September 27, 2025 • 10 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, resident economist at Opes Partners, Ed McKnight, and Newstalk ZB host Roman Travers joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Foreign Minister Winston Peters confirmed New Zealand wouldn't recognise a Palestinian state at this point in time. Are we surprised by this?
The All Blacks managed to turn their luck around and beat the Wallabies 33-24 at Eden Park - and claim the Bledisloe Cup. But would it mean more if we won it over three matches?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB and it is time.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For the panel, and I'm joined by a resident economist
at Opie's Partners, Ed mcnight. How are you ed.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Great to be here at Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I love the enthusiasm and newstalks d be host Roman
Travis as well us.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Good morning, Roman, Yeah morning. I dream of being an
economist as well, but.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah I do. Okay, let's start with the big news yesterday.
Of course, we've been waiting for a very long time
to hear what the government stance would be on recognizing
Palestinian state. I think people were quite surprised ed that
Winston Preeters decided that this was not the right time
to acknowledge Palestinian statehood. Do you think he made the
(00:51):
right decision?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, what I'd just say, Francesca, because this pretty emotional
issue is that this has been going on in conflict
in the Region's been going on for thousands of years.
So we're not going to be solving it ten minutes
today on the panel. But I do have views which
I know a bit different from what I see my
friends posting on Instagram, and just before I share that,
I do want to say that while reasonable people can
(01:15):
disagree on this specific issue, there's probably a lot we
all agree on, like that it is horrific. It is
horrific what is going on in Gaza, and it was
also horrific what her mastered on October seventh, and that
Israel probably has gone too far at the moment in
this war. But also Israeli hostages should be returned and
(01:35):
there should be a two state solution. But in this
specific case about recognizing a palace city in state today,
I do think it was the right call.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Because the thing is Roman. We actually all want the
same thing. I think New Zealanders, as I just said,
as a nation, want nothing more than her Master hand
over the Israeli hostages and for Israel to stop razoring
Gaza and you know, creating this death and feminine things
that we're seeing. And I think we all want to
get to a point where there is a ceasefire, there
(02:05):
is some pain, we can start working towards this two
sets stution. As a country, we haven't changed. We want
to how where we want to go, it's just how
we get there. On whether this was just a bit
of a diplomatic not as you recognize the state of Palestine,
or whether it actually would have had some kind of impact.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, well, just the fact that we talk about hostages
from one side says it all. We've fed from the
propaganda troph of Israel for this whole conflict. They have
plenty of hostages too. They have people in prison. They
have nine and a half thousand people in prison, some
as young as eleven and twelve, with no charges whatsoever.
And this conflict that we've you know, the self proclaimed
(02:44):
nation of democracy Israel. It's a weird word that they
choose to use. It's been going on for eighty years,
and it's been on the UN General Assembly agenda for
eighty years. So all the talking, all the words, the
failure to capture the magnitude of the genocide inflicted upon
the people of the Gaza strip. They only want their
right to be recognized as a nation as Palestinians as
(03:04):
they once were, and we've decided it's not the right
time for that. In the meantime, more of them die.
Our decision shows that we've got more of an issue
with Palestine's determination to have their own nation than we
do with the so called democratic leadership of Israel and
the ongoing genocide. New Zealand is trade with many countries
right now. Some of those countries have got track records
(03:26):
at a HEENUS towards humanity. We keep trading them. But
yesterday we showed the world that we effectively support a
war criminal and his actions of genocide, and that we
don't care about the displaced and the dispossessed.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But what impact would it have had?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
What?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, I think you know, it is a very
emotive issue and things like that, and there is a
lot that we all want to see happen. I think
I've thought that mister Peters's speech was very pragmatic, cleverly
crafted and quite nuanced in what he was recognizing. And
I think what he's saying is we could jump on
board and make this claim now, but that's not actually
(04:05):
going to help contribute to the statehood of Palestine.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Says who sees who to do nothing to make no meaningful?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
How what impact wood New Zealand saying.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
That had well, doing nothing will guarantee that nothing to We.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Shouldn't sit on the fence, we should do somethingte know.
I spoke to geopolitical analysis analyst this morning who said, actually,
maybe we're better off. How can we actually contribute in
a meaningful way. Maybe it is going and getting involved
in ceasefi talks.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I look absolutely more. The more that we can do
rather than just making a statement, it's ongoing action. But
the TACIT approval that we've shown by doing nothing is
tacit approval for Israel. There are more than one hundred
and fifty countries who have now recognized Palestine this year
alone as an independent state with their own sovereignty. One
hundred and fifty seven. Actually that's eighty one percent of
the UN membership. So sadly, our coalition government have once
(04:54):
again proven how weak and ineffective they are yesterday.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Do you think it's weak and ineffective or hardly as
it's also been called.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Ed, No, I don't think so. I think it is.
