularly at the impact of
SUVs on pedestrians and cyclists. So this is from a
group of researchers in the UK and they did what's
known as it a meta analysis, So they effectually did
a big, huge review of existing studies and combined those
with the most reliable data and in the end they
ended up looking at six hundred and eighty two thousand

(01:02:55):
real world crash victims from the past thirty five years,
specifically looking at cars, SUVs, pedestrians and cyclists, and they
found that in a crash, pedestrians and cyclis struck by
an suv suffered more severe injuries than those that were
involving a passenger car. But they also had a huge
impact on fatality rates too. So they showed in this

(01:03:17):
study that across all of their crashes, pedestrians or cyclists
are forty four percent more likely to be killed if
they're struck by an suv rather than a passenger car.
And for children the statistics are even worse. So a
child struck by an suv is eighty two percent more
likely to be killed than a child struck by a

(01:03:38):
passenger car.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Okay, that is not right news. What about for occupants?
Did they learn anything about safety for occupants of an ECUV?

Speaker 19 (01:03:47):
Yeah, great question, good question. They didn't look at it
in this particular study. That there have been lots of
other studies that have looked at occupants, And to be honest,
the reality of whether SUVs are safer for occupants is
a bit complicated, more complicated than I expected. So in
a head on crash, for example, between a car and
an SUV, generally the driver of the car comes out

(01:04:09):
less well from that situation.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
But we also know.

Speaker 19 (01:04:12):
That because SUVs are taller, they are more likely to
roll over in a crash, for example, and their stiff
structure might mean that when an impact happens, if the
passenger will experience what's called higher deceleration, so they'll stop quicker,
which can actually cause injuries in themselves. So it's not
that clear that necessarily that they're even safer for occupants,

(01:04:33):
but we know for sure from this huge meta analysis
that they are much more dangerous for everyone else on
the road.

Speaker 16 (01:04:39):
Laurie I was also.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Really interested to say that the Kresh study supports a
decision by a growing number of cities as well to
kind of encourage least of the use of SUV's end
utes on these streets.

Speaker 13 (01:04:51):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 19 (01:04:52):
So there's actually lots and lots of cities that are
trying to do things like making it more expensive to
park larger cars on their streets. So Paris is one
of the cities doing that the most. But places in
the UK in particular, they're really leading with banning advertise
of vehicles like SUVs or even airlines in some cases
within their cities because they see it as and I

(01:05:13):
quote today's tobacco. So cities are really trying a lot
of them are trying to push down and discourage or
disincentivize the purchase and use of these massive, super sized
vehicles on streets that were not designed for them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Laurie, thank you so much for filling in for doctor Micheldkinson.
We've really appreciated it over the last couple of weeks.
If you are in need of a lovely soup recipe,
maybe you were thinking I was going to make mum
some soup the lunch or dinner to day. Well, Mike
benda Elson is to the rec of he has got
a lovely autumn Vegi soup with lemon gallic breed for us. Next,

(01:05:51):
it is twenty one to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks.

Speaker 9 (01:05:58):
It Be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Lovely takes here from En saying, Hi, Francisca, sounds like
a magnificent book. This is the Minister of Time. We
were just talking to Callyenne Bradley. She writes, I've popped
it on my book list. Question how many women around
New Zealand, including myself A googling Lieutenant Graham Gore, A
Clive owenish smile on the face of a young Karen

(01:06:23):
Hines would be my assessment. I think you've hit the
nail on the head there, and I'm glad you've got
it on your last It's really worth a read. Right
time for our residence chef now, Mike vander Elsen.

Speaker 20 (01:06:33):
Joins me, Good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
You of course are a murro I resident. And Brad
Pitt apparently is staying in your neck of the wards.
Is he popped in?

Speaker 6 (01:06:44):
Apparently so the old the old rumor though, has been
turning fast. I'm pretty sure I know which road he's on.
And there's been a helicopter coming and going constantly from
the rest.

Speaker 15 (01:06:58):
So that's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
That's that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:00):
So he may he may look down on me as
I'm waving at him this day. Of course, full house
at the moment, the school is absolutely rammed full of mum's.

Speaker 20 (01:07:15):
Okay, I'll sit out the back hiding.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Well, that's that's not helping me very much today.

Speaker 8 (01:07:21):
No, it does.

Speaker 20 (01:07:22):
It does a she got some early presents from the kids.
We actually had a bit of a Mother's day dinner
last night, and I've prepared her favorite dinner, which is
chicken pie. That's in the fridge. It's ready to go.
So once the mayhem finishes here, we will sit down
and have a little glass of wine and chicken bike.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Oh sounds divine. Yes, I went out of my way
yesterday to make sure that all the ingredients for my
favorite meal ready for someone else to cook for me
tonight too. Sometimes you just got to take things into
your own hands, don't you. Although I would just like
to say, the daughter did text just before ten, so
she's done quite well.

Speaker 20 (01:07:54):
So she did you have Do you have all your
ingredients all lined up in the fridge with like a
little recipe next to it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
No, I just hope I just put the recipe on
the bench and I walk away, and someone else and
then I just and then I wait for the questions
and they're like, oh sorry, but oh sorry, but can
you tell me?

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Oh but what not?

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Yeah, but that's fine, it's all good. You've got a
goodie for us today, because who doesn't love an autumn
veggie soup?

Speaker 6 (01:08:20):
And I thought I would do this rather than something
too complicated, because then you know the people that are
unprepared or have not got an idea of what they're
going to do for lunch or afternoon to you or
even the early dinner. I thought this would be good
because it's full of it's full of goodness. It's full
of veggies, is going to keep mum fit and strong.
But it's also full of ingredients that are readily available.

(01:08:42):
So if you do need to pop down the road,
you should be able to get all these things.

Speaker 20 (01:08:48):
Reasonably easily brilliant through go through it. So it's called
an autumn veggie soup. So the soup first that the
bread part is eating the better part, but the soup
heat a large pot two tablespoons and sunflower and goes
one medium onion that's been peeled and chopped up four
closes of garlic. They've been peeled a I'm going to
add in three carrots that are been peeled in, diced,

(01:09:10):
and a cup of chopped celery, four bay leaves into
a pan. Saute that for a couple of minutes until
it just starts to become translucent and you start to
smell those beautiful onions at work. Then in goes.

