Full Show Podcast: 25 May 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks ed B.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best selection of great reads News Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Welcome to the Sunday Session. Lovely to have you with us.
I'm Francesca Rudkin. Wreck you until midday now. Currently playing
in cinemas is a film called The Salt Path, starring
Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs. It's based on the true
story of Raynor and Mothwin, who found themselves homeless and
broke in their early fifties, and in the same week
that they went bankrupt, they learned that moth had a

(00:49):
degenerative brain disease and two years to live, so they
started walking. They decided to walk and live on the
Southwest Coast Path, a beautiful but challenging six hundred and
thirty mile walk, a journey that raynaw shared in her
memoir The Salt Path. Rainaw is with us are the
ten and to finish off New Zealand Music Month, we

(01:10):
have the fabulous Georgia Lines in the studio for a
song and a chat. She's up for four Altier Music
Awards this Thursday for her debut album, The Rows of Jericho,
and she has just released a new song and she's
going to play it for us after eleven. Also this
our David Seymour on becoming Deputy Prime Minister in a
week and the Golden Run is all over for Auckland FC.

(01:30):
And it's always your most welcome to text anytime throughout
the morning. On ninety two, ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Two the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
For government, which champions an urgent need to increase growth,
to cut wasteful spending and for less reliance on government,
they sometimes take a relaxed approach to doing something about it.
Take the proposed change for eighteen and nineteen year olds
to no longer be eligible for an unemployment benefit. It
sounds like the government's taking a decisive stand until you

(01:59):
find out it's not going to come into practice until
July twenty twenty seven, and that how it's going to
work hasn't been thought through it this stage. I can
see the voter appeal of the government saying they don't
think eighteen year olds should have the option. The day
after their birthday of heading the couch at home where
they play PlayStation and collect the doll. No one wants
to see healthy and capable young people taking that approach,

(02:22):
So Shirley Cabnet could come up with the rules for
exceptions and get this in place by mid next year.
If they're serious about cost cutting and changing young people's attitudes,
then while we're waiting two years. This may be one
of those ideas which sounds constructive and purposeful to voters,
but the government is aware current economic conditions aren't right

(02:42):
to make it work. They will want to be confident
young people can get a job, particularly in areas with
high rates of youth unemployment. They will want to be
confident students students studying to be apprentices can get an apprenticeship.
With youth unemployment currently at twelve point nine percent, is
a scheme even workable? The rate for twenty to twenty

(03:02):
four year olds not an employment educational training is high
still fifteen onero point seven percent at the end of
the March courters, So what does this mean our teenagers
just wait to hit the twenty before hitting the job
seeker benefit anyway, putting the emphasis back on parents to
support their kids may also be a bit of a
non starter. Sure, taking benefit payments away from teenagers may

(03:23):
give parents more sway with their teen but generally I
find teens aren't always great at doing what they're told
and when it comes to financial support. As much as
many parents are encouraging their children's independence at fifteen, they're
likely already supporting their kids somehow free rent, cash for
weekly expenses while studying, covering other expenses like a doctor's

(03:43):
visit or paying car insurance. But for many families, supporting
their children until they are twenty is unachievable. Yes, there
are some parents who can step up, and they should,
but no one wants to see parents who will already
struggling struggle even more so will does policy have a
meaningful impact on the nine thousand young adults who fall
into this category? We know people under the age of

(04:04):
twenty five on job seeker support woulds been an average
of eighteen or more years on a benefit over a lifetime.
This is a good cycle to break, but doing it
this way is also at odds with how we otherwise
treat young people. At eighteen, parents no longer have the
rights or responsibilities that come with being a guardian. Eighteen
year olds can vote and they're no longer treated as
a young person under criminal law. Picking and choosing when

(04:28):
we treat young people as adults doesn't add much clarity
or motivation. So the government's firm handed approach sounds good,
but I am not confident it's going to make much
of a difference. In a hurry the Sunday Session, I
would like to hear from you if you have an
eighteen or nineteen year old sitting in the house who
hasn't found their way yet, will this make a difference

(04:48):
if it came into play a little sooner than a
two years time. You could text on ninety two and
ninety two up next though the dream is over for AUCKLANDFC,
and also shortly David Seymour is with us on becoming
Deputy Prime Minister in a week. It is twelve past
nine year with news talks EDB, great.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Recover it's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgoint and Wigles
for the best selection of gas used talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, that was a tough one last night, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
No victory had crushed my party.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Awk on fas remarkable record breaking first season or knock
Hannah Grand.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Finale Melbourne victory beating Auckland to sc Tundel to take
a two one aggregate win and a place in the
A League Grand Final. Apparently there were kids crying all
over the place. Sky Football analyst and former All Whites
Jacob Spoonley called the game alongside Pioneer last night and
he's with me now. Good morning Jacob, Good morning Francesca.
Oh was that a hard one to take? What did

(05:53):
you make of their performance last night?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (05:56):
It was anhrawling tie. So two leagues, the first league
in Melbourne and then the return devastation. I think for
many Aucklanders last night, thank Deska. But a lot changed
over the course of the two games, huge moments, and
then if we look at the second leg just an isolation.
Arfter Dill has changed the way that he set up

(06:18):
in Melbourne victory and that really took away. I think
the strength of the Auckland defensive effort. They proactive defensive
eff it. They like to press and he basically said
to the midfield, I'm going to overload during you have
to make a decision. It's the way you want to go,
and they then had the space that they were seeking.

(06:39):
It was the first time that I think over the
four game as they played the season that Auckland looked
uncomfortable defensively. Then they unfortunately weren't able to land a blow.
The luck that you talk about and ties like this
wasn't there. It was with Melbourne victory. Every time there
was a half chance, the ball squirmed to a white
shirt and then we'll say this quietly, Francesca, but I

(07:00):
can't say conclusively that that ball went out. So that
was a big call for the line win to make.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yes, there's been some reenactments done in our office this morning.
People are a little unhappy with the officiating. What did
you make the call?

Speaker 5 (07:17):
I think Alex King, who was the match official in
the mission in the middle, did well enough to let
the game develop. This is a semi final, This is
a match which is involving two physical things, massive capacity,
big engines, and they wanted to get into a football match.
So there were no backward steps taken and there were

(07:39):
no apologies made. Did feel at times that there was
inconsistency with what was given as a yellow card or
a foul, but that really is probably a bit of
a footnote. The big moments are what you want to
get right and in these sorts of situations and kind
of the implication and a lot of the rules is that

(08:00):
you want to allow play to develop to ensure that
if a goal is going to be scored, that you
less it hit the back of the neck and then
you come back and review and try and find something
to say that it wasn't a goal. What we saw
last night was a very quick call from the assistant
referee to say that the ball was out. On the replays,
we saw de Giermo Mai doing a wonderful job stretching

(08:24):
and straining to get his foot around the ball, and
then it was really unclear when he touched the book
on the line if it then went out in the
air and came back in to find Logan Rogerson at
the back post.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Just got in love with it, though, don't we back,
We don't even start sort of, you know, we can
critique last night's game, but then you sort of think
back to Nada's goal that hit the posts and bounced
out in Melbourne. You know, in hindsight that was really
costly as well.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Good footboyst in you Francescular, that's exactly where we wanted
to go. Yeah, at two nil and Aukland's coming back
from Victoria with a lead of two nil Madame moreno
in stoppage time. It would have been the fourth goal that
Auckland scored the ninety sixth minute. This and Francesca, but
that I think gave Victory not only a bit of

(09:12):
a chance, it gave them hope as well. You talk
about football goals in these situations, and that's a moment
where I don't think Auckland thinks that Victory can come
back into the match, but definitely gives Victory belief. They
dodged a bullet there and now do they have the freedom,
do they have the moment? Are they in bold and
to chase the game? And they were. They basically won

(09:32):
the tie in five minutes sixty to sixty five minutes.
They scored two goals. They relied on their superstars in
Machash and Bruno Fernaoli thirty nine years old, oh add
as well Francesca, and those are the only two shots
that Victory got on target over the one hundred and
eighty minutes, only two goals that they scored against Auckland

(09:54):
across four matches this season.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
All it takes. Jacob. You can't take away though, what
the team has achieved this season. Coming into this season,
I mean, I don't know. I don't know what you expected,
but I didn't expect that do what they've done.

Speaker 5 (10:09):
Universally, conclusively, you can say that they have exceeded expectations.
I don't think Auckland was aware or they didn't understand
what this team could do from a football in perspective.
We've been developing local talent for a while now, around
about the last five to ten years, we've been creating
players that overseas markets have been interested in. Francis de

(10:32):
Freese is a name that you wouldn't have heard, or
you wouldn't been able to point them out on a
lineup had you put them in front of many Aucklanders
this season. But he's played in top tier competitions in Europe.
He had to come back and play in our nationally
how amateur competition and had to wait for an opportunity.
Went down to the Phoenix last year, was told no,
came back up to Auckland this year and has grabbed

(10:54):
the chance with both hands. And that's all because we've
got representation in our largest city and our biggest sports market.
So these players, these footballers have been waiting for their
chance and then when it they took it, and they
were very hungry to repay Awkland.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
So do you think it came down to location and population?
There were over twenty nine thousand people there last night,
the average crowd attendance of over eighteen thousand. For the season,
twenty two thousand replica shirts sold. I mean, you know,
it's not bad for you for a season.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
It's wonderful And a lot of credit has to go
to Mike Higgins, Raft Turnbull and of course Nick Becker.
They put in place the architecture for the engagement. Now,
the commercials set as a byproduct of that, but the
engagement is the most important thing. And I think they've
sent a bit of a blueprint out and they have
corrected I think approach in a number of other codes,

(11:48):
which is we are the ticket, you guys come to us.
Instead they said where's our community? How can we go
meet them? So for six months they were out at
local sports clubs, they were heading to places where football
is play football, so it's even registered football. And they
made a real effort to say We're here to represent you.

(12:09):
We're not going to basically rely on our monopoly in
the region for you to come to us. If you're
on professional football, that's fantastic. Another point, Francesca, and I'm apologized,
but I'm going to put my dad's hat on here.
Demography force firmly. Football represents every single demographic. If you

(12:30):
talk to ten migrants, nine of them will say that
football is in their top two sports, it's not their first.
And regards of gender, sexuality, age, football touches every aspect
of New Zealand culture and Auckland culture. We now have
an ability to represent that in our biggest market and
our biggest sporting market, and football just needed something to

(12:54):
be proud of, to to invest into. I think we've
got that with Auckland. Equally, if you look at the
all whites, it's probably the most diverse pain for that
we've got in the country. Our traditional European migrant communities
are at writin in that Maori Pakier, Our more modern
migrant communities South African, Chinese and Indians are also in there.

(13:16):
And then you've got the pacifica community. I don't think
any other representative team has the ability to say that.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Jacob Spoonley, thank you so much for your.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Time this morning the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
So this time next week we will have a new
Deputy prime Minister. As part of the Coalition agreement, it
was decided the role would be shared with Winston Peters
covering the first half of the term and David Seymour
taking the second. So what can we expect from David
Seymore as Deputy Prime Minister? Does it actually mean anything?
And how does he rate the Coalition government's first eighteen months.
David Seymour is in the studio with me. Good morning,

(13:48):
good morning, Thank you very much for popping in. Yeah,
I appreciate that. So next time we talk you will
be Deputy Prime Minister. And I think I've got so
probably two parts to this question here. What does that
role mean to you?

Speaker 6 (14:01):
In a way, it is highly symbolic. It doesn't actually
change my job day today means that I'll spend a
bit more time covering for Christoph he's out of Wellington
or out of the country. However, for the most part,
my job remains the same. A Minister for Regulation. We're
trying to deal to red tape and a few jobs
and health and education and so on beside that. But

(14:25):
in another sense, I think it does mean a lot
because X represents a group of people who, for various reasons,
have been pretty beaten down. You know, you think about
the period of the last six years, if you were
a small business owner or a farmer, if you're landlord,
if you're a licensed firearm owner. As someone who maybe
had a slightly different view about the government's response to COVID,

(14:48):
you had a pretty rough time. And I think in
a way, to see that your party can be at
the center of government and hold a position like that,
I think will mean something for a lot of people
who felt they'd been a bit marginalized in New Zealand society.
What about for you personally, Oh, I'm proud of the achievement.
I think of anything, it shows we live in a
great country. You know, if you be yourself and pack yourself,

(15:11):
you might be surprised how much support you get. And
I think that's an important thing for all of us.

Speaker 7 (15:17):
You know.