It was a very few speech from Winston Peters. But
I also don't want you to think, Francesca that I'm
saying Roman is wrong, because he's raised a lot of
very good points and a lot of very fair points.
The way that I said is that it's improper to
reward terrorism by Hamas with political gains there should be
(05:24):
recognition of a Palestinian state, just not at this point.
And one of the things that we really need to
ask ourselves is which government are we recognizing in Palestine
because there are two separate parts. Right We've got the
West Bank, which is ruled by the Palestinian authority. They
haven't had elections for thirty years. Then we've got the
Gaza Strip, which is ruled by Hamas. Their political leadership
(05:45):
is in exile. They haven't lived in the Gaza Strip
for thirteen years. There's no one Palestinian government to recognize now.
As soon as they get one and we sought out
some borders and we figure out what happens with the
illegal Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory, I think that's the
point where you can say, yes, we're recognizing a state.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Because the issue is, of course, I mean is Israel
should be able to exist in a safe manner and
in a secure manner and things as well. But they
are actually doing everything they possibly can at the moment
ed to make sure that there can't be a Palaestinian
state when you see the illegal building going on in
the West Bank and things like that. So what they
are trying to do, you know, is do everything they
(06:23):
possibly can to almost make it impossible to determine what
a Palatinian state or you know, the existence of one
would be. That that is not an issue.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
One hundred percent. They are doing so many very bad things,
like the settlements, that the fact that the war has
gone so far, there has been so much human destruction,
and Gaza and the Palestinian citizens living there are the
ones who are bearing the brunt of this at the moment,
and that's the real tragedy.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
There was a simple solution to this, It would have
been found decades ago.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So there's not no that's right. But the world has
this guilt about not standing up to Israel. And when
we talk about, you know, we can't be seen to
be supporting terrorism. What the heck do you think we're
doing by letting Israel do they're doing. What they're doing
has been proven to be as if it needed to be,
genocide and terrorism. And yet the little despotic briolcream man
carries on with his own way, his own people now
(07:18):
standing up by the hundreds of thousands saying enough it
has to stop. He seems like a megalomaniac who's completely unstoppable.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Let's lighten up the panel with a little bit of
rugby torku, because there's no easy segue into that, is there.
We had a hilarious conversation this morning. We're all sort
of sighed. You know, there was a bit of a
sigh of relief when we knew that we'd have one
piece of silverware left in the cupboard at New Zealand
Rugby the bledders Low Cup. But my producer made the
point goes, why only two games come on? It's the
(07:47):
bledders Low Cup. It's important to us we should at
least should be the best of three instead of you
play one game and someone holds it up ahead and goes, well, great, fantastic,
we've got it.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, should be.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Three, right, I mean I think it's all to do
with what they can fit in in the air.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's only Australia. It's not that far away.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
No it's not. But there.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You know, rugby is so much rugby on now. We
used to have seasons. We used to have season called
winter when people dragged out their rugby boots, and now
it's the whole time. You know what I'd like to
see given the guys that went off with more Head
and duryk assessments last night, what I'd like to see.
You know, in tennis they have those ball boys and girls.
What we need in rugby is that. But they run
on with great big pads and when they see a
really bad collision about to happen, they run between the
(08:26):
players and prevent it. And that's no seriously, because we
just go to see more and more children moving away
from rugby, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think we already have. I think over the last
decade there's been a really big, big well that's just
an anecdotal from having watching my children grow up and
most people playing football or you know, various basketballs become huge.
Hasn't it your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Ed?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Would you like to see three games to battle it
out for a Bledderslow couple? Does it really does not matter? Well?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I don't really know much about rugby, but I was
down at a central Auckland bar last night watching the
game and at the end and it was a fantastic
atmosphere and at the end of it they're holding up
the cup and I kind of think, oh, is that
it one game? It really should be three? You know, like,
because then you know maybe that maybe one team just
gets lucky. Surely you want to have a couple of
(09:13):
rounds to make sure that the best team takes home
this enormous piece of silverware.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
But I was just like, oh, is that up?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Did you like the five o'clock kickoff? Then?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Did you loved it?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Because that I could be a bit I needed to
be a bid for NYE and thirty because of course
the clock sprung Ford sprung forward last night, and so
we need to get the extra out of sleep so
we could be on the panel. So five more of that.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Did you notice, though, did you notice, guys, how fashionable
the referee is with his bald head, and then there's
a guy who's going to drive Italian baldness like they
can never before. His ball been absolutely sexy and cool,
driven by an Italian referee who loves his whistle.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I know that. Yeah, I'm not sure anyone's terribly concerned
about his baldness, but I think they were a little
bit concerned about how bidanky was around the breakdown. We
will talk to Jason Pine about that next. Ed McKnight
and Romantra was thank you so much for joining us,
really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca rud listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB and it is time.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For the panel, and I'm joined by a resident economist
at Opie's Partners, Ed mcnight. How are you ed.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Great to be here at Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I love the enthusiasm and newstalks d be host Roman
Travis as well us.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Good morning, Roman, Yeah morning. I dream of being an
economist as well, but.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah I do. Okay, let's start with the big news yesterday.