Speaker 6 (01:09:22):
I can hold your tomatoes that have been chopped up,
a can of Cannellini beans readily available white beans. Any
sort of white bean will do. Bartty bean will be good.
Just drain them first, add them in a leaf of
water choking a stock cube, and half testpoon of fennel
seeds that you've just lightly toasted in a pan, just
to bring out the aromatics of that fennel seed. Drop

(01:09:44):
that and bring it up to the ball similar or
ready looking for us for those carrots to be nice
and soft. Once the carrots are softened, I've got five
large spinach leaves. Just de stalk them, chop them up.
They go in half a color half a cup of
color mater olives. And if you've got here's a trick.
If you if you're using good palms and like bridge

(01:10:05):
out of palms a doon't or ground of done, and
you get to the rind and it's like, oh what
do I do with this rye?

Speaker 20 (01:10:10):
Don't throw it away? Put it into a little saplock bag.
Put it into the freezer, freeze it. And at this
point when you're making a soup, pull out that rind
and add it into the soup because the soup will
get all the flavor from the rind. And then once
your finish, just pull that rind out throw it away.
It's done, So just sim of the soup for another
ten to fifteen minutes and then they'll be good. The
lemon garlic bread super easy. Just get some chewy rolls

(01:10:32):
like a chair barter roll, and then take one hundred
and fifty grands of butter. Mix that with four tablespoons
passes been dropped up, three closing garlic that have been crushed,
the zest and the juice of one lemon, some flaky
salt crack pepper. Mix that all together. You've got delicious
lemon garlic butter. Cut your rolls up, smother your butter inside.
You can either go old school, where you wrap it

(01:10:54):
up in tinfall and fire on them into the oven,
or just leave the tinfoil out and just fire the
bread into the oven, Warm it up, serve with the soup.
Done deal.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
I love it. Thank you so much, Mike. Enjoy your
little hide there for a moment in the back room.
Autumn veggie sip with lemon garlic bread that is available
at Good from Scratch dot co in z or head
to the Newstalk ZB website newstalg zb dot co, dot
and z forward slash Sunday. You'll find all our interviews
and recipes and all our bits and pieces there on

(01:11:24):
the website for you now. News talk ZB is your
home for cirque perks. Just in time for Mother's Day.
You can head to Newstalk sedb as well dot co
dot in z forward slash win to be in to
win a double vip ticket to Sirk the Soleas Courteo.
It's coming to Auckland Spark Arena from October the thirtieth
no to November the second. Don't miss it. So if

(01:11:46):
you want to win a couple of tickets to Courteo,
just head to Newstalks ed b as well. It's all
hapening at Newstalk ZB dot co dot in Z. Right,
since it's Mother's Day, we thought we'd talk about work
life balance and managing the mental load and wellness. That's
next with Erin. It is twelve to eleven leep.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
It's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
It's Sundays for Sunset, which has good wid calls of
the best selection of great breads, news talks end be
and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Time to talk wellness. Earin O'Hara is with us. Good morning,
Good morning, and I see you've got a nice little
Mother's Day topic for us today. Really just talking about
women and our work life balance, which actually ardent liv exists.
I think you should just let go of it, not
trying to attempt it.

Speaker 21 (01:12:29):
It's absolutely questionable whether the women can actually have the
dual pressure of a full time career and have also
the family responsibilities as well. And there's lots of research
actually done in this in some research suggests that women
spend on average four point five hours a day on
care duties around the home in comparison to men can

(01:12:51):
be between one hour and twenty three minutes, so quite
a big difference. And that's not judging men as being
not doing enough around the house, but that's actually just
research space.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
We're just valuing the unpaid work that women do, which
is quite a.

Speaker 21 (01:13:05):
Lot, and sometimes it's unseen as well, is that they're
putting you know, they're running the house quite often and
organizing the kids and cooking the food and doing the shopping.
And there's a lot of load on women in the house,
especially when they're running a full time job as well,
and sometimes it can mean women feel unsupported and they
can't create that balance of work life home commitments.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Mental load is the sort of the trendy word for
it these days, managing the mental load.

Speaker 21 (01:13:33):
Mental load, invisible stress, you know, because I think people
disregard like that. You know, the jobs you're doing around
the house is being workloads, but it's a lot, and
it's a lot to kind of keep up with as well.
And that's where women frequently can feel overwhelmed by their workload,
not just the work at their physical job, but actually
the workload at home as well, and that imbalance can

(01:13:56):
create problems with chronic stress, sometimes poor sleep, and also
just neglecting your own physical and mental health as well,
because quite often I find women in the clubs they
put themselves right at the bottom of the list and they.

Speaker 16 (01:14:09):
Know what to do.

Speaker 21 (01:14:10):
But it's more they've got all the other things they're
doing and trying to run that they actually put themselves
further down the list, and they prioritize everyone else in
the family before themself. But actually you ustually my suggestion
is put yourself to the top of the list, so
no different than being on an aeroplane. Put your own
mask on first. Is actually kind of looking at it
as like the better you feel, the better you can

(01:14:32):
be working well and have good productivity, good mom, good family.
You know, you can keep the family running. And if
you don't look after yourself, then you're never going to
be great in doing all of the load that you've got.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
A here's really nice way of putting it, actually your
own because I don't kind of like the term like
self care. I'm going to take some time for myself
and self that doesn't kind of resonate that well with me.
But actually just putting it as simpody as the way
you have makes a lot of sense to yourself first. Still,
the things that you know are good for.

Speaker 21 (01:15:00):
You exercise, sleep, eat well, manage your stress also creates
some downtime, which I think is the hardest thing for
women is sometimes you'll have that guilt of like when
you're not doing and you know you're even just sitting
on the couch or reading a book and you think, oh,
I should be doing the washing, and I should be
doing the shopping, and I should be doing this, And
it can for someone women create a bit of guilt

(01:15:22):
that they're not doing enough.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Worked through that, Actually, yeah, sit on the couch quite happily.

