For decades, the Kennedys were held in high regard, with the family name being synonymous with wealth, power and integrity.
However, author Maureen Callahan has exposed the hidden dark side between one of America's most powerful families in her new book Ask Not: The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed.
The book unveiled stories of sexual assault, abuse, exploitation and scandal - all carried out by an iconic American family.
Callahan says the women who married into the family were subjected to a 'brutal' experience.
"I wrote Ask Not like a novel because I wanted the readers to be in their head and their hearts as they go through these relationships and experiences."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For decades, the Kennedys have been a family of influence
in America, a name aligned with wealth, power and intiquity.
But behind this constructed public facade is a much darker story.
In an eye opening new book, American journalist Maureen Callahan
has looked at the legacy of the Kennedy men, a
story of ruined lives, scandal, misogyny, exploitation, and abuse towards
(00:34):
the women in their lives. Maureen's new book was called
Ask Not The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed. Maureen
Callahan joins me, now, thank you so much for your time, Loureen,
thank you so much for invading me.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Frand Asca, I'm so happy to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You speak about how the Kennedys have been able to
assert their influence in order to control their own narrative,
to control their own story, and over the decades they
have definitely tried to quieten those who offer a perspective.
So my first question to you is did anyone try
to influence you or stop this book?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, not in the way you might think I actually
had trouble with my publisher. My previous book had done
very very well for them. It actually still does very
well for them, and they said to me, whatever you
want to do next, we're going to publish it. I said, great,
here's what I'm going to do next, and they vanished.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
They went quiet.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
We later found out they were cutting a backroom deal
with kennedy cousin Maria Shriver, to give her her own imprint.
Flash forward to now, and I've been told that major
American news networks, outlets, what have.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
You, will not be touching this book.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
They don't want to upset the Kennedys, or they employ Kennedy's,
or they don't want to have a hand in what
they would see as ratifying a book like this that
is actually telling the truth about these women and what
was done to them. But nonetheless, the book has really thrived,
and I think that is a testament to the stories
(02:23):
of these women and their power and the resonance they're having.
I'm hearing from readers all the time and it's just
having a life, which is great.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Were people open to talking to you about the Kennedy
women and men for that matter. Was there a bit
of a sense amongst people who know them or knew
them that actually, now is the time to tell these stories.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, for the most part, Yes, Carolyn Bessett's friends, who
had long had like this cone of silence, decided now
was time to talk.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Mary Jo Kopecne's family spoke with me. Martha Maxley's Mary
Richard sin who committed suicide. She was married to Robert F.
Kennedy Junior. Her lawyer spoke to me, her psychotherapist spoke
to me. A very good friend spoke to me, and
they all said they felt it was very important that
(03:24):
the American people know who they were dealing with when
it came to RFK Junior.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And look, I'll touch on that now because I and
the last story I heard Maureen was some crazy story
about finding a bear cub on the side of the road,
bringing it to New York, putting it in Central Park
under a bicycle. And I was sort of listening to this, going, oh,
my goodness, this is just crazy, and I was thinking
to myself, how far have the Kennedy's fallen?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
How far? Indeed? But this is the thing, Francesca.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
People have been rightly very upset and disturbed by RFK
Junior's treatment of wild animals, which is I think quite sick.
But when it comes to the wife who he gas lit, tormented,
drove to suicide, in my opinion, buried with great fanfare
(04:17):
up in the Kennedy family plot, and then one week later,
secretly and without the proper permitting, had her coffin disinterred
in the middle of the night and had her coffin
reburied seven hundred feet away on the side.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Of a hill. Alone.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
He still is unbothered by questions about what he did
to his ex wife and what it is he really
thinks of women.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Since we're talking about Mary Richardson Kennedy, it's a good time,
I think, to ask the question what does it mean
to be a Kennedy wife and what is expected of them?
And I suppose what happens to them if they can't fulfill?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh, it's such a great question, Francesca, and it's frankly,
it's brutal. I wrote ask not like a novel, because
these women I wanted the readers to be in their
heads and their hearts as they go through these relationships
and experiences. One of my favorite examples of this and
(05:18):
is the most One of the more recent ones is
Carolyn Bissett, who when she married JFK. Junior, the entire
world coronated her as America's next princess. She had won
the prize, she had landed the white whale of bachelors,
and she gets behind the curtain and it's a freaking misery.
