Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And it is time for the panel and joining me
this morning, we have editor and journalist Joe mccarell.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Good morning, Joe, Good morning Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And we have TV producer and commentator Irene Gardner. Hi, Irene,
Hi there. Good to have you both on board. We
kicked off the show this morning by talking about the
Labor Party. They are having their annual conference in christ
Church and Chris Hipkins has come out saying we need
to make changes. They understand that the public has lost
trust in them. The response that I've kind of had
(00:41):
throughout the morning, Irene, I think from a lot of
people is I'm just not sure whether Hipkins is going
to be able to regain that trust after having such
a strong leading role throughout the COVID period.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yeah, I think he is potentially through the tarnish by that.
It's just unfortunate and kind of unfair because you know,
he was just doing his job and of course mistakes
were made, but you know it was the once in
a lifetime scene we were building the playing while we
were flying at But he will I think find it
(01:19):
hard to come out from under the shadow of that.
And you know, that is a lot of why they
lost the election was just the you know, the last
remnants of.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
All of that.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Having said that, he's a good man, he's a good leader,
people do like him. But maybe there is a way
through that. I noticed, you know, one of your team, Heather,
had written an opinion piece for the Heild looking about
you know, would it actually makes sense for them to
do some kind of an apology for you know, as
the reports coming out and there's you know, actually, you know,
(01:50):
we didn't need the mandates as long and we you know,
I mean, I think most people are often realized we
didn't need the lockdown quite so long, and you know,
there were things that managedised. I mean, you know, would
it makes sense at some point to say, hey, look,
you know we had a great response, we saved lives,
We did a good job. It was imperfect, and we
do apologize for those in perfections. I mean, I don't know.
(02:11):
It was an interesting idea. Maybe it would help reset things.
That's what they need, isn't that a research?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, they do need a recession. And look, the comment
that I got from Thomas Coughlin, who was at the conference,
the faithful in the room sort of energized by Chross Hopkins,
and he's saying all the right things, Joe. But you
know that article that Irene was referring to, of course,
is the call to apologize for the mandates, which was
(02:38):
one aspect of the COVID response, which was criticized pretty
toughly in that inquiry that came out this week.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, I was a little uncomfortable with that suggestion in
Heather's column. I mean, I'm not arguing the mandates and
the lockdowns came at a cost, and the report that
came out this week pots it, I think quite well,
and it said it was a high cost to a
substantial minority. So I think we should look back, we
should reflect, we should learn, we should put strategy in
place so we can do better in the future. But
(03:08):
I don't know you should be expected to apologize for
making decisions with the information you had available at the
time that you thought were the best decisions. And I
feel the call for Hipkins to kind of wear it
as an individual, given he is now currently the leader
of the opposition party, I feel that's a politically charged call.
(03:30):
I think the coalition government would love to see the
opposition party really bogged down in relitigating these past decisions
and not talking about the future.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So are you're saying because because politics and apologies are
really tricky, right, there is a time and a place,
and you know, there are times where it's okay to
be seen doing them in the times when you just
don't because it's not a good look when you're trying
to run over the voters. But I do wonder, Joe,
whether this is I think to move forward. It's something
that maybe should be addressed.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think one hundred percent Hipkins was making that point
at the conference, moving forward. But at the same time,
I mean, I don't know, looking forward, if the decision
is about people choosing, you know, labor or national in
the same way as we used to. I think people
are choosing between engaging in politics at all and simply disengaging.
I mean, there's such a lack of belief in these
(04:22):
traditional structures, and I think that's a more poisonous sort
of substance because you can't opt out of the country
that is ruled by the people who you're voting for.
So it's without leaving new Zealand, of course. So I
think that disengagement with any political party or the traditional
(04:45):
political system is really where the change and challenge should
should be focused.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I mean, do you think that Hipkins can he stay?
And when the election do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I think potentially he can. But I wouldn't absolutely one
hundred percent say that. You know, I find him to
be a very decent person, a very you know, interesting leader,
but he is a little bit lacking in that sort
of I don't know what would you call it, the
killer instinct you don't miss you have to have that.