Speaker 21 (01:15:28):
Yeah, Instead be like, okay, it's okay to do things
for yourself and actually prioritizing that and putting it into
the plan for the week of like planning out, Okay,
where can I get some little bit to exercise in?
Where can I prioritize making some healthy food for yourself
and some downtime. Also, learning to say no is absolutely okay,

(01:15:49):
like no when you're over committed and that you're not superwoman.
You don't need to do everything. Seek help when you
need it. Also, if you know you're getting your loads
getting too big, whether it's getting a little bit of
extra childcare support, maybe getting a cleaner maybe. Another big
suggestion I usually is whether you do my food bab
or whip or fresh Start or something to help with

(01:16:12):
the cooking for the week because it actually can help
take off some of that mental load as well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Brilliant, Thank you so much, Erin and I think it
was season three, wasn't it, Carrie. We did a whole
episode on mental load if you want to have listened
to that on the Little Things. It is six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
At b.

Speaker 15 (01:16:34):
UP.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Next here on the Sunday Session, Robin Malcolm joins us
to talk about the significance of the baff denomination for
the show she co created after the Party. The show
has won various other words around the world, and yet
when we spoke to Robin last time, she was so
nervous to release this show and see what kind of
reaction it was going to get. In turns out, reaction
has not been too bad. So Robin Malcolm is with us. Next,

(01:16:57):
we're going to finish the hour with a little bit
of Bob Dylan. Hey, if you missed a Complete Unknown,
a film about Bob Dylan at the Movies earlier in
the year, I just want to let you know it
is available now on Disney, So if you have a
Disney sub it is free. Go and watch it. It really
is fabulous.

Speaker 16 (01:17:12):
Spectually you can hear people cry is how many deaths
will it take to He knows that too many people.

Speaker 22 (01:17:26):
Have died, and so my friend is blowing in the wind.
He answer is blowing.

Speaker 16 (01:17:37):
In the wind.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 22 (01:17:59):
Used to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Thank coming up for this hour on the Sunday Session,
Piney on the warriors who hung on against the dragons
last night. They are now sitting second on the table.
I said that with quite a lot of surprise tonight,
a lot of attention on the Vatican at the moment.
Are you inspired to visit? Megan has some tips for
you and also this hour Jone is a couple of
Kewi novels for us, including the latest from Catherine Chig.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Well, we are under twenty four hours away from this
year's Bafters. The British Academy of Film and Television Awards
take place six a a m. New Zealand time tomorrow
and they have a particular significance for kiwis this year
our very own homegrown drama. After the party is up
for Best International TV Series. This follows the show picking
up a record haul of nine awards at the New
Zealand Television Awards last year. Head of the Bafts, lead

(01:18:54):
actress and co creator Robin Malcolm joins me from the
streets of London. Good morning, Robin.

Speaker 15 (01:19:01):
Yoa lovely to hear your point.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
So good to all to you. Tomorrow is the big day.
How are you feeling?

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
Well?

Speaker 13 (01:19:11):
Kind of great?

Speaker 23 (01:19:13):
I mean it's all it's you know, the fun bits,
the cinderellbant, which is the get the frock, get the shoes.

Speaker 15 (01:19:22):
Get the jewels.

Speaker 23 (01:19:23):
What's really beautiful is that the makeup artist from After
the Party is actually here in London at the moment
working on a show, so she's coming to the hotel
tomorrow morning to do here and.

Speaker 15 (01:19:35):
Make up for everyone.

Speaker 23 (01:19:36):
So you know, all that's brilliant and we're kind of
we're in the best position possible really because we're an
outside horse. You know, we've got a chance, but it's
not a big champ. So if weirdly, you know, we
ended up getting up on stage, then that would be
mind blowing.

Speaker 15 (01:19:57):
But it's not.

Speaker 23 (01:19:58):
It's completely brilliant being here and being part of it,
and you know, I mean, I'm still blown away by
how much.

Speaker 15 (01:20:05):
Of an impact the show's had here.

Speaker 23 (01:20:08):
It's somebody said to me today, I don't know that
you realize how beloved it is now, which is given
given a subject matter, it's a strange word to use,
but I think, yeah, they really really really dug it.
So you know, the whole thing's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Why do you think this show has resonated with people?

Speaker 23 (01:20:29):
I think in one way, you know, it's the it's
the story. It's definitely the story that did he do it?
Didn't he do it? And the kind of ping pong
between those characters. Then on top of that, it's the
character driven drama, and people are really really responded to
all the characters, in particular. I think, you know, Penny,

(01:20:51):
because this is a new kind of character. I don't
think we've seen this, you know, And that was the
point was to write a middle aged woman that wasn't
getting a chance to be part of a story on screen.
And so I think people are really really responded to that.
And in terms of over here, I've been reflecting on it,

(01:21:12):
and I there's something very different, like a lot of
people have been saying you know, this is the best
thing that we've seen in our country in a long, long,
long time.

Speaker 15 (01:21:20):
I feel like.

Speaker 23 (01:21:21):
It's got something to do with the tone of it,
Like it's a we have a warmth in New Zealand
that's quite different to over here, and I think that translates,
and I think that's kind of having an impact.

Speaker 15 (01:21:35):
Does that make sense? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah, you know the show was very much done on
your terms. It is against the norm of what's been made.
Does that make the show success all the more satisfying
for you?

Speaker 15 (01:21:50):
Yeah? Absolutely, it's a real vindication. And we've talked about
that a lot.

Speaker 23 (01:21:55):
Is that I didn't come up through the usual writer's pathway,
you know, she wrote independent film. We went into it
not really knowing the rules of television. I mean I
knew them from the perspective of, you know, being an
actor and working with scripts, but in terms of the
rules that you're meant to follow, we really didn't take

(01:22:17):
much notice of any of that. And there was a
bit of naysaying early on. It's like, oh, you know,
you can't do it like that, you can't do it
like that. Oh she's got to be more likable, she's
got to be.

Speaker 15 (01:22:26):
This she's got to be that. No, that's not the
way television has made and.

Speaker 23 (01:22:30):
We tended to sort of ignore most of that, and
I think that's made the difference. And you know, you
can there's so much content on streamers now, and what's wonderful.

Speaker 15 (01:22:43):
Is that.

Speaker 23 (01:22:46):
Television industry is cracked wide open and people are breaking
rules left front and center, and that's what makes the
great story, I think. So, yeah, yeah, it's been. It's
been very certifying that side of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Does it also give power for more shows like this,
more roles like this in a move away from casting
much younger women in that should go to middle aged women.

Speaker 15 (01:23:09):
I really really hope.

Speaker 8 (01:23:11):
So.

Speaker 15 (01:23:11):
There's part of me that thinks yes in some.

