Full Show Podcast: 13 October 2024

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breeds us Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning, Welcome to the Sunday Session that I'm Francisca Rudkin,
with you until the day. Good to have you with us.
Right America's Cup kicked off this morning. Emirates Tea, New
Zealand has gone two races up in Barcelona. Selling commentator
Chris Steele joins us shortly with his thoughts on the
first two races. Also on the show's day, I'm joined
by z M radio host and celebrity Treasure Island TV

(00:49):
presenter Bree Thomas. L I love Bree. She's a hope
and she's an awesome woman and much loved by her
Kiwi and Ozzie fans. But behind all the banter in
success as a young woman who battles anxiety, she deals
with ADHD and she's spent years trying to work out
how to fit into the world. It's a Bree tomasel
Open and shares her moving story with me after the
ten o'clock News, and hey, if you're a fan of

(01:11):
The Girl on the Train, then you don't want to
mess my interview with its author Paula Hawkins after eleven
for the talks about her new book It's called The
Blue Hour, and why it's a good thing becoming world
famous later in life, and of course you always ms.
Welcome to text throughout the morning. Ninety two ninety two.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
For Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Tomorrow marks twelve months since the election, which saw the
country take a step to the right with Christopher Luckson's
Coalition coming into power. During the week, I've read numerous
opinion pieces reflecting on politics in New Zealand under both
Hipkins and Luckson's leadership. We know it has taken the
Prime Minister time to grasp the nuances of politics, but
credit where credit's due. He's rip roaring through his to

(01:53):
do list, so it seems odd that therese chat about
how long he will last in the job or who
else should be the leader. That these topics keep popping
up suggests the leadership of both National and Labor isn't
quite hitting the mark. Peter Dunn wrote a piece in
a Newsroom titled why Luxon Won't outstay his Welcome, sharing
his thoughts on why Christopher Luxon is unlikely to be

(02:15):
a long term prime minister. He also points out the
pros and cons of having non career politicians in power.
Dunn wrote the positive aspect of this non careerist approach
his politicians were focused on achieving the policy goals dear
to them and not outstaying their public welcome. But I
went on to say that the counter is that the
value of political experiences in resolving awkward situations is insufficiently appreciated.

(02:40):
Off the back of the mood of the Boardroom survey,
which ranked Luxon sixth in the rankings of Cabinet minister's
KPIs Matthew Houghton, writing in The Heralds suggesting some alternative
leadership names, he wrote that neither Luxin nor Hipkin seem
up to the leadership required, but he was impressed with
the seriousness shown by Nationals Nikola Willis and Labour's Barbara

(03:02):
Edmonds in their portfolios. Looking back on the political it
has been fast and furious. It takes some effort to
keep up with what has been repealed, paused, fast tracked,
or implemented. We've had tax cuts, inflation drop, the return
of roads, changes to the smoke free policy, benefit reform,
public service cuts, the fast Track Approvals bill, law and

(03:23):
order legislation, replacement of the RMA, budget blowouts at Houth
New Zealand, a reset for education, and more. Besides, if
you had to describe the last twelve months, I'd call
it busy. The Coalition has done a good job of
identifying the core issues facing the country, but whether their
approaches to fixing these problems will be successful, only time
will tell. The Taxpayer's Union Curio poll released on Friday

(03:45):
showed support for National and Luxe and dropping. I tend
to take polls with a grain of salt, but it's
another indication New Zealanders aren't entirely convinced of National's leadership.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
The Sunday session, I wonder if.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
That does wrap it up. If you're a center riot
or a write voter, you're probably happy with the handbrake
on spending and the changes being made, but you can
completely convinced of Luxon's vision and leadership. I would be
keen to hear from you. You can text on ninety
two ninety two. Now, a new study release this morning
shows New Zealanders are avoiding the news. We find out why.
It is ten past nine.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca, Rudkin and
Windles for the best selection of great reads these talks.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Envy, thank you for your feedback. Luxlan's doing a stellar job.
Tough ask what they were given safe hands. One text
reads Chris Luckson wants to grow economy and is powering
through achieving his goals. He seems like a nice and
approachable man. So you guys so far seeming pretty happy
with things. I feel free to flip me your thoughts
on ninety two ninety two. As I mentioned before, a

(04:50):
new study release this morning shows New Zealanders are avoiding news.
According to the research, sixty percent of key Wes admit
to avoiding news, which is one of the highest reported
rates in the world. Lead author of the study is
doctor Alex Beattie, and he joins me now, Hi Alex,
by Francesca, were you surprised by the findings? Is it
higher than you expected?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (05:11):
Well, anytime where your country comes out top, I think
you are a little surprised, So yeah, I was to
be honest a little bit.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
What reasons were given for avoiding.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
News, Well, the number one reason why kiwis avoid the
news is because of how the news makes them feel
are depressed, and that's probably because of the number of
events that have been going on in the last few years,
the pandemic, the number of wars, crises, and I think
that's having an accumulative effect. There's also the perceived quality

(05:41):
or lack of quality to the news. So there's a
perception of bias, growing mistrust towards the media, and some
people simply think that the media doesn't really offer any
utility in their day to day lives.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Okay, do we have any pre COVID figures that we
compare these ones too, just out of curiosity.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
Unfortunately not in New Zealand, but they believe so internationally.
And I think the pandemic that is wide, the acknowledge
that it's had an effect on people's sort of appetite
for the news made.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
A bit of a dent in terms of demographic Are
there trends on who was more likely to avoid the news?

Speaker 5 (06:17):
Yes, a little bit. So we asked questions around gender, age,
and political beliefs. And we found that women are more
likely to avoid the news than men, and that's perhaps
because of some sort of outdated but lingering gender norms
around the news is for men and isn't for women.
Of course, we know that's not true these days, but
those norms can sort of linger. And then people with

(06:38):
more center are more right wing sorry beliefs, then left
wing were more likely to distrust the news as well.
Or people whose views go off to the ends of
the spectrum are also more likely to avoid the news,
and that's because their views are less likely to be
represented in the mainstream news.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Maybe women are just busy just throwing that out there.
Talk to me a little bit about the political views.
Tell me a little bit more about the.

Speaker 6 (07:05):
Impact that had well.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
So it's likely that we have increased polarization in society.
People it's hard to talk to each other on the
other side, on the other side of the political spectrum,
people with left wing views are becoming more left wing,
people with right wing views are becoming more right wing.
And what we found is that those people with more
left wing or more right wing than say, center views
are more likely to avoid the news, and that's because

(07:29):
simply their views aren't maybe being represented, their viewpoints, they're
not being seen in the news, so to speak. So
that's a key reason why those audiences are turning away
and going to alternative platforms, YouTube channels where they can
get perspectives that maybe reinforce their views.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
And it's probably a good time to ask, then when
you look at the when we talk about sixty percent
of kiwis admit to avoiding the new avoiding news. What
news are we talking about?

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yes, great points. I mean we tend to be talking
about the mainstream news or traditional news newspapers, online news websites,
t television, the six o'clock news in comparison to say
social media, where more and more audiences again their news.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
So obviously somebody who's in the business of news this
is concerning. Do you think it's concerning?

Speaker 5 (08:19):
Well, yes and no. I think on one level, perhaps
we can turn this into a positive. You know, in
the last couple of decades, we've had an unprecedented amount
of news. There's simply so much that you can consume now,
not just New Zealand media organizations, but international websites or
social media, and so this is perhaps just a natural response,
people are saying, enough, I need to take a break

(08:41):
from this sheer volume of information, and maybe, as Kiwi's
we're quite good at that. You know, think about where
we live. We live in the South Pacific. We're a
small island nation, and maybe we're quite good A's creating
space for ourself taking a break, and we should actually
celebrate that. So in that sense it's maybe less of
a problem. But at the same time we should the
media should look at the results and think, hmm, maybe

(09:02):
we do need to change things slightly and think of
about the ways we cover certain issues that are turning
our audiences away, such as you know, clickbait or lots
of opinions that's coming through in the data as well.
People don't like just opinions. They want more, you know,
fat based reporting as well.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's interesting you mentioned the clickbait because you know, the
media is under intense commercial pressure and that does lead
to things like the clickbait headlines. It's a fine line, there,
isn't it.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
Well.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
The irony here is, you know, the efforts of our
media to retain or attract audiences using clickbait, using you know,
top takes and you know edgy opinions, that's what's also
driving people away. So I really feel for our media
because they're operating in a hyper commercial environment. And is
it fair that we ask us them to compete with
these information giants like Facebook and Google where the audiences

(09:53):
have gone?

Speaker 8 (09:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
I don't think so. So I think something has to change.
But the question is how, And that's the million dollar question.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
What has been seen in other countries alex Are they
seeing similar things?

Speaker 5 (10:05):
Well the in the same thing in other countries with
high rates to news avoidance Bulgaria and Greece up there,
they have different reasons for high breaks of news avoidance.
They've got higher degrees of political instability or lower perceived
press freedom. So there's sort of more easily identifiable issues,
perhaps you could say, whereas in New Zealand we have
a relative stable political system, we have perceived high degree

(10:28):
of press freedom. So it's these other reasons that we
have to think about, such as perhaps where we are
in the world, we're far away from lots of world issues.
But also I think the intense commercial pressure that our
media is under.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Do you think the public sluss sight of how vital
the role of the media is.

Speaker 8 (10:45):
Perhaps.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
I think the pandemic was a fascinating case study of
the fourth estates where the media did a fantastic job
at times holding a very popular government to accounts, and
when the government is popular, the media's role is less popular.
They're doing a thankless task. So I think there was
a slight change there. And then people, you know, when

(11:07):
they tuned into the daily briefings, they got a bit
sick of it. They got a bit of sick of
all the information, and they know rethought their relationship to
the media. So some people decreased their media use. Well
others conversely, may increase it. So I do think it
was a bit of a watershed moment.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, hey, Alex in the findings, did it show anything
that the media could do to win these people back?
Is there any action that could or needs to be taken?

Speaker 5 (11:29):
I wish I would that that that we did it.
I mean, we need to do more research and ask
more people. We need to ask more questions. And I
do think it's worth emphasizing that there are some fantastic
journalists out there in our country that are doing amazing work.
They're rethinking their relationship to the audiences, They're rethinking the format.
Can they make it more appealing to the social media
short form, focusing on more positivity, covering more perspectives. There's

(11:54):
some amazing work out there. It's just really hard in
this really commercial environment.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Alex, really nice to talk to you this morning. Thank
you so much. That was doctor Alex Spetti, who is
the lead author of a new study released this morning
that shows New Zealanders avoiding the news the Sunday session
right the America's Cup is underway and it's been a
cracking start for Team New Zealand. They've won the first
two races over nine to take a two nil lead
over Innios Pritannia in the first to seven series. Same

(12:21):
thing commentator Chris Steele was watching and here's with me now,
Good morning, Chris. How you going really good? Thank you?
Probably because I watched it as a pre record at
six am this morning, not at one am. A battery
issue for anyos. Britannia sort of gifted New Zealand. Team
New Zealand is sort of a simple mission in race
one this morning, didn't they?

Speaker 9 (12:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (12:42):
It was interesting. I mean obviously I think definitely not
the way the Bricks would have wanted to start the
America's Cup. Not being able to sort of get on
the foil in time and the pre start and being
late making enter into the studding box kind of put
them on the back foot, so I'm sure it'll be
usually disappointed with that. But you know, they got the
boat back up and running and they managed to kind

(13:03):
of get away off the start line and reasonable shape,
and I guess give us a little bit of a
tease of what's the comet in terms of where the
two boats stack up and performance, So it wasn't all lost,
but yeah, definitely.

Speaker 8 (13:16):
Not an ideal start.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
What did you make of Team New Zealand and those
two races? They seem very cool come and collected.

Speaker 10 (13:23):
Yeah, they did, which you know you can't expect, although
I think if they were going to be on the
back foot at any point, you'd probably expect it maybe
to be in Race white or two, just because obviously
haven't had as much race practice in the cycle of
the America's Cup compared to any US because you know,

(13:43):
they obviously didn't do the Bluebton Challenge series, so you know,
that was kind of a question market I guess was
hanging out on over their heads. But they were able
to come out of the blocks firing and get two
points on the board, which is a pretty impressive statement.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, no, they don't seem too rusty at all. Do
you know what I really noticed, Chris, was the communication
on well, actually both boats, but especially on you know,
I was listening in particular to Emirates Team New Zealand.
It is very good, isn't it, the communication between the
two helmsmen.

Speaker 10 (14:13):
Yeah, it is, and like you said, it did seem
sort of very calm. I think it's it's becoming a
huge part of this America's Cup cycle, obviously, with all
the teams having two skippers on the boat now versus
in the last one where they were only starting with
just the one. So I mean, you really do have
to be the eyes for the skipper that's driving on

(14:36):
the other side when you're not, so you know, there
is a lot a lot more chat, probably than what
you'd normally sort of hear on a boat like that.
But it's pretty cool, I guess as a spectator to
get insights and hear those conversations and see what they're
talking about and looking at as well. It's yeah, it's
very insightful.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
It could be a little boring if we did it
only two races in that, how do you compare the boats?

