Full Show Podcast: 21 July 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks ed B.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads US Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Francesca Rudkin.
Wonderful to have you with us this morning. I am
with you until midday to day. Congratulations. If you've made
it through the holidays, hope you had a good time,
you at least survived. I imagine tomorrow was one Monday
morning you were actually really looking forward to, unless, of course,
your kids have three weeks of holiday hanging there. This

(00:49):
hour we get the latest on the IT saga and
its ongoing global impact. Keen to hear from you if
you were still dealing with the consequences. Ninety two ninety
two is the text number. My guest after ten this
morning is the fabulous David Williams, Or, the TV show host, comedian,
an actor, man of many trades, and he is with

(01:09):
us to talk about his latest book and his upcoming
tour of New Zealand, and he's going to explain to
us why he ended up in a Venice jail as well.
After eleven I am joined by journalist Lucia Osborne Crowley.
She was one of four journalists who had access into
the courtroom of the Gale Maxwell court case, and she

(01:32):
has written a book called The Lasting Harm, and she
talks us through what it was like for her to
be in that courtroom and so close to the trial.
As I mentioned, you're most welcome to text any time
this morning ninety two ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Two for Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Over the last couple of weeks, the largest meeting room
here at NZME has slowly been transformed into a sports
commentator's box, so our sports reporters can bring you live
coverage of the Paris Olympics and gold Sport with highlights
on News Talk ZB. They're going to be kicking off
with a live ceremony on Friday morning from five point
thirty am and I cannot wait, even if most of

(02:09):
it has taking place in the middle of the night
for us these Olympics, they're going to be excellent company
for insomniacs and for news junkies and sports lovers like me.
It'll be wonderful to wake up on a winter's dawn
to news of glorious victories and devastating defeats and wondrous underdogs.
It's also exciting because these Olympics promise something different, with

(02:30):
a historic opening ceremony with athletes floating on barges down
the Seine Beach, volleyball under the Eiffel Tower, and freestyle
BMX at the Plus de la Concord, also where Marie
Antoinette lost her head. But the Olympics offers more than
winds and losses and excellent scenery. It tells complex stories
of courage, redemption and sacrifice. And recently I've been indulging

(02:54):
in preparation for the Olympics in sporting documentaries which have
me thinking about high performance sport and a whole new light.
Thanks to Netflix, we now have a better understanding of
life as a tennis player, a goal for a Formula
One driver, quarterback or sprinter. Sure, a lot of the
appeal of these shows is down to clever editing, and

(03:15):
not all these sports are at the Olympics, but they
have given us more of an understanding of the physical,
mental and emotional lives of professional athletes, and no series
does this more than Netflix's Smoanbiles Rising, which touches on
the darker side of being an elite athlete. As you remember,
at the Tokyo Olympics, Smo and Biles did what no

(03:35):
one expected of her, struggling mentally, suffering from the twisties
as her brain and body disconnected, which means she got
lost in the air snow and bals she withdrew or
as her many critics at the time said she quit.
Now Barles is one of the all time grades. She
has changed her sport Forever moves are named after her.

(03:55):
Rules have been changed to accommodate what she can do.
She is also the victim of abuse by a former
coach who was sentenced to one hundred and seventy five
years in prison for sexually abusing more than one hundred
and fifty young gymnasts. She has experienced pressure and expectation
unlike anything most of us will ever experience, so it's
really fascinating in the stockumentary to hear her explain what

(04:16):
happened to her in Tokyo, the shame she felt, and
how she's recovered and found her passion for gymnastics. Again,
how she dealt with the vitriol from people who called
her acquitter, people probably unable to do a cartwheel and
who had no idea of the danger involved in what
she does. Paris twenty twenty four is about her redemption.
It's about taking back control of her life, her legacy,

(04:38):
and most importantly, doing the things she loves and is
brilliant hat she reminds us that while she may seem superhuman,
she is only human. She can do super extraordinary things,
but only if she takes as much care of her
mental health as she does her body. She is once
again rewriting the rules. This is just one of the
fascinating stories that makes these Olympics so compelling.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Bring it on the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
So I do recommend watching that simone By documentary. If
you haven't watched it already, keen to hear your thoughts
about it. Ninety two ninety two is a text or
if you've heard of any other amazing stories heading into
these Olympics of sacrifice, maybe like the Australian hockey player
who's had his finger amputated in order to be able
to go and play at the Olympics. Here's a bit
of sacrifice for you, isn't it? As I mentioned, the

(05:27):
twenty twenty four Olympics will officially begin in Paris with
the opening ceremony this Friday at five thirty am, and
also this hour on the Sunday session, former Olympian Sarah
Carlia Ross is going to talk us through some of
our metal prospects in Paris. You're with the Sunday session.
It is twelve past nine. News Talks VB.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Relax, It's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and whitggles for
the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Juliet too was preparing for the Olympics. She texts to
say Netflix Doto on the US sprinters pretty amazing, isn't it?
Even every hair, nail and makeup was fascinating. Look forward
to seeing them in a few weeks time. Same came.
Some came from very challenging childhood. It's great show, yeah,
isn't it? Juliet. I've been really enjoying the sprint as
one as well, and you were right, makes me feel

(06:16):
like I really should look the game when it comes
to you know, a little bit of making myself look better.
Thank you very much for your text. You can text
anytime this morning. Ninety ten ninety two now, on Friday,
the largest IT outage in history crippled the globe. The
issue was caused by an update to a piece of
software run by US cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike. Computers crashed, canceling flights,

(06:37):
disrupting retail operations and affecting services like Saint John and
Auckland Transport. The outage was not malicious, but it was
so widespread that CrowdStrike saw its value tumbled by New
Zealand twenty billion. Gorilla Technology CEO and tech commentator Paul
Spain joins me. Now, good morning, Paul, Good morning, Francesca.
Have we able to sort of narrow down how this occurred,

(06:59):
why this occurred?

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Well, what we have is a situation with cybersecurity software
that runs and a lot of organizations around the world
that is always trying to close the door on the
very latest cyber threats, and so part of the way
they do this is when they see new information online
and new threats, they update their software. So this is

(07:25):
happening on a continuous basis for every single day, multiple
times a day. And what happened in this occasion is
they've done an update to try and protect everyone, but
the update wasn't tested well enough, it was faulty, and
it's just taken down these millions of computers around the world.
And unfortunately a lot of those computers that were taken

(07:49):
offline by this were ones that as a general public
we rely on for things, you know, like our banking,
like flights and so on. So you know, it's had
that huge widespread impact.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Considering their updating daily, Paul, is almost amazing. This hasn't
happened before.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah, look to some degree, you know, with a lot
of the other updates that we that we get, and
if you've got a you know, a smartphone or a computer,
which is most of us, we're quite used to this
cycle of updates coming through. But most of them there's
there's enough time to test and they don't hit everybody

(08:31):
at you know, at the same time. But with these
particular updates, they are very fast. So yeah, that is
probably you know, reasonably unusual across the different updates that
we get, is that particular pace, and yeah, they really
drop the ball big time on this one.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Is there a monopoly here that's made this issue so big.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Look, CrowdStrike are a big and and a dominant player,
and I guess you know, one of the one of
the lessons in here is that it's important to you know,
to have a range of vendors that we can we
can choose from and not having all eggs in one basket.
And and that's you know, sometimes been a common approach

(09:14):
for organization is to try and simplify and not use
too many, too many different companies to provide their you know,
their technology plumbing. And there's benefits to that, and there's
risks to it. And I guess you know what we've
seen here is as one of the risks.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
Could it have been worse, Yeah, potentially.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
It could have been, but yeah, this is certainly at
the at the worse end of the impact. And that
you know, so many millions of computers will have needed
IP technicians to get in front of them to to
fix them up. So, you know, often when there's some
sort of software glitch that can be resolved with an

(10:02):
update that just goes out automatically and you've had a
little bit of pain for a little while and then
it's fixed.

Speaker 6 (10:08):
But in a lot of.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Cases, with this one. It needs somebody sitting down, maybe
you know, in front of a laptop, in front of
a computer to fix it directly. Although a lot of
those sort of systems that run the banks and run
the airlines are able to be managed in a centralized manner.
And so yeah, you've had people sort of you know, working,
working through the night and so on over the last

(10:30):
couple of nights, you know, who have as individuals have
been able to work through and address this on very
large quantities of server systems that that kind of you know,
run these important parts of the world and of the Internet.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
What are the wider consequences for this for the global
cybersecurity industry?

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Look, I think it leaves people feeling uncomfortable around around
you know, sitting aspects of technology around cybersecurity. I imagine
what we're going to see is some pushback from organizations
around having updates come to them at the sort of
pace that that they have been and that in it

(11:17):
in itself is a real balancing act because if the
updates come to you slower, then potentially that increases the
chance that you will get hit by a malicious cyber attack.
So that's it's a fine fine balance, But you know,
in this case, I think, you know, CrowdStrike really, you know,
has something to answer for. And you know, they definitely

(11:40):
need to make sure that they're doing more thorough testing
before they push these updates out. But yeah, I think
I think it leaves people feeling somewhat uncomfortable about relying
so much on technology too.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Absolutely, I'm going to be using this pause and excuse.
My children are always saying you're so slow, mum. Your
phone needs to be updoated, your computer needs to be updated.
I'm just going to sit there now going remember CrowdStrike,
do that, Brad.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Just get the updates. They keep you safe. But if
you want to wait extra half an hour.

Speaker 7 (12:12):
Sure, So.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Just if you're a customer, if you're somebody who's been
affected by this, you think you're doing the right thing.
You've got your cybersecurity software in place. Is there anything
else that you should be thinking about now going forward?

Speaker 8 (12:27):
Going?

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Okay, if this thing happened again, or I was attacked,
what do I need to have in place? What should
I be thinking about?

Speaker 4 (12:34):
Look, you know, I think all of us need to
need to be upskilling and becoming aware of you know what,
what the cyber risks and threats are and you know
those who have whether it's a small business or a
large business or where you know, wherever they sort of sit,
you know it when it comes to organizationally, their organization,

(12:55):
you know, should have plans of what are they going
to do for you know, all manner of things that
can that can go wrong, right, and we've done this
for decades business continuity planning. What happens if the Internet
goes down, what happens if this happens to our computers,
what happens if we have a cyber attack. But unfortunately
in New Zealand we have a pretty low standard when

(13:17):
it comes to preparedness for cyber security issues, so we
often leave ourselves actually wide open and then that broader
preparedness for dealing with the inevitable with technology risk that
at some times things are going to go wrong, and
so you know, this to me is it's a bit
of a wake up call to be more prepared and

(13:40):
to be more ready so that when things do go wrong,
you know we can be on the right side of it.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Paul, good to talk to you, and I promise I
shall go home this afternoon and run on my updates.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
That was it.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Paul Spain there, Guerrilla Technology CEO and tech commentator.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
This Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
So retail across the country experience difficulties on Friday, as
you probably know, and through it and through into Saturday
as payment systems went down, Retail New Zealand was urging
customers to be patient. In Retail New Zealand CEO Carolyn
Young joins me, now, good morning. Were retailers prepared for this?
Could they be prepared for this?

Speaker 9 (14:22):
I don't know if anyone was prepared for this. Really,
It's not something anyone had expected. Obviously, a global IT outage,
impacting everyone across the globe, from airports and airlines to banks,
to retailers to people at home. It was a massive
outage that had instantaneously and reminded us how interconnected we

(14:45):
are with each other today.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Could something have been done to prevent the effect this
had on retailers?

Speaker 9 (14:53):
Look, it's hard to know right at this stage if
you could prevent something of this magnitude, but I know
that a number of the banks and the payment gateways
will be looking at you know, what occurred and how
could something be to ensure that it doesn't occur again.
But when something cut trickles down the line so quickly,

(15:15):
you know, it's very difficult to manage that when it's
outside your control and you work on a platform like
Windows where that was impacted.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Carolyn, what kind of ongoing effects will this have? How
many sales do you think we've likely been lost because
of this? I've been able to calculate that yet.

