October 18, 2025 • 10 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, Coast day host Lorna Riley and partner at Freebairn and Hehir, Liam Hehir, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Ahead of Thursday's planned strike action, Judith Collins penned an open letter claiming the strikes are more about politics than outcomes. Is this a panic move by the Government? What do we make of all this?
Prince Andrew will no longer be known as the Duke of York following ongoing turmoil surrounding his alleged involvement with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. What do we think will happen next?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News talks 'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Pan of Time Now, and I'm joined by Coast Day
host Laurna Riley. Good morning, Launa, good morning, and partner
at Freebad and Hand Liam here. Hi, Liam, Marina right,
Let's talk about this open letter that was in the
Herald on Sunday today from Judas columns. I wonder if
I could start with you, Liam, what was your take
on that letter?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I would say it's defensive readiness rather than panicking, but
a recognition that they're going to have a fight for
a message on their hands and they want to get
get in front of it. Really crucial for any national
government when confronted with any sort of shrike action to
make clear that it's a.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Contest between not between the workers or the professionals in
the government, but between the unions and the government and
so like. That fight for the message was very, very
important for the government because while people genuinely they tend
to trust professionals and like professionals, especially for example, the
healthcare sector, trust, the aras consistently show that that unions
(01:16):
are much more distrusted like politicians. Journalists and lawyers, and
so you don't want to make sure that you're picking
your battles and framing it as well as your new code.
So it was just I think it was. I wouldn't
call it panic. I'd caught defensive readiness.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, I couldn't quite work it out Liam when I
first read it. And of course this is a head
of Thursday where there's estimated to be one hundred thousand
public sector workers walking off the jobs, got the teachers,
of doctors and nurses.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And everyone like that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I couldn't quite work it out, Liam. I couldn't
work out whether it was a bit desperate, whether it
was a bit full of fear, whether it was I
think defensive is probably a good word, because Lorna, this
is very much about trying to own the narrative around
this very large strike which is going to potentially happen
this week.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Absolutely, and I think Liam's hit the nail on the head.
It is about the unions rather than the professionals that
are actually shoring up those unions. I'm not sure that
firing shots like this is helpful to successful mediation. It
makes it a very much us in them situation, and
this comes, of course, on top of Simeon Brown, who
accused doctors of crossing an ethical line and threatening changes
(02:19):
to the law to prevent them striking, really really unhelpful.
Like you, Francesca, I have a child still at school.
I've got a daughter who's a primary school teacher. She'd
moved to Australia in a heartbeat if it went for
a shed custody arrangement she's got. And I've spent a
lot of this year in and out of public hospital,
a great deal of contact with nursing professionals, district nurses.
(02:44):
I spoke to one district nurse. She was her fourth
day in a row, working double shift because they just
don't have the staff. I suspect MP's tend to go
private hospitals. Maybe they don't have enough contact with the
public hospitals. But there is a real problem there, and
I can see why the strike action is taking place.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Are we at an impast, do you think, Liam?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yes? I mean, well, you know it's it's you always
are what what the sides want are irreconcilable, uh, and
you know one side is going to have to back
down eventually, or you know there have to be a
compromise that that's reached. But what you know reading that
letter though, again you know, just I just want to
(03:29):
emphasize how often do you have columns use the word
unions like right, it's all you know, you know, as
you as you ask your teachers, why the union has
you know, like why the union has done this? Why
the unions have done this? So yeah, there, I mean,
if they wounded an empast, we wouldn't be at this
at this at this thing. But the way through the
(03:51):
impass is often going to be, you know, who who
wins the public narrative, who can hold out against the
public right And so you know, government wanted to be
government versus unions, not government versus nurses and teachers.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's a very good point. I do you. I think
that the union did not help themselves when we're talking
about we're talking about the teachers, the PPTA, with the
Palestine issue being raised. I feel like that was an
own goal, Launa. I don't think that that was going
to advance. That is a very easy thing and it
(04:26):
comes I think in the third paragraph of that letter.
It was a very easy thing to throw out there
and go, see, the unions are not on task they're
throwing all this random, wild stuff in and look at them.