(05:42):
Not only is he lazy, not bright, entitled, never coming
home when he says he's coming home, but this guy
has a death wish that I can't think of anybody
else who comes to mind. Who is that prominent who
nearly not only lost his life multiple times, but had
a habit of bullying the women in his life to
(06:04):
come along with him on these reckless adventures. Just a
little tidbit for your audience, and a hint of just
the level of detail that is in us. Not on
the night JFK Junior crash that flight, that plane, killing him,
his wife and her sister, he almost crashed into a
(06:26):
packed American Airlines commercial jetliner making its descent to JFK
International Airport in New York.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know you have to ask yourself the question. It
was a misery for so many of them, So why
did they stay.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, it's like golden handcuffs, you know, the jobs
that people You get a nice paycheck and you're miserable,
but you can't break free of it. These women find
themselves living in an alternate reality. And Jackie would often
say this, like she would look at the coverage of
herself in tabloids and say, like, let's see what she's
(07:06):
at to.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Today, because that wasn't her.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But there's something that is conferred upon you when you
marry an alpha Kennedy. You must be the most beautiful,
the smartest, the most charismatic. And often these women are
indeed that. But what the Kennedy men and the Kennedy
machine like to do is strip the women of their power,
(07:32):
of their greatness. It seems to evoke a seething resentment
in them. You know, it is a lonely club, that
of the Kennedy wives.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
When it comes to how they treated the women, I
thought you came up with a really simple but very
good description of it. And you see that they're just
after thoughts. They just treated them like afterthoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
They really did, unless you need them for campaigning or
you know, like one of the great things I learned
about the Kennedy men, especially in the middle of the
last American century, was how much they relied on women's
mass media to domesticate themselves. For the female voter, It's like, so,
(08:20):
the wives are really important, they're key players.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
But when they begin.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
To assert their own needs and wants, or maybe even
their own independence, that's when they become inconvenient, and that's
when they have to be done away with.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
A lot of names that we will know in this
book and be very familiar with, but there are also
a few that might not be so familiar. Wondering if
you can tell us a little bit about Mimi and Diana.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Oh, my god, Mimi and Diana.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, Mimi was a nineteen year old virgin when she
started working in the secretarial pool of JFK's White House,
and at the end of her first day, she finds
herself invited up to the private residence where she served
a bunch of Dakrea's. The President of the United States
(09:11):
appears at her side, invites her for a tour, throws
her down on Jackie's bed. Jackie's away. Within three minutes,
he's taken her virginity. She still does not know how
to describe this I would describe it as rape. Three
days later, she's back in the White House and is
(09:32):
now invited to join the President for one of his
afternoon swims in the White House pool, at which point
JFK says to Mimi, you need to go relax, my
aid sitting at the lip of the pool, and Mimi
knows what this means, and to her great shame, she
goes and performs oral sex on this guy while JFK
silently watches. This stuff needs to be part of our
(09:57):
reconsideration of JFK's presidency and the family on the whole.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I strongly believe.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
You Ain she begin to wane to worrying when he
got any work done? In between the swims and the sex,
and the holidays and the sleeps and everything you got
left going? When did he do any work? The book
doesn't just give voice to the women in these men's lives,
but it speaks to the character of these Kennedy men,
and there have been so many myths and so many
sort of generalized perceptions about them. I think over the years,
(10:28):
did you discover anything new or reveal you know? Were
you surprised by what you sort of heard or discovered?
About the men.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, I was, I was.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I was.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I was surprised by JFK.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Junior's callousness and his what I really think was a
level of rage towards women.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I was.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I was surprised by the sadism, frankly exhibited by both
JFK and his brother Robert F.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
And that really is most visible in Marilyn Monroe chapters.
They treated her, They basically were out to destroy her.