Speaker 9 (15:32):
Yeah, No, haven't been able to calculate that yet. We
need to see some data around payment transactions and do
some analysis if we can get some daily transactions. Certainly,
Friday night was more difficult than yesterday, that's sure. You know.
Friday night was a situation where it was unfolding in
front of us, and some payments were going through and

(15:54):
some weren't, and some point of system styles were working
and some weren't. So, you know, it was a little
bit more to understand exactly what was happening and how
the impact would roll out into Saturday. And relatively speaking,
Saturday was a relatively smooth trading day, especially compared to
Friday evening.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah, yesterday, my producer was at a supermarket and I
was at a large retailer, and both had a selected
group of checkouts working or computers working, they was still
having to go through the process. Is that one of
the problems that it's just not a quick fix. It's
not like, oh okay, sorry, here's a new update, run it,
We're good to go. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (16:34):
Look, it's a really complex space, isn't it, Because you know,
if you take one part of it, if you look
at the payment system and the gateways that occur through
a contact list or credit transaction, it's not just hitting
one space. It's not just going to the bank. It's
going through a number of different providers to ensure that

(16:56):
that transaction is completed. And so that means that any
one of those providers could be hashed along the way,
which would mean that the transaction doesn't complete. So you know,
you're a line and a whole system of people and
businesses for the whole business to work. So that's what
makes it much more complex, And obviously people would have

(17:16):
been a little bit cautious about some of the fixes
ensuring that they worked correctly. You know it, people would
have been swamped on Friday and Saturday with helping people
with you know, the blue screen of death that a
number of a number of people had on their computers.
So just making sure that the fix that you did
for that blue screen of death was appropriate, because you

(17:40):
know that there's always opportunities when things like this happened
for scammers to come out and try and make more chaos, right,
So it's about making sure that the fix is actually
the accurate one and it's going to work for your business.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
And of course, Carolyn, whenever something like this happens, we
asked the question, are we too reliant on technology? Should
we use cash?

Speaker 6 (18:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (18:02):
Well, look, cash is obviously king in a crisis, right.
We do know that from this and Auckland and the
cyclones that had the East coast last year that you know,
technology wasn't effective in those crisis situations in cash with king,
So you know, it is helpful if people do have
an ability to have some cash reserves, so if they

(18:24):
need to get some essentials from the supermarket, or they
need some fuel or something, that they're able to do something.
But we recognize that not everybody has spare cash, but
you can obviously still transact with cash, so you could
do some you can have some of your regular payments
that you pay with cash, so that you're prepared for
something like this, but it is sort of really challenging.

(18:45):
And you know, the transaction system, compared to the contact
list on the old f POST system, does have the
ability to work offline and that does make their ability
for retailers and essential providers to continue to transact when

(19:06):
system go down.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Carolyn, there have been reports of aggressive behavior from consumers,
which really just sucks because we're all in this together.
It's not convenient for anybody, is it.

Speaker 9 (19:15):
Yeah, no, it's not. And people were frustrated on Friday
night not really understanding what was happening and why transactions
weren't going through, knowing that they had money in their
bank account and you'd get a message saying that your
transaction was declined. I myself got caught up in that,
and I remember, I've quite dumbfounded as to why that happened.
But I just used another form of payment and that

(19:38):
went through fine. But yes, people do tend to jump
at the retailer rather than try and think about what
the solutions are. If you don't know what the issue
is at the time, it's not helpful to blame someone
and be aggressive around that. So it was a little
bit disappointing.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Thank you. So much for your time this morning, Carolyn Pleasure.
That was Carolyn Young there from Retail New Zealand. Right
politics is up next year with News Talks, you'd be
It is nine twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Good have you with us, and it's time to talk
politics now and I'm joined by News Talks HEDB political
editor Jason Wall's. Good morning, Jason, Good morning.

Speaker 9 (20:20):
How are you.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I'm really good. Thanks. Hey, Look where are we at
with the darling Tana saga?

Speaker 10 (20:26):
Oh listen, we're in a bit of limbo land at
the moment. I'll run you through what happened this week
and then what gets what happens next week after that. Basically,
she gave an interview with One News on Monday, basically
just kind of saying that pushing back on that report
that came out this week about the alleged migrant exploitation
at her husband's company, really really putting the idea out

(20:50):
there that she didn't have anything to do with it
and it was all her husband. So she was really
pushing back on that idea of it. But the more
interesting thing from my perspective is what happens next. She
is not sounding like she's going anywhere. Of course, we
all know that she is resigned from the Green Party,
or more accurately, she is made to resign from the
excuse me, from the Green Party. And now we've faced

(21:11):
the question about what happens next in her political future
because she's still technically an independent MP. So the Greens
have this this choice to make. They either what's called
waker jump Darli in Tana, which means that they write
to the Speaker and say she is no longer with
the party that she came into parliament with, therefore she
should no longer be an MP and he kicks her out,

(21:33):
or they let her stay on as an independent. Essentially,
they do nothing. And this is a hard choice for
them because they fought tooth and nail against that waker
jumping legislation, so turnaround and use it now would make
them look like hypocrites. So in the meantime, Darley in
Tana has indicated that she is staying on. She hasn't
explicitly said so, but she's been using phrases like she's

(21:53):
the only MP that can blend til Mary politics and
science all together in the House and she's taking soundings
from Hapu and Ewe about whether she should stay And
in addition to this, she's also talked to the Clerk
of the House about where her office would be should
she stay on as an independent MP. So it really
looks like she's in here for the long haul and

(22:15):
we'll find out this week actually on Tuesday when Parliament
starts sitting, if she walks into the House and takes
a seat and where she sits. So all eyes on
the debating chamber on Tuesday, and.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
I'm sure that a lot of people will be asking
her the Queen is she going to staying, Hey, how
is UIs politics affecting New Zealand? It's all going the UIs,
isn't it.

Speaker 10 (22:36):
It is absolutely all go in the US. And it's
absolutely reverberated here of course, Trumps the attempted assassination on him.
I mean every politician New Zealand kind of came out
and said the same thing that they condemn politics and
all means all politics, because they condemn violence in all
forms when it comes to things like election campaigns. And

(22:59):
it's not really surprised that they've come out and did that,
but more often. I mean, you have to look at
what happened this week in the state of Joe Biden
in and Trump coming out essentially so strongly after that
assassination attempt, it would really look like his election campaign
has given a lot more of a boon, and it
would be looking a lot more likely that we have

(23:19):
President Donald Trump than the President Joe Biden step up.
So that'll obviously have implications on New Zealand. No politician
here are really giving a bob each way in terms
of what they think who they think it should be. Obviously,
the Prime Minister's consistently said he'll work with anyone, so
we'll wait and see what happens then. But we still
got a few months before the US election race, and

(23:40):
it seems to be some whispers that Joe Biden is
reconsidering his political future, so we'll have to wait and
see on that one.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
And as you mentioned, Parliament is back on Tuesday.

Speaker 9 (23:51):
Indeed it is.

Speaker 10 (23:52):
It's been a big long three week recess block, so
I kind of missed them all and I'm sure that
I'm feelings mutual, so there's quite a lot to get through.
I mean, the Prime Minister has just outlied his third
quarterly plan, so he'll be looking to crack into that
one with a big focus on if the structure and
law and order. And we did see yesterday some politicians

(24:15):
touring the first military boot camp for youth offenders, so
that's going to be high on the government's agenda. Of course,
obviously the Darling time and stuff, how that plays out
with the Green Party, and just really just seeing how
it all plays out after being away for so long
and getting into some governance and some post cabinet press

(24:35):
conferences and that sort of thing. So we'll be with
you all week, so keeping her out for there'd be
for the latest update.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
But I can just see you bounding down the hallways now, Jason,
as the politicians go, oh here we go, we back into.

Speaker 10 (24:46):
It, rolling the rise as soon as they see me.
It tends to be how it is lovely.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
To catch up with you. Thank you for your time
and enjoy the rest of your Sunday. It is twenty
two to ten News Talks Heday.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Windles for the best selection of great Greeds.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
He's talk said, thank you for your feedback. This morning.
Darlen Tana has no mandate. She's simply milking US taxpayers.
Greens must use the Act. One text to writes, thank
you very much for that. We've been talking about the
Olympics and someone text to say, so looking forward to
the Olympics, but you've got to check out Mongolia's outfit

(25:27):
for the Olympics. It's gone viral. So of course I
immediately did in the ad break and you were right.
It is absolutely stunning. It is beautiful, embroidered, sort of
sophisticated outfits that reflect their culture. But they don't. They
still look like they've got a kind of a modern
touch them. They just look amazing. So then, of course

(25:50):
you know what I did, ride I thank googled New
Zealand Paris Olympics outfit. You know, it's smart, it's black,
it's safe, it's got some wonderful inside the main blazer
jacket that I don't know. I suppose of sort of

(26:11):
your walk with a bit of movement, you may be
able to see. It also comes with a bucket hat,
of course, so it's yes, you don't want to compare
it to the Mongolian outfit that does look absolutely stunning.
And maybe it is a little bit of you know,
maybe it is time to update our outfit a little bit,

(26:32):
put a little bit more flaring. But really, who cares
what you're wearing. It's all about what happens when you're competing,
isn't it. So thank you very much for your text
on that. We were talking about the crowd strikers well,
and someone said that they paid for an old Ladies
petrol last night due to their card not working in

(26:53):
the gas station wouldn't let them leave because they said
it was theft. It's not the lady's fault, but this
is why everyone should have some cash on them. Thank you, Ben,
that was a very kind thing for you to do.
And I'm sure there were a lot of people are
looking around at strangers asking for help on Friday night,
wondering what on earth was going on? So can't you
hear from you if it is actually still having an

(27:14):
impact on you now?

Speaker 11 (27:17):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (27:17):
And also worth noting this morning as well that it
was the election of course, the mirror election and totally yesterday,
and it looks like Mahi Drysdale will be the new mayor.
It won't be confirmed until Thursday when all the special
votes and all the votes and things have been counted,

(27:37):
I'm not sure it was a huge voter turnout. Also
still waiting to sort of get better information on whether
some of the previous councilors have been re elected back
on the council and totally of course, one of the
commissioners made a comment recently that she would not vote
for them. So it's going to be really interesting to
see the group that has pulled together that Marhi Drysdale

(27:58):
is going to have to pull together because there is
a lot of dissension of local politics. I've been talking
to people in Titron recently and some fear that the
old Guard are very dangerous. Some people really just want
to keep moving forward and dealing with the issues at hand,
So I think made Drysdale might have his work cut
out for him. But congratulations to him and keen to

(28:18):
hear from you. If you are in Totrong. Are you
feeling good about this? Is this positive? Are you feeling
like this is a step forward? Feel free to text anytime.
On ninety two ninety two, it is seventeen to ten
Newstalk there be.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Putting the time questions to the newspeakers. The Mike asking Breakfast.

Speaker 12 (28:36):
Three hundred and eighty one thousand on the main benefit.
Sanctions are also up significantly in the job seeker area.
Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston with there's a
lot of people on the benefit it is.

Speaker 13 (28:46):
And unfortunately the numbers that we were expecting were these
very challenging economic time.

Speaker 12 (28:51):
How many people are on there because it's no fault
of their own versus how many people are on there
because they can't be bothered?

Speaker 13 (28:56):
Well, I think that's the really difficult one. I think
there will be a chunk of them that have got
used to being comfortable there, but I think the majority
really will be in a position that they want to
be in work and the spect that they can take
to improve their chances.

Speaker 12 (29:10):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
Jenuine News Talk sed Be.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
News Talk sed Be.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Right, Well, we were hoping to be joined by Sarah
Calie Ross this morning, a Kiwi Olympian, to talk about
the pressure and what it will be like for the
for our Olympians to be heading to Paris at the
end of this week, and of course metal contentions, but
she seems to have gone about a well. But who
needs an Olympian when we're we have Nathan who we

(29:49):
have torn away, we have torn away from his news
reading duties and getting ready for the for the bulletin.
So I apologize for that, are you? I'm really excited
about the long sittings of the week.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
I'm pumped.

Speaker 14 (30:01):
It's going to be spectacular. Obviously, it's going to be
one of it two weeks where most of the country
is completely sleep deprivee. So you know, if our economy
dives or our production goes down, that we'll put it
down to the Olympics, right because everyone's staying up overnight
every night to watch everything.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
And then of course, you know, without putting a huge
amount of pressure on our athletes, you put on a
medal or two when who cares about the real world?

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Right?

Speaker 15 (30:22):
Oh?

Speaker 14 (30:23):
Exactly, it all just takes a back seat, doesn't it.
If Lisa Carrington is one another gold exactly, and she is.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
One that we are absolutely going to have our eye on.
And it's not just Lisa Carrington.

