July 27, 2024 • 8 mins
The Government's first military-style youth boot camp gets underway tomorrow.
The 10 young offenders - aged between 15 to 17 - will stay at a Palmerston North youth justice facility for 3 months before undergoing a 9-month transition back to the community.
Children’s Minister Karen Chhour says multiple agencies have contributed to the project, as well as psychologists, counsellors and social workers.
"Young people must face consequences for the serious crimes they have committed - but what we also must do is not just leave them and not help them to turn their lives around."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The government's controversial boot camp pilot gets underway tomorrow. Ten
repeat young offenders, all fifteen to seventeen year old boys,
will take part in the twelfth month program at Orange
tamadiki's Palmerston North Justice Facility. To talk us through the
start of the pilot, Children's Minister Karen Shaw joins me. Now,
thanks for your time this morning. Karen, good morning, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How's it going good?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you? Tell me what will these young people experience
over the next year.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, So it's a twelve month program with a three
month in residence in nine months outside of residence. So
what that means is the first three months will be
within TIREBI which is Palmerston Northith Justice where there will
be structure, routine addressed their criminal behavior which is really
really important, but also have a rehabilitation in therapeutic component
(01:07):
wraps around them as required. We'll do a full review
on each child when they first each young person when
they first start the program to actually understand of what
their need does so we can customize the program to
that young person.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Karen who's designed the pilot.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's had multiple agencies across the table along with EWI
within the area and also people with the skills needed
clinical psychologists, social workers, and people with counseling backgrounds also
so that we get this right. Young people must face
(01:49):
consequences for the serious crimes that they have committed, but
what we also must do is not just leave them
and not help them to turn their lives around and
give them a chance to a better future.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So how will the program make these young offenders accountable?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There will be lots of work with them for them
to understand why they committed that behavior in the first place,
taking ownership of that behavior, and some of that may
also mean working with the victims, if appropriate, so that
they can actually understand the harm that they're causing in
our communities. Because this is all about lowering the harm
(02:29):
in our communities, we need to think about the victims
as well in all of this, because these young people
have committed some pretty serious crimes. They have to have
been had to have committed at least two serious crimes
with a sentence of ten years or more proven in court.
So this is not people at the very beginning that
(02:51):
are just shoplifting that we can try and view with
that end. This is the other end where actually we
need to be doing better.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Have you had any communication with the young people that
will be attending all their families. Is there a willingness
to this concept to be part of it?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So this pilot program has to have buy in. Under
the current law, we can't make these young people do
this program. When we introduced the Younger Serious Afender category,
it will be a sentencing option for judges. At the moment,
these ten young people have been talked through what this
(03:30):
program can do for them and their families. They have
been through an FGC process where the families would have
been put around the table as well, and they would
have agreed to a plan at a family group conference
and it would have been included in their sentencing plan.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So everyone's kind of got to be on board, the
defender and their family.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
For the pilot program. Yes, and that's what's special about this.
I've spoken to some of the young people just very
quickly on the day of the launch, and they're really
excited at the fact that actually we're going to make
sure that they have support and their family have support. Also,
(04:11):
because a lot of these young people really do care
what their family think about them, and they just want
to make their family proud. So hopefully we can help
that happen.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Karen, there has been some concern raised around the effectiveness
of the style. That is quite a controversial policy for
some people. Has this been created, you know, with evidence
you know has says you know, Eviden has been used
to come up with a plan here that you know
is going to work.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We've looked at programs that we've run in the past.
We've looked over these at programs that have been wrong.
But what I would also like to say is what
I inherited when I came in as Children's Minister just
was not acceptable. But these young people were sitting in
these youth justice facilities with no hope for the future.
