June 28, 2025 • 15 mins
After making an impression on millions around the world - and making an appearance in Wellington in 2024, 'The Art of Banksy' exhibit is set to hit Auckland.
Banksy is one of the world's most famous artists with a significant global following, but his identity remains unknown - despite exhibitions of his work selling out and attracting interest.
Banksy didn't personally curate this exhibit, but producer and curator Michel Boersma says he's had dealings with the artists.
"People have a view of Banksy as this sort of Robin Hood figure in general - we've done this in 90 cities around the world and in general, you get this whole Robin Hood kind of thing. We are dealing with collectors and collectors who buy art, often direct from Banksy - art that he's created to sell for his own lifestyle."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News TALKSTB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He's one of the world's most famous artists. He has
a huge global following, including list of celebrities, but his
identity remains unknown. Banks he first appeared in the early
nineties spray painting his stenciled designs on the streets of Bristol.
He's now an anonymous celebrity, with exhibitions of his work
selling out all over the world. The Art of Banksy
(00:33):
is the largest collection of original and authenticated Banksy's work
and it's head into Auckland. Producer and curator of the exhibit,
Michelle Bosma knows Banksy personally and he joins me now,
good morning, Michelle, Hi, good morning. You've dealt with Banksy
and your role is producing and curating this exhibition. From
(00:54):
the dealings you've had, What is he like? How much
can you tell us about this elusive figure?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So that's a like the work that he creates. He's
a multifested person. In general, he can be very grumpy.
That's also what you hear from the people that work
with him. He's passionate about his work, which sometimes is
difficult when you do an exhibition like this because banks
(01:26):
He himself can't do a best of exhibition, which is
what the art of banks He is. We've got one
hundred and sixty works, which is an overview of his
whole career, and he as an artist, can't do that.
It's not like the Rolling Stones until a dying day.
They can do the biggest hits. He needs to do
something new every single time. But there's a duality here
(01:46):
which he doesn't like. But what he does appreciate, I
believe is that we are completely authenticated. So he can
be grumpy. It depends on when you catch him.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Obviously a very talented answer, but he must also be
a pretty astute business to have created what he has.
Do you think.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
For me? That's the duality of that duality is very
interesting because people have this view of Banksy as a
sort of Robin Hood figure in general. If you talk
like we've done this in ninety cities around the world
and in general, you get this whole like Robin Hood
kind of thing. We are dealing with collectors and collectors
who buy art often direct from Banksy, art that he's
(02:35):
created to sell to sell for his own lifestyle, but
also for to create the art that he's creating, and
the create the art that's free in the street, the
street art, and people they don't like to see that.
They don't like to see that, that duality, and sometimes
(02:56):
I have to laugh about it. Sometimes it's very frustrating
because there is there is there's a commerciality to what
he does, and it's behind the scenes people, and I wish,
like one day, I wish I could tell the whole story,
and you can't. You can't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
What is the magic of Banksy? Do you think what
makes them so popular?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I think the accessibility. It's you see it and you
can see the humor. There's humor there that's very important.
You don't have to stand there for ten minutes and
look very wise and stroke your beard and go like, oh, yeah,
do you see it? And then therefore he goes like yeah,
I can see this too. That's not the case with Banksy.
Although some people interpret like go with balloon ten different
(03:45):
put ten people next to each other, that they have
a different explanation, But in general, his message is very
clear and that's what I like with Banksy. It's like
it attracts an audience which is a mix of people
that go to galleries and exhibitions, but a large part
of our audience doesn't, is not attracted to go to
(04:07):
a museum, but they will go to a Banksy exhibition.
And it's the accessibibility. I think, it's not making you
feel stupid and sometimes art like when you have to
stand there ten minutes and then look at Charlie garlagain,
you understand it, right, that's not with Banksy and the
humor I love like I love watching the audience. And
(04:29):
the first time we went to Auckland in twenty eighteen
with a way smaller collection, different curation. One of my
favorite anecdotes of doing it over the years was Auckland
because we had these three other ladies standing there and
they were looking at they were looking at a piece,
and they're going through the exhibition, and my associal producer
(04:51):
she asked them at the end, did you enjoy it? Yes? Yes,
what was your favorite piece? And then they started looking
at each other in giggling, and one of them said,
and these are ladies in their seventies eighties, and they
look at my assistant and she goes like, I loved
Queen Victoria sitting on someone's face and what exhibition has that?
(05:16):
But I think it's that, Yeah, it's for Yeah, it's
it's it's always with a with a with a bit
of a wing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
How central to the success, you know, to Banksy's success
is due to the fact that we don't know who
he is?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Oh, I think it's I think it's it's very important.
