March 15, 2025 • 9 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, Capital editor Ben Thomas and editor and journalist, Jo McCarroll joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Chris Luxon hasn't had a good couple of weeks - and it's being reflected in the latest batch of polls. What does this mean for the Prime Minister? Is he in danger of being rolled?
Finance Minister Nicola Willis is also considering upping KiwiSaver contributions in a bid to better support New Zealand's growing aging population. Do we think these changes are needed?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks at b all the highs and lows
talking the big issues of the week, the panel on
the Sunday Session and joining.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Me today on the panel we have Director at Capital
Ben Thomas.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning, Ben, monitor.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Nice to talk to you, and we're also joined by
editor and journalist Joe McCarroll.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Hi, Joe, good morning. Right.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Okay, So an incredibly busy week just being an ahead
for the Prime minister. Clearly there is a lot of
hard work being done, plenty of action. Unfortunately it takes
a little while to see results, and then we get
a pole drop for the Prime Minister, which you know
wasn't great. But Ben, I don't see that he is
(00:54):
in any danger of being rolled at the moment, especially
when you're a party that is promising overseas investors' stability.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah. Look, I think that at this stage it will
be kind of crazy, you know, to instigate a leadership
spill of any kind. You know, I think it's pretty
well established that Luxon there's a drag on the National
Party's polling. He doesn't connect with the public in the
way that a lot of our you know, something our
previous recent prime ministers have had. I'd probably leave crusiptions
(01:28):
out of that. But you know, suddenly John Key and
just under our durn at the same time, you know,
as you said, you know the instability that comes with
changing prime minister midstream. You would have to have a
much more dia sort of situation on your hands or
much less hope for a turnaround, you know, in a
pretty you know, sort of mediocre polling before you would
(01:51):
take those steps.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But Joe, does it matter? Maybe you don't connect the
way previous prime ministers have, but if you can deliver,
if you could do what you said you were going
to do, which is fix the economy, does that matter?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think it does still matter a bit. And I
would also challenge whether or not Luxon is delivering on
what he's promising. I mean, I think he talks a
good game, but I feel like nothing happens. I feel
like his persona versus reality And I don't know. I mean,
I would agree with Ben that he's failing to connect
(02:27):
with New Zealand, and I would also slightly agree that
maybe there won't be a leadership challenge or it's an
interesting time to go overseas, and I was thinking of
Bulger going to Chogham and you know, barely got the
duty free back before ship with them. But I don't
I mean, I think basically nobody would want to step
up right now. But I mean, what PM has come back,
(02:49):
you know, bad poll after bad pole, poor preferential PM ratings,
open discussion on the radio about whether or not they'll
be rolled, and gone on to win the election. So
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some pretty serious
thought being given into National's leadership by National Party and Peace.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So mean, what does Crystal Luxon need to do then
over the coming months in order to settle that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Well, it's essentially a combination of what you and Joe
have said, which is that he needs to First of all,
he needs the economy to turn around. That is the
biggest drag on Nationals polling is that the cost of
living crisis. It's evolved somewhat so to take in higher
interest rates more than sort of you know, rapidly increasing crisis.
(03:41):
So inflation sort of been brought under control in the
last year, but of course prices haven't fallen and there
have been new pressures as a result of the higher
interest rates to get that done. That means that things
are tough for people and their families and for businesses,
and things didn't get appreciably less tough in the year
in a bit after National was elected. And you know,
(04:03):
is it because people sort of expect things to happen
too quickly and of turning the ship around. Probably, But
then you know, politicians are pretty happy to let them
sort of let voters think that there will be a
sudden turnaround, you know, during an election campaign they if
they win, So you know, it really is that sort
(04:24):
of thing that essentially that the economic malaise has just
kind of continued. It's continued longer than I think most
people expected, including Luxon and the Finance minister. But they're
hoping that the turnaround finally sort of comes in the
second half of this year. So the challenge now is
just to sort of show that there is enough initiative,
(04:45):
enough new actions taken to grow the economy that they'll
be kind of rewarded with the confidence of the electorate
until they get to that point where the business cycle
is sort of coming up and people are feeling a
bit better about their situations in any case, Jo if.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We look at the polls and we see and for
the first time Chris Hopkins became preferred home lister over
Christopher Luxon only just but if you take a look
at that, is there a vote towards Labor going gosh,
look at them and then in this invigorating new vision
they have for New Zealand or is it almost a
protece vote going? Actually, guys, we expect more from you,
(05:23):
get going and deliver. We want to see more from
the current coalition.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Oh, I mean, I think right Bridges made that point
pretty well. I think people are saying this isn't good enough.
But if they're saying that, now, you know, how much
more runway do you get before you're not the preferred option.