Speaker 10 (15:00):
Yeah, look, I think I mean, we've only seen them
in sort of one range of condition there, and I
thought they were they were pretty close in terms of
the performance. It's definitely too early to just sort of
make any any sort of long term calls on whether
or not it's going to stay that sort of way
with the trends, but I think, yeah, early on, I mean,

(15:22):
the key he has kind of got the jump in
both of those starts, which you know, was was pretty
impressive to see. But you know, those conditions, it's it's
so hard for the boat behind to pass. You know,
it's one thing to catch up, but the closer you
get to the boat in front, and the harder it
does actually get past them because you start getting your wind,

(15:43):
starts get affected a lot more.

Speaker 9 (15:44):
So.

Speaker 10 (15:45):
I think that if the shoe was to be able
to foot and the bricks were able to come off
the start line in front, I think, you know, it
would have been a pretty hard job for the keepers
get past. They might have been slightly faster upwind Jam
Zealand from what I could see, but you know, the
Brits have been pretty strong sort of downwind against all teams,
and I think there was definitely a couple of little
signs of that as well. So yeah, too to say

(16:06):
right now, but yeah, you had to live in one
way or the other. You probably stay slight advantage to
the Kiwis. But like I said, if if they don't
get off the start line in good shape, I think
it will still be very hard for them.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
To get past Chris volatile conditions today. Should we expect
the winds to be as fickle as this for the
rest of the series, do you think?

Speaker 10 (16:26):
I mean, it's a hard one to sort of put
your finger on, especially with the schedule because obviously they're
going to be sailing today and then they got a
couple of days off following that, so you know, Barcelona's
typically this time the year starts to get lighter and
lighter with the winds, and saying that the Challenge series
was supposed to be similar conditions, and there was quite

(16:46):
a bit of breeze, but when I was over there,
the boats were, you know, there's braces called off because
it was too windy. So I think it's definitely a
little bit of a mixed bag. But yeah, the light,
fickle conditions with the kind of confusency state, and yeah,
makes makes it very difficult to sail these boats, and
I think they Canians will certainly play a big part

(17:07):
in it. And if you start seeing racing it's a
little bit lighter than what we saw overnight, then you
know staying on the foil will be will be a
challenge as well. So when you start getting to those
conditions and no leads safe enough, one mistake and you
know you'll struggle to get back up on the foil
for the rest of the race. So you know, that's
actually quite exciting in my opinion to watch because you

(17:31):
know that every minuever is super important and one sort
of pup will cross your across your race went straight away.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Chris, as you mentioned, you've been in Barcelona. Is it
a great location.

Speaker 10 (17:42):
It's I mean, it's a pretty cool city in general.
I think you know that it was a good vibe
on the ground when I was there, And saying that
the conditions are proving a little bit challenging, you know,
it's a little bit frustrating when you when you're waking
up at one o'clock in the morning to turn the
TV on and then.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yeah, and then the.

Speaker 10 (18:02):
First thing is there is delay, and it's kind of
that's kind of been the theme for all these races.
So you know, I don't know if they need to
push the start time back an hour or something just
to stop people tuning in and having to sit there
and wait, because I think people get bored of it
really quickly, especially when you don't know what time they're
actually going to get home. But you know, you could
see from the forecast last night that there was likely

(18:24):
going to be a delayed for sort of half an
hour forty five minutes, and it was bang on. So yeah,
I mean as a venue as a whole, I think
it is. It's a very tricky sailing venue and it's
very different conditions too. You know, it's very unique in
that regard. So I think we've seen that in the
race is so fast, some teams have really struggled to
come to grips with the waves stayed and trying to

(18:47):
keep the boats folling stably and stably as fast as well.
So yeah, I mean it's good to watch.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
I think yeah, it should should lend to some exciting races. Chris,
thanks so much for your thoughts this morning. That was
sailing commentator Chris Steele. Politics is up next and don't
forget that. Breetomaselle joins me after ten with some behind
the scenes goss on shooting celebrity Treasure Island. It's twenty
eight past nine.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on news Talks
at b.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
The British and Irish Film Festival is back for its
second edition, bringing the best of the twenty twenty four
Toronto Film Festival lineup to New Zealand cinemas as well
as selected can Film Festival favorites from Kettketty to duneed In.
The festival screen in thirty cinemas across twenty cities and
towns from October twenty third to November the thirteenth, with

(19:39):
five new locations, which makes this the biggest British and
Irish film festival to date. Opening the festival direct from
the Tiff and Tell You Ride film festivals, Cordin's Conclave,
starring Ralph Findes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow and Isabelle Rossalini.
Audience has been wowed by the film and has now

(20:00):
been widely discussed as a potential Oscar winner Ralph Finds
is also at his charismatic best in the Return. He
starts alongside fantastic Juliet Binoche in their first on screen
pairing since The English Patient in twenty eight years. So
to be sure to secure opening night tickets to Conclave
before they sell out. Tickets are on sale now through
the British Film Festival dot co dot NZ or through

(20:21):
participating cinemas.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Whig Girls
for the best selection of great breaths, news talk seedy.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
On the media, most of us rely on the late
evening news are text reads. It's all been taken away now.
We don't get home in time for the six pm news.
We want the late evening news back. Thank you, Jane
Anne Marie texted to say, hi, Franchesca, the media needs
to focus on more positivity. I'll tell you what. That's
what we're try and do here on the Sunday Session. Marres,
you're in the right place. Joining me now to talk

(20:57):
politics is New Zealand Hero political reporter Adam Pears live
from Hamilton.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
How are you Adam, I'm good.

Speaker 11 (21:04):
I'll try and make this, make this quite positive for
your listeners.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Boy, I am sure that Whinston Peters is feeling very
positive at the New Zealand First Annual Conference.

Speaker 11 (21:18):
Yes, he certainly is, and as his members, I mean,
I think it's pretty obvious you'd expect a lot of
the party members to be quite excited to come together
after obviously getting into getting back into Parliament and then
obviously to government and at the cabinet table. So a
number of the people here are excited. They're looking forward
that we've had some pretty lively policy proposal sessions of

(21:40):
called remit discussions where they're crafting the party's future policies.
We have some great speeches as well, Shane Jones delivering
his delivering a speech in his usual emphatic style talking
about energy, which is a big space that the party's
moving into at the moment. And it's all building up
to Winston Peter's closing address or leader's address later on

(22:01):
this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
And are you anticipating any major policy announcement in this address.

Speaker 11 (22:08):
Yeah, Well that's the interesting thing. I mean when we
go to New Zealand First Party events, obviously in the
past pre twenty twenty three when they were out of parliament,
you know they're proposing party policy, but now as part
of the coalition coalition government, with coalition agreements that already
state their policies. It's an interesting kind of dynamic where, yes,

(22:28):
we do have Whenston Peter's looking to propose a policy,
it's it's supposedly relating to overseas investment, looking to attract
or incentivize foreign entities to come and invest in New
Zealand laws to grow the economy. But how that works
with the coalition agreement, I'm not quite sure. You know,
you've already agreed your policy proposals going forward, so how

(22:50):
this works in with National and act as yet to
be seen. So interesting times ahead.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Tell me a little bit about the Green Party and
where they are at with this invoking the Walker jumping legislation.

Speaker 11 (23:03):
Yes, well, it looks like we may finally be able
to get a resolution out of this. So your listeners
will probably know very well by now that this Darling
Tana situation started in March when we first heard those
reports of alleged migrant exploitation involved in her husband's business,
and now we finally have the special meeting that the

(23:27):
party delegates will be coming together in the coming days
talking about or voting on whether they will look to
rock a jump Darling Tanner out of the party. Obviously
something that the party has been opposed to in the past,
which is why co leaders Chloe Swarbrick and Madama Davidson
pushed us out to their members. Obviously very very democratic

(23:48):
party themselves, but it's something that's taken a long time.
It's taken months since those first allegations, and we had
a scheduled meeting which was put off because Darling Tanner
appealed it through the courts and that failed. So we
finally got to this meeting and I can imagine if
you're the Greens, you're hoping you can put this all
behind you and actually get on withholding the government to Yes.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Sure, would Adam enjoy the rest of your afternoon that
you at the New Zealand First Conference and your general meeting.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
YEA.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Adam will let you know too, if there is anything
specific that comes out of that speech this afternoon, you'll
be able to hear that throughout the news here on
news Talks. He'd be up next New Zealand Herald journalist
David Fisher talks us through the crazy, wild story about
a catfisher at the heart of his new podcast called
Chasing Ghosts the Puppeteer. It is twenty three to ten.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Sunday with Style The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Windles.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
For the best selection of Greg Reeds news talksby Good.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Dave, You with Us it is twenty one to ten now.
In twenty eleven, New Zealand Herald journalist David Fisher he
investigated and reported on what he discovered as the wildest
catfishing tale he's ever encountered. It centers around online predator
Natalie Burgess, who was jailed for her crimes back in
twenty thirteen. David thought the story had ended then that

(25:07):
an email two years later has prompted him to revisit
the case in a new season of The Herald's true
crime podcast, Chasing Ghosts the Puppeteers. David Fisher is with
me now. Good morning, David, Good morning, now, So why
have you revisited your investigation from twenty eleven?

Speaker 4 (25:27):
About two years ago, I got an email from a
New Zealand woman called Crystal Jenna who's living in surface paradise,
And Crystal was at the end of her teav because
she had for years and years found her profile, photographs
from social media and other content from social media had
been used by somebody else who turned out to be

(25:50):
Natali advergers to create false characters. And it was the
same sort of activity that Natalia had been up to
back in twenty eleven when I first reported on it,
and I'd actually thought that she would have moved on
from this, but no, she got out of prison in
twenty sixteen and got straight back into well cat fishing

(26:14):
on a quite extraordinary scale.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Was it your immediate thought that this was Natalia? Rated again.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
At the point that I came into it, when Crystalline
emailed me, Crystal was very definite that it was Natalia,
And as generous, we have to check, we have to
verify everything that we do, And so while I considered
it was a possibility, I kept it open mind until

(26:46):
I gathered the evidence, and the evidence was well unequivocal
ready it was most definitely Natalia. Burgess at it again.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Tell us about just how deep her crimes have gone.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Well, the conviction she had in twenty thirteen that stemmed
from a three or four year period of rather intense catfishing,
where she had used the social media photographs of a
handful of young women to create quite a family tree.

(27:25):
And the extent of this is quite bizarre, and I
think this is what makes it somewhat different from a
lot of cat fishing cases. I found as I investigated
a family tree of about twenty different individuals, much of
them false characters that Natalia had created, all of which

(27:47):
she was controlling as a very engaging, very social what
appeared to be a pack of teenage girls online, when
in fact Natalia was at that stage easily ten years
older and now it was about forty. With those false characters,

(28:09):
she created a sense of community. The characters would talk
to each other online and interact with each other online,
so that when the people that she was looking to
catfish encountered them, they didn't realize it was just one person.
They thought it was a really social pack of attractive

(28:30):
teenage girls who were looking for company online. And as
those relationships developed, they became very deep and they formed
very strong boldins online, so much so that when it
moved into the next phase of what Natalie would do,

(28:52):
what she has told me she called city little mind games.
She would introduce moments of drama that really had an
effect on the people that she was interacting with. Would
be family developments, which would be exciting, and then there
would be things that would help happen in her life

(29:15):
that things that may not have happened in her real life,
but things that were happening to her characters that were
rather more shocking. She would kill her characters off. For example,
one of those false characters back around twenty eleven was
a girl called Laura Jane West who died in a

(29:37):
car crash apparently, but there was no Laura Jane West
and there was no car crash.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
So, David, was she just messing with people? Or did
she to get money off people? How far did it go?

Speaker 4 (29:49):
The better for that she seems to get from it
is forming the relationships with individuals and then as they
go through this roller coaster of emotions, depending on the scenario,
she introduces to the relationship some sort of affirmation that
the relationship is important to them because they're suffering as

(30:11):
she suffers. There's very little sign of any money changing hands.
It's not a fraud, scam or even a romance scam
in the way that we would usually interpret these things.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Horrible manipulation. I mean, what impact did this have on
her victims?

Speaker 4 (30:28):
The impact was horrendous, But I've spoken to people who
years and years down the track are still suffering incredibly.
I interviewed a mum whose son took his life back
at the end of twenty ten, and that woman, Raymond Ford,

(30:51):
blames the target for her son Piece's death, which I
should gave it by saying that in my experience in
covering such things, almost always more than one reason for
somebody self harming to that degree. But he wasn't the
only young man to do that.