And there's all this discussion of it is it this person,
isn't that person? Is this band or that band? And
I spoke with with the journalist who actually out at
Banksy and because that's the thing, and especially in the UK,
(05:53):
every eight weeks there's a new is this Banksy? And
she added it and she worked a year on it,
and last year I spoke with her for an article
and the follow up artic Girl she was doing says,
how is this possible? People are not picking it up?
And I like, like, nobody wants to know who the
Wizard of Os is. You don't want to know, And like,
(06:16):
like sometimes people ask me when I walk in the
exhibition when we open and you've got like people walking around,
and then you give them some anecdotes and do you
know who banks he is? Can you tell me? And
then I always ask them, it's like, do you really
want to know? And then they shy away because it
takes away if you know it's Johnny or whoever. But
(06:36):
it's like, it's it's it's it's not having a face,
not having a person, not knowing that he washes his
car on a Sunday. It's like, it's it's it's perfect.
Because now after you've gone through the exhibition, that's the
nice thing when you then ask people, so, who do
you think banks he is? They all colored it in differently,
(06:58):
but they have much more information. And that's what I
like with what we do with the exhibition is it's
such a breath of word. We've got like the original
flower Thrower, which I also didn't know when until we've
stumbled on this was created seven years before you and
I knew about flower Thrower, and it was created as
(07:19):
Valentine's Day gift for then girlfriend and on the back
is a message and there's a whole story about that one.
And when you talk to her, and we've got we've
got her in the in the in the exhibition on video,
but if you talk with her, it's like, it's amazing
because we discovered when we were in London, that it
is not the only version he made. Oh yeah, there's
(07:45):
always a surprise around the corner with banks.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think that's so intriguing that his name is one
of the one of the names that has been mentioned
as to who is actually correct. And yet you're right,
no one, no one. We're quite happy to live in
the fantasy of it all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And and and and and that's the thing. It's like,
if if he would go out and say I'm Banksy,
I think everybody would put there as to their ears
and go like, I don't want to hear because it's
you don't want it, you don't want it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Do you think do you think also if we did
all know who he was, it would impact the value
of his art.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
That's a difficult question. It might. The thing is the
art world, like I'm coming from a theater background and
we I got into this it was now nine years ago,
and I have to say the art world is absolutely
like la la if. There's an orchestra that we work
(08:54):
with with with collectors, and luckily over the years in
the in the beginning we have the old we had
these collectors which were these hardcore like like investment and
not very pleasant people. Now we've whittled it down to
people who are in a way passionate about Banksy, who
buy direct from banks, or have bought direct from banks
in the beginning, when bought when they when Banksy did
(09:15):
wasn't anything. I've got people like who are actually buying
our most expensive pieces in the exhibition. They bought for
three hundred and fifty pounds. They are now multimillion pounds.
And they and they said no to to another piece
which was offered, which is in the exhibition now owned
(09:35):
by someone else, and they said no, I already spent
three fifty and like and that is even more worth.
But so we've got people there who are passionate about
banks and then it's very nice. But I like when
when there's an auction and there's a record price and
then suddenly my my email box is full the next
(09:57):
day of collectors going like, oh, we have to raise
the insurance price and like based on what Because one
thing just someone would do on is it's and try
to explain that to to to to to insurers. That's
that's funny, that's that's yeah. It's it's a it's a
it's an interesting one. We should do a play about
Banks and the.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Artwork you have is as you mentioned, loan by private collectors.
This is art as you said that Banks he sells.
How different is that to the work that we do
see on the street.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
It's very different because on the street you see a
version of it, and then there's various versions that he
does when he makes prints or when he makes uniques.
And the thing is that that we've been working together
with Banksy's printer, Ben I and who has been doing
(10:51):
the print. So when you buy a print, it's not
Banks he doing the print. He signs it, he he
changes it, he does things with it, but the basic
print is and Ben Ben is a big artist himself
and he met Banks and banks he was in a
way a little bit of a fanboy when he met
Ben because he was a street artist. He does these
beautiful letters in Soho and he he gave us hand
(11:14):
drawn sketches. So what we have in the exhibition is
everybody knows to go with balloon Flying, which is on
the wall in Israel, but what nobody knew is that
they went on a reki to Israel and they did
a sketch of what that work should become. And we
have a photograph of it next to it, next to
(11:34):
the hand drawn sketch. But they made it and then
they do they had to wait for their plane on
Ben Gurion Airport, so on the other side of it.
