Full Show Podcast: 21 September 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
reads used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good morning, it is seven past nine. You're with the
Sunday Session. I'm Francisca Rudkin with you until midday. I
hope you've had a good week. School holidays are upon us.
Why isn't whenever the school holidays arrive the terrible weather
isn't far behind? Anyway? Daylight saving in a week? Here
we go. There's something to look forward to on the
show today. Clak Gayford joins me to talk about his

(00:47):
documentary Prime Minister. He produced and he co shot the film.
It's not a political examination of Dame Disinda Adurn's time
as Prime Minister. It's a unique look at leadership. It
gives us a glimpse behind the scenes of this job
that very few people actually get the chance to do.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Clark is with me at the ten after eleven This morning,
we speak to German and investigative journalist Sunka Iverson about
his book The Tesla Files. It's a tall all account
of how Iverson and a colleague came into possession of
a hundred gigabytes of leaked internal Tesla files that lifted
the lids on some pretty explosive secrets at the heart
of Elon Musk's flagship brand. If you've got a Tesla

(01:25):
and you're thinking about getting that full auto drive hardware
put and you might want to have a listen to
this interview. We will find out more about that after
eleven and of course, as always your most welcome to
text anytime throughout the morning's standard messaging cost supply on
ninety two ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Two for Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So I watched Jordi Beamish's win in the three thousand
meter steeple chase World Cup final race this week quite
a few times. Just put a smile on my face
every time, and I've reflected on his comment it's what
he's been putting in for a decade that made it possible.
I don't know, it was just a real Tonic along
with Hamish Kurrn all all the other great successes at

(02:07):
the World Athletics Champs. As the week went on, though,
I found myself comparing a steeple chase race and a
term in politics. A term of politics is three years,
but it's also a sprint, right. It's one filled with
hurdles and deep troughs to navigate, and occasionally and you
find yourself sprawled on the ground with a shoe in
your face, like this week when the disappointing GDP figures

(02:29):
came out. Success doesn't happen overnight, as Beamish said, it
comes from years of hard work, and even then success
often requires a strong kick at the end. In my goodness,
this government is going to need a good campaign kick
next year to show they've delivered. They're on their promises
for this term. The latest GDP stats, which to be fair,

(02:50):
took everyone by surprise. Where a shoe in the face
moment for Luxeen and Willis and their go for growth approach.
The results aren't entirely their fault. The Reserve Bank's management
of the ocr and the recession that engineered definitely has
something to do with it. At a stretch, you can
throw in the uncertainty of President Trump's tower, but when
you're campaigning on running the economy better, it's natural people

(03:10):
want to see you do exactly that. The coalition government
may be paying large interest bills for the billions borrowed
during the pandemic, but constantly blaming the previous government for
poor financial management sounds well, it sort of starts to
sound like an excuse rather than a fact. A poll
out this week showed more voters held the current government
responsible for economic issues rather than the previous labor led government.

(03:34):
I think Luxon and Willis need a new way to
tell us that good things take time, and it is
a hard message to sell because it's a hard pilled
to take. But the current messaging approach isn't working. With
more stories about factories closing down, you know those stories
heading the headlines. The Finance minister can't afford to wait
for what is hopefully an improved GDP result from the

(03:57):
September quarter, not that the opposition and making the most
of the opportunities they're being handed on a platter. Labor
leader cross Hip Cans also put a small my face
this week when he claimed the whole government needs to go.
Nichola Willis, Christpher Luxon, Chris Busship, they are all in
this together. I think the whole government should resign. Hipkins
made a hash of an easy hit by peering out

(04:18):
of his mind? Can we please ditch the National Party?
Resignation movement seems to be increasingly vocal in the vague
hope that if they say it often enough, the prophecy
will come true. At this stage, resignation calls aren't justified
or helpful, but good ideas and strong policy is luxeon
and Willis need a new story. It is too risky
to leave it up to the final kick at election

(04:39):
time next year. Not everyone can pull off what Jordie
Beamish did.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So do you want a different story? Are you running
out of patients? Ruth Richardson this year? This excuse me
this week called for more cuts. She wants a much
stronger aggressive approach to austerity, cutting superannuation and public service.
Is that what you want to see? I suppose it
kind of depends on how patient you are and what
position you're in to ride out this cycle or not.

(05:10):
Can to hear from you? You can text on ninety two
ninety two it is twelve past nine. He stoks e
b even simple.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
It's Sundays The Sunday.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection
of great relis news talk z eNB.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
So.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Over the last twenty four hours or so, we have
seen Republicans and right wing conservatives speak out against the
suspension of late night talk hosts. Jimmy Kimmel, Ted Cruz,
Tucker Carlson, and Ben Shapiro have expressed concerns around the
presidents set, with Republican Cruz comparing FCC chairm and Brendan
Carr's actions to that of a mob boss. To discuss
the legal aspects of all this, I'm joined by assistant

(05:48):
law Professor Jacob China Briggs. Jacob's work focuses on First
Amendment freedoms of speech and the press. Jacob, thank you
so much for being with us. This is about more
than what Jimmy Kimmel said about the killing of Charlie
Kirk and the implications around the suspected gunman. It seems
a lot more complicated than jim So, can you explain
the role the chairman of the Federation of Communications Commission

(06:12):
head an allness, Sure?

Speaker 5 (06:14):
Sure so.

Speaker 6 (06:15):
Starting with the FCC chair shortly after the remarks that
Jimmy Kimmel made, which we could talk about those remarks specifically,
I think it's important to be precise about what he
actually said. But after that monologue, the chair of the
FCC made public statements which suggested that if ABC did

(06:38):
not act to discipline Kimmel, the FCC would have, you know,
something to the effect of some work ahead of it.
And if you listen to the interview in context, that's
a thinly veiled threat. I think it's easy to read
it that way, that the FCC might act to, for instance,
revoke the broadcast license of local ABC affiliates using public airwaves.

(06:58):
At one point, he says, we can do this the
easy way or the hard way, which is just, you know,
so on the nose as to be a cliche, but
I think it's easy to read those statements as threatening
forthcoming action regulatory action against regulated entities like ABC, if
it did not take action in response to speech that

(07:18):
Jimmy Kimmel made that the administration.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Did not like, can he make streets like that.

Speaker 6 (07:25):
So he can in a literal sense, I think it
raises some serious First Amendment concerns. So the First Amendment
to the US Constitution guarantees the freedom of speech, and
typically the First Amendment only applies to government actors, which
is to say that private entities cannot typically violate a
person's freedom of speech. But the Supreme Court has been

(07:48):
clear in interpreting the First Amendment that the government cannot
force private intermediaries to do its censorship work for it.
That also violates the First Amendment, and I think this
case is fairly exemplary of that principle. So, even if
it's a b C rather than the federal government that's

(08:08):
taking Jimmy Kimmel off the air, if Jimmy Kimmel could
prove that ABC only did that in response to the
government's coercion, then there would be a big First Amendment
problem there.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, so he could Kimmel could sue.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
You know, that's a complicated question for a bunch of
procedural reasons. But I think, you know, the way I
would think about it is if he could, as a
procedural matter, get into court, then you know what lawyers
refer to as the merits of the case, the actual
First Amendment issues. I think it looks like he has
a fairly strong First Amendment claim here, But you know,

(08:44):
predicting legal outcomes is always more art than science, and
I don't want to pretend to have a sort of
foresight that I don't. But just looking at the face
of these facts, yes, I think there would be a
colorable First Amendment claim.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Here, Jacob.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Are you aware at all of the if CC chairman
or an IFCC chairman in the past, you know, making
comments like.

Speaker 6 (09:04):
This in recent memory? And I think you know that's
part for the course of this administration acting distinctly from
you know, recent previous administrations. It's not as if the
United States doesn't have episodes of serious censorship in its history.
It certainly does, but I think in recent memory, these
ongoing events are stark in their distinctiveness. Now, I will say,

(09:29):
generally speaking, the FCC does have power over the licenses
of local broadcast affiliates. That comes from a nineteen thirty
four law that was passed by the US Congress called
the Communications Act. But generally speaking, using the authority over
broadcast licenses as a form of coercion to threaten broadcast affiliates,

(09:50):
you know, that's not something that I've been aware of
in my lifetime.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
No, And that was going to be my next question.
Could broadcasts be at risk of losing them if they
don't toe the line? Would they be legal precedent for this.

Speaker 6 (10:01):
I don't think so, in the sense that the Communications
Act says that if you are a licensed entity, So
if you want a broadcast license as a local affiliate,
you do have to air programming that's in the public interest.
But the FCC's power to revoke licenses on the basis
of that standard is seriously limited by the First Amendment. So,

(10:23):
for instance, if the government issues a license to a
local broadcaster, it then can't threaten to revoke that license
simply because it does not like the speech that the
affiliate is airing.

Speaker 5 (10:34):
It would take.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
Something more serious, like, for instance, the intentional and deliberate
distortion of facts by the broadcaster. So it's not to
say that the FCC has no power here, but the
SEC doesn't have the types of power that would allow
it to engage in viewpoint discrimination. That's very clearly foreclosed
by the First Amendment.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Also at play here is the fact that nick Stan
needs SEC approval to complete a merger with their rival.
So what role has this played in the suspension?

Speaker 6 (11:02):
So I think it's impossible to say de finish actively,
but let me just speak generally about the law. Government
can unconstitutionally coerce private entities to punish speech, not simply
by threatening them with punishment, so for instance, the revocation
of a license, but also by promising them certain rewards

(11:23):
if they censor a third party's speech. So the Supreme Court,
our Supreme Court, and its most recent decision on these matters,
it's a case called Nra versus Vulo. There the Court
was clear that both threats and inducements, both both sticks
and carrots, can unconstitutionally coerce private entities to censor speech.

(11:47):
And so it's not just that the FCC might be
threatening ABC's affiliate broadcast licenses, but for instance, you know,
if a merger approval was made contingent on the suppression
of speech, that also could raise serious First Amendment problems.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
In my introduction I mentioned and Ted Cruz has referred
to Britain Carr's actions as being that of a mob boss.
Has he overstepped the mark here?

Speaker 3 (12:16):
By he?

Speaker 6 (12:17):
Do you mean Ted Cruz or or the FCC chairman.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Makesually both of them?

Speaker 6 (12:23):
Well, I mean, I think I think Senator Cruz is
onto something. I mean, you know, I think the point
he's raising is that this is a double edged sword.
If you wielded the power of the federal government, all
of its financial power, all of its regulatory power, to
censor or punish speech that the current administration does not like.

(12:46):
It's not entirely clear why once the current incumbents are
out of power, that these weapons couldn't be turned against them.
And I think that's the basic principle that Ted Cruz
is pointing out. And so, you know, in that sense,
I think he's he's right. You know, I asked for
the FCC chairman.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yes, I do.

Speaker 6 (13:04):
You know, again, I think on face this this is
something that's not again precedented within recent memory, and it
does speak to I think at least the specter of
First Amendment violations.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
And Jacob, we're seeing are the right wing conservatives such
as Tucker Carlson coming out and being Shapiro. They're also
sort of speaking out saying that mister Kirk never wanted
his you know, would have wanted his death to be
used as a pretext for Craik down on speech. This
isn't really almost a Democrat versus Republican issue. It's bigger
than that.

Speaker 6 (13:38):
I think that's right. I think that's right, And again,
you know, I don't want to equivocate. I think what's
happening right now under this Republican administration is importantly different
and more extreme from what we've seen in other recent administrations.
But that being said, you know, it's not a partisan
issue if we let politics work this way generally, which

(13:58):
is to say that if there's a regime change and
the other party comes into power, then it's certainly conceivable,
you know, we could be if we don't change our ways,
and if we don't push back against this as a
matter of principle, that we would be stuck in a
spiral of a liberalism in which different teams take turns
using the federal government to punish each other. And I mean,

(14:18):
you know, I think it's self evident that would be
a very very bad outcome for democracy in this country.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Where too, from here, do you see a further crackdown
on the media bang abu, you know, to express criticism
of the government.

Speaker 6 (14:30):
I think in the short term, yes, we're going to
continue to see episodes like this. Political scientists, very prominent
political scientists, have looked at the United States and they
warn increasingly that the United States is either backsliding or
has backslid into what they call competitive authoritarianism. So what
does that term mean. It just means that you have

(14:52):
a country where there are still elections and the incumbents
can lose those elections, so they aren't totally controlled by
the state or totally rigged, but nonetheless the incumbents unfairly
tilt the playing field in their favor, and so it's
or for the opposition to win elections because it raises
the political, social, and legal cost of normal democratic opposition.

(15:14):
And so, you know, I think those warnings are are persuasive,
and I do think that we will probably in the
short term, continue to see activity like this speech suppressive activity.
Now that being said, I think that actually means it's
more important to continue to speak because even though the
costs are hired to speak out against this administration than
they've been in the past, they aren't so high, at

(15:37):
least for many of us, that it's prohibitive. And so
it's really really important to keep speaking out because it's
silence rather than speech that allows the government to really
raise the cost of opposition, and that's not where we
want to be. And that's why we don't want to
see corporations like Disney so quickly acquiescing to government pressure.
It's a bad sign and corporations and institutions and people

(16:00):
need to need to continue to speak out against it.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, it's fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for talking
us throughout this morning, Jacob.