They're getting involved in politics. And I don't think they
helped themselves there. I think they dug themselves a little
whole there.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
I think most of us would read that and go,
you know, that's ridiculous that that was the first point
that was raised by the PPTA. But I see that
as a big red hearing the fact that you know,
Juridus Collins really focused on that. I think she said
plaster and several times, almost as many times as she
said union.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And we're supposed to.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Get outraged by that, but it is actually deflecting from
the biggest issue. And you've got to remember too that
you know, this comes on top of the budget where
the government made that controversial enlast minute change making industrial
and pay equity claims more difficult, halting thirty three current claims.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So there is a big.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Picture behind what is happening on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
This is turning into the double D letter deflecting and defensive.
I think we've got two very good words there. Liam.
They the government will not want these issues hanging over
them heading into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Will they were not affair on the wrong side of
public sympathy for them. Actually, you know, the history is
is that national parties do well often when there's conflict
with unions as long as unions are perceived as being
the enemies of order and progress. And that is why
the Palace Point thing is actually quite a powerful message
(05:58):
for the government to go back to, right, because that
has nothing to do with the priorities of patients or
parents of teat and so, you know, it's not a
good thing for any government to deal with. It's not
good for the for the country, but it's not necessarily
politically damaging as long as they are in front of
the message and they're able to choose their target wisely.
(06:20):
And so yeah, maybe it is a red hearing, but
you know who's who's who's to blame for that. It's
not the government.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, okay, I don't believe that this letter is going
to create the dialogue that is needed.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I don't think it's a step forward. I think it's
purely just a little bit of it. It's just more
politicing and things that just Yeah, everyone put them as
I said earlier, they're big girl and big boy pants
on and get into a room and get it sorted
for all of our sake. I think I would like
to talk about someone who finally has put their big
boy pants on, and that is Prince Andrew, who has
finally acknowledged the fact Norna, that really you cannot behave
(06:56):
appallingly for several decades with terrible behavior and really think
that you can maintain your position within the rural family.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Yeah. I don't think he's had he's put his big
boy pants on so much as someone has held him
down and forced him to put them on.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
They've pretty much stripped him of title, status and dignity.
So the life he was born to has been replaced
by a life that he is absolutely absolutely going to hate.
I guess the royal family are hoping this is going
to bring an end to the awful saga. Of course,
we've got Virginia Dufre's memoir posthumously being published this week,
(07:36):
so I don't think this is going to go away
anytime soon. I was interested too, that he hasn't formally
lost his titles the Duke of York, the Baron of
wherever it was, because apparently to do that requires an
act of Parliament, and no one wants to go there,
but he is going to be prevented from using them
publicly or privately. And I just I take some comfort
(07:58):
in the fact that he's rattling around in that thirty
room Royal Lodge with plain old Sarah Ferguson fairly friendless
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well wait and see how long he's you know, can
afford to live there and things. No, I Liam, I
think that it's slightly appalling that it has taken this
long for the royal family to act upon, like tucking
him away in a corner and things. Obviously it just
had to wait, you know, they just got to a
point where they could no longer the King could no
(08:29):
longer ignore this. I think this should have been done
a long time ago, and I think we've missed the
boat yet. I don't think they're going to be able
to own the narrative on this. I think that the
damn has burst and we're just going to get more
and more information about Prince Andrew coming forward.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, you're totally right, and I'm just to you know,
fear this is the riety's point. You know, he hasn't
He's still the Duke of York, you know, like it
don't look like he's owned that. It looks like he's
been a compromise, which is a right. Well, we're not
going to take the nucleareruption of a shoew of the
actual titles, which by the way, don't necessarily require an
neck to powerment. It could be done by the king
(09:04):
by unless you're this is a royal patient, which would
be more of a humiliation. But he sort of jumped
before he was pushed and taking sort of the lesser option.
He's still the Duke of York. He's you know, he's
just not going to refer himself to himself that way,
you know, for the time being. And look, the thing
is is that you know, in some ways I feel
(09:26):
for Prince for King Charles, and King Charles is going
through you know, cancer himself, and for pet we can
reasonably surmise that for for a long time, you know
that Prince Andrew was proticted by the mother, you know,
and not and not the king. And you know, for
all her great you know, a strengths is a monarch.
(09:46):
The Queen was was still a loving mother to Prince Andrew,
and and some sort of a favorite of hers. And
so look, you know, I say this is a royalist
is that not a royalist but a constitutional monarch. And
that's the poort of the royal family. It's it's it's
fartulay and there's not nearly enough, and so you know
that the hawk has bolted. It's too late to close
the barn door.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
When you're relinquished, you're not taking any accountability, are you.