I mean, I don't think there's a lot of voters
in New Zealand who think Labour's offering an absolute dazzling
(05:50):
vision right now either. But at the same time, they're
in opposition. So you know, if you're leading the country,
lead it, bring it, bring on all these changes, bring
on all this economic growth, and you know it. Ben's
absolutely right. I think you know some of that is
absolutely outside of Luxe's hands. And he's very much a
hostage to Trump and what Trump decides. But if the
(06:11):
cost of living continues to be the incredible challenges for
New Zealand, if people are really struggling, yeah, they will
blame the party who are currently government.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We had Sam Stubbs on the show in the first
hour this morning and we were talking about Nikola Willis
saying that she is going to seek some advice on
key we Saver and is considering upping contributions. And his
thought is, Yep, we need to start, you know, upping
that by you know, even if it's half a percentage
a year to get to sort of nearra where Australia's at.
And by July this year they're going to be at
(06:44):
twelve percent of salaries and wages being contributed to key
we Saver. Do you think we desperately need to look
at this and quite quickly, Ben, because we've been a
little bit slow in addressing the issues that we have
about our aging population.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
We certainly need to do something about saving The other
alternative would be to do something about house prices, and
politicians have been proven pretty unwilling to do that. Bishop's
making some good progress now the previous government based some
good progress and freeing up land use. But look the
pri you know, New Zealand super was predicated on the
(07:22):
idea that people would own their own homes when they
retired and it would give them a sort of basic
sort of living wage for you know, living allowance for
a certain period. You know, it didn't contemplate people you know,
routinely living into their sort of late eighties or nineties,
you know, wanting to go on overseas trips and also
(07:44):
not owning their own homes. And so we do need
to get the savings right up considerably. Pretty tough time
to try and do it when people are currently squeezed
by the cost of living. You probably want to do
the same thing that Grant Robertson did with his now
abortive you know, workplace insurance scheme, which is introduce it
(08:07):
when people are feeling like they've got a little bit
more leeway in their hip pockets.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Joe, your thoughts would you like to see an increase
in the contribution or maybe making it compulsory.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Well, I tell you we're looking for a vision for
the future. Sign me up for the one. Sam Stubbs
with outlining, I mean we're all living with dignity. We're
paying for the infrastructure deficit out of our own savings.
I mean, that's the future I'd love to see. Yeah,
I do want to see it go up. I mean,
I take your point, Ben. It doesn't feel like the
perfect time, but they'll never be the perfect time. I think.
(08:37):
You know, those default rates, they are so sticky, and
people stay on them for you know, potentially up until retirement.
You know, we need to be saving more. We're not.
We are an aging population and there just will not
be the money in the kitty to pay for the
retirement that most of us are looking to have. And
so yeah, I'm one hundred percent raise it and you know,
(08:58):
continue to chip away at it over time so we
can fund our own retirement.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Ben Thomas and Joe McCarroll, thank you so much for
being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks ATB from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks at b all the highs and lows
talking the big issues of the week, the panel on
the Sunday Session and joining.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Me today on the panel we have Director at Capital
Ben Thomas.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning, Ben, monitor.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Nice to talk to you, and we're also joined by
editor and journalist Joe McCarroll.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Hi, Joe, good morning. Right.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Okay, So an incredibly busy week just being an ahead
for the Prime minister. Clearly there is a lot of
hard work being done, plenty of action. Unfortunately it takes
a little while to see results, and then we get
a pole drop for the Prime Minister, which you know
wasn't great. But Ben, I don't see that he is
(00:54):
in any danger of being rolled at the moment, especially
when you're a party that is promising overseas investors' stability.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah. Look, I think that at this stage it will
be kind of crazy, you know, to instigate a leadership
spill of any kind. You know, I think it's pretty
well established that Luxon there's a drag on the National
Party's polling. He doesn't connect with the public in the
way that a lot of our you know, something our
previous recent prime ministers have had. I'd probably leave crusiptions
(01:28):
out of that. But you know, suddenly John Key and
just under our durn at the same time, you know,
as you said, you know the instability that comes with
changing prime minister midstream. You would have to have a
much more dia sort of situation on your hands or
much less hope for a turnaround, you know, in a
pretty you know, sort of mediocre polling before you would
(01:51):
take those steps.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But Joe, does it matter? Maybe you don't connect the
way previous prime ministers have, but if you can deliver,
if you could do what you said you were going
to do, which is fix the economy, does that matter?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think it does still matter a bit. And I
would also challenge whether or not Luxon is delivering on
what he's promising. I mean, I think he talks a
good game, but I feel like nothing happens. I feel
like his persona versus reality And I don't know. I mean,
I would agree with Ben that he's failing to connect
(02:27):
with New Zealand, and I would also slightly agree that
maybe there won't be a leadership challenge or it's an
interesting time to go overseas, and I was thinking of
Bulger going to Chogham and you know, barely got the
duty free back before ship with them. But I don't
I mean, I think basically nobody would want to step
up right now. But I mean, what PM has come back,
(02:49):
you know, bad poll after bad pole, poor preferential PM ratings,
open discussion on the radio about whether or not they'll
be rolled, and gone on to win the election. So
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some pretty serious
thought being given into National's leadership by National Party and Peace.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So mean, what does Crystal Luxon need to do then
over the coming months in order to settle that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Well, it's essentially a combination of what you and Joe
have said, which is that he needs to First of all,
he needs the economy to turn around. That is the
biggest drag on Nationals polling is that the cost of
living crisis. It's evolved somewhat so to take in higher
interest rates more than sort of you know, rapidly increasing crisis.