Speaker 6 (15:17):
I don't claim to be, you know, the greatest hard
work of it. I work pretty hard and I don't
claim to be the most virtuous person, but I think
I have my heart in the right place. And I
know I'm a bit quirky. That's called self awareness, but
it shows if you're a bit quirky, you work hard
and you've got a good heart, you can succeed in
this country. And I think that's great.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
You mentioned that sort of franktally. Day to day it
doesn't change your job, but when the Prime Minister does
leave the country doesn't have an impact.

Speaker 6 (15:44):
Well, it means I'm the acting Prime Minister. Some people
are terrified of what this will mean, and I just
want to give you some reassurance. It's actually already happened
a few times when Chris and Winston have been away.
I've been acting PM, and it can have a bit
of an effect. I mean you might remember there was
that crowd strike problem where some software had blown up,

(16:09):
some security software ironically, and it looked like there could
be major computer failures of systems through the financial sector
and calling an ambulance or dispatched systems for police. And
so I heard about this on the radio is breaking
news that it was happening somewhere else in the world,
and I thought, oh, yes, someone ought to do something

(16:30):
about that. In check New Zealand's all right, and then
I thought, oh, hang on, yeah, yeah, I'm acting PM today,
So I called the officer. Guys, you hearing this, So
I think we better find out what's going on.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
If we're acting prime minister. What would be the worst
thing that could happen? Do you have a little nightmare
scenario in.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
You well, I mean, you know the really terrible things
that have happened in New Zealand. I mean, you know, earthquakes, shootings, floods.
I mean I'd rather none, although although the other time
I've probably done it half a dozen times. But another
time I was doing it and the Chinese government decided
to send a flotilla of warships pasities.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
So maybe you're jinxing things a bit. Has Winston done
a good job?

Speaker 6 (17:14):
I think he's done a very good job in the
thing that he loves doing and actually the thing will
continue to do, which is being Foreign Minister. You know,
Winston has some really unique talents. He is a person
who I think is very charismatic, and if you've got
to pick a citizen to go and sort of be
representative as Foreign Minister, then I think he's done a
good job at that. And the good news is, you know,

(17:36):
just as the DPM thing doesn't make that big a
practical difference here, he can keep doing it.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Will we notice any difference? And with you in this role,
you know, as you say, you're quirky, you're quite outspoken.
Will you be at all restrained by the title in
some ways?

Speaker 6 (17:53):
I mean, you have a job speaking on behalf of
the government, but I already have that to some extent.
I mean, if I'm talking as the Leader of Acts,
then I'll quite openly say, look, this government's getting a
lot of stuff right, but you know there's stuff that
Act would do differently, and we don't hide that. I
think it's healthy to have differences that you can discuss

(18:13):
in a mature way. On the other hand, if I'm
speaking as the Minister of X, Y or z on
behalf of the government, then I absolutely support the government
position and I'll certainly be aiming to show people I
can do a very good job as DPM too.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Because there have been times when you have publicly disagreed
with your coalition partners, including the Prime Minister, or corrected
one of them and things. How does that go down?

Speaker 6 (18:37):
Well, I just make the point that every time I've
had any kind of public disagreement. It has been in
response to comments made about me. So I I know
some people will say that sounds like the adult equivalent
of he started it. Yeah, but that's actually true in

(18:59):
each case, and in reality, we have a changing system
of government. If you look at you Europe, there's twenty
thirty odd democracies there and for the most part they
have sometimes three four parties working together in one government.
We traditionally haven't had that in New Zealand, but with
MMP we seem to be moving towards it.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
We're around halfway through this parliamentary term and it has
been a reasonably fast moving government. Have you achieved what
you set out to achieve? Your happy with where you're at?

Speaker 7 (19:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (19:31):
I think it's. First of all, it's a work in progress,
but we can point to very good progress. Let me
point to Chris Hipkins quote. He said the government change
because of the three seas, the cost of living, the crime,
and the co government. And in each case I think
the government can point to substantial action and improvement. But

(19:52):
also our critics can rightly say that we are not
ready to do victory laps either. The fourth issue that
has emerged is health, but if you go through them.
You know, we inherited inflation at five and a half
percent five point six. I think it's now two and
a half. Interest rates peaked at five and a quarter
at the Reserve Bank, now down to three and a

(20:14):
half and looking likely to keep falling. So you know,
we've I think in terms of the cost of living
and getting the economy moving. Still a lot of pain
up there, but it's really moved in the right direction.
The crime we've abandoned being kind to criminals and waiting
for them to be kind back. Now we're saying, look
consequences first. Then we can rehabilit or for rehabilitation, but

(20:35):
lock them up first. And I'm proud that one of
Ak's things was we've got to increased prison capacity and
potentially a population of people offen We just put half
a billion into more prison capacity, so we're proud of that.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
How do you approach the second half of this term?
Is it about pushing ex agender or tightening the coalition
for re election?

Speaker 6 (20:55):
It's both of those things. You know, my goal will
be to keep the government because I just saw Chloe
Swarbrick's budget speech and Chloe someone came in three years
before her. I've got a lot of time for Chloe
at a personal level, but I think the economics that
she's pushing is increasingly unhinged and has nothing to do

(21:17):
with the environment. It's the other big thing about the
Greens Party these days. We've got to keep them out.
The second thing is while the government I think has
done pretty well on the Three Seas and will continue
to do well, there are bigger challenges that New Zealand faces,
longer term challenges, and I think one of the big
debates of the next five years is we can either

(21:41):
tax more to fill in a deficit, we can spend
less or keep borrowing. And that keep borrowing is not
really an option, it's a delaying tactic. So eventually we're
going to have to tax more or spend less. Now
people may not realize that, it's oh, you have a
capital gains tax. New Zealanders already pay more tax than

(22:02):
anyone else on the Pacific rim. You know, you go
to Japan, Mexico, Singapore, wherever Australia is the obvious comparator,
we already pay more tax. We are going to have
to have a smaller, more efficient government in my view,
because if you put more tax, more people will leave
and we can't afford that.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
David, is there is there a little handover on Saturday
the thirty first? Is there sort of a handshake between
you and Winston? Does anything official happen?

Speaker 6 (22:28):
We'll take Winston's actually off. I'm not sure exactly where
he is now. He was going from Australia to Sri
Lanka last night, I think, and then he's going to India,
so I assume. I assume he hasn't scheduled that because
of this.

Speaker 8 (22:41):
But no, he won't be.

Speaker 6 (22:43):
There, but I am doing a short ceremony with the
Governor General. I hope she's not a hope it's not
going to involve swords or anything, but it might be
something like that.

Speaker 9 (22:52):
Never know.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
David Symol, thank you very much for your time this
morning and coming in. Really appreciate it. It is twenty
seven to ten.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on you as
talks that'd.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Be and joining me now is New Zealand Harold Deputy
Political Editor Adam Pierce. Good morning, Adam, good morning. David
Seymoll becomes Deputy Prime Minister in a week. How will
Luxembye feeling ahead of the switch. Do you think, Oh,
I'm sure he'll be.

Speaker 10 (23:23):
He'll be excited and keen to get David Seymour inducted. Oh,
I mean whether it makes much of a difference in
practical terms, I'm not too sure. I mean, you see,
listening to David Seymour and you show them him acknowledging
it as largely symbolic is probably about about right a
couple of interesting points. So him acknowledging that it will

(23:43):
restrain him in some ways I think is something that's
that's worth keeping an eye on. You know, we've seen
well Winston Peters and David Seamore, both of them aren't
afraid to air their grievances or make their disagreements known.
So how how that will restrain David Seymour, particularly in
the lead up to the election, will be interesting. You

(24:04):
know that often you know, you hear it from from
the Prime Minister, and you'll hear it from from David
as well. That you know, and these modern m MP arrangements,
it's natural for parties to disagree, particularly governing parties, But
I'm not sure whether the publica is up with the
play on that. You know whether they're used to seeing
members of the same government disagreeing with each other.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
So how that how that plays.

Speaker 10 (24:29):
When we get close to the election will be will
be interesting to see and.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Give us a quick rundown of the reaction to the
budget this week.

Speaker 10 (24:37):
Yeah, it's been it's been pretty mixed and it'll be
It'll be good to see how things go down over
the next week or so. You know that the government,
the ministers will be out and about doing their post
budget road show across the country, trying to get a
feel for how things are going. You look at the
investment boost policy, largely positive reception there, you know, wanting

(24:58):
to get some productivity going. The key we saver changes
pretty mixed, you know, looking at I think people broadly
are in favor of of more saving. How they've gone
about it by cutting the government government contribution in the
context of the pay equity cuts, I think will be
an ongoing issue, another one that the unions and the

(25:20):
opposition parties will look to keep alive from now until
the election. What I found quite interesting is the focus
on savings and finance. Mister Nicolawllis's real focus on that
we need to save better, key weies need to save
better for our retirement has pushed this issue of the
retirement age back back into the mainstream again. Obviously it's

(25:43):
always bubbling away and you have noticed it as well.
No doubt you would have talked about it. But you
know there is an obvious point of contention in the
current government governing parties there. New Zealand first obviously very
keen to keep it at sixty five, whereas the others
are looking to push it in a phased way. So
that interesting to see that conversation started again and will

(26:04):
likely given the priority on saving that heard from the
fin Finance minister about will factor in Tanisi's election.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Absolutely, Thank you so much, Adam. That was Adam Pears.
How you might have heard of a new film in
cinemas called The Salt Path. It's based on the memoir
written by Ray nor Win. It's an amazing story of
overcoming adversity. Raynal Win is with me after ten It
is twenty one to.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Ten for a Sunday session full show podcast on iHeartRadio
powered by Newstalks FB.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Thank you very much for your text this morning. Film
text to say why didn't Jacob acknowledge the Phoenix who
carried and grew New Zealand football for twenty years. That
most of you FC went through the Phoenix system and
they were ravaged by the mighty Auckland dollar. The Phoenix
fan there, And thank you very much for your text
about getting our kids out to work at eighteen or nineteen.
Some healthy humans at eighteen need to kick up the
bum to get to get out and get a job.

(26:53):
Having no money is a great incentive. Another text said
that the biggest problem with employing young kids is a
minimum pay rate, especially under present circumstances, and another one
reads what I don't want to fund loafers? Considering that
eighteen is the eight the age of legal responsibility for
everything except a public transport license, how can one adult
be made financially liable for supporting another Thank you for

(27:13):
your kind realistic analysis. Thank you on for your text
right leading UK experts the warning of the health risks
facing athletes training for the Enhanced Games. So this week
it was announced the first Enhanced Games will take place
as a four day event in Las Vegas and them
next May. The event endorses the use of performance enhancing drugs,

(27:34):
with organizers aiming to unlock the new level of superhuman performance.
So are these games sacrificing human health for the sake
of entertainment? Doctor Martin Chandler and Professor M. Baudley and
leading experts in this area. They've just released new research
and they join me from the UK.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Good morning, Good mine.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
So in the organizers of this event, so that they're
ensuring that ensuring athletes safety and IT measures will be
in place to make sure these substances can be safely
taken under medical supervision in your experience, is that possible now?

Speaker 11 (28:07):
I think one of the things that we took exception
to in the paper that we wrote is that there
isn't the evidence base to put safety measures in place
so you can monitor certain things. But most of the
evidence that's been generated around the US the substances at
therapeutic doses, not this sort of super physiological doses that

(28:29):
they'll be using in other proposing to use in the games.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
So we've been told in it's not necessarily the substance,
it's the way you use it or misuse it that
makes it dangerous. How do you respond to a statement
like that.

Speaker 11 (28:43):
Well, I think they're trying to sort of make it
sound as though there is a way that you can
do this safely, and I think that's one of the
more dangerous messages. But actually, when you hear some of
the accounts from the people involved in the combination substances
that they're using, some of them are experimental substances once
that we don't have any evidence based for. So it

(29:05):
seems like the safety there's so called safety expect is
saying one thing, but it's not corresponding to what the
athletes are actually saying they're doing in terms of the
regime of substances.

Speaker 7 (29:16):
They're turkey.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
So, Martin, you recently released a paper outlining the health risks,
what are the main health concerns and the risk is
associated with these drugs, So we focused on three.

Speaker 12 (29:29):
There's a whole range of potential side effects from the drugs,
and you know, there's a wide range of different drugs here,
anabolic steroids, peptide hormones, whole bunch of things, So there's
a whole bunch of stuff that could be going on.
But we focused on three cardiovascular function, reproductive function, and
cognitive function because there is growing evidence to show that

(29:50):
these in these three areas. Anabolic steroids in particular can
have quite heavy adverse impacts, so for instance, enlargements of
the heart, stiffening of the heart wall, and then a
reduction of in the heart's performance, essentially.

