December 7, 2024 • 8 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, broadcaster and journalist Wilhemina Shrimpton and economist at Opes Partners Ed McKnight joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Two participants in the Government's pilot boot camp were arrested in Waikato yesterday, following reports of an attempted carjacking involving a machete. Is this a bad start for the new initiative? Should we find an alternative solution?
More millennial and Gen Z-aged Kiwis have turned to the Bank of Mum and Dad to fund their first homes. Is this problematic?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it is time for the panel now, and I'm
joined by resident economists at ope's partners, Ed mcnight high Ed.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hi, Francesca, great to be here, and we've.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Also got broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Hi, Wilhelmina, good morning.
Good to have you both with us. Can we please
first start about the story around the boot camp and
the two young people who went missing and were found
in not an ideal situation for those who are running
(00:42):
the boot camp. Look, when the boot camps were set up,
we knew that they wouldn't be one hundred percent successful.
They wouldn't have one hundred percent success rate. I think
what most of us were really hoping was that the
way that they were going to be designed would offer
a solution to helping young people get back on track. Willemina,
this isn't a good start.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No, it doesn't really bode well for the start of
this trial. I don't think we really needed this trial
to prove that all in all, ultimately they don't work
or aren't as effective as other methods. There's already evidence
out there to show that. I think we really have
to strip back the layers and look behind it and
actually address the issues at the core. That's things like
poverty and equality, abuse, isolation, the lack of family support
(01:21):
and connection, and look actually why these young people are
driven to a life of crime. Obviously, the boot camps
are a less expensive, easier option, I think, and is
obviously a quicker likelihood of getting results, which is probably
why the government has taken that route instead of putting
all of its focus and time and addressing those core issues.
(01:44):
But many of these young people, if you look at them,
they have grown up without parents, without opportunity, They don't
have a sense of community and connection. And I remember
doing a story maybe two or three years ago when
ram raids were a massive issue and speaking to a
couple of ram raiders at the time, I think one
of them was thirteen, one of them was fifteen, And
when you peel back the layers and you actually talk
to them without any outside influence, it was just me
(02:06):
and them talking and discussing why it was that they
did this, and it was really sad, and they said,
I don't have any family, I don't have anywhere to go.
I've found a sense of community and a sense of
belonging and doing things like this that other people who
are doing it, they've taken me under their wing. And
it's obviously those issues that we really need to target
to stop people. It's the preventative measures rather than the
(02:29):
ambulance that of the cliff and I appreciate the effort
that's been made to do something, but I just don't
know if this is the right route.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Do you think it's too soon to judge a program with.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
This, I think it's much too soon, And in fact,
I think the fact that there are some young kids
running around with machetes trying to hijack cars shows you
the exact reason why we need these boot camps. These
kids aren't doing these ridiculous things because of the boot camps.
That's the reason why we've got to have them. And
I understand what Wilhelmine is saying that we've got to
(02:57):
think about some of the other causes of poverty and
whether people have parents and a nice home and all
of these things. But meanwhile, they're out there doing some
really serious things. And the person that I'm really thinking
about is that poor lady in Hamilton who had people
run up to her car wielding machetes trying to take
her car off her And we need to make sure
(03:18):
that these kids are getting some serious attention and probably
doing some things like boot camps to make sure that
the public is safe.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I was really hoping Willhelana that we were going
to have a slightly different approach to the boot camps
as time to address some of the issues that you
were talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I think there needs to
be more of a kind of a wrap around approach.
We have to look at why these kids are breaking out,
Why is the situation within those boot camps so untenable
that they are breaking out? So, you know, perhaps if
there was more of that sense of committing And obviously,
you know, we've all not been in there and seen
it firsthand, so we can't share that experience, that lived experience.
But I think there's a real importance for a wrap
(03:57):
around approach. I get there is merit in giving them
a sense of schedule, a sense of purpose, you know,
getting up at sixty m, lights off at nine. I
get that would be useful, but I think that there
is more to it. There is more that needs to be.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Done, absolutely, I think, and I think too when it
comes to the way that this is presented, I feel
like everyone kind of needs to who's involved in this,
needs to get in a room together, find the good
news stories out of this, out of these boot camps,
and prevent presenting that information as well, because something tells
me that this particular story isn't going to go anywhere
in a hurry. I think it's going to be around
for a week or two. And look, something else that
(04:32):
caught my attention this week is the reliance on the
bank of mum and dad. And a Keiwi bank commissioned
a survey of two thousand and eight national representatives. They
responded and they found that thirty four percent of homeowners
said that they receive financial help from family to buy
(04:52):
their first home, which is quite a lot of people
requiring this help. And I just think this is going
to be hugely problematic. One because it means that mum
and Dad are going to need to have wealth beyond
their own retirement needs, which can be quite difficult at times.