Speaker 12 (31:08):
There was.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
When the case unfolded in court in twenty thirteen, the
judge made reference to another teenager, a boy who's sixteen,
who the judge had said would have taken his life
if not for an intervention by his parents. That impact,
it is extraordinary, and that impact rolls on to Crystal

(31:31):
Jenny that the person who Natalia has used the image
of for what Crystal says is about ten years and
Crystal's business has been hugely impacted. She runs a fashion
boutique on the Gold Coast. When she has a new

(31:52):
product line coming out. She really struggles to advertise that
on social media because with a day or two, all
the new images of her of her friends group, even
if French kids, will be taken and incorporated into this
extraordinary masquerade that Nentaria is operated.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
David, is it strange to be talking about this case
again after so long?

Speaker 4 (32:15):
It is strange. It's as a journalist you cover so
many different types of cases as the years roll by,
and more often than not, you think they're done. When
they're done, you know, seriously runs out of steam and
people get on with their lives and go and do
different things. So when I first heard from Crystal, my

(32:40):
immediate impression was, oh, yes, I remember that I've written
that story before. But as I got into it, I'd
realized that there was a lot of a story that
I hadn't told back in twenty eleven. Coming at it
from a distant, different perspective, perhaps with the benefit of

(33:02):
a little bit of time too, gave an ability to
put it different lens on things, and realized that it's
so much more going on than anybody had previous realized
previously realized.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Oh, David, look, thanks so much for talking us through
that you if you enjoy your true crime podcast. The
first episodes of Chasing Ghosts the Puppeteer are available now
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. It's twelve
to ten.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking.

Speaker 13 (33:30):
Breakfast current account numbers remind us it's all still a mess.
The deficit blew out to twelve point nine billion. Former
Finance Minister Stephen Joyce's wh us the two points before that,
Nicholas shackled herself whethers she asked for trouble or that.
Given it's already spent and we're not even into next year.

Speaker 8 (33:43):
It's going to be very tough. And I heard the
fee to you guys saying that's terrible. You know, we
shouldn't have cut the theories. I shouldn't pretty calculated and
even hospital.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
But there's a reason for that.

Speaker 8 (33:52):
Because you've doubled debt in six years and now you're
running a deficit of twelve point nine billion. The answer
to his question is, well, you should have got your
mate Grant to be under much greater control three or
four years ago, and maybe we wouldn't be having to
make these sorts of Decisions.

Speaker 13 (34:06):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
the Rain Driver of the LAM News talk z EDB.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Keep it Simple, It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads
used talk sedby.

Speaker 12 (34:22):
Yes, seven.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Day you're with the Sunday Session. Good to have you
with us. Thanks for your feedback. I started the hour
by just having a little bit of a reflection on
a year of our new government, and I was saying,
it's been incredibly busy. It's almost impossible to keep up
with all the things that have been happening. I think
the government's done a very good job of identifying the
issues facing the country and trying to turn them around.

(34:51):
I was asking you, I just made a point that
I'd noticed though in the last few in the last
week or so, a lot of articles or commentators talking
about lux and whether they see him, you know, staying
in politics for long, or being a natural leader or
who should be leading now and labor and I was
just sort of intrigued that that was on people's minds.
So I sort of asked you, guys, if you text

(35:12):
here Francesca. Most of the media are not giving Lucks
an affair. Go Why hasn't labor been asked, why they're
multi billion dollar? Why there hasn't Why hasn't Labor been
asked why their multi billion dollar restructuring of the house
sector has been a gigantic failure. Chris Luxon is a
very good leader for the country. We need the economy
to strengthen to make New Zealand s ofviye. We have

(35:33):
too much negativity. A few more here. Luxon is trying
to turn New Zealand around after the labor has torn
down our riches. He's a forward thinker, a gentleman, persistent,
determined and resourceful. He's creating a shift for a positive
and improvement, but has much negativity to fight against. The
media do not present him with the truth. They focus
on his glowing personal achievements as something to tear down.

(35:55):
The medium missed the presentation of what he is really
doing to help New Zealand out of a hole. Look,
I know where you're coming from. I'm not interested myself
personally his personal achievements or his wealth and things like that.
And I too get a little bit frustrated when we
get fixated on that. That is not what we should
be getting fixated on. So thank you very much for
your text and just also on the medium. Hi Frand

(36:18):
this is from Hayden High, Francisca. I still follow a
lot of media and listen to a lot of radio
with yourselves and a couple of other stations podcasts. However,
I no longer watched the one news. I wanted the news,
not the journalist's opinion. Also, I can't stand the pigeon English.
I don't know what they're saying. Thank you hate him?
If you are thinking to yourself, okay, darlight saving has
kicked in. I've got you know. The days are longer,

(36:41):
spring is coming, the summer, holidays are coming. I need
to get into some good habits again. Maybe your habits
have slipped a little bit over winter. Then go and
have and listen to our latest podcast from the Little Things,
the podcast I do with my friend Louise Air. Our
Sunday session Natural Path. Aaron O'Hara, who's a very talented woman.
She used to be a Trisley represented us. She's come

(37:03):
on board and she's talking to us. She's giving us
really practical tips about how to set up one, identify
the bad habits you've got into to create new habits,
how to stay motivated, removing obstacles to make you getting
these habits into place really easy. And she's got some
great other little tips for habits like habit stacking and things.
So if you're thinking yourself, I really need to get

(37:24):
my exercise back on track, or I just want to
lose a little bit of wait for summer, or I
really want to be a bit more focused on this,
or put this back in play. Not expecting you to
change the world and tune your life upside down. Erin
is very practical when it comes to putting good habits
in place. But go and have a listen to the podcast.
I think it'll give you some good motivation for whatever
you want to achieve in the next few months. It

(37:47):
is six to ten newstalks edb keep it Simple.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgater and Wiggles
for the best selection of the Grave Reads News talks
eNB Up.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Next, the fabulous Bree Thomas l joins us to talk
about coming out to her parents, finding her place in
the radio industry and reveals the metic childhood event that
changed her life. Bree Thomas l is with us next
and to finish the hour, we have some new music
from the Veils. This is the latter back shortly Jem.

Speaker 14 (38:18):
High Dubness Mooth.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
For the kid.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
We meant to the lads anywhere instead.

Speaker 15 (38:37):
Across the water.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
The river of the day, be meant to the lad.

Speaker 8 (38:47):
I can a fistanly.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Out across the water.

Speaker 12 (38:54):
The valley of.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Which you have, the lad, which you had the lad?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I'll bet you that.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads used talks.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Good to have you with us. This is a Sunday Session.
I'm Francisca Rudkin with you until the day. It is
seven past ten. Celebrity Treasure Ireland and z M Drive
host Brie Thomas Alla is known to us all for
her larger than life personality, but behind the famous Vanda
and Witt is a woman who has struggled with anxiety,
with questioning herself and dealing with the aftermat of a

(40:01):
traumatic attack as a child. For the first time, Brie
has shared her story. Her book was on a unapologetically
me and Brie has come upstairs to the z BE studio.
Good morning, thank you for your time, Bri.

Speaker 6 (40:14):
Morning, Thank you so much for having me. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Good to have you weather us. So how much fun
is it writing about yourself?

Speaker 16 (40:21):
Not fun at all, to be honest. It was my
worst nightmare all rolled into one. But at the end
of it all, I think it was really cathartic. It
was challenging, for sure, I think that's what i'd say
at the top, but I got so much out of
it in the end.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Why did yeah, So why did you decide to go
here with it? Because I know that when you first asked,
you were like, I don't think so, this isn't for me?

Speaker 17 (40:44):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And then what changed your mind?

Speaker 16 (40:46):
I think it was the thought of that maybe my
stories or lived experience could help someone, you know, help
some people with their journey or maybe struggles they're going through.
And I thought, if I could help even just one person,
then I've done my job.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
And you've also I've got a great sense of humor,
and you write really well. Oh, thank you, congratulations on
the book. So what was it like being breed growing up?

Speaker 6 (41:14):
It was great. I had a fantastic childhood.

Speaker 16 (41:17):
Like I grew up in the country, didn't wear shoes
till I was six years old, you know, on.

Speaker 6 (41:22):
An apple farm, animals, all kinds of things.

Speaker 16 (41:26):
And then, you know, something happened to me when I
was nine years old where me, my mum, and my
nan got held up in a home invasion, and that
kind of it changed a lot of things for me
and put my life on a bit of a different trajectory.
But looking back on it now, like the family that

(41:47):
I have, I have the most amazing family, And I
mean there was one blip in such an amazing childhood,
you know.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
And it was it was traumatic, wasn't it. I mean, yeah,
describe it in the book and I can understand how
that would stay with you. So what impact did it
have on you as a nine year ye rolled?

Speaker 16 (42:07):
You know, I don't think I really realized obviously at
the time, because I was nine, But even through writing
this book, and I feel like there's a lot of
things I already knew, But throughout the process of writing
this book, I think I've realized how much that traumatic
event has stayed with me throughout my entire life, you know,

(42:28):
in the form of anxiety, which I have suffered with
since that day, sometimes debilitating, sometimes not present at all.

Speaker 6 (42:38):
But yeah, it's had lasting effects.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
On me mentally for sure, because you went from, as
you say, the safe, care free childhood. Yeah, suddenly realizing
actually bad things can happen.

Speaker 6 (42:49):
You're exactly just expected, You're so spot on.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
That's a horrible thing for a kid to realize.

Speaker 16 (42:55):
It's a looking back on it now, I get angry,
and I feel like my mum and my nan were
angry as well, because I feel like a part of
my childhood got stolen from me. You know, it got
take from me, and that does make me angry thinking
back on it now. But you know, it's just one
of those pieces of me that I've learned to live

(43:17):
with and love about myself as well and kind of
manage throughout my life.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
What was high school like for you?

Speaker 6 (43:25):
High school? High school is such a weird one, isn't it.

Speaker 16 (43:28):
I feel like there was amazing parts of high school,
but I was the same as most people. I was awkward,
trying to figure out who I was, kind of you know,
stumbling my way through and figuring it out.

Speaker 6 (43:42):
But I played so much sport.

Speaker 16 (43:43):
That's what I really loved in high school, and I
feel like they're some of my best memories from high school.

Speaker 6 (43:49):
But I was awkward.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
But high schools is zoos, right, They're all zoos. Everyone
is just fighting to survive, right, And I think the
sooner we are actually honest with kids out there and go, yeah, sorry,
it's tough. That are zoos. Just you've got to find
a way to survive. The more we're honest with them
about it, the bit it is. Otherwise we'll just pretend
to Oh, no, that the these days of your life
and love it and you're gonna love it, and you're

(44:11):
sitting there holding on for dear life trying to get through.

Speaker 16 (44:13):
I think that's such a great way to put it.
You know, you put into this situation with this group
of people and you're like be friends with them and
get along with everyone, and you know that's just not
real life. When you leave high school, you're kind of like, oh,
I can choose. You know who my friends are and
where I want to be.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
We have things in common, you have the same point
of views. How awesome is that?

Speaker 6 (44:37):
It's great?

Speaker 13 (44:37):
So when did you.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Feel like you started to fit in somewhere?

Speaker 6 (44:41):
Yeah, that's such a good question.

Speaker 16 (44:43):
I think it took me a long time, Like I
feel like I was figuring things out for many, many years.
But as soon as I walked into my first radio job,
I was like, here we go. I've found my people.
Like these people are all just as weird and a
bit batshit as me. You know, these are my people.

(45:04):
And I truly felt like I'd found my play. And
I feel like a lot of people will maybe never
get that.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Moment, but that was the moment for me. And I
loved reading about the pranks that you used to do
at high school because that that's the first clue that
you go, this woman has made for radio, right, And
they were just funny. They were harmless, they were kind,
you know, like you're just laughing along. They were very
very good, though.

Speaker 6 (45:27):
You wouldn't believe.

Speaker 16 (45:28):
I posted about the book a couple of weeks ago,
and my headboarding mistress comments on it.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Yeah, but you do name people. I mean, you talk
quite honest. I did, go Wolbrees being brave. She's naming
and sort of semi shaming here. It's exciting I.

Speaker 16 (45:43):
Do because I feel like it was important and they're
all a big part of the story, you know, but
she just came out of nowhere. I haven't talked to
her since I was at boarding school. And she comments,
she goes, can't wait to read it.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
I well remember you fondly. Now, yeah, totally until they
read this, I hang on a minute that she wasn't
absolute nightmare. Every queer person has their own story. But
when did you work out that you were queer?

Speaker 16 (46:08):
It's I feel like it was always something that felt
really natural to me, Like it wasn't ever a moment of, oh,
this is what I am, you know, it was kind
of like a gradual thing, like as soon as I
left high school, and like we were talking about before,
when you're kind of put into the real world and
you're out there talking to different people from different walks

(46:30):
of life. Because I grew up in a really country town,
I didn't even know what a gay person was till
I was, you know, into my teens. So I think
once I was kind of in that real world, it
all kind.

Speaker 6 (46:42):
Of started making sense to me.