Speaker 6 (16:06):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
That was Assistant Law Professor Jacob Shriner Briggs. It is
twenty five past nine Newstalks ATB.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on NEWSTALGSTB.

Speaker 7 (16:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
So a story caught my attention on Friday. It was
reported the New Zealand Herald that apartment sales are so
dire in Auckland. One developer is having to rent, not sell,
seventy seven units in a brand new apartment block. Yet
despite low sales and lack of demand, the government is
changing laws to allow for more apartments. So why are
we planning to build housing that no one is currently buying?

(16:44):
Is this just we actually? You know, do we have
a long term plan in place? Every once would be
very exciting. Mount Hobson Group urban planning expert Hamish Firth
is with me now. Good morning Hamish, Good morning Francesca.
So we're told that building upwards and intensification is our future.
So why are apartments not selling?

Speaker 8 (17:03):
I think we've got to look at the market in general.
Perhaps during the COVID period prices may have got out
of control. I think since then, Auckland is back twenty
four to twenty five percent in value, in Wellington thirty,
and I think the country seventeen. So I think what
we've had to do is take a great, big, deep
breath and pause and reflect. The development you're talking about

(17:26):
is by a developer called Ockham. They are experienced and reputable.
They build buildings in places people want to live, and
they create apartments and spaces that people want to live in.
I suspect what's happened is those you know, that project
now finished is probably four or five years in the
making from concept to the reality, and I think what's

(17:47):
happened over that time is the prices they needed to
get have fallen somewhat, so there is a disparity between
what they are prepared to sell them for and what
the market will pay for them.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Ah gotcha. So there's two things at play here. A
first home bar might be going Oh, house prices have dropped.
I can afford at home on that little section that
I want. And then you've also got the develops going.
We're not quite going to get the money that we
want for it here, So a couple of things potentially
on the happening here.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (18:14):
And the other thing is I think we should be
very pleased that the building's finished and then occupy and
can be occupied. Because you'll look downtown Custom Street there's
a forty story building that has been more than just
over half finished for a year and that almost abandoned.
We've got other projects around that have have sort of
not also been finished, and I'm just glad that this

(18:35):
project's finished. Whether you're a renter or an owner, there's
somewhere that someone can put a roof over their head
and call home.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
For a period of time.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Absolutely, is it just is it just not the key
we weigh? Are we a bit slow to adapt to
living in apartments?

Speaker 8 (18:53):
I suppose we've always had the benefit of large open
spaces where we've rolled suburbs out over time. You know,
back in the nineteen fifties, Glenn Dowie was a farm.
It's nowbia. So you know, you've got a lot of
these places which we've sort of grown into the north
shore of Auckland is a classic example as we rolled

(19:14):
through all of the bays. But I think what you'll
find scattered amongst all of it are a series of
apartment buildings, usually built on ridges or in places where
people can take advantage of the view. And they also
in our CBD, we have a number of apartment buildings
and they suit people at a certain age and stage,
so perhaps older people or downsizes, perhaps students coming through,

(19:39):
or perhaps maybe young families with lesser amounts of kids.
So I think that it's really good that we've got
that variety of housing forms standalone houses, terraces, apartments. So yeah,
there's a place and a need for that apartment style
of living.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
So right now it's a reflection of the market. But
actually this is what we need to be doing, isn't
it that you know we're talking about it potentially you know,
needing a couple million more homes in Auckland by twenty
fifty and the intensification is the way to go.

Speaker 8 (20:10):
Well, we've built a five billion plus CRL you know,
central rail loop, and I think it's really important that
we intensify around those rail stations. I remember coming in
from London to garden Or on the train and I
stayed at the aptly named Terminus Hotel eight nine ten
story building right outside the train station, a logical place

(20:32):
to put high rise developments. So I think that the
council perhaps a bit late to the game because these
plans should have been done when the CRL started. But
they've got thoughts that we're going to provide capacity, let's
not supply. That's an enablement of development potential around train stations,
and then it's also freeing up capacity in the rest

(20:55):
of Auckland for more housing, perhaps in more of the
traditional form.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Okay, look, if nothing else, it's great that there's more
rentals available. I suppose if you're building to rent, that's
a pretty busy part of the market at the moment.
So at least these properties are lessening the demand for
rentals in Auckland.

Speaker 8 (21:16):
I'm a great believer that we need to commodify housebook.
We need to bring it back to a level where
it's affordable for people to get into the market at
a first home level and then the second home level
or the next step up. So the more we can
take away density or land supply, whether that's up or
out out of the equation, the more we can suppress

(21:38):
that sort of supply demand curve where prices run away
because there's not enough land to develop on. So it'll
be interesting because we've got infrastructure problems in.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
The rest of it.

Speaker 8 (21:48):
But if we've got the right zoning in place, then
we've enabled development to happen. Not now, but we're planning
well for the future.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh well, that's good to hear. I'm I'm glad we
are because we always need to be a little bit
behind the april, don't we. Amish Hey, thank you so
much for your time. That was Mount Hobson Group urban
planning expert Hamish Firth. There. It is twenty six to.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Ten for Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
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Speaker 2 (22:16):
Thank you for your texts. Oh my god, the apartment's
going up in Belmont with houses next door all in
morning sun has gone nightmare. Text reads three reasons people
don't like apartments, ground rent, body corp fees and liability
when something goes wrong. Yes, I'm sure there's a few
too who are still, you know, dealing with the leaky buildings,
you know, and the fallout from that. I'm sure there's

(22:39):
some people who are a bit nervous about sort of
venturing back into that kind of apartment living again. I'm
not sure if i'd look I think I think I
get what Hamish's saying. It's an agent stage thing, right.
I think maybe at one point, you know, if I
had a sort of a nice little view, I could
think about moving into an apartment. But the problem is,
you see, whenever I see an apartment, I think, oh no,
I could live there. Cost more than a house does.

(23:01):
So it's not going to work as it anyway. Politics
time now news talks HEREP political report to Azaria howells
with me. Good morning Azaria, Good morning. So, as I
meantion earlier on, the GDP stats were weren't great for
the government this week. How damaging is this for Willis
and Luxon and what's the reaction being?

Speaker 9 (23:20):
Yes, starting off with a bit of a gloomy story
as tough economics showing. I mean, GDP figures out late
last week showed an economic depth of zero point nine
percent in the June quarter. That's much more significant than
what was expected the Reserve Bank of the country, the
Central Bank predicted I believe a zero point three percent
dep So this has been a lot more significant than

(23:43):
what we were sort of thinking we might see. The
Minister of Finance, Nikola Willis, is also facing some pressure,
but this pressure is coming from more economic conservatives. So
first of all, ACT Party founder and former Finance Minister
Sir Roger Douglas is calling for her to resign in
the interests of the country. Now those are some strong words,

(24:04):
essentially wanting the Minister of final to go harder on
slashing wasteful spending. Also, another form of Finance Minister, Ruth
Richardson is weighing in on this. She's not calling on
Nikola Willis to resign, essentially, she is calling for an
economic reset plan for further reductions in public service spending
as well as a look at superannuation. So there has

(24:26):
been some criticism from I suppose the economic conservatives there.
Now Labor leader Chris Hopkins is also weighed in on
this one, really taking a shot at the government. So
in a recent press conference which I was at, Chris
Hopkins said, and I quote, the entire government should resign,
not just Nikola Willis, all of them.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
But that sounds out of his mind.

Speaker 9 (24:48):
Azariah, Yeah, I mean, I mean, there were these questions
obviously from Roger Douglas, should Nikola Willis go? Chris Hopkins
taking the chance to really have a crack at all
of them at once, But that's coming from the other
political side, the leader of the opposition. Essentially, they're saying
a different take to what those economic conservatives are saying.

(25:09):
Chris Hopkins is saying the government's cut too much. Jobs
are being lost. So there's some criticism on both sides
of this one here, but the government has responded. They're
saying it's inherited a recession. Meanwhile, Labor is suggesting the
government's full of excuses. Also, the government is confident that
the current quarter will turn around. I mean, we're looking

(25:30):
at data from the June quarter. Potentially the current quarter
might have a better showing. Also, this came out when
the US tariffs rather were being announced and when that
was a major topic, so there's a bit more uncertainty
at the time, but it seems pretty certain that not

(25:50):
the entire government are going to have to resign due
to this.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Azaria Winston Peters is traveling to New York today as
the UN turns eighty. He's also going to attend the
Two State Solution Conference. Are we expecting him to make
an announcement regarding New Zealand's position over Palestine at the
UN this week or is he still in the process
of finalizing that.

Speaker 9 (26:14):
Yeah, so New Zealand is finalizing its position on recognizing
a state of Palestine. That decision is expected soon, potentially
not tomorrow, but in the next week or so. Is
when we're expecting it. So the Minister of Foreign Affairs,
Winston Peters, as you say, he's been traveling to New
York for the UN Leaders Week that's ahead of the
United Nations General Assembly and on the agenda, the big

(26:38):
talking point a discussion then a vote on a formal
recognition of a Palestinian state. Now this comes after France, Australia, Canada,
a number of countries have signaled their intent to support that.
Back home, there's been some cabinet discussions but no final
position taken yet on the matter. There's been a bit

(26:59):
of talking between the three coalition parties, ACT, National and
New Zealand. First they've agreed to come to one final
position on the matter, but it's caused a bit of
tension in the coalition. The ACT leader David Seymour has
said that we should essentially not recognize a state that's
holding hostages, that referencing har Maas. Now, that is despite

(27:19):
the Prime Minister previously saying any future governance arrangement would
not include ha Maas. So Winston Peters responded to Seymour
recently suggesting he broke an agreement. So that has been
quite a big talking point in terms of back home.
But the actual decision it will be made by Winston
Peters in New York. We're expecting that, and he will

(27:40):
be speaking to other countries about their views on this,
and really wherever New Zealand lands on this, it will
be a big deal and it will be a big
talking point. But we have seen other countries signal their intent.
I mean this has just come out in the last
few minutes I've been talking to you. UK Prime Minister
Kiir Starmer is set to announce that the UK will

(28:00):
recognize a Palestinian state and that is coming in the
next sort of day or so. So a lot of
movement in this space.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Azariah, thank you so much for your time this morning.
As always, that was Azariah Hall nestorals he'd be political
reporter yes, Winston Peters. He is leaving today. He'll return
to New Zealand on Tuesday, the thirtieth September, so I
presume before then we will have an idea about the
decision that's been made, right, Prime Minister. The documentary about
Desinda Aderna's hitting cinemas this week. You might have seen
it at the New Zealand International Film Festival. If you did,

(28:29):
I'd really love to hear from you what you thought
about it. Text me On ninety two ninety two. The
producer and one of the cinematographers on the project, clak Gated,
is with me after ten. It is seventeen to ten.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
The headlines and the hard questions. It's the mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 10 (28:45):
It's hard to hide from a number that bad, isn't it?
Gdpter zero point nine is not zero point three, and
it cause we're already up for the Finance Minister's quit.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Sir John Key back with us.

Speaker 11 (28:53):
I think what you've seen over the last eighteen months
there is a government that has been working hard to
get the economy straightened up after un miss it and
hears it, but it hasn't had a mate in the
Reserve Bank.

Speaker 10 (29:03):
Nicola Willison's of course, the Finance minister. Could we be
heading for a recession?

Speaker 12 (29:07):
In the first three months of this year, we grew
at zero point nine percent, twice as fast as economists
were forecasting. So we shouldn't overreact to a bad quarter.
We've got to keep playing the full game.

Speaker 10 (29:18):
Back tomorrow at six am The Mike Husking Breakfast with
Rain Drover, News Talk, Zed B.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Relax, It's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of Greg reads, Used Talk Zed.

Speaker 13 (29:32):
Be in the back garden, Pop You Puss Up week
You for our streep of Baby.

Speaker 8 (29:38):
What was that?

Speaker 13 (29:39):
I'm saying that this is the best single pair of
my life?

Speaker 7 (29:44):
Well, I want you.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Just like that.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Lord has kicked off her world tour in Texas. She's
getting rave reviews. What did Rolling Stones say? Show stopping
stage presents. I'm very excited about this because I've got
tickets for her gig which is in February here in Auckland.
She really good news was the set list was stacked
with favorites from all four of her albums, which is

(30:12):
great to hear. Apparently, one point she was in her
stripped down to box of briefs and a bright red
t shirt, and then she was sort of wearing the
same duct tape across her chest as she does in
the Manner the Year video. And then she was wearing
a vest of lights and surrendered the audience. It's all go,
it's full on. It's quite a performance. So I am

(30:33):
very much excited. She's playing Auckland Spark Arena on Wednesday
the eleventh, THEB. She's going to be in christ Church
on Friday the thirteenth, the THEB. I don't know if
tickets are available, forget them. She's awesome, She's fantastic and
concert always love catching Lord right. The finalists of the
Women's Rugby World Cup have been found this morning. England
getting up over France sounds quite raunchy for a Sunday morning,

(30:54):
thirty five seventeen to set up a final showdown against Canada. Canada,
of course, beating our Black Ferns yesterday morning, knocking them
out of the Cup, handing the Ferns their first World
Cup loss since tooth and fourteen. Alice Soper is in
England and who joins me now?

