The Sunday Panel: Trump v Musk - who are we more concerned about?

This week on the Sunday Panel, Broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton and resident economist at Opes Partners Ed McKnight joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the week - and more!

We've seen a lot of sweeping changes coming out of the White House, with Donald Trump and Elon Musk making headlines over their controversial decisions impacting the nation. Who are we more concerned about?

A controversial rule change to in-store Instant Kiwi ‘scratch tickets’ means players won’t know if the big prize money is still available unless they ask. Do we agree with this - or does it put consumers at risk? Do we still buy scratchies? 

Early-bird clubbing sessions - a gen x dance party is taking the US by storm where older clubbers can go out at 6pm and be home by 10pm. Do we see this taking off in New Zealand?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
And joining me today on the Sunday Session Panel, broadcaster
and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Good morning, and resident economist at
Ope's partners Ed mcnight. How are you, ed.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
We're doing well, Francesca. Great to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm very pleased to hear right. We have seen a
lot of very swift action out of the White House
since Donald Trump came into power a few weeks ago,
a lot of headlines around both President Trump and Elon Musk.
My question for you this morning, Wilhelmina, is who are
you keeping a closer eye on? Who concerns you the
most out of those two.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah, look, what a wild time to be in the US,
and what a wild time to be alive, just in
general with everything going on. I think, out of the two,
both are outrageous. But I definitely think I've got my
eye closer on Musk. He seems to be a little
bit more unhinged, maybe more unpredictable, and I think we'll
both come with massive following, huge financial resources. Musks outstrips

(01:08):
Trump's by far. I think he's got two hundred million
plus followers on social media compared to Trump eight.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
To ten million.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
You know, he's the richest man in the world, four
hundred worth, four hundred billion US dollars. I just feel
like he