Speaker 14 (30:31):
Well, yeah, just in the sprint kayaking as well, Amy Fisher,
Amy Fisher Lisa Carrington, who have been battling for world
domination the two kiwis over the last year two years,
and they are likely to gain gold and silver in
the K one five hundred. We just don't know what order.
And it's been fascinating watching the two dual through the

(30:52):
world championships and even national championships, you know, over the
last few months and in the lead up. So those
two would be probably in New Zealand's biggest medal contenders,
and obviously there are several different categories and just sprint
kayaking as well. The Blackfan sevens have been outstanding this year,
won the overall title except for the season ending World
season ending event on the seventh series, so they'd be

(31:13):
up there as well.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Differently, and it's important to note they're starting Thursday. They're
starting a day or two early, aren't they.

Speaker 14 (31:18):
Yeah, they are so yeah. I guess we're straight into
the action, aren't we. And they'll definitely have the eyes
of the country, I suppose if you look too more broadly.
Hamish Kerr would be another one who's just clinched back
to back Diamond League titles exciting.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
I know.

Speaker 14 (31:33):
He posted a season best was two point three to
three meters in Monaco and he's just cleared two minutes
thirty in London to win another Diamond League goal. So
he is in top top form heading into the Olympics.
Missed out on a medal last time, but he'll be
right up there, so he's another big one. Elise Andrews
also track cyclists dominated over the last couple of years,

(31:55):
so she'll be a big hopeful. Hayden Wild triathlete one
bronze in Tokyo. He's been up battling for the World
triathlon title this year, so he's a medal prospect.

Speaker 6 (32:04):
In the pool.

Speaker 14 (32:04):
We've got Lewis Clearburton a fair Weather who both won
championship gold earlier this year. Clear it made the final
and Tokyo of the four hundred individual medley. And then
you've got of course Tom Walsh Jenco girl as well.
They both placed, you know, in the latest Diamond League
event as well, so they'll be in and around with
Tom Walsh the favorite of those two.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Gosh, there's so much, isn't there that we actually do
have a lot of people across the world, and then
there'll be a few that maybe we're not so familiar
with Nathan who might just surprise us with amazing performances.
I do love waking up to those stories. If you
could whip up a few of those, that would be amazing,
I'll do my best. Hey, log I know that here
at News Talks, they'd be the reporters who are going
to be up all night, are bringing all the big

(32:46):
action and the kiwis in action to people live, you know,
eating out of a vending machine at three am in
the morning and surviving on very little sleep. I know
that they've been working really hard for four years to
get to this point or three years. How the athletes
feeling at this point, You know that you guys have
spoken to.

Speaker 14 (33:03):
Yeah, well, they're spread out all over the world. To
be honestly, there's not many of them who are actually
still in New Zealand. Most of them are in various
places around Europe and they're competing in the league. Like obviously,
as I just mentioned, Hamous Kerr and a number of
our track and field athletes are in London at the
moment for the latest Diamond League event. But I suppose
it'll just be jitters leading in. They've done all the preparation,

(33:24):
all the hard work is done. They're just about to
perform on the world stage and have the world's eyes
on them. So it'll just be I guess, settling into
the athletes village we've got. They'll sort of file in
over the next week, will have press conference opportunities with
athletes from each sport sort of over the next week,
so you'll be hearing from a number of the top athletes.
And then the opening ceremony it's overnight next Friday heading

(33:48):
into Saturday, and obviously, as we mentioned, the Black fans
kicking off a day early as well. So it'll be
a fantastic two weeks. I realized we didn't even mention
the likes of Aaron Rautlift lu Lusan soon in the
women's doubles for the tennis.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Golf Lydia coach.

Speaker 14 (34:02):
Yeah, Lydia co will be there, Ryan Fox, Daniel Hellier
who's doing very well at the Open, Champion at the
moment in a type for fifteenth heading into the final
round overnight tonight. So we've got so many athletes in
such good form that it's just going to be the
most spectacular couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
I completely agree, Nathan. Thank you so much for popping
in and giving us just reminding us of the wealth
of incredible talent that New Zealand is sending into the Olympics.
Lots of wonderful names there to be following. Thank you
so much. It is nine to ten News Talks VB.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Deep It simple, It's Sunday, the Sunday Session with Francesca
Rudkine and Wiggles for the best selection of Gregory's News
Talks MB.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Right, David Wallams the book show is coming to New
Zealand at the end of September. He's going to do
shows for kids and one for adults. We're going to
find out what to expect from these shows next, and
we're going to find out why he's teaming up with
his Little Britain collaborator Matt Lucas. Again, it's next here
on News TALKSZB. We are going to finish the hour
with a little bit of music from Missy Elliott. The

(35:04):
song is called the Rain Now. NASA sent this song
to Venus just recently. It took fourteen minutes to travel
one hundred and fifty eight million miles so these giant
radio tars transmitted the song and it was for the
benefit of whatever life forms might have been around or
not to listen to it now if we've haven't heard anything,

(35:27):
there's been no reports or reviews back, but pretty amazing
what they're doing. Apparently, Venus is Elliott, Missy Elliott's favorite planet,
and the transmission was made at the speed of light.
There we go. So if you haven't listened to this,
see how it may have been received in outer space.
This is Missy Elliott. The rain will be Actually you're

(35:48):
with newstalks a b.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Y s smile.

Speaker 16 (35:57):
Otage as well heartache, yes man.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
No, beep beep?

Speaker 17 (36:12):
Who got the keys to the g I'm driving to
three top down loud sound. See my feet give compels
now too, Who would be it be?

Speaker 18 (36:24):
Me?

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Me?

Speaker 17 (36:25):
Me and Timothy like about the rain with a shame.
I got the almor order shine up the same over
to see and try to maintain. I can't stand.

Speaker 16 (36:45):
I pa yes man, no, pa, yes man no, I.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Say yes no.

Speaker 17 (37:03):
I I filled the wind five six, seven, eight nine
till nine ten begins. I sit on the heels like
lord until the rain starts coming down. The Lorento on
the hill, I got my umbrella.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
I thing away.

Speaker 17 (37:20):
The days they fall like something from the Trump I
break up with him before he dumped dump.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
They have me yes, um.

Speaker 16 (37:30):
Yess mountain no I page chess mountain no I page
Yes mountain no I shay shadow chess mountain No I

(37:51):
say share, I pay I page span Hota then kismellin

(38:19):
no cottage chis smell, no yess, smile no chs smill,
no hot page.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francisca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
You just told c be.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
This as a Sunday season. I'm Francesco bud Can with
you until midday. Great to have your company this morning. Yes,
I few have you thoughts that maybe Venus can keep
that song that we played before the end of the news.
Thank you very much for your text and your thoughts
on that right. Bottom bangers, bottom burps and undercrackers. David
Williams A Sure Knows the Way to a Child's Heart.

(39:34):
Since his first book in two thousand and eight, David
has revolutionized books for kids. Forty one best selling box,
fifty six million copies sold, and they've been translated into
fifty five different languages. David has just released yet another book,
this time his first evergraphic novel, but he's also heading
to our shawls with a children's book tour. David Williams
joins me from the UK.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
Good morning, good morning, thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Let's start with the tour. You're doing a tour for
adults and a tour for kids, which is very generous.

Speaker 19 (40:04):
Game tour, it's the same tour, but the kids and
family shows in the daytime and then the one that's
more adult orientated is in the evening. Because I announced
the show for grown ups in the evenings and lots
of messages saying is there's going to be suitable for
my young children, and I thought it would be really

(40:25):
nice to do a special books orientated show because obviously
they have a lot of fans young readers. So so yeah,
family show during the days and evening shows in the nights.
It's not that the evening show is going to be
really really rude, but if you've got an eight year
old who likes my books, it's not quite right with
them because there'll be some adult themes, nothing too rude,

(40:48):
but you know, it's it's they'd have to stay up
very late to sit through the adult show.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Which do you prefer. I wonder whether you've got a
little bit more license with the kids show to have
a bit of fun, to be a bit more ridiculous.

Speaker 19 (41:02):
Well, I'm proud of my books, and it's a thrill
that I've got so many young fans around the world,
and so that will always feel really special to me.
And I think there's more of a sense with kids
that you can try and influence them with positive messages
and things, whereas as adults were all sort of set
in our ways, aren't we and all that goodness has

(41:27):
drained out of us? And I think there is a
sort of atmosphere you get with a room full of
kids that is hard to replicate. Because I go out
on to the audience and I ask the kids, I say,
I'm doing research for my new book, The World's Worst
Children four, And has anyone got a brother or sister
they'd like to nominate to be in the book? Well,

(41:47):
you can imagine, you know, a thousand hands go up
at once, and everyone's leaping up and down their chairs
because they want to say something. And there's something about
when kids get excited that even in the most sort
of I don't know, the biggest shows I've ever done
for grown ups, it's not quite the same as the
shrieking and jumping up and that you get with kids.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Do you take questions from the children?

Speaker 19 (42:11):
Yes, I'm going to take questions on both shows, and
there are prizes for the best questions for the kids,
And yeah, I like I always like there being a
spontaneous element to the show because I think that that's
when you're thinking on your feet and that's sometimes when
you can be at your funniest. And also I think
people know that it's spontaneous, so they know that you

(42:33):
are coming up with it at that moment in time,
and it keeps you on your toes because there's a
danger if you do a show lots of times that
you start to sort of think, oh, okay, it's like
muscle memory. I do this bit, I do that bit.
But even when we did a Little Britain Live Too,
we built in lots of improvisation because we needed to
keep it fresh for us and to keep it funny

(42:55):
for us. So and I just like that anarchic part.
And sometimes people get the better of you with like
funny questions and things like that, which is great. And
sometimes kids come up on the stage and I say,
who's your favorite author, thinking that they might say me
because I'm standing in front of them, But then they
say JK.

Speaker 6 (43:14):
Rowling is that she's not here? Who's your second favorite author?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
You know?

Speaker 19 (43:17):
And I just love that with kids because obviously all
the parents really like it when the kids say silly
things you're asking for really, Yeah, So I look. I
look forward to those parts of the shows very much,
and I think they're necessary because I also think the
audiences want to be part of the show. I mean,
even in you go to comedy clubs and things, people
always shouting things out. People always want to be part

(43:40):
of the show. So I'm very happy to accommodate that.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
I love it. You've recently released Estrochimp, Did We Really?
Which is your first, I should say, your first graphic
novel or sort of more along the lines of a
comic book and things. What lead you to this? Why
did you sort of make a bit of a change
with this book worst book.

Speaker 19 (44:02):
I'd had this idea for a long time. I wanted
to write something about all the animals that were sent
into space because it's quite an interesting story. It starts
with fruit flies, believe it or not. And then there's
the ones that people know about, which is the dog,
like the chimpanzee ham from America, and I thought, even

(44:24):
the French sent a cat into space, which sounds very French,
And I thought, okay, so the real stories, you know,
sometimes tint with a bit of tragedy because the animals
didn't make it home safely. But I thought, if I
create a sort of imaginary world where some of the
same animals sent into space and it's about their adventures,
you know, like one hundred years into the future, they've

(44:45):
all survived and they're all sort of battling each other.
And because it was set in space and because it
was animals, I was really thinking of it in terms
of like an animated movie. And I think the closest
you can get to that is a comic book or
graphic novel you ever want to call it. So it
felt completely right. I mean, sometimes the form that already

(45:06):
dictates the form a bit. You know, my new book
is a murder mystery. It just got one outstake called
Super Sleuth, and so that really feels like a novel.
You know, because it's in the it's in the realms
of obviously not as good ass, but it takes its
cue from Sharlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, so it felt right.
But this one's space and animals and lots of action.

(45:28):
It just felt right for to be as visual as possible.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
And beautifully illustrated.

Speaker 6 (45:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (45:35):
I didn't do those, but thank you Adam Stower has
done a brilliant job illustrating it. And also, I feel,
because I've been pretty prolific and written lots of books,
I always feel like I want to give the audience
something as fresh as as I possibly can, So changing
the form really helps that. I like to have original stories,

(45:58):
you know, I'm scared of repeating myself because I'm actually
on like book forty one or something like that. I'm like, Okay,
you need to go into the deep recesses of your imagination,
and you need to find different ways to tell a story,
and you need to make sure you're not going over
our ground.

Speaker 6 (46:16):
So yes, I like.

Speaker 19 (46:18):
I mean, I'd never written a murder mystery before. Spaceboy
is set in nineteen sixties America. I've got short stories
in the World's Worst Children. I've got Beast of Buckingham Palace,
which is in the future, you know. And I feel
like some of these sort of I don't know, almost
like challenges I set myself bring out the best in me.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Which one did you write? In a Venus gel jail cell?