Speaker 7 (31:09):
Good morning, Alice, Good morning, well evening for me. How
are we doing.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
We're pretty good, you know, slowly coming out of the disappointment.
We'll get to this morning's game soon, but we're twenty
four hours removed from that Black Ferns result. Reflections on
the Black Ferns campaign.

Speaker 7 (31:27):
Look, it's a hard one, right because I can kind
of hold two things in my mind at once, which is,
on the one hand, obviously deeply disappointed as a fan
of our national team to not be seeing them in
the top match next week. But then on the other hand,
as a fan of women's rugby, there is a beautiful
sin Delarellis story attached to this Canadian team, so you

(31:50):
kind of can't help but get behind them and hope
that they go all the way. So yeah, it's been
a tough pill to swallow. But if we're going to
see anyone go through, if you're going to get beat
by anyone, I don't know. I think I'm probably quite
happy to have been beaten by the Canadians.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
You're right, though, They've got such a great story, haven't they.
They crowdfunded to finance their way to the tournament. They're
a semi professional side, like they don't have the infrastructure
of a big men's team behind then they can utilize.
What they've achieved is pretty impressive.

Speaker 7 (32:21):
Yeah, and also just how audacious they have been the
whole time, because the thing is with that crowdfunding. Just
to put this in a little bit more context for people,
it's not that rugby Canada is short shifting these women.
It's just that rugby in Canada is nowhere near the
established force that it is in other countries. And so
they you know, I think they offered about two point

(32:43):
six million towards the women's campaign, and so it was
that extra million that the women then fundraised on top
of that. So it's not like they haven't been supported
at all, But they just knew that they didn't want
to just turn up. They wanted to turn up and
try and win the World Cup. So that's why they
put the pudget together to try and get them the
best prep they could possibly have to go and get

(33:04):
the job done. And you know, ultimately it's that planning
and that preparation. Then you look between our performance and Canadas. Hey,
they had seven tests and the lead up to this
World Cup. Meanwhile we only had four, So they've spent
so much more time on the grass and ultimately that's
the timing that paid off when it came to the

(33:25):
semi final.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
How the Black Ferns feeling, of course, the first World
Cup loss since twenty fourteen. I know that that's going
to be hard, oh.

Speaker 7 (33:34):
I mean absolutely. And the standards these women hold for
themselves and for the jersey. You know, they put so
much into maintaining this unmatchable legacy of a World Cup team.
There is nobody that has ever had the success at
a Rugby World Cup, men or women that the Black
Ferns have, and that's because they demand high standards. They're
not going to be taking any type of excuse, that's

(33:56):
my job. They are just going to be feeling deeply
disappointed that they couldn't get the job done for New Zealand.
But I would imagine you will see them bring out
a big performance, even though it's a third and fourth
and sometimes that can feel like a bit of a
bit of taste in the mouth. They're going to want
to make sure that they send, you know, certain players off,
people like Porscha Woodman Worcliffe. This will be her last

(34:18):
chance to play in that black jersey next weekend, so
you can imagine they'll be wanting to, you know, at
least finish on a high.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
In that way.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
We had another cracker game this morning. We have our finalist. Now,
what did you make of England's performance over France.

Speaker 7 (34:32):
I mean, look, I think those of us had been
who had been predicting the matches this weekend, we all
kind of thought the New Zealand Canada match might be
very tight and we couldn't really pack at and we
thought that this other game was going to be a
bit of a blowout, and it kind of ended up
playing the other way. It's like the scripts got switched
and we didn't see I definitely didn't see that full

(34:53):
fight coming from the French. But then that's so typically French,
particularly at World Cups. You can never write this side off.
So to be five to seven, you know, at two
points behind at halftime unreal. There was a lot a
lot of anxious English bands. I saw them in the
crowd around me, and look, I think ultimately having given

(35:14):
them that rown, that's going to be good for England.
They've had a bit of a cruisy run into this final,
so they needed to have a little bit of sticky
that they had to try and climb out of. But
France just yeah, an incredibly brave side. They will never
let anything go against them. So it was as a
neutral just such a joy to watch that match.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
What kind of game do you expect next Sunday morning,
New Zealand time between Canada and England in this final.

Speaker 7 (35:40):
It's going to be absolutely frantic. I mean, if we
saw anything in terms of that pace, that tempo, you know, Canada,
I think they're averaging two second rucks like this is
such hot ball that they're playing with and seeing again
what England came out with, just the full house and
noise that they come it'spect just eighty minutes of absolute
flat tag ball in the air running rugby. And I

(36:01):
mean they know both teams probably have for a while
established themselves as being really enforces up front, having beautiful
set piece, but they can both turn on those transitions
and throw the ball around our toes. So oh, it's
going to be a beautiful final, and it's going to
be one.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
I'm not going to predict.

Speaker 7 (36:19):
I will be cheering for Canada just because it's physically
impossible for a New Zealander women's rugby fans a cheer
for England. I'm so sorry England. But look either way,
whoever wins, it's a win for the English domestic scene
because the PWR has built this dominance, that's the women's
top league here in England. It's built top the dominance

(36:41):
into the England's women's team. It's also built it into
the Canadians. Over half of their squad currently plays in
the PWR. So either way, the real winner is women's
domestic rugby and that should be the lesson that New
Zealand rugby has to take notes on.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
And great to see. It's a sellout, It's going to
be an amazing event, great game.

Speaker 7 (37:02):
I am so glad that I got my tickets early.
You know, look at you know, like a shame it's
not the Black Friends in the Big Final, but it
does mean that I just get to have a lot.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of fun.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Enjoy. Ellis. Always appreciate your time and your thoughts. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 7 (37:17):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
That was Alis Soper out of the UK. That final
between Canada and England takes place early next Sunday morning,
New Zealand time. It is six to ten.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News talksb.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Righty Hi, the former first man in New Zealand, Clank Gate.
That is with me next to talk about the making
of the documentary Prime Minister. We're going to talk about
how receptive just Sinda was to him filming him filming
her behind the scenes, and what he wanted to achieve
with the film. And I'm going to reveal to you
who is the surprising scene stealing star of this film
as well. So Clent Gay it is with me. Next,

(37:56):
We're going to finish the hour with some new music
from Shuboozi and jelly Roll. This is Men. The pair
are heading to New Zealand soon. They're going to play
Western Springs in truly November, pfectually.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
Somebody, somebody said prayer for me.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Hey man, somebody say a prayer for me.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
Somebody said a prayer for me cause the.

Speaker 14 (38:25):
Pills head out that I still taste.

Speaker 15 (38:28):
Somebody said a bird ups dance because the barn shut down.

Speaker 16 (38:32):
Then I'm gotting old and so s not gone.

Speaker 15 (38:36):
So somebody needn't working in in mom Somebody said a
prayer for me from mask afore it's a little mercy man,
So listen something las.

Speaker 10 (38:50):
Man, he said, listen.

Speaker 17 (38:54):
Somebody say.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Witkles for
the best selection of great breeds. New Stalk set be.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It is seven past ten, Newstalks. It'd be good to
have you with us. It's not often we see behind
the scenes into the private lives of world leaders, not
with any degree of intimacy anyway. But after Jacinta Adum
became Prime Minister in twenty seventeen, her then boyfriend Clark
Gayford started filming following family moments, pregnant moments, the hard times,
the start of an error. In the end, the unprecedented,

(39:45):
unprecedented intimate footage has been turned into a feature length documentary.
Clark is one of the cinematographers and producers. It's called
Prime Minister.

Speaker 18 (39:54):
I have three years to do as much as we can.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
But in the back of my mind, I thought, am
I going to do this with a baby?

Speaker 7 (40:02):
I just feel sorry for myself listening to that, because
I just have no idea what it's coming, Absolutely no idea.

Speaker 19 (40:09):
There were two groups on the island, those who were
evacuated and those close to the eruption.

Speaker 14 (40:15):
We only have six cases at the moment.

Speaker 19 (40:17):
This can only be described as a terrorist attack. Crises
make governments and they break governments.

Speaker 7 (40:26):
Things went wrong.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
It was my job to fix it.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Clark Gaitha joins me now from London.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
Good morning, good morning, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Thank you so much for your time. Look this documentary.
You've kind of called it a side project for the
last seven years. Are you excited that it is finally
out and about?

Speaker 15 (40:44):
Yes, it was one of those things where I never
really saw I didn't certainly didn't have the end.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
Product in mind when I started filming.

Speaker 15 (40:52):
It was just kind of a hobby on the side,
like a like a visual diary that I kept going.
And then at the end of it sat down and thought,
I wonder if I've got enough here to help make
a documentary.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
What did make you pick up the camera?

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Though?

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Have been I mean, you're a storyteller. You must have gone, well,
there's something here.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Well, it was the first.

Speaker 15 (41:13):
It was during the MMP negotiations back in twenty seventeen,
and of course with Winston Peters being in that pivotal
seat and not knowing which way it was going to go,
and I found myself down at Parliament and in the
Opposition leader's office where no media was and I was
there for the whole last day watching the back and

(41:34):
forth and the whispering and corners and the you know,
the speculative things that were going on. And I looked
around and I thought, man, no one's, no one's documenting,
there's no one's even taking a thing.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
And I didn't.

Speaker 15 (41:44):
I just thought, man, if I had a camera, I
should I should try and capture some of this. And
because I did film that, it sort of set it
set myself a standard where I thought, all, if I film, that,
maybe I should try and film a little bit more.
And I just sort of every now and then when
it was appropriate, i'd just pick a camera up and
picked moments off.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
And that's that's what started.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
It all rolling.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
What were you filming on? Because were you quite conscious
of not being obviously recording what was going on?

Speaker 5 (42:10):
If you know what I mean one hundred percent?

Speaker 15 (42:12):
Well, because I mean it was shot over such a
long time that I actually managed to upgrade my camera
several times through it. But luckily, look my backgrounds and media,
so I had friends that I shoulder tapped at the start,
just to borrow an old HD ten eighty p small camera,
but you did right.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
It was whatever I could get away with.

Speaker 15 (42:29):
Sometimes it was just pulling a phone out of my
pockets because that was all I could, or I may
have just walked past the press gallery moments beforehand, and
the last thing I wanted to do was field any
questions about something that I didn't have any answers to.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I do like the way you used the word you
know when it was appropriate. I pulled out the camera
were you often told it was inappropriate.

Speaker 15 (42:52):
I think there'd be an entire documentary of me being
told to stop filming partner, and I often felt that
the worst person in the world, because it would be
I'd often pick those moments at the end of the
day when they were was a quiet chance to capture
a bit of it, and it.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
Was sometimes reroduced.

Speaker 15 (43:11):
It was the last thing that I felt like doing,
and I certainly was the last thing that just Cinda
felt like doing commenting on, you know, a tough day
or something that had happened.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
But I just felt like if I just.

Speaker 15 (43:21):
If I just capture a few moments of this, it'll
be something that we might be able to look back on.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
I'm hugely impressed by Jainder's lack of vanity, because if
my partner was trying to film me at the end
of the day while I'm in bed trying to finish somewhere,
I would be telling him where to go, right, But
she actually was pretty tolerant of you and your.

Speaker 15 (43:41):
Camera, very tolerant, you know, like I was in a
I was in a pretty unique position there. I don't
think anyone else in the world would would get away
with that, and yeah, she, I mean a lot of
it will. And again I think it was because there
was no end. We weren't doing it.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
There was no you know, no studio, no pressure.

Speaker 15 (44:00):
It was just me picking up a camera that I
think helped capture those candid moments because yeah, it wasn't
we sat down at the end.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
And I think it is that footage which is what
makes this documentary so unique and so fascinating. It it's
more sophisticated than a home video, but it gives off
that sense of intimacy.

Speaker 7 (44:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (44:24):
Well, I mean, I think the thing that you know,
we put up on a h I certainly had on
a whiteboard at the start of the process, was just
trying to humanize leadership and trying to trying to put
a human face to what it means to be a
politician because we you know, the world we live in
is getting crazier and spinning faster and faster, and so

(44:46):
that was sort of the.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
Drive that.

Speaker 15 (44:50):
Made me want to pull this all together, which was
just showing the honest bits that can, as you say,
be you know, not all glamor in here and makeup
all the time.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
It is. It is kind of a messy business.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Because this isn't really a political examination of just in
as time as Prime minister. It is more of a
personal look at a job that only a handful of
people do get to do. You know, what is it
in particular that you wanted people to know about this job?