If I can add some hope for the future and
(05:01):
rehabilitation for these young people which was much more than
what they were getting, and what they were getting was
not working. And the evidence to that is the crime
out in our communities right now. So if we can
give something a go, that will make a real difference
in these young people's lives and in our communities and
lessen the harm in our communities then are more for it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So your confident these camps will make a difference.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I'm confident that we're doing everything we possibly can to
make a difference in these young people's lives. But let's
not be let's not ignore the fact that it may
not work for every young person. They have to put
in the effort to But what I can say is
we're putting in the biggest effort that this organization has
(05:50):
in this space, and I'm really looking forward to seeing
the results.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Karen, the timing isn't great for the to be kicking
off this new pilot less than a week after the
release of the Abusive Care Report, And of course you
know that report talks about the abuse in boot camps
which happened in the nineteen nineties. What is in place
to make sure that's not going to happen here?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, First of all, I'd just like to acknowledge what
those young people suffered on Great Barrier Islands to fuck
up a cardio program and what they went through there.
These people should never have been allowed near young people.
There was no training with the staff that we're meant
(06:40):
to be taking care of those young people. It was
an isolated Island. It was a perfect storm for perpetrators
and it should never have happened. What I can say
is that we have put in place of program where
young people will have access to help if anything is
untoward happening, and my expectation is that it will be
(07:02):
dealt with quickly and those young people will be believed,
and those young people will not be treated the way
that those young people on Grant Barrier Island were. That
was unacceptable and absolutely gut wrenching to read about. But
this is not what we're doing here.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Karen just very quickly for a listener who's asked, where
do the boys go after the first three months once
they've been in the camp.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So the biggest focus that we have is in the
nine months of transition back into the community, making sure
that that's done safely and done well, whether that's supporting
the family with the young person coming back home, or
supporting the young person into employment or into a home.
They'll also have a one on one mentor that will
(07:49):
follow them through the whole process who will help them
navigate what they need as they go along. It's an
intensive case management for each young person when they go
back out into the community. To make sure that they
have the supports when things do get tough, they have
somebody that's backing them and help them.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And finally, Karen, how do we measure the success of
this pilot?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Think what we need to do also is in the
past we haven't collected the right data to understand what
has happened once these young people have left these military
style camps or academies like the MAC program, and we
need to actually understand where the failings are. So we
will be following these young people quite closely seeing how
(08:34):
they transition back into the community and Pivot has leaded
so that when we do continue this program in the future,
we can learn as we go along.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh, Karen, thank you so much for your time this morning. Appreciated.
That was Children's Minister Karen Chroy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The government's controversial boot camp pilot gets underway tomorrow. Ten
repeat young offenders, all fifteen to seventeen year old boys,
will take part in the twelfth month program at Orange
tamadiki's Palmerston North Justice Facility. To talk us through the
start of the pilot, Children's Minister Karen Shaw joins me. Now,
thanks for your time this morning. Karen, good morning, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How's it going good?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you? Tell me what will these young people experience
over the next year.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, So it's a twelve month program with a three
month in residence in nine months outside of residence. So
what that means is the first three months will be
within TIREBI which is Palmerston Northith Justice where there will
be structure, routine addressed their criminal behavior which is really
really important, but also have a rehabilitation in therapeutic component
(01:07):
wraps around them as required. We'll do a full review
on each child when they first each young person when
they first start the program to actually understand of what
their need does so we can customize the program to
that young person.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Karen who's designed the pilot.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's had multiple agencies across the table along with EWI
within the area and also people with the skills needed
clinical psychologists, social workers, and people with counseling backgrounds also
so that we get this right. Young people must face
(01:49):
consequences for the serious crimes that they have committed, but
what we also must do is not just leave them
and not help them to turn their lives around and
give them a chance to a better future.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So how will the program make these young offenders accountable?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There will be lots of work with them for them
to understand why they committed that behavior in the first place,
taking ownership of that behavior, and some of that may
also mean working with the victims, if appropriate, so that
they can actually understand the harm that they're causing in
our communities. Because this is all about lowering the harm
(02:29):
in our communities, we need to think about the victims
as well in all of this, because these young people
have committed some pretty serious crimes. They have to have
been had to have committed at least two serious crimes
with a sentence of ten years or more proven in court.