Speaker 16 (46:44):
And it took me a long time over the next
decade to figure everything out about myself, but it was
probably around when I left high school.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
You told you, mum when you were twenty one y,
you asked her to keep it a secret, and that
is something that you regret. Why is that.

Speaker 16 (47:00):
I think it's the biggest regret I have in life,
for sure, And I think, looking on it now, is
because I asked her to keep it a secret from
my dad, who is a staunch Italian Catholic man.

Speaker 6 (47:15):
And I didn't know how he would take it.

Speaker 16 (47:16):
I didn't know if it would change the way he
felt about me and thought about me, And it terrified
me to disappoint him and to you know, change his
love for me. But I think looking back on it now,
it breed shame. That secret bred so much shame into
my life where it went on and on and on,

(47:37):
and if I could go back, I would change it now.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Your mom gives us a lot of laughs just day
to day, but also in the book. But your dad
actually made me cry. He did, and I am talking
about Christmas twenty nineteen.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
I know the exact time you're talking about. I'll get
emotional now. I read and I cried.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Yeah, it was beautiful.

Speaker 16 (47:58):
It was one of the most amazing moments in my
whole life. And it was so simple, you know, and
it seems so easy.

Speaker 6 (48:07):
And he pulled me out.

Speaker 16 (48:08):
Into the corridor and said the words that I'd wanted
to hear from him for a decade.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
I love you.

Speaker 6 (48:15):
This doesn't change anything for me. I'm so proud of you.
And you know, I feel like all of us are
just trying to make our parents proud, you know, and
we just.

Speaker 16 (48:25):
Want them to love us. And I don't think he ever,
he never didn't love me. I think he was working
through the years of you know, religious beliefs that he
has been taught his entire life, and he was working
through how he felt about it and all the rest
of it.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
But I'm so so grateful for that moment. Yeah, No,
it was really really special. Do you want people what
do you want people to take from your journey, especially
young people.

Speaker 16 (48:54):
Yeah, that's the right question to ask, I think, Francesca,
because I the whole point of the book is it's
for the people who haven't found that courage yet to
live authentically as themselves, whatever that may be, and that
can be, that can look like anything, you know, Because

(49:14):
I think if once you've read the book in the end,
once I started doing that, everything else fell into place.
All this weight was lifted off my shoulders and I
was truly able to be happy when I was just
being me.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
And you know, after that, things take off. I mean
radio career has taken.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Off, hasn't.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yes, it's going pretty well. Yeah, it's doing Okay. You
decided to come to New Zealand. Are you happy that
you made that decision?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Now?

Speaker 6 (49:48):
Best decision I've ever made? Like best decision?

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Is it true though, that New Zealanders don't really like
a strangers like you were quite taken back when you
came here. I thought it was like what you described,
Oh we're kind of cousins at the end of the day,
we love each other.

Speaker 6 (49:59):
But yes, it actually there is a better angst there,
a little bit like not with everyone.

Speaker 16 (50:04):
I think it's a small percentage. But I was quite
like taken aback when I'd go out and I'd meet
people and they'd be like, oh, you're that bloody Australian,
like get out of here kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
And it took a while when I think I won
people over. Hopefully, Oh I think if absthey won people over.
What do you love about radio? You have to give
a lot of yourself, But do you get it not back?

Speaker 6 (50:27):
I think yeah, I mean you would know you do
this all the time. The best thing is connecting with people.

Speaker 16 (50:34):
You know, we're not curing cancer or doing amazing work
like my partner, who's a nurse does, but we have
this opportunity to connect with people.

Speaker 6 (50:46):
And sometimes that might be over you know, fun and
funny entertainment, but.

Speaker 16 (50:50):
There's other moments throughout my career where I've shared really personal,
deep things and you have that connection with people, and
that's the reason I do this job is to hopefully
change someone's day, even if it's for five minutes.

Speaker 6 (51:05):
You know, Like I think that's such a privilege to
be able to do that every day.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Not only do you have a top radio show, but
you're now on Prime TV, which is really exciting.

Speaker 6 (51:15):
How good's that?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
I mean, it looks like you have a blast hosting
celebrity Tature Island.

Speaker 16 (51:20):
I absolutely do. I never thought I would end up
on TV. It was never a goal of mine. I
think probably because I never saw and I talk about
it in the book, I never saw people like me
on TV who are a little bit rough around the edges.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
I used to be on TV. Brew they'll probably surprise you, yeah,
but no, but way before your time, I didn't have
the right hair color either or the right sort of
facial hair.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
Yeah, so I hear and look at you now, you
know your hair color is stunning.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Although I would say the one thing that did take
me back was you talk about they send you up
to Fiji, I think for the first series and you
get there into that humidity and then they say to you, oh,
you're doing your own hair and makeup.

Speaker 18 (51:53):
Oh it lift.

Speaker 6 (51:54):
Please if anyone's listening, don't watch season one. It's not
a good time for me.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I tell you. If they got that cheap, these days,
they get you. They get your hair and make up.

Speaker 12 (52:04):
These days.

Speaker 16 (52:05):
After they saw beyond season one, they said, I think
we need to splurge on getting bre hair and makeup.
So I've had amazing hair and makeup from season two,
I tell you now.

Speaker 6 (52:15):
But yeah, it's just it's such an.

Speaker 16 (52:16):
Amazing show and it's such a rare opportunity. Like every
time I'm there, I'm like, wow, Like this is so cool.
I grew up watching shows like this, and now I'm
here and I get to be a part of it,
and I pinch myself every time.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
You're a natural at both the radio and the TV.
But in the book, you talk a lot about self
doubt and anxiety, which I think is really good. Not
that you have both of those things, but then it's
really good to know that sometimes that people look like
they have it all together sometimes don't. And that's okay,
oh mate, fake it to make whatever you want. You know,
you can still follow your dreams and things like that.

Speaker 16 (52:52):
Oh absolutely, I think underneath it all, I doubt myself constantly,
you know. And imposter syndrome is I think something we
all deal with in the industry, some more than others.
But yeah, it's it's a really hard thing. I feel
like I'm constantly second guessing myself. But then after six seasons,

(53:15):
I have these things where I'm like, you've been.

Speaker 6 (53:18):
Doing this for six seasons, You've got this, you know.

Speaker 16 (53:21):
So I have both voices in my head kind of
going at once, and most of the time the positive
voice wins.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Thank God, Now that the heir and makeup has been
taken care of, it's one lit thing to worry about.
That show, Oh, Bree, thanks so much for coming in. Well, okay,
so that's the radio show, that's the TV show, and
now the book tacked off the list. The what next?

Speaker 6 (53:42):
Maybe maybe I'll host my own comedy show.

Speaker 14 (53:45):
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Do you do stand up comedy?

Speaker 6 (53:47):
I've done a little bit.

Speaker 16 (53:48):
Wasn't good, but you know, terrifying as I had such
a massive appreciation, Like I couldn't do it. You don't
like it's such an art form, Like it's incredibly difficult
because I mean, the for the radio, we sit here
and we talk behind the mike. We don't get to
see people's reactions, so we're like, they're laughing, for sure,
they're having a good time. In stand up comedy, they're

(54:11):
right in front of you, and if it's silence, it
is deafening.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Yeah, no, a cideer. The fact that I'm not a comedian.
That the second thing is just standing in front of
the group of you know, standing around in front of
people and expecting them to react in a certain way
and they're not.

Speaker 6 (54:24):
Just been mortified. It's so mortifying. Do you find public
speaking quite difficult?

Speaker 3 (54:30):
A camera and a microphone's absolutely fine. Put me in
a room with actual people.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
Isn't that funny? Because people in the corner of the
back me too. Isn't that funny? People always say to me,
They're like, but you're on radio, you're talking to thousands
of people and I'm like so different.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
We love you all from Afar, very from Afar. Yes,
it's been a delight. Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (54:49):
It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
That was CTI and ZIDB Drive host brief Tamasel her
new book, Unapologically Meet zid Im. Sorry if you put
a zid in it, I'm just gonna say, ZIDB will
take her. She's fabulous. Her new book and Unapologetically Meet
is a stores tomorrow and I forget the best selling
crime author Paula Hawkins is with me after eleven twenty
two past ten.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of Great Reads US talks.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
That'd be when you're looking for a good book to read.
Wickles knows that the range of choice can be overwhelming.
It's important that you find the one that's right for
you or for the person to whom you might be
gifting it. And that's where the power of recommendation comes in.
That's why Wickles offers the Top one hundred, the Kids
Top fifty, and Jones picks the Top one hundred and

(55:43):
Kids Top fifty have been voted for by the readers
of New Zealand. So thousands of people have loved them
enough to vote for them. Chances are you'll love them too.
Jones Pick is a selection of books by the Wickles
head book buyer. Their titles She's read and loved, and
they come with Jones's highest recommendation with the Top one hundred, Kids,
Top fifty, Jones Picks and Games, Puzzles, toys, gorgeous stationary

(56:04):
and more. There really is something for everyone at wit calls.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Keep it Simple. It's Sunday, the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Session with Francesca Rudkin ands for the best selection of
Gregs news talk zed be and.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Joining me now we have Chris Schultz talking entertainment. Good
to have you with us, Thank you, thank you for
stepping in. I have to start with this because I'm
really keen to hear your thoughts on this. A new
film has been released, I think quite quietly here in
New Zealand. I've seen quite a lot of press and
articles about it in the US. It's called The Apprentice,

(56:40):
and this is the film that Donald Trump wanted band
tell me about it.

Speaker 15 (56:44):
Yeah, he is not happy about this film being released
so close to the US election. We're just four weeks
out from that hotly contested election. This, I think once
you've seen the film The Apprentice, you'll understand why he
doesn't want it ed. It is very controversial. It's kind
of like a super villain origin story. They go right

(57:07):
back to Donald Trump's beginnings when he was kind of
almost human, like, he was kind of normal. He was
this sort of real estate want to be in New
York who had dreams of opening a hotel. And this
is all about that time what sort of encouraged him
to and the people around him who influenced him to

(57:27):
become what he is today. So that person is Roy Cohen,
the lawyer played here by Jeremy Strong, who is sensational.
There's going to be an Oscar nomination almost certainly for
Jeremy Strong in this role. He is he's taken that
succession look and gaunt, and he's intense. He's kind of terrifying.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Actually, it's interesting because there was an article where I
caught my attention was on the New York Times. And
of course, in nineteen eighty seven, Donald Trump released a
book called the Art of the deal, and the ghost
writer of it did an article after watching the film
just kind of going, Okay, they've making some creative license,

(58:07):
but the tone and kind of the whole vibe of
it is absolutely right.

Speaker 15 (58:12):
Yeah, yeah, that all of that is in the film.
So you see those interviews taking place, and you see
Donald Trump revealing his kind of three really warped rules
for living, like, you know, deny everything and never admit
defeat and all of it, like a win every time,
all this kind of stuff. But that's what's fascinating, you know.
Sebastian stan the guy who plays Donald Trump, gives us

(58:35):
an incredible performance because he he morphs over it. He's
got the walk, he's got the hair. But then over
the course of the film he gets that accent, he
gets the jutted out chin and the personal lips, and
it just slowly felters in and by the end of
the film you kind of see Trump becoming Trump.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
No what I mean, no, I see, you might need
to hunt that one out. But it is screening in
cinemas now. Some music festival kind of period has started.
I've got I've got my name down for early tickets
to Laneway. I don't know if Lameways aimed at people
my age, you know, middle aged woman wandering around. But
I'm pretty excited about the lineup.

Speaker 15 (59:16):
My ten year old daughter is also excited, and I
had to break the news to it and sixteen there
were tears.

Speaker 6 (59:22):
She was very upset.

Speaker 15 (59:23):
Your Charlie XCX's headlining Glameway.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
And that's probably the draw card for me.

Speaker 15 (59:26):
For everyone, that is probably the biggest headliner we have
coming this summer. She has owned this year. I mean
even Karmala Harris has been name dropping her big album,
The Skytowers Lit Up on Thursday Green. She's kind of everywhere,
but she does have a bit of a summer to save.
It's been a little bit of a rough start. We

(59:48):
had listening last weekend that reporters said was marred by
fights and alcoholism, and oh that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
In My eighteen year old wenton. He had a last
but I think he was more focused on the music.
I didn't hear a huge amount about that.

Speaker 15 (01:00:03):
It's definitely the age group listener. But then just yesterday
Eden Festival also had problems that two headliners, Buster Rhymes
and mcgwel drop out in the days leading up to it.
Festival goers, we're calling for refunds. Yeah, a lot of
a lot of a lot of troubling starts there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Yeah, which isn't good because when you buy a ticket,
you have an expectation as to what you're going to get,
and the reality of it now is actually we're buying
an advance, but you don't on the day when you
turn up, not tinly sure what kind of experience you
might have.