Speaker 15 (45:19):
I think its just just touched upon. I mean, the
job is all consuming and I think that comes across.
I always joked that there were three of us in
the relationship, me Her and the cabinet papers, because they
would they would often be strewn across the bed late
into the night, and that was you know, five or
six days a week, and just trying to get across

(45:42):
a bit of the fact that it was people in
the room armed with the best information they had to
try and make the best decisions they could on whatever
it was that was the issue of.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
The day, and you get that sense the weight of
responsibility that she carried.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (45:58):
Yeah, it was a pretty it was tough on all
of us, but yeah, particularly through what all of New
Zealand's been through over the last few years, it's it's
been a rollercoaster.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
We see that cumuative effect of dealing with some of
the biggest tragedies that New Zealand has faced in recent times,
and we see the toll that it takes on Jacinda
has writing the memoir and putting together this documentary. Has
it allowed her time to sit with it all, which
is kind of an expression that she uses in the documentary.

Speaker 5 (46:29):
Yeah, to decompress.

Speaker 15 (46:31):
When you've seen right from the start of the film
that she had no interest in self examination during her
time in office, and I think even afterwards we both were,
you know, looking to just have a break from it.
But the book forced her to go back into that space,
which was worked really well for us in terms of filmmaking,
because I didn't feel like I was being a bullying

(46:53):
partner by trying to make her open it all back
up again because it was a chance for her to
go through it as well.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
You bravely ask your wife whether the job would have
been easier if she delegate. Was it frustrating for you
watching her take on all that responsibility.

Speaker 15 (47:12):
It's yeah, like just I would often just be gobsmacked
at the at the volume of reading before going to kebinet.
But you know, just into superpower is the way that
she she is on top of everything. She's across it all,
and she stores all the detail in her And I
remember asking her if someone could summarize some of the

(47:34):
work that was coming home, and she remember pulling out
a stack of papers and said, each one of these
requires a decision, and that decision, you know, needs to
be made by me.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
I can't, but I can't, you know, skip any of this.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I finally, you know, chet GPT had kind of been developed.
The PDF version had been developed a little earlier.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Yeah, just give it to me in graph form only exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
At one point in the film, Justinda also talks about
the impact of the job on her wider family, on
your parents and you know, all the insane rumors that
you had to deal within things. So what impact has
the last eight years had on you.

Speaker 15 (48:10):
Well, I think I'm still probably not in a complete
position to answer that question. Here am I talking to
you from the other side of the world where I
never thought I'd end up. But has been a sort
of a lovely little moment in time over here. I
could have never imagined how things were going to be
from the moment that she became leader, and it was

(48:33):
like a whirlwind going through that.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
And yeah, it has been.

Speaker 15 (48:37):
It's been hard on all, not just us, but everyone
in New Zealand. And I think it was a pretty
tumultuous time with all of the things that we've all
been through that there are a lot of you know, certainly,
I think that what we're going through is not necessarily
unique in terms of.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
Some relationships with friends and family and as strong as
they used to be.

Speaker 15 (48:56):
And you've found other people in other ways, and it's
been a real reshuffling of things.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
How do you feel about the job that your co directors,
Lindsay and miss el did, especially with the.

Speaker 15 (49:07):
Edit great I mean, we always wanted this to be
as honest as possible. I never censored a single frame
of footage that could be shown, so to hand it
over and they both They both bring such a unique
take to it. Obviously, Michelle with her New Zealand roots
and sensibilities had that, but Lindsey having her impeccable backgrounds

(49:33):
through the likes of American Factory.

Speaker 5 (49:34):
But she'd also.

Speaker 15 (49:35):
Done the Taylor Swift and the Billie Eilish docos, and
what I really liked about seeing those was that she
would have had to sit. I knew that she would
have had to sit through hours and hours and hours
of boring studio footage. So I trusted. I trusted that
she would shot log some of the stuff that I'd
shot and turn up turn up what they needed to.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
And she didn't let me down.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
How many hours of footage did you give her?

Speaker 15 (49:59):
I never added it up, but it was it was significant.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
I did love them. The fake laundry shot that they
can captain that they just ran a little bit long,
so the Clark couldn't get away with pretending that every
night he grudgingly did the laundry. That actually this was
just a little sup and new shot for the camera.

Speaker 15 (50:18):
Yeah, that was one of those little nuggets that we
wanted to turn up on a long cut that I
got to see because they'd sort of present it. Every
few weeks, I went, someone has done their homework. They've
found that weird obscure GoPro that I tried to set
up in the back of the room because in my mind,
I'm like, do I need a backcut on this?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
There is there is a little scene stealer in this film.
How adorable is that young girl you're raising? She is
such a delight. How does she take after you? And
how does she take after Jasinda?

Speaker 15 (50:51):
Oh well, I have just to check that Justinda's out
of airshot before I answered this.

Speaker 5 (50:56):
Definitely parts of us both.

Speaker 15 (50:59):
We often debate where the strong world stubbornness comes from
which side of the family. But there's no short of it.
She's she's her own person and yeah, just a joy
to be around every every week or two. Is it
all changes, It's a changing landscape.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I'd look. I know that you have been working, but
you've also been a stay at home dad. What has
been the best thing about parenting?

Speaker 6 (51:22):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (51:22):
Wow, how do you answer that? And it's a sixth sentence.

Speaker 15 (51:26):
I mean, just been there for the for the stages,
and that I was just looking back at some photos
of just to think it was only a year and
a half ago when we first got out of New Zealand,
and I'm.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
Like, look at the little face and it's changed. And
she used a word tonight. What was it? Bizarre? She
came and Dad, that was just bizarre.

Speaker 15 (51:43):
And I remember that word being used in sentences last week,
and you know, just watching those changes firsthand and being
up close and watching that as kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, it's so special, isn't it. Okay, So next project?
Now you've got this one sort of semi wrapped up.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
What's next?

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yes, you got a bug?

Speaker 5 (51:59):
There is a great That is a great question.

Speaker 15 (52:01):
I've sent out a few emails in the last wee
while I'm doing a bit of sniffing around. Would love obviously,
you know, I can't not miss being in the ocean,
having that as a background. I'd love to find a
way to get back there. But yeah, and I'm not
sure opened to suggest you think it should? Ask chech
GPT might help.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
No, please don't. I'm sure I'm sure that you will
come up with something on your own. Hey, Clak, we
really appreciate your time. Thank you very much for the
documentary and rest of luck.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
That was Clak Gayford, producer of documentary Prime Minister. It
is in cinemas this Thursday. I would like to hear
from you if you saw it at the New Zealand
International Film Festival and what you thought of it. Ninety
two ninety two, don't forget that. After eleven we speak
to one of the journalists who was leaked some information,
some data about Tesla's auto Pilot which has just become
available here in New Zealand over the last couple of days,

(52:53):
as well as other inside information. Yes, if you were
quite keen to try out the full service driving that
is offered by Tesla, you might just want to have
a listen to this, to this interview to give you
a few questions that you might just want to ask
before you install that hardware. So we will be talking

(53:14):
to Sinker Ivison who discovered who was given by whistleblower
all this informations. Anyway, that is coming up after eleven.
It is twenty one past ten.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of Great Breeds, News Talk.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Sat be.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Hey. The new Wickls Kids Top fifty is out now.
Wikles have tallied up the thousands of votes received from
our youngest readers and compiled a list of their current favorites,
and once again it is a great mix of recent
new releases and the classics so beloved by so many
of us over many years. It has proven very hard
to shake Harry Potter from the top of the list,

(53:57):
and he's back at number one this year, but is
in the company of eighteen titles by New Zealand authors
and illustrators and fifteen titles or series new to the list.
The Kids Top Fifty is a great way to help
a child excuse me, find their next favorite book. There's
a breadth of reading ages and themes and there is
truly something for everyone excuse me. With the Kid's Top

(54:21):
fifty great books, toys, games and puzzles and gorgeous stationary,
there really is something for everyone. At work calls the
Sunday Session kicking off with a little bit of our

(54:46):
entertainment segment with a little bit of Chapel Roan the
Pops Superstar has been announced as the headline act for
next year's Laneway Festival in Auckland. It's going to take
place on Thursday, February fifth at Western Springs. Her music's
really exploded over the last couple of years. She won,
of course Best New Artist at this year's Grammys. Last year,

(55:08):
Charlie XYX Highlight was the headliner at the festival, and
I think they've done a pretty good job with lining
up another impressive headliner. So if you're a Chapel Roon fan,
that's where you will need to be right Join me now,
Steve Youll, editor at flixstot cod On Z.

Speaker 20 (55:22):
Good morning, good morning, And first of all, it's a
cracker Laneway lineup, a really really good bill together undoubtedly
really strong headliner and Chapel Rohan. But while these artists
might not be immediately relevant to some of us older listeners,
it's a really strong, sort of second tier part of
this bill with wet leg.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I love it. It's embarrassingly only no wet leg because
I saw them at Harry Stars when I went with
my daughter.

Speaker 20 (55:48):
And isn't that the whole point of a support slot?
That's great, Hey, there would be great if New Zealand
artists had the support slot for all international shows the
way I would exactly the same effect.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Okay, moving on, I like that nice little dig in there, Steve,
Let's talk about Jimmy Kimmel because a lot of his
colleagues other late night TV hosts have been speaking out
about the situation he finds himself in. Have we got Felon? Yeah,
listen to this.

Speaker 21 (56:19):
Well, guys, the big story is that Jimmy Kimmel was
suspended by ABC after pressure from the FCC, leaving everyone
thinking WTF. But to be honest with you all, I
don't know what's going on, and no one does, but
I do know Jimmy Kimmel and he's a decent, funny
and loving guy, and I hope he comes back.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
That was Jimmy Fallon there?

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Do you have to be?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Everyone's called Jimmy? What did you think about what he
had to say?

Speaker 20 (56:44):
It's interesting from Felon personally have a strong agreement with
the sentiments, but Fellon sort of has played an interesting
role with late his own late night show and the
rise of Donald Trump. Sore back and twenty sixteen, there
was an interview on The Tonight Show where it was
well and we were infamously like rustled his hair, like
messed with Trump's here and in the wake of that,
he fell and come in for a lot of controversy

(57:04):
criticism for normalizing the cand it then and has said
that subsequently, I made a mistake. I'm sorry if I
made anyone mad, and looking back, or do it differently,
like basically not holding into any account, like continuing the
sort of cartoonish.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
Portrayal of Trump.

Speaker 20 (57:18):
Trump is a celebrity rather than Trump is a political candidate,
deserving of critique on that level. But there's a very
interesting relationship between Trump and late night TV, right, Like
you sort of think about the era that he came
up in the eighties New York, late night TV was
an agenda setting part of the media landscape. Probably not

(57:38):
so much now right, It is like a kind of
declining media, and this is a sun setting part of
the industry. So it's no surprise. I think he has
made himself a fantastic target and fought for lots of
jokes in that environment. But it doesn't surprise me that
he has a long list of grievances with these hosts.
And some people have pointed to Fallon's a joke at
the Oscars asking sort of acquiring whether the president's watching

(58:00):
or maybe might have been former prison at that stage,
and noting is he still watching? Maybe it's past his
jail time. So that's kind of the that sort of
the battle that's been going. So it doesn't surprise me
that this war has been brewing. However, very very fast
decision to suspend fallon Sorry Kimmel, the Jimmy's. I would
note though, that everyone is acting like the show has
been canceled and discussions are continuing about how to bring

(58:25):
the show back on air.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Do you think it will be better?

Speaker 20 (58:28):
Yeah, So this is why, like Kim has been very quiet.
Apparently he's been guided by a lot of concern for
his staff and the livelihoods of his crew have already
suffered tremendously through the pandemic with their livelihood, so he's
really looking out for his team. But it would seem
that he's been asked to apologize, and like the day

(58:48):
that his show was yanked, he was going to clarify
for the Discuss's remarks, but wasn't up for an apology.
So these discussions are happening in the background, his crew
continuing to be paid, and in the meantime, Yeah, people
are interesting. A coalition of people who joined the criticism
from Ted Cruz and Karl Rove through to Pedro Pasco
and the Writers Guild of America. We're packeting Disney, and

(59:11):
among those signs, we saw a lot of signs sort
of referencing and Or their own show about the rise
of fascism. And interestingly, and Or writer Dan Gilroy who
won an Emmy for an episode which has a very
protracted speech decrying the rise of fascism, and he himself
has commented saying, our industry faces the most sophisticated, venomous,

(59:33):
creeping evil in America's history. There's no standing above this conflict,
no impartial observers. If you're on the sidelines, you've made
a choice and must live with it. So the rhetoric's high.
I don't know how Disney is going to resolve this
from a corporate point of view, because they're about to
annoy a whole lot of people whichever way this goes. Interestingly,
yesterday I noticed Facebook, I've been served a Disney Plus

(59:56):
ad and the comments hadn't been switched off on the
Disney Plus ad, and there were hundreds and hundreds of
comments referencing canceling subscriptions, referencing bringback Kimmel. There was no
one sticking up for the decision. So this for this
part of the world. I imagine people sitting in the
New Zealand and Australian offices of entertainment companies probably find
their jobs get a lot more difficult because of a convenient,

(01:00:19):
knee jerk business decision in the US.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Right, if you'd like a distraction from the real world,
there is one available for you at the Show Me
Shorts Film Festival, which is New Zealand's leading international short
film festival. And I love this festival. There is always
just it's a treasure trove of just creativity and amazing
short films and stories and things. I tend to think
it can be harder to tell a story succincly in

(01:00:45):
ten minutes and it is an hour and a half,
and so you know, there is a lot of craft
on show with these short films.

