September 20, 2025 • 9 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, Wellington Mornings host Nick Mills and broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Late-show host Jimmy Kimmel was unexpectedly pulled off the air after after he made controversial comments in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death. What do we make of this? Is this concerning for the future of free speech?
Te Pati Māori's recent scandals have prompted discussion about whether Labour should make a statement about ruling them out. Do we think they need to say anything?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talk ZEDB and joining me on the panel.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Today, we have got z B Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Nick, morning, How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm really good, Nice to talk to you. We're also
joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Good morning, Wilhelmina, Good morning, Happy Sunday.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Okay, so guys, we spoke earlier this morning to an
associate professor of law who deals with a lot with
the media in the First Amendment and things. We were
talking about this Jimmy Kimmel case and things, and he
made the point media companies need to be stronger. Individuals
need to be stronger and not about to pressure like this.
What are your thoughts on that, Nick, Well.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
I mean, obviously it's the right doing the left thing,
isn't it. I mean it was a real left thing
where you said the wrong thing, you look the wrong way,
you know, you looked at the knees instead of looking
at the eyes.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You got on yourself into trouble.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Now rights are doing it as well, because it's just
almost like the freedom of speech is gone and as
a talkback host, it scares me.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It really does scare me, because.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
You say the wrong thing, get a call from your
boss later in the afternoon, and you're gone by the morning.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's as simple as it is right now.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Have you ever had a call from your boss in
the afternoon?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Can I take the tri Matt? I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
At least you're honest about it.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What I mean? I mean you're in the media. Do
you find it concerning?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Oh, one hundred percent. I completely agree. It is a scary,
scary prospect. You know, we talk about this idea of
free speech, but the unfortunate reality is, and particularly overseas,
free speech doesn't really apply to a commercial operation. And
I want to sit here and say that media companies
they should stand up, they should push back, But ultimately
they're a business and with the current state of media,
(01:49):
they're going to take the path of least resistance. And
when I say path of lease resistance, I'm not talking
about doing that with audiences.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Doing that with decision makers. In this case, it seems
the tentacles of politics they've made this way into this
whole decision. When you look at what's happening at the top.
It was US Broadcast Media Regulator that threatened Kemel's network.
The head of WITCH is a Trump ally and has
the power to block I think it's a six point
two billion dollar merger for the company. So ultimately, unfortunately
(02:16):
it filters down to business, it filters down to the
bottom line, and it makes me, like I said before,
really sad that it's come to this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And you raise a really good point there, will I mean,
because media and journalists they pay an important role within democracy,
and yet a lot of a lot of media companies
and you have to look at us here in museum
are struggling. It is hard to stay afloat it is.
It is hard to keep going and play that role
without having this sort of pressure on top one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
You can't annoy advertisers, you can't annoy decision makers.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We're trying to be independent and.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thought leaders, but we're dancing this really delicate dance because
we're so reliant on commercial partnerships.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, Nick, you raise a really good point there
about the woke right to which is coming out. But
I've actually been really I've felt really good seeing like
Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro and Ted Cruz coming forward
and going, hang on a minute, you know, actually, this
really isn't a Democrat versus Republican issue. It's bigger than that.
It affects all of us, and none of us feel
(03:21):
that mister Kirk would have wanted his death to be
used as a pretext for crackdown on speech.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I mean, the whole thing is so so wrong.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
I mean, it's just so so wrong that you cannot
actually get up and say what you want to say.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
You've got to think about it. And you know yourself,
when you.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Turn the mic on, you're thinking two sentences ahead instead
of actually being yourself. You're thinking, can I say that?
Is that okay to say that? Will I get myself
into trouble? Saying you know, just basic stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And I don't necessarily worry about if I'm going to
get into trouble. I think we should all probably think
a little bit more before we speak, and that is
part of the job. But for me, it's more about,
you know, okay, is this common sense in my thinking here?