Speaker 6 (46:44):
All of them? All of them?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I rowing No.

Speaker 19 (46:47):
I just wrote, basically, was I brought my wrong passport
to Italy. I was on a trip to Venice and
it wasn't discovered until I arrived at Venice, and so
they basically canted me off and locked me up in
this shell cella. But the lucky thing was I was

(47:07):
allowed to keep my hand luggage with me, and I
had my computer, and I was in there for seven hours.
Only one point did they come in and say would
you like a bottle of water? That was it, And
they were quite even though I clearly wasn't like going
to cause any trouble, you know, I wasn't smuggling anything
into the country or anything. But I think they rather enjoyed,

(47:29):
you know, making my life quite difficult. So and so
I thought, Okay, don't worry about this, David. You've got
seven hours on your own to write, which is what
I did. I knew it would be a long time
because I knew they had to send me back on
the next plane, which wasn't until late that night. So
and so, yes, I got deported, but before that I
got to write quite a lot of astrochin.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
But I mean people often say, you know, have you got.

Speaker 19 (47:53):
Somewhere to write? Like Roldal had a writing shirt, And
I think the main thing is you want to be alone.
And I've never felt more alone.

Speaker 6 (48:01):
In prisonself Italy.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Well, if you're struggling next time on the next book,
you know where you need to be, don't you. Encouraging
reluctant readers is a really big goal for you, isn't it.

Speaker 19 (48:14):
Yes, I'm going to go into schools up and down
the United Kingdom and if I find myself somewhere I
wouldn't normally be because I'm working there. I was thinking,
let's find a school, you know, because it's all very well,
I live in London just to go to schools in London,
but I want to go to schools everywhere. And I
asked the publishers, let's find it underprivileged school, because again

(48:35):
you don't want to preach the converted. You know, of
private school kids are more likely to have access to books,
and in fact, they certainly are. And I go into
schools and you know, it's fantastic that there's lots of
kids read, but there's many that don't. And I feel
like if we don't, if us authors don't grab their
imaginations when they're eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, chances are

(48:57):
they're never going to read as grown up.

Speaker 6 (48:59):
So they're going to miss out on a lot.

Speaker 19 (49:00):
Because reading isn't just about reading more books, you know,
it's it's store are about empathy, and they teach us
important lessons. So I think that. So yeah, I've always thought,
let's try and reach those reluctant readers. So I started
off with books like Boy in the Dress and Mister
Stink that you know very much novels, And then I thought,

(49:23):
when I went into school in Glasgow in Scotland and
there was some sort of grumpy boys at the back
who hated books, I thought, I want to write a
book that will get you reading. And that's why I
came up with the World's Worst Children. It was halfway
between a comic book and you know, one of the
books I've already produced, and I thought, let's make it

(49:44):
as visual as possible. Let's make it as silly as possible.
There's no big important themes like there are in some
of my stories. It's just fun and that's why I
came up with those books. And you know, most days
some parent comes up to me in the street and says,
thank you for your books because I couldn't get my

(50:05):
child to read before they read one of yours. So
I sort of I feel like that's an important You know,
that for me is an important part of what I
want to do because there are I know, much greater
works of literature out there than mine. But I feel like,
hopefully my books are the ones that will get kids

(50:26):
reading and then they're going to go on to more
challenging work.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
I mentioned to my son yesterday that I was going
to interview to you today. He's about to turn eighteen,
and he was so excited and he started reminiscing about
your books and things, and I thought, that is so lovely.
He may no longer be a captive audience, but he's
still a big fan. That's pretty cool, isn't it.

Speaker 19 (50:49):
Well, it is very cool, But I think you never
forget the books that you read as a kid and
what they meant to you, especially if you weren't a
voracious reader. But you never forget the first book that
you read all by yourself, and the ones that made
you laugh, and the ones that got you know, got
you reading more and more and more. So yeah, I'm
I mean, I have forgotten the books that I read
and loved as a kid, and I still treasure them

(51:11):
and sometimes I reread them, and being the father of
an eleven year old boy, I have had the chance
to read them all again and read lots of ones
that I'd missed because maybe they were published you know,
a bit later or than you know, after my childhood,
or I just missed them because you often think, oh, yeah,
I know, Peter Pan, I've seen the Disney movie, but

(51:32):
have you actually read the novel An Alice in Wonderland?
Is when that's very familiar to all of us, but
not all of us have read.

Speaker 6 (51:40):
So I have a lot of pleasure. I really love.

Speaker 19 (51:43):
Reading children's books and especially sharing them with my son.
So and obviously, you know, there's a lot of nostalgia
there when I'm returning to books that I loved.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
You've got so much going on at the moment, But
one thing you are doing is working on a new
show with your Little Britain coaster met Lucas. Now Little
Britain isn't coming back. This is new material.

Speaker 19 (52:04):
Yes, it's new because we wanted. When we did Comply
with Me, which followed Little Britain, we had a whole
new cast of characters and it was exciting to do that,
you know, and so that is what we're we're doing
at the moment is creating a whole new cast of characters,
completely new sketches. And it's quite freeing that because you're

(52:25):
you know, you're not trying to emulate something. You're not
trying to sort of guess second guess what people might
want to see. You're just following your own instincts and
trying to create something original. And when you find something
that you believe in, it's very exciting. I mean, because
the books I write on my own and so the

(52:46):
downside of that is it's solitary, you know. And when
I write with Matt is that we meet up, we
have a chat about what we saw on TV last night,
We you know, eat some cross arms. Eventually we get
around to doing some work, you know, and then I'm
sort of trying to make him laugh.

Speaker 6 (53:04):
He's trying to make me laugh.

Speaker 19 (53:05):
If we're laughing together, think oh we might have something
that other people might laugh at too. So it's quite
a pleasurable. Well, it's a more pleasurable experience because it's
sociable because they've got someone to have lunch with.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Maybe you two both need to be in a jailt
cell together. Finally, just looking at everything that you are doing,
do you love the creative license your career gives you
in all these different areas.

Speaker 19 (53:31):
Yeah, I think that's what probably binds everything together, is
being creative. And I feel very privileged to, you know,
to have a job that I love. And you often think,
you know, when you're starting out, you're going to run
out of ideas, but luckily it hasn't happened yet. And
also I think I feel very lucky because I've had

(53:52):
different stages to my career. It's been sketch comedy, had
ten years as a judge on Britain's Got Talent, sort
of like as a TV personality I suppose, and a
children's author as well, and I'm sort of all of
these have been very excited, a very exciting, but I
do feel sometimes or what's the next chapter.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
We shall all wait and see. Thank you so much
for your time. Really lovely to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (54:14):
Thank you and lovely to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
The David Williams Book Show is coming to New Zealand
at the end of September. Tickets are on sale now
and you can also pick up his newest book, Astrochimp,
in all good bookstores. You're with News talks eb it
is twenty two past ten.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Grab a cover.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wikels for
the best selection of great breeds Used Talks' be.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Voting closes today for the Wickles twenty twenty four Kids
Top fifties. If you or the young people in your
life have some favorite kids books, cast your vote today.
The new list will be unveiled in September tomorrow, though
the new wick Call's Top one hundred is announced. This
is a list of the one hundred books most beloved
by readers around the country, and they're voted in their thousands,

(54:59):
So each year there's a lot of interest in what's
made it to the top and which books are making
in appearance for the first time. It all becomes it's
clear tomorrow. You can check it out online or in store,
and while you there pick up the brand new Wickles
recommends Catalog fall to the brim with their recommendations of
the best in stall right now with box games, Puzzles, toys,
gorgeous stationary gifts and the Wickles Top one hundred and

(55:22):
Kids Top fifty. There really is something for everyone at Wickles.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Entertainment time. Now we're joined by Steve Newill, editor at
Slecks dot co dot m zeg.

Speaker 7 (55:49):
Good morning, good morning, little touch of t Rex there
which infuses the creepiest and most successful horror of twenty
twenty four, Long Legs, which is in cinemas now.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
It has done brilliantly.

Speaker 9 (56:04):
It did.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
It had a better opening weekend then Fly to the Moon,
starring two of the biggest stars, Channing Tatum and Scarlett Johansson.

Speaker 7 (56:12):
I think the time's right for a horror like there.
So Long Legs is built on the It's built on
the chassis of Silence of the Lambs. It's a story
about a young female FBI agent tracking a serial killer
and kind of look and feel it's very very similar
to that film and by design although the director Osgar
Perkins acknowledges if he'd just made if he just remade

(56:34):
Silence of the Lambs, he would have been put in
movie jail. It's used to tell a story of satanic themes,
of horror elements that are much more sort of supernaturally
focused than a thriller would be. But aside from what
it is, I guess the reason it has resonated so
well is it's had a great marketing campaign and a

(56:55):
big part of that was withholding any images or appearances
of its star. Nicholas Cage plays the titular long legs
in this film, So.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Was there designed to be that you went and then
you were surprised he was in it, like a lot
of people will go and would have been surprised.

Speaker 7 (57:11):
He's all over his creditor poster. But we've only seen
the true star of the film, Michah Monroe, somewhat something
of a scream queen. She emerged with The Great Indie
Horror It follows a while back, and is gearing up
for a sequel to that film soon. But yeah, but
they withheld Cage's appearance for a reason, and in one

(57:33):
of the great kind of horror marketing moves. I love
a good kind of cheesy horror marketing campaign. There was
a clip sent out of Michaeh Monroe's first encounter with
Nicholas Cage while he was in his while he was
in character and in costume. They only have one scene
together in this film. It's lit of one of those
films where the hero and the villain are kind of

(57:55):
kept apart for a long part of the running time.
But the clip they used as the marketing purported to
have a heartbeat tracker on her and met her pulse
as she went in and encountered him for the first time. Like, clearly,
there's something up the film's sleeve. You know, it's not
gonna You're not going to be a genius to figure
out there's something about the way he looks and sounds special.

(58:17):
But what we get in this, in this horror is
a place for Nicholas Cage to go really ott in
a way that I guess we'll sort of come to
expect from him in films now, But it kind of
works here, and it's all the scarier for it because
you're kind of faced with the character who if someone
could behave like that in a very kind of realistically
grounded film.

Speaker 6 (58:37):
What are they capable of?

Speaker 7 (58:38):
And what's the film capable of?

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Horror? Marketing can be really clever, and I can remember
the bleir Witch project. You're probably too young, but you know,
marketing that is as is it real? Is it not?
As it found footage? Is it not? And they had
a media screening and a little old cinema up a
very long driveway, maybe an avandale somewhere in Auckland. And
when we came out, we're all a bit freaked out,

(59:00):
still not sure what we've seen. And as we were
leaving down the driveway there were all these rustles in
the bushes and things like that. I actually can't remember
to this day whether it was pan or not, but
there was just a whole group of reviewers and media
people just screaming, just running down this driveway, just absolutely
freaked out. Like they just did such a good job
of it.

Speaker 7 (59:19):
It was brilliant.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
I'm still one of the best. Oh you're not thinking
you're not going to join me on that one?

Speaker 7 (59:25):
On Blue Witch?

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Yeah, even really clear idea.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
Even as a ticket buyer, you know, we weren't sure
what we were watching. Yeah, yeah, great fake out interesting
to see the cast of that film recently kind of going, hey,
why haven't you looked after us were so critical to
the success of this film. We didn't just acted that
we kind of made your movie. Carve us off a bed.
It's made tons of money.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
A lot of money. Can we renegotiate our deal? Hey,
there is a new Ancient Roman spectacle on Talley.

Speaker 7 (59:56):
Yeah, this is those about. This is a starring Sir
Anthony Hopkins. It's directed by disaster movie maestro Roland Imerick.
So to kind of give you a sense of this
kind of scale that they're playing with. Set in ancient
Rome at the time of the construction of the Flavian
Amphitheater aka the Coliseum, So it's sort of a time

(01:00:16):
where they are transitioning from chariot racing to also having
a bit more gladiatorial spectacle to distract the masses. This
is interesting kind of swords and sandals show to sit
alongside your games of your Games of Thrones or whatever,
and that it is sort of a bit more concerned
with well, not like everyday people, but not sort of

(01:00:37):
at the top tier of power so much. And it's
introduced in a way that kind of feels like it'stuting
to watch a casino type film where we get a
kind of narration from this guy walking walking into work.
He's a bookie, and it kind of feels like this
is ancient Rome portrayed as Vegas for seconds that kind
of sets but of the time. But it's it's pretty

(01:00:58):
it's pretty much in the in the traditional game of thrones.
Lots of sex position and intrigue and violent and togas.
So you know what you're getting in for there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
And where is that?