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):
Big time.

Speaker 20 (01:00:52):
And a full disclosure, I'm a board member of show
Me Shorts, but that's as recently as last year. Show
Me Shorts was turning twenty this year, so I've had
plenty of time to be an impartial observer.

Speaker 8 (01:01:02):
Yes, and enjoy what they do.

Speaker 20 (01:01:05):
The festival's done a fantastic job of betting in the
idea of going out to watch short films in a
movie theater, and it's a great environment to actually give
them the full focus they deserve. At the same time,
over this twenty years, like as everyone knows, like the
rise of short form contents actually really helped this, Like
it's really normalized watching these shorter stories and the things
you can do within that timelinit Like it doesn't have
to be a complete narrative arc of a feature. There

(01:01:27):
are some documentary shorts, so maybe you're not going to
completely escape the real world. But as part of this
year's celebration of turning twenty, there's also a retrospective element
to this festival as well, some of the best films
from those past two decades coming too. Screens runs from
October seven to twenty seven. There's one hundred and twenty
seven screenings around the country and eighty three short films
in the program. You can head to Show Me Shorts

(01:01:50):
website to find out more and we'll see at some cinemas.
The opening night party at the Civic is going to
be a biggie yea looking forward to it, and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
We should explain to people what they do is they
curate them really well. So when you go to a session,
you might see four or five or six.

Speaker 20 (01:02:02):
That's a treat point, that's aoko point. Should have mentioned, Yes,
you're not buying a ticket to watch us a seven
minute animation.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
It's good.

Speaker 20 (01:02:08):
It's a really curated mix of stuff. And I think,
like like anytime you've gone down a good YouTube rabbit hole,
like one that's for entertainment's sake as opposed to current events,
what's coming next is always going to be interesting, even
if like for that five minutes it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Always your company.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
They'll always be quite different and they'll be Yeah, they're
gravy for different reasons. Show me shorts dot co dot
in z is where you can find that program. Thank
you so much, Steve oh And Robert Redford passed away
this week. I found quite sad about that.

Speaker 20 (01:02:39):
Indeed, there's my favorite Redford anecdote that came this week
was that I don't know who started this, but this
is his friendship with Paul Newman, that one of them
gifted each other. I think it was Redford giving Paul
Newman a really crappy car then just delivered it to
his house, and then a while later a crate got
delivered back to Redford's house and it was just molten metal.
And then Redford made that into that made into a

(01:02:59):
sculpture and dropped into Paul Newman's yard and the two
never talked about it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
I love it and look I I went to flex
dot cod oion z to have a look and to
see if I could find some Robert Redford films that
are available. You can pretty much rent or by whatever
film you'd like to see. But I did find a
few that you could get you could watch for free.
If you've got a Netflix subscription or Disney there are
a few on there that are available for you, including
Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid.

Speaker 20 (01:03:26):
And I'll also pipe up and say that if you're
Auckland based, the Hollywood Evandale are having some retrospective screenings
to celebrate celebrate Redford.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
I'm just grabbing that right now.

Speaker 20 (01:03:39):
But that will be a really great opportunity to see
some of these films that otherwise you wouldn't really get
a chance to see them on the big screen run,
so you wouldn't. They are screening, so just go to
the Hollywood. Yeah, they're playing the way we were the
playing Butch Cassidy, they're playing the Hot Rock. So it's
a nice selection of some of the greatest films. And
that's October fourth, fifth, and ninth.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Nice, Thank you so much, Steve. It is twenty five
to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
News Talks at.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Doctor Michelle Dickinson joins us now with a fascinating study,
how are you good morning?

Speaker 18 (01:04:18):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
I think we all get to that age and stage
where suddenly we were going I can't really read this
menu very well, or I realized that my eyes were
slowly aging. When I couldn't thridder thread some cotton through
a needle, I was like, good, this is taking you
for a long time. But it's something that happens to
most of us, isn't it.

Speaker 18 (01:04:34):
The dreaded pres biopia. Yeah, it happens to all of
us as we get older, sadly just to eye muscles
just are as strong as they used to be, and
we've become fast sighted, which means that we can't really
see the thing. You know, when you're holding a book
at arms length and your arms don't get any longer,
like okay, So how do you solve it. Well, right now,
you can get some reading glasses. Some people do surgery

(01:04:56):
and have lasic, neither of which are amazing. And so
this new study has just come out this week, and
I think it's pretty amazing because basically they're saying that
you no longer need reading glasses or surgery, or you
need are eye drops. So the study has just come
out in the Congress of the European Society of Cataract

(01:05:16):
and Reflective Surgeons. It is not peer reviewed, it's an
abstract and the research was just presented, so you can
read the abstract online. But basically I'm going to tell
you is everything they've got. They took seven hundred and
sixty six patients, all of which have pres BOPO, meaning
they can't read things close up, and they gave them
these eye drops that have two drugs in them. One

(01:05:38):
of them is called a pilocarpine, which has been used
before and has been seen to have good effects on
helping you to play with the muscles in your eye,
but it's always been known to cause irritation, be a
bit painful. People are like, oh, my eye's hurt, so
they've stopped using it. So what they did is they
combined it with DICHLOPHONEC, which many of you may know

(01:06:00):
is just an anti inflammatory, and so the anti inflammatory
basically eases the discomfort from this pilot carpene that has
been sort of working on the eye muscles. So the
pilocarpeen does a few things. It contracts the eyes what's
called the Sillery muscle, which is the one that contracts
the focus lens. It makes your pupils smaller, which can

(01:06:20):
affect how much light goes in and therefore it helps
to sharpen the focus for near viewing of objects. So
this is amazing. So within one hour of putting these
eye drops in, patients could now read an extra two
or three lines on a near eye vision chart. Now
that is a difference, being able to read the menu
or not reading like that is a life changing difference.

(01:06:43):
And they said the perfect dose was two drops twice
a day morning and sort of mid afternoon, and the
positive effects they saw for as long as a study around,
which was for two years. So in two years, these
people taking eyedrops twice a day were able to not
wear glasses anymore and be able to see text in
front of them. Without having to put their arms out,
read their books, read their menus, reading dimly lip places.

(01:07:06):
And so this drug sort of acts like a workout
on your eye, sort of helping the muscles to get stronger.
And yeah, and within one hour of the drops going in,
the patients could see the only side effects they had
were very minor. Three percent of people said, oh, I've
got a bit of eye redness or irit it. Stuff
you'd get from eye drops anyway. But putting in this
anti inflammatory stopped all the other side effects. So no pain,

(01:07:28):
people weren't bothered by the eye feeling tense. And one
point eight billion people globally have prespopia, so it's a
pretty significant thing. As you get older, it's going to
happen to all of you. So maybe the next solution
is going to be some eye drops and there's some glasses.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
So I should say, fascinating, Thank you so much, Michelle,
appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Mike Vender's Elson, Mike vendor Elson, this is his name.
He's been really trying to convince us to get onto
the some cold smoking heat. The cold smoking isn't he
I don't know if you've got a cold smoker yat
he's trying very hard to convert us, and he's at
it again, but he has a rather exotic sounding smoked
chocolate cream breulat for us. Next, it's eighteen to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio Power Blay
News talksb Righty How.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Our resident chief Mike vander Ellison is with us.

Speaker 11 (01:08:17):
Now, Good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
I'm very intrigued by today's recipe, a smoked chocolate cream Breuleet.
I don't think I've ever had one of these.

Speaker 11 (01:08:26):
Sounds a bit fency.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
It does sound quite fancy.

Speaker 11 (01:08:30):
So this recipe does require something called a cold smoker,
which you can easily go out and purchase. Just go
online search cold smokers. There's smoke Ki, there's UFO smokers.
They're around two hundred bucks.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
For a smoker.

Speaker 11 (01:08:44):
But once you get one, you will love it and
you'll keep it forever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Well, what else would you use it for?

Speaker 11 (01:08:49):
Absolutely every Because it's cold, there is no limit to
what you can smoke, and so there's no cooking going on.
It's all about flavory. The smoke basically settles on top
of what you're smoking. So think about Danish better. We
do that a lot here at good perspects, Like we'll
break the fetter up, I'll fire into the smoker for
about two to three hours. The smoke settles on top

(01:09:10):
of that better and then you put it into a
mixing and you just kind of mix in some cream
and it becomes like.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
The smoke better.

Speaker 11 (01:09:18):
Butter, the classic. Just go and get some unsalted butter,
cut it up into little cubes, smoke it for about
two hours, and then sprinkle over a bit of flaky
salt and pull it together and it's the most amazing
smoked butty we ever had. You can smoke lemons before
you deserve them. You can obviously smoke some salmon. You
can smoke your raw sausages if you want to parts
some flavor before you cook them. One of my favorites

(01:09:40):
is probably smoked mushrooms. So flat mushrooms, field mushrooms. Just
put them into the smoker so that the fins or
the underside of the mushrooms pointing out, so then the
smoke settles into those fins. Leave them in there for
about four hours, then pull them out a little bit
of all over the top, a little bit of flaky salt.
Fire them in the oven until they're just got and
then you can do whatever you wash through pasta turn

(01:10:01):
into mushroom resh amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Okay, I wasn't aware that we could get a cold smoker.
So there we go.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
Great and so every day.

Speaker 11 (01:10:12):
Yeah, and it's the recipe this week is smoke chocolate
cream brew let. So how do we get the smoke
into that so you could potentially smoke the chocolate. Chocolate
is really dense, so it's going to be hard for
that smoke to kind of settle on that chocolate curt
Instead of smoking the chocolate, what we do is we
actually take four hundred mills of cream, put that into
a like a roasting trail or some sort of a

(01:10:33):
vessel container that can hold it, and then put the
cream into the smoker. Smoke that for about an hour
and the smoke settles on top of the cream, and
then you make your dish out of that cream. Imagine
making mashed potatoes and you've smoked the cream before you
add it to the mash.

Speaker 22 (01:10:49):
Oh other big fan.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Hello the way you get yourself excited about these well, so.

Speaker 11 (01:10:57):
Quickly running through the recipe, turn your RB nine hundred
and forty degrees non fan four So no fan going
place your your cream into the smoker. If you don't
have a smoker at this point, just skip to that
course or that part. Place the cream, one hundred grams
of good quality chocolate and four tablespoons of cast of sugar,

(01:11:18):
and then I've got a half a vanilla paste or
half a pot of vanilla. Chuck the whole pot of
vanilla into there, put it into a saucepan over medium heat,
and then just bring that slowly up to up to
the cimmer. Don't allow it to boil, otherwise the cream
will splits out, so just bring it up to it
just where it just starts the bubble on the outsides
of the pan, turn it off, and then into a
pot you want to go, or a big bowl. I've

(01:11:39):
got five egg yolks that have been whisks and one
whole egg with that, and then slowly add in your cream.
Remove the vanilla pod with that or in. Once that's combined,
skim off any bubbles that are settling on the surface,
and then pour them into oven proof bowls like ramikins
or like little cups. Place that into a roasting tray

(01:12:00):
and then pour some boiling water into the tray so
it comes up about halfway up the sides, and that
slow the whole crocking of the creamberlays down and prevents
the cream relays from splitting. Fire that very carefully into
your thirty five minutes. It's going to take until you
want a decent sort of wobble on it, and then
pull them out, allow them to call, and then their
classic sprinkle a little bit of sugar over the top.

(01:12:22):
And then if you've got a creamberrelay torch, which is
probably the idea, or some sort of a burner, burn
the top of it until it's nice and dark and
that's your smoked chocolate clay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
There we have it. Sounds amazing. Thank you so much, Mike.
You can get that recipe from Good from Scratch dot
co dot in z or news Dog zb dot co
dot in z, Forward Slash Sunday Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and we'd calls
for the best selection of gras used talk zed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
B Join me now to talk wellness. Erin O'Hara, good morning,
good morning. Well it is a world gratitude day to day.
It is well a tude day.

Speaker 23 (01:13:00):
Time to be grateful, I'm very crazy here.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
You've turned up today. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
But seriously, I mean, we talk about gratitude a lot.
It's kind of become a sort of has it become
a little bit trendy.

Speaker 23 (01:13:15):
A little bit, I don't think that's more and more
research out there around gratitude.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
And I think sometimes when we think about health, we can.