That's probably more at.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
The end of the day, the end of the day,
if you had had a script written to complain about
something or talk about something, and you knew that they
were a major advertiser for the station, would you go
ahead with it?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
See the silence as gold.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You can run a few trucks through there, can't you. Well,
I mean, I'm just grateful I haven't been but you know,
I mean, I'm grateful in it because I've never been
told here. I've never been told what to say. I've
never been told who to align myself with. I've never
been you know, it's never a risen.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
No, never have I been told to have an opinion
that's not my own.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And I wouldn't do that. I would not turn the
mic on and give it an opinion that's not mine.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Never ever, once have I been told say this, say that,
do this, do that. But I've also mindful that if
I said something that was a major advertiser would be
it would be a stupid thing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
To do because it's upsetting somebody.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Like sometimes I had a view on Friday, I had
a very strong view on something political, and I have
never ever, in four and a half years, copped the
abuse on the text machine like it. And that's just
that's the same thing. It's a reality. If you put
your head up, you're likely it's going to get chopped.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Have you dealt with that in the past.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Wilhelmina, Yeah, Look, I am very conscious. I would never
let it stop me from sharing an opinion. But I
also think that it's about the delivery, and I think
it's about how you package up that opinion. Have you
done your research, you know, have you got statistics, have
you got lived experience, have you spoken to people who
have perhaps experienced something that you've spoken and formed an
(05:41):
opinion about. And I think that that's what the difference
is between saying something that's really knee jerk and controversial
and something that is perhaps an opinion that not many
others agree with, but has been delivered in a really
measured way, because at the heart of it, it's about
igniting debate and discussion and having a constructive conversation. And
I don't think anyone should filter what they're saying. I
(06:01):
think it should just be about the delivery and the
time that you take to form that opinion.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
The end of the day, though, if that opinion is
not what your listeners want to hear, you can package
it up, you can research it, you can give the facts,
you can do all those things.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'd love to agree with you, but I'm sorry it's
still coming there.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
To party. Murray. My colleague, head de play Allen has
written an article, her piece in the Herald to day
and she said, look, she said, she's making the point
that center voters are not ready or are not comfortable
with having a political part and like to party Marie
an extreme left wing radical party, as she calls them,
(06:49):
helping run the country. And she's making the she's making
the point that, you know, Labor really should just rule
out running, you know, being in a coalition with the
next election. However, she also sort of says, look, there
are a couple of reasons why they might be holding off.
You know, they might want to see whether to party
Maury is going to calm down a little bit, or
whether there's enough support to win without them, and things
(07:09):
like that. Where do you stand on this, Wilhelmine. Do
you think that now is the time that Labor need
to be ruling them out or have they got that
time to just sit and wait and see how things unfold.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I think that they're obviously polling pretty well at the moment,
and I think that they have an opportunity to really
ride that high here. I think they're more likely to
pinch votes from the center by distancing themselves than they
are if they actually align themselves. And I think that
they can afford to make a bold move. I know
that they obviously are. They're not rolling it and they're
not rulling out. It's a safety blanket move. But I
(07:42):
actually think sometimes you've got to wrap the band off.
You've got to risk it to get the biscuit. And
I think that they should probably make a stand. I
think it says more by doing something and making a
decision than sitting back and you know, waiting for a
better offer, or waiting for something to happen, or waiting
just in case because they need that buffer.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I feel like Nick, these days, when it comes to
an election, we start aren't preparing for that election so
much further out than we used to, you know, like
a lot. I feel like we kind of switch into
campaign modes much earlier than we used to.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
I've got a really simplistic view on this from sitting
behind a micro on microphone fifteen hours a week.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
My view is this.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Labor is riding a wave by doing absolutely nothing. I mean,
they haven't even told us the last time they went
to the toilet. I mean, they've given us nothing, and
they're riding the rest of the crest of the wave.
Why because we're unhappy as a nation right now. We're unhappy.
We're not getting the results that we were promised. We're
not getting the Champagne as quickly. And we all know
(08:45):
the reasons why. We all know it's still coming, and
we all know that. So labor are not going to
do a damn thing. Well, they're riding the wave.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
If they make one move.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
It's a bit like Andrew Little going for the mayoralty
and Warrington what day is it? Oh, I'm not sure
I could answer that question, you know what I mean.
They just they know that they know that they're on
that wave, going to sit there and ride up to
the last moment. And I think they're very very wise,
very very wise to say nothing, do nothing. Don't agree
with some of the outlandist, crazy activist things at both parties,
(09:18):
both parties they have to join, whether as crazy as
each other. I mean, and National can sit back and
Nicole Listen can sit back and say, well, by the way,
look at the alternative and we'll go Oh yeah, let's
get back in the line.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
They're not doing nothing. Chris Hopkins called for the resignations
in the entire government on Friday. Ain't there you go there?
