February 15, 2025 • 17 mins
Cancer nearly took Jake Bailey's life at 18, but he used the experience to inspire other young people after he survived his brush with death.
Nine years ago, Bailey made the headlines for delivering an inspirational prizegiving speech weeks after he'd been diagnosed with rapid blood cancer Burkitt’s non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.
Once in remission, he studied positive psychology to try and get the answers to eventually give the next generation the ability to overcome life's ups and downs.
This resulted in his latest book - The Comeback Code.
"I'm incredibly fortunate and privileged - in many ways, but to have had access to treatment, to have had the opportunity to be treated and cared for by an incredible medical team here in Christchurch and to be really fortunate and really privileged to have survived it and come out the other side."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks. Edb Right, I.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Am sure that this is one of the news stories
that we all remember. Back in twenty fifteen, christ Each
Boys high head boy Jake Bailey gave an inspirational end
of year speech from a wheelchair, just weeks before he
had been diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. Jake's
journeys through cancer treatment left him with many questions around
how we face and overcome adversity Once in remission, he
(00:34):
studied positive psychology to try and get the answers his
vision to give the next generation the ability to overcome
life's ups and downs. The result is a book called
The Comeback Code, and Jake Bailey joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Now, good morning one of Francesca. How's the going really good?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh Stokes, to be here. Thank you very much for
the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Wondering if you can put into words what it has
been like, what it is like to be told that
you have two weeks to live.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, it's a funny one.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
That's a question with Joe didn't get actually, particularly when
I work with young people and students. I think that,
you know, for them, they probably heard a little bit
of my story and maybe find themselves trying to picture
what that could or would be like. And as I
often tell them, it's a great question with a really
really boring answer, unfortunately, which is that it feels like
(01:25):
not a huge amount. It kind of wasn't necessarily any
of the things which you would expect to feel. I
wasn't angry or upset or scared or afraid or maybe
any of those things which had instinctively expect it to
be like. It felt like not a huge amount. And
maybe if there was anything, there was probably a little
bit of a sense of just wanting to crack it
(01:46):
and get started. I knew that, you know, the only
way to get through was going to be going through
the treatment, going through the chemotherapy, and coming out the
other side, and so there was maybe a little bit
of a sense of wanting to get on with it.
But yeah, it doesn't, in my case at least kind
of feel like a huge amount.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Interesting. I mean, you don't do things by halves, do you.
I mean, it was quite a diagnosse as, as you
say in the book, you were the usane bolt of dying.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
That's yeah, a bold claim to make with particularly without
broader context around it, I suppose, but it's yeah, it was.
It was a very aggressive, very very aggressive and fast
growing form of cancer. And you know, I'm incredibly fortunate
and privileged in many ways, but I guess first of
all to have had access to treatment, secondly to have
(02:32):
had the opportunity to be treated by and kid for
by an incredible medical team here in christ Church, and
then third to have been really fortunate and really privileged
to have I guess, survived it and been able to
come out the other side and make it out and
continue to move on in life.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So how has having cancer changed you?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Look, I mean, there's probably so many ways that it
would be easier to list the things which it hasn't
changed as much as that is a cliche, but I
think probably at its core, I guess the resilience was
the main thing that I took away from the cancer.
I think, particularly as a young person, you know, going
into the cancer, being eighteen, where in the weeks and
(03:11):
months prior to the diagnosis, I've been worried and worrying
about these very average, regular kind of teenage things like
you know, bad exam results, were not making sports teams
i'd tried for, or having fall outs with mates, or
being self conscious, as I think we all are when
we're that age, and then to come through the cancer,
to come out the other side three months later, and
(03:33):
to have I guess some skills or tools or strategies
around resilience which I've learned from going through the cancer,
which had fundamentally changed how I felt about life. I mean,
I came out and I was no longer kind of
weighed down or bogged down by a lot of these
things which previously had been quite a burden or it
had caused me a lot of I guess anxiety and
(03:55):
worry as a young person. And yeah, I think, at
its core, I mean, that's probably been the biggest change
that's allowed me to be a i'd like to say,
a happier, optimistic, more grateful person after the cancer than
I was beforehand. And I think, at it's core, you know,
the basis for that in any of those things, that optimism,
that that happiness, all of those positive things comes from
(04:17):
having learned to be more resilient. And I guess that's
where my passion for resilience comes from.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Let's talk about this passion. We can we better equip
people to deal with challenge and challenges life throws at them.