Speaker 7 (01:01:11):
That's on Prime video?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
On Prime video, Thank you so much, Steve. So The
horror movie, if you've got the legs for it, is
called Long Legs Are the Cinemas.

Speaker 7 (01:01:20):
Now go see this with a crowd. It plays so
it really creeps me out. The combination of thriller and
kind of satanic panic in this film and its performances. Yeah,
really really slow building. Dread this film.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
And if the Tigers and Sandals is your thing, the
drama is called Those About to Die and you can
catch that on Prime Thanks so much, Steve. It is
what we are. Twenty seven to eleven News Talks at b.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on news Talks
at b and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Time to look for our science study of the weekend.
I'm joined by doctor Michelle Dickinson. And more research has
been done on retired rugby players.

Speaker 20 (01:01:59):
Yeah, we've touched on this a few times over the
last few years, but this is some really big research
that sadly isn't good news. But it's the news that
we are sort of knew was coming when it comes
to rugby players. And we know that rugby is a
big Kiwi sport, whether it's union or league. We love
our rugby, but we also know that a lot of
head knocks is probably not good for us. And so

(01:02:21):
this is looking at some very specific proteins that are
being formed in their brain. So it's published in the
Journal of Molecular Sciences. It's open source. You can go
and have a read if you're interested. And they basically
took thirty retired male athletes, mostly rugby league and union players,
who had had at least five concussions during their career.

(01:02:44):
They then compared them to twenty six retired sports people
who were very similar in build and everything else, but
had not had concussion in their career. So from non
contact sports, and they just did some blood testing between
them and they found a significant difference. Now this is
important because we've always gone we're pretty sure that these
head knocks are causing some things like motor neuron disease

(01:03:06):
Alzheimer's in later life, and so the a's what they
found is proteins in their blood that indicate brain damage
in all of those athletes who had concussions during their careers.
So they're looking at very specific proteins. One of them
is called t tau and one of is called TAUPE,
one of which they were high levels elevated levels in

(01:03:28):
the players who'd had concussion, and we know that both
of these proteins play a role in the development of
Alzheimer's and motor neurone disease.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
They also found.

Speaker 20 (01:03:37):
Low levels of what's called a retinoid transport protein, which
we know is a protein really important for development and
functioning of the brain. So very clear evidence with I mean,
it's a relatively small group, but it's a very specific
group of people that find that there are specific biomarkers
that are indicating and could maybe help to predict whether

(01:03:58):
or not your high head contact sports career is going
to have a significant effect on your brain health later
on in your life. Now, what these researchers are really
pushing is going, look, we know what these markers are. Now,
please please please have a system so that if you
know you've had a few head knocks, get your blood

(01:04:18):
monitored and know that there's a way that there's going
to be a system that you can have an early diagnosis.
You can see if you're going to be at more
risk of developing Alzheimer's on your own disease, and then
we can get treatments to you much much faster before
you start to have symptoms of some of these horrific diseases.
And I think it's a really important cry. I'd really

(01:04:40):
like to raise the awareness of it. We have so
many of our kids who play rugby in school and
we're not looking at the head knocks, we're not counting them.
And this is really clear it's got a significant effect.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
So is the suggestion to have it when you're younger,
implying or when you're retired to be chicking the blood.

Speaker 20 (01:04:56):
They suggest when you're retired. I go one step further
and go, look, it's easy to get a blood test.
You know, specifically what the biomarkers and the proteins are
that you're looking for, or why don't we just start
doing this now rather than waiting until it's too late
and then trying to deal with somebody who already has symptoms,
who's so late in the development of this disease there's

(01:05:17):
very little we can do for them, whereas actually both
of these diseases is there are new treatments coming out
now that can really help to minimize the symptoms. So
Journal of Molecular Science is anybody who's interested in things like,
you know, if you've done a rugby sport and you've
had a few head knocks in your life, what are
you worried about? Have a look and let's raise the
awareness about maybe being proactive.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Thank you so much, Michelle. Right school is back tomorrow
for most I can hear a sigh of relief across
the country. Mike then Elsen, here's some lunchbox inspiration for
your NIX. Here on these talks, you'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
There's no bit of way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
U's talks.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
It be joining me now is Mike? Then to Elson,
our resident chief, good morning, good morning you the school
holidays barely Billy something honesty.

Speaker 21 (01:06:11):
Oh, I just had a week with him, and because
Be was on the farm doing the classes, so I
took the opportunity to get away and I had them
for a whole week, and all I heard for an entire.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Week was can I have?

Speaker 21 (01:06:26):
Can I have?

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Can I have?

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Did you get a thank you? Occasionally?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
No, because all they got back.

Speaker 21 (01:06:34):
Was no, no, okay, great, yes, yes, no, no, we
had a great time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
We had a great time.

Speaker 21 (01:06:40):
We're down the tow pawn a bit of riding, bit
of dre chilling, bit of walking.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
It was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Oh good, good to hear them. But I love the
way that you're thinking about tomorrow and everybody then going,
oh my gosh, hong on, I go full of lunch
throng when and so you've got some pumpkin cupcakes for
us this afternoon?

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Delicious?

Speaker 21 (01:07:00):
Yeah, because myself, like many other parents, will we be
up you know before I think we get up at
like court sex and then it's like from quards to
sex to maybe quarter past six or quarter pasts maybe
half past six, it's that frantic search of what are
we going to put into their lunchboxes?

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
And I don't know.

Speaker 21 (01:07:17):
I should be the one that's the super organized one
that's telling everyone, now, you've got to get organized the
night before. But it doesn't always happen by that. So
I thought I'd do I'll do a recipe. Which are
these little pumpkin cupcakes? They could also be pumpkin muffins.
Reason bean is they are super easy to make, the
super tasty, the super affordable. You can buy a whole

(01:07:38):
pumpkin at the moment two bucks. They'll last at the
fridge for at least the week. So you make them today,
for instance, so you can put them into their lunchbox
on Friday. Just keep just keeping them in the fridge.
You can make meg ones, you can make little ones
so easy peasy. This one makes eight rather large ones.
So turn your other and on quite hot one hundred
and ninety degrees. And then what you want to do

(01:08:00):
is you want to combine a tablespoon or baking powder,
three quarters of kapp of plain powder, flame plain flour,
one teaspoon of cinnamon, one teaspoon of baking soda, and
half a cup of raw sugar. Combine that together, and
then take two eggs. Crack those guys in and then
give them a good mix. And then comes the all
important pumpkin. So I got two cups of grated pumpkin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
They go in. Half a cup of vegetab oil.

Speaker 21 (01:08:26):
It might sound like a lot, but what the vegetable
oil does is it keeps them moist and keeps them
soft all week long. Half a cup of chopped nuts.
They can be walnuts, they can be hazel nuts. Pop
those guys in, and then half a maybe half a
cup caught it a cup of raisins. Pop those and
combine it all. Take a baking tray or line some

(01:08:46):
cupcake molds with your little cupcake dishes, and then fill
those up. It will make eight rather large ones this mix,
so you can spread it out and go sixteen small,
it's up to you. And then fire them in the
oven one hundred and ninety degrees. They're going to take
twenty to twenty five minutes, and then after they pull
them out, let them cool down. And if you want,
there is an icing mix therefore you and honestly, the

(01:09:07):
icing will probably cost more than the actual cupcakes themselves,
so you could just leave you icing off if you
want to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
I love it. Thank you so much, Mike. Well well
done for getting to the end of the holidays. Another
term ahead, so no, what's this?

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Number three?

Speaker 21 (01:09:24):
Is one more after this.

Speaker 8 (01:09:25):
Isn't it?

Speaker 15 (01:09:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Almost anyway, anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Well done. Like of course, we'll talk next week. Of
course you can get that recipe at good from scratch
dot co dot in z or at Newstalk zb dot
co dot in z fod slash Sunday. Of course, all
our interviews and recipes and everything will hit up onto
the website. You'll be able to find them there throughout
the day to day. I hope you have survived the
holidays a bit like Mike probably. I'm sure you had

(01:09:53):
a lovely quality week as well, or two worth the kids,
or maybe you've just been doing the big juggle. I
know that a lot of grandparents always steep up in
the holidays as well, so the big thank you to
them for the part that they play. It is a
fourteen to eleven News talksb.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Winkles for the best selection of great reeds news.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
Talk and natural path Eron O'Hara joins us now in
a wellness segment. Good morning, Good morning. Are we hearing
a lot more about autoimmune conditions these days?

Speaker 22 (01:10:26):
Yeah, autoimmune conditions seem to be on the rise, and
you know, there's a lot of questions why are they
on the rise and why are they becoming so much
more prevalent. Research is showing one in five people have
the chance of developing an autoimmune condition. And there's so
many different triggers that are influencing whether you get an

(01:10:47):
autoimmune condition or not. And it's not necessarily whether you
live just a healthy lifestyle, because there's so many factors
in this, and a lot of it is genetic predisposition
and whether your environment then leads that switch turning on
and then you get these autoimmune conditions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
So what are some of these autoimmune.

Speaker 22 (01:11:07):
Yeah, so there are actually over one hundred different disorders
that are classified as autoimmune, and autoimmune diseases are a
group of illnesses that are where your immune system mistakenly
attacks your own body tissues, and so it's your body
basically attacking itself. And so to get that to calm
down and come into more like a remission state. It

(01:11:31):
is all about how you manage it, and that's what
most of the practitioners, whether it's your doctor, specialists or
naturopaths work a lot in this area. Is all about
keeping it in that stable state where it's not getting
triggered off and your body's not creating these flare ups
where there's a lot of inflammation in the body. Some
of the things that are triggering these autoimmune conditions. It's

(01:11:54):
not just genetic, but also environment is playing a big factor,
and there's some really interesting studies around environment and the
changes in environment over the years, how we've got so
much more pollution. There's also a lot more toxins. The
other triggers can be illness, and there was an interesting
study around COVID nineteen and then getting triggered off with

(01:12:18):
an autoimmune condition after having an infection, and that's a
really common trigger for the start of an autoimmune condition.
And sometimes we basically don't know what triggers it off,
and you can be doing everything right and suddenly it
just pops out out of the blue, and that makes
it actually quite tricky to manage because you might be
already doing a lot of good stuff for your health

(01:12:40):
and still have a condition that you've got to manage
ongoing because it will be sitting there usually ongoing. But
there's some things we can do. And one of the
main ones I always look at is nutrition. First, there
was you know, there's studies done around the Western diet
and how Western countries do have more autoimmune conditions.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
So looking at.

Speaker 22 (01:13:03):
Your diet and how you can bring it back to
more whole foods diet eliminate some of these ultra processed foods.
Also trigger foods that might be causing more flare ups,
which for some people can be gluten, can be dairy,
can be foods that create information, so things like night
shade vegetables can be triggers for some people with autoimmune conditions.

(01:13:24):
Also looking at your gut health, and that's where I
always like to do, using microbio mapping testing so I
can see what's going on in the gut because there
are particular bacteria that are related to autoimmune conditions and
they can be kind of like the switch for the
autoimmune condition to turn on. And that might be something
like citro bacteria finati, which is commonly related to arthritis,

(01:13:48):
or something like clipsilia, which is a really common one
that would also trigger off autoimmune conditions, and that might
be doing a full gut plan to rebalance the microbiome
to help eliminate these these bacteria that might be triggering
off the autoimmune and rebuilding the bacteria back in to
the gut, or also managing that inflammation, which could be

(01:14:10):
looking at turmeric, which yes, you can eat turmeric, but
usually you'll need something extra like a cucumanoid kind of
based supplement that is going to help with managing the inflammation.
Also managing your immune system because obviously it's an overactive
immune system function, so managing that making sure we're not
overstimulating the immune system because that would make the autoimmune

(01:14:33):
condition worse. And also just managing that inflammation through things
like buzzwalia.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Or maybe PA.