Speaker 23 (01:23:17):
In some areas of the industry, but no, because you know,
old habits die hard, and because television is such a
commercial world and money is so key for people, and
the minute you know money and art combine, you're in trouble.

Speaker 15 (01:23:40):
You know, it becomes reductive very quickly.

Speaker 23 (01:23:44):
And the people with the money don't tend to be
the artist, do you know what I mean? And that's
where the rules come from, I believe, so. I do
hope so, And but I think it will happen solely.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Robin, you came into Chat before the show was released
last year and you said to me that you you
were sick with fear about how after the party was
going to be received. You actually said to me, this
could go down like a cup of cold sick. How
long does it take for you to go? You know what,
We've made a really good show and it's all going

(01:24:22):
to be okay.

Speaker 15 (01:24:24):
Well, i'll tell you what.

Speaker 23 (01:24:25):
On the when we screened it in Wellington, we played
the first three episodes at the Roxy Cinema in Wellington too,
a sort of an audience of about four hundred people.
And I was sick with fear, and I gripped Dye's
hand through the whole thing, to the point where she
said to me, you have to let go of my

(01:24:45):
hand because you're breaking it. And afterwards that got this
wonderful response and people were clapping and I still wasn't sure.
And then I turned around and stood out, and coming
towards me was Kim Hill.

Speaker 24 (01:24:59):
And I thought, oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
dear God, no.

Speaker 15 (01:25:04):
No no, not Kim Hill. And she just charge let
me going.

Speaker 25 (01:25:07):
I was brilliant.

Speaker 8 (01:25:08):
It was brilliant.

Speaker 15 (01:25:09):
It was brilliant. I thought, okay, great, if Kim loves it,
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
I love it. You're up against Australian comedy Colin from Accounts,
the Irish drama Say Nothing, American true detective Like Country,
and Japan's Showgun. Have you seen any of these shows?
How are you feeling about the competition?

Speaker 20 (01:25:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 23 (01:25:26):
Yeah, yeah, Well Showgun is the obvious one because it's
won awards around the world and it's a great show.

Speaker 15 (01:25:35):
I loved Showgun, I really did.

Speaker 23 (01:25:39):
It's epic and it's huge, and it's beautifully acted, beautifully written,
beautifully shot. Colin from Accounts is genius. I just finished
watching Say Nothing, and I think that's an astounding show.
We're in an amazing category, I have to say, and.

Speaker 15 (01:26:02):
Just to be in that category is an honor in itself.
I suspect Shogun or take it, but you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Never know, You're never know, and you absolutely deserve to
be there.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
Robin.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
This week we heard your Pike River film or premiere
in Sydney next month, and obviously we can't say too
much about the film just yet, but what was it
like to film.

Speaker 23 (01:26:27):
Extraordinary? To be in Graymouth, in the place that where
it happened to be surrounded by people who were directly
affected by it, and we were with Sonya and Anna
almost every day, you know, they came to step every day,
and they were deeply connected to the making of it.

(01:26:52):
Really wanted to do right by them as much as anything,
and to kind of relive it with them felt kind
of profound and heartbreaking. And of course, you know, I
just around the time that it happened. It was not
long after the Hobbit dispute, and I've made good friends

(01:27:13):
with Helen Kelly by then, and so I was seeing
her a lot when she was on the West Coast
supporting these women, and I was hearing so much of
it through her, so I sort of.

Speaker 15 (01:27:28):
I felt really.

Speaker 23 (01:27:29):
Connected back to her as well, you know, I mean
she passed a number of years ago now, and so
the whole it felt it was it was a real
honor to be part of it and.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
Your place on your rock house who, as you say,
was such a close you know, was so closely associated
with it. Have you ever played a real person who
is so associated with a.

Speaker 15 (01:27:52):
With a thing?

Speaker 23 (01:27:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so far North, you know,
the one I did this, Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:27:59):
So those two characters. I mean, we used their house
and it's it's an interesting.

Speaker 23 (01:28:07):
Experience because you're not thinking about your performance. You're not
thinking am I being a good actor or a bad actor?
All you're thinking about is doing right by the real person.

Speaker 15 (01:28:22):
You're sort of driven by quite different things in a
strange kind of way. And I felt that with fun
North and definitely with Pike here.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Robin, what has the significance of this nomination been for you?
I mean, I know that you were in the UK
when you got the news. You've got UK management?

Speaker 15 (01:28:39):
Is that new?

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
What's kind of personally career wise kind of happened for
you since? You know, after the party.

Speaker 23 (01:28:46):
It's been pretty extraordinary. I have to say, I've met everybody.
You know, everybody is wanting me to work with them.
I've met other writers. My agent is like, after parties
open doors that could not have opened otherwise, you know,
which is kind of great after you've turned sixty.

Speaker 15 (01:29:08):
Not bad, not bad, not bad, not bad. And the
same for Die.

Speaker 23 (01:29:13):
You know, Die has been over here for about ten
days and we've been doing some work together and some
new projects. But also Die has been going and meeting
pretty much every production. How it's going over here, and
they all they kind of all want what we've got,
which is really nice because we've got quite a lot
now because we're both old birds, we've got a lot

(01:29:35):
going on and now and I'll cross the old heads
and so and they're really into it, which is wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
I'm so excited for you, Robin. So what's the plan
for tomorrow? Is the whole team over there for the awards?

Speaker 15 (01:29:47):
Yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 23 (01:29:48):
We've got is Diane me, Peter has come down from Glasgow,
Peter Salmon the director, Helen Bowden the producer, and list
of furre As the producer.

Speaker 15 (01:29:58):
We're all here.

Speaker 23 (01:30:00):
So the thing kicks off the red carpets at two thirty,
so it starts early and then ceremony is at four
and then that finishes round about eight and then there's
a dinner and there's a big fat party.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
My goodness, that's a long day, Robin. Are you a
young day and you dress to the nines. I presume
you try and take a comfort your approach to things.

Speaker 5 (01:30:23):
I do.

Speaker 15 (01:30:23):
I do it absolutely, I did well.

Speaker 23 (01:30:26):
I did say that I was going to wear trainers,
but I've gone completely other way and I've got Monster
heels and Zambezi have made me a frock which is amazing.
And Zoe and Morgan and another jeweler. She's a new Zealander,

(01:30:46):
but she's been in London for thirty years, Jessica McCormack.
They've they've allowed us to adorn ourselves in their jewelry.