And if you look, if you go to the exhibition,
if you if you look carefully, you can see it
on the through the paper. Banks he drew Ben Am
(11:54):
with the sunburn and it says Ben Gurion Airport with
the with the day there with sunburn, and there's this
shading on Ben and Ben is one of those pasty pumps,
uh and but you can see it through the pay
And that's the nice thing of having having this collection
is like we've got these these these works which are
(12:18):
you don't see on the street and you don't even
know exists because he does do sketches. We have a
whole red section with with and and the other thing
which I like is but people don't know if you
work with Banksy then he does thank you, Prince. And
there's there's unique images there that have not been used,
and there's messages like hi Johnny, thank you and and
then signed by Banksy and and we have a whole
(12:40):
wall of them, and people don't know that these exists
because there's this it's this phantom thing of Banksy. No
people work with banks and he gives gifts.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And is that's why I'm saying, this is your non
disclosure agreement. I will give you a valuable ways of
that if.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
You just you know, seriously seriously funny. Oh he but
everybody knows the the exit through the Gift Show documentary.
He couldn't use that name that was owned by a band,
and he bought the rights to the name and he said, okay,
I'll make an artwork for you and he will have
the value of that name, which was around two hundred
(13:20):
and fifty thousan pounds. So they said, okay, we want
to be called brace Yourself. And so he created this work,
which we've toured for many years. It's now sold, but
we have a photograph of it and the story next
to the whole exit th to the Gift you because
I wanted people to have the context. But this is
one of those things where he makes his big work
and it's the Grim Reaper in a bumper car. And
(13:44):
then they said, okay, can we have a CoA And
you have to know, especially in the Banksy world, without
a certificate of authentication. There is no it has no value.
And Banksy said, while he was buying okay, let's say
he was buying the name Exit through the gift shop, right,
and he was paying with an artwork. He said, oh no, no, no, no,
(14:07):
it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
He is a clipper man.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And the thing is when the band sold it, they
sold it I think two years ago, and they still
got good money for it, but I know that they
would have gotten way more if that CoA was there.
And now they had to show the emails and that's
but it's different than a CoA. And he doesn't give
coas to girlfriends. None of the girlfriends I work with,
(14:34):
and there's two and a half girlfriend that I work
with a Banksy. He's given a CoA too, and one
of them the original flower throw and we show this
at the at the back. He changed the message when
she send it for a CoA. And it's a very
cheeky story. It's on video. You need to go and
see it.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh look, Michelle, isn't it fascinating? We have no idea
who he is, but clearly through this exhibition we're going
to learn an awful lot about him. Yes, yes, Thank
you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You're welcome and I look forward to come to to
walk this week and.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The Art of Banksy opens at Auckland's at Test Center
on July seventh.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks A B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News TALKSTB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He's one of the world's most famous artists. He has
a huge global following, including list of celebrities, but his
identity remains unknown. Banks he first appeared in the early
nineties spray painting his stenciled designs on the streets of Bristol.
He's now an anonymous celebrity, with exhibitions of his work
selling out all over the world. The Art of Banksy
(00:33):
is the largest collection of original and authenticated Banksy's work
and it's head into Auckland. Producer and curator of the exhibit,
Michelle Bosma knows Banksy personally and he joins me now,
good morning, Michelle, Hi, good morning. You've dealt with Banksy
and your role is producing and curating this exhibition. From
(00:54):
the dealings you've had, What is he like? How much
can you tell us about this elusive figure?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So that's a like the work that he creates. He's
a multifested person. In general, he can be very grumpy.
That's also what you hear from the people that work
with him. He's passionate about his work, which sometimes is
difficult when you do an exhibition like this because banks
(01:26):
He himself can't do a best of exhibition, which is
what the art of banks He is. We've got one
hundred and sixty works, which is an overview of his
whole career, and he as an artist, can't do that.
It's not like the Rolling Stones until a dying day.
They can do the biggest hits. He needs to do
something new every single time. But there's a duality here
(01:46):
which he doesn't like. But what he does appreciate, I
believe is that we are completely authenticated. So he can
be grumpy. It depends on when you catch him.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Obviously a very talented answer, but he must also be
a pretty astute business to have created what he has.
Do you think.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
For me? That's the duality of that duality is very
interesting because people have this view of Banksy as a
sort of Robin Hood figure in general. If you talk
like we've done this in ninety cities around the world
and in general, you get this whole like Robin Hood
kind of thing. We are dealing with collectors and collectors
who buy art often direct from Banksy, art that he's
(02:35):
created to sell to sell for his own lifestyle, but
also for to create the art that he's creating, and
the create the art that's free in the street, the
street art, and people they don't like to see that.