Speaker 22 (01:14:41):
So a few supplements can be helpful, not all just supplements,
but also looking at your lifestyle and how you're kind
of putting that all together is how you can get
a really good balance and keeping them autoimmune condition in
that sort of stable remission state where it's not causing
big flare ups and your body can just function as
normal from day to day. And sometimes you need to

(01:15:02):
medications thrown in the mix as well. But it's all
about keeping the back balance and just kind of looking
at all different angles at how you manage your autoimmune.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Condition and working out if you can those triggers. Makes
a big difference, doesn't it. Absolutely, Thank you so much
erin appreciate all that. It is seven to eleven News
Talks EDB grab a cover.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great breens
Used Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
EDB rightI Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Coming up after the News and Sport, which is next
year on News Talks dB. We've got Australian trained lawyer,
court reporter and author Lucier Osborne Crowley. She was one
of only four reporters allowed in the courtroom daily for
the Gallaine Maxwell trial. We all know the outcome, but
the trial raised a lot of issues around the prosecutor's
case and how the justice system treats the victims of

(01:15:51):
sexual abuse, and Lucia has written about this in her
latest book, The Lasting Harm. So she is with me
to talk about what it was like to be inside
that courtroom for those five weeks. We're going to finish
with a little bit of music from Vertigo by Griff Uh.
This is a well. Griff is a UK rising singer songwriter.

(01:16:12):
She's made big bounds and gains in the last few years,
going from self produced debut mixtape all the way to
opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley Stadium on the ERRS Tour.
Her debut album, Vertigo is out now. If you're a
fan Heaven, listen.

Speaker 5 (01:16:27):
You want to change your I that I could be
the one boom. I'm just some cool of things.

Speaker 23 (01:16:34):
Before I thought maybe I could fix you too.

Speaker 8 (01:16:37):
I wantedn't ask you for a last time. I was
just asking you to take life and I wanted too
much to usk. You're scared. That's vertical.

Speaker 15 (01:16:50):
You wanted usc secual, you run away, that's atual.

Speaker 5 (01:16:55):
You scared a lot?

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
Well will you felt alive?

Speaker 23 (01:17:00):
That's nical. You felt secure? That's called couldn't take the tea.
That's Mexico. You're scared a lot, we all said, and
then you do. You'll lead to paisc only and you
think you love your flve that's happen.

Speaker 8 (01:17:19):
You'll hides that's why go you a lie go see.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
So you're like, that's tellsible.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
It's scared a lot?

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
We are well all.

Speaker 15 (01:17:33):
Well, you scared hurts that's vhotco your wan lights go
see shore, you run away, that's touching.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Go you scared a lot? Well line real, well, aren't real.
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wickles for
the best selection of great reeds u S talks.

Speaker 15 (01:18:02):
It be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Good to have you with us. This is a Sunday session.
I'm Francesca. Id can with you until midday. Coming up
this now, we're going to get Jason Pine's take on
the All Blacks performance against Fiji yesterday. Joan is going
to review Karen Slaughter's latest thriller, and Megan's got an
idea of how we can help out our hospow industry
and get a deal on a meal. It's coming up
here in the next hour right. In December twenty twenty one,

(01:18:32):
Gilain Maxwell was convicted and sentenced for her role in
Jeffrey Epstein's abuse of four girls. One of only four
reporters allowed into the courtroom daily was UK based Australian
trained lawyer and court reporter Lucia Osborne Crowling. Lucier's expertise
at the trial and case have been widely used in
the media and is now the source of the book.

(01:18:52):
It's called The Lasting Harm. Lucia Osborne Crowley joins me
now from the UK. Good morning, Lucia, good morning.

Speaker 11 (01:18:59):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Thank you for having me? Oh, thank you so much
for being with us. Now, look, tell me how did
you manage to get enter this courtroom because this was
a there was a huge amount of global attention on
this trial.

Speaker 9 (01:19:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:19:13):
Absolutely, and the answer is with great difficulty. I had
to line up, you know, about midnight one am every
day of the trial in order to be Basically there
are only four reporters allowed in and it was first come,
first served, so you literally had to be one of
the first four in line at eight am when they
opened the doors. And there was no shortcut to that.

(01:19:34):
There was no It wasn't like you reserved a seat
on day one and that you had that seat for
five and a half weeks. Every day for five and
a half weeks, I had to line up and so
by the end, actually it was verdict day. I didn't
know this at the time, but by verdict day I
decided to just not go back to the hotel at all.
So the earliest I got there was seven pm. When
I left the courtroom, I just sat outside and stayed

(01:19:55):
there all night.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
That is quite a commitment. What what was it like,
Lucia being in the room.

Speaker 5 (01:20:03):
It was amazing. It was definitely worth it.

Speaker 11 (01:20:06):
I mean, amazing is a strange word to use, but
I use it in the kind of literal sense, in
the fact that it really is completely different being in
the room than it is kind of watching from afar.
And so I'm really glad that I followed through with
that commitment because it did It does give you a
completely different perspective. I mean, being in the room with

(01:20:26):
the victims when they testified is completely different from from
trying to cover this even from one of the overflow
rooms or you know, kind of watching the global coverage.
That was the most important thing to me. I got
to see the victims, you know, be right up close
as they were testifying, and also see the jury react
to them. That was really important to me as well.

(01:20:47):
And of course, you know, I sat a foot or
two away from Galaine herself for those five and a
half weeks, and that was very, very interesting because she's
She's quite an alarming person to share a space with
for that long.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Did Geline make any contact with you, Lucia.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
She did.

Speaker 11 (01:21:07):
She wasn't allowed to speak to us, so but she did.
She still managed to kind of communicate with me. She
made a lot of eye contact with me. She winked
at me once. She drew a picture of me at
one point, which was very unsettling. She had a like
her legal powern just a biro and she just kind
of drew a sketch of me and showed it to me,
which was a very strange kind of power move, I think,

(01:21:29):
because you know, she felt powerless in that situation, and we,
as the press, were watching her, and she'd recognized by
then that I'd been there every day, and she just
it's like she wanted me to know that she was
she was able to watch me as well. So that
was very very weird. I mean, she just glared at
me while drawing, and I didn't know what she was doing,
and then she showed me that it was a drawing

(01:21:50):
of me. Yeah, I can understand how that would be unnerving.
One of the I mean, look, a lot of things
struck me reading your book, but the one thing that
strikes you when you're reading about the trial on your
book is that there are only four victims.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
Tastifying. Why only four victims?

Speaker 11 (01:22:08):
Yeah, it's a great question, and it's one I imagine
I'll spend a lot, a lot more investigative reporting hours
trying to answer because I haven't definitively answered it yet.
Because as you go through the book, you find out
that I meet people in the years following the trial
who desperately wanted to testify but were turned away by

(01:22:29):
the US government and the Department of Justice. And I
don't know why that is. They didn't give the victims
a good explanation. They didn't give me a good explanation
when I put those allegations to them. So, you know,
it was a question we asked ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
In the press gallery.

Speaker 11 (01:22:44):
We said, you know, why they're only four, because we
know that there are at least one hundred but probably
you know, many, many, many more than that victims, And
I know at least too who were desperate to testify.
And so the answer is, I don't know. For some reason,
this trial was orchestrated to be very, very narrow. They

(01:23:06):
kept it to a small number of victims. My suspicion
is that they really wanted a conviction. They had really
messed up by letting Jeffrey die in jail and get
out of a trial, and they wanted to ensure a
conviction and therefore keep it as narrow as possible, and
that's incredibly unfair on the victims who wanted to testify
and we're turned away.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
What do you want people to understand about sexual abuse
and the impact on the victim?

Speaker 11 (01:23:31):
Great question. So what I really really want this book
to do is to convey the effects of this kind
of abuse on the day to day life of the victim.
Because what I know, what I think from seeing coverage
of sexual abuse, especially when there's a kind of sensationalized aspect,

(01:23:52):
you know, or celebrities involved, we just love to focus
on perpetrators. We love to be to kind of focus
our gays on them and why they do what they do,
and that takes away oxygen from the victims, because you know,
colum menschers are precious and airtime is precious, and so
even if we don't think we're doing it all the

(01:24:13):
time we spend kind of obsessing about perpetrators is necessarily
taking time away from the stories of the victims. So
what I wanted to do was to give a kind
of minute by minute, day by day or account of
what these victims' lives actually look like. And from what
they have told me, you know they have not been
given that opportunity before, because no one has given them

(01:24:34):
enough space to do that. So basically, what I want
people to take away is an actual lived sense of
how this impacts a life, and not only when it's happening, because,
of course, these women told me about what it felt
like when it was happening, and that is heartbreaking and
very difficult to read. But for me, what's even more
important and even harder to come to terms with, is

(01:24:55):
them telling me about the thirty years since then and
how their entire lives have been impacted and shaped by
crimes committed by unrepentant individual Jews who have for the
most part, completely escaped accountability. And I want people to
understand how that impacts a life and just how lasting

(01:25:15):
that damage is.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
How do we stop the justice system from retraumatizing victims?
Are the lines of questioning that we just need to
stamp out? Yes, I absolutely believe so.

Speaker 11 (01:25:28):
I've said I cover the courts as a journalist kind
of all day, every day. So I've seen a lot
of trials and this was is it the worst example,
but I see it all the time. You know, the
way that victims of these kind of crimes are cross
examined should absolutely be reformed. There should be questions that
are not allowed to be asked. I discussed in the

(01:25:49):
book things like the neuroscience of traumatic memory and delayed disclosure,
the reason that people aren't able to come forward about
sexual abuse when it's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
The science on that is.

Speaker 11 (01:26:01):
Very clear, and what I believe is that we should
outlaw questions on cross examination that are unscientific. So, you know,
all these women were accused of lying and making up
a story because they didn't come forward straight away, or
because their memories aren't exactly clear, But we know from
the neurochemistry of traumatic memory that.

Speaker 5 (01:26:23):
No traumatic memory will.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
Ever be clear.

Speaker 11 (01:26:25):
That's how the brain deals with these kind of overwhelming memories.
So I think that being attacked for having an incomplete memory,
being attacked for not coming forward sooner, these things should
not be allowed because they are unscientific, and if a
jury is not across the science and the neurochemistry of trauma,

(01:26:45):
then then they might believe a defense's line of argument
about that, And the legal system should be based in fact,
and those questions are not factual or scientific, so they
should be banned. And also I feel very strongly about
banning questions that aim to discredit victims based on the
very symptoms of trauma. So things like and this is

(01:27:06):
what I'm talking about in terms of the lasting damage.
We know scientifically that things like self harm, eating disorders, addiction,
any kind of any kind of chronic numbing behavior is
a direct consequence of trauma. But yet victims are attacked
on the witness stand in cross examination for exhibiting those

(01:27:27):
very symptoms, and they say, you know, I heard the
defense say, oh, you're just a drug addict, and you're
lying because you want to get some money from Epstein's estate.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
To buy more drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:27:37):
But we know that drug addiction in adulthood is closely
connected to sexual abuse in childhood. So again, scientifically, those
questions shouldn't be allowed. They are nasty, they are cruel,
They are intended to discredit a victim when in fact,
symptoms the victim is showing make it more likely that
this thing happened to them, not less.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Likely, Lucie. Is this story over? In the Victim and
pet Statements, Sarah made the point that there are other
enablers and institutions who should be how to account. Is
the amore to come?

Speaker 11 (01:28:09):
Absolutely certainly. I mean there's so much more even that
I know that I couldn't publish in this book names
of perpetrators who haven't been held to account, and I
certainly hope that we see many, many more indictments. From
what I know, there should be at least five to
ten people against whom there is already enough evidence for

(01:28:31):
an indictment. I'm very disappointed that those haven't happened yet.
I will keep trying to publish what I know because
there are so many people out there who have not
been held accountable. And that's another thing I really wanted
to come across in this book is that a lot
of people think they know this story and therefore that
this is kind of in the past, but it is

(01:28:52):
so far from over, because there are people out there
living their lives who abused these women when they were
children and should be held accountable for it, but are
still being protected by their wealth and power and connections.
And that makes me very angry, and I hope and
I'll certainly continue working on this, but I you know,
I also hope the criminal justice system produces, you know,

(01:29:15):
many more indictments over the years to come.

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
Literally, when it became when people became aware of the
fact you were covering the case and writing the book,
you were threatened.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Yes, yes, I was.

Speaker 14 (01:29:30):
So.

Speaker 11 (01:29:30):
I mean the most obvious way, which is the only
one that I put in the book, is that when
I went out to Florida to beat one of the victims,
I was tailed and followed around the whole time that
I was there. But then I was directly approached by
whoever it was who was being employed to follow me,
and he threatened me to try and get me to

(01:29:52):
not do this interview with this particular victim who'd never
spoken to a journalist before. And there are a lot
of people who would not want her to speak to
me because she was trafficked to a lot of people,
and they they really didn't want me to do this interview,
and so they threatened me. They tried to pay me
to not do it, and when that didn't work, they

(01:30:13):
threatened miss more. And then since then they've just made
it very clear to me in my phone and kind
of you know, making it clear that I'm being watched,
which is, you know, again something that these people do
and they've been doing it to the victims for thirty years.
I mean a lot of them told me that Gilaine

(01:30:34):
promised them when they were teenagers that if they ever
spoke up about this, then you know, she and her
people will be watching. And they have followed through on that, right.
You know, they still follow the victims around. Most of
them have to live mostly in hiding, so you know,
these people still wield a lot a lot of power
in society and have a lot of money and a
lot to lose, and so they can afford to spend

(01:30:56):
money hiring people to follow me around and trying to
intimidate me.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
Lucia, thank you so much for your time this morning,
and thank you so much for the book and your
persistence with this case.

