May 3, 2025 • 7 mins
Nagi Maehashi, founder of popular food blog RecipeTin Eats, says influencer Brooke Bellamy's new cookbook ‘Bake with Brooki’ plagiarised some recipes from her blog.
Maehashi claimed Bellamy's book contained uncannily similar ingredients, quantities, and instructions for a caramel slice and baklava.
Mike van de Elzen explained whether you could really claim ownership over a recipe.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us now from the Muda Wire Art Fair is
Mike vander alson our resident chef.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Good morning. I had to run out of
the kitchen literally about two seconds ago.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you very much for joining us. Always appreciate it.
Are you whipping up something original in the kitchen or
else's recipe?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No? No, no, all my own. What are we doing today?
We're doing beef tacos, homegrown beef. Yes, beef tacos. I'm
pretty sure I created that recipe myself. And I've got
pumpkin and quint soup that's definitely unique. I've never made
that in my life.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I want to talk to you about what has been
taking place over the Tasman. We've got these two very
popular chefs. One's a food blogger and one's an influencer
and recipe Tin Eats founder Nagi Maheshi has accused another
person of plagiarizing her recipes, which is I can understand
upsetting and quite a serious issue. But is there such
(01:06):
is an original recipe now, Mike, I.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Think it's it is very difficult. Like I've written sex cookbooks.
In each of those coockbooks, there might be some of them.
Are eighty to ninety recipes in each of those cookbooks?
Are they original? They're original to me. I've written them
all in my own words, and I've created the recipes.
Have I been influenced by other recipes? Yes to a degree. Absolutely,
(01:34):
you know, like I've probably over in my lifetime, with
thirty seven years as a chef, I've probably written five
thousand recipes. Are they all original? They all mine? They've
all been written by me. The methods are in my words,
but I've taken influences from others. Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
In this particular case, there was an issue around a
caramel slice. What are the chances two people could come
up with the recipe for sorry caramel? Yeah, come up
with a recipe for caramel slice. It was to the
gram exactly the same.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I've looked at both recipes and I think, is it Nagi?
I think she actually I think she actually has a point, because, yes,
the ingredients for a recipe can be very similar. It
is very difficult to copyright a recipe because all you
need to do is just swap one recipe out say
you swap out brown sugar for raw sugar. You know,
(02:26):
it's a different recipe, it's still using sugar. But when
it comes to the method and looking at both recipes,
it's like Brookie has taken the method and fed it
into ai. AI has spat it out in just a
slightly different wording. But the method is exactly the same
in regards to turn other and on cream the butter,
(02:48):
when bubbles a pair to add in the condensed milk.
You know, it is so identical. I think she has
totally copied that recipe in my mind, is it.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
On the publisher to make sure this doesn't happen?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, I know has been Has Brookie put this into
a crook book or is it just gone on to social?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, it's in a cookbook.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It isn't a cookbook. Would I would be questioning the
publisher if it was just on social. A lot of
people are, you know, are splitting out hundreds of thousands
of recipes every day on social, you know, to get
and to keep up with that demand, they're going to
have to look at other recipes. You know, there's no
way you can create a recipe from scratch when you're
(03:30):
having to fulfill the demands of social So I think
that the copywriter, like I have dyslexia. It so my
writing is sometimes back to front upside down, and so
it's on my publisher, and I need my publisher to
look at the wording and the method and make sure
that the grammar is correct. But to take a recipe
(03:52):
and copy that almost to the point, I think that
is not a good thing. And I think I think
Naga has a point. I really do.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And it's not the first time it's happened, is it, Mike.