Speaker 15 (01:30:55):
So it's all very It's a wonderful dress up.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
You just need to sneak a pair of jandles in
for a little bit later.

Speaker 23 (01:31:00):
Robin, you know, yeah, we know what you do is
you go to Primark and for ten quid you buy
a roll these roles ballet flat and you put them
either in your purse or in your pocket and then
you just brust them out later. I love it, Okay,
so much advice, the great you know, this is how
you do it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
I also heard that you swore you'd never wear shape
whear again after you last attended the bath. Is are
you sticking to that?

Speaker 23 (01:31:25):
Oh yes, absolutely no shapewear absolutely not, because there's a
dinner you've got about to eat.

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
Love it, you know, if Robin Malcolm, I couldn't wish
the success on anyone more deserving. I hope you have
an absolute ball tomorrow and best of luck.

Speaker 15 (01:31:41):
Thank you, thank you so much. It's lovely to hear
and it's really great to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
And the bath to start six a m. New Zealand
time tomorrow. You can catch the awards on Sky Arts
if you haven't seen after the party, it's on tv
NZ plus. It's twenty one past eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:31:57):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wogles for
the best selection of great reeds us talk it be it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
It's time for the panel and today I'm joined by
broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Good morning, Wilhelmina, good morning,
and also z to b Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills.

Speaker 5 (01:32:17):
How you doing, Nick, I'm doing great things and great
thank you for not calling me a reporter as well.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Were you happy we Were you happy with the introduction?
Was it okay?

Speaker 5 (01:32:28):
Ning it pretty? I don't want to claim to have
any reporter.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Right, no, fair enough? No, I think I think we're
all we're all in our right boxes. Let's stalk by
talking about lobbying. But I had a chat to Ann
Tolly about this earlier this morning, because there's been a
few cases of you know, we suddenly realizing the impact
that maybe tobacco and alcohol lobbyists can have on our policy,
which really shouldn't be of a huge surprise. But I

(01:32:57):
suppose the question, Willemina is how much input and how
much weight should be taken should they have and we
should put on their input and should be more transparent
about it.

Speaker 13 (01:33:08):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 26 (01:33:10):
I definitely think when it comes to making decisions and
forming policies about something as important as health, for all
sides and all opinions and all experiences of course should
be considered as long as that one particular side isn't
being favored over the other for any particular reason. It
would seem to me that the industry, in particular the
likes of tobacco and alcohol industries, would have insights perhaps

(01:33:31):
that others may not be able to address.

Speaker 13 (01:33:33):
And given how big a player they.

Speaker 26 (01:33:34):
Are, they're a really important voice to be heard in
this discussion and in the process of forming this policy,
so it wouldn't really be fair to silence them. But
I do agree with what Anne was saying earlier on
the show that it does need to be transparent. Transparency
means that we're able to better keep decision and policy
makers accountabile. Everything's above board, we understand the process, and

(01:33:55):
we need to make sure that. Of course, if there's
more eyeballs on it and we know what's going on,
that it's hard anything dodgy to go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Well, I mean everyone should be able to have their say, Nick, right.

Speaker 5 (01:34:05):
Yeah, I'm not a great fan of lobbyists and the
whole stuff that came out that they've got VIP cards
that can sniff in to be hive any time they want.
And these are very very clever and influential people that
have been decision makers in the past, have got connections
from a past life. You know, I think it needs
to be one hell of a more transparent than it

(01:34:25):
is right now. And even someone like myself who does
sell alcohol, Yes there should be a view, and yes
there should be the information should be there, but it
should be so transparent that everybody can see everything. And
you know, I think that you know, the whole idea
of some elite group of ex journalists X high profile

(01:34:47):
people can have some sort of influence over some stuff
that's probably probably not that great. It's not a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
Well, I think there is an issue, isn't there when
someone walks straight out of being a minister and cabinet
and then takes a lobby job and they know exactly
kind of where the government sits, what their ideas are
on things, how they work. Will you know, I don't
think that's an ideal situation that someone can walk straight
into that environment. There needs a bit of a stand
down period, doesn't there?

Speaker 25 (01:35:13):
Oh?

Speaker 13 (01:35:13):
One hundred percent?

Speaker 26 (01:35:14):
I mean that knowledge, that information, those contacts, even those
processes like you say, like this white cars, that's all
an area of privilege that perhaps other groups who are
also trying to have their say and their view heard
and don't have so completely think that there should be
a firm line drawn in the sand, a stand down period.
That's not to say that those connections are going to
fall by the wayside, They'll always be there, but I

(01:35:37):
think the objects of it, definitely in the first instance,
is to have that distance.

Speaker 13 (01:35:42):
Will mean that it's a more robust process.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
You'd hope, Nick, just playing devil's advocate here, could you say,
do you think it would be okay to say, actually,
if we are dealing with life and death, we're dealing
with something as serious as tobacco, which has a massive
impact on someone's house. Yes, we should limit lobbying or
do you think that? But it's too difficult then you
you know, it's hard to draw a line in the sand.

(01:36:06):
Lobby and constance stop and.

Speaker 5 (01:36:09):
Even the thought you know, it's Mother's Day and happy
Mother's data all by the way you think about it,
you know, fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. Alcohol lobbyists being able
to have a say in that, really is that anything?

Speaker 7 (01:36:23):
I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:36:24):
I understand about where you can sell alcohol and what
alcohol does, they should be involved in all that, But
something as specific as that that really? Sorry that that
grinds my gears.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
A little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Rot you what I mean it.

Speaker 26 (01:36:36):
I just don't think that it would be fair to
say no to one particular facet and then say yes
to others.

Speaker 13 (01:36:44):
I totally understand the concern.

Speaker 26 (01:36:46):
I agree with the concern and the potential sway that
they might have, but I just don't think it can
be one set of rules for one section or facet
or policy an area and.

Speaker 13 (01:36:56):
Another set of rules for other It has to be
one one way or the other and the.