Speaker 7 (30:10):
Reproductive function.

Speaker 12 (30:12):
We're seeing people who have ceased using anabolic steroids and
they've started trying to restart their natural testosterone production, which
stops when you're injecting it, and a year after cessation
of use, they're still trying to get themselves going again.
And in some cases, even where they have restored natural

(30:33):
testosterone production, all their hormone levels are back to normal
or their biomarkets appear to be back to normal, they
still lack libido, they still lack fertility. There are structural changes,
for instance, the testicles that we don't really understand why
it's happening like that, it's a bit of a lottery,
and very very recent evidence around changes in brain structure,

(31:01):
and there is evidence previously that anabolic steroiduse, particular long
term use, can impact things like working memory and visiospatial
memory and processing, so people just become it becomes harder
to actually problem solve.

Speaker 7 (31:17):
But now we're starting to see.

Speaker 12 (31:19):
That there is an acceleration in brain aging essentially from
long term heavy antabitic celeroduce. But this is very, very
new research, so there's a lot we don't understand.

Speaker 7 (31:30):
About it yet.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
These aren't minor side effigs. This isn't just a little
bit of nausea or something. Do people understand you know
that people well informed? Do you think these athletes before
they vuture into this sort of use of substance.

Speaker 12 (31:50):
There's a lot of bro science around it and there's
a lot of If you look at the communities that
use it kind of recreationally, they have ways of mitigating
the obvious side effects and the other stuff gets brushed off.

Speaker 7 (32:01):
But that's what human beings do, right.

Speaker 12 (32:03):
It's the same thing that happens with alcohol usething happens
with cigarettes. This is what even if we understand that
there might be serious side effects, if it's something we
want to do and the games are there, then we'll
keep doing it.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
You've got an athlete like the Australians from James Magnison
who seed you know, he's reported to us he feels
like he's eighteen again, does that concern you? And not
just for athletes, but for the average person who's going, oh,
here's the silver bullet.

Speaker 12 (32:34):
The biggest concern for me with James mack with what
James Magnuson has been saying about Oh I feel eighteen again,
is the fact that some of the things that he
said are kind of being they're not really being highlighted.
So he talked to in one interview about how he
felt like his nervous system wasn't really catching up, and
that's quite a key issue because you know, anaboltic stories

(32:54):
and things don't don't supercharge your nervous system, and your
nervous system needs to catch up to your the rest
of your body when you're training hard. He talks about
in an interview, he talks about you need to be
an elite athlete if you want to hit that kind
of performance before you take those drugs, You're not going

(33:15):
to achieve.

Speaker 7 (33:15):
It without being that level or already.

Speaker 12 (33:22):
So, yeah, selling the idea that you can just become
a superhuman athlete without putting the work in, that's a
really dangerous message and I don't think that I think
they're downplaying some of the aspects there.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Mattin, does it consume you that there are scientists and
doctors involved in this competition? Do you think there's an
ethics issue here.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
Oh, there's absolutely an ethics issue here. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (33:47):
Part of the reason why we don't have a lot
of data around this, a lot of human data around this,
is because some of the studies that you really need
to say this substance causes this at this dose for
this period of time are quite unethical because we know
that they could cause severe first effects in some people

(34:07):
and no effects in other people. So, but one of
their there's an article in the Economists, I think, where
somebody from the Enhanced Games from their medical team has said,
you know, we're we're looking we'll be looking for ethical
approval down the line for our five year follow up.

(34:29):
You don't look for ethical approval when you've already started
giving people drugs. You look for ethical approval before you
start doing all that stuff. So there's there's some serious
issues here. I would hope that, as you know, I mean,
there's that's as an impressive roster of scientists. I would
hope that they would apply scientific rigor and that I
would hope that they would say, right, actually, you know what,
we've got to draw the line here, and that the

(34:51):
Enhanced Games would listen to that.

Speaker 7 (34:53):
The cynic in me isn't convinced.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Doctor Martin Chandler enter professor in body, thank you so
much for your time this morning. It is ten to ten.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Putting the tough questions to the newspakers Mike Hosking.

Speaker 13 (35:07):
Breakfast, my Na's minister, Nicola Willis is with us nineteen
year olds who are unemployed.

Speaker 7 (35:11):
You're going to mean to test the parents.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
I have talked to parents who say it's pretty tough.

Speaker 13 (35:15):
But Nichola, don't play this game with me. It depends
where are you going to means test the mat?

Speaker 7 (35:20):
Is it one eighty.

Speaker 13 (35:20):
Plus or is it a lot lower? And a lot
of parents are going to go I can't afford to
do that.

Speaker 10 (35:24):
We only really want it to be an exceptional circumstances
because our base expectation.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Is if you can't get a job, you should be
in training. You're talking much how.

Speaker 13 (35:33):
Much, Nicola? How much does a parent have to earn
before you ping them? Should it be one eighty plus?

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Well, I actually think it should be less than that.
Kebnet will obviously have to deliberate.

Speaker 13 (35:41):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking Breakfast with
Bayley's Real Estate News Talk, said.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
B Sunday with style the Sunday session with Francesca Runkin
and Wiggles for the best selection of Greg Reeds.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
He's talk SEDB, So.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Thank you so much for your text this morning. A
lot of texts coming through on eighteen and nineteen year
old whether they should be eligible to get a benefit
children attending One text reads children attending tertiary studies are
subject to means testing to get a student allowance, so
they don't qualify. If they don't qualify, they are parents
supported or they get a student loan. Same should apply

(36:22):
for eighteen nineteen year olds not working or enrolling for
the education mean test the parents. Meanwhile, you know, you
know you've got a loan system for those that got lost. Basically,
what your couple of your pointing out is that we
already have a system for the universities where we mean
test parents as to where the kids can get allowances
and things, and they are going to look at that,

(36:43):
but they're going to make sure that you can actually
move that criteria over. What happened with the tertiary a
little while ago was it was it worked out to
be quite unfair because if your parents had separated, maybe
one parent who was earning all the money said actually,
I'm not supporting. I don't providing any money, and the
kid had no choice and so but then on paper
when they're means tested, they said, no, no, that's tough.

(37:06):
So there were a lot of issues with that. So
I think that's what they're doing. I think they're going
to make sure really carefully that the people who need
the support are still going to be able to get
the support, and they're not going to get that wrong.
Another one reads, tough love is required for those late
teens who have no incentive to work. This policy is
just what they need to be more proactive in finishing
a job. The tax payer should not be obligated to

(37:28):
support this chosen lifestyle.

Speaker 14 (37:30):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
It is six to ten the Sunday Session Full Show
podcast on my Heart Radio powered by News Talks.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Be the Lovely. Rainer Winn, author of The Salt Path,
is with me next to talk about how her life
fell apart in the space the week and how a
six hundred and thirty mile walk helped her overcome this adversity.
It is an incredible tale and Raynald turned it into
her best selling memoir. Now it's a film the Salt Path.
So raynal Winn is with me next Hey Takes. The

(38:01):
song is called first Time, and he has just had
what has been described as major international moment because this
song was performed by one of the fan favorite contestants,
Jamal Roberts on American Idol this week and he went
on to win and tekes his songwriting and his beautiful,

(38:21):
soulful voice. It has now been introduced to millions and
millions of new viewers on a global stage. So very exciting,
A very nice compliment for Ticks, who's also performing actually
at the Aukantown Hall on June fifth. He's just doing
a one night performance sold out. Of course, I won't
let you enjoy this back shortly.

Speaker 9 (38:44):
Now it's first.

Speaker 10 (38:45):
To be.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
You got a game club.

Speaker 15 (38:52):
Thank you.

Speaker 9 (38:54):
First Time.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads us.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Good morning, Good to have you with us. At is
seven past ten. Right back in twenty thirteen, Welsh couple
raynal Wyn and her husband Moth experienced a week like
no other, and the space of seven days, they lost
their home, the farm where they'd lived for twenty years
and raised their children. Then Moth was diagnosed with a
rare terminal degenerative brain disease and given two years to live.

(39:34):
Homeless and facing an uncertain future. Together, Raynor and Moth
left on a six hundred and thirty mile trek along
the Southwest Coast Path and made the trail their home.
Their incredible story became a best selling memoir and has
now been adapted for film. It's called The Salt Path.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Are you walking the path?

Speaker 7 (39:52):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
All, that's a long, longike.

Speaker 15 (39:56):
Yeah, retire, I'll mister lailis.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Homeless.

Speaker 9 (40:01):
Actually, I love stuff. I think you really o live?

Speaker 15 (40:08):
God won't I should just follow a line around the coast.

Speaker 9 (40:13):
We just walk you.

Speaker 13 (40:15):
Ready, I can't move my arms, of my legs, but
oft from that could go.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
And Raynald went as with me. Now, so lovely to
have you with us. Good morning, good morning, great to
be with you.

Speaker 16 (40:25):
Francesca.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Firstly, what was it like watching Jillian Anderson play yourself?

Speaker 17 (40:31):
Well, it's quite surreal, isn't it. Jillian Anderson on the
screen pretending to be you. It's not an average everyday thing,
is it.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I thought she did an absolutely fantastic job. I thought
her performance was fantastic. Did she capture the experience?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Well?

Speaker 16 (40:46):
I think she did.

Speaker 17 (40:47):
I was really concerned when they told me it was
going to be Jillian Andsen, because I thought, well, she's
just so perfect, so glamorous, How on earth is she
going to portray me in that raw state? But as
soon as I saw it on screen, I thought, Yes,
she's got it. She's got that sense of being lost,
not in the end moment, but lost in life. And

(41:09):
I think she captured that so well in those moments
between dialogue, those moments when she's just in the landscape.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Those wonderful nuances. Yes, I agree with you. I was
a bit worried about that as well. But I thought
both her and Jason Isaacs, who plays your husband Moth,
neither of them came to this film with any vanity
about the roles. Did they?

Speaker 16 (41:29):
No, they didn't.

Speaker 17 (41:30):
They didn't, And I think I think Jillian abandoned every
ounce of vanity and just threw herself into the role completely.
And Jason spent so much time talking to Math and
really exploring how that path was for him with that condition.

Speaker 16 (41:51):
He really brought something of Moth to the screen.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Did you spend much time with Julian. Did she want
to know anything from you?

Speaker 16 (41:57):
Well, yes, we had. We had a really good day together.

Speaker 17 (42:00):
We had a whole cornish experience of putting a tent
up and eating ice screams and really exploring the emotions
between behind some scenes in the books so transferred into
the film.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Were you excited that you'd be selling meanwhile would be
turned into a film. We're a little bit anxious because
it is reliving a pretty vulnerable time in your life.

Speaker 16 (42:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (42:26):
I think initially I just didn't really overthink what was
going to happen if the film was made, because apparently
many books get optioned, but they rarely make it to film,
and so I didn't expect the film to be made
to be honest. So when I realized that it was
actually happening, I think my main concern was how they

(42:49):
could capture a story that is basically about two people
under path, how they could capture that in a way
that would engage in audience. But also that book is
however many pages it is, but that represents months and
months of our lives distilled down into those pages of
the book, and that was going to have to be

(43:11):
condensed way down to fit the to fit the timescale
of a film.

Speaker 16 (43:16):
I didn't know how they were.

Speaker 17 (43:17):
Going to do that because there's so much path, there's
so much walking, gig up book, How on earthquaky condensed
that down? But they have, and it's meant that at
some moments in a film are really intense because it's
a week's life in a glance.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
It's remarkable, wasn't it. I mean, did you watch it
as a family. Have you watched it as a family
the film?

Speaker 17 (43:43):
Yes, we have, Yeah, yeah, and obviously as you would expect,
you know.

Speaker 16 (43:48):
We're all a bit of emotional mess when we came out.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Wonderful. I mean, it is an extraordinary story, right or
your lives were turned upside down and just like one
week there was the loss of your home and the
bankruptcy and then the diagnose us. Can you tell us
a little bit about that situation you found yourselves in.

Speaker 17 (44:11):
Well, we were living in a place that fact we'd
found in our thirties.

Speaker 16 (44:15):
When we first moved in. It had been ruined in
the hills.

Speaker 17 (44:19):
Where the walls were crumbling and the roof was falling in,
but it was like our dream home.

Speaker 16 (44:26):
We'd spent twenty years.

Speaker 17 (44:28):
Of our lives, restoring it, converting the barn so visitors
could stay.

Speaker 16 (44:34):
Our children grew up then and went to university.