Thank you so much to Lorna Riley and Liam here
for joining me today on the Paneltry.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News talks 'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Pan of Time Now, and I'm joined by Coast Day
host Laurna Riley. Good morning, Launa, good morning, and partner
at Freebad and Hand Liam here. Hi, Liam, Marina right,
Let's talk about this open letter that was in the
Herald on Sunday today from Judas columns. I wonder if
I could start with you, Liam, what was your take
on that letter?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I would say it's defensive readiness rather than panicking, but
a recognition that they're going to have a fight for
a message on their hands and they want to get
get in front of it. Really crucial for any national
government when confronted with any sort of shrike action to
make clear that it's a.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Contest between not between the workers or the professionals in
the government, but between the unions and the government and
so like. That fight for the message was very, very
important for the government because while people genuinely they tend
to trust professionals and like professionals, especially for example, the
healthcare sector, trust, the aras consistently show that that unions
(01:16):
are much more distrusted like politicians. Journalists and lawyers, and
so you don't want to make sure that you're picking
your battles and framing it as well as your new code.
So it was just I think it was. I wouldn't
call it panic. I'd caught defensive readiness.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, I couldn't quite work it out Liam when I
first read it. And of course this is a head
of Thursday where there's estimated to be one hundred thousand
public sector workers walking off the jobs, got the teachers,
of doctors and nurses.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And everyone like that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I couldn't quite work it out, Liam. I couldn't
work out whether it was a bit desperate, whether it
was a bit full of fear, whether it was I
think defensive is probably a good word, because Lorna, this
is very much about trying to own the narrative around
this very large strike which is going to potentially happen
this week.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Absolutely, and I think Liam's hit the nail on the head.
It is about the unions rather than the professionals that
are actually shoring up those unions. I'm not sure that
firing shots like this is helpful to successful mediation. It
makes it a very much us in them situation, and
this comes, of course, on top of Simeon Brown, who
accused doctors of crossing an ethical line and threatening changes
(02:19):
to the law to prevent them striking, really really unhelpful.
Like you, Francesca, I have a child still at school.
I've got a daughter who's a primary school teacher. She'd
moved to Australia in a heartbeat if it went for
a shed custody arrangement she's got. And I've spent a
lot of this year in and out of public hospital,
a great deal of contact with nursing professionals, district nurses.
(02:44):
I spoke to one district nurse. She was her fourth
day in a row, working double shift because they just
don't have the staff. I suspect MP's tend to go
private hospitals. Maybe they don't have enough contact with the
public hospitals. But there is a real problem there, and
I can see why the strike action is taking place.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Are we at an impast, do you think, Liam?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yes? I mean, well, you know it's it's you always
are what what the sides want are irreconcilable, uh, and
you know one side is going to have to back
down eventually, or you know there have to be a
compromise that that's reached. But what you know reading that
letter though, again you know, just I just want to
(03:29):
emphasize how often do you have columns use the word
unions like right, it's all you know, you know, as
you as you ask your teachers, why the union has
you know, like why the union has done this? Why
the unions have done this? So yeah, there, I mean,
if they wounded an empast, we wouldn't be at this
at this at this thing. But the way through the
(03:51):
impass is often going to be, you know, who who
wins the public narrative, who can hold out against the
public right And so you know, government wanted to be
government versus unions, not government versus nurses and teachers.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's a very good point. I do you. I think
that the union did not help themselves when we're talking
about we're talking about the teachers, the PPTA, with the
Palestine issue being raised. I feel like that was an
own goal, Launa. I don't think that that was going
to advance. That is a very easy thing and it
(04:26):
comes I think in the third paragraph of that letter.
It was a very easy thing to throw out there
and go, see, the unions are not on task they're
throwing all this random, wild stuff in and look at them.
They're getting involved in politics. And I don't think they
helped themselves there. I think they dug themselves a little
whole there.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
I think most of us would read that and go,
you know, that's ridiculous that that was the first point
that was raised by the PPTA. But I see that
as a big red hearing the fact that you know,
Juridus Collins really focused on that. I think she said
plaster and several times, almost as many times as she
said union.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And we're supposed to.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Get outraged by that, but it is actually deflecting from
the biggest issue. And you've got to remember too that
you know, this comes on top of the budget where
the government made that controversial enlast minute change making industrial
and pay equity claims more difficult, halting thirty three current claims.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So there is a big.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Picture behind what is happening on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
This is turning into the double D letter deflecting and defensive.