Of course, we've been waiting for a very long time
to hear what the government stance would be on recognizing
Palestinian state. I think people were quite surprised ed that
Winston Preeters decided that this was not the right time
to acknowledge Palestinian statehood. Do you think he made the
(00:51):
right decision?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, what I'd just say, Francesca, because this pretty emotional
issue is that this has been going on in conflict
in the Region's been going on for thousands of years.
So we're not going to be solving it ten minutes
today on the panel. But I do have views which
I know a bit different from what I see my
friends posting on Instagram, and just before I share that,
I do want to say that while reasonable people can
(01:15):
disagree on this specific issue, there's probably a lot we
all agree on, like that it is horrific. It is
horrific what is going on in Gaza, and it was
also horrific what her mastered on October seventh, and that
Israel probably has gone too far at the moment in
this war. But also Israeli hostages should be returned and
(01:35):
there should be a two state solution. But in this
specific case about recognizing a palace city in state today,
I do think it was the right call.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Because the thing is Roman. We actually all want the
same thing. I think New Zealanders, as I just said,
as a nation, want nothing more than her Master hand
over the Israeli hostages and for Israel to stop razoring
Gaza and you know, creating this death and feminine things
that we're seeing. And I think we all want to
get to a point where there is a ceasefire, there
(02:05):
is some pain, we can start working towards this two
sets stution. As a country, we haven't changed. We want
to how where we want to go, it's just how
we get there. On whether this was just a bit
of a diplomatic not as you recognize the state of Palestine,
or whether it actually would have had some kind of impact.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, well, just the fact that we talk about hostages
from one side says it all. We've fed from the
propaganda troph of Israel for this whole conflict. They have
plenty of hostages too. They have people in prison. They
have nine and a half thousand people in prison, some
as young as eleven and twelve, with no charges whatsoever.
And this conflict that we've you know, the self proclaimed
(02:44):
nation of democracy Israel. It's a weird word that they
choose to use. It's been going on for eighty years,
and it's been on the UN General Assembly agenda for
eighty years. So all the talking, all the words, the
failure to capture the magnitude of the genocide inflicted upon
the people of the Gaza strip. They only want their
right to be recognized as a nation as Palestinians as
(03:04):
they once were, and we've decided it's not the right
time for that. In the meantime, more of them die.
Our decision shows that we've got more of an issue
with Palestine's determination to have their own nation than we
do with the so called democratic leadership of Israel and
the ongoing genocide. New Zealand is trade with many countries
right now. Some of those countries have got track records
(03:26):
at a HEENUS towards humanity. We keep trading them. But
yesterday we showed the world that we effectively support a
war criminal and his actions of genocide, and that we
don't care about the displaced and the dispossessed.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But what impact would it have had?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
What?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, I think you know, it is a very
emotive issue and things like that, and there is a
lot that we all want to see happen. I think
I've thought that mister Peters's speech was very pragmatic, cleverly
crafted and quite nuanced in what he was recognizing. And
I think what he's saying is we could jump on
board and make this claim now, but that's not actually
(04:05):
going to help contribute to the statehood of Palestine.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Says who sees who to do nothing to make no meaningful?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
How what impact wood New Zealand saying.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
That had well, doing nothing will guarantee that nothing to We.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Shouldn't sit on the fence, we should do somethingte know.
I spoke to geopolitical analysis analyst this morning who said, actually,
maybe we're better off. How can we actually contribute in
a meaningful way. Maybe it is going and getting involved
in ceasefi talks.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I look absolutely more. The more that we can do
rather than just making a statement, it's ongoing action. But
the TACIT approval that we've shown by doing nothing is
tacit approval for Israel. There are more than one hundred
and fifty countries who have now recognized Palestine this year
alone as an independent state with their own sovereignty. One
hundred and fifty seven. Actually that's eighty one percent of
the UN membership. So sadly, our coalition government have once
(04:54):
again proven how weak and ineffective they are yesterday.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Do you think it's weak and ineffective or hardly as
it's also been called.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Ed, No, I don't think so. I think it is.
It was a very few speech from Winston Peters. But
I also don't want you to think, Francesca that I'm
saying Roman is wrong, because he's raised a lot of
very good points and a lot of very fair points.