Speaker 17 (44:37):
And it was our little idyll in the hills really.
But we'd had this sort of background dispute with a
lifetime friend that ended in a court case that's always
been served with in eviction notice.

Speaker 16 (44:49):
From that house.

Speaker 17 (44:51):
And then we were given a week to pack up
twenty years and leave. And it was in that week
that Moth received the diagnosis, and it was as a
the whole of life had just crumbled. It had crumbled
in that tiny short space of time, and what was

(45:13):
left was just avoid and we didn't know how to
go into it or what to do when we got there.
And that's where the book starts, that's where the film starts.
At that moment when we're we're under the stairs, the
baylifts are knocking at the door, we're about to leave,

(45:34):
and we see a book in the packing case about
somebody walking Southwest Coast Path. And it really was, you know,
that's spontaneous, a decision to just pick up a rocksuck.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
And go, So Rayel, was it did you realistically think, yes,
we can do this, this is possible. And of course
by the sage Moth was you know, feeling the effects
of his diagnosis, or actually, did it just come down
to we don't have a choice, so let's just start.

Speaker 16 (46:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (46:05):
Really, when we thought about walking, it was simply something
that would take us into the next day, a reason
to get up and go forwards.

Speaker 16 (46:15):
And to be honest, we were just starting out thinking
it was a line on the map and we would
follow it because it will give us a sense of purpose.
We had no real expectation of walking it or because
at the start Moth could barely put his coat on
without help, was struggling with a rucksack. He would get
into the tent at night and not be able to

(46:36):
get out in the morning. The scene in a film
where Gillian pulls Jason out of.

Speaker 17 (46:42):
The tent by the sleeping bag, and that happened quite
a loss in the early days that you know, the
only way we're out was if I pulled him out, basically,
So we really were just existing in those early days,
existing and finding a way to just go into the
next day.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
And you didn't have much money at all, you know,
you were surviving. I think it was forty pounds a
week there's a lovely scene where you pretty much split
Was it a winegum for breakfast?

Speaker 17 (47:11):
I think, yeah, there is a moment where we had
no money left and we were in this really remote
little head guned we got no food left, and then
a moth found a winegum in his pocket and it
was it was like hairy with pocket full of picking
their hairs off and splitting it in half, and that

(47:33):
was breakfast. It was a really strange moment though, because
the tent was surrounded by rabbits, because we were camped
on a rabbit warrant and they were everywhere.

Speaker 16 (47:47):
And I grew up on a farm, you know, the
obvious thing to do with a rabbit is make a stew.

Speaker 17 (47:52):
But you know what was the point. We didn't have
enough gas to cook it, so you know, we just
shared the winegum instead.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
It is a beautiful walk, but it's a lot tougher
than I thought it would be, you know, this treacherous
you know, steers up and down and things.

Speaker 16 (48:09):
Yeah, it's a really difficult path.

Speaker 17 (48:11):
It says in the its title Coast Path, the Southwest
West Coast Path. So in my head, have we not
read a guidebook? I think I was sort of thinking
there'd be a lot of time just walking on the beach.

Speaker 16 (48:25):
But it's six hundred and thirty miles that has a.

Speaker 17 (48:28):
Cent that's equivalent to climbing Everes nearly four times, so
that's a lot of up and down. Yeah, we didn't
take that into consideration, I don't think at the beginning.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
So how long did it take to settle into the walk?
Was there a moment when you realized that actually this
was an incredible experience and one that was changing you,
I suppose, yeah.

Speaker 17 (48:54):
I mean it was weeks really into it, because at
the beginning we were just carrying all that anxiety and
bitterness and fear of what had happened and what might come,
and that sort of was our focus at the beginning.
But slowly the beauty of that landscape, the sense of

(49:15):
that endless horizon always to one side, it sort of
seemed to smooth those emotions down until I think in
the book I mentioned them feeling more like sea worm
pebbles in our pockets rather than jagged stones. But there
was a moment, probably two hundred miles into the walk,
when we camped on the beach, and it was one

(49:36):
of those perfect moments when the sea was like syrup
still and there were dolphins. Came into the bay and
we camped well above the high tig line. But then
at three in the morning, we weren't a booth the
high tiger line because the tide was right up to
the tent and we had to jump out of the tent,
snatch the whole thing, whole fully erected, carried it above

(49:56):
our heads and run up the beach. As we dropped
it at the foot of the cliffs, I can remember thinking,
but you've just carried a tent above your head and
run up a beach when you couldn't put your coat
on without help. And that was such a remarkable moment
to realize that from being told there was nothing that
could be done, suddenly those symptoms have gone into They've

(50:21):
been suppressed somehow.

Speaker 16 (50:23):
We didn't know how, we didn't know why.

Speaker 17 (50:26):
But that scene, I was worried how it would be
captured in the film because it was so important to me.
So when we sat down and watched the film and
it's the first scene you see is a couple fighting
with the tent, it was like, oh, yeah, you've caught it.

Speaker 16 (50:42):
That's that's it. That moment of wild weather and panic and.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Yeah, right, Rain, or can I ask it's been twelve
years since Moth's diagnosis, how are things going well?

Speaker 16 (50:55):
He's had his ups and downs over those years.

Speaker 17 (50:58):
You know, he's had really down points when we've gone
out and tried to walk again, and moments when we
went to Scotland and tried to walk and ended up
walking a thousand miles.

Speaker 16 (51:08):
Back to cool.

Speaker 17 (51:11):
But last year he had a really difficult year and
we wondered if I'd be a way back really from that.
But now, in true Moth style, he's doing his physio
every day, he's walking a few miles every day, and slowly, slowly,
he's getting back to where he would prefer to be.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
I'm so pleased to hear that. You know, I was
thinking about this story, and you know, since the pandemic,
a lot of people have had their lives turned upside down,
a lot of people have lost jobs and businesses, and
I wonder whether you know, we need stories, hopeful stories,
beautiful stories like this just to remind us that we
can deal with adversity. Has a story really resonated with

(51:56):
a lot of people?

Speaker 16 (51:57):
It absolutely has.

Speaker 17 (51:58):
I mean I didn't consider that at all when the
book was first published. But now I feel as if
I put my story out and it's as if thousands
have come back, and it's been such a privilege to
share those stories of other people's lives. How I've come
to realize, actually, you know, there aren't many of us
that don't go through a moment when we hit that

(52:21):
crisis point in life emotionally, financially, health wise, whatever brings
that moment, we all go through it in some way
or another. And I think it's almost become like it's
not my story anymore.

Speaker 16 (52:34):
It's our story.

Speaker 17 (52:36):
It's the story of how any offers stand up again
when life's knocked us down. And you know, it's become
a shared experience now really rather than just my story.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
And it has it's changed your life, Hesnand I mean,
you've got three beer selling box under your belt now,
and I believe a fourth one is on the way.
Can you tell us much about that?

Speaker 9 (52:55):
Uh?

Speaker 17 (52:56):
Yes, I have literally twenty minutes before before I spoke
to you, literally just this morning sent it to the publisher.
So it's like fingers crossed that I say it's okay,
But it's out in October and I can't say too
much because probably just haven't announced it yet, but there

(53:18):
will be an another long walk, but from a slightly
different viewpoint.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Oh, Rainald, thank you so much for your time today.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 16 (53:27):
That's great, Thank you for good to meet you.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
That was Raynald when the film based on who Memeoile
the Salt Path is in cinemas now and I forget
that after eleven singer songwriter Georgia Lines is with us
in the studio for a chat in a song. It
is twenty one past tenure with news Talks.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
It'd be a bit simple.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
It's Sunday, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudger and Wiggles
for the best selection of great Relis news talks.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
It'd be.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Ni a little bit of Anna Coddington there to kick
off our entertainment section. And it is performing at the
Alto Music Awards this Thursday. Is a finalist in Paul categories.

(54:18):
So why we're going to talk about that in just
a moment. But first up Steve neil Iter, Reflix stock
Code Ze.

Speaker 18 (54:24):
Good morning, good morning, and it's May twenty five, but
it's never too late to say happy New Zealand Music.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Happy New Zealand Music Month. We've had a lot of
New Zealand music on the show this month and it's
been wonderful to get live performances from people too. Got
Georgia lines coming up after eleven, But hey, the Country
Music Honors are taking place this week.

Speaker 18 (54:39):
Yes, and this is ahead of the Altro Music Awards
next week. But the country Music's got in first was
a prestigious ceremony held in Gore on Friday presenting the
twenty twenty five OPRA Best Country Music Song Award, which
is won by a Holly Arrowsmith for their song Blue Dreams.
Also honored was the Also awarded was the MLT song

(55:03):
Writing Award and that was given to the song war
Time performed by Nicola Mitchell. And a new award dedicated
to life I guess a lifetime achievement type award really
contribution to country music and Altiera. The inaugural recipient of
this was the awesome Tammy Neilson, very deserving. The notes

(55:26):
on this were that she's recognized for her outstanding impact
and unwavering dedication to the country music scene in Altillo
in New Zealand, with particular focus on the opportunities Tammy
has selflessly created for the emerging artists around her. So
that's a that's a really nice community focused award, but
recognizing someone with great output also.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
And then of course, as I mentioned on Thursday, we've
got the Music Awards.

Speaker 18 (55:48):
Yeah, and it's a bit of an anniversary of sorts
this year. It's not an anniversary of sorts. It is
an anniversary sixty years of music awards here in Altiero.
It started with the Lox Scene Golden Disc Award in
nineteen sixty five, won by Ray Columbus and the Invaders
for Until We Kissed. Fast forward to twenty twenty five

(56:08):
and we have a pack of nominees led by Stan
Walker and Chai, with Kaylee bell Aradna, Georgia Lines and
recent Tait Music Prize winner Mokotron, all scoring four nominations.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Somebody pointed out to me that in some of the
big awards they're pretty much all independent artists, like there
might I think there might be one sort of international label.

Speaker 18 (56:34):
Artists that it does reflect the sort of changing tenor
of the industry. I think that particularly for a New
Zealand based artist, it makes a lot of sense. Once
you achieve a certain level of popularity to be sort
of managing the finances of that yourself. The majors have
been really supportive. I mean that the trailblazers in the

(56:54):
New Zealand music industry, many of whom were artists on
major labels. But I think there's a there's an adeptness
and responsiveness that kind of comes with being able to
drive your own project and perhaps that does result in
the type of music that you know gets recognized or
at least nominated in the season.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Okay, so we've got New Zealand Music T Shirt Day.

Speaker 7 (57:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (57:18):
So the awards is on Thursday, which I should not
You can lives during that from six pm onnth Thursday,
and the brand and a wonderful coincidence. Although the New
Zealand music industry might not have the strictest dress code,
the day after the Music Awards is New Zealand Music
T Shirt Day, so you can wear a New Zealand
Music T shirt to the office. And the idea behind
this you'll see listeners because radio is famously a visual medium.

(57:38):
That I'm wearing one of my favorite Uzela music T
shirts today. It's got a big dagger held by a
big red hand with a whole bunch of blood pouring
at the bottom that says earth tongue. Fantastic New Zealand
two piece with an album and tour on the way.
But I will put this on the wash, I think,
and maybe wear something else. This Friday, New Zealand Music
t Shirt Day is in honor of raising awareness and

(57:58):
financial support for the charity Music Helps, which has been
established to assist people that work in music, whether the
roadies or musicians, to deal with some of the medical
and mental difficulties that they may encounter through their lives.
People that have made a huge contribution to our wellbeing
as New Zealanders who sometimes find themselves doing it tough.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
And they also support a huge amount of other projects
around the country that are helping, you know, using music
to help people through.

Speaker 7 (58:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (58:26):
Absolutely, So you can check out into the Music t
Shirt Day. You can like a good kind of forty
hour famine type scenario. You can build a team online
and compete with others to see who can raise the most.
And to be honest, it's just a nice excuse to
put on some merch and put some photos online.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I'll have to go back through my daughter's room and
find all my t shirts, so I'll definitely be putting
something on.