I think we've got two very good words there. Liam.
They the government will not want these issues hanging over
them heading into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Will they were not affair on the wrong side of
public sympathy for them. Actually, you know, the history is
is that national parties do well often when there's conflict
with unions as long as unions are perceived as being
the enemies of order and progress. And that is why
the Palace Point thing is actually quite a powerful message
(05:58):
for the government to go back to, right, because that
has nothing to do with the priorities of patients or
parents of teat and so, you know, it's not a
good thing for any government to deal with. It's not
good for the for the country, but it's not necessarily
politically damaging as long as they are in front of
the message and they're able to choose their target wisely.
(06:20):
And so yeah, maybe it is a red hearing, but
you know who's who's who's to blame for that. It's
not the government.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, okay, I don't believe that this letter is going
to create the dialogue that is needed.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I don't think it's a step forward. I think it's
purely just a little bit of it. It's just more
politicing and things that just Yeah, everyone put them as
I said earlier, they're big girl and big boy pants
on and get into a room and get it sorted
for all of our sake. I think I would like
to talk about someone who finally has put their big
boy pants on, and that is Prince Andrew, who has
finally acknowledged the fact Norna, that really you cannot behave
(06:56):
appallingly for several decades with terrible behavior and really think
that you can maintain your position within the rural family.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Yeah. I don't think he's had he's put his big
boy pants on so much as someone has held him
down and forced him to put them on.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
They've pretty much stripped him of title, status and dignity.
So the life he was born to has been replaced
by a life that he is absolutely absolutely going to hate.
I guess the royal family are hoping this is going
to bring an end to the awful saga. Of course,
we've got Virginia Dufre's memoir posthumously being published this week,
(07:36):
so I don't think this is going to go away
anytime soon. I was interested too, that he hasn't formally
lost his titles the Duke of York, the Baron of
wherever it was, because apparently to do that requires an
act of Parliament, and no one wants to go there,
but he is going to be prevented from using them
publicly or privately. And I just I take some comfort
(07:58):
in the fact that he's rattling around in that thirty
room Royal Lodge with plain old Sarah Ferguson fairly friendless
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well wait and see how long he's you know, can
afford to live there and things. No, I Liam, I
think that it's slightly appalling that it has taken this
long for the royal family to act upon, like tucking
him away in a corner and things. Obviously it just
had to wait, you know, they just got to a
point where they could no longer the King could no
(08:29):
longer ignore this. I think this should have been done
a long time ago, and I think we've missed the
boat yet. I don't think they're going to be able
to own the narrative on this. I think that the
damn has burst and we're just going to get more
and more information about Prince Andrew coming forward.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, you're totally right, and I'm just to you know,
fear this is the riety's point. You know, he hasn't
He's still the Duke of York, you know, like it
don't look like he's owned that. It looks like he's
been a compromise, which is a right. Well, we're not
going to take the nucleareruption of a shoew of the
actual titles, which by the way, don't necessarily require an
neck to powerment. It could be done by the king
(09:04):
by unless you're this is a royal patient, which would
be more of a humiliation. But he sort of jumped
before he was pushed and taking sort of the lesser option.
He's still the Duke of York. He's you know, he's
just not going to refer himself to himself that way,
you know, for the time being. And look, the thing
is is that you know, in some ways I feel
(09:26):
for Prince for King Charles, and King Charles is going
through you know, cancer himself, and for pet we can
reasonably surmise that for for a long time, you know
that Prince Andrew was proticted by the mother, you know,
and not and not the king. And you know, for
all her great you know, a strengths is a monarch.
(09:46):
The Queen was was still a loving mother to Prince Andrew,
and and some sort of a favorite of hers. And
so look, you know, I say this is a royalist
is that not a royalist but a constitutional monarch. And
that's the poort of the royal family. It's it's it's
fartulay and there's not nearly enough, and so you know
that the hawk has bolted. It's too late to close
the barn door.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
When you're relinquished, you're not taking any accountability, are you.
Thank you so much to Lorna Riley and Liam here
for joining me today on the Paneltry.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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