And two, I think that you know, for those who
aren't able to get that help, they're just going to
(05:14):
leave the country yet.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, there's a couple of things in there. The good
news is that two thirds of homeowners haven't used the
bank of mum and dad. And what's important to just
understand is it's not always parents giving a boatload of
cash to their kids. What often happens is that mum
and dad own their own house, they take up a
small top up mortgage against their property and then either
gift or loan that to their kids. So it's not
(05:38):
like it's just people with boatloads of cash. It can
also be just normal people who own their own home,
have paid off a bit of the mortgage and then
are using that equity to help their kids out. A
couple of other important stats, just to pick up buying
a first home in New Zealand, the statistics are going
really well at the moment. In fact, as a proportion
of the market, first home buyers have never been so
(05:59):
active in the market right now. They are the number
one buying group out there with over a quarter of
properties per just over the last three months we buy
first home buyers and at the last sentence we actually
saw home ownership increase, so it's not all a bad
news story for KI. We first home buyers at the.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Moment, No, not at all, Willemina. So right, we've seeing
house prices fall a bit, affordability measures have improved a
little bit, and as you say, there's lots of first
home buyers out there, but it's still clearly you've got
all these good conditions will mean, but clearly people still
need some help.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I was googling around this
morning and just trying to find sort of the average
facts and figures and around, you know, the kind of
average salary of a New Zealander sort of around sixty
five thousand dollars was the most recent figures I could find.
It might be slightly higher than that. Whereas the average
house price, although it's fallen down, it's stabilized. It's really
good news. It's still just shy of a million in
terms of national figures. Which if you're looking at basing
(06:57):
that on a twenty percent house deposit, especially if you're
single and you're buying it on your own, you can
see why people are sort of getting a bit of
a hand up from their parents. I don't think there's
anything wrong with mum and dad helping you into your
first home, especially if at the other end that maybe
you're helping them in their older years. But I think
it becomes a problem when there's a massive reliance or
an expectation in that. Like Ed was saying, there are
(07:20):
you know, lots of other options. Obviously lots of situations
it's alone you pay your parents back, but there's also
other things to explore, like the concept of co ownership.
So going in and actually buying a property with your parents.
They're not giving you the money, they're not loaning you
the money, but they have a stake in that equity.
So there are ways that it can actually be done fairly.
But honestly, I admire all the people, especially people who
(07:43):
are buying on their own, who are able to do
it without any help. Props to them because it's no
easy feat.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Oh look, thank you both so much. No, I don't think.
I don't think parents are handing handing out money and
goingre go, go for it. I think there's is there
absolutely loans or gifts or it's coming through a trust
and various things like that. Thank you both so much.
Ed McKnight and Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it is time for the panel now, and I'm
joined by resident economists at ope's partners, Ed mcnight high Ed.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hi, Francesca, great to be here, and we've.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Also got broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Hi, Wilhelmina, good morning.
Good to have you both with us. Can we please
first start about the story around the boot camp and
the two young people who went missing and were found
in not an ideal situation for those who are running
(00:42):
the boot camp. Look, when the boot camps were set up,
we knew that they wouldn't be one hundred percent successful.
They wouldn't have one hundred percent success rate. I think
what most of us were really hoping was that the
way that they were going to be designed would offer
a solution to helping young people get back on track. Willemina,
this isn't a good start.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No, it doesn't really bode well for the start of
this trial. I don't think we really needed this trial
to prove that all in all, ultimately they don't work
or aren't as effective as other methods. There's already evidence
out there to show that. I think we really have
to strip back the layers and look behind it and
actually address the issues at the core. That's things like
poverty and equality, abuse, isolation, the lack of family support
(01:21):
and connection, and look actually why these young people are
driven to a life of crime. Obviously, the boot camps
are a less expensive, easier option, I think, and is
obviously a quicker likelihood of getting results, which is probably
why the government has taken that route instead of putting
all of its focus and time and addressing those core issues.
(01:44):
But many of these young people, if you look at them,
they have grown up without parents, without opportunity, They don't
have a sense of community and connection. And I remember
doing a story maybe two or three years ago when
ram raids were a massive issue and speaking to a
couple of ram raiders at the time, I think one
of them was thirteen, one of them was fifteen, And
when you peel back the layers and you actually talk
to them without any outside influence, it was just me
(02:06):
and them talking and discussing why it was that they
did this, and it was really sad, and they said,
I don't have any family, I don't have anywhere to go.
I've found a sense of community and a sense of
belonging and doing things like this that other people who
are doing it, they've taken me under their wing. And
it's obviously those issues that we really need to target
to stop people. It's the preventative measures rather than the
(02:29):
ambulance that of the cliff and I appreciate the effort
that's been made to do something, but I just don't
know if this is the right route.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Do you think it's too soon to judge a program with.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
This, I think it's much too soon, And in fact,
I think the fact that there are some young kids
running around with machetes trying to hijack cars shows you
the exact reason why we need these boot camps. These
kids aren't doing these ridiculous things because of the boot camps.