Speaker 18 (58:48):
It's a twentie cycle, you know, like everything, if it's
twenty years old, you're remarkably on trend.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Only problem is that none of them fit Steve. But
it's a nice bool, I know the feeling. It's a
very nice thought. Actually, we spoke to Joel Little on
the show last week as well about music helps and
he was really interesting. So if you want to go
and have a listen to that interview, you just had
to newstalkstb dot co dot nz forward slash Sunday and
you'll get that there. Thank you so much. Steveh will
catch you next week. And also just a quick congratulations

(59:15):
to the three women who've been nominated for the New
Zealand's top comedy prize. It is the Fred Award. It
was founded in two thousand and six US award and
it's awarded to the best show by New Zealand comedian
at the Comedy Festival. So the winner is going to
be announced tonight tonight. Abbie Hawles, Angela Dravard and Melanie

(59:37):
Bracewell are the three finalists. Very funny women so congratulations.
I know pretty good, isn't it. It is ten thirty
new stalks at B.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Every year, Wickles invites readers to vote for their three
favorite books to help compile the new annual Wickles Top
one hundred. The list is assembled from all the votes received,
literally thousand of them, which arranged in order of reader popularity,
from numbers one three to one hundred. Voting for the
twenty twenty five whit Calls Top one hundred is open
now and you can have your say by going online

(01:00:17):
to Wickles dot co dot nz or by visiting any
one of the whick cal stores around the country. The
results will be collated with the new list going live
at the end of July. Wickles would love to hear
from you. The great thing about this list is that
a thousands of other readers have loved a book. Chances
are you will too, so have your say and tell
them about the books that you want everyone to know about.

(01:00:38):
With books, games, puzzles, gorgeous stationary toys and the Wickles
Top one hundred, there really is something for everyone at Wickles.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
And joining me now with her science study of the
week is doctor Michelle Dickinson. Good morning. I love the
study because I don't know if I have actually noticed
before that if there is one seagull loitering near you
doesn't tend to come close. But if there's some competition nearby,
and it's sort of a flock of seagulls, you could

(01:01:11):
be inundated with them trying to check take your fish
and chips. And scientists have worked out that there was
actually readson for this.

Speaker 14 (01:01:18):
This is a lovely study. It's published this week in
the journal Royal Society Open Science. You can go read it.
It's open source. It's pretty fun to read because you
can see all the objects they put in the seagulls
to try and frighten them. But if anybody's ever had
their lunch or their chips snatched by a seagull, you
become wary next time you go to the beach. And
it's a beautiful sunny day here in Auckland, and I'm
heading to the beach after this with my kids and

(01:01:39):
I'm going to have their sandwiches, and you know the
seagulls are going to come over. But what I've learned
in this study is now you can assess your risk.
So this study was a study all about something called neophobia,
which is a trait that seagulls have, which is a
fear of the unknown. And they wanted to test whether
or not seagulls are afraid all the time or not.
So they did these wonderful and weird things with seagulls

(01:02:01):
and put weird objects in front of their food and
sort of studied when they would eat their food and
when they didn't, and what they found And this is
the science you can use at the beach today if
you're going, is if there is only one sea girl
on their own, then the chances are they're not going
to steal your chips. They found that on their own
girls hesitated more than three times longer to even approach

(01:02:22):
food than compared to when they were in a group,
and most of them never even approached the food when
they were on their own.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Can I ask a really dumb question, how do we
know that they have neophobia?

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
How you go? It's not like you can do a
survey and ask questions or fill out a questionnaire or anything.
You know, kind of get to the bottom.

Speaker 14 (01:02:40):
Well, luckily this group of scientists, if you read the paper,
there's a whole beginning chapter about neophobia in other types
of animals. So they have studied that this is their thing.
Neophobia is their thing. They look at how animals behave
in groups versus on their own, and how brave or scared.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Isn't a term that we do just apply to animals
humans as well. I think it's a general term. This
group who are looking are just looking at in animals. So,
and what they showed is that although were on their own,
they never approached the food or they've thought about it
for a long time. As soon as the girls were
in a flock, they they hung around for longer, they
started eyeing it up, and they had no fear in

(01:03:16):
coming over and taking the chips right out of your
hand as long as there was a group of seagulls nearby.
So here's the thing. If you're sitting at the beach
and there's a group of them, you're in trouble. If
there's just one, just leave them alone. But I know
what you're thinking. You go, well, that's not helpful, Micheau.

Speaker 14 (01:03:30):
What if there's a group of girls nextly, So I'm
going to go through some previous research that I was
led to from this paper which I didn't know about.
Number One, seagulls prefer food that they have seen humans
hold tightly too. So if you are holder on tightly
to your sandwich or your ice cream cone, then that's
making it more appealing for a girl to come and
swipe it. Just Number two University of Exeter to publish

(01:03:53):
this lovely study that said seagulls will take longer to
approach food if they feel that they are being watched.
So in the study they got humans to give a
seagull a really good glare and the seagull didn't come
near them. So this is what you need to do.
Don't hold your ice cream too tight and just stare
at all of the girls looking at your food, or

(01:04:14):
ideally just hang up with one goal and then you're
going to be good for your lunch.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
That is so interesting. Thank you so much, Michelle. I
love what you come up. We're very much appreciated. Mike
Vander Alison is worth us nick with beautiful sounding, risky
roasted cauliflower with Cafe de Paris butter. Yes, you are
going to spend a little bit of money on butter,
but the cauliflower is cheap. He is with us. Next,
it is twenty two to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Eleven the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Talks it Be, and it is time for our resident
chief Mike Vnder Alison. Good morning, Good morning, So this
week we're going to talk about cauliflower and butter. I
like the fact that you've got one that's sort of,
you know, relatively inexpensive, and one that she the price
just keeps clocking.

Speaker 8 (01:04:57):
Up, one that's going down in price, and one that's
rarely increasing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Do you use a lot of butter at the school?

Speaker 8 (01:05:06):
We try not, We try not to, but we were,
we were up until now and I and we were
using it from Costco because you could get the kilo
blocks of unsalted butter, and it was nine to ninety
nine for a kilo. And I went into the local
butcher over last weekend and they had half a half

(01:05:27):
of five hundred pound of butter.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It was fourteen ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Yeah, I start playing just under nine. So just your
normal slaber butter pack and save. But even that's just you.

Speaker 8 (01:05:40):
Know, but you know, and don't get me started, like
because they're getting better prices for it overseas well. Done
good on there, but why are we getting pinged as well?

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
You know anyway, I know, don't get me started.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
So you were going to talk about making a cafe
to Paris butter.

Speaker 8 (01:06:00):
Yeah, So I thought I thought I would take the
very expensive butter and I'd kind of put it in
the realm of say Truffle World or extra virgin Olible.
You know, it's an expensive commodity now, and so I
thought I'd take the butter and old and huance it.
I would take the butter. Instead of lathering it over
your toast or just checking a big block of it
over your freshly steamed beans, let's actually creates something out

(01:06:24):
of that butter that enhances it and makes it far
better than what fabulous butter or it is, so cafe
to Perry butter is what we call a compound butter.
So you take it and you add ingredients to it
to improve it. So there are a few ingredients within
this recipe, so just bear with me. It is a
long recipe. You may want to download it, but once

(01:06:46):
you make it, it is delicious. You put it over
green beans, you put it on tradition, you'd see a
little block of it sitting on top of your freshly
grilled scotch filet, mashed potatoes, a little bit of cafe
to perry butter, steam beans, a little bit of cafe
to barrier over the top. It is an incredible compound butter.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Because you can store it in the fridge, can't you?
For a while?

Speaker 19 (01:07:06):
Totally you can.

Speaker 8 (01:07:07):
It will stay in the fridge for six months, or
you can put it in the freezer indefinitely. Really, and
the trek is when you roll it up into your
little round tubes. You then portion it up and you
then freeze it. So all you're doing is pulling out
one little block of it. You can potentially put it
into ice cube trays and then freeze it and then

(01:07:27):
you just popping out an ice cube of cafe to
perry and at defrosts and then you can use it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Oh fantastic, right, give us a sense of this recipe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 5 (01:07:37):
Are you ready?

Speaker 8 (01:07:38):
So we start with three hundred grams of butter that's
just just unsalted if you can get it. I know
it's a little bit more expensive again, but hey, we're
already going to fifteen dollars. Let's go a little bit more.
Check that into a bowl, and then to that you
want to add a tablespoon of tomato ketchup or tomato sauce,
a tablespoon of dijon mustard, a tablespoon of capers that

(01:07:59):
have been chopped. I've got half a cuff of shalots
or white onions, just like half an onion that's been
finally dice. Tablespoon of flat leaf parsi that's been chopped up,
a tablespoon of thyme leaves that have been lightly chopped up.
Two clothes of garlic that have been peeled and smashed.
Six anchovy filets. All of this is about building flavor.
Six anchovy flavors that have been anchovy filets have been

(01:08:22):
chopped up. Tablespoon of brandy, a teaspoon of worcestershy sauce,
a teaspoon of sweet paprika, a teaspoon of curry powder,
a pinch of cane pepper. If you want a bit
of spice, the juice of one lemon, and a teaspoon
of salt. You might go, wow, is the flavor of
butter still going to be there after all of that? Yes,
it well, so just mix that all up and then

(01:08:44):
I just roll it in between some graaspberry paper into
a little log shape and then wrap it in a
clean film and then just make a big Christmas cracker
out of it. If you're going to store it in
the fridge, you can just store it like that. You
pull it out and just slice it as you need it.
Just cut through the cling film and then just peel
that off and you've got your cafe to perry butter.
But if you're going to freeze it, my suggestion is

(01:09:04):
to portion it up into nice little discs, put that
into a container, and then put the container into the
freezer and just plow on disc as you need it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
And then when you cook youol cauliflower, how do you
do that?

Speaker 8 (01:09:16):
I just blanch it boiling water as we know that
we know the gig boiling water. Drop it in heavily
salted water. If you're going to use the cauliflowers straight away,
you can basically drain it straight out of the water
into a fry pan a little bit of oil, saute
that off until you just dark getting a little bit
of color on the outside of that cauliflour, and then
throw in your cafe to Pirie butter a quick saute.

(01:09:36):
You don't want to overcook the cafe to Perry butter.
Ideally you want to just serve it as is, because
otherwise you're cooking out all those lovely flavors. Just tossing
your cafe to Perry butter. Give that a cook, toss,
serve it straight away. It is honestly, once you make
caf to Perry Butter and you use it, you will
use it over and over and over again, no matter
how much butter will go up.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Mike van Elsen, thank you so much for your time
this morning. You can find that recipe at newstokzb dot
co dot nz forward slash Sunday. We'll get that up
there for you today because as Mike said, it was
a you ingredients in that recipe, or you can find
it good from scratch dot co dot nz.

Speaker 7 (01:10:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Have you heard about this mouth taping trend. It's not
something that I would do. When you talk for a living,
I think I would panic if I woke up with
tape across my mouth. But some people claim it's good
for snores and to help you breathe through your nose.
So why is it important to breathe through your nose
and how best to do it? That is next in wellness.

(01:10:32):
You're with News Talks. He'd be it is thirteen to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Used talks.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
That'd be Erin is with us now. Erin O'Hara, good morning,
Good morning. You've got a really interesting topic today. Nose
versus mouth breathing so little something we talk about in
our house. It is really hard if you've been a
mouth breather to become a nosebreather. What what kind of
breather should we be? What's best for our health?

Speaker 20 (01:11:04):
Well, if you look back look at little time babies,
they always are breathing through their nose, even when they're feeding,
they're breathing through their nose so innately. Breathing through our
nose is actually our normal way of breathing. And I
think as things sort of pop up in our health,
we quite often, well we get more stress, we'll start
breathing more through our mouths. And it can be not

(01:11:26):
just for the reason of you forgetting to breathe through
your nose, but actually sometimes it actually can beat it
with the structure of the nose. Or maybe you've had
a cold or get really severe allergies and then that
has meant you've started breathing through your mouth, and then
that becomes more your new way of breathing. Or maybe
you're doing a mixture of breathing through your nose and

(01:11:46):
breathing through your mouth. But the benefits of breathing through
your nose is the nose has the benefit of filtering
the air. It also humidifies, it warms the air before
it actually ends up in your lungs, So it has
a really amazing effect of getting the air into the lungs.
And so when we breathe through our nose, it is

(01:12:08):
better for our health. It's going to help a lot
by filtering through all those bugs that could possibly end
up in our lungs and actually keep us healthier. So
if we can breathe through our nose, that is where
we want to breathe.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
You hear a lot about mouth tape these days, people
taping their mouths up when they go to sleep. I've
for a couple of reasons, one about nose breathing and
two to stop snoring, is what I've heard. Yeah, is
that a fad? Or is it? I would call it
a fad.