Speaker 11 (01:31:06):
No, thank you, thank you for your time. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
And The Lasting Home is in stores now. It is
twenty past eleven. News talks edb Keep.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
It's Simple, It's Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgater and Wiggles for the
best selection of Gravers, News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
And it's time now for the panel and I am
joined today by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Hi, Wilhelmina,
good morning, and resident economist at Opie's Partner's Ed McKnight.

Speaker 24 (01:31:35):
How are you it, Francesca, good to speak to here, Wilhelmina.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
Did the crowd strike it? Saga stop you getting your
fish and chips? On Friday night?

Speaker 18 (01:31:45):
Not quite my vision chips, but I was in a restaurant,
went up to pay about six forty five seven pm,
so not too late in the evening, and my card
just wasn't working. My friend's car didn't work, and we
thought that it might be an a show with her account,
and then I tried and then the bar staff said, actually,
you know this massive issue and just had to write
down and kick it old schul and write down my

(01:32:07):
details and bank transfer them the next day. So initially
really embarrassing when you see the words declined come up
on the terminal, but then realizing that it's actually widespread
made me feel slightly better.

Speaker 6 (01:32:17):
Apart from the.

Speaker 18 (01:32:17):
Fact that I couldn't then order anything or cab home afterwards,
which was a little bit niggly.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
You see, I'm quite familiar with declines popping up.

Speaker 15 (01:32:25):
ED.

Speaker 3 (01:32:26):
I'm making light of this, but actually this is really
concerning and just massive the impact it's had. Like, you know,
it really annoying for restaurants and uber drivers and things.
But we're looking at you know, airports and hospitals and banks,
you know, the kind of places that we don't want
to go offline for twenty four to forty eight hours.

Speaker 19 (01:32:47):
ED.

Speaker 24 (01:32:48):
Oh, definitely not. And I think one of the things
that sometimes people get wrong about technology is we expect
it to work one hundred percent of the time, and
that zero points zero one percent of the time. When
it doesn't work, that's when we start to have really
really large issues, the kinds of ones that you kind
of identified. One of the things I did want to
mention is that when technology doesn't work and you're trying

(01:33:09):
to get your fish and chips, it can be really,
really annoying. And one of the things that was a
bit concerning is I heard instances where people were a
bit aggressive with retail staff. And I understand why people
get annoyed, but you know, it wasn't the retail workers
that come up with the IT systems.

Speaker 3 (01:33:26):
I completely agreeable, Amana. I think, look, we never know
what is going on in a person's life and what
kind of day they've had, and you never know what
it might be that pushes them over the years. But
there was no excuse for being abusive when you're in
a situation like that on either side, one.

Speaker 18 (01:33:43):
Hundred percent, you just have to be really, really understanding.
And I remember the bar staff and the restaurant staff
that I was at were really really sweet and understanding
as well.

Speaker 5 (01:33:50):
They didn't really know what was going on. We didn't
know what was going on, and I think it was
just a matter of kind of putting all frustrations aside.

Speaker 18 (01:33:56):
And obviously it was frustrating people couldn't get cabs, people
couldn't order things, to the point where people were stranded
at airports. I think when it's widespread like this, and
obviously early in the early days you didn't really know
how widespread it was, but it's a matter of just
kind of stepping back, taking a bit of a breath,
and going, actually, yeah, this is not these people's fault.

(01:34:16):
They are the messenger, and unfortunately we are so reliant
and I think It really exposed the fragility of the
Internet and technology, and obviously we place such a massive
reliance on it, and it is actually concerning that the
entire world can come to a screeching, grinding holt with
the press of a button or the upgrade of a system,
or the you know, an error in the upgrade of

(01:34:39):
a system.

Speaker 5 (01:34:39):
And I think I was reading something on Friday night about.

Speaker 18 (01:34:41):
How someone was saying, this is what we expected when
it clipped over to the millennium in two thousand, when
everyone was really worried about Y two K and what
was going to happen, and that we were actually living
out the Y two K. Now, it is concerning how
much reliance we put on everything and how it can
all just kind of come crashing down in a couple
of seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
I can remember why. Okay, I was standing in San
Francisco waiting to work all over and nothing happened, and
we just carried on. We're going that is the biggest
let down ever.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
It raises the question, of course, what we're hoping is
that because this was just this globe, you know, this
this had such an impact globally that we're not going
to see it again because there's going to be better
testing put in place and the end of the software
companies are going to make sure that this doesn't necessarily
happen again. But how should we take responsibility? You'll be
prepared for this, I mean, is there you know obviously
once again, if you're traveling, you want to make sure

(01:35:31):
you've got your insurance. Everyone's saying, oh, it's good to
have a little bit of cash tucked away, but will
you actually go and get that cash and tuck it
away and then not use it all of a sudden
for something.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 24 (01:35:41):
One of the things that I picked up with this
is while it does expose some of that fragility, it
also shows some of that resilience in the system as well,
because we don't have these IT outages all of the time,
and it came up relatively quickly. But to answer your question,
Francesca about cash, it's certainly made me think about it.
A number of my friends based in Hawke's Bay and
christ Church, because they've had earthquakes in the past, quite

(01:36:04):
a number of them have cash it home, just a
couple of hundred dollars just in case something happens. Because
although it doesn't happen all of the time. It's that
zero point zero one percent of the time when something
does happen that you think, oh, gosh, I really needed
that insurance. I really needed that cash.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
Nineteen gret I mean, Willhelmina, would you will you be
you know, tuck a bit of cashway in your handbag.

Speaker 5 (01:36:30):
I was going to say, watch me stuff hundreds underneath
my mattress.

Speaker 18 (01:36:36):
I feel like, you know, you have your disaster git
and I sit here saying this as if I have
a disaster kit when I actually don't. I actually need
to get my aim to g and put one together.
You know, water can food a couple of hundies. Whether
it's in my mattress or not get to be decided.
But I think definitely, I think it's worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:56):
I think you're making. My point is that we all
know that we should, but actually getting around to it
as something we don't do. Hey, look, there was an
article today in the newspaper about a gentleman who had
had a huge amount of success on the drug Ozmpic
and lost an awful lot of weight and the health
benefits that they are experiencing now from losing thirty kilograms
and the call is being made that it should be

(01:37:18):
funded here in New Zealand for weight loss. Of course,
it's a diabetes drug. I believe there is another, a
very similar drug that in New Zealand for weight loss.
But is that where we should be going with a
drug like that? I mean, I could see Wilhelmina in
situations where somebody is very obesie it is very difficult
for them to lose weight for genetic reasons in their

(01:37:41):
own makeup and things. But where we'd have to make
a decision though as to what is obese and where
we would feel it would be appropriate to use it.

Speaker 18 (01:37:51):
Yeah, Look, that's a really delicate dance I think you'd have. Yeah,
I think you'd have to assess it case by case.
And look, obviously there are it's a non surgical option,
which is a way less invasive option than a lot
of people have right now. And I feel like giving
them that option because I know I've got friends who
have undergone weight loss surgery and obviously that's a really
risky invasive surgery. To be able to give someone a

(01:38:11):
non surgical option, I think is a really great thing.
I just think you'd have to be really careful this
is in a case by case. Obviously there are side
effects to consider, there are lots of things to consider
when making that decision. But I think for so many
people it's life changing, and I think being able to
give them that option is a really powerful thing.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
I mean, it's not the kind of thing that you're
going to go yep, no, we're going to fund it
and people go in and convince their doctor to give
it to them when really they don't need it, especially
you don't know how long you might potentially need to
be on it.

Speaker 24 (01:38:38):
One of the things I'd say is the issue we
have with this drug is that it's not currently available
for weight loss. So I think we should legalize it
for weight loss, but not funded by the government. We've
got way more important priorities than spending money on a
specific weight loss strug. I think, make it available, but

(01:38:58):
don't government fund it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Okay, interesting, right, guys. The Olympic start this week Friday.
I am very excited. I love a distraction. And when
even if it is in the middle of the night,
are you excited with I mean, have you got your
eye on any particular sports or athletes.

Speaker 5 (01:39:15):
I'm really excited. I remember the last time the Olympics
were on.

Speaker 18 (01:39:18):
I was actually down in Queenstown and I remember they
were playing kind of round the clock in the lobby
where I was staying, and I loved going down there
and waiting and just watching and seeing what was on.
And I love that you actually get to see a
lot of sports that never really get any airtime. My
favorite is watching the diving and the gymnastics. I just
think it's such a visual spectacle and I'm really really

(01:39:39):
excited to tune in and just see some of the
insane skills that I could never even fathom actually having
kind of play out on Telly.

Speaker 5 (01:39:48):
I think it's such an exciting thing.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
That's interesting because I think you're either drawn to stuff
that either you used to do as a kid or
you just cannot imagine doing at all.

Speaker 24 (01:39:56):
What about you, Ed, I think I'll give the badminton
a crack, or maybe the table tennis. There's a lot
of great racket sports out there, And you talk about
the visual spectacle, some of these guys playing table tennis,
it's just outrageous.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
What they can do bit a squash.

Speaker 24 (01:40:11):
Not this year, I think we've got to wait until
the twenty twenty eight Olympic Games before we get squash
in there.

Speaker 3 (01:40:16):
Oh so the record and ball interesting interesting, takes you
to thank you so much for your time today. Wilhelmina Shrimpton,
Shrimpton and Ed McKnight there on the panel. It is
twenty seven to twelve you with News Talks. You be
coming up next. Jason Pine is with us. We're going
to get his thoughts on the All Blacks Fiji game
from yesterday afternoon.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
Jason Pine will be with you at midday on weekend
Sport and he joins me. Now, good morning, Good morning,
All Blacks versus Fiji yesterday afternoon, A lot of fresh
young faces got a run, Pony. I liked it, Yeah,
I liked it.

Speaker 25 (01:40:56):
It was it was a really good end to the
first little segment of Razors regime. I guess you'd say,
slightly more comfortable than playing against and of course, and
you know, I guess now what they have to do
as workout acre. Which of those fresh faces yesterday did
well enough to push the I guess you'd call them
the top fifteen or the top twenty three.

Speaker 7 (01:41:17):
When the Rugby Championship rolls around.

Speaker 25 (01:41:19):
I think there's certainly a lot of guys who took
their opportunity and put their hand up nice and high.
They're going to name the Rugby Championship squad next Sunday,
it'll be the same team with four added to it,
so they'll increase it up to thirty six for the
Rugby Championship.

Speaker 6 (01:41:35):
But yeah, I think overall you'd be fairly happy, wouldn't you?

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
Three up, three down? If you raise a yeah, no totally.
I mean it's very hard to maybe compare the game
yesterday against the games against England, and you know, compare
performances by different players are quite different games.

Speaker 7 (01:41:49):
Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 25 (01:41:51):
And you know, you think about about the players who
played in midfield for the all Black xantline, Brown and
Billy Procton. They had a yeah, great combo, but they
didn't have Fiji up in their faces like twenty Baron
and Rico Joannie did in Doneda and Auckland. So really
interesting little equation for and the other coaches to do. Okay,
so how do you balance those two things? Yeah, Procter
and Lennard Brown played really well, but how does there

(01:42:14):
you know, eight out of ten against Fiji, rate against
a seven out of ten against England. You know, that's
the kind of conversation that will have to be had.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
But good problems to have. Yeah, definitely. Damian McKenzie third
time in the row, a third time in a row
in the driver's seat. Would you think his performance? I
thought he did well.