That's the reason why we've got to have them. And
I understand what Wilhelmine is saying that we've got to
(02:57):
think about some of the other causes of poverty and
whether people have parents and a nice home and all
of these things. But meanwhile, they're out there doing some
really serious things. And the person that I'm really thinking
about is that poor lady in Hamilton who had people
run up to her car wielding machetes trying to take
her car off her And we need to make sure
(03:18):
that these kids are getting some serious attention and probably
doing some things like boot camps to make sure that
the public is safe.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I was really hoping Willhelana that we were going
to have a slightly different approach to the boot camps
as time to address some of the issues that you
were talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I think there needs to
be more of a kind of a wrap around approach.
We have to look at why these kids are breaking out,
Why is the situation within those boot camps so untenable
that they are breaking out? So, you know, perhaps if
there was more of that sense of committing And obviously,
you know, we've all not been in there and seen
it firsthand, so we can't share that experience, that lived experience.
But I think there's a real importance for a wrap
(03:57):
around approach. I get there is merit in giving them
a sense of schedule, a sense of purpose, you know,
getting up at sixty m, lights off at nine. I
get that would be useful, but I think that there
is more to it. There is more that needs to be.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Done, absolutely, I think, and I think too when it
comes to the way that this is presented, I feel
like everyone kind of needs to who's involved in this,
needs to get in a room together, find the good
news stories out of this, out of these boot camps,
and prevent presenting that information as well, because something tells
me that this particular story isn't going to go anywhere
in a hurry. I think it's going to be around
for a week or two. And look, something else that
(04:32):
caught my attention this week is the reliance on the
bank of mum and dad. And a Keiwi bank commissioned
a survey of two thousand and eight national representatives. They
responded and they found that thirty four percent of homeowners
said that they receive financial help from family to buy
(04:52):
their first home, which is quite a lot of people
requiring this help. And I just think this is going
to be hugely problematic. One because it means that mum
and Dad are going to need to have wealth beyond
their own retirement needs, which can be quite difficult at times.
And two, I think that you know, for those who
aren't able to get that help, they're just going to
(05:14):
leave the country yet.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, there's a couple of things in there. The good
news is that two thirds of homeowners haven't used the
bank of mum and dad. And what's important to just
understand is it's not always parents giving a boatload of
cash to their kids. What often happens is that mum
and dad own their own house, they take up a
small top up mortgage against their property and then either
gift or loan that to their kids. So it's not
(05:38):
like it's just people with boatloads of cash. It can
also be just normal people who own their own home,
have paid off a bit of the mortgage and then
are using that equity to help their kids out. A
couple of other important stats, just to pick up buying
a first home in New Zealand, the statistics are going
really well at the moment. In fact, as a proportion
of the market, first home buyers have never been so
(05:59):
active in the market right now. They are the number
one buying group out there with over a quarter of
properties per just over the last three months we buy
first home buyers and at the last sentence we actually
saw home ownership increase, so it's not all a bad
news story for KI. We first home buyers at the.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Moment, No, not at all, Willemina. So right, we've seeing
house prices fall a bit, affordability measures have improved a
little bit, and as you say, there's lots of first
home buyers out there, but it's still clearly you've got
all these good conditions will mean, but clearly people still
need some help.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I was googling around this
morning and just trying to find sort of the average
facts and figures and around, you know, the kind of
average salary of a New Zealander sort of around sixty
five thousand dollars was the most recent figures I could find.
It might be slightly higher than that. Whereas the average
house price, although it's fallen down, it's stabilized. It's really
good news. It's still just shy of a million in
terms of national figures. Which if you're looking at basing
(06:57):
that on a twenty percent house deposit, especially if you're
single and you're buying it on your own, you can
see why people are sort of getting a bit of
a hand up from their parents. I don't think there's
anything wrong with mum and dad helping you into your
first home, especially if at the other end that maybe
you're helping them in their older years. But I think
it becomes a problem when there's a massive reliance or
an expectation in that. Like Ed was saying, there are
(07:20):
you know, lots of other options. Obviously lots of situations
it's alone you pay your parents back, but there's also
other things to explore, like the concept of co ownership.
So going in and actually buying a property with your parents.
They're not giving you the money, they're not loaning you
the money, but they have a stake in that equity.
So there are ways that it can actually be done fairly.
But honestly, I admire all the people, especially people who
(07:43):
are buying on their own, who are able to do
it without any help. Props to them because it's no
easy feat.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Oh look, thank you both so much. No, I don't think.
I don't think parents are handing handing out money and
goingre go, go for it. I think there's is there
absolutely loans or gifts or it's coming through a trust
and various things like that. Thank you both so much.
Ed McKnight and Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!