I just thought that was hilarious. I was like, already
a mine, my friend, Nick. They've just handed you a
really easy hit on a plate and that's what you
came up with anyway. Wilhelmina Shrimpton and Nick Mills, thank
you very much for joining us on the panel.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudken, listen
live to news Talks they'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talk ZEDB and joining me on the panel.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Today, we have got z B Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Nick, morning, How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm really good, Nice to talk to you. We're also
joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Good morning, Wilhelmina, Good morning, Happy Sunday.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Okay, so guys, we spoke earlier this morning to an
associate professor of law who deals with a lot with
the media in the First Amendment and things. We were
talking about this Jimmy Kimmel case and things, and he
made the point media companies need to be stronger. Individuals
need to be stronger and not about to pressure like this.
What are your thoughts on that, Nick, Well.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
I mean, obviously it's the right doing the left thing,
isn't it. I mean it was a real left thing
where you said the wrong thing, you look the wrong way,
you know, you looked at the knees instead of looking
at the eyes.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You got on yourself into trouble.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Now rights are doing it as well, because it's just
almost like the freedom of speech is gone and as
a talkback host, it scares me.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It really does scare me, because.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
You say the wrong thing, get a call from your
boss later in the afternoon, and you're gone by the morning.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's as simple as it is right now.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Have you ever had a call from your boss in
the afternoon?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Can I take the tri Matt? I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
At least you're honest about it.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What I mean? I mean you're in the media. Do
you find it concerning?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Oh, one hundred percent. I completely agree. It is a scary,
scary prospect. You know, we talk about this idea of
free speech, but the unfortunate reality is, and particularly overseas,
free speech doesn't really apply to a commercial operation. And
I want to sit here and say that media companies
they should stand up, they should push back, But ultimately
they're a business and with the current state of media,
(01:49):
they're going to take the path of least resistance. And
when I say path of lease resistance, I'm not talking
about doing that with audiences.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Doing that with decision makers. In this case, it seems
the tentacles of politics they've made this way into this
whole decision. When you look at what's happening at the top.
It was US Broadcast Media Regulator that threatened Kemel's network.
The head of WITCH is a Trump ally and has
the power to block I think it's a six point
two billion dollar merger for the company. So ultimately, unfortunately
(02:16):
it filters down to business, it filters down to the
bottom line, and it makes me, like I said before,
really sad that it's come to this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And you raise a really good point there, will I mean,
because media and journalists they pay an important role within democracy,
and yet a lot of a lot of media companies
and you have to look at us here in museum
are struggling. It is hard to stay afloat it is.
It is hard to keep going and play that role
without having this sort of pressure on top one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
You can't annoy advertisers, you can't annoy decision makers.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We're trying to be independent and.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thought leaders, but we're dancing this really delicate dance because
we're so reliant on commercial partnerships.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, Nick, you raise a really good point there
about the woke right to which is coming out. But
I've actually been really I've felt really good seeing like
Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro and Ted Cruz coming forward
and going, hang on a minute, you know, actually, this
really isn't a Democrat versus Republican issue. It's bigger than that.
It affects all of us, and none of us feel
(03:21):
that mister Kirk would have wanted his death to be
used as a pretext for crackdown on speech.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I mean, the whole thing is so so wrong.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
I mean, it's just so so wrong that you cannot
actually get up and say what you want to say.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
You've got to think about it. And you know yourself,
when you.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Turn the mic on, you're thinking two sentences ahead instead
of actually being yourself. You're thinking, can I say that?
Is that okay to say that? Will I get myself
into trouble? Saying you know, just basic stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And I don't necessarily worry about if I'm going to
get into trouble. I think we should all probably think
a little bit more before we speak, and that is
part of the job. But for me, it's more about,
you know, okay, is this common sense in my thinking here?