Can we can we train ourselves to be more resilient?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Absolutely, unequivocally yes.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
And you know that's that's not my opinion, that's the research,
that's the evidence.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
That is what we can see. And I think, you.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Know, there's something quite empowering about the knowledge of that
as well. I think knowing that we can get better
and be better at getting through tough times allows us
to feel a little bit less, you know, untethered during
those tough times in adversity. The knowledge that we can
learn to be better at getting through this challenge makes
us feel as though we have some sort of control
(05:02):
and direction over what we go through and I guess
how we deal with it.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I think that there's.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Something quite empowering about that understanding in itself that a
big part of learning to be more resilient, a big
part of learning to be better at getting through tough times,
is actually going through those tough times. And I think
that that knowledge allows you to meet adversity and challenge
with the attitude of it being I guess a training
ground or looking to take something away from it, looking
(05:27):
to come out the other side more resilient and improved
by it. And I think that's kind of, I guess,
empowering in itself.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, let's talk about the four S model. I really
like this model. The first S is slow down, and
this is possibly one of my favorites because I think
you can actually put it into play in day to
day life. It's the idea of breaking big things down
into small, manageable chunks.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Absolutely, And I think that, you know, it's something which
is relevant and applicable to I guess, resilience into getting
through adversity. And I should stress as well that all
of this is evidence and research based and it's not
me sort of hypothesizing or proplytizing on things which I
think are great or cooler, things which have worked for
me or helped me get through challenges in life. You know,
these are things which we know for a fact make
(06:13):
people better at getting through tough times, make people more resilient.
So when it comes to slowing down, yeah, the idea
of breaking things up into more manageable, bite sized pieces.
This is not something which we just apply to challenge
and adversity in life. You know, this is how we
get through anything, So how we get through a task,
This is how we, I guess, break down goals and
work towards things that we want to achieve. This is
(06:36):
kind of you know, if you go to the gym.
You know, I don't, but I'm reliably informed that you
break your work down into sort of sets and reps,
right like I've been told by people. You know, I
do a bit of running, you know, and I know
that for me, when I go for a run, I'm
mentally breaking it down into you know, kilometers at a
time or blocks of five k's at a time, whatever
it may be, because it makes it a whole lot
easier than trying to approach it as one big, single
(06:58):
lump sum.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And you know, I can pull out a million.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Different examples of that from you know, cooking and recipes
to so on and so forth, but it's core. I
think it's something which is irrelevant and applicable to going
through tough times as well. You know, it works better
when you take it on whatever sized pieces you can manage,
whether that's a month at a time, a week at
a time, a day at a time, an hour at
a time. I know for all of your listeners, they
will have gone through challenge and adversity and suffering over
(07:23):
the course of their lifetime, and they would have found
themselves in moments where the sort I don't know how
I'm going to get through this this week, you know,
this day, that hour, this this whatever I have to
go through. And so the answer is generally you just
try and break it down into a smaller piece and
continually take those off one after another.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The second is is salvage. And I know that this
is one of your favorites, that something positive can come
out of adversity. How important do you think a sense
of humor is when dealing with advantage?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
I think a sense of humor is pivotal, really, and
again the research and evidence seems to suggest it this.