Speaker 25 (01:42:30):
Yeah, they've asked him to and raise his words, own
that jersey, and you know that's all you can do,
really And I love the fact that they've said to him, Look,
you've obviously I think they probably said right at the
start of you know, of the year or when they
got together, look you're going to play first five, the
first three test matches and go out there and own
the jersey. And I think he's done pretty well. I

(01:42:50):
don't know that there will be any need for a
change when the Rugby Championship comes around. Yeah, you could
play body there, you could play Steven Pettifetta there. But
I think Damien McKenzie has owned the ten jersey so
so has earned the right I think to carry on
in it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
Olympics of course, kicking off at the end of the week.
Very excited, wonderful to see new Zealand high jumper Hamish
Kerr when Dimon League gold medal this morning. Lots. So,
I mean, where do you start? So many exciting athletes
to follow over the next couple of weeks. Oh, I
can't wait.

Speaker 25 (01:43:19):
I love the Olympic Games. And I said to Jack
yesterday the best thing about it is you become an instant,
the expert on table tennis and and and rhythmic gymnastics.

Speaker 7 (01:43:29):
And speed climbing.

Speaker 25 (01:43:31):
Honestly, you have no idea what's about to hit you
When I see you around, I'm gonna I'm just going
to absolutely punish you with facts well about Greek co
Roman wrestling and the like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
I know that you too have been preparing for this
for three years. But no, it's interesting because there was
a bit of a comment about the rhythmicd ofm Nestics
the other day, and I did say that my daughter
did do high performance with mctim netlik for was if
you need a little hand, a little help with the commentary,
preferably tween. You know, not at three am.

Speaker 5 (01:43:55):
But I don't think you could be picking from five
point thirty on.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
Okay, well I'll write that down alrighte that down?

Speaker 25 (01:44:04):
Yeah, Actually, we've been running the to Paris feature right
across the last two or three months. I'm checking in
with some of our wonderful Olympians from days gone by.
We finished that Road to Paris this afternoon with Sarah Walker.
She won a silver in the BMX in London and
twenty twelve, but her journey to twenty twelve and subsequent
to it has been quite the journey. So you're looking
forward to Channel's Sarah Walker after.

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
Two fantastic Thanks so much, Pony. Jason Pine with you
at midday with Weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Sport Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin
and Winkles for the best selection of Greg Reeds.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Please talk zebby right time to.

Speaker 3 (01:44:41):
Talk travel now. In Joining me is Meghan Singleton, blogger
at large dot com.

Speaker 26 (01:44:45):
Good morning, Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
I love what you're going to talk about today because
we have been talking about for ages now here on
the Sunday session about how hard it is for the
hospitality industry. And one of the things that we often
do when we go pop into a different town or
a different center in things is head out for a
meal and you've got a one solution here that everyone benefits.

Speaker 26 (01:45:09):
From exactly well, that's exactly right. So we've been reading
about the sort of downfall of some amazingly gorgeous food
hospitality venues in our favorites are sort of going under,
and I thought, what a perfect time to discuss the
whole concept of first table dining. So that's what I

(01:45:29):
want to talk about. First table is actually ten years
old this year. I've really only just discovered it. It
was founded by a Kiwi businessman. It now has nineteen
hundred restaurants across New Zealand, Australia and the UK. It
has one point five million people registered as foodies in
their online community, and that means there'll be a whole

(01:45:51):
lot more diners than just the ones registered because often
you can you go as a group of four or whatever,
so you can only go two, three or four people
and take advantage of this offer. But it's fifty percent
of all meals, so it's amazing. So I used it
to dine at some posh restaurants in Auckland to my
sister use it to dine in a posh restaurant in

(01:46:11):
Hawk's Bay. Try out a new place, get fifty percent
off the dining. Some of the restaurants might put their
own terms that they want on it, so they might exclude, like,
I don't know, the crayfish tail or something like that,
or they might say you need to buy a glass
of wine because the drinks are not fifty percent of But.

Speaker 21 (01:46:31):
Then there go.

Speaker 26 (01:46:32):
So it's a great little encouragement for us to get out.
And who doesn't like to dine early in these dark,
cold winter nights.

Speaker 3 (01:46:39):
Anyway, do you have Is there any fee involved in
make part of this?

Speaker 27 (01:46:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 26 (01:46:44):
Yeah, so though there is, so for each booking you make,
and the fee ranges from eight to fifteen dollars, so
like the high end restaurants will there'll be a fifteen
dollar booking fee, so that gets paid to first table.
There's no commission or contracts that the restaurants enter into
with them, so I like that, you know, they can
come and go see how it works for them. They

(01:47:05):
also have the option of last table, so when you
go on to make a booking, you can choose first table,
and you look at the dining times available and then
you can actually click the tab for last table, and
that is only like eight o'clock eight thirty, and you
could do the end of the night dining. So the
whole idea is to help the restaurant, like create a
buzz early on. People are seated, people are eating. Some

(01:47:26):
restaurants use it so that the chef can try out
a new tasting menu perhaps, And I just think it's great.
And I can't believe I've only just discovered it and
it's ten years old.

Speaker 18 (01:47:35):
No what, I hadn't heard of it either. I don't
go out to eat a lot, but I have noticed
when we have gone out and maybe a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:47:42):
Earlier, it is busy. Earlier people do, like, don't mind
what a lot of the time that's a six o'clock
six seating and then at eight o'clock seating and you know,
you have to sort of leave the table and things.
So often restaurants are sort of churning through the diners
and things. But I think a lot of people, especially
in winter, quite enjoy going out and eating early.

Speaker 9 (01:48:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
I loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
Personally. Our girls' nights often start.

Speaker 26 (01:48:03):
At six o'clock and we're done by eight very much
home by eight thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:48:07):
With a cup of tea. No why not?

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
So basically you do the booking through first table, you
go to first Table Google for rest.

Speaker 26 (01:48:17):
You look to the city you want to be, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Like I even looked up London and there's tons of
restaurants in London, and then within London I looked at
Covent Garden. I was like, oh my goodness, Yeah, what
an opportunity. Why not do all of that then go
to a show. I mean that's sort of the idea.

Speaker 3 (01:48:32):
It'll be amazing, fantastic. So that's yeah, global, So New
Zealand and Australia and the UK, is that.

Speaker 26 (01:48:38):
Right, yes, yes, for nineteen hundred restaurants, so that's that's yeah,
probably more than the whole of New Zealand's got all together,
not every restaurant's and members. So you do jump on
have a little look. But again I say, we actually
did it before a show in Auckland. We did that there,
so that just is reminding me. Even somewhere like Melbourne,
the ideal do an early restaurant book and get fifty

(01:48:58):
percent off your food, go to a show, go for
a drink after I did.

Speaker 3 (01:49:02):
Thank you so much, Meghan. And Meghan's got all the
information about First Table in a blog on her website,
blogger at large dot com. It is thirteen to twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:49:14):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Greek reads.

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
It is time to talk books, and joining me now
is Joan McKenzie. Good morning, Hello, Karen Slaughter's back. Always
love a book.

Speaker 27 (01:49:27):
Yeah, yeah, And every time I talk about her, I
can't help saying she has the best surname for a
thriller writer.

Speaker 3 (01:49:34):
Well, I think the first time I heard about her,
I said to you, Oh, that's not a real name,
is it, And You're like, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
Believe it is.

Speaker 27 (01:49:41):
So this is the twelfth book in a series she's
written about two really terrific characters, Will Trent and Sarah Linton.
And Will works for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and
Sarah's a medical examiner, so they kind of get to
tag along workwise. Sometimes they've just got married and Will's
arranged a very special honeymoon for them at an exclusive

(01:50:01):
remote lodge where they're going to go and have a
very nice time. It's a place for very tricky at
sets and very remote. And when they get there they
find that the owners of the lodge, who are an
extended family, are a very odd group of people, and
Will and Sarah don't know it, but the elderly parents
want to sell up and their daughter Mercy is standing
in their way, so there's lots of simmer intensions going on.

(01:50:23):
And then while they're having a romantic honeymoon swim in
the lake one night, they hear terrible screaming and Will
runs and finds that Mercy, this daughter, has been murdered,
brutally murdered, and given their respective occupations, of course, they
immediately swing into professional mode and try and figure out
who did it, especially given that the location is so

(01:50:43):
difficult to get to. And what they find is that
everybody there, the guests and the family, everybody is telling lies.
What they don't know is why it's really really well done.
I think Karen Slaughter is one of the best thriller
writers around. It's pacey, got lots of twists and turns
and ending that I certainly didn't see coming. I have

(01:51:05):
to say, there are some dark themes in this book,
but she uses them to deliver a thriller with real punch.
And if you like a good thriller, look no further.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
Brilliant Now Tom Bower has released a book called The
House of Beckham, which obviously is about the Beckhams.

Speaker 27 (01:51:20):
He has, and he's no stranger to writing books about
controversial people. He's done Meghan and Harry and Tony Blair
and Boris Johnson and loadsmore, and now he's turned his
sights on David and Victoria, for whom he seems to
have no affection at all. And he's written this book,
which he says will lift the lid on the Beckhams.
But from what I can tell, it seems to be

(01:51:40):
a whole lot of previously written about information from magazines
and newspapers and probably the Internet. And what he's trying
to say is that on the Netflix documentary, they portrayed
themselves as this golden couple with a wonderful twenty five
year long marriage and everything is wonderful in their world.
And he's trying to say that that was a very

(01:52:00):
contrived and manufactured persona that they put together, and actually
the reality.

Speaker 3 (01:52:05):
Is quite different.

Speaker 27 (01:52:07):
And you might ask why we care and why you'd
want to read this book. Well, Victoria herself says that
there is a contract between people and the Beckhams, and
they need each other in order for I guess our
prurient interest and her ability to manage brand Beckham Survive.
But it's what I would say about it is its
salacious gossip and speculation, but it does present an entirely

(01:52:31):
different side to brand Beckham than that TV does, and
I suspect the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
There's some genuinely interesting stuff in this book about what
they've achieved and how these two kids who pretty much
came from nothing have grown into such a global brand
that there's actually quite a lot to admire about them,
whether or not you like the way that they've gone

(01:52:51):
about it. And also, you know, let's just face it,
the lives of the rich and famous can be endlessly entertaining.

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
Absolutely those two books, Thank you, Joan. Those two books,
This Is Why We Lied by Karen Slaughter and The
House of Beckham by Tom Bauer, will took me see you.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
Then, even simple.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Whiggles
for the last selection of the Gratings News.

Speaker 3 (01:53:15):
Talk zedb Thank you so much for joining me today
on the Sunday Session. Love you to have your company
and for all your feedback. Thank you very much to
Libby and Carrie for producing the show. As well. I
have got a fabulous show lined up for you next weekend.
Next Sunday, Lucy Lawless is going to join me. And
of course we all know Lucy from being in front
of the camera Alexa Crow or zena way back in

(01:53:37):
the day. But Lucy has just taken up the opportunity
to direct a film for the first time, and she's
made a documentary called Never Look Away, and it's absolutely fascinating.
It tells the story of a New Zealand cameraman called
Margaret Moth. She was the first female cameraman in New
Zealand and she went and worked for CNN as a
war correspondent and is regarded as a trailblazer when it

(01:54:01):
comes to camera women, especially in war zones. She was
very attracted to war zones and she went to all
of them. Really interesting, complex, fabulous woman, Margaret Moss. She
makes a really great subject and Lucy's done an incredible
job of pulling her life story together and all the
things that happened to her, you know, trying to work

(01:54:22):
out kind of what makes her tick. So we're going
to talk about that documentary. It's premiered earlier in the
year at Sundance. It is coming back to screen in
the New Zealand International Film Festival, which of course is
kicking off at the end of July, so we will
be talking about that. Also joining me next Sunday is
Matchism and he has written a new book. It's called
The Road to Chatto Creek and it kind of it

(01:54:45):
chronicles his journey from city life to country life. And
I'll tell you what, that man loves his sheep and
his calves, especially the pretty ones. We're going to have
a talk about that and where the lambs really should
be wearing gorgeous little coats when they're born, and things
like that. But it's been it's a wonderful book that
sort of talks about that journey that he's made. And

(01:55:06):
I'm sure than in the back of many of our
minds we think about making a change in our lives
like he has made, so just how easy is it
to do? We'll be talking about that as well. Don't
forget that Jason Pine is coming up next here at
midday and we're going to finish off with some new
music by Kiwi artist Lisa Crawley. Enjoy the rest of

(01:55:26):
your Sunday, see you next week.

Speaker 6 (01:55:52):
Where are you going?

Speaker 15 (01:56:00):
Hey ya, feelings so low your only.

Speaker 26 (01:56:11):
Crime.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
I've never mercy.

Speaker 15 (01:56:17):
That's shape of flu on you.

Speaker 2 (01:56:23):
No, I've never seen that's shame on you.

Speaker 1 (01:56:32):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to Use talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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