(03:41):
So inflation sort of been brought under control in the
last year, but of course prices haven't fallen and there
have been new pressures as a result of the higher
interest rates to get that done. That means that things
are tough for people and their families and for businesses,
and things didn't get appreciably less tough in the year
in a bit after National was elected. And you know,
(04:03):
is it because people sort of expect things to happen
too quickly and of turning the ship around. Probably, But
then you know, politicians are pretty happy to let them
sort of let voters think that there will be a
sudden turnaround, you know, during an election campaign they if
they win, So you know, it really is that sort
(04:24):
of thing that essentially that the economic malaise has just
kind of continued. It's continued longer than I think most
people expected, including Luxon and the Finance minister. But they're
hoping that the turnaround finally sort of comes in the
second half of this year. So the challenge now is
just to sort of show that there is enough initiative,
(04:45):
enough new actions taken to grow the economy that they'll
be kind of rewarded with the confidence of the electorate
until they get to that point where the business cycle
is sort of coming up and people are feeling a
bit better about their situations in any case, Jo if.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We look at the polls and we see and for
the first time Chris Hopkins became preferred home lister over
Christopher Luxon only just but if you take a look
at that, is there a vote towards Labor going gosh,
look at them and then in this invigorating new vision
they have for New Zealand or is it almost a
protece vote going? Actually, guys, we expect more from you,
(05:23):
get going and deliver. We want to see more from
the current coalition.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Oh, I mean, I think right Bridges made that point
pretty well. I think people are saying this isn't good enough.
But if they're saying that, now, you know, how much
more runway do you get before you're not the preferred option.
I mean, I don't think there's a lot of voters
in New Zealand who think Labour's offering an absolute dazzling
(05:50):
vision right now either. But at the same time, they're
in opposition. So you know, if you're leading the country,
lead it, bring it, bring on all these changes, bring
on all this economic growth, and you know it. Ben's
absolutely right. I think you know some of that is
absolutely outside of Luxe's hands. And he's very much a
hostage to Trump and what Trump decides. But if the
(06:11):
cost of living continues to be the incredible challenges for
New Zealand, if people are really struggling, yeah, they will
blame the party who are currently government.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We had Sam Stubbs on the show in the first
hour this morning and we were talking about Nikola Willis
saying that she is going to seek some advice on
key we Saver and is considering upping contributions. And his
thought is, Yep, we need to start, you know, upping
that by you know, even if it's half a percentage
a year to get to sort of nearra where Australia's at.
And by July this year they're going to be at
(06:44):
twelve percent of salaries and wages being contributed to key
we Saver. Do you think we desperately need to look
at this and quite quickly, Ben, because we've been a
little bit slow in addressing the issues that we have
about our aging population.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
We certainly need to do something about saving The other
alternative would be to do something about house prices, and
politicians have been proven pretty unwilling to do that. Bishop's
making some good progress now the previous government based some
good progress and freeing up land use. But look the
pri you know, New Zealand super was predicated on the
(07:22):
idea that people would own their own homes when they
retired and it would give them a sort of basic
sort of living wage for you know, living allowance for
a certain period. You know, it didn't contemplate people you know,
routinely living into their sort of late eighties or nineties,
you know, wanting to go on overseas trips and also
(07:44):
not owning their own homes. And so we do need
to get the savings right up considerably. Pretty tough time
to try and do it when people are currently squeezed
by the cost of living. You probably want to do
the same thing that Grant Robertson did with his now
abortive you know, workplace insurance scheme, which is introduce it
(08:07):
when people are feeling like they've got a little bit
more leeway in their hip pockets.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Joe, your thoughts would you like to see an increase
in the contribution or maybe making it compulsory.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Well, I tell you we're looking for a vision for
the future. Sign me up for the one. Sam Stubbs
with outlining, I mean we're all living with dignity. We're
paying for the infrastructure deficit out of our own savings.
I mean, that's the future I'd love to see. Yeah,
I do want to see it go up. I mean,
I take your point, Ben. It doesn't feel like the
perfect time, but they'll never be the perfect time. I think.
(08:37):
You know, those default rates, they are so sticky, and
people stay on them for you know, potentially up until retirement.
You know, we need to be saving more. We're not.
We are an aging population and there just will not
be the money in the kitty to pay for the
retirement that most of us are looking to have. And
so yeah, I'm one hundred percent raise it and you know,
(08:58):
continue to chip away at it over time so we
can fund our own retirement.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Ben Thomas and Joe McCarroll, thank you so much for
being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks ATB from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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