The way that I said is that it's improper to
reward terrorism by Hamas with political gains there should be
(05:24):
recognition of a Palestinian state, just not at this point.
And one of the things that we really need to
ask ourselves is which government are we recognizing in Palestine
because there are two separate parts. Right We've got the
West Bank, which is ruled by the Palestinian authority. They
haven't had elections for thirty years. Then we've got the
Gaza Strip, which is ruled by Hamas. Their political leadership
(05:45):
is in exile. They haven't lived in the Gaza Strip
for thirteen years. There's no one Palestinian government to recognize now.
As soon as they get one and we sought out
some borders and we figure out what happens with the
illegal Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory, I think that's the
point where you can say, yes, we're recognizing a state.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Because the issue is, of course, I mean is Israel
should be able to exist in a safe manner and
in a secure manner and things as well. But they
are actually doing everything they possibly can at the moment
ed to make sure that there can't be a Palaestinian
state when you see the illegal building going on in
the West Bank and things like that. So what they
are trying to do, you know, is do everything they
(06:23):
possibly can to almost make it impossible to determine what
a Palatinian state or you know, the existence of one
would be. That that is not an issue.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
One hundred percent. They are doing so many very bad things,
like the settlements, that the fact that the war has
gone so far, there has been so much human destruction,
and Gaza and the Palestinian citizens living there are the
ones who are bearing the brunt of this at the moment,
and that's the real tragedy.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
There was a simple solution to this, It would have
been found decades ago.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So there's not no that's right. But the world has
this guilt about not standing up to Israel. And when
we talk about, you know, we can't be seen to
be supporting terrorism. What the heck do you think we're
doing by letting Israel do they're doing. What they're doing
has been proven to be as if it needed to be,
genocide and terrorism. And yet the little despotic briolcream man
carries on with his own way, his own people now
(07:18):
standing up by the hundreds of thousands saying enough it
has to stop. He seems like a megalomaniac who's completely unstoppable.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Let's lighten up the panel with a little bit of
rugby torku, because there's no easy segue into that, is there.
We had a hilarious conversation this morning. We're all sort
of sighed. You know, there was a bit of a
sigh of relief when we knew that we'd have one
piece of silverware left in the cupboard at New Zealand
Rugby the bledders Low Cup. But my producer made the
point goes, why only two games come on? It's the
(07:47):
bledders Low Cup. It's important to us we should at
least should be the best of three instead of you
play one game and someone holds it up ahead and goes, well, great, fantastic,
we've got it.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, should be.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Three, right, I mean I think it's all to do
with what they can fit in in the air.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's only Australia. It's not that far away.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
No it's not. But there.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You know, rugby is so much rugby on now. We
used to have seasons. We used to have season called
winter when people dragged out their rugby boots, and now
it's the whole time. You know what I'd like to
see given the guys that went off with more Head
and duryk assessments last night, what I'd like to see.
You know, in tennis they have those ball boys and girls.
What we need in rugby is that. But they run
on with great big pads and when they see a
really bad collision about to happen, they run between the
(08:26):
players and prevent it. And that's no seriously, because we
just go to see more and more children moving away
from rugby, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think we already have. I think over the last
decade there's been a really big, big well that's just
an anecdotal from having watching my children grow up and
most people playing football or you know, various basketballs become huge.
Hasn't it your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Ed?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Would you like to see three games to battle it
out for a Bledderslow couple? Does it really does not matter? Well?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I don't really know much about rugby, but I was
down at a central Auckland bar last night watching the
game and at the end and it was a fantastic
atmosphere and at the end of it they're holding up
the cup and I kind of think, oh, is that
it one game? It really should be three? You know, like,
because then you know maybe that maybe one team just
gets lucky. Surely you want to have a couple of
(09:13):
rounds to make sure that the best team takes home
this enormous piece of silverware.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
But I was just like, oh, is that up?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Did you like the five o'clock kickoff? Then?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Did you loved it?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Because that I could be a bit I needed to
be a bid for NYE and thirty because of course
the clock sprung Ford sprung forward last night, and so
we need to get the extra out of sleep so
we could be on the panel. So five more of that.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Did you notice, though, did you notice, guys, how fashionable
the referee is with his bald head, and then there's
a guy who's going to drive Italian baldness like they
can never before. His ball been absolutely sexy and cool,
driven by an Italian referee who loves his whistle.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I know that. Yeah, I'm not sure anyone's terribly concerned
about his baldness, but I think they were a little
bit concerned about how bidanky was around the breakdown. We
will talk to Jason Pine about that next. Ed McKnight
and Romantra was thank you so much for joining us,
really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca rud listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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