Speaker 15 (01:00:31):
It's a complicated festival market at the moment. A lot
of headlining acts just touring themselves. They can make more
money playing their own shows at Spark Arena or in stadiums.
So to get those headliners, you're choosing from a very
small talent pole at the moment. And I guess that's
what you're seeing, like festival organizers really trying to get
these names and that aren't as big as they.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
Used to be.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Looking really quickly. John too Good is one of my
favorite New Zealand musicians and he's got a new solo
album out.

Speaker 15 (01:00:59):
Yeah, well you pictured John too Good, right, and it's
on top of a set of speaker's shirt off, guitar
and hands dive into.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
A live performers in the world. I reckon absolutely Yeah, he's.

Speaker 15 (01:01:09):
Doing a bit of a different tour at the moment.
It's all behind his new album, Last of the Lonely Gods.
It's gentle, it's melodic, it's acoustic, it's really quite lovely.
He thinks it's the best material he's ever written, and
I kind of agree. If you want to know about
his past, you can go. He's done a lot of
interviews about the trauma that this album is about, but
basically had really intense tonight. This and these gentle songs

(01:01:32):
helped heal it. And so that's what you can see.
It's just him, guitar and a stool, and he's doing
like the biggest nationwide tour I think I've ever seen,
nineteen dates. He's playing like far flung places. So if
you live in a small town or a big city,
he's almost certainly coming to you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
No, I'm very looking forward to sort of diving into
that name of the album, Last of the Lonely Goals.

Speaker 15 (01:01:52):
It sounds like a metal album, right like that does
sound like a rocket album, but it's not. It's totally not.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Okay, I love it, Chris, good to have you with us.
We'll talk next week. Up next to me talking elephants
and what you can tell from their wrinkles and whiskers.
That's in Science seven to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks B.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Doctor Michelle Dickinson joins us Now with her Science study
of the week, and I love elephants. I'm very excited
about the study. I shall be looking at them different
from now on.

Speaker 19 (01:02:25):
I love elephants to having kids. I'm at the zoo, yes, and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Have you got the passes?

Speaker 14 (01:02:31):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I think I was there once a week.

Speaker 19 (01:02:33):
Yeah, that we the same.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Yeah, and the elephant.

Speaker 19 (01:02:36):
The elephant is amazing, and you know, you look at
it and you're trying to hang out with the kids
or now parents next time you're at the zoo, going oh,
here's the elephant again every week.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah, and you could actually routine that you know a
little bit more about elephants than you really do. I've
got something for you to look at.

Speaker 19 (01:02:49):
So my word of the week is trunkardness, which is
a new one that I'd learned and I never realized this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
But are you a left or a rating amraji?

Speaker 19 (01:02:58):
Okay, So humans typically either prefer their right hand or
their left hand. More of us prefer our right hand.
Elephants prefer a side of their tu They called it trunkenness,
and they favor whether they go to the left or
the right to pick up objects, so when they curl it,
they don't. They're not all the same, and I never
realized that they would have a handedness equivalent. So that's

(01:03:21):
what this study is all about. It's published in the
Royal Society Open Science. It is a big, meaty paper
and if you've got time, it's beautiful because actually did
a lot of weird stuff on elephant trunks, way more
than I ever imagine. But I'm going to summarize this
for you. Basically, they realize that you can tell just
by looking at it which side your elephant prefers by

(01:03:42):
looking at the wrinkles on its trunk. Now, wrinkles are
never a good word for somebody a woman of my age,
I'm always going, how do I get less wrinkles? But
this is a good thing in elephants because the more
wrinkles you have, the easier it is for you to
stretch over to one side and pick things up, and
it gives you more dexterity. So if you look at
the trunk. You can number one, see that the skin

(01:04:02):
on the curled side develops more wrinkles over time. But
also look at the trunk of an elephant. It's got
little tiny whiskers on there. And what they do is
those whiskers on the side opposite to the way that
they like to curl. It becomes shorter and sparser because
they're constantly contacting with the ground. So when you look
at an elephant trunk on you can see whether it's

(01:04:23):
right or left trunked because we look it. So you
go parents, some thingk for you to do at the zoo.
What was amazing about this study is they analyzed, I
mean so many different elephant trunks from elephants living in
the zoo to deceased elephants where they actually were able
to do sort of post mortem analysis. They did so
many different studies they did.

Speaker 6 (01:04:42):
It was incredible what they did.

Speaker 19 (01:04:44):
And they were measuring the number of trunks and they
were able to figure out that actually trunk wrinkles start
forming in uterol, so they're born with wrinkles. A newborn
baby elephant has eighty seven wrinkles on its trunk and
just like us, aging gracefully. They get more wrinkles as.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
They ate, so it's a sign of that you'll be
able to grease. Does it help them determine the age
of an elephant, Well, I could do.

Speaker 19 (01:05:06):
I didn't think people knew it before, but now the
studies come out this week, they definitely can. And by
the time they're an Adams in the wild, Yeah, they
have one hundred and nine wrinkles on their trunk as
they sort to start to move it more and get
more and more wrinkles.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
And you might go, who cares?

Speaker 19 (01:05:20):
Who cares about whether or not you see wrinkles on
the trunk, But we care because if you think about
soft robotics and how we are using robotics to pick
up soft things, if you think about a trunk, it's amazing.
An elephant can pick up a potato chip out of
a bag or a peel a banana without breaking it.
And so if you think about soft robotics, actually we
can learn a lot from an elephant trunk. And what

(01:05:41):
I think is amazing is elephant trunks act as a
what we call a muscular hydrostep, meaning that they have
no bones in them, so there's no rigidity in the middle,
even though they're really strong because they have get this
inside their trunk, forty six thousand different muscles that work together.
And just to put that in perspective, they have forty

(01:06:01):
six thousand muscles.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Humans have six hundred.

Speaker 19 (01:06:05):
Cry it's bonkers, And that's how their trunk is so
complex can do all of these things. And also the
thing I learned in this paper, I know I'm going
to give you elephant facts this week.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Sorry.

Speaker 19 (01:06:16):
If you think about a trunk, you know how it's
a different color on the underside than it is on
the top side. I would have guessed that the underside
and the top side had different stretchiness because of the color,
But actually it's counterintuitive to what I thought. The skin
is stretchier on the upper surface of the trunk and
thicker and harder and less stretchy on the underside of

(01:06:37):
the trunk. And I don't know why, but I think
because it was a lighter color on the underside, I
had assumed it was less stretcher on the underside. No,
the opposite is true, and that's what helps them to
actually pick up these bananas and do all of these things.
So all the elephant facts are in this beautiful study,
Royal Society, open science, and it's all about good wrinkles.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Thank you so much, Michelle. I caused a bit of
chaos when I was much younger, and when I was
asked by saying to what would I like for Christmas?
I see an elephant, whole one, a real one, a
live one. Thanks in the backyard out to be quite problematic,
Doctor Shelterkinson, Thank you very much. We'll talk next week.

Speaker 14 (01:07:11):
Kids.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
It back to school tomorrow. Who now about those lunchboxes?
Mike vander Elson has an idea for you. It is
twenty tw eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
There's a little bitter way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths used talks.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
It be in our residence. Chief Mike vend Elsen joins us. Now,
good morning, good morning. So you made it through another
school holidays.

Speaker 8 (01:07:40):
Yeah, you're going back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
They're going back. Mine only going back for like two
weeks and then it's study leave, and so it's kind
of like we're all at home. It's like, gee, Mike,
I can't wait. It's going to be great. Yeah, yeah,
good attitude. But of course everyone's then going, Okay, we'll
better find the lunch box for tomorrow. And so I
love the fact that you've gone, okay, what can we

(01:08:02):
put in this lunchbox?

Speaker 6 (01:08:03):
Just live in it up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
And you're talking.

Speaker 18 (01:08:05):
Biscuits absolutely, Like normally you'd go musy bars or something
along those lines, and I've just gone the complete opposite.
I've gone for probably the sweetest, highest sugar rated biscuit
known to man.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Why not just you know, everything in moderation, right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
A Jemmy Dodger, A Jemmy Dodger. A Jemmy Dodger.

Speaker 18 (01:08:29):
You think you'd think it's American when you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Yeah, you would, I think, But it's not as it
no from the UK.

Speaker 18 (01:08:37):
And that actually surprised me because like a Jemmy Dodger,
you like the Dodgers, but no, there's they were created
nineteen sixties, so they're not. Actually they're old by the
Burton Biscuit Co. And so they the Jemmy Dodger in
the UK is the number one biscuit for children, full stop.

(01:08:59):
And also out of that, out of the like the
number one biscuit, forty adults eat them as well, why
not does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Look, I've got my daughter as an amazing baker, and
she likes to bake. It's just something that she does
to kind of pass the time. And we just have
so many beautiful cakes and biscuits and things laying around,
and I'm just like, Okay, got to get her back
to school. These holidays have just been a nightmare. And
it's really funny because because we all sort of go
oh a bit over the baking. Sorry sorry Darane girl,

(01:09:33):
but then you go to the tupperway and it's all gone,
We've eaten it all. And she's standing the young home
at the baking. We're like, oh, I didn't, No, I didn't.

Speaker 18 (01:09:38):
It's hilarious, Jimmy Dodger.

Speaker 14 (01:09:41):
No, but do you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
She makes a brown sugar biscuit that she puts jam
on the top of in the middle, sort of puts
a doll up of jam on there, and that's really yummy.
Taught me through, taught me through with Jimmy Dodger.

Speaker 18 (01:09:53):
So I was seeing you to and we have a
very similar biscuit called Shoesberry. But this is better because
we're making them ourselves. So let's all make it depends
on the size that you cut them. Say ten biscuits.
Turn your oven on to begin with one hundred and
eighty degrees, and then into a mixer. You want to
cream one hundred and seventy five grams of butter and

(01:10:15):
one hundred grams of.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Cast of sugar.

Speaker 18 (01:10:17):
Give that a good whip until it becomes quite pale,
and then add a pinch of salt the zest of
a lemon, and give that another mix through. And then
you want to sieve your dry ingredients.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Like they're super easy these biscuits.

Speaker 18 (01:10:29):
If you've got two hundred grams of standard flour, two
tablespoons of corn flour, that's what makes the short crust short,
give that a sieve and then just slowly incorporate that
into your whipped butter. Fold that through forward into a ball,
Wrap it up with some clean film, fire it into
the fridge, just let it chill out for about thirty minutes,
and then after that you can pull it out. Just

(01:10:50):
knead it lightly on a on a bench, and then
you can roll it. You might need a little bit
of flour. Roll it out to I would probably go
just under a centimeter, and then cut out your shape
so you can have any shape like this one. I've
got the round ones, but you can kind of shape
them any mold that you've got and then lightly prick
them with a fork and they will just stop them

(01:11:11):
from rising up in the oven. Fire them into the oven.
They're going to take fifteen minutes, so the super fast.
After fifteen minutes, pull them out and then get your jam.
So I've got one hundred and twenty grands of jam,
So that's what half a cup of jam, and you
want to spread that between your layers of your two
short bread biscuits. To make a little bit easier, sometimes
you might put the jam into a pot and just.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
Heat it up a little bit.

Speaker 18 (01:11:32):
Lay that in between the two layers of your biscuit.
If you want to go super traditional, the top layer
of the biscuit, you can cut a little hole out
of the center so you can see the jam in
the middle and that's it. You could just lightly dust
it over with a bit of icing sugar, and those
are your jammy dodgers or yeah dodgy shredsbury semi.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Dodgy sound divine. Thank you so much, Mike. You can
get that recipe good from scratch dot co dot z
or news Talk sp dot co dot in z Forward
slash Sunday thirteen to eleven Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgod calls for the
best selection of the grape brings used talks'd be coming.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Up on the twelfth of October.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Is WHOA?

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
That was yesterday? Yesterday, thirteenth yesterday it was World arth
Writers Day. So we're going to talk managing joint pain
now and I'm joined by Natrobath, Aaron O'Hara. Good morning,
good morning. Gee, the year is just disappearing, isn't it?
October flying on there to start doing Christmas shopping soon.
Just to freak everybody out. Anyway, let's talk about arthritis.

Speaker 7 (01:12:34):
Yeah, so arthritis is such a common condition and it's
estimated that about six hundred and seventy thousand New Zealanders
have been diagnosed with arthritis, which is about one nearly
one in five New Zealanders, which is huge. And it's
something that causes a lot of you know, joint pain, tenderness,
swelling of the joints, and it can be really it

(01:12:57):
can really affect you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Every day life, that word.

Speaker 8 (01:12:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:13:02):
So yeah, it's something that like people have to live
with day by day a lot of joint pain, maybe stiffness,
And it's actually typically more common with women and.

Speaker 6 (01:13:12):
Especially as we age as well.

Speaker 7 (01:13:14):
And there's more than a hundred different types of arthritis,
so it's not just one thing, the most common being
osteoarthritis and also the second one rheumatoid arthritis. And it
can happen at any age as well, so kids can
get arthritis. It's not just something that we get as
we get older. And genetics play a big role in this.

(01:13:35):
I'm personally from a family that has genetics with.