Speaker 5 (01:36:59):
Other thing that we've got to remember is these are
very influential, smart people that are obvious on talking about
They can very very much sway people. They swayed people
in their previous lives. The history is very careful.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
Yeah, I mean, the history of tobacco lobbyists since the
nineteen fifties is actually quite fascinating. But look, that's a
whole nother story. Let's move on to AI, and we're
taking a look at what's happening in the UK because
of course, I think we're all very concerned about AI
and making sure that you know, we can get all
the benefits from it but without destroying industries, and creative
industries are particularly concerned about it, and in the UK
four hundred British musicians and writers and artists have said,

(01:37:37):
hang on a minute. The system that you want to
all set up, which is basically I have to opt
out of allowing AI companies to scrape my material and
use the data, isn't going to work. We want a
little bit more reassurance from you that you're going to
develop some kind of licensing regime that's going to allow,
you know, for this human created content well into the future.

(01:37:59):
I think they've got I think that This is absolutely
the conversation we should be having willing manner. But I
just think it's really hard to put in place and
for it to have an impact, because as a UK
company doesn't like what's been implied to them, they can
just set up somewhere else and continue scraping whatever material
they want.

Speaker 26 (01:38:19):
On undred percent, AI is such a fascinating topic. I
can talk about it if ever. It's so exciting but
also quite scary at the same time. You know, you've
got the likes of political figures videos being made as
propaganda and it's not actually there more, the likes of
deep fake pornography where someone's taking someone else's image and
using artificial intelligence to jus it and make it look

(01:38:40):
as if it's them.

Speaker 8 (01:38:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 26 (01:38:42):
Look, I think that there is definitely there's merit and
introducing some form of legislation or rules of regulation, but
I just worry about it actually keeping up with the
technological advances. I mean, we saw this a lot with
Digital Communications Act. The intent, the sentiment was there to
try and crack down unharmful behavior online, but given how
fast moving technology is, a lot of that struggles to

(01:39:03):
keep up. And I know there was a point in
time I was doing stories around revenge and it's since
been amended and changed now, but previously the threshold for
proving harm was so high it was near impossible to
keet a conviction. And those harm tactics online are just
constantly changing. So that's not to say that we shouldn't
introduce something now because the longer we leave it, the

(01:39:23):
faster the horse is going to bolt, but just how
effective it will be and keeping up unless things are
rushed through under urgency really really quickly, it's yeah, I'm
not sure if it'll be able to keep up with
the changes.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
Because Nick, we all want to be you know, forward thinking,
tech kind of minded countries, don't we. We we want
to jump on board this, but you also got to
make sure that you're protecting people along the way.

Speaker 5 (01:39:50):
I'm sorry, but it's bolted and it's not you're not
going to be in the cage. It's gone. I mean,
we have a segments show with a very amazing music
like called James Irwin that comes on. He recorded three
songs with three different ideas on a and all three
sounded like hits and it was done. He said he
did it in seven minutes. So the world's gone. It's gone,

(01:40:13):
and it is really really exciting, and it is scary.
It is a tiny bit scary. But to think that
we can stop AI from recording a hit record or
pinching somebody's lyrics or pinching somebody's beat or somebody's rhythm
to make something, it's absolutely gone. And I'm sorry. No
matter what anyone tries to do, this is the new
world now, and artists will have to be creative again,

(01:40:37):
and they'll have to perform. They'll have to go out
and travel and perform to make their money. And maybe
it's the world will change. Maybe we'll go back to
albums and CDs and stuff so that you have to
physically have them on your hand.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
Yeah, I don't think Spotify would like that idea very much,
but yeah, you know, it does come back to what
makes us human, and that is our creativity and our
originality in that respect. But I don't think that you
can just completely go oh yeah or copy right laws
a sort of let's just flag it and let's not
bother trying to come up with a solution here that

(01:41:12):
protects people's you know work.

Speaker 26 (01:41:16):
Well, I mean one hundred percent, one hundred percent that's
the thing.

Speaker 13 (01:41:21):
What I was saying is that even if we think the.

Speaker 26 (01:41:23):
Horse has bolted, we can't just throw up our hands
and not do anything about it. What I think is
really interesting, and I saw someone actually post about this
on social media a couple of days ago, is there's
this massive rise in AI, but it's getting to the
point now where there's so much of it, and a
lot a lot of it's really advanced, and sometimes we
can't tell, but I think a lot of people are
starting to pick up the nuances and AI produced audio, video,

(01:41:45):
even text through chat GPT. I was reading something where
someone was saying, I'm actually getting to the point now
where I'm so used to the language and the style
that chat GPT produces that they can actually pick it up,
and various businesses copy or captions on social media. So
at the same time, perhaps we have regulation and laws,
but at the other point, we've got methods and way

(01:42:06):
of actually recognizing whether something's being produced by AI. You know,
perhaps there's technology, I mean, I know there's technology you
can scan content through to pick up whether it was
created by II, but we're getting more advanced in the
way that we recognize it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Neckmels. What I mean is Shrimpton. Thank you very much
for your time this morning. Appreciate it. It is twenty
five to twelve. Piney is up next.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b Coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
At midday's Jason Pine with Weekend Sport and he's with
me now. Good morning, Happy Mother's Day, Francesca. I thank
you very much. I've heard from one child. I mean,
I make it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
I make it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
I've got proof of life. Oh hang on, no, that's
just my physio appointment confirmation. I've heard from one, which
is pretty good. I haven't heard from the out of towner,
but that's okay. I'll give him time to wake up
and remember what the day is.

Speaker 27 (01:43:03):
It's still the morning, remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
Oh you know, I have pretty low expectations, Pinny. To
be honest with you, I'm all good. Hey, the Warriors
last night, I almost I just kind of couldn't watch
the end.

Speaker 27 (01:43:15):
Yeah, well you wouldn't have been the only one. There
was some tense moments up in the coaching box too,
by the looks of things. But you know what they
they have found away this year, had it pointed out
to me. Last year they lost at least half a
dozen games by sort of four to six points. This
year they've won four games now by that sort of margin.
So they've found a way to close out tight games

(01:43:36):
that didn't exist last year. That's got to be a
huge part of their of their run deep into the
NFL Season.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
Round, because they're not it's not like you look at
them and go, gosh, they're playing brilliantly, but they've just
they can just they can hold on and they can
finish yep, which running away.