I mean this has happened in the past with other chiefs.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, well, Gordon apparently I was looking back. Gordon copied
a recipe for a pig's head cabanara dish, and that's
a very unique dish. And the longer the recipe is,
say you take a Heston recipe Heston Bloom and phile
his recipes are. They may have forty or fifty ingredients
in them. The techniques are massive, so it's harder to
(04:26):
copy a recipe like that, or it's more obvious if
you do copy a recipe like that, where if you
take something like a caramel slice, it's quite simple thing,
you know, it's been done untold times. But to copy
the method and not write in her own words, that's
what she's got one.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I love the way you just call these chefs by
the first name you talk about. Gordon Ramsey. Yeah, I've
read Gordon and my other friends. You know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Cooked with both of them, and I was lucky enough
to cook with both of them and I didn't get
shouted at by either of them.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
If someone uses one of your recipes MICA's inspiration, would
you expect some kind of acknowledgment. Is there just sort
of a personal curtise to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
In the profession. Yes. If another chef was to take
a dish that you created and to put it into
their own cookbook or to put it onto a menu
of their own restaurant, then there's you know, there's a
there's an unwritten rule where you don't you simply don't
do that because people will start to look at you
in a different light as as a chef. Are that
(05:28):
by your other peirs. But if a chef was to
or anyone was to take a recipe and go, wow,
that's a really good recipe, but I'm going to tweak it.
I'm going to put my twist on it, and that's
that's great, that's super, that's you know, it's in honor
to have some chefs looking at your recipes in that way.
But you certainly change it and you twist it, and
you you swap out at least three or four ingredients
(05:51):
within that recipe.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I understand, especially in this day and age at the moment,
the importance of taking ownership of your work and it
not being ripped off and things like that. But do
you think either of these chefs come out looking good
when you've got a bit of a spat like this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, I think it's I think it's Brookie that has
has clearly copied, so I think she's the one that's
going to come out looking bad. And I think Nagi,
who wrote the recipe originally, is going to come out well.
I think neither of them will. But I think Nagi
will come out on the better side because at least
(06:28):
she's not the one that's copied the recipe. And I
think Brookie will be very will be getting very closely
looked at by people who buy her books but also
probably buy a publisher.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But I mean how many I mean caramel slice is
caramel slice I mean, how many twists do you get
on it? Surely so many of the recipes of the
similar you.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Know, they are in the ingredients, but it's the method
that needs to be written in that person's own words.
You know, everyone has a different twist on a method,
a different way of saying something, a different way of
adding a bit of love to it and a bit
of personality to it. And that's where it's that's where
it's falling apart for her, because it's clear that she's
just copied the method as well as the ingredients.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Mike, thank you so much for talking us through that
and during the rest of your morning at the murroau
I Art Fair.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us now from the Muda Wire Art Fair is
Mike vander alson our resident chef.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Good morning. I had to run out of
the kitchen literally about two seconds ago.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you very much for joining us. Always appreciate it.
Are you whipping up something original in the kitchen or
else's recipe?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No? No, no, all my own. What are we doing today?
We're doing beef tacos, homegrown beef. Yes, beef tacos. I'm
pretty sure I created that recipe myself. And I've got
pumpkin and quint soup that's definitely unique. I've never made
that in my life.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I want to talk to you about what has been
taking place over the Tasman. We've got these two very
popular chefs. One's a food blogger and one's an influencer
and recipe Tin Eats founder Nagi Maheshi has accused another
person of plagiarizing her recipes, which is I can understand
upsetting and quite a serious issue. But is there such
(01:06):
is an original recipe now, Mike, I.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Think it's it is very difficult. Like I've written sex cookbooks.
In each of those coockbooks, there might be some of them.
Are eighty to ninety recipes in each of those cookbooks?
Are they original? They're original to me. I've written them
all in my own words, and I've created the recipes.
Have I been influenced by other recipes? Yes to a degree. Absolutely,
(01:34):
you know, like I've probably over in my lifetime, with
thirty seven years as a chef, I've probably written five
thousand recipes. Are they all original? They all mine? They've
all been written by me. The methods are in my words,
but I've taken influences from others. Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
In this particular case, there was an issue around a
caramel slice. What are the chances two people could come
up with the recipe for sorry caramel? Yeah, come up
with a recipe for caramel slice. It was to the
gram exactly the same.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I've looked at both recipes and I think, is it Nagi?