(05:22):
And I guess it will come down to who else
is around him, you know, like I mean, is there
any one the Probably not at the moment, and look
at three years and I think he's sort a person where, honestly,
if I think if he thought there was someone there,
I think he's a person who would actually just wouldn't
(05:43):
make it difficult. I think he'd just let that happen
in in you know, that true way. I'm not suggesting
leader persess that material necessarily, but I have been quite
impressed by Barbara Edmonds at conference, the finance manager. She's
got something. I think she's got a few things going
for us. She's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, I think you're completely right, Iren. I mean, decent guy.
Has he got the ribs, you know, But I would
say was Luxon or Adern or Key. I don't think
any of them were leading the party two years out
from an election. So it's been a while since we've
had a leader of the opposition who was the leader
of the opposition and became Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I think the biggest challenge for him at the
moment is just pulling the party together and firming up
their direction and their policy. And of course they're back
looking at capital gains or wealth tax Joe, which gosh,
would be good to just come up with a take
on this and stick to it.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Oh, one hundred percent. But that you're so right, Francisca.
He needs to find the thing that New Zealanders respond
to and connect with and feel like it's relevant to them,
and find a direction on that and then stick to
that direction. I mean, that's where this lack of engagement
at all is what I'm saying. I think he needs
to find something, and I think the idea of reducing inequality,
(07:04):
I think there'd be a lot of New Zealanders who'd
love to a country where everyone has a chance to
get ahead, everyone has the chance of a decent and
dignified life. But unfortunately it's never as simple as a
single piece of legislation, is it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
No? No, it is not a New Zealand gardener. And
I just want to bring this up, Joe. I just
want to say congratulations, because of course, as editor is turned.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Eighty eighty eighty years in print started in nineteen forty four.
Isn't that what you'relebrating?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It is impressive, Irena, you are gardener.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yes, I am, and I am. Also this is how
I know Joe a former producer of Maggie scar Show
about five thousand million years ago. And so I am
a great Admira of Joe's work and her magazine and
for any magazine rate.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes, wow, yeah, something to be still going Joe, not
only eighty years, but well done for keeping it going
at the moment. Here's the thing. My partner went off
on a garden tour, recently joined his parents, returned to
his hometown of taih Happi and enjoyed looking at the
gardens and had an amazing weekend. But it is something
(08:18):
which you know he did make the point he was
probably the youngest person on the garden tour. Joe, I'm
just wondering a young people into gardening. I think I
think a lot of people probably have edible gardens, But
is it something that is sort of continuing on through
the generations.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, I absolutely think it is. I think you feel
it is a nation of gardeners. I mean, I think
we are gardening in different ways. We are coming to
gardening through a different path. Those days are perhaps gone
where you had this quarter acre section that you bought
at twenty one, and you know, you set up a
large country garden, But having plants around you, having your
(08:58):
hands in the soil, getting outside, it's all just so positive.
And people still absolutely feel that plants are endlessly fascinated
to me. And I think if you think, oh, I've
never seen that, stop slow down and just open your
mind to that, because I think having a garden, having
plants in life would make anyone's life better.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You've raised a really good point there about the size
about properties and the sizes in the room that we
have full gardens and things.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So yeah, we have less space and we have less time,
but we can still have plants in our lives, and
they can still bring a great deal to our lives.
And I see that again and again and again. I
absolutely see young people coming in. They do come in
through edible gardening or perhaps cut flowers or of course
house plants, but they come into the world of plants,
because why wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
My producer has just told me that her daughter goes
to the garden club at school six seven. We're at seven.
It's her favorite thing and she brings plants home to
her mother, who kills them within a couple of weeks
pretty quickly. That is lovely. So it's really great to
hear it is coming. It is still throwing the schools
(10:09):
as well. Good to hear. And congratulations Joe eighty years.
Very impressive for New Zealand gardener. I'm sure that Carrie
doesn't kill all the plants that her daughter brings home.
She might, I'm sure she'll correct me.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.