So this is not people at the very beginning that
(02:51):
are just shoplifting that we can try and view with
that end. This is the other end where actually we
need to be doing better.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Have you had any communication with the young people that
will be attending all their families. Is there a willingness
to this concept to be part of it?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So this pilot program has to have buy in. Under
the current law, we can't make these young people do
this program. When we introduced the Younger Serious Afender category,
it will be a sentencing option for judges. At the moment,
these ten young people have been talked through what this
(03:30):
program can do for them and their families. They have
been through an FGC process where the families would have
been put around the table as well, and they would
have agreed to a plan at a family group conference
and it would have been included in their sentencing plan.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So everyone's kind of got to be on board, the
defender and their family.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
For the pilot program. Yes, and that's what's special about this.
I've spoken to some of the young people just very
quickly on the day of the launch, and they're really
excited at the fact that actually we're going to make
sure that they have support and their family have support. Also,
(04:11):
because a lot of these young people really do care
what their family think about them, and they just want
to make their family proud. So hopefully we can help
that happen.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Karen, there has been some concern raised around the effectiveness
of the style. That is quite a controversial policy for
some people. Has this been created, you know, with evidence
you know has says you know, Eviden has been used
to come up with a plan here that you know
is going to work.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We've looked at programs that we've run in the past.
We've looked over these at programs that have been wrong.
But what I would also like to say is what
I inherited when I came in as Children's Minister just
was not acceptable. But these young people were sitting in
these youth justice facilities with no hope for the future.
If I can add some hope for the future and
(05:01):
rehabilitation for these young people which was much more than
what they were getting, and what they were getting was
not working. And the evidence to that is the crime
out in our communities right now. So if we can
give something a go, that will make a real difference
in these young people's lives and in our communities and
lessen the harm in our communities then are more for it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So your confident these camps will make a difference.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I'm confident that we're doing everything we possibly can to
make a difference in these young people's lives. But let's
not be let's not ignore the fact that it may
not work for every young person. They have to put
in the effort to But what I can say is
we're putting in the biggest effort that this organization has
(05:50):
in this space, and I'm really looking forward to seeing
the results.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Karen, the timing isn't great for the to be kicking
off this new pilot less than a week after the
release of the Abusive Care Report, And of course you
know that report talks about the abuse in boot camps
which happened in the nineteen nineties. What is in place
to make sure that's not going to happen here?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, First of all, I'd just like to acknowledge what
those young people suffered on Great Barrier Islands to fuck
up a cardio program and what they went through there.
These people should never have been allowed near young people.
There was no training with the staff that we're meant
(06:40):
to be taking care of those young people. It was
an isolated Island. It was a perfect storm for perpetrators
and it should never have happened. What I can say
is that we have put in place of program where
young people will have access to help if anything is
untoward happening, and my expectation is that it will be
(07:02):
dealt with quickly and those young people will be believed,
and those young people will not be treated the way
that those young people on Grant Barrier Island were. That
was unacceptable and absolutely gut wrenching to read about. But
this is not what we're doing here.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Karen just very quickly for a listener who's asked, where
do the boys go after the first three months once
they've been in the camp.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So the biggest focus that we have is in the
nine months of transition back into the community, making sure
that that's done safely and done well, whether that's supporting
the family with the young person coming back home, or
supporting the young person into employment or into a home.
They'll also have a one on one mentor that will
(07:49):
follow them through the whole process who will help them
navigate what they need as they go along. It's an
intensive case management for each young person when they go
back out into the community. To make sure that they
have the supports when things do get tough, they have
somebody that's backing them and help them.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And finally, Karen, how do we measure the success of
this pilot?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Think what we need to do also is in the
past we haven't collected the right data to understand what
has happened once these young people have left these military
style camps or academies like the MAC program, and we
need to actually understand where the failings are. So we
will be following these young people quite closely seeing how
(08:34):
they transition back into the community and Pivot has leaded
so that when we do continue this program in the future,
we can learn as we go along.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh, Karen, thank you so much for your time this morning. Appreciated.
That was Children's Minister Karen Chroy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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