They were both involved with her sexually. At the same
time in writing the chapters about Joan Kennedy and Mary
jo Kopecney, the Kennedy man who links them as Ted.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
And you know, while I was writing.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
This book, these doorstopper biographies were coming out in America
about Ted Kennedy with these hyperbolic titles like catching the Wind,
against the Wind, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
This is a man who left a.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Twenty nine year old woman to die in three feet
of water. She died a slow, agonizing, wholly preventable death.
She could have been saved. In the book, there is
also a very vivid scene of Ted violently sexually assaulting
a waitress at a very popular DC establishment in broad daylight.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
And we are lionizing this man to this day, Are
you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
What is the kind the legacy now? Has it changed
over time? Is the family still thought of as a
sort of a political power center in America?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
When I began writing this book, I did think so.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I think there's a very interesting confluence happening right now,
and I'm very humble and proud to be a part
of it. This book, which is opening up a lot
of eyes, and this sad, chambolic, depressing presidential campaign being
run by Robert F.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Kennedy Junior, who.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Is putting that it couldn't happen to a better legacy.
It's being eaten by its own tail, putting the nail
in the coffin of this supposed greatness. We are now
seeing fully this family getting it's just desserts.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I also just want to mention before we finish, Maureen,
you know, the one thing I really enjoyed about the
book is that you make the point there is no
perfect victim, Like you're not painting, you're not trying to
portray the women in anything more than who they really were,
and that's not necessarily always a victim will always positive.
And I appreciated that there was a great balance to
the book.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Thanks Francesca.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I mean, I'll say it was really helped by weirdly,
or maybe not. When Harvey Weinstein was convicted of rape
in New York. That was a really bracing moment because
he was found guilty by a jury that was composed
of more men than women, by a jury that heard
very complicated testimony from women who were alleging brutal rape,
(13:44):
and then admitting that afterward they had maintained friendly relationships
with Harvey. And I thought, oh my God, like the culture,
we have grown up, we are mature, we are ready
for these stories of these women. And they get to
be complicated and messy and sometimes unlikable. They get to
be greedy and to want fame and money, but that
(14:05):
doesn't mean that they do deserved any of what happened
to them.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I love it. Thank you so much for your time. Moreen,
lovely to meet you, and thank you very much for
the book.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Thank you, France Aska, Lovely to meet Elle.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And that was journalist Maureen Callaghan. Her book Ask Not
the Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed is in stores now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
For more from The Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For decades, the Kennedys have been a family of influence
in America, a name aligned with wealth, power and intiquity.
But behind this constructed public facade is a much darker story.
In an eye opening new book, American journalist Maureen Callahan
has looked at the legacy of the Kennedy men, a
story of ruined lives, scandal, misogyny, exploitation, and abuse towards
(00:34):
the women in their lives. Maureen's new book was called
Ask Not The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed. Maureen
Callahan joins me, now, thank you so much for your time, Loureen,
thank you so much for invading me.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Frand Asca, I'm so happy to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You speak about how the Kennedys have been able to
assert their influence in order to control their own narrative,
to control their own story, and over the decades they
have definitely tried to quieten those who offer a perspective.
So my first question to you is did anyone try
to influence you or stop this book?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, not in the way you might think I actually
had trouble with my publisher. My previous book had done
very very well for them. It actually still does very
well for them, and they said to me, whatever you
want to do next, we're going to publish it. I said, great,
here's what I'm going to do next, and they vanished.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
They went quiet.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
We later found out they were cutting a backroom deal
with kennedy cousin Maria Shriver, to give her her own imprint.
Flash forward to now, and I've been told that major
American news networks, outlets, what have.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
You, will not be touching this book.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
They don't want to upset the Kennedys, or they employ Kennedy's,
or they don't want to have a hand in what
they would see as ratifying a book like this that
is actually telling the truth about these women and what
was done to them. But nonetheless, the book has really thrived,
and I think that is a testament to the stories
(02:23):
of these women and their power and the resonance they're having.
I'm hearing from readers all the time and it's just
having a life, which is great.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Were people open to talking to you about the Kennedy
women and men for that matter. Was there a bit
of a sense amongst people who know them or knew
them that actually, now is the time to tell these stories.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, for the most part, Yes, Carolyn Bessett's friends, who
had long had like this cone of silence, decided now
was time to talk.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Mary Jo Kopecne's family spoke with me. Martha Maxley's Mary
Richard sin who committed suicide. She was married to Robert F.