You know, there's some really fascinating research and evidence which
which shows that young people who come from families that
utilize humor as a coping mechanism or a coping strategy
during adversity, during tough times, go on to create young
people who are I guess, far more resilient and robust
(08:15):
and well adjusted later on in life. You know, if
you can learn that during tough times, things don't have
to be completely binary that things are not. You know,
if something is bad, it doesn't mean it has to
be all bad. If you can get into this mindset
that there can be you know, silver lightings or good
within the darkness or you know, sorry, light within the
darkness or good within the bad, then I think you
(08:37):
put you in a position where you're better able to
approach adversity not so much as an enemy or a challenge,
but instead to be able to deliberately seek out some
of these positive things. And you know, on that note
of humor again, this is sort of what humor is
at its core when it comes to getting through adversity.
If you can find something to laugh at during a
tough time, that really is the you know, the ultimate
(08:58):
and salvaging. If you can take some livity, if you
can take some lightness, if you can take some humor
away from a tough time, then the research shows that
that it really helps people gets through. And you know,
it's very easy to talk about you know, research and
evidence and so on and so forth, but I think
you know, if people, if your listeners, if you know
someone who worked particularly and I like giving the example
of nursing because I've spent a bit of time with nurses,
(09:20):
and when you do it, you come to find that
they have exceptionally dark, but incredibly well refined, fantastic senses
of humor, and they do that because it allows them
to get through. It's you know, they find themselves in
a lot of situations whether it's either a laugh or
cry moment, and you know, when your options are those two,
there's nothing wrong with the former, but I think kind
of ninety percent of the time you feel you feel
(09:43):
better with the latter. And that applies to I think
anyone in a high pressure, high stakes profession, whether it's
police or fieries or even teachers. I think a lot
of the time these people who operating these stressful environs
naturally gravitate towards utilizing humor because it works.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Your third is is streamline, and that is the idea
of sort of minimizing and containing the everyday anxieties and.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Fears we have.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And look, I know that this book is written for everybody,
young or old, but I'm gonna be honest with you
with as a mother who's just sent one kid off
to university and a whole lot of friends who are
in that sort of same process and things, and we're
watching the way our young adults are adapting to this
new sort of stage in life. I really did. I
read this book feeling like it sort of kin'd dropped
out of the sky into my lap at the perfect moment.
(10:29):
It feels to me like resource, which is very much
going to resonate with younger people. I think it's about
the way. It's the way you talk in the book,
and about the contributors that you talk to. But there's
a lot of talk about life at school, the pressures
on teenagers to plan out their lives, to fit in,
to find your thing, But not every teenager knows that
(10:53):
are we focusing on the wrong things when it comes
to growing happy, resilient, grounded young adults.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It's funny, you know, it's a great question. Are we
focusing on the wrong things? And in some ways potent
in other ways? I guess maybe not.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Which is really roundabout kind of answer.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
But to sort of expand upon that, I think, yeah,
the way that young people are increasingly encouraged to begin
to hyper specialize in fields of studying education earlier and
earlier is creating an expectation for young people that they
ought to have their life planned out by the time
that they're about thirteen or fourteen years old. And I
think often when I present to parents and communities around this,
(11:35):
there's a sense that I might be kind of utilizing
hyperbole to make a point here, when I'm genuinely not.
You know, a lot of the time, our schools are
expecting students to have sort of a relatively clear idea
on what they want to do by the time they're
kind of thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years old, because the expectation
is you will begin to choose subjects based on what
you want to do during your senior important years of
(11:57):
high school. I suppose, based on what you want to
do when you leave school, based on what you want
to do for the rest of your life. And again,
if that sounds like hyperbole, probably is just a reflection
of how much the education system has changed than some
of your listeners than it was for when some of
your listeners went through that experience. And I think, as
I say in the book, you know I've been told,
(12:19):
as as we all have many times, that you know
the world is your oyster.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
When when when you're young and you've got so many options.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
And opportunities ahead of you, which is, you know, a
fantastic thing and a real blessing for us if you're
in that position. But at the same time, you know,
for me, looking back on my time, it's go I
think I recall that feeling a lot less kind of
empowering or exciting and feeling a lot more sort of
daunting and frightening. And again it's worth reflecting on the
(12:46):
fact that you know, for young people today, if they're
told that, or if they're in that position, they are
incredibly fortunate as I was, to have the privilege of
opportunity ahead of them, because there's a lot of people
around the world, and there's a lot of people even
within you know, within our society and communities who don't
necessarily have that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
But at the same time, I think it creates.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
A level of anxiety for our young people because it's
a daunting prospect and there is a focus and an
increasing focus on our young people doing that earlier and earlier,
which I don't think is quite helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And the final s is stand alongside. And the basic
message here is you don't need to climb that mountain alone.