They don't like to see that, that duality, and sometimes
(02:56):
I have to laugh about it. Sometimes it's very frustrating
because there is there is there's a commerciality to what
he does, and it's behind the scenes people, and I wish,
like one day, I wish I could tell the whole story,
and you can't. You can't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
What is the magic of Banksy? Do you think what
makes them so popular?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I think the accessibility. It's you see it and you
can see the humor. There's humor there that's very important.
You don't have to stand there for ten minutes and
look very wise and stroke your beard and go like, oh, yeah,
do you see it? And then therefore he goes like yeah,
I can see this too. That's not the case with Banksy.
Although some people interpret like go with balloon ten different
(03:45):
put ten people next to each other, that they have
a different explanation, But in general, his message is very
clear and that's what I like with Banksy. It's like
it attracts an audience which is a mix of people
that go to galleries and exhibitions, but a large part
of our audience doesn't, is not attracted to go to
(04:07):
a museum, but they will go to a Banksy exhibition.
And it's the accessibibility. I think, it's not making you
feel stupid and sometimes art like when you have to
stand there ten minutes and then look at Charlie garlagain,
you understand it, right, that's not with Banksy and the
humor I love like I love watching the audience. And
(04:29):
the first time we went to Auckland in twenty eighteen
with a way smaller collection, different curation. One of my
favorite anecdotes of doing it over the years was Auckland
because we had these three other ladies standing there and
they were looking at they were looking at a piece,
and they're going through the exhibition, and my associal producer
(04:51):
she asked them at the end, did you enjoy it? Yes? Yes,
what was your favorite piece? And then they started looking
at each other in giggling, and one of them said,
and these are ladies in their seventies eighties, and they
look at my assistant and she goes like, I loved
Queen Victoria sitting on someone's face and what exhibition has that?
(05:16):
But I think it's that, Yeah, it's for Yeah, it's
it's it's always with a with a with a bit
of a wing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
How central to the success, you know, to Banksy's success
is due to the fact that we don't know who
he is?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Oh, I think it's I think it's it's very important.
And there's all this discussion of it is it this person,
isn't that person? Is this band or that band? And
I spoke with with the journalist who actually out at
Banksy and because that's the thing, and especially in the UK,
(05:53):
every eight weeks there's a new is this Banksy? And
she added it and she worked a year on it,
and last year I spoke with her for an article
and the follow up artic Girl she was doing says,
how is this possible? People are not picking it up?
And I like, like, nobody wants to know who the
Wizard of Os is. You don't want to know, And like,
(06:16):
like sometimes people ask me when I walk in the
exhibition when we open and you've got like people walking around,
and then you give them some anecdotes and do you
know who banks he is? Can you tell me? And
then I always ask them, it's like, do you really
want to know? And then they shy away because it
takes away if you know it's Johnny or whoever. But
(06:36):
it's like, it's it's it's it's not having a face,
not having a person, not knowing that he washes his
car on a Sunday. It's like, it's it's it's perfect.
Because now after you've gone through the exhibition, that's the
nice thing when you then ask people, so, who do
you think banks he is? They all colored it in differently,
(06:58):
but they have much more information. And that's what I
like with what we do with the exhibition is it's
such a breath of word. We've got like the original
flower Thrower, which I also didn't know when until we've
stumbled on this was created seven years before you and
I knew about flower Thrower, and it was created as
(07:19):
Valentine's Day gift for then girlfriend and on the back
is a message and there's a whole story about that one.
And when you talk to her, and we've got we've
got her in the in the in the exhibition on video,
but if you talk with her, it's like, it's amazing
because we discovered when we were in London, that it
is not the only version he made. Oh yeah, there's
(07:45):
always a surprise around the corner with banks.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think that's so intriguing that his name is one
of the one of the names that has been mentioned
as to who is actually correct. And yet you're right,
no one, no one. We're quite happy to live in
the fantasy of it all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And and and and and that's the thing. It's like,
if if he would go out and say I'm Banksy,
I think everybody would put there as to their ears
and go like, I don't want to hear because it's
you don't want it, you don't want it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Do you think do you think also if we did
all know who he was, it would impact the value
of his art.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
That's a difficult question. It might. The thing is the
art world, like I'm coming from a theater background and
we I got into this it was now nine years ago,
and I have to say the art world is absolutely
like la la if. There's an orchestra that we work
(08:54):
with with with collectors, and luckily over the years in
the in the beginning we have the old we had
these collectors which were these hardcore like like investment and
not very pleasant people. Now we've whittled it down to
people who are in a way passionate about Banksy, who
buy direct from banks, or have bought direct from banks
in the beginning, when bought when they when Banksy did
(09:15):
wasn't anything. I've got people like who are actually buying
our most expensive pieces in the exhibition. They bought for
three hundred and fifty pounds. They are now multimillion pounds.