Speaker 23 (01:13:22):
Get so focused on physical health, so what we're eating,
how we're exercising, how we're sleeping, and I think sometimes
it actually gets missed, is thinking even doing things like
what are you grateful for today? And having that positive
mindset is actually huge when it comes to your health.
And when they did some studies, they did the nurse's
study group, and they looked at gratitude for that group

(01:13:45):
of study people, and they have a nine percent lower
risk of dying when they are more grateful. So there
are a lot of benefits from even just having the
right positive mindset towards life and being grateful for all
the amazing things that are around you. And it shows
that improving physical health. It has the benefits of strengthening
immune system, lowering blood pressure, benefiting your heart and cardivascular function.

(01:14:10):
Also helpful for a better night's sleep. Is being grateful
a positive self esteem and self worth helping.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Menage stress, anxiety, depression.

Speaker 23 (01:14:20):
Like, the benefits are huge and it's something we can
so easily do and bring into our everyday life. Is
actually being more grateful and being more thankful and having
a positive outlook.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
It's probably a very silly question, but how do we
practice gratitude in day to day life. Well, there's lots of.

Speaker 23 (01:14:36):
Different ways to cultivating gratitude, and obviously the one that's
probably the most put out there in the community is journaling,
which is not forever. I'm personally I'm not a journalist,
don't like journaling, but you know what, there's other things
you can do. So it's about being pacific of what
are you grateful for rather than just like, hey, thanks
for that, and said be like, thank you so much

(01:14:57):
for doing this for me for these reasons, and actually
putting more effort into being grateful and even how you
present that to the person.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
You're Yeah, it's just a little aside. I've noticed recently,
I've had amazing customer service from people, whether it was
the lovely electricians that fix my heat pump or I
was in a shop buying something and people were hugely
grateful I was spending their money with them. But do
you know what, I really noticed it, and it rubs
off on you. You then go thank you for that,

(01:15:28):
thank you for that, and then you find yourself showing
a bit of gratitude just someone you know like.

Speaker 23 (01:15:33):
And it's amazing how it can flow in that way.
Is actually being grateful for each other. And this is
a day really about reflection and this has been around
since the sixties as World Gratitude. Jay may have never
heard of it before, but actually taking this day to
be like, Okay, what am I grateful for today? Grateful
for yourself, maybe sending out some grateful thoughts to other people,

(01:15:56):
maybe voicing it to someone. Also shifting your perspective and
having that positive mindset towards even when you're in a
difficult time, is okay, what can I be grateful for
in this sort of situation. The other sort of one
that I really love and that we probably don't do
as much as we used to is thank you cards.
It's like how many people put out thank you cards
after maybe someone's done something nice here and you've seen

(01:16:18):
them a lovely thank you card that you've put some
hard and soul into it, of like, thank you so
much for doing that for me. But these things actually
give us feel good vibes and actually that is what
actually helps both our physical and mental health as well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Thank you so much, Erin appreciate it. Very grateful you
here today. It is six to.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Eleven the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
iHeartRadio powered by News Talks. I'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Well, that was a very interesting conversation Erin and I
just had about thank you cards. I was saying how
I used to make my children write thank you cards
every time they got a prison or they stayed at
a friend's place in the holidays or something. And my goodness,
they were really average thank you cards. But you know,
I'm glad that I made them do it. Eron tells
me now that it's not very common after a wedding,
if you've thrown a witty the you send thank you

(01:17:07):
cards to people saying thank you for coming, well, thank
you for the gift. Surely people do anyway, Mine two
nights too if you want to make a comment up. Next,
we have got German investigative journalist Sinka Iverson with me
to talk about his book The Tesla Files. It's a
tale already on behind the scenes at Tesla and how
Elon Musk likes to do business with his Electric Empire.

(01:17:30):
We're also going to talk about some issues around the
auto drive which arose as well, and that is of
course something which has just become available here in New Zealand,
so you might want to have a listen to this interview.
We'll be back with you shortly.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
Rutkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Seven past eleven. Good to have you with us. Coming
up this our Jason Pine is with us on Liam
lawson Sensational Qualifying Session in Formula one. Ever wonder whether
you were buying a flexi ticket or do you go
for the cheapest ticket regardless of what it is, while
Megan Singleton talks us through how to use a flexi
to your advantage and fans of slow horses will be

(01:18:38):
thrilled to hear that mckherron, the author of the books,
has a new book out that's coming.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Up shortly the Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
First up this out we take a look at an
expose on the inside workings of Elon Musk's Tesla. Back
in twenty twenty two, investigative reporter Sunka Ivison received one
hundred gigabytes of confidential leaked data from a whistleblower inside Tesla.
The files detailed dangerous autopilot software errors, are high number
of workplace accidents in Tesla's factories, and a culture of

(01:19:09):
fear within the company. Sonka's investigation is now a book
called The Tesla Files or Whistleblower, A Leak and a
Fight for Truth, The inside story of Musk's Empire. Sonka
Iverson joins me, now, good morning, Thank you so much
for being with us.

Speaker 14 (01:19:24):
Sure, good morning to you too.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Tell me what were your first thoughts when a colleague
called you and said he'd received a call from a
confidential informer who claimed to have information about serious issues
at Tesla.

Speaker 16 (01:19:39):
Well, I thought it would be nice, but it sounded
too good to be true, because he also said that
information was just lying around there and inside Tesla. I
couldn't believe it. But of course, if somebody tells me
he's working at Tide, there's a possibility to talk to
somebody at working at Tesla. You have to take it
because at the time Tesla was a complete black box

(01:20:01):
and nobody inside Tesla talked to anybody outside, and so
a great stroke of luck.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
So in a situation like this, how do journal let's
go about checking the integrity of the informer and the
data that you're being offered.

Speaker 16 (01:20:16):
Well, it's a long process, it's At first, he didn't
want to be The problem was he didn't.

Speaker 14 (01:20:23):
Want to be named.

Speaker 16 (01:20:25):
He didn't want to give me his name, didn't want
me to know who he was, exactly where he was,
all those things.

Speaker 14 (01:20:33):
But he kept sending data.

Speaker 16 (01:20:35):
I mean, one file and another file, not the twenty
three thousand files that we actually came to possess after
a few weeks. But it was so tantalizing the information.
And at the same time I talked to my boss,
I talked to our lawyers, and they said, well, you
have to make sure that this is really You have
to get over there and see him actually pull it

(01:20:56):
out of the system, because that's what he claimed, that
anybody at Tesla could access this top secret information with
no security at all.

Speaker 14 (01:21:04):
So we did so.

Speaker 16 (01:21:06):
After a couple of weeks, I finally convinced them and
he gave me so to speaker display a performance. He
actually accessed the information in front of me, and it
seemed all true that he could access the information if
he typed in the words Elon Musk, and hundreds of

(01:21:27):
files came out, and I saw the well, the bills
of Elon Musk, bodyguards and anything I asked him to
type in it all there was a receis reception and yeah,
then the next day we copied the first nineteen gearbytes
or so, and then we started verifying goals.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
So I imagine the thing that struck you first was
the fact that you could actually access all that an
employee could actually access all this information before you even
got to kind of working out what was in the information.

Speaker 16 (01:22:01):
Yes, yes, that was the actual first implausibility, because I mean,
Tesla was the most valuable car company in the world,
by far, more valuable than Volkswagen and Mercedes and BMW
and all those together. And Tesla or Mosque specifically was
so paranoid. He always said everybody else is out to

(01:22:24):
get him, the oil industry, the diesel car industry, the politicians,
the media. That's why everybody inside Tesla was told you
must never talk to anybody outside. And when you start
working at Tesla or started at that time, even when
you had your first interview, before you before you had
your first interview, you would have to sign an NDA.

(01:22:46):
So the level of secrecy was completely out of this world.
And then to have that peril to anybody can access
any information at all, that didn't just didn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Did you get to the bottom of why a tick
billionaire was so relaxed with say, seemed to have little
protection in place for such highly sensitive information.

Speaker 14 (01:23:11):
No, it's we.

Speaker 16 (01:23:13):
Never found out how, I mean, why they wouldn't talk
to us. They still haven't answered a single of our questions.

Speaker 14 (01:23:24):
It's just perplexing.

Speaker 16 (01:23:26):
And later when when when when we started, when you know,
we went through looking all of the twenty three thousand,
I mean, imagine how how long that takes, twenty three
thousand documents, and we had to get each and every
one of them because we couldn't be sure what we
were missing and we were afraid to miss anything. So
but then we found actually that there had been warnings

(01:23:47):
inside Tesla about this mistake, this this uh completely unsecure
the level of insecurity, and later the actually the guy
who had warned about it was later fired for it.
So it's just a very situation that didn't make any

(01:24:07):
sense at all.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
What else did you find in the files that really
caught your attention?

Speaker 16 (01:24:14):
Yes, once we got over the hurdle that why do
we even have the information? We saw what really impressed
us or just our brains went wow, how can this be?
Was all the information about the autopilot, because there were
thousands upon thousands of complaints of customers about their cars

(01:24:34):
accelerating by themselves, breaking by themselves. That's called unintended acceleration.
They even had terms for unintended acceleration and phantom breaking
that's when your car stops without you wanting it to,
and that happened in tunnels, even in tunnels, I mean
imagining your car stops in a tunnel. And so we
were checking all what Elon Musquet said about the autopilot,

(01:24:58):
and for the longest time he has promised, or not
just from announced basically to the world how secure the auto,
that it was ninety percent better than any human driver,
and that autonomous driving was a solved problem that goes
back as far as twenty sixteen. And here we have
all these complaints of customers. So obviously there was a

(01:25:22):
big gap between words and reality.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
So clearly they did know that they had a problem.
So how did they address that.

Speaker 16 (01:25:31):
They told the customers that it was their mistake. There
was actual actual commands, so to speak, not to put
anything in writing. We have that we have that bit
of information or communication where it says, let's not put
anything in writing here, do not speak on the on

(01:25:53):
the voice boxes, mailboxes of anybody, don't need voice messages,
don't send any letters, no emails. At one point there
was a guy who wanted to kind of gather all
the information about these autopilot's problems together, and he was
told no, with the with the explanation that Tesla did

(01:26:18):
not want to be open so to speak, to subpoenas.
If the authorities would come in and subpoena them, they
would find all the information. Then they didn't didn't want that,
so it would be better not to if at all,
if they needed they would It would be spread all
around the company, but not in one place.

Speaker 14 (01:26:35):
So yeah, that's that was very perplexing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
So would you say, from what you learned when you
look at the way the autopilot developed over a series
of cars and things, could you say that really they
were developing it as they went that maybe the expectation
that was sold to a customer wasn't quite what they
were actually providing.

Speaker 16 (01:27:03):
Actually that that was what became clear to us. Elon
Musk he is a Silicon Valley guy, and that is
the Silicon value approach. You know, when you put out
a game or some kind of other software, when you're
almost done in that world, you send out the software

(01:27:24):
to the customers and they will complete it for you.

Speaker 14 (01:27:26):
They will find all the errors and then.

Speaker 16 (01:27:29):
Report back to you, and that way you get a
better version and then another better version. I mean, if
you depending on how old your listeners are, if they
remember the Windows three point zero or three point one
or so, those were very glitchy software, but they were
sent out by millions and then over time all the

(01:27:50):
glitches were taken out. And Tesla has taken that approach
and applied it to vehicles that weigh a ton two
tons and travel at you know, one hundred kilometers or
faster per hour on the roads. And it just seems
awkward that we're all in this kind of testing area

(01:28:10):
of his, that he's turned all the roads into this lab.
But he says, well, that's the fastest way to learn,
and it's really important that we do this as fast
as possible, So he's fine with it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
A lot has of course taking place in the last
sort of year or so, and the book finishes just
as President Trump is elected. Do you think that Alan
saw himself as a shadow president.

Speaker 14 (01:28:35):
Well, definitely.

Speaker 16 (01:28:38):
He explicitly said, I'm going into politics to stop all
these silly investigations or maybe not silly but stupid investigations.
In his mind, he knew full well that all the
investigations like I just laid out that the SEC actually
was investigating. Is what he's doing there? Is that being
very hopeful, optimistic or is that actual?

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
You know?

Speaker 16 (01:29:01):
Of course stock manipulation, market manipulation, investigations into the autopilot
software investigation is about free speech and hate speech, not
not getting hate speech in X and all that, and
he expecially, I don't want that to stop. And so

(01:29:21):
I'm going to get a guy into the White House
that is going.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
To owe me.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Do you think that Elon Musk is actually cut out
for politics?

Speaker 14 (01:29:32):
It's not really him For the last I mean the last.

Speaker 16 (01:29:37):
Nine months, I guess you could say a.

Speaker 14 (01:29:40):
Totally extraordinary for him. It's not.

Speaker 16 (01:29:43):
He always said he didn't want politics. That's not for him.
And it's such a long game, a complicated game. And
he's the tech guy. He wants us to take humanity
to Mars. He has much higher goals, and I didn't
It seems that he didn't expect Trump to be that
just you know, taking his money and then cutting the

(01:30:04):
text benefits for his electric vehicles.