I think she actually I think she actually has a point, because, yes,
the ingredients for a recipe can be very similar. It
is very difficult to copyright a recipe because all you
need to do is just swap one recipe out say
you swap out brown sugar for raw sugar. You know,
(02:26):
it's a different recipe, it's still using sugar. But when
it comes to the method and looking at both recipes,
it's like Brookie has taken the method and fed it
into ai. AI has spat it out in just a
slightly different wording. But the method is exactly the same
in regards to turn other and on cream the butter,
(02:48):
when bubbles a pair to add in the condensed milk.
You know, it is so identical. I think she has
totally copied that recipe in my mind, is it.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
On the publisher to make sure this doesn't happen?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, I know has been Has Brookie put this into
a crook book or is it just gone on to social?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, it's in a cookbook.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It isn't a cookbook. Would I would be questioning the
publisher if it was just on social. A lot of
people are, you know, are splitting out hundreds of thousands
of recipes every day on social, you know, to get
and to keep up with that demand, they're going to
have to look at other recipes. You know, there's no
way you can create a recipe from scratch when you're
(03:30):
having to fulfill the demands of social So I think
that the copywriter, like I have dyslexia. It so my
writing is sometimes back to front upside down, and so
it's on my publisher, and I need my publisher to
look at the wording and the method and make sure
that the grammar is correct. But to take a recipe
(03:52):
and copy that almost to the point, I think that
is not a good thing. And I think I think
Naga has a point. I really do.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And it's not the first time it's happened, is it, Mike.
I mean this has happened in the past with other chiefs.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, well, Gordon apparently I was looking back. Gordon copied
a recipe for a pig's head cabanara dish, and that's
a very unique dish. And the longer the recipe is,
say you take a Heston recipe Heston Bloom and phile
his recipes are. They may have forty or fifty ingredients
in them. The techniques are massive, so it's harder to
(04:26):
copy a recipe like that, or it's more obvious if
you do copy a recipe like that, where if you
take something like a caramel slice, it's quite simple thing,
you know, it's been done untold times. But to copy
the method and not write in her own words, that's
what she's got one.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I love the way you just call these chefs by
the first name you talk about. Gordon Ramsey. Yeah, I've
read Gordon and my other friends. You know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Cooked with both of them, and I was lucky enough
to cook with both of them and I didn't get
shouted at by either of them.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
If someone uses one of your recipes MICA's inspiration, would
you expect some kind of acknowledgment. Is there just sort
of a personal curtise to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
In the profession. Yes. If another chef was to take
a dish that you created and to put it into
their own cookbook or to put it onto a menu
of their own restaurant, then there's you know, there's a
there's an unwritten rule where you don't you simply don't
do that because people will start to look at you
in a different light as as a chef. Are that
(05:28):
by your other peirs. But if a chef was to
or anyone was to take a recipe and go, wow,
that's a really good recipe, but I'm going to tweak it.
I'm going to put my twist on it, and that's
that's great, that's super, that's you know, it's in honor
to have some chefs looking at your recipes in that way.
But you certainly change it and you twist it, and
you you swap out at least three or four ingredients
(05:51):
within that recipe.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I understand, especially in this day and age at the moment,
the importance of taking ownership of your work and it
not being ripped off and things like that. But do
you think either of these chefs come out looking good
when you've got a bit of a spat like this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, I think it's I think it's Brookie that has
has clearly copied, so I think she's the one that's
going to come out looking bad. And I think Nagi,
who wrote the recipe originally, is going to come out well.
I think neither of them will. But I think Nagi
will come out on the better side because at least
(06:28):
she's not the one that's copied the recipe. And I
think Brookie will be very will be getting very closely
looked at by people who buy her books but also
probably buy a publisher.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But I mean how many I mean caramel slice is
caramel slice I mean, how many twists do you get
on it? Surely so many of the recipes of the
similar you.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Know, they are in the ingredients, but it's the method
that needs to be written in that person's own words.
You know, everyone has a different twist on a method,
a different way of saying something, a different way of
adding a bit of love to it and a bit
of personality to it. And that's where it's that's where
it's falling apart for her, because it's clear that she's
just copied the method as well as the ingredients.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Mike, thank you so much for talking us through that
and during the rest of your morning at the murroau
I Art Fair.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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