And they and they said no to to another piece
which was offered, which is in the exhibition now owned
(09:35):
by someone else, and they said no, I already spent
three fifty and like and that is even more worth.
But so we've got people there who are passionate about
banks and then it's very nice. But I like when
when there's an auction and there's a record price and
then suddenly my my email box is full the next
(09:57):
day of collectors going like, oh, we have to raise
the insurance price and like based on what Because one
thing just someone would do on is it's and try
to explain that to to to to to insurers. That's
that's funny, that's that's yeah. It's it's a it's a
it's an interesting one. We should do a play about
Banks and the.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Artwork you have is as you mentioned, loan by private collectors.
This is art as you said that Banks he sells.
How different is that to the work that we do
see on the street.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
It's very different because on the street you see a
version of it, and then there's various versions that he
does when he makes prints or when he makes uniques.
And the thing is that that we've been working together
with Banksy's printer, Ben I and who has been doing
(10:51):
the print. So when you buy a print, it's not
Banks he doing the print. He signs it, he he
changes it, he does things with it, but the basic
print is and Ben Ben is a big artist himself
and he met Banks and banks he was in a
way a little bit of a fanboy when he met
Ben because he was a street artist. He does these
beautiful letters in Soho and he he gave us hand
(11:14):
drawn sketches. So what we have in the exhibition is
everybody knows to go with balloon Flying, which is on
the wall in Israel, but what nobody knew is that
they went on a reki to Israel and they did
a sketch of what that work should become. And we
have a photograph of it next to it, next to
(11:34):
the hand drawn sketch. But they made it and then
they do they had to wait for their plane on
Ben Gurion Airport, so on the other side of it.
And if you look, if you go to the exhibition,
if you if you look carefully, you can see it
on the through the paper. Banks he drew Ben Am
(11:54):
with the sunburn and it says Ben Gurion Airport with
the with the day there with sunburn, and there's this
shading on Ben and Ben is one of those pasty pumps,
uh and but you can see it through the pay
And that's the nice thing of having having this collection
is like we've got these these these works which are
(12:18):
you don't see on the street and you don't even
know exists because he does do sketches. We have a
whole red section with with and and the other thing
which I like is but people don't know if you
work with Banksy then he does thank you, Prince. And
there's there's unique images there that have not been used,
and there's messages like hi Johnny, thank you and and
then signed by Banksy and and we have a whole
(12:40):
wall of them, and people don't know that these exists
because there's this it's this phantom thing of Banksy. No
people work with banks and he gives gifts.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And is that's why I'm saying, this is your non
disclosure agreement. I will give you a valuable ways of
that if.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
You just you know, seriously seriously funny. Oh he but
everybody knows the the exit through the Gift Show documentary.
He couldn't use that name that was owned by a band,
and he bought the rights to the name and he said, okay,
I'll make an artwork for you and he will have
the value of that name, which was around two hundred
(13:20):
and fifty thousan pounds. So they said, okay, we want
to be called brace Yourself. And so he created this work,
which we've toured for many years. It's now sold, but
we have a photograph of it and the story next
to the whole exit th to the Gift you because
I wanted people to have the context. But this is
one of those things where he makes his big work
and it's the Grim Reaper in a bumper car. And
(13:44):
then they said, okay, can we have a CoA And
you have to know, especially in the Banksy world, without
a certificate of authentication. There is no it has no value.
And Banksy said, while he was buying okay, let's say
he was buying the name Exit through the gift shop, right,
and he was paying with an artwork. He said, oh no, no, no, no,
(14:07):
it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
He is a clipper man.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And the thing is when the band sold it, they
sold it I think two years ago, and they still
got good money for it, but I know that they
would have gotten way more if that CoA was there.
And now they had to show the emails and that's
but it's different than a CoA. And he doesn't give
coas to girlfriends. None of the girlfriends I work with,
(14:34):
and there's two and a half girlfriend that I work
with a Banksy. He's given a CoA too, and one
of them the original flower throw and we show this
at the at the back. He changed the message when
she send it for a CoA. And it's a very
cheeky story. It's on video. You need to go and
see it.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh look, Michelle, isn't it fascinating? We have no idea
who he is, but clearly through this exhibition we're going
to learn an awful lot about him. Yes, yes, Thank
you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You're welcome and I look forward to come to to
walk this week and.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The Art of Banksy opens at Auckland's at Test Center
on July seventh.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks A B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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