Speaker 20 (01:12:34):
It's something that when it came out, I was like, Oh,
I don't know if I'd like sleeping with my mouth
taped up, even though I probably do breathe through my
nose when I sleep. But it is something that is
incredibly popular at the moment, trending on social media. And
there's actually very limited research to back this one up,
so just know if you're going to give it a go.
It's a bit of an experiment really rather than research

(01:12:57):
back and maybe one day there will be some research
to back it up. But people claim that it actually
helps with easing, you know, snoring, reduce fatigue, concentration, improves
less bad breath, and maybe less thirst at night. So
it's something that maybe could be a good option. I
think even just bringing more awareness to breathing through the

(01:13:19):
nose can be incredibly beneficial, and that might be starting
with even just being aware of how you breathe, and
I think so many people don't actually bring any awareness
to how they breathe, whether they breathe shallow, whether they're
breathing deep into the lungs, whether you breathe through your
mouth or not your nose, do actually know that? And
I think even just being aware throughout your day of

(01:13:41):
how you breathe as a good starting point.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
I'm a dysunctional breathing I had to go and learn
how to breathe again last year. Amazing breathing physio got
me back on track to learn how to actually breathe
properly through my diaphragm. Do you know what I noticed?
It really did make a huge difference just to my
day to day life and strengths and things like that.

Speaker 16 (01:13:58):
It can have.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Our breathing can have quite an impact on our nervous system.

Speaker 21 (01:14:01):
Conduct huge, huge effect on your nervous system, on how
you're breathing, the pace of your breath, with your breathing shallow,
with your breathing rapidly, and if we want to feel calm,
we want to be able to breathe nice, long, deep breaths.
That makes our whole nervous system calm and balance. And
ways to kind of teach yourself to do that is
bring in some breathing techniques and it's not woo woo,

(01:14:25):
it's actually something that anyone can do. As breathing techniques
is starting with some basics of like bringing more awareness
to the breathing, maybe learning how to do die framatic breathing.
If you don't know what that is, you can always
google it and find out how to do die fromatic breathing.
There's lots of other breath patterns that in teachings we
also use as well as different breath patterns, breathing through

(01:14:48):
alternate nostril, maybe switching between mouth breath and nose breath,
and that can actually learn to sort of ways to
regulate your breathing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
Thank you so much, erin appreciate your time this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio empowered by.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
News Talks that be.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
Thank you very much for your text. Joel said, have
you ever seen a seagull on their own? They must
be sick. Now, occasionally, like if you're at the beach,
sometimes there just might be one wandering around near you.
The rest might be further down the beach or something.
But now we know we don't have to be afraid
of the one, just if they come towards you. On
mass somebody has text we were talking to Raynalwyn about

(01:15:31):
her memoir, which has now been turned into the film
The Salt Path. I completely loved this film, saw it
last weekend with my hubby. I'm in bed after a
night shift and I should be sleeping, but we'll listen
to this interview and then try and sleep a little
bit more. I'm glad you. I hope you enjoyed the interview.
Thank you for your text. Yesterday we released our final
episode of The Little Things for this season and we

(01:15:54):
spoke to Holly Wainwright. And if you listen to any
of the Mum and Maya podcasts, she's on those and
she also has her own podcast mid and she talks
about all the lots of different issues that women deal
within the Glory Years, which is kind of between thirty
five and sixty five. We had a really fantastic chat

(01:16:15):
to her about all sorts of things. It was a
very wide ranging conversation. She's really interesting. So if you're
looking for a new podcast to have listened to this week,
check out in The Little Things. You can find it
at iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts from.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
Georgia Lions is with us next. She has had a
crazy time since she released her debut album, The Rose
of Jericho. She's up for four out Our Music Awards
this Thursday. She's also had a Silver Scroll nom and
a Tate Award nomination. It's been all go. She also
has an amazing show lined up for the Cabaret Festival
in June. She's going to tell us all about that year.

Speaker 9 (01:16:49):
Next.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
On News Talks, heb this is Georgia Lions and MONOPOLYSSS School.

Speaker 16 (01:17:14):
Maybe you can't control me. You've got to let go.
I can't breathe your turning tables.

Speaker 7 (01:17:21):
And if you love me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Table It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wickles for
the best selection of great Reads Used Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
It be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Good to have you with us. Coming up, This is
our Jason Pine on the Footy, The Dream is over
for aukamdev Seat Meghan takes us to Mexico City.

Speaker 5 (01:18:15):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
And if you're a fan of John Lennon and for McCartney,
Joan has a new biography on the two, written from
a unique perspective.

Speaker 17 (01:18:23):
The Sunday Session, there run anywords anymore?

Speaker 9 (01:18:28):
As you empty the teorgy Sex was getting less than the.

Speaker 22 (01:18:32):
Papeets mean and no on the reason.

Speaker 9 (01:18:36):
We brooke to turn to gray.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
So every May since twenty twenty two, the wonderful and
generous Georgia Lions has come in for a chat and
the song and I love tradition. So for the fourth
straight year, she's back again. On Friday, Georgia released her
first single of twenty twenty five. It's called Wonderful Life
and she's going to perform it for us soon and
this Thursday she has a finalist for four toys at
the Artro Music Awards, including Single of the Year for

(01:19:02):
this song, the letter Georgia lines welcome. It is love
to see you again.

Speaker 23 (01:19:07):
It is so nice to be here. Thank you for
having me. And I love tradition too. I'm such a
tradition giral.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Great. So we committed. Then I'm going.

Speaker 23 (01:19:15):
Forever and ever and ever and always.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
Until you end up maybe based somewhere, but then we
can still do somebody we can. So yeah, very good point. Yes, hey,
look these music Awards. Last year you won Best Pop
Artist Breakthrough Artist in twenty twenty three. This year up
for another four awards, Album of the Year, Single of

(01:19:39):
the Year Best Solo Artist and Best Pop Artists, all
off the back of the debut album, The Rose of Jericho.
The album also got you nominated for Tait Awards and
the Silver Scrolls. It's done incredibly well and it's a
fantastic album. What is it like getting that kind of
recognition off the back of the debut album?

Speaker 23 (01:20:00):
Crazy? Reading that out, I'm like.

Speaker 24 (01:20:04):
Oh my goodness, me, you know, was not expecting any
of that. I just made an album that I was
really proud of and loved, and you know, it was
this byproduct of my own life and so it just
was what it was, and it was exactly what it
needed to be, and it was this marker of my journey.
And you know, I don't have any tattoos because I

(01:20:25):
changed my mind so often, I don't know what I
would get, but you know, this album was like a
tattoo for me. It was this very significant thing that
I had to say, and you kind of you don't
make things for the recognition, and so coming out the
back of that and having all of these lovely, you know, nominations,
it's crazy and pretty amazing. I cried when I saw

(01:20:50):
the email about the Music Awards. I just I think
there was a few things there. For me, I didn't
quite know how to feel.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
It was like.

Speaker 24 (01:20:57):
Feeling the sense of, oh, my goodness, like this project
that I've poured my life into, you know, meant something
to people, and it's been recogniz in that way. And
what an honor and a strange feeling too, being like
this thing that I've poured my life into has meant something.

Speaker 23 (01:21:13):
To other people as well. So yeah, it's been crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Because what you do, even if you have a team
around you, is very individual. It's something that you do
kind of do on your own, and you do put
yourself out there and you go, well, look, I'm proud
of it. I don't know how other people are going
to react to it. It sort of has a second
life where you know on it. Once it's out in
the public.

Speaker 24 (01:21:36):
You cannot control. Once something lives outside of your own
safety of your own little world, you know what people
say and how they respond and if things get misinterpreted,
which has happened so much, and you're like, I can't
control the narrative of what you think this album is about,
or what you think these songs are about. Like I
just I have created this as hopefully a gift to myself,

(01:22:00):
and then it's meant something to other people, so it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Okay, here we go. I often wonder whether the Taylors
were release an album and then just laughs at everybody's
interpretations of who it's all about. That I wonder if
she's just sitting there quietly behind the scenes, just having
a girl going. You've all got no idea, but I'm
glad you're loving it, and I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Do you see these awards as competition or a celebration?

(01:22:24):
Like is it good to sort of have that have
the competition against other words?

Speaker 24 (01:22:29):
I think it's such a celebration, you know, there is
this kind of strangeness to it where you're like, I
know all of these people and love all of these
artists that are creating incredible projects, which I am now
in a category against which is strange.

Speaker 19 (01:22:46):
You know.

Speaker 24 (01:22:46):
I want them to do well, and I want them
to be celebrated and acknowledged. I just honestly think it's
such a lovely thing to be celebrated and to go,
you know, with your team. I'm bringing my family, which
is really nice, to the night and to kind of
be like, you know, we've done this this project and
look at what we've done, and let's hang out together.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
And I don't know, I know that you're a big
champion of undiscovered talent. Yes, tell me a little bit
about the Intro series.

Speaker 24 (01:23:15):
Yeah, this is I think the fourth I could have
that wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
I should know.

Speaker 24 (01:23:20):
This the fourth season that we've done. So if you
haven't heard of Intros before, it is an online web
series where I interview up and coming artists based here
in Alto, and we talk about their journey, we talk about,
you know, the things they've learned. When we came up
with this idea, we realized that there was such a

(01:23:43):
big group of artists everywhere constantly that were kind of
doing amazing things and not no one was discovering them,
or they were kind of getting a little bit not
necessarily lost, but they're fighting really hard to be heard.
And I remember that feeling when no one really cared
what you did and you couldn't get an interview and
you couldn't you know, come and see you every year.

(01:24:06):
And I was like, how do we help that, How
do we kind of bridge that gap where we can
have a conversation, you know, there might be a following
already for that person, but there's there's going to be
so many unknown unknown what am I saying? So many
people that don't know that artist? So how do we
kind of spotlight and create that platform. And then on
the other hand, which I'm very passionate about, is trying

(01:24:28):
to create a resource for artists, Like how do we
share the knowledge of the things that we've learned and
got wrong along the way or had to find out
the hard way. How do we create some content in
a way that artists can you know, see and understand.
It's not just reading like a big giant.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
What do you call it?

Speaker 24 (01:24:47):
Textbook textbook or some blog post that is very hard
to read, or you know, online web forum, Like how
can we help each other? So that's what intros has
been about, and we will continue to do.

Speaker 23 (01:25:02):
Intros also Believe Forever and Always.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
Now tow about under the Stars. So on June fifteenth,
you're performing your biggest show to date, Under the Stars
with Friends. It's part of the Cabaret Festival. You're not
only performing in it, but you're curating it as well.
Talk to me about the idea behind this show.

Speaker 24 (01:25:20):
I'm so excited I'm so excited. We've been talking about
the show for a little while. The team came to
us and said, you know, we're curating the festival, the
Cabaret Festival, and we want you to put together a
night for us on the closing night of the Cabaret Festival,
which is such an honor.

Speaker 23 (01:25:40):
I'm like, ah, sure, Like okay, thank you.

Speaker 24 (01:25:43):
So we came back to them with this idea of
doing a show partly in the dark, which is where
the under the Stars, you know, kind of title of
the show comes in, where there's a portion of in
the middle of the show where the curtain comes down,
so the audience no longer sees what's happening on stage
and the stars. If you've ever been in the Civic

(01:26:04):
you know that incredible star ceiling. So the star I
don't know what they call it, the sequence of the
stars will happen and it'll be this very intimate moment
for yourself where you can hear the music and kind
of sit in that space but also be by yourself
with your eyes closed or eyes open and kind of

(01:26:27):
very sensory. You're just you're you're focused on what you're hearing.
And so we wanted to create something that was an
experience for people and something that you know, it wasn't
just your typical show. How can we create a moment
where people really remember and feel something deeply. So we
have you know, amazing artists Louis Baker, Holly Smith, Nico

(01:26:48):
Grace coming to join me, which is going to be amazing.
And we've got members from the API as well, so
and it's in the civic Like, I just feel like,
what an amazing show. It's going to be incredible. There's
so many people working so hard to pull the show together.
So yeah, come along.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Tell me about this new song, Wonderful Life that you're
about to perform for us.

Speaker 24 (01:27:11):
New song, Yes, very very exciting. I have been holding
onto this one for a little while. It's the first
release since my album. And I don't know if you
ever do this or if I'm the only person that
does this in the whole entire world, but I love
writing things out and post it notes and putting them
on my mirror and putting them on my fridge, and

(01:27:32):
you know, creating little walls of collections of postcards and
things that have kind of spoken to me or affirmed
something in my.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
Real life page, real life page used to do with
your pens and your you know, like a real life
I mean, I did that ever since I was a kid.

Speaker 23 (01:27:50):
It was just I loved to collect.