Kennedy Junior. Her lawyer spoke to me, her psychotherapist spoke
to me. A very good friend spoke to me, and
they all said they felt it was very important that
(03:24):
the American people know who they were dealing with when
it came to RFK Junior.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And look, I'll touch on that now because I and
the last story I heard Maureen was some crazy story
about finding a bear cub on the side of the road,
bringing it to New York, putting it in Central Park
under a bicycle. And I was sort of listening to this, going, oh,
my goodness, this is just crazy, and I was thinking
to myself, how far have the Kennedy's fallen?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
How far? Indeed? But this is the thing, Francesca.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
People have been rightly very upset and disturbed by RFK
Junior's treatment of wild animals, which is I think quite sick.
But when it comes to the wife who he gas lit, tormented,
drove to suicide, in my opinion, buried with great fanfare
(04:17):
up in the Kennedy family plot, and then one week later,
secretly and without the proper permitting, had her coffin disinterred
in the middle of the night and had her coffin
reburied seven hundred feet away on the side.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Of a hill. Alone.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
He still is unbothered by questions about what he did
to his ex wife and what it is he really
thinks of women.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Since we're talking about Mary Richardson Kennedy, it's a good time,
I think, to ask the question what does it mean
to be a Kennedy wife and what is expected of them?
And I suppose what happens to them if they can't fulfill?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh, it's such a great question, Francesca, and it's frankly,
it's brutal. I wrote ask not like a novel, because
these women I wanted the readers to be in their
heads and their hearts as they go through these relationships
and experiences. One of my favorite examples of this and
(05:18):
is the most One of the more recent ones is
Carolyn Bissett, who when she married JFK. Junior, the entire
world coronated her as America's next princess. She had won
the prize, she had landed the white whale of bachelors,
and she gets behind the curtain and it's a freaking misery.
(05:42):
Not only is he lazy, not bright, entitled, never coming
home when he says he's coming home, but this guy
has a death wish that I can't think of anybody
else who comes to mind. Who is that prominent who
nearly not only lost his life multiple times, but had
a habit of bullying the women in his life to
(06:04):
come along with him on these reckless adventures. Just a
little tidbit for your audience, and a hint of just
the level of detail that is in us. Not on
the night JFK Junior crash that flight, that plane, killing him,
his wife and her sister, he almost crashed into a
(06:26):
packed American Airlines commercial jetliner making its descent to JFK
International Airport in New York.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know you have to ask yourself the question. It
was a misery for so many of them, So why
did they stay.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, it's like golden handcuffs, you know, the jobs
that people You get a nice paycheck and you're miserable,
but you can't break free of it. These women find
themselves living in an alternate reality. And Jackie would often
say this, like she would look at the coverage of
herself in tabloids and say, like, let's see what she's
(07:06):
at to.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Today, because that wasn't her.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But there's something that is conferred upon you when you
marry an alpha Kennedy. You must be the most beautiful,
the smartest, the most charismatic. And often these women are
indeed that. But what the Kennedy men and the Kennedy
machine like to do is strip the women of their power,
(07:32):
of their greatness. It seems to evoke a seething resentment
in them. You know, it is a lonely club, that
of the Kennedy wives.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
When it comes to how they treated the women, I
thought you came up with a really simple but very
good description of it. And you see that they're just
after thoughts. They just treated them like afterthoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
They really did, unless you need them for campaigning or
you know, like one of the great things I learned
about the Kennedy men, especially in the middle of the
last American century, was how much they relied on women's
mass media to domesticate themselves. For the female voter, It's like, so,
(08:20):
the wives are really important, they're key players.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
But when they begin.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
To assert their own needs and wants, or maybe even
their own independence, that's when they become inconvenient, and that's
when they have to be done away with.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
A lot of names that we will know in this
book and be very familiar with, but there are also
a few that might not be so familiar. Wondering if
you can tell us a little bit about Mimi and Diana.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Oh, my god, Mimi and Diana.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, Mimi was a nineteen year old virgin when she
started working in the secretarial pool of JFK's White House,
and at the end of her first day, she finds
herself invited up to the private residence where she served
a bunch of Dakrea's. The President of the United States
(09:11):
appears at her side, invites her for a tour, throws