Speaker 6 (01:13:38):
Lots of arthritis.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Has blessed you with these wonderful genes.

Speaker 16 (01:13:42):
Yeah, something to really look out for and know that
inflammation is part of that concern and causing their joint
pain is the inflammation and the swelling and just managing that.
And you know, there's a lot we can do for
managing it and living that anti inflammatory kind of lifestyle
and managing the pain.

Speaker 7 (01:14:01):
And I think the thing when we have joint pain,
the number one thing we think is, oh, I don't
really want to ex side on it because it's painful.
But actually, depending on what level of pain it's at
actually exercises incredibly helpful for most types of arthritis is
keeping that lubrication in the joint and moving the body

(01:14:21):
restoring flexibility. And actually sometimes when people with arthritis wake
up in the morning, they can feel more stiff and
more ach and then as they get moving they feel better.
And that's where kind of moving your body is actually
a really helpful way to kind of keep it managed
and also keep yourself moving and as you age, keeping
the body moving is super important.

Speaker 6 (01:14:43):
But also if there is a.

Speaker 7 (01:14:44):
Lot of pain, sometimes supplements can play a big role
in helping with managing that and some of my favorites
are using things like cucminoids, which is your turmeric, but
actually if you're going to do it through food, you
have to eat ridiculous amounts of tumeric. So usually a
supplement form of tumeric can be really helpful for anti
inflammatory supporting the joints as well as another favorite which

(01:15:06):
usually you wouldn't kind of think of this one over
the counter, so it's one known as boswalia or frankencense.
It's a little bit more potent actually than using turmeric,
but really good anti inflammatory for the joints, and then your.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
Typical fish oil, but you actually have to take a lot.

Speaker 7 (01:15:22):
Of fisher oil to get the anti inflammatory property, in
particular looking at the EPA which is that anti inflammatory
effect and helping with reducing inflammation. So all of these
things are helping support the body with your diet and
your lifestyle and making sure we're supporting and managing inflammation
so we can reduce the swelling, which also helps with

(01:15:43):
keeping the body moving and reducing joint pain.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Okay, sounds good, preventing arthritis from getting worse. It's all
those things that you just chosings as well as your
diet is the other big thing. And also managing a
weight because if we're carrying more weight, we're going to
have more load on the joints. And then when it
comes to diet, Mediterranean diet so that anti inflammatory, lots

(01:16:07):
of good fats through nut seeds, good fish fish like
things like salmon and sardines, as well as good amounts
of fruits and vegetables, and maybe be mindful around the
night shade vegetables, so things like tomatoes, white potatoes, eggplants,
and peppers. Those things can link to more inflammation and
joints or something to look out for Thank You So

(01:16:28):
Much Erin it is six to eleven Grab with cover.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of grape Greens used Talks'd Be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Best selling author Paula Hawkins joins me next to talk
about her latest book. It's called The Blue Hour. We're
going to chat about the impact the success of The
Girl on the Train had with her, and you know,
the movie and everything like that, and just how often
she thinks about good places to hide dead bodies. Of course,
when you're a true when you're when you're a crime writer,

(01:17:00):
these are the kind of things which you're on your mind.
So wherever she's wherever she's going, she's thinking, can I
hide a dead boy?

Speaker 12 (01:17:06):
They are not.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Actually, she believes it's very hard to hide a dead body.
These days. It's getting trickier and so that's making her
job as a writer trickier as well. So we'll be
talking about that next hour up next, and you've got
the news on news Talks You'd be. But I hear
their mom move inside you.

Speaker 12 (01:17:25):
Go.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
I'll be waiting when you call, And whenever a fall.

Speaker 20 (01:17:35):
And shophy, you let your arty, great down on me.
Whenever a touch, You're slow turning pain. We're never a fall,

(01:17:59):
We never a fall, We'll never ap fall.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Never Afore.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
The finger of blame.

Speaker 20 (01:18:12):
Has turned tolf lit for myself, my prison, my.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Hell, Molly.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best selection of great reeds us talks.

Speaker 12 (01:18:39):
It be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
This is the Sunday Session. Good to have you with
us at is seven past eleven. I'm Francisca with you
until the day coming at this our poney on Bathhurst.
Meghan takes us to Ruh a tongue in our travel segment,
and Joan has a couple of historical novels for us.

Speaker 6 (01:19:02):
Right, There's been almost ten.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Years since Arthur Paula Hawks made a name for herself.
It was in January twenty fifteen, the journalist in romance
writer released her first crime thriller, The Girl on the Train.
The book was huge, a global number one best seller,
sold at twenty three million copies and established her place
as an author of crime fiction. And she might just
have a new bestseller on her hands. Her new book

(01:19:24):
released this week has been touted by those in the
industry has her best yet. I ripped through it. It's
called The Blue Hour, and Paula Hawkins joins me from
the UK. Good morning, Paula, good morning, Hello. Thank you
so much for being with us. When it comes to
picking a book to read, my mother always used to
say to me, read the first few pages of a book,
then flick to the middle, read a few pages. If

(01:19:46):
it catches your attention, it reads well, then go for it.
With The Blue Hour, I didn't get to the middle.
I was totally hooked in the first few pages with
this very clever idea about a bone and an artwork.
Is that intentional? Is that what you want within a
couple of pages to created a page two that the

(01:20:08):
reader can't put down?

Speaker 14 (01:20:10):
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean I think that that. There are
obviously lots of different ways of getting into books, and
some some are slow bones, but you do it is
obviously it's a great thing where you come up with
that idea and you think, oh, yes, I can grab
them with this one. Because the idea kind of grabbed me.
It's this idea that there's a sculpture that's made out
of various bound objects and including animal bones or supposedly

(01:20:34):
animal bones, and then someone, you know, a grizzly discovery
is made that actually, maybe one of the bones is
not an animal bone, it comes from a human body,
and that sort of that that opens the story. And yeah,
I think that is It's such an intriguing it's such
an intriguing idea.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
It's very good. I loved it. I mentioned it at
the dining At the dining table, I see to my teenagers,
I said, this is the beginning of the book, and
they both immediately said, I want to read them. So
it works even even when you're just even when you're
just retelling it. More important thing is it to keep
those little twists coming with your books. There were lots

(01:21:13):
of moments where I was like, oh, hang on, what
just happened? And I have to go back and read.
It's not like the twists are obvious. It's not like
you feel them coming. How hard is that to write
like that?

Speaker 14 (01:21:29):
For me, it kind of happens quite organically, that those
moments sort of occur to you while you're in the writing.
It's not something I can plan and advance necessarily because
I don't want it to feel. Oh, you know, I
don't want the reader to feel a heart here is
a twist, you know, you want them to just be
sort of push people in slightly misdirect on this page,

(01:21:52):
or slightly point them in a different direction on a
different page. You would just want I mean that that
reaction that you just had to say, oh, hang on
and go back a bit. That's sort of what I
want to make people start wondering, wonder about this character,
wonder about the next character. You might think is is
warm and lovely and kind, and then there'll just be
a moment where you actually are given cause, given cause

(01:22:14):
to doubt them slightly. Those things, as I say, I
do feel they happen quite naturally and organically while you're
writing the books. So they should feel that they shouldn't
feel jarring, they should feel part of the flow of
the novel.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
So how much do you plan out your plot in
your stories?

Speaker 14 (01:22:33):
The way it seems to happen now is that I
need a sort of an end point to aim for. Definitely,
you know, I need to know kind of in broad terms,
who've done it. And that's what I'm that I know
that I have to get to that point where where
the mystery is solved and that the culprit or whatever
is revealed. Aside from that, I don't like to plan

(01:22:54):
a huge amount from the from the outset. I'd rather
sort of start writing, start developing the characters. However, about
usually about halfway through, I think I sort of have
to take a step back, and that's when I will
have a little you know, I'll put post its on
a wall or whatever, you and sort of figure out

(01:23:15):
that at that point you can kind of see the
shape of the novel developing, and you can kind of
figure out the points of tension and the point where
maybe the tension is slacking and you need to change something.
So yeah, so I tend to plan kind of halfway through,
which sounds weird, but it's only at that point that
I can really see the shape of the novel properly
and sort of gauge what I need to do next.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
And then do you find that you go back and
rewrite much?

Speaker 14 (01:23:43):
There's always yes, there is always quite a bit of
editing goes on this novel. I loved writing this novel,
I really did, and it didn't feel Some of them
take me an incredibly long time to figure out plots
and to move but you know, move all sort of
chess pieces around and that kind of thing. This novel
sort of flowed in quite a satisfying way, and I

(01:24:06):
did have to do much too much structural work, which
was great because it meant that I could really concentrate
on the language and the level of the sentence and
trying to get the sentences beautiful, which is what I
want to do. I want, I don't you know, it's
not just about a story. It's about write writing compelling, interesting,
beautiful sentences as well, so that you know that are

(01:24:26):
going to be a pleasure to read. So I had
more time to focus on that this time.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
Fantastic seating, Fantastic characters. The book is filled with these
complex women, all quite different but but probably the one
thing they might have in common is that they sort
of don't really sort of fit in, but do have
the capacity to do some quite ghastly things. Where do
these characters come from?

Speaker 14 (01:24:49):
Well, they are, you know, they're comfortable sorts of places.
But they generally I'll usually start with one particular kind
of aspect of them, and that might be something that
might come from someone I've met or someone i've read
about but you know, they none of them come to
me fully formed. There will just be one aspect. And

(01:25:11):
with Vanessa the artist in this piece, I was, you know,
I thought about a woman who was this is going
to sound strange, but making things from broken things. That's
kind of where she started, and that was inspired by
an art expression that I'd gone to see that that
isn't actually how it sort of turns out. You know,
there is an aspect of that in the novel. But

(01:25:31):
so you take one tiny thing and then you start
building around and think, well, why would she do this
and where is she doing this? And you start interrogating
where she comes from and why she's drawn to certain things.
So and you know, so that's sort of how they start.
They tend to start with one particular character trait, and
then I build a whole person around that trait.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
Vanissa's an artists who leaves her complicated marriage to be
free to pursue her art, to focus on her own ambitions.
Are we accepting enough of women who want to live
life on their own terms? These days?

Speaker 12 (01:26:07):
You know?

Speaker 14 (01:26:10):
You kind of I sort of think that progress is
made and then you'll read something and think, oh gosh,
maybe it hasn't been. Maybe it hasn't been, you know.
So Vanessa is working mostly in the nineties, and she's, yeah,
she's gone off on her own, she's left her husband,
she's decided she doesn't want to be married, she doesn't
want to have children, all those kind of things, and
you think, like, that isn't actually particularly radical anymore, is it?

(01:26:33):
And then you read stories from the United States at
the moment where they keep going on and on and
on about chapter this women and how you know, awful
childless women are, and you think, oh, well, actually, maybe
it is still a radical aptitude to live your life,
you know, slightly outside of that in inverted commas normal
family domestic structure. So I mean, I think we still
have We still find women who who just choose to

(01:26:56):
plow their own phorough problematic, which is ludicrous. But yeah,
and she is very much She's very single minded. She's
not the kind of person that everyone would want to
but I admire that kind of single mindedness. I can
see that it has its downsides, but that devotion to
to you know, to work and to making her mark,

(01:27:16):
I can really admire that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
The setting the story is set on an island off
the coast of Scotland, which is sort of joined to
the mainland by a causeway that can only be passed
at low tide. Do you love remote places? Do you
find them productive for working?

Speaker 14 (01:27:34):
It's yeah, I have these kind of I am very
drawn to places like that. I constantly imagine myself living
in places like that. I think I'm aware now that
it's kind of a fantasy that actually I wouldn't really
want to live there all the time. In a place
like that, I like the idea of being cut off,
or having no one around, or having no one to

(01:27:54):
bother me, of being in nature and you know, somewhere
really peaceful, where I can walk, where I can swim,
all those kind of things. But I also know that
if I was on an island like that where it's
you know, in the winter, it would be in the
middle of the afternoon and it would be creepy and
I would probably just never sleep. So it's a fantasy,
but I am it's when I indulge myself in but such.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
A good place to kill people and hide bodies. Is
there something that you sort of Is there something that
you think about often you might find yourself somewhere or
doing something and go hang on a mite. This could
be quite good.

Speaker 14 (01:28:27):
I mean I do, because it is not that easy
to get away with murder anymore. I don't think there's
so much you know, CCTV and everyone's got bones and everything.
Every I feel like we're being watched all the time.
So if you want to get away with a dark
deed fictionally, obviously, you know, it helps to be in
a place like that where you might be able to

(01:28:48):
do something, or you know, where bodies can might lie
undiscovered for a long time. So that, yeah, that's another
attraction of those places from a crime writer's point of view,
is that you have the scope to to act, to
behave badly and unseen.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
I mentioned Reduction that this book has been touted by
those in the industry. Is your beast yet? Is it
your beast book?