Speaker 27 (01:43:52):
Yeah, yeah, they're finding away. And there are a lot
of ways to win a rugby league game, you know,
and you know they're not all going to be expensive
games where you're running seven or eight tries, and when
it comfortably going away, sometimes you do have to grind
it out. And they did last night, as they did
against the Cowboys in Magic Round, as they had against
the Broncos a couple of weeks before that. So they're

(01:44:12):
finding a way and look, four winds on the trot.
They haven't done that since the back end of twenty
twenty three. We know what happened at the end of
that year, and how excited we all got about the Warriors,
so look, I mean they'll be delighted they have the
Dolphins away next weekend and then the Raiders at home.
And of course we know the Raiders were the team
that beat the Warriors in Round one in Vegas, so

(01:44:34):
I get the feeling there'll be a few there'll be
a few conversations around that ahead of the Raiders game
in a couple of weeks. But no, looking good for
the Warriors.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
You been talking league this afternoon.

Speaker 27 (01:44:44):
I am indeed Stacy Jones going to join us after
midday too. Intest unpack it all. Obviously is rugby last
night as well?

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
With the Chiefs, I mean thirty five Crusaders nineteen crazy.

Speaker 27 (01:44:54):
I texted a good friend of mine who's a Crusader
supporter in the first half when they were nineteen three
ahead and said, look, obviously twenty twenty four are complete aberration.
Crusaders are going to win it again. And then Chiefs
came storming back with thirty two unanswered points crazy away
from home, beating the Crusaders overs in christ Church. Incredible.

(01:45:15):
So Chiefs are clearly the favorites for Super Rugby now,
so we'll cover that off. But a netball this afternoon,
some basketball and some football as well. We're now Walkland
FC are going to be facing Melbourne victory. Now home
and away. Actually that weekend when the Warriors play the Raiders.
The Saturday night is Auckland FC against Melbourne Victory. On
the Sunday it's Warriors Raider. I might just pull up

(01:45:35):
a bed.

Speaker 2 (01:45:37):
What do you think they're both in Auckland Raws. Yeah,
both at.

Speaker 3 (01:45:40):
The same ground.

Speaker 16 (01:45:42):
Both that go media.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
I'm just going to get a roll out bed. Look,
you'll be heare. I'll make sure you've got a car park.

Speaker 27 (01:45:50):
I know that's been bugging you for such fast folk class.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
I'm thinking to myself, how is this man supposed to
leave his show and run out and put some money
in the media. That's ridiculous. So look, I'll make sure
looking forward to it. Thank you, pony. I'll make sure
you've got a car park.

Speaker 25 (01:46:01):
Sort.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
Jason Pine will be back with you at midday. It
is twenty to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
News talksb.

Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
Travel with Windy Woo Tours. Where the world is yours
for now?

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
I don't know about you, but this week as we
have been, you know, all eyes have been on Rome,
and we've we've got our new pope and things. I've
been reminiscing about the first time that I went to
the Vatican and went to Rome. I was seventeen years old,
and I even got the photo album out. I know,
because and those days we took photos and developed them
and put them in albums and it was really lovely.
And I thought, I'm sure there's a lot of people
who may be heading to Rome and thinking about visiting

(01:46:41):
the Vatican City. So we've got Megan Singleton, our travel
correspondent on the job. And of course Meghan has visited
several times and she joins me, now, hello.

Speaker 24 (01:46:52):
Hello, I've been so curious about it this week as well.
But I bet you when you went at seventeen, you
took photos of the ceiling and you were allowed to.

Speaker 13 (01:47:00):
I did, Yeah, yeah, I know what you were worried.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
I took photos of everything.

Speaker 25 (01:47:04):
Yeah, because you can.

Speaker 24 (01:47:05):
You can definitely take photos of the Vatican museums and
everywhere else, but you're not allowed to take photos in
the Sistine Chapel. And the reason is not for what
you think, because I thought, oh, because the flash photography
will damage the artwork, but it's not about that. In
the eighties a Japanese company paid four million US dollars
to fund the restoration work of all the artwork in there,

(01:47:29):
and in return they got to own the copyright of
all of the images. But that has long expired. So
you'll still get shouted at if you're trying to take photos.
But apparently the reason now is because it's for crowd management.

Speaker 25 (01:47:42):
Yeah, I don't know how old you think took photos.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
I don't know how old you think I am. Again,
I wasn't actually allowed to take photos in the assisting chapel,
but I did take a lot of photos. They make
you buy the book when you leave, you know, you
go through the bookshop. On the way out, exit through
the bookshop.

Speaker 24 (01:47:57):
And you have to do these days with your cell phone.
You just put it on selfie, you hold it down
by your hip and you just snap away.

Speaker 25 (01:48:04):
Quiet.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
No, no, the no, quite, the camera's been quite that sophisticated.
But it is an extraordinary place, isn't it.

Speaker 25 (01:48:13):
No, it really is.

Speaker 24 (01:48:14):
And I've just gone down rabbit holes just finding out.
I've been so curious about it all. So how do
they make the colored smoke.

Speaker 25 (01:48:22):
Is it open now? How long was it clostal?

Speaker 24 (01:48:24):
So it was closed from about a week after the
pope died until after the conclave ended.

Speaker 25 (01:48:29):
It opened reopened straight away to the public.

Speaker 24 (01:48:33):
And of course the artwork took about four years to
be painted, not just by Michaelangelo, but there were other
artists as well. But anyway, all about the smoke, They
so the ballot papers go into the fire. The chimney
was installed, specially after being read aloud by three scrutineers,
and then they add chemicals to make the smoke either

(01:48:54):
go black or white.

Speaker 25 (01:48:56):
So they go there. Actually satisfied me, thank you very much.

Speaker 24 (01:48:59):
And then they were all locked in their lead seals
were put on eighty doors to stop people coming in
going around the whole area while they were in their conclave,
and they stayed in a guest house in the Vatican premises.

Speaker 25 (01:49:14):
All of the cardinals. It's so fascinating.

Speaker 24 (01:49:17):
Apparently like eight food like airline food. But yeah, do
you want me to go on because it's quite fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:49:24):
Oh well, look as any yeah, anything else about the Vatican,
like would you suggest booking tickets and things?