You know, ask for help, accept help.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and I think that that's relatively intuitive,
and actually I should say as well, I hope that
you know, for you and for your listeners, most of
these four s's are kind of relatively intuitive. I think
that you know, as I present to communities or businesses
and organizations around this often, you know, when I present
(13:48):
around this, I talk to the audience afterwards, and people say,
you know, this really rung a bell for me, that's
really resonated with me. These are things which I've utilized.
These are things which I've used in my life. My
response to which is great because it probably means that
you're a relatively resilient, well adjusted adult, and that you've
gone through challenge and adversity over the course of your lifetime.
You've naturally come towards these skills or strategies. You've gravitated
(14:15):
towards these because they work, You've learned them, you've retained them,
and you've continued to use them. But there's two things
to note about that, I guess. One, for our adults,
it's important, I think sometimes to be able to put
names or concepts to some of these, or I guess
words to some of these concepts or even put some
further information and research and evidence behind things which people
(14:36):
intubitively or naturally do. I've chatted to a few people
who've read the book who've said, you know, it's quite
empowering to understand why these things which I've learned lent
on over the course of my lifetime work for me,
and kind of what I can do to expand and
grow upon those. But two, I think it's important to
note as well that you know, these are not things which,
as young people we are born with.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
They're not sort of in built.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
We don't come out of the womb with these skills
or strategies already within us. So if they sound familiar
to you, it's because, as I say, you've learned them
through block and sweet and tears. You've earned them before
our young people we have the capacity, we have the
opportunity to, I guess, prepare them better now before they
go out into the world for the challenge and challenges
that they will face. We know that these things work,
(15:20):
we know that they're teachable, tainable, trainable, and entertainable. There's
things which we can which we can equip our young
people with now, hopefully at a stage of life where
the adversity and challenge that they're facing is not too significant,
but certainly before they get out into the into the
big wide world and things start coming at you pretty
fast as they as they kind of tend to for
(15:41):
all of us in life, because you know, adversity is
it's kind of one of those inevitabilities of the world
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You know, they see death and taxes. Yeah, death and
deaferent taxes.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They sort of both fall under that adversity kind of
kind of bracket.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You'd think, Hey, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Look Jake, before you go, I've just got to ask,
did I just see a picture of you in Antarctica
wearing shorts?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You might have seen that actually as well, which which
if you did, it probably means that the health and
safety manager is going to be on the phone for
me very shortly, because I'm not sure. I'm not kind
of sure whether that was in the briefing or not.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I've just been really fortunate to spend some time down
in Antarctica with an incredible organization called the Antarctic Heritage Trusts,
who manage and preserve and conserve all of the history
down there, all of their hearts and the artifacts from
the heroic age of exploration down there, and it's really, yeah,
very incredibly privileged and fortunate to have the opportunity to
spend some time down there with their work and to
(16:39):
I guess learn a little bit more about some of
the resilience of those incredible early polar explorers as well,
which you know, the Shackletons, the Scots. The stories sort
of will be incredibly familiar to many of your listeners,
I'm sure, and it was a great opportunity to learn
a little bit more about I guess what allowed them
to get through.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And another one of our listeners would like to know
how old you are? They like, who was this incredibly articulate,
incredibly articulate young man.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
How long I am? That's very kind. I'm twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
But I've spent a lot of time talking over the
past few years, so if I hadn't have picked up
a few tips and tricks by now, you'd probably think
I was a relatively slow learner. I've had a bit
of practice talking about this stuff, to be fair, and
fifteen year olds can throw some pretty LEFTI field questions
your way, so you get relatively quick at thinking on
your feet when you work with schools, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Look, Jake, it's been a real pleasy to talk to you.