That's probably more at.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
The end of the day, the end of the day,
if you had had a script written to complain about
something or talk about something, and you knew that they
were a major advertiser for the station, would you go
ahead with it?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
See the silence as gold.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You can run a few trucks through there, can't you. Well,
I mean, I'm just grateful I haven't been but you know,
I mean, I'm grateful in it because I've never been
told here. I've never been told what to say. I've
never been told who to align myself with. I've never
been you know, it's never a risen.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
No, never have I been told to have an opinion
that's not my own.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And I wouldn't do that. I would not turn the
mic on and give it an opinion that's not mine.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Never ever, once have I been told say this, say that,
do this, do that. But I've also mindful that if
I said something that was a major advertiser would be
it would be a stupid thing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
To do because it's upsetting somebody.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Like sometimes I had a view on Friday, I had
a very strong view on something political, and I have
never ever, in four and a half years, copped the
abuse on the text machine like it. And that's just
that's the same thing. It's a reality. If you put
your head up, you're likely it's going to get chopped.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Have you dealt with that in the past.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Wilhelmina, Yeah, Look, I am very conscious. I would never
let it stop me from sharing an opinion. But I
also think that it's about the delivery, and I think
it's about how you package up that opinion. Have you
done your research, you know, have you got statistics, have
you got lived experience, have you spoken to people who
have perhaps experienced something that you've spoken and formed an
(05:41):
opinion about. And I think that that's what the difference
is between saying something that's really knee jerk and controversial
and something that is perhaps an opinion that not many
others agree with, but has been delivered in a really
measured way, because at the heart of it, it's about
igniting debate and discussion and having a constructive conversation. And
I don't think anyone should filter what they're saying. I
(06:01):
think it should just be about the delivery and the
time that you take to form that opinion.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
The end of the day, though, if that opinion is
not what your listeners want to hear, you can package
it up, you can research it, you can give the facts,
you can do all those things.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'd love to agree with you, but I'm sorry it's
still coming there.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
To party. Murray. My colleague, head de play Allen has
written an article, her piece in the Herald to day
and she said, look, she said, she's making the point
that center voters are not ready or are not comfortable
with having a political part and like to party Marie
an extreme left wing radical party, as she calls them,
(06:49):
helping run the country. And she's making the she's making
the point that, you know, Labor really should just rule
out running, you know, being in a coalition with the
next election. However, she also sort of says, look, there
are a couple of reasons why they might be holding off.
You know, they might want to see whether to party
Maury is going to calm down a little bit, or
whether there's enough support to win without them, and things
(07:09):
like that. Where do you stand on this, Wilhelmine. Do
you think that now is the time that Labor need
to be ruling them out or have they got that
time to just sit and wait and see how things unfold.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I think that they're obviously polling pretty well at the moment,
and I think that they have an opportunity to really
ride that high here. I think they're more likely to
pinch votes from the center by distancing themselves than they
are if they actually align themselves. And I think that
they can afford to make a bold move. I know
that they obviously are. They're not rolling it and they're
not rulling out. It's a safety blanket move. But I
(07:42):
actually think sometimes you've got to wrap the band off.
You've got to risk it to get the biscuit. And
I think that they should probably make a stand. I
think it says more by doing something and making a
decision than sitting back and you know, waiting for a
better offer, or waiting for something to happen, or waiting
just in case because they need that buffer.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I feel like Nick, these days, when it comes to
an election, we start aren't preparing for that election so
much further out than we used to, you know, like
a lot. I feel like we kind of switch into
campaign modes much earlier than we used to.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
I've got a really simplistic view on this from sitting
behind a micro on microphone fifteen hours a week.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
My view is this.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Labor is riding a wave by doing absolutely nothing. I mean,
they haven't even told us the last time they went
to the toilet. I mean, they've given us nothing, and
they're riding the rest of the crest of the wave.
Why because we're unhappy as a nation right now. We're unhappy.
We're not getting the results that we were promised. We're
not getting the Champagne as quickly. And we all know
(08:45):
the reasons why. We all know it's still coming, and
we all know that. So labor are not going to
do a damn thing. Well, they're riding the wave.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
If they make one move.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
It's a bit like Andrew Little going for the mayoralty
and Warrington what day is it? Oh, I'm not sure
I could answer that question, you know what I mean.
They just they know that they know that they're on
that wave, going to sit there and ride up to
the last moment. And I think they're very very wise,
very very wise to say nothing, do nothing. Don't agree
with some of the outlandist, crazy activist things at both parties,
(09:18):
both parties they have to join, whether as crazy as
each other. I mean, and National can sit back and
Nicole Listen can sit back and say, well, by the way,
look at the alternative and we'll go Oh yeah, let's
get back in the line.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
They're not doing nothing. Chris Hopkins called for the resignations
in the entire government on Friday. Ain't there you go there?
I just thought that was hilarious. I was like, already
a mine, my friend, Nick. They've just handed you a
really easy hit on a plate and that's what you
came up with anyway. Wilhelmina Shrimpton and Nick Mills, thank
you very much for joining us on the panel.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudken, listen
live to news Talks they'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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