Speaker 24 (01:49:31):
Yeah, for sure, because you'll go past and you'll see
people lined up for hours because they didn't book ahead.
If you book ahead, book a skip the line tour
and do a tour, because then you'll have a guide
just whispering in your earpiece, but you can move on ahead.
But you learn so much when you're on a little
tour rather than just wandering through yourself, so it's worth
spending a little bit extra to do that. And then

(01:49:52):
of course you get a timed entry, so you just
rock up at whatever time your tickets are for and
you're not waiting forever. So I would definitely advise people
to do that. And there's tons of websites that you'll
find tickets for sale on.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
Yeah, brilliant, Thank you so much, Megan. Lots of areas
and places to explore when you're in there as well.
It is a thirteen to twelve Up next, Joan is
going to talk about the latest book by Katherine Chidgy
and it is getting absolutely rave review. Someone did to
hear what Joan has to say about it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:24):
Books with Whitkles for the Best election of Greek Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
Joan Mackenzie, good morning, Hello, I am hearing incredible things
about Katherine Chidgy's new.

Speaker 12 (01:50:36):
Book yes, as you might, because it is extraordinary. Okay, Yeah,
it's called The Book of Guilt and shares the author
of a recent book called The x Men's Carnival, which
was an award winner here, and I think this one
will likely be a very strong awards contender as well.
It's set in an alternative England in nineteen seventy nine,

(01:50:57):
and a lot of that is recognizable to people of
a certain age, I think. But it's a country which
has been radically changed after World War Two, which in
this ended with Germany and the Allies reaching an agreement
in a compromise which has really affected society, and a
new prime minister's been elected who isn't named, but I
thought bore more than a parson resemblance to Margaret Thatcher

(01:51:19):
and the main characters of thirteen year old identical triplets Vincent,
William and Lawrence, and much of the stories told by Vincent.
Now they're the only children still living in a big
old house where they're part of something known as the
Sycamore Scheme, which was a government initiative which was prompted
by Nazi intelligence from the war, and they live under
the care of three mothers. There's Mother Mourning, Mother Afternoon

(01:51:42):
and Mother Night, who teached them from the Book of Knowledge.
They record their dreams in the Book of Dreams, and
when they're naughty, their misdemeanors are written down in the
Book of Guilt. And these kids suffer from something which
they call the bug, and they're constantly medicated and monitored.
But what they really really want is to get well
so that they, like all the other kids that used

(01:52:05):
to live with them in this place, can move to
a place known as the Big House in Margate, which
is a seaside result in England where life is perpetually
happy for kids, with arcade games and funfaares and treats,
and it's all going to be wonderful if they can
just get there. But there's a very slow, insidious creep
to this narrative which hums along under the surface, and

(01:52:26):
it just gets louder and louder, and you can tell
from the first time it's mentioned that Margate isn't what
they think it is. And I should say that the
cover of this book is brilliant. It's an image from
a promotional brochure for Margate back in the day, and
it's of a joyously happy mother and child having a
wonderful time on the beach. The irony is right there.

(01:52:47):
She's so original, asn't she care?

Speaker 2 (01:52:49):
I mean, it feels to me that it wasn't that
long ago that The Axe Men's Carnival was released, and
yet here is another.

Speaker 12 (01:52:56):
Well, there's been another in between.

Speaker 2 (01:52:57):
She wrote a book, pet, that's right, she did to,
very prolificous and with so many interesting idea and.

Speaker 12 (01:53:05):
The mark of a great writer who can tell such
incredibly different stories and brilliantly written.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
Yeah, yeah, really, gosh, okay, really looking forward to that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:13):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:53:14):
Tell me about The Good Mistress by Anne Tiernan.

Speaker 15 (01:53:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:53:17):
Anne, I believe as an irishwoman living here in New Zealand,
but this book is set almost exclusively in Ireland, and
it's the story of three women who knew each other
back in the day when they were teenagers, Juliet May
and Erica. Juliet has traveled from her home in Auckland
back to Ireland for the funeral of the guy who
was her closest teenage friend and then he became her lover.

(01:53:38):
His name's Rory and he was married to Erica, who's
now the grieving widow. Juliet and Mave back in the
day used to be really close, but Juliet's performance at
Mave's wedding many years ago put paid to that, and
when they meet up again now in the modern day,
they decide they'll try and put all that behind them
and see if they can pick up where they left off.
And I have to say that the interplay between these

(01:54:00):
women can be quite profound in the way that female
friendships can be. Juliet believed for years is that Rory
was the love of her life and one day he'll
leave his wife for her, which is the kind of
thing that you often hear in these arrangements. His wife, Erica,
knew that he was playing around, but she didn't know
who with. And one night after his funeral, after drinking

(01:54:20):
too much, she goes into Rory's laptop and finds an
email from a woman with whom he was clearly intimate,
and she replies to that email, which starts up a correspondence.
And what she doesn't realize is that the woman that
she's emailing is actually just a short walk away in
the same village. So it's quite It's a small town story.

(01:54:42):
It's about betrayal, it's about love, It's about forgiveness and
how you face yourself in the mirror and figure out
how you got to where you are now from that
teenager that you.

Speaker 2 (01:54:51):
Used to be. I love it. Thank you so much, Joe.
In those two books, the last one was The Good
Mistress by Anne Tannan and the first one was The
Book of Guilt by Catherine Chidje.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on my Heart Radio
Power His Talks NB, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
For joining us this morning on Mother's Day. Enjoy the
rest of your day. If you're a mom, I hope
you've been well looked after or at least just remembered. Hey,
next week, I'm really excited. Award winning country star Kaylie
Val is going to be in the studio with us,
and we're also going to be talking to Dominic Howey,
who is an author. He has released a brand new
book called nineteen eighty five. It's really Fabulous. His debut

(01:55:33):
novel was called Iceland. He released that in twenty eighteen.
He's also a poet. He also runs this creative writing
course called Learn to Write Good, and he has taught
hundreds of students around the world how to think. Dyslexic
so he's really trying to help students who have dyslex
herea as well. Really interesting guy, so I'm very excited
that he's going to be with us in the studio

(01:55:55):
as well. Jason Pine is up next with the Weekend Sport.
Thank you so much to Carie for producing the show.
Enjoy the rest of your Sunday. I'll see you next week.

Speaker 28 (01:56:06):
And so from I'm thinking about it every day now.

Speaker 2 (01:56:12):
The only question is win.

Speaker 14 (01:56:14):
Real now, if you wanna call me.

Speaker 28 (01:56:16):
Babe by a Ray, you're calling me coming it crazy,
baby a Ray.

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
If you want to call me baby.

Speaker 1 (01:56:38):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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