her down on Jackie's bed. Jackie's away. Within three minutes,
he's taken her virginity. She still does not know how
to describe this I would describe it as rape. Three
days later, she's back in the White House and is
(09:32):
now invited to join the President for one of his
afternoon swims in the White House pool, at which point
JFK says to Mimi, you need to go relax, my
aid sitting at the lip of the pool, and Mimi
knows what this means, and to her great shame, she
goes and performs oral sex on this guy while JFK
silently watches. This stuff needs to be part of our
(09:57):
reconsideration of JFK's presidency and the family on the whole.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I strongly believe.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
You Ain she begin to wane to worrying when he
got any work done? In between the swims and the sex,
and the holidays and the sleeps and everything you got
left going? When did he do any work? The book
doesn't just give voice to the women in these men's lives,
but it speaks to the character of these Kennedy men,
and there have been so many myths and so many
sort of generalized perceptions about them. I think over the years,
(10:28):
did you discover anything new or reveal you know? Were
you surprised by what you sort of heard or discovered?
About the men.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, I was, I was.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I was.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I was surprised by JFK.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Junior's callousness and his what I really think was a
level of rage towards women.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I was.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I was surprised by the sadism, frankly exhibited by both
JFK and his brother Robert F.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
And that really is most visible in Marilyn Monroe chapters.
They treated her, They basically were out to destroy her.
They were both involved with her sexually. At the same
time in writing the chapters about Joan Kennedy and Mary
jo Kopecney, the Kennedy man who links them as Ted.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
And you know, while I was writing.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
This book, these doorstopper biographies were coming out in America
about Ted Kennedy with these hyperbolic titles like catching the Wind,
against the Wind, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
This is a man who left a.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Twenty nine year old woman to die in three feet
of water. She died a slow, agonizing, wholly preventable death.
She could have been saved. In the book, there is
also a very vivid scene of Ted violently sexually assaulting
a waitress at a very popular DC establishment in broad daylight.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
And we are lionizing this man to this day, Are
you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
What is the kind the legacy now? Has it changed
over time? Is the family still thought of as a
sort of a political power center in America?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
When I began writing this book, I did think so.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I think there's a very interesting confluence happening right now,
and I'm very humble and proud to be a part
of it. This book, which is opening up a lot
of eyes, and this sad, chambolic, depressing presidential campaign being
run by Robert F.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Kennedy Junior, who.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Is putting that it couldn't happen to a better legacy.
It's being eaten by its own tail, putting the nail
in the coffin of this supposed greatness. We are now
seeing fully this family getting it's just desserts.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I also just want to mention before we finish, Maureen,
you know, the one thing I really enjoyed about the
book is that you make the point there is no
perfect victim, Like you're not painting, you're not trying to
portray the women in anything more than who they really were,
and that's not necessarily always a victim will always positive.
And I appreciated that there was a great balance to
the book.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Thanks Francesca.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I mean, I'll say it was really helped by weirdly,
or maybe not. When Harvey Weinstein was convicted of rape
in New York. That was a really bracing moment because
he was found guilty by a jury that was composed
of more men than women, by a jury that heard
very complicated testimony from women who were alleging brutal rape,
(13:44):
and then admitting that afterward they had maintained friendly relationships
with Harvey. And I thought, oh my God, like the culture,
we have grown up, we are mature, we are ready
for these stories of these women. And they get to
be complicated and messy and sometimes unlikable. They get to
be greedy and to want fame and money, but that
(14:05):
doesn't mean that they do deserved any of what happened
to them.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I love it. Thank you so much for your time. Moreen,
lovely to meet you, and thank you very much for
the book.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Thank you, France Aska, Lovely to meet Elle.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And that was journalist Maureen Callaghan. Her book Ask Not
the Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed is in stores now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
For more from The Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!