Speaker 24 (01:27:51):
And have this kind of like you say, a mood board.
And I've been doing that again and loving you know this.
I don't know where it kind of came from, but
I kind of kept saying to myself, you will live
a wonderful life. It's a wonderful life. And I kind
of kept saying that. I use the word wonderful all
the time anyway, which I've obviously said unintentionally throughout this

(01:28:14):
interview so many times. But it's just a word that
happens to roll out of my brain. And this saying
has just attached itself to me over the last few years.
And I really wanted to write about that and include
that in you know, a song. And so Matt Hales,
who wrote the song and produced the song with me,

(01:28:36):
he wrote with me and produced the song, shouldn't take
credit for that because he's done an amazing job. Yeah, we
wrote this together in La and in the dingy little
studio that looked like someone's garage, and the song kind
of just rolled out and it was so fun to make.
I love it so much. It just feels like this.

(01:28:59):
I don't know, I don't know how to describe that,
very human, very textured, these sixties drums and this acoustic
guitar that I am playing. Yeah, it feels good to
take it out. You're going to perform it for us.
Now you've got Dave with us. Yes, well, good Dave, Yes,
fantastic shou we do it.

Speaker 25 (01:29:17):
It's still it, Okay, California is ours now.

Speaker 15 (01:29:30):
It feels like Dodream, Pine and Crane in the same
when or walking.

Speaker 9 (01:29:44):
There's fars Anil still at the beach. So whatsever will
drive away from the seat, so a letting you go
because it's a wonderful baby on the full life.

Speaker 22 (01:30:09):
Even as waving good back to look back, you're gonna
make it just fayocause.

Speaker 9 (01:30:18):
It's all on a full day.

Speaker 26 (01:30:22):
Baby, it's a beautiful day, even though you're walking all
way to look back and know one too been okay,
cuts out the full line.

Speaker 9 (01:30:39):
It's on underful life.

Speaker 27 (01:30:44):
Who I was leaving from tourmental way, I was waiting
and he asks, what do you think it would feel like?

Speaker 9 (01:31:04):
Falling? Now it's tay, it's on it till your dream's gone.
And I guess you still don't.

Speaker 22 (01:31:18):
But it's a want a full life, baby.

Speaker 9 (01:31:22):
So want to full life.

Speaker 22 (01:31:26):
Even that's waving goodbye to back, You're gonna make it
just fine.

Speaker 9 (01:31:35):
Because it's won a full day. Baby. It's a beautiful
day even though you're walking away down back.

Speaker 22 (01:31:48):
You know, I'm too man, okay, because it's a wonderful life.

Speaker 26 (01:31:56):
Baby's a want a full life, even.

Speaker 22 (01:32:01):
Not waving good bye t the back, You're gonna make
it just fine.

Speaker 9 (01:32:09):
And full day.

Speaker 26 (01:32:13):
Baby, it's a beautiful day.

Speaker 9 (01:32:17):
Even though you working away doll back and no one
too o.

Speaker 28 (01:32:26):
And it's soonder fool, it's wanderful who go on time,
just keep untravel so and letting you go.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
Georgia Dave, thank you so much. That was absolutely fantastic.
Thank you so much for having us, and we will
get that. We also made a video of that. We
will get that up at Newstalk's e Beato co dot
in zed Slash Sunday for you also to enjoy. That
was the wonderful Georgia lines. The song Georgia just performed

(01:33:19):
is out now on all streaming platforms. If you're keen
to capture as part of the Cabaret Festival. Her show
was called Under the Stars with Friends. It's taking place
on June fifteenth. Tickets are on sale now. Coming up next,
we've got the panel here on the Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:33:36):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths us talk set be.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
And it is time for the panel. And today I
am joined by Coast Day host and host of Trip
Notes podcast, Laurna Riley. Good morning, Launa, Good morning Francesca.

Speaker 9 (01:33:56):
And we have.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
Partner at Freebarn and here lawyers Liam Here. How are
you Liam?

Speaker 8 (01:34:00):
Oh, very good.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
Good to have you with us. Okay, So, of course
we had budget week and I've got a broad question
for you. But Lorda, does this budget give you confidence
about our economy going forward?

Speaker 29 (01:34:13):
Not really?

Speaker 7 (01:34:13):
No.

Speaker 29 (01:34:15):
I think there was some sensible measures in there. I'm
all for the Kiwi Savor changes. I think the bottom
line is we don't have enough money and we're not
going to have enough money moving forward, and it's hard
to see where more cuts can be made. And you
can't keep taking more money away from people who don't
have it. So I'm thinking we need to start asking
some serious questions about raising the retirement age and perhaps

(01:34:39):
introducing a capital gains tax, both of which I realize
are extremely unpopular measures for any government.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
But we're actually going to have to We're going to
actually have to have those conversations, aren't we them? We
actually have to grow up and have those uncomfortable conversations.

Speaker 19 (01:34:52):
Well at some point, right, I mean, I'm absolutely in
full agreement. I think there was a you know, there
was a there was a there was significant realignments in
the budget, significant reallocations. But the big thing is going
to be the ongoing cost of the of superannuation and
there's nothing in there for that. And look, something is
like economists say, if you can't go on forever, it

(01:35:14):
won't go on forever. And we are just putting off
the evil day when when they have so so for
all the cuts and all the restraint in this budget,
the debt is still being added to and it's not
there's no there's no turning around in sight. So we
are putting off that evil day. We we're gonna have
to address it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
But there also land one of cuts, right, so you
know what happened. Your question then is saying what happens
next year? I mean, do we then completely remove the
keep we say the government's contribution.

Speaker 5 (01:35:43):
Well, well, well I hope not.

Speaker 19 (01:35:46):
I mean on Keevy Save. Look, the thing is key
Saver remains probably quite generous by by world standards, and
the move towards you know, having more more of it
being coming from the employer and the employee contribution is sensible.
But I guess the thing is is that this is

(01:36:06):
this is a budget where we're still hoping for growth
to see upin right and to solve a lot of
the problem. So the idea would be that if we
have a growth mindset and the and the economy turns around,
it starts to grow strongly, then we're not going to
relate need to rely on making further cuts and too
much further astraight because the money will flow in from
the from the growth. Now, the modeling for the for

(01:36:29):
the treasure that the Treasury did is very conservative on inflation,
can't optimistic on growth. So you know, like any forecast,
the forecast and good weather to come and just you know,
that's not something we can control, so maybe we'll need
to do further cutting. You know, we're down to the
bone almost, but that the government will be hoping that

(01:36:50):
actually the weather will be good and that we don't
have to I.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
Love to talk about growth, launa, but I'm not confident
we're going to see an economy growth for the next selection,
aren't we.

Speaker 29 (01:37:00):
Liam knows a lot more about this stuff than I do,
But all I would say is, yeah, that is a
big if the economy grows, And yeah, I'm not optimistic
at all.

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
I mean, it's not something that happens overnightly and but
how long would you give a government to see a
decent amount of growth or we just stuck with our.

Speaker 19 (01:37:19):
Control But we can't call it into existence, right, It's
we're part of a world economy, and so you know,
you know, over time the economies do grow and we
become more prosperous over time. That's dorocally been the case.
But we know there are things that they can do.
I think, you know, there was there was talk of
it where they were and cut the corporate tax rate,

(01:37:41):
but is said they've gone for this depreciation acceleration, and
you know that will that will spur some investment, but
it won't be enough itself to kick things up another year.
So listen that like all governments, you know, they're just
waiting that they are, to a large extent beholden on
the world economy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
Yeah, and looks as David Seymour, who was in the
studio earlier this morning. We'll get to him in just
a moment. He said, you know, all local parties have
to have a discussion about whether you're what you're going
to cut, borrow or tacks over the next five years.
You know, you can't ignore it any longer. Spot on, Hey,
talking about David Seymour. He is, of course on the
thirty first. He's about to become our new Deputy Prime Minister.

(01:38:22):
As we do this funny little thing wherehere, you know,
we you know, switch roles and things. He has implied
the job might restrain him a little lorna. I'm not
sure if it's going to have a huge impact on
the way he goes about his business.

Speaker 29 (01:38:39):
Possibly not, although I'm hoping it'll keep him quite busy,
so he's middling in areas that he doesn't need to.
I'm actually quite pleased. I know some people say they're
scared about him taking over, I'm actually pleased. I think
he brings on the upside, brings a passionate positivity to
the role that perhaps has been missing with Winston Peters

(01:38:59):
in there, and relative youth to the role as well.
I certainly don't agree with all of acts policies, but
I don't think he's going to have any more sway
as a deputy Prime Minister than he would as just
part of the coalition government. So I think I'm prepared
to give him the benefit of the doubt and see

(01:39:20):
how he goes in the role.

Speaker 3 (01:39:21):
But as he said this morning, Liam, it doesn't actually
affect him hugely day to day. You know, it's just
a couple of days here and there. He might steep
up as acting Prime minister.

Speaker 19 (01:39:29):
Yeah, So the thing that matters most about the being
Deputy Prime Minister as the ego booster having that title.
There's not much else to the job, really, Like if
the Prime Minister goes overseas, you might get to be
the acting Prime Minister for a bat and that might
make him feel good about things, but it's not like
an influential, institutionally influential role. And Wilson Peters said, no,

(01:39:53):
trouble was probably being pretty contentious as a deputy Prime minister,
including telling off Christph Luxen for reddling in a foreign
affair like his own Prime minister. And so you know,
I I don't think David Seymore was going to find
have too much trouble remaining David Seymour. I mean it
was funny though, because this handover, this job sharing, was

(01:40:14):
one of the sticking points of the Coalition negotiations. But
it doesn't matter very much at all, apart from the
fact that they quite like having their job part of
having it on the CV, so that's the main effect.
The main effect is it's a nice thing for David
Seymore to have in the CV that he's Stipuli romniz
d in New Zealand.

Speaker 29 (01:40:32):
I just loved his diplomacy this morning when you asked
how he ranked Winston Peter's in the role and he
basically only talked about the foreign affairs role and to
actually answer the question. So I think, you know, you
can take diplomacy there for David Seamore.

Speaker 3 (01:40:46):
I noticed that as well. Yeah, anyway, let's move on
enhanced games. I find this fascinating. We're going there, this
is going to take place in May next year, and
of course this is when athletes are encouraged to track
all the substances which are banned normally in sport to
see how fast and how superhuman they can become. And

(01:41:07):
we had a couple of experts on this morning that
just went okay, that's all very good and well, And
apparently this has been spoken about for a very very
long time. But finally now some of these you know,
billionaire tech guys have come on board and they're paying
to put these games on because they too are very
interested in longevity. But what I discovered this morning, and
there isn't a huge amount of longevity. There's a huge
amount of concern around taking some of these substances laurna,

(01:41:30):
I mean, you know, and doesn't seem to be any
ethics around it.

Speaker 29 (01:41:35):
Well yeah, I mean a cynic might say that we've
already had enhanced games for years with the Olympics. It's
not a case of who's taking what drugs, but who's
got better masking agents. And you know, we've got things
like the one hundred meters world record for women Florence
Griffith Joyner that may never be beaten without some kind
of use of enhanced drugs. But yes, there are massive

(01:41:55):
dangers with it, but then there's massive dangers with any
drugs that people choose to take rightly or wrongly. So
I'm a bit of a hypocrite because although I think
it's very dangerous, I also think that I will probably
watch it just to see how far the human body
can be pushed. Would I encourage my children to aim
for the enhanced games?

Speaker 30 (01:42:13):
No way.

Speaker 3 (01:42:14):
No, that's interesting you say that, because I too am
just a little bit curious to see how fast they
can go. But Liam, it does concern me because you've
got people taking these drugs looking a certain way, saying
I feel eighteen again. Isn't this great? And I do
worry because there are a lot of especially young men
out there at the moment who were really concerned about
how they look. Social media is having a massive impact

(01:42:35):
on men and their body image, and I don't really
want them thinking, Okay, I'm going to start tearing into
a bit of this at the gym.