Speaker 14 (01:29:16):
I think yes, I think it is. I'm I'm really
I think as happy as I've been. You know, I'm
never happy with what I've done, no one, I don't
think writers ever are. But then well, there's always more
that you could go back and do. It's what I mean,
you always, you know, look at the the things you
might improve. But I am really happy with it and
I did as I said. I really enjoy writing it.

(01:29:37):
I loved the process, I love the characters, I love
the setting. I love sort of imagining myself in that setting.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
I went.

Speaker 14 (01:29:43):
I spent a lot of time on the West coast
of Scotland, wandering around, taking photographs and notes and all
that kind of thing. And I spent a lot of
time reading about artists and the lives of artists, and
you know, I just it was a real pleasure to write.
So I do hope that the readers get similar pleasure,
you know, from reading it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Oh look, I just loved it. I you know, I
good on the train? End your name synonymous with each other?
And look I did it in the introduction. Do you
hope that one day, though, when you're introduced, it will
be something for other than the Girl on the Train.
I mean, you've written other novels as well. We really
all to move on, shouldn't we? Are you sort of
feed up with that sort of association?

Speaker 8 (01:30:22):
Do you know what?

Speaker 14 (01:30:22):
It's funny because I think I'm less fed up than
I once was, and now there's so much distance between
me and it. I'm fond of it, and I appreciate
what the Girl on the train did for me, how
many doors it opened, the life it's enabled me to have.
I think when I, you know, the the book following that,
I was I said it sort of I bridled against

(01:30:44):
the fact that that's all everyone seemed to talk about
was the last book, not the book in hand. But
now you know, I'm fine with it. It is the
one that people remember a lot of people really really
loved that novel, and so I'm not going to I'm
not going to denigrate it. You know, Rachel still has
a has a place in my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
You've been successful as a journalist, a romance writer, and
now I see a crime writer. You found global fame
in your early forties. Is success in later life a
good thing? Do you think?

Speaker 14 (01:31:17):
I think it's probably easier to deal with when you're
forty than that when you're twenty two or something. You know,
I think you having failed a lot, which I had
in that, you know, before I wrote The Girl on
the Chain, you kind of you know you have something
to compare it to. You know that this is an
unusual thing that's happening to you. You know that this
is not not everything is going to be like this.

(01:31:38):
You're maybe more what I certainly was more kind of
grounded and comfortable in myself as a forty something than
I was as a twenty something. So I mean, I
would have to really ask someone who became very successful
in their twenties. But I think it's possibly more more destabilizing,
in a bit more difficult to handle when you're when
you're young.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
Paula, it's been such a sort of a busy decade
since the release of that book. Our writers cought of
what's the best advice you've been given when it comes
to writing that you've asked for?

Speaker 14 (01:32:15):
Oh gosh, that's a really tricky that's a tricky one
to answer. I mean, I think that generally writing communities
are incredibly supportive. You know, it doesn't feel like a zer.
There is some game. I think one person's success doesn't
mean somebody else's failure. But you know, people tend to
if they read a book they like, they then want

(01:32:36):
to go and read more books. So it's actually it's
good for everyone.

Speaker 12 (01:32:41):
In terms of.

Speaker 14 (01:32:41):
Advice, though, gosh, I can't think of any there. I mean,
there's so much. There is so much great advice I've had,
and I think probably I've been watched writers about me
and around me, and realize that taking your time, not
rushing into things. I think where I've made mistakes, it's
been by trying to do trying to get things done

(01:33:02):
too fast, and not sitting with the characters and and
letting a story to really percolate. I've read a lot,
you know, I've read really great writing books, Stephen King's
Writing Guide, which I think is just called on Writing,
and George Sawanders one as well. I'll just filled with
really like generous advice which I would recommend to any reader,

(01:33:24):
any writer.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Sorry, Paul, I just want to finish by coming back
to what I spoke about at the very beginning, that
importance of the hook. And I mean, I started this
book and I literally didn't put it down. I read
it till I've finished it. Do you think, though, do
you even not finish your book like I've always felt
obliged once I've started a book to just to finish it,
that I owed the book something. And now I've got

(01:33:46):
to fifty two and I'm like, I don't. Life's too short.
If I'm not enjoying this book or it's really badly written,
I don't need to read it. Do you ever not
finish your book.

Speaker 14 (01:33:57):
It's quite rare, but but I don't think you should
pursue things. If you know, if you're thirty pages fifty
pages in and it's really not working, I think, yeah,
give it's fifty pages. You really really don't feel this
is for you? Then then I would say no, well,
you know, there are so many books out there. You
don't have to spend your time on something that's not
that's not interesting. You were grabbing you. But on the

(01:34:19):
other hand, I recently read a novel and I won't
give the name because I don't want but I was
reading it and I was thinking, oh, I don't I
didn't know that it was badly middenmur I was thinking, no,
I'm not sure this is for me, and then I
ended up really loving it. So there's always that. It
is true. That happens, so you don't want to give
up too early.

Speaker 7 (01:34:36):
That is true.

Speaker 3 (01:34:38):
Paula Hawkins, thank you so much for the book. Loved it,
Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, and
The Blue Hour is in stores now. It's twenty two
past eleven Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
With Style The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Of Greg Reece use talk.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
Summer's on the way time to kick off the jandles
and go barefoot. But to get your lawn barefoot really
takes more than just mowing and watering. Yates we in
feed will tackle your lawns two biggest problems weeds and
patchy areas. This clever formation in targets broad leaf weeds
including daisies on a hunger weed, thistle, and dandelion without
harming your grass. Killing the weeds can leave more gaps

(01:35:20):
in your lawns. Yates weed in feed also adds nitrogen
and iron to boost grass growth. Choose the Yates weed
in feed that's right for you. The most popular is
the Hoson. It's easy to use and suitable for all
medium to large lawns except cuckoo. Another option is Yates
Weed and Feed Granular ideal for more precise control or

(01:35:43):
if you're worried about spraying precious plants around the edge
of your lawn the best choice for best choice for Coukuu.
And lastly, Yates weed and feed concentrate ideal for smaller
lawns and BOMs or where your hose can't reach. Apply
it with a water and can or sprayer, take the
next step for a barefoot ready lawn and grab yates

(01:36:05):
weed and feed your favorite hardware store or garden retailer. Today,
all the highs and.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
Lows talking the big issues of the week, the panel
on the Sunday Session and.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Joining me today resident economist at Opie's partner's Ed McKnight.
How are you Ed?

Speaker 12 (01:36:22):
Oh we're doing good. Friend Esco great to be here, Good.

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
To have you, and Coast Day host Laurna riding is
with us. How are you this morning, Launa.

Speaker 12 (01:36:34):
Dusty?

Speaker 17 (01:36:34):
I have a feeling your producer carry many have warned
you on my little Dusty. I hopeded the big last
night and it was a long night and a late night,
And yeah, I'm hoping Ed is going to be very
catty today.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
Oh no, we wouldn't have known if you hadn't said
a word, Luna, Hey, I want to talk about the
study that was released today. We spoke to Dr Alex
Beatty earlier in the show, and the study shows New
Zealanders are avoiding the news and according to the research,
is sixty percent of Kiwi's admit to avoiding news, which
is one of the highest reported rates in the world.

(01:37:07):
To be honest with you, Lorna, I'm not hugely surprised
that less people are paying attention to the news, especially
after the pandemic, but I was surprised it was up
to sixty percent.

Speaker 17 (01:37:18):
And the fact that we are kind of, you know,
world leaders in avoiding news kind of surprise me. I mean, obviously,
I don't avoid the media because I work in the media,
and my kids don't because I forced them to know
what's going on. But I think a lot I mean
I saw a few reasons given for or explanations given
as to why that might be the case here in
New Zealand. But I think one of the big things

(01:37:39):
is a lot of store was put by that fifty
five million dollar public journalism money that was given. That
was referred to often by people as a bribe for
the media, and I see that brought up all the time,
and it wasn't helped by our now Deputy Prime Minister
Winston Peters reiterating that. And so I think there is

(01:37:59):
still a sense with some sectors of New Zealand that
the media is not to be trusted, that they've been
given this bribe by the government, so they're completely biased.
I mean, I don't see that at all. I think
we have a really robust media here.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
But you know, you can't argue with the stats, right,
I mean, yeah, I sort of tended. I wasn't hugely
surprised by the reason. So people talking about the quality
of the news that just makes them unhappy. That really
resonated with me. I can remember coming out of COVID
and people were just I'm done. I don't need to
hear any more news. I just don't need to hear
any more bad news.

Speaker 12 (01:38:36):
Yeah, And I think it plays into as well. These days,
we often hear in the public discourse is feeling of
being overwhelmed. You know. I often hear that from people
just like, oh, life is very overwhelming. And I don't
think the media helps himself much because they certainly play
into that. It feels like every time there's a media
story released here in New Zealand, we talk about something
being in crisis. And so what I did this morning

(01:38:58):
was go to Google News and type in crisis in
z just to see the total range of things that
we say are in crisis in New Zealand. From how
New Zealand's financial crisis, we've got an energy crisis, there's
the cost of living crisis, there's a G twenty leaders
gathering to battle the financial crisis. Small businesses are in
crisis mode according to the University of Auckland, and there's

(01:39:20):
a looming crisis around at how we pay for our
aged care sector. And so if you've just been feared
all these stories every ye oh, of course the climate crisis,
you're right, Lord, everything's in crisis, and so it's easy
to see why people might turn off for that from that,
when everything appears to be a bad news story and
we're telling ourselves that our country isn't very good, when

(01:39:42):
in fact our country is excellent.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
It's a really good point. And the word starts to
lose its power, doesn't it when we really do hurt
a crisis, I mean not, I think it'd be fair
to say that there are some crisis there. Ed what
other tips would you have for the media?

Speaker 12 (01:39:57):
Well, I think one of the big things is that
I think we need to get back to being a
bit more positive and a lot more news stories. Some
of the local reporting I sometimes see in the likes
of the Herald is really excellent, with the highlighting small
businesses who are actually doing really interesting things. Do you
know what's amazing? Did you know down in christ such

(01:40:18):
around Canterbury there is a whole aerospace sector where people
are sending stuff up into space and exploring space from
little old New Zealand and I was amazed to see
that there are some really exciting things happening. And I
want to see more of that highlighted because there are
some clever, clever people here in New Zealand doing amazing things.
And if you could see that, you'd think, God, this

(01:40:39):
is a great place to be it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
Clearly haven't been listening to the Sunday Session. We have
covered that sector quite a lot well.

Speaker 12 (01:40:45):
Of course, these comments don't apply to the good people
at news to no just.

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
My show, But you're absolutely right, and I think it
makes a really good point. Unfortunately, most of a lot
of news is negative or bad or tragical, sad, and
it's great to balance that out with really positive stories
about people doing amazing things and great things. But there's
a lot of pressure as well on the on the
industry and you know, finding people to do those kind

(01:41:10):
of you know, be able to afford maybe to do
those stories and things. It's getting harder and harder.

Speaker 17 (01:41:16):
Oh yeah, I mean I don't want to No, I
do want to plug my show actually, But Coast is
our tagline is feel good and we are actually deliberately
and antidote to all that bad news. So everything we
do on from our songs to every piece of content
that we put on here is all feel good because
we know that people need that. But I've just come

(01:41:37):
back from a two and a half week trip to Europe. Honestly,
you appreciate this country so much more when you've been overseas,
when you see the quality of not just the media,
but the lifestyle as well. So yeah, I would love
to see more highlighted here. But yeah, you know, the
media has a job to do and sometimes, you know,
things do get reported sensationally. But because we are small

(01:41:59):
and we probably don't have as much good stuff happening.
But it's right, Yeah, more good news people, more good news.

Speaker 3 (01:42:04):
Yeah, no, and that's where everyone's probably gone. You're quite right,
they're listening to you. Well done you. Hey, guys, I
noticed that there was an article about christ Church bars
being accused of by cape dress sense And I'm going
to be honest with you. I think that men should
be allowed to carry a bag. I don't have a
problem with a man having a bag, but actually I
don't also have an issue with a dress code. I

(01:42:25):
think we are by our nature very relaxed, very casual
here in New Zealand, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to
make an effort it to head out.

Speaker 12 (01:42:35):
Believe it or not, Fred Cheska, it was only a
year or two ago that I was in the christ
Church going to some of these bars that they're talking about.
I never thought that the dress code was much of
an issue. I did note in that article they didn't
really show any photos of the specific outfits that got
tuned away. But I agree with you that I don't
have a problem if men are carrying a bag or
somebody's top, as particularly share. But I do think that

(01:42:58):
it's appropriate for a private bar to be able to
enforce some sort of dress code. So, for instance, if
you're trying to be a Hindu market bar where people
dress up and come and make an occasion of it.
If someone then turns up and Stubby's a singler and jandles,
I think a bar has every right to say, hey,
this is probably not the vibe for you right now.

(01:43:19):
Why don't you head on down to rock Pool, which
is a bar in christ Church where that sort of
a time might be totally appropriate. So I think having
some form of dress code is probably totally fine. It's
just how it then gets enforced and making sure that
it's really clear what those standards are.