Speaker 14 (01:30:07):
That apparently he didn't expect.

Speaker 16 (01:30:09):
That, and that he's founded this or is trying to
find to come up with this Third American Party. It
seems to me a little bit out of spite, maybe
out of the moment, the anger of the moment. Afterwards
he's already given him more money now Trump that it
doesn't I mean, Musk has given Trump additional money. Why

(01:30:30):
would you do that if you have your own party.
He has to get into the good graces of Trump
again because otherwise, you know, Tesla has actually lost money
in the first quarter. They were in the red with
the car business. They were only profitable because they were
selling the CO two emissions. And if that is that's

(01:30:52):
going away, it doesn't look very good for his company.
And it's it's it's very costly to run that bigger company.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Why are we so intrigued by musk.

Speaker 16 (01:31:03):
Well, I don't know. I'm I want to stress I'm
not against trust in anyway. I'm not putting him down.
I'm not saying, you know, he's a fraud and some
people say that. Obviously he's a very intelligent guy. I mean,
who else has created a car company in the Western
world at least in the last what five six decades?

(01:31:23):
And not only has he done that, he's created the
most valuable car company in the world, and he's sold
more electric vehicles than anybody else. I mean, I'm from
Germany and we have to admit that the very old,
traditional and maybe arrogant car industry in our country did
not do what he was able to do as an outsider.

(01:31:46):
And also what he's accomplished with Space X that if
NASA wants to get back the astronauts from the space stations.

Speaker 14 (01:31:53):
They actually have to call him.

Speaker 16 (01:31:55):
So obviously the guy is really, really smart and I'm
a great businessman. At the same time, he's got all
these flaws, so it's it's really hard to see what
will happen next. We'll just watch and as a report,

(01:32:17):
I mean, we're not done refritten this book and detailed
all in this book. But we're continuing to report what's
happening in the newspaper and maybe there will be another
book soon.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Oh, it's lovely to talk to you, and thank you
very much for the book, very very much enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
Thank you.

Speaker 14 (01:32:33):
That's nice to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
And that was investigative journalist Sunka iverson The book we
discussed is called The Tesla Files and it is in
stores now. The panels up.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Next Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin
and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
He's talk.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
And joining me on the panel today we have got
zb Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills. Good morning, Nick, morning,
how you doing. I'm really good, nice to talk to you.
We're also joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Good morning,
good morning, Happy Sunday. Okay, So guys, we spoke earlier
this morning to an associate professor of law who deals

(01:33:13):
with a lot with the media and the First Amendment
and things where we're talking about this Jimmy Kimmel case
and things, and he made the point media companies need
to be stronger. Individuals need to be stronger and not
about to pressure like this. What are your thoughts on that, Nick, Well.

Speaker 17 (01:33:28):
I mean, obviously it's the right doing the left thing,
isn't it. I mean it was a real left thing
where you said the wrong thing, you look the wrong way,
you know, you looked at the knees instead of looking
at the eyes.

Speaker 4 (01:33:38):
You got on yourself into trouble.

Speaker 17 (01:33:40):
Now rights are doing it as well, because it's just
almost like the freedom of speech is gone.

Speaker 4 (01:33:46):
And as a talkback host, it scares me.

Speaker 17 (01:33:49):
It really does scare me, because you say the wrong thing,
get a call from your boss later in the afternoon,
and you're gone by the morning.

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
Nick, It's as simple as it is right now.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Have you ever had a call from your boss in
the afternoon?

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
Can I take the tuft on? Matt?

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
I love it? Lest you're honest about it?

Speaker 11 (01:34:06):
What about you?

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
What I mean? I mean you're in the media. Do
you find it concerning? Oh?

Speaker 19 (01:34:09):
One hundred percent? I completely agree. It is a scary,
scary prospect. You know, we talk about this idea of
free speech, but the unfortunate reality is, and particularly overseas,
free speech doesn't really apply to a commercial operation. And
I want to sit here and say that media companies
they should stand up, they should push back, But ultimately
they're a business, and with the current state of media,
they're going to take the path of least resistance. And

(01:34:31):
when I say path of lease resistance, I'm not talking
about doing that with audiences.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
I'm talking about doing that with decision makers.

Speaker 19 (01:34:37):
In this case, it seems the tentacles of politics they've
made this way into this whole decision. When you look
at what's happening at the top, it was US broadcast
Media regulator that threatened Kimmel's network, the head of which
is a Trump ally and has the power to block
I think it's a six point two billion dollar merger
for the company. So ultimately, unfortunately it filters down to business,

(01:34:58):
it filters down to the bottom line, and it makes me,
like I said before, really sad that it's come to this.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
And you raise a really good point. They willing me
because media and journalists they pay an important role within democracy.
And yet a lot of media companies, and you you
have to look at us here in museum, are struggling.
It is hard to stay aflow, It is hard to
keep going and play that role without having this sort
of pressure on top one hundred percent.

Speaker 19 (01:35:25):
You can't annoy advertisers, you can't annoy decision makers. We're
trying to be independent and thought leaders, but we're dancing
this really delicate dance because we're so reliant on commercial partnerships.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:39):
I mean, Nick, you raised a really good point there
about the woke right to which is coming out. But
I've actually been really I've felt really good seeing people
like Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro and Ted Cruz coming
forward and going, hang on a minute, you know, actually,
this really isn't a Democrat versus Republican issue. It's bigger
than that. It affects all of us, and none of

(01:36:00):
us feel that mister Kirk would have wanted his death
to be used as a pretext for crackdonnald.

Speaker 17 (01:36:07):
I mean, the whole thing is so so wrong. I mean,
it's just so so wrong that you cannot actually get
up and say what you want to say.

Speaker 4 (01:36:17):
You've got to think about it.

Speaker 17 (01:36:19):
And you know yourself, when you turn the mic on,
you're thinking two sentences ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
Instead of actually being yourself. You're thinking, can I say that?
Is that okay?

Speaker 17 (01:36:28):
To say that, will I get myself into trouble saying
you know, just basic stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Yeah, And I don't necessarily worry about if I'm going
to get into trouble. I think we should all probably
think a little bit more before we speakably as part
of the job. But for me, it's more about, you know, okay,
if there's some common sense in my thinking here, that's
probably more at.

Speaker 4 (01:36:50):
The end of the day.

Speaker 17 (01:36:51):
The end of the day, if you had had a
script written to complain about something or talk about something,
and you knew that they were a major advertiser for
the station, would you go ahead with it?

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
See the silence is gold.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
You run a few trucks through there, can't you. Well,
I mean I'm grateful I haven't been, but you know,
I mean I'm grateful in it because I've never been
told here. I've never been told what to say. I've
never been told who to align myself with. I've never
been you know, it's never a risen.

Speaker 17 (01:37:22):
No, never have I been told to have an opinion
that's not my own. And I wouldn't do that. I
would not turn the micro on and give it an
opinion that's not mine. Never, ever, once have I been
told say this, say that, do this, do that. But
I've also mindful that if I said something that was
a major advertiser, would it would be a stupid thing.

Speaker 4 (01:37:41):
To do because it's upsetting somebody.

Speaker 17 (01:37:43):
Like sometimes I had a view on Friday, I had
a very strong view on something political, and I have
never ever in four and a half years copped the
abuse on the text machine like it. And that's just
that's the same thing. It's a reality. If you put
your head up, you're likely it's going to get chopped.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Have you dealt with that in the past.

Speaker 19 (01:38:01):
Wilhelmina, Yeah, Look, I am very conscious. I would never
let it stop me from sharing an opinion. But I
also think that it's about the delivery, and I think
it's about how you package up that opinion. Have you
done your research, you know, have you got statistics, have
you got lived experience? Have you spoken to people who
have perhaps experienced something that you've spoken and formed an

(01:38:21):
opinion about. And I think that that's what the difference
is between saying something that's really knee jerk and controversial
and something that is perhaps an opinion that not many
others agree with, but has been delivered in a really
measured way, because at the heart of it, it's about
igniting debate and discussion and having a constructive conversation. And
I don't think anyone should filter what they're saying. I

(01:38:41):
think it should just be about the delivery and the
time that you take to form that opinion.

Speaker 17 (01:38:47):
At the end of the day, though, if that opinion
is not what your listeners want to hear, you can
package it up, you can research it, you can give
the facts, you can do all those things.

Speaker 19 (01:38:56):
That you'll still I'm sorry.

Speaker 17 (01:39:00):
I'd love to agree with you, but I'm sorry it's still.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
To party.

Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
Murray.

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
My colleague headed to Plasy Allen has written an article,
her piece in the Herald today and she said, look,
she said, she's making the point that center voters are
not ready or are not comfortable with having a political
part and like to party Marie an extreme left wing
radical party, as she calls them, helping run the country.

(01:39:31):
And she's making she's making the point that you know,
Labor really should just rule out running, you know, being
in a coalition with the next election. And however, she
also sort of says, look, there are a couple of
reasons why they might be holding off. You know, they
might want to see whether to party, Mauri is going
to calm down a little bit, or whether there's enough
support to win without them, and things like that. Where
do you stand on this, Wilhelmina. Do you think that

(01:39:54):
now is the time that labor need to be ruling
them out or have they got that time to just
sit and wait and see how things unfold.

Speaker 19 (01:40:01):
I think that they're obviously polling pretty well at the moment,
and I think that they have an opportunity to really
write that high here. I think they're more likely to
pinch votes from the center by distant seeing themselves than
they are if they actually align themselves. And I think
that they can afford to make a bold move. I
know that they obviously aren't. They're not rolling it and
they're not runing out. It's a safety blanket move. But

(01:40:22):
I actually think sometimes you've got to wrap the ban
it off, you've got to risk it.

Speaker 14 (01:40:25):
To get the biscuit.

Speaker 19 (01:40:26):
And I think that they should probably make a stand.
I think it sees more by doing something and making
a decision than sitting back and you know, waiting for
a better offer or waiting for something to happen. Or
waiting just in case because they need that buffer.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
I feel like Nick, these days, when it comes to
an election, we start preparing for that election so much
further out than we used to, you know, Like I
feel like we kind of switch into campaign modes so
much earlier than we see.

Speaker 17 (01:40:55):
I've got a really simplistic view on this from sitting
behind a micro microphone fifteen hours a week. My view
is this Labor is riding a wave by doing absolutely nothing.
I mean, they haven't even told us the last time
they went to the toilet. I mean, they've given us
nothing and they're riding the rest of the crest of
the wave.

Speaker 4 (01:41:15):
Why. Because we're unhappy as a nation right now. We're unhappy.

Speaker 17 (01:41:19):
We're not getting the results that we were promised. We're
not getting the Champagne as quickly, and we all know
the reasons why. We all know it's still coming, and
we all know that. So Labor are not going to
do a damn thing well while they're riding the wave.
If they make one move, it's a bit like Andrew
Little going for the mayoralty and Warrington.

Speaker 3 (01:41:39):
What day is it?

Speaker 17 (01:41:40):
I'm not sure I could answer that question, you know
what I mean? They just they know that they know
that they're on that wave. They're going to sit there
and ride up to the last moment. And I think
they're very very wise, very very wise to say nothing,
do nothing, don't agree with some of the outlandish, crazy
activist things at both parties. Both parties they have to
join with her as crazy as each other. I mean,

(01:42:02):
and National can sit back and the Coalition can sit
back and say, well, by the way, look at the
alternative and we'll go, oh yeah, let's get back in
the line.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
They're not doing nothing. Chris Hopkins called for the resignation
of the entire government on Friday. There you go there.
I just thought that was hilarious. I was like, you're
already are mine, my friend. They've just handed you a
really easy hit on a plate and that's what you
came up with. Anyway. Wilhelmina Shrimpton and Nick Mills, thank
you very much for joining us on the panel. Up next,

(01:42:31):
Sport with the Jason Pine.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
Coming up at midday here on News Talks, they'd be
Jason Pine with Weekend Sport joins me. Now, good morning,
good morning. So that's a pretty good night's work for
Liam Lawson.

Speaker 22 (01:43:06):
Lutely third on the grid. We know, man, I'm nervous now,
sim I. Look, I think we're supposed to be though,
aren't we were supposed to be? Like when you know, when.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
He's I'm excited for him.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
I'm too.

Speaker 22 (01:43:18):
When he's fifteen sixteenth on the grid, just say okay,
well it can know you're up from there. But third,
I think, man, there'll be some guys, there'll be some
guys up as bumper.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
Sure, Look, he can still move up, he could still go.

Speaker 22 (01:43:28):
Up, correct, correct, But wouldn't it be amazing to see
him on the podium. That would just be I mean
when you think back to you know, the start of
the season with Red Ball, two races and then drop
down to the Racing Bulls team, all of that turmoil
he went through. He's kind of rebuilt things through Racing
Balls and it's sort of been a bit up and
down here and there, but he has, you know, gradually improved.