I got an awful lot out of this book. But
I think if you've got a young adult at home,
then I highly recommend a copy of this book. The
Comeback Code is in stores this week.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks. Edb Right, I.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Am sure that this is one of the news stories
that we all remember. Back in twenty fifteen, christ Each
Boys high head boy Jake Bailey gave an inspirational end
of year speech from a wheelchair, just weeks before he
had been diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. Jake's
journeys through cancer treatment left him with many questions around
how we face and overcome adversity Once in remission, he
(00:34):
studied positive psychology to try and get the answers his
vision to give the next generation the ability to overcome
life's ups and downs. The result is a book called
The Comeback Code, and Jake Bailey joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Now, good morning one of Francesca. How's the going really good?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh Stokes, to be here. Thank you very much for
the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Wondering if you can put into words what it has
been like, what it is like to be told that
you have two weeks to live.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, it's a funny one.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
That's a question with Joe didn't get actually, particularly when
I work with young people and students. I think that,
you know, for them, they probably heard a little bit
of my story and maybe find themselves trying to picture
what that could or would be like. And as I
often tell them, it's a great question with a really
really boring answer, unfortunately, which is that it feels like
(01:25):
not a huge amount. It kind of wasn't necessarily any
of the things which you would expect to feel. I
wasn't angry or upset or scared or afraid or maybe
any of those things which had instinctively expect it to
be like. It felt like not a huge amount. And
maybe if there was anything, there was probably a little
bit of a sense of just wanting to crack it
(01:46):
and get started. I knew that, you know, the only
way to get through was going to be going through
the treatment, going through the chemotherapy, and coming out the
other side, and so there was maybe a little bit
of a sense of wanting to get on with it.
But yeah, it doesn't, in my case at least kind
of feel like a huge amount.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Interesting. I mean, you don't do things by halves, do you.
I mean, it was quite a diagnosse as, as you
say in the book, you were the usane bolt of dying.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
That's yeah, a bold claim to make with particularly without
broader context around it, I suppose, but it's yeah, it was.
It was a very aggressive, very very aggressive and fast
growing form of cancer. And you know, I'm incredibly fortunate
and privileged in many ways, but I guess first of
all to have had access to treatment, secondly to have
(02:32):
had the opportunity to be treated by and kid for
by an incredible medical team here in christ Church, and
then third to have been really fortunate and really privileged
to have I guess, survived it and been able to
come out the other side and make it out and
continue to move on in life.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So how has having cancer changed you?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Look, I mean, there's probably so many ways that it
would be easier to list the things which it hasn't
changed as much as that is a cliche, but I
think probably at its core, I guess the resilience was
the main thing that I took away from the cancer.
I think, particularly as a young person, you know, going
into the cancer, being eighteen, where in the weeks and
(03:11):
months prior to the diagnosis, I've been worried and worrying
about these very average, regular kind of teenage things like
you know, bad exam results, were not making sports teams
i'd tried for, or having fall outs with mates, or
being self conscious, as I think we all are when
we're that age, and then to come through the cancer,
to come out the other side three months later, and
(03:33):
to have I guess some skills or tools or strategies
around resilience which I've learned from going through the cancer,
which had fundamentally changed how I felt about life. I mean,
I came out and I was no longer kind of
weighed down or bogged down by a lot of these
things which previously had been quite a burden or it
had caused me a lot of I guess anxiety and
(03:55):
worry as a young person. And yeah, I think, at
its core, I mean, that's probably been the biggest change
that's allowed me to be a i'd like to say,
a happier, optimistic, more grateful person after the cancer than
I was beforehand. And I think, at it's core, you know,
the basis for that in any of those things, that optimism,
that that happiness, all of those positive things comes from
(04:17):
having learned to be more resilient. And I guess that's
where my passion for resilience comes from.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Let's talk about this passion. We can we better equip
people to deal with challenge and challenges life throws at them.