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
Lorna, you always look amazing When I see you out,
I imagine that you're all for, you know, dressing up
and making an effort.

Speaker 17 (01:43:43):
Well, actually, I have made such an effort Francesca that
I did market research. I went out on the town
Friday night and we're barhopping to several bars in christ Church.
I'm still here at the moment, actually, and I don't
see anyone particularly overly dressed. I didn't feel in any
of the bars that we went to that we were
being judged on what we were wearing, or that anyone

(01:44:04):
else was being judged on what they were wearing. Do think, yes,
as Ed says that a man not being allowed to
bag and is completely silly, But I think Landers we
tend to be a bit agile at the best of times,
and I like to see people dress up for a
night out.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Why not.

Speaker 17 (01:44:21):
I think it's utterly up to the bars. If they
enforce the policy. As it said, we don't know what
that man was wearing. He talks about wearing a sheer
top and being turned away. Maybe nipples aren't appropriate. You know,
if I turned up on a shed top, I'd probably
be turned away as well.

Speaker 3 (01:44:39):
Well, give it, let us know how it goes. Hey,
look very quickly, yes or no answer. How would you
feel for New Zealand if it was proven that Edmund
Hillary wasn't the first to summit Everest? Of course, I'm
referring to the boot of Andy Irvine who was found
on Everest?

Speaker 17 (01:44:59):
Here.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
Would would that be a hit for New Zealand?

Speaker 12 (01:45:03):
Ed not? Of my of you, Hillary still did great things.
He was the first to come back and tell the tale.

Speaker 17 (01:45:09):
Laura Well, I'd like to see Tenzing Norgay mentioned in
the same breath as Edmond Hillary. Beyond the point we
always talk about ed Hillary and this could take away
from ed Hillary. And I'm thinking what about Tensing Norgay.
I mean, he wouldn't have made it ed Hillary great
New Zealander though he is, he wouldn't have made it
without Tensing. So I would like to like to see
him acknowledged as well.

Speaker 12 (01:45:27):
But you know, big deal.

Speaker 17 (01:45:28):
I don't think they're going to be able to prove
it one way or the other. Was the book going up?
Was the boot coming down?

Speaker 14 (01:45:32):
We will never know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
We need to find that camera. Laurna and Ed they
had great to talk to you this morning. Thank you
so much. Twenty three to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
B Jason Vine is coming up at midday with Weekend
Sport and he's with me. Now, good morning, good morning.

Speaker 6 (01:45:53):
What's on the show.

Speaker 21 (01:45:55):
I'm going to talk about red cards, twenty minute red
cards and rugby. We've had them down this end of
the world for quite a while. It's going to be
introduced globally. By the looks of it. This has not
gone down very well in the Northern Hemisphere or in
afrogab but Nigel Owen's one of our greatest ever referees
in rugby history. The Welsh Im'm going to join us
with his view on this. America's Cup team New Zealand two,

(01:46:15):
kneil Up and South Canterbury have lost the game of
rugby for the first time in five years. How did
this happen? We'll unpack this for you as well.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
If you can't have consistency with the use of the
red card, then I like, you know, across the board globally.
Then I like the idea of it being twenty minutes.

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
I do too.

Speaker 21 (01:46:30):
And I also think that the red card thresholds come
down a lot because of the whole head on head
contact thing, which is very different from somebody coming into
the side of a ruck and just punching somebody. That's thuggery,
that's recklessness. Head on head contact like sam Kin in
the World Cup final last year. Very different, So I
think there needs to be some sort of distinction there.
But yeah, lots to unpack. We'll do it rather than

(01:46:51):
me use all my best stuff with you, Francesca, we
might do it after the day.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
Oh well, since we're only getting a second rate Jason Pine,
then we'll let you go and you can prepare this
masterpiece of radio which will be coming at us.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
Thank you.

Speaker 14 (01:47:08):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:47:08):
You know, sometimes you get a you know, you get
you get a radio host and fine foreman. Other times
they've got a show to host.

Speaker 17 (01:47:15):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:16):
It is twenty twelve News talksb Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:47:20):
With Style The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great Reads, News talksb Travel
with Wendy wu Tours unique fully inclusive tours around the.

Speaker 3 (01:47:33):
World My Life from Raratanga. We are doing with our
travel correspondent Meghan Singleton. Good morning, Good.

Speaker 19 (01:47:40):
Morning, Kurana.

Speaker 22 (01:47:41):
I hope you can hear me right because I'm on my.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
Yeah, well we could until you said that and then
you disappeared. What's the temperature like in Ratana?

Speaker 22 (01:47:51):
It's a lovely Balmie twenty five. It's quite muggy, but
it's it's a bit breezy. It's actually quite lovely because
it's not boiling hot summer. And I'm standing at my
resort little room looking out across the pool and across
the slagoon, and it's a whale watching season, so every
now and again people leap up off the bean bags

(01:48:11):
and have a look at the spout in the water
beyond the lagoons terrace. Exciting and that's why I actually
chose this time of year to come back, because last
time last year I was here in March, which was
also lovely, but this is whale watching season, so here
I am keen to look fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:48:28):
Now I know that you're hosting sixteen women, you're on
a tour over there, and I'm presuming that they all
came from all different parts of around the country to
fly out. I'm hearing a lot more now about people
staying at the airport hotels in Auckland before taking international flights.

Speaker 22 (01:48:44):
Yes, well, now the brand new Pullman's opened right there,
so you've got the Novertell and it's sister property the Pullman.
They're literally across the concourse once you step out of
the rival gates. So actually I stayed there. I went
and bought myself the Apport Plus program and that gives
you a free night trip for young players. Though make
sure you tell them that when you book, and tell
them when you're booking dinner that you're using your fifty

(01:49:05):
percent out. Anyway, we sorted that out at six in
the morning the next day and it was all good.
But I did get a few stats out of Cook
Islands tourism. Just I thought it might be interesting for
listeners because in twenty three and twenty four there've never
been more Keiwi's visiting the Cook Islands than ever before.
Even COVID they expect one hundred and fifteen thousand of
us to come here just this year alone. And what

(01:49:27):
I love about it is it only takes one hour
ride around the whole island if you were going to
do that, So you're only ever thirty minutes from the
furthest point. And there's lots and lots of choices cafes
and hotels and bars and restaurants. And we've just spent
the morning at the lovely market.

Speaker 4 (01:49:43):
I bought a little.

Speaker 22 (01:49:43):
Dress and everyone's buying shell earrings and well, yeah, so
it's just such a wonderful place to come, either to
flying flop or to fly and be busy and explore
and go out in the water and do turtle snorkeling
and hire an e bike or do we ever it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:50:00):
With the while watching. Can you appreciate it from the
shore or is it do you get a better experience
and saf maybe you head out on the water.

Speaker 22 (01:50:08):
Yeah, well you definitely would if you went out on
the water, And I think you can even swim in
them if they don'tz was off away from you. To
be honest, it would depend totally where you are, And
there are some higher locations to watch them from. Some
bars Co cocktail as one at Black Rock, which we're
heading to probably tomorrow, and we hope to be able
to see them. Yeah, I'm not sure. We're on the

(01:50:29):
West coast, which is actually another great spot to be
away from the predominantly easterly wind. So if you are
looking for where to stay, the East coast resorts are
quite a good idea.

Speaker 14 (01:50:39):
And I would say one tip bring.

Speaker 22 (01:50:41):
Your air plugs for the roosters that go off like
firecrackers all night, and your mossie repellent and many of
these sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:50:49):
So the roosters going twenty four seven, are they as
opposed to morning.

Speaker 22 (01:50:54):
Till about once every two hours starting from before midnight.
You just get back to sleep and then one fire
is on.

Speaker 3 (01:51:01):
Okay, it's fine.

Speaker 22 (01:51:02):
There's chickens everywhere and it's very sweet.

Speaker 14 (01:51:06):
Plugs to appreciate the cuteness.

Speaker 3 (01:51:08):
Well, look, I wouldn't complain. You're in Rarataga, you know,
and it's twenty five degrees and you've got some whales
in the near distance. I think it's all sounding amazing.
We shall keep an eye out for more on your trip.
You'll be able to find that at blogger at large
dot com. It is twelve to twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:51:26):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Grape Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:51:32):
Joan mackenzie joins us now to talk books. Good morning, Hello,
I am really interested in this book by Ariel Lahon.
I was Anastasia.

Speaker 9 (01:51:42):
Yes, I'll just spell that surname for people, because it's
quite a hard one to grasp. It's law ho n
Ariel Lahon. Now, I've loved her for some time, particularly
last year when she wrote a book called The Frozen River,
which was magnificent historical fiction. And this is also historical fiction,
but of a quite different type. Anastasia, of course, was

(01:52:03):
one of the children of the Romanov family. The family,
the parents and the five kids were all executed during
the Bolshevik Revolution. But there was a woman called Anna
Anderson who spent years and years and years claiming to
be one of those murdered children, and she wanted to
claim her rightful place in the Romanov dynasty and spent

(01:52:24):
years trying to prove that case. She even had marks
on her body which would correspond with the gunfire that
the family received at the time they died, and she
says that she managed to get away and get herself
back together. Essentially so it's a really interesting story. And
what she does in this book, she tells it from
the perspective of both Anna and of Anastasia and essentially

(01:52:49):
leaves it up to the reader to figure out where
you think the truth lies. So if you've got a
thing for the Romanovs, as so many people do have,
this would be a really good one to pick up
because it's very interesting historical fiction around a fascinating premise
that Anna Anderson pursued for quite some time.

Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
It is one of those enduring mysteries, isn't it as
to whether Arominov really did manage to survive that massacre? Yes? Yeah, interesting. Okay,
what else have you got for us?

Speaker 9 (01:53:15):
I've got a nonfiction book called Eden Undone by Abbot Khla.
This is fascinating. In the nineteen thirties, there were a
couple of Germans who decided that they wanted to establish
a new utopia, and they chose an island in the
Galapagus and off they went. But before they went, the
male of the two had all of his teeth extracted

(01:53:36):
because he knew there'd be no dental surgery on the island,
which was at that stage uninhabited. Practical practical, so he
had a set of stainless steel dentches made and when
they got there, and of course her teeth started to
fall out. They shared the dnches, so it's got all
its kind of extraordinary information in it. And they were
followed there by a couple of other groups. There was
a World War One veteran in his family and he

(01:53:57):
was traumatized from the war and they were living a
quite difficult life. And then the third group that came
was a woman claiming to be an Austrian bat Barrenness,
and she turned up with her two lovers, and she
had a pearl handled pistol and she used to kind
of pistol whip them and make them fight each other
and do really weird things. So things on the island
got quite odd, and there were visitors. There were some

(01:54:21):
wealthy American businessmen who used to take scientific expeditions around
the area where they had scientists on board, and they'd
pick up samples and take them back for further observation
back in the States. But he one of these guys
particularly befriended the original couple on the island. And then
there were the tourists who came along to gork at them,

(01:54:42):
and the baroness would seduce the tourists as they arrived.
So it really was quite the situation. They sound like
a find, just extraordinary. And then towards the end, two
of the inhabitants of the island go missing and three
of them are found dead, and there are all sorts
of accusations of murder, flying and foul play. It's a
really interesting piece of I guess history.

Speaker 3 (01:55:04):
Eden Undone is the name of that book by Abbott Carla. Also,
the first book that Joan spoke about was I was
Anastasia by Ariel Lahon. Thank you so much, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
Eave it Simple.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of a graverys news talk.

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
Zenb thank you so much for.

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
Joining us today on the Sunday Session. Thanks to Carrie
for producing the show. Jason Pine's going to be up
with you next with Weekend Sport and Fine four. Next
week on the show, Jimmy Artinton is going to join me.
Jimmy Arston is the British actress who has been in
films such as Quantum as Solas. She was a bond girl,
Hansel and Gretel, rogue agent, The Kingsman, rock and Roller.

(01:55:50):
She's recently just starred in a film called The Critic,
so we're going to be talking about that. Also joining
me is Andrew Fagan. He has written a book about
his adventures at sea. It's called Swirly World, Swirly World,
Lost at Sea. So we're going to finish with a
little bit of music from the Mockers. Enjoy the rest
of your afternoon, look forward to catching up with you

(01:56:10):
next Sunday. Take care, I give a.

Speaker 12 (01:56:21):
I have a pie, some nothing time, I will.

Speaker 3 (01:56:35):
Sad sound.

Speaker 14 (01:56:41):
So last.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
Were the Lifecar Juesday?

Speaker 23 (01:56:53):
Were the job stares with them? Livescar Forever Esday? Morn?
Where do byls go?

Speaker 14 (01:57:09):
Forever Jesday?

Speaker 1 (01:57:37):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Full Show Podcast: 13 October 2024

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Full Show Podcast: 13 October 2024

24/7 News: The Latest