(01:43:48):
And here we are, third on the grid. I know
it's only the grid and there's the race to come,
but man, you know the prospect of a key. We
on the podium for as I understand it, the first
time since nineteen seventy four in Formula one. Would be incredible.
In the early house of tomorrow morning.

Speaker 2 (01:44:04):
This drinks a little bit more that it'll be great.
Jason Hey, A very exciting overnight at the World Athletic Championships.
Maddie was she third in the shot put.

Speaker 22 (01:44:18):
Yeah, incredible. I love Meddi wishes. She got our silver
in the shotput at the Paris Olympics last year and
I remember chatting to her afterwards and she's just so real,
so authentic, you know, and maybe that's the superpower. But yeah, bronze,
which makes it three medals now with Jordy be Mish
and Hamish Kur winning gold. Of course we're fifth on
the medal table. Incredible. Plus outside of that, you know,
we had three competitors in the women's pole vault final.

(01:44:40):
We had Tom Walsh. Just outside the medals, We've had
Zoe Hobbs twelfth in the world and the one hundred
meters Tory Morby made the final of the women's javelin
finished seventh. This is a bit of a golden age,
I reckon for track and field here and there may
be more to come over the next two or three
years as we head towards the next Olympic Games. So yeah,
pretty exciting time for athletics in our country.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
Toam certainly is. But it was a shocker last night
for the Raiders, wasn't it in the nas Done?

Speaker 22 (01:45:05):
All done?

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
You know?

Speaker 22 (01:45:05):
You think about last week when they thought they'd won
that game against the Broncos only to be denied by
the Bunker.

Speaker 2 (01:45:10):
And now they're out.

Speaker 7 (01:45:11):
That's it.

Speaker 22 (01:45:12):
Yes, they were premiers, you know, regular season winners, but
now they can get ready for Mad Monday tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:45:17):
That they're done.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
They're out.

Speaker 22 (01:45:19):
They're out, so you know, we now look ahead to
see what happens overall. I think they'll still be pleased
with the silverware, but most people remember more who won
the Grand Final rather than who won the regular season,
which is a bit odd really because regular season you've
got to be good over twenty four games, where you know,
to win the Grand Final you've got to be good
over three or four games, you know, albeit knockout games.

(01:45:39):
So yeah, that's a funny old one for the Raiders
to digest. But you got on the Sharks. They're through
to within one game of the Grand.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
Final, and of course tonight all eyes are on the
netball they are.

Speaker 22 (01:45:50):
Thank god, we've got some on court stuff to talk about.
Although this afternoon Grace Wiki is going to join us
on the show just after one o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
How's it been?

Speaker 22 (01:45:57):
You know, how has it been, as they've tried to
put to one side, you know, the most tumultuous time
in the history of the sport in our country to
focus on playing some nitball tests and is there a
divide in this playing group? How has she found it?
You know, Dave Nole Lean was her biggest advocate in
terms of changing the eligibility rules, and now she's come back.
I don't think Grace Wik has ever been in the
Silver Ferns without Dave Nolan as her coach, So yeah,

(01:46:20):
be interesting to pick her brain after one o'clock as well.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
And England Canada are going to fight it out in
the Women's World Cut Rugby Final next weekend. Who have
you got your money on?

Speaker 4 (01:46:30):
Go Canada?

Speaker 5 (01:46:31):
Same, go Canada?

Speaker 22 (01:46:33):
Maple surrept things like that. I think I think we're
all Canadian fans now, aren't we. England will be favorite,
England will be favorite. But I heard Alice on earlier,
and she's dead right. It's hard to be two things
at once, you know, really already gutted for the black
first to admire before. We're so impressed with Canada. I
hope they win. I don't think they will, but I'll

(01:46:53):
be cheering for them.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
I will be too. Peney, have a great show. Jason
Pane will be back with you at midday on Weekend Sport.
It's eighteen to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:47:03):
It's a Sunday session full show podcast on radio powered
by news Talks atb Travel with Wendy Woo Tours Where
the World is Yours for now?

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
Joining me is Meghan Singleton, blogger at large dot com.
Good morning, Good morning. I had some conversation with a
friend the other day who said to me that whenever
she's flying for work, she always books a flexi ticket,
and she books it for at often at the end
of the day, and then if she can leave early,
she always changes it. And she said, I very rarely

(01:47:36):
stick to the original flight that I booked and love
having that flexibility around a flexi flight, Whereas I'm just
a cheap I'm just cheap and poor, and I just
always looked at the cheapest possible option to get me
from A to B, and that's the flight I have
to go on.

Speaker 24 (01:47:52):
Well, this is a little hack that I read about
on a website called New Zealand Travel Tips, so I
knew that you could get the flexi change fair on
any New Zealand we're talking, and you can change your
flights as many times as you like for just the
cost of the difference of the flights. There there is
a cost, but there's no change fee cost, right, and
then those changes fluctuate. To remember, it's a dynamic pricing system.

(01:48:13):
So here's an example of what I did back at
the beginning of the year. I booked tickets to go
to Wellington for WOW. But this was before we'd actually
bought our WOW tickets. So here's a tip for our
listeners that if you do have some things that are
coming up, maybe the dates are a bit unpredictable, a
new baby is coming, or you've got a poorly parent
you need to visit often, or like this case, there's

(01:48:34):
an event. I haven't quite bought the tickets yet, but
I want to lock in the good prices. I went
online and I bought myself a flight to Welly from
Auckland at eight thirty pm on the Friday, and I
actually forgot until this week that it was eight thirty pm.
So I came to look at it and I went, oh,
my goodness, eight thirty that's not going to work. So haha,
I've bought the Flexi change Fair, haven't I. So I

(01:48:55):
went in and I was able to change it to
seven thirty in the morning for an additional twenty five dollars. Interestingly,
I could have gone later in the morning for three
hundred dollars. When I checked the next day, gone later
in the morning for two hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
So that's how it.

Speaker 6 (01:49:09):
Kind of works.

Speaker 24 (01:49:10):
Yes, so much, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But then, as
it happens, we've had a family bereavement, so now I
need to be in Hawk's Day this week as opposed
to Wellington. So I didn't know that the Flexi Change
Fair also allows you to change your destination and the date,
so for no extra cost, I'm now going to be
flying to Napier in the middle of the week and

(01:49:34):
then we will all drive to Wellington.

Speaker 4 (01:49:35):
For a while.

Speaker 24 (01:49:36):
So that's a little hack.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
Well that's really interesting because actually that makes sense. Why can't.
Why shouldn't we be able to change your gestation? But
I would never have thought of that either. I would
have thought, oh no, this is for my flight from Ada,
band that's the one I'm changing. I'd still have to
stick with that same destination, so you can use that
flight and have any other domestic flight and.

Speaker 24 (01:49:57):
You simply just go in to manage my flight on
the app. Because I thought I'm going to have to
ring them and beg, you know, no, manage my flight,
and then I could choose any other destination, any other date,
any other time, and you just pay the fair difference.
So as it happens, there was no fair difference and
there was no cost to me at all.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Well, I'm very pleased that that worked out, Meghan, because
I don't think begging is going to get you anywhere
with the airlines these days. But take care, Thank you
very much for that. It is thirteen to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
Books with Wiggles for the Best Election of Greek Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
Joe McKenzie, good morning, Good morning. Well, you've got a
couple of rippers for us today, both authors I think
a lot of our listeners will be familiar with. We've
got a new book from mcheron to start with, yes,
and we love mccheron.

Speaker 13 (01:50:42):
Yes, it's called clown Town. And for anyone who is
struggling to place mccheron, he's the guy responsible for the
series of books called Slow Horses, which were also made
into a terrific Apple TV series. But I always maintain
that the book is always better because you get so
much nuance in it, and you're right back at the

(01:51:02):
origin story of the things that happened. So slow Horses
is a term that comes from a building called Slour House,
and it's full of misfits and rejects from I five
who operate under the direction of Jackson Lamb, who in
the TV series is played by Gary Oldman, who's absolutely
brilliant and mckhern is. He's cynical, and he's wry, and

(01:51:28):
he's witty, and he's utterly merciless in the way that
he portrays these people who've all in some way been
let down by I five or they have let am
I five down, and hence they've been banished to essentially
this Siberia of slough House. And there are several plot
lines in this new book which converge at the end
in a brilliant ending. It's about some former I five

(01:51:51):
members who were deployed in Ireland during the troubles and
they want compensation for what happened to them then and afterwards.
And then the woman in charge of five, who's a
brilliant character, Diana Tavna, she's being blackmailed by a former
MP who has a very compromise tape recording on her.
And a book goes missing from a curated private collection

(01:52:12):
which turns out to have been a repository of state secrets,
and all of these things converge and they call in
the slow horses.

Speaker 2 (01:52:19):
So what could possibly go wrong? You're right, But for
all of it it's cynical and all these other things.
It's also so funny at times.

Speaker 13 (01:52:26):
It's so black and funny.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
Absolutely absolutely, And Young Chang has a new book out.

Speaker 13 (01:52:33):
She does. In nineteen ninety one, she wrote a book
called Wild Swans, which.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
Was honestly one of the best memoirs from mother to
daughter and true families.

Speaker 13 (01:52:43):
It was fitting because it was about three generations of
her family, her grandmother, who at the start of the
book was born and then had her feet bound, her mother,
and herself, and it worked its way through the Cultural
Revolution when Yung was just a child. And this is
a sequel, and it's kind of a personal and a
global memoir because it tells the story of what happened

(01:53:04):
since the first book, but it also talks about the
transformation of China into a real superpower, and it's a
love letter to her mother. Her books are banned in China.
She used to go back every year to see her mum,
but until under Jijinping, the political climate made it impossible
for her because he said that anyone who insulted or
slandered the state would go to prison, and that's how

(01:53:27):
they saw her books, which are banned, all of them
in China. But the story of their lives is just extraordinary.
Her parents were remarkable, Her life has been remarkable. She
went from the communist state to the wild Swans phenomenon
and great wealth exiled essentially living in England, and how
she reconciles those two things is really quite extraordinary.

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
Wonderful. Hey, big news, the Kid's Top fifty is out,
the new list, which is very exist it is and
I noticed that you've got eighteen titles by New Zealand authors,
fifty newcomers, and I love the fact that almost half
the books vacture animals. Of course, yes, good, isn't it.
Were there any surprises on the list for you? Do
you think.

Speaker 3 (01:54:11):
Surprises?

Speaker 13 (01:54:11):
I'm not sure about. Certainly some newcomers. Dreams Slinger by
Gracie Kim, who has heard of her book, has made
the list, and that's really nice because again it's new.
The Alla Diaries are enormously popular with some young readers.
There's a series called Bunny Versus Monkey which has made
the list. The book called The Wild Robot which came

(01:54:33):
also as a movie and it has been hugely popular.
I've not read it, but it sounds terrific. So there's
a lot of really good new stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
Okay, if you need a new idea for your kid, well,
she's great for the kids to have it. Look through
the list, browser list and put a few marks on
because you know what Christmas is coming, Joan, And I
know it's ridiculous what I'm saying that in September, but
it is. I'm already thinking of it.

Speaker 13 (01:54:51):
And I'll just say that there's a real breadth of
age groups and themes, so there'll be something here for
every kid.

Speaker 2 (01:54:57):
Brilliant. So that's the Kid's Top fifty. You can see
that online or you'll be able to find it if
you're in store as well. Yeah, there we go. The
books that Joan was spec spoke about today clown Town
by Mick heron Clowntown It's quite hard to say clowntown.
And also Fly Wild Swans by Young Chang.

Speaker 1 (01:55:16):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks AB.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
Thank you very much for joining me this morning on
a Sunday Session. Next week, my guests are Ken Follett,
author of Pillars of the Earth. He is back with
another epic historical novel. It's called Circle of Days, this
one set in twenty five hundred BC. We're also going
to talk to the founder of pub qui Astra Jorgensen.
Have you heard of pub quar Oh, it's just been huge,

(01:55:45):
it's just taking off. Anyway, She went on, America's got talent,
and her talent is getting the entire audience to sing
this song Toto's Africa. Anyway, she is going to join
us to talk about pub quir next week on the show.
Thank you so much to Kerrie for producing the show.
Of course, it is a school holiday, so we've got
the jruggle going on here at News talksb Right's going

(01:56:06):
to do drive to our so I'm going to pop
in early at five am for some early edition Fingers crossed.
Hopefully the alarm goes off. Don't forget Silver Fins versus
South Africa at seven forty pm tonight on Sky Sport.
And also if you want to catch Liam Lawson at
Baku he kicks off. That kicks off at eleven pm tonight.
See you in the morning, enjoy the rest of your day.

Speaker 1 (01:56:28):
The wild dogs cry out in the night as they
grow restless, longing, moresome, solitary.

Speaker 3 (01:56:35):
Come, I know that I must do what's right.

Speaker 7 (01:56:42):
Sure as killing and Joe Rorison cycle as.

Speaker 3 (01:56:46):
Above the sav Game.

Speaker 1 (01:56:52):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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