Can we can we train ourselves to be more resilient?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Absolutely, unequivocally yes.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
And you know that's that's not my opinion, that's the research,
that's the evidence.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
That is what we can see. And I think, you.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Know, there's something quite empowering about the knowledge of that
as well. I think knowing that we can get better
and be better at getting through tough times allows us
to feel a little bit less, you know, untethered during
those tough times in adversity. The knowledge that we can
learn to be better at getting through this challenge makes
us feel as though we have some sort of control
(05:02):
and direction over what we go through and I guess
how we deal with it.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I think that there's.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Something quite empowering about that understanding in itself that a
big part of learning to be more resilient, a big
part of learning to be better at getting through tough times,
is actually going through those tough times. And I think
that that knowledge allows you to meet adversity and challenge
with the attitude of it being I guess a training
ground or looking to take something away from it, looking
(05:27):
to come out the other side more resilient and improved
by it. And I think that's kind of, I guess,
empowering in itself.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, let's talk about the four S model. I really
like this model. The first S is slow down, and
this is possibly one of my favorites because I think
you can actually put it into play in day to
day life. It's the idea of breaking big things down
into small, manageable chunks.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Absolutely, And I think that, you know, it's something which
is relevant and applicable to I guess, resilience into getting
through adversity. And I should stress as well that all
of this is evidence and research based and it's not
me sort of hypothesizing or proplytizing on things which I
think are great or cooler, things which have worked for
me or helped me get through challenges in life. You know,
these are things which we know for a fact make
(06:13):
people better at getting through tough times, make people more resilient.
So when it comes to slowing down, yeah, the idea
of breaking things up into more manageable, bite sized pieces.
This is not something which we just apply to challenge
and adversity in life. You know, this is how we
get through anything, So how we get through a task,
This is how we, I guess, break down goals and
work towards things that we want to achieve. This is
(06:36):
kind of you know, if you go to the gym.
You know, I don't, but I'm reliably informed that you
break your work down into sort of sets and reps,
right like I've been told by people. You know, I
do a bit of running, you know, and I know
that for me, when I go for a run, I'm
mentally breaking it down into you know, kilometers at a
time or blocks of five k's at a time, whatever
it may be, because it makes it a whole lot
easier than trying to approach it as one big, single
(06:58):
lump sum.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And you know, I can pull out a million.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Different examples of that from you know, cooking and recipes
to so on and so forth, but it's core. I
think it's something which is irrelevant and applicable to going
through tough times as well. You know, it works better
when you take it on whatever sized pieces you can manage,
whether that's a month at a time, a week at
a time, a day at a time, an hour at
a time. I know for all of your listeners, they
will have gone through challenge and adversity and suffering over
(07:23):
the course of their lifetime, and they would have found
themselves in moments where the sort I don't know how
I'm going to get through this this week, you know,
this day, that hour, this this whatever I have to
go through. And so the answer is generally you just
try and break it down into a smaller piece and
continually take those off one after another.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The second is is salvage. And I know that this
is one of your favorites, that something positive can come
out of adversity. How important do you think a sense
of humor is when dealing with advantage?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
I think a sense of humor is pivotal, really, and
again the research and evidence seems to suggest it this.
You know, there's some really fascinating research and evidence which
which shows that young people who come from families that
utilize humor as a coping mechanism or a coping strategy
during adversity, during tough times, go on to create young
people who are I guess, far more resilient and robust
(08:15):
and well adjusted later on in life. You know, if
you can learn that during tough times, things don't have
to be completely binary that things are not. You know,
if something is bad, it doesn't mean it has to
be all bad. If you can get into this mindset
that there can be you know, silver lightings or good
within the darkness or you know, sorry, light within the
darkness or good within the bad, then I think you
(08:37):
put you in a position where you're better able to
approach adversity not so much as an enemy or a challenge,
but instead to be able to deliberately seek out some
of these positive things. And you know, on that note
of humor again, this is sort of what humor is
at its core when it comes to getting through adversity.