Speaker 19 (01:42:42):
I don't think it's very spiritually healthy, you know, And
in some ways this is inevitable over the last sort
of century, sort of dying off of the amateur ethos
and I know that the amateur ethos was really much
our time and place, but it was this idea that
you know, sport is part of life, and that you
know it was about character, and that you know, in fact,

(01:43:04):
you know even if you practice too much, that was
considered to be sort of cheating almost in a way.
And we've got and with this, we're going in the
complete opposite extreme, and we're going to this thing where
you know, the human the humans and the participating and
are kind of like specimens, you know, they're like gladiators.
We're going back to a much more granatorial ethos rather

(01:43:24):
than an amateur wonder where it's not about character, but
it's about the maximum entertainment for the viewers and for
the people who like who use might be curious or
sometimes morbidly curious about what's going to happen and in
how far things can be pushed. And so you know,
I suppose I said it's not the it's not the
death of amateurism or the amateur ethos that happened a

(01:43:46):
long time ago that we're finally burying it with this.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
I think Liam here Lorura Riley, thank you very much
for your time this morning, and enjoy the rest of
your Sunday. We are going to head to Mexico City
next with Megan Singleton. It is twenty four to twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
Rudkin on News Talks at b Travel with Windy Woo
Tours where the World is yours for.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
Now and joining us now is Megan Singleton, blogger at
large dot com. Good morning, Good morning. Oh I'm just
getting fomo. I'm just I'm just you know, what is
it when you look at people's travel photos and then
you just come yeah, okay, we'll just called it for
a Mexico City. You've done a wonderful post which gives
you a four day tour of Mexico City. Taught me

(01:44:36):
through it. It looks amazing.

Speaker 31 (01:44:38):
Yeah, loof. I nearly didn't even go to Mexico City
on this tour because I thought, oh well, I just
thought it was a big concrete jungle and that would
have been such a tragedy had I not added it.
And it's only about a two and a half hour
flight from Cancun and then another two and a half
hour flight to Los Cabos. So those who have been
listening to us know that I took my Mexico tour

(01:44:58):
about maybe ten or twelve days long, and we started
in Cancun. We went to Mexico City for three nights,
but I've written this up to cover four because we
really didn't you have enough time.

Speaker 16 (01:45:10):
But we saw the highlights.

Speaker 31 (01:45:12):
It's quite high altitude, it's about two and a half
thousand meters. At the time, I had a bit of
a chest cough, so I put that down to the altitude,
but it was actually not really that noticeable. I chose
to stay right in the historic part of town because
it was easy to bob out and go to some shops,
and there's museums and the big cathedral there and lots

(01:45:34):
of sort of people watching and rooftop bar on our
hotel is amazing. So I've added all that and so
people can just jump on those links. So a couple
of day trips we did, which was amazing. We went
out to see some more pyramids. So if you weren't
going to get all the way to Cancun and you
wanted to see your main pyramids and stuff, you could
do that from Mexico City and then you know, do

(01:45:54):
some other parts of Mexico can kun is still very touristy,
and you know, probably wouldn't need to go back there,
but you know, nothing against it. Went to Free to
Carlo's house, which is now a museum, and that was
quite sober and gosh, she had a tragic life. Holy
I was a child, then a terrible bus accident, and

(01:46:14):
she basically painted her pain. Really she was bedridden for
so many years and in a wheelchair before that. The
food scene's amazing. There's a Micheline dining scene in Mexico City.
We went to one Micheline restaurant one evening and went
floating on a river at some unesco protected brightly colored

(01:46:37):
boats that you get sort of punted along and the
mariachi bands come alongside, and then they bored you for
about thirty bucks. They'll sing you a song, but it's hilarious.

Speaker 5 (01:46:46):
We never laughed so hard.

Speaker 31 (01:46:48):
You can go whole air ballooning.

Speaker 16 (01:46:49):
There's markets.

Speaker 31 (01:46:51):
Just absolutely loved it, and I would go back in
a heartbeat.

Speaker 3 (01:46:54):
But just the streets are amazing, aren't they, Megan. Do
you know that the frescoes, the artwork and things like that,
great place to wander around.

Speaker 31 (01:47:02):
See artwork is incredible And I would definitely want to
do a mural arts walking to I've actually found one
to add in because you've got Diego Riveras Rivera's murals
everywhere and they're iconic and I didn't get a chance
to see them. Yeah, so that's another whole, beautiful, colorful
part of Mexico City.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Thank you so much, Meghan. Her blog is up. You
can find a blogger at large dot com if you're
just thinking of having a little jaunt to Mexico. Right
up next to Jason pine Is with us to talk
sported is eighteen to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:47:33):
It's a Sunday session full show podcast on iHeartRadio, powered
by News Talksbick Consu.

Speaker 22 (01:47:43):
Gick conzas Nasic.

Speaker 7 (01:47:47):
It's allah.

Speaker 3 (01:47:51):
A little bit of Beatles there, just to chair up
the Auckland FC fans, but also because Joan has this
really fantastic new biography of John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
To talk about coming up shortly, but first up Jason
pine Is worth me good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (01:48:04):
Can I please start with a text from Muzz who said, Francisco,
when you talked to Piney, tell him I told him
to stop talking about the final As we hadn't won
the and I'll take out that word semi final yet
and now look what happened. The guy got ahead of
himself again, gutted because I was a bandwagon jumper who
just started watching football. So there is there is an

(01:48:26):
Aukland FC fan that's you know. I mean, you've got
to find you gotta name someone. Pony.

Speaker 4 (01:48:30):
Well, I suppose so, but I think he's over estimating
my influence on the game, if I'm honest. Look, I'm
not out there. I'm just watching on with everybody else.
But look, yeah it was it was.

Speaker 3 (01:48:41):
All those crying children, I know, the game yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
And that's the thing with Auckland FC fans, They've never
had this before. They thought, you know, awkleand f C
has just won everything this year. So you know, especially
young fans, they got this is just what fandom is.
So it's actually a bit of a reality check for
them because as we all know, sports fandom as a
roller coaster. But it was a shame to see it
all come to an end last night unexpectedly. You know,
Melbourn Victory hadn't scored a goal against Auckland FC in

(01:49:05):
three previous games, got a couple and five minutes in
the second half and all of a sudden they're in
the Grand Final and the Black Knights are not.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
But none of this can take away from what an
extraordinary first season. It's been like really hard and very
abrupt ending to the season, and I feel for them,
but you've also got to take a moment and go
golf clap.

Speaker 4 (01:49:24):
Not bad, absolutely right, And I think it'll take them
a little while before they can actually take some pride.
They'll be very flat today, They'll be extremely flat wondering
what if, you know, how could we have done things differently?
What if that goal hadn't been disallowed? All that sort
of stuff. But you're right, when there's a bit of
distance between this game and they're current thinking, they will
they'll look back and say, hey, no one expected this.

Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
Rugby super Rugby Mina Pacifica has been one of my
favorite stories this season. I have just loved watching them play.
So what an earth happened last night against the Chiefs
incredibly eighty five seven loss?

Speaker 4 (01:49:57):
Yeah, an outlier. It has to be an outlier because
even when they've lost this season Wuita Pacifica, they haven't
been smashed. They've been in fact They've scored a lot
of tries to lose early in the season. They were
one of the leading points scorers early in the season
when they lost their first three games. But yeah, I
honestly think it's an outlier. I think the Chiefs just
came to play off the back of a scratch year

(01:50:18):
performance last couple of weeks from them and Mowanna can
just I think, flush the duney and move on from
that one and try and beat the Hurricanes next week.
And that's a famous phrase from Hanson. I didn't just
make that up, Okay, I didn't just come up with that. Yeah,
they play the Hurricanes next week, win that, and they're
still on them with a chance of making the six.

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
He's on the show's day.

Speaker 4 (01:50:40):
Are going to talk some rugby and also some football.
But first up, Louis brann out of the Warriors. He's
designed a special jersey for them to wear tonight, big, big,
big night at Go Media as the Warriors take on
the Raiders.

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
Oh I can't wait. Thank you so much, Parney. It
is twelve to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Books with Wiggles for the best election of Greek Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:51:02):
Joe McKenzie is with me now, Good morning, good morning.
What have you got for us?

Speaker 32 (01:51:06):
I've got John Boyn, who's one of my favorite favorite authors.
He's an Irish writer. I've loved his books for years,
and the one that I'm talking about today is called
Air Air, which is the fourth in a series of
novels based on the four Elements. He did Water, Earth, Fire,
and now Air. And they're not long books. They're around
one hundred and sixty hundred and seventy pages, but they're

(01:51:28):
really great character portraits of people who are all damaged
individuals and difficult circumstances and whose lives haven't gone in
the way that they expected. My favorite book of his, actually,
i'll just have a shout out for it is The
Hearts and Visible Furies, which I absolutely loved, which is
about six seven hundred pages long and really tells the

(01:51:49):
arc of a person's life. But in these shorter books
he shows that he can do it in a much
briefer version as well.

Speaker 3 (01:51:56):
Sorry, the character is the same throughout this series. There's
just literally a series of name.

Speaker 32 (01:52:01):
It's a series of name based on the as I said,
the four elements. Okay, so the first one, Water, which
was set on an island, Water all around where a
woman goes to hide away after her husband's very publicly disgraced.
The second one was Earth, which is all about themes
of guilt and being responsible for when things go wrong.
Fire was about the central character was a surgeon who

(01:52:23):
specializes in skin grafts. And now in this latest one,
it's fittingly set on an aeroplane at thirty thousand feet
up in the air, and you've got an adolescent boy
who's very embarrassed by his father and very awkward, and
they're traveling together. He felt abandoned by his mother and
his father's had a lot going on in his life
that this kid knows nothing about. And on this journey

(01:52:45):
where they're heading from Sydney where they live, to Ireland
to a woman who doesn't know that they're on their
way to see her, the story of his father's life
is revealed to the child and by the time they
get there, they've got quite a lot going on. It's
beautifully done, wonderful. Now tell me about John and Paul
by end Leslie. Well, it's a bit of a thematic

(01:53:08):
link today actually, because I talked about the characters being
damaged individuals in John Boyne's books and part of the
premise of this book about obviously John Lennon and Paul McCartney,
is that when they met, they were two young, damaged
kids because Paul's mother had recently died and John felt
very abandoned by his mother, Julia, and they got together.

(01:53:29):
And the essence of this book is that male friendships
take many forms. And whilst we all revere their songwriting partnership,
actually what they did was use their lyrics and their
music to communicate with each other, and they had a
very deep emotional bond that when words couldn't, you know,
conversations couldn't help them get through in the way that

(01:53:49):
many men particularly can find difficult to have these deep conversations,
they could do it with each other through their music.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
So it is a biography, but just with a different
from a kind of angles.

Speaker 32 (01:53:59):
Yeah, and it's a great angle because every chapter is
the title of one of their songs. So you go
from in the beginning as a song called I Lost
my Little Girl, which I think I'm very pleased I
can't remember, but then it goes through things like Yesterday
and eleanor Rigby and Strawberry Fields Forever and I Am
the War Rush so lots and lots and lots of

(01:54:19):
chapters based around the songs, what was happening at the
time that they were written, the relationship between them, and
the fact that they've managed to use their music to
really speak not only to the world but quite intimately
to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:54:32):
So if you think that you know pretty much all
there is to know about John and Paul, this actually
there's something new and.

Speaker 32 (01:54:37):
That I haven't read everything that's ever been written on
the Beatles, but this seems to me to be a
really clever way of telling that story. And there's so
many insights in here that I had never seen anywhere else.
Oh lovely, Yeah, it's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
Do you need to love the Beatles or is it
just still a really interesting story about two people and
a relationship. I think it is.

Speaker 32 (01:54:57):
It helps if you love the Beatles. But the other
thing is, as you're reading through these chapters, you know,
you get to she Loves You, you can then play
the song and you can listen to the lyrics and
then reference it back to these chapters that you're reading
that tell you about what was going on at the
time they wrote.

Speaker 3 (01:55:12):
It's really good. Well, that is very cool. Thank you,
so much Joan. So that last book was John and
Paul by En Leslie and Air by John Boyne, which
took next week.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
See you then the Sunday Session full show podcast on
iHeartRadio powered by News talks'b.

Speaker 3 (01:55:27):
Thank you very much for joining us this morning here
on the Sunday Session. Coming up next, Jason Pine is
with you with Weekend Sport. Next week on the show,
we continue the live music with Mel Parsons in studio.
We're going to finish with one of her songs, this
is post high Slide. Also next Sunday, I'm joined by
Clare Turnbull, nutritionalist who has a new book out. It's

(01:55:48):
called End Your Fight with Food, so really looking forward
to having her on the show as well. I hope
you enjoy the rest of your Sunday afternoon, have a
great week. Thank you to Carey for producing the show.
Take care We'll see you next Sunday.

Speaker 30 (01:56:03):
Can you take me on pos Taster? I know that
it bot you take me your spine goos Se, I
don't know that it's cooling, Bolles. You take me on

(01:56:26):
Ron Pocasta and I know you that its botast.

Speaker 8 (01:56:34):
Do you take me on story?

Speaker 9 (01:56:37):
Bull said?

Speaker 29 (01:56:40):
I Know This.

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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