If you can find something to laugh at during a
tough time, that really is the you know, the ultimate
(08:58):
and salvaging. If you can take some livity, if you
can take some lightness, if you can take some humor
away from a tough time, then the research shows that
that it really helps people gets through. And you know,
it's very easy to talk about you know, research and
evidence and so on and so forth, but I think
you know, if people, if your listeners, if you know
someone who worked particularly and I like giving the example
of nursing because I've spent a bit of time with nurses,
(09:20):
and when you do it, you come to find that
they have exceptionally dark, but incredibly well refined, fantastic senses
of humor, and they do that because it allows them
to get through. It's you know, they find themselves in
a lot of situations whether it's either a laugh or
cry moment, and you know, when your options are those two,
there's nothing wrong with the former, but I think kind
of ninety percent of the time you feel you feel
(09:43):
better with the latter. And that applies to I think
anyone in a high pressure, high stakes profession, whether it's
police or fieries or even teachers. I think a lot
of the time these people who operating these stressful environs
naturally gravitate towards utilizing humor because it works.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Your third is is streamline, and that is the idea
of sort of minimizing and containing the everyday anxieties and.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Fears we have.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And look, I know that this book is written for everybody,
young or old, but I'm gonna be honest with you
with as a mother who's just sent one kid off
to university and a whole lot of friends who are
in that sort of same process and things, and we're
watching the way our young adults are adapting to this
new sort of stage in life. I really did. I
read this book feeling like it sort of kin'd dropped
out of the sky into my lap at the perfect moment.
(10:29):
It feels to me like resource, which is very much
going to resonate with younger people. I think it's about
the way. It's the way you talk in the book,
and about the contributors that you talk to. But there's
a lot of talk about life at school, the pressures
on teenagers to plan out their lives, to fit in,
to find your thing, But not every teenager knows that
(10:53):
are we focusing on the wrong things when it comes
to growing happy, resilient, grounded young adults.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It's funny, you know, it's a great question. Are we
focusing on the wrong things? And in some ways potent
in other ways? I guess maybe not.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Which is really roundabout kind of answer.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
But to sort of expand upon that, I think, yeah,
the way that young people are increasingly encouraged to begin
to hyper specialize in fields of studying education earlier and
earlier is creating an expectation for young people that they
ought to have their life planned out by the time
that they're about thirteen or fourteen years old. And I
think often when I present to parents and communities around this,
(11:35):
there's a sense that I might be kind of utilizing
hyperbole to make a point here, when I'm genuinely not.
You know, a lot of the time, our schools are
expecting students to have sort of a relatively clear idea
on what they want to do by the time they're
kind of thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years old, because the expectation
is you will begin to choose subjects based on what
you want to do during your senior important years of
(11:57):
high school. I suppose, based on what you want to
do when you leave school, based on what you want
to do for the rest of your life. And again,
if that sounds like hyperbole, probably is just a reflection
of how much the education system has changed than some
of your listeners than it was for when some of
your listeners went through that experience. And I think, as
I say in the book, you know I've been told,
(12:19):
as as we all have many times, that you know
the world is your oyster.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
When when when you're young and you've got so many options.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
And opportunities ahead of you, which is, you know, a
fantastic thing and a real blessing for us if you're
in that position. But at the same time, you know,
for me, looking back on my time, it's go I
think I recall that feeling a lot less kind of
empowering or exciting and feeling a lot more sort of
daunting and frightening. And again it's worth reflecting on the
(12:46):
fact that you know, for young people today, if they're
told that, or if they're in that position, they are
incredibly fortunate as I was, to have the privilege of
opportunity ahead of them, because there's a lot of people
around the world, and there's a lot of people even
within you know, within our society and communities who don't
necessarily have that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
But at the same time, I think it creates.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
A level of anxiety for our young people because it's
a daunting prospect and there is a focus and an
increasing focus on our young people doing that earlier and earlier,
which I don't think is quite helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And the final s is stand alongside. And the basic
message here is you don't need to climb that mountain alone.
You know, ask for help, accept help.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and I think that that's relatively intuitive,
and actually I should say as well, I hope that
you know, for you and for your listeners, most of
these four s's are kind of relatively intuitive. I think
that you know, as I present to communities or businesses
and organizations around this often, you know, when I present
(13:48):
around this, I talk to the audience afterwards, and people say,
you know, this really rung a bell for me, that's
really resonated with me. These are things which I've utilized.
These are things which I've used in my life. My
response to which is great because it probably means that
you're a relatively resilient, well adjusted adult, and that you've
gone through challenge and adversity over the course of your lifetime.
You've naturally come towards these skills or strategies. You've gravitated
(14:15):
towards these because they work, You've learned them, you've retained them,
and you've continued to use them. But there's two things
to note about that, I guess. One, for our adults,
it's important, I think sometimes to be able to put
names or concepts to some of these, or I guess
words to some of these concepts or even put some
further information and research and evidence behind things which people
(14:36):
intubitively or naturally do. I've chatted to a few people
who've read the book who've said, you know, it's quite
empowering to understand why these things which I've learned lent
on over the course of my lifetime work for me,
and kind of what I can do to expand and
grow upon those. But two, I think it's important to
note as well that you know, these are not things which,
as young people we are born with.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
They're not sort of in built.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
We don't come out of the womb with these skills
or strategies already within us. So if they sound familiar
to you, it's because, as I say, you've learned them
through block and sweet and tears. You've earned them before
our young people we have the capacity, we have the
opportunity to, I guess, prepare them better now before they
go out into the world for the challenge and challenges
that they will face. We know that these things work,
(15:20):
we know that they're teachable, tainable, trainable, and entertainable. There's
things which we can which we can equip our young
people with now, hopefully at a stage of life where
the adversity and challenge that they're facing is not too significant,
but certainly before they get out into the into the
big wide world and things start coming at you pretty
fast as they as they kind of tend to for
(15:41):
all of us in life, because you know, adversity is
it's kind of one of those inevitabilities of the world
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You know, they see death and taxes. Yeah, death and
deaferent taxes.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They sort of both fall under that adversity kind of
kind of bracket.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You'd think, Hey, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Look Jake, before you go, I've just got to ask,
did I just see a picture of you in Antarctica
wearing shorts?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You might have seen that actually as well, which which
if you did, it probably means that the health and
safety manager is going to be on the phone for
me very shortly, because I'm not sure. I'm not kind
of sure whether that was in the briefing or not.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I've just been really fortunate to spend some time down
in Antarctica with an incredible organization called the Antarctic Heritage Trusts,
who manage and preserve and conserve all of the history
down there, all of their hearts and the artifacts from
the heroic age of exploration down there, and it's really, yeah,
very incredibly privileged and fortunate to have the opportunity to
spend some time down there with their work and to
(16:39):
I guess learn a little bit more about some of
the resilience of those incredible early polar explorers as well,
which you know, the Shackletons, the Scots. The stories sort
of will be incredibly familiar to many of your listeners,
I'm sure, and it was a great opportunity to learn
a little bit more about I guess what allowed them
to get through.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And another one of our listeners would like to know
how old you are? They like, who was this incredibly articulate,
incredibly articulate young man.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
How long I am? That's very kind. I'm twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
But I've spent a lot of time talking over the
past few years, so if I hadn't have picked up
a few tips and tricks by now, you'd probably think
I was a relatively slow learner. I've had a bit
of practice talking about this stuff, to be fair, and
fifteen year olds can throw some pretty LEFTI field questions
your way, so you get relatively quick at thinking on
your feet when you work with schools, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Look, Jake, it's been a real pleasy to talk to you.
I got an awful lot out of this book. But
I think if you've got a young adult at home,
then I highly recommend a copy of this book. The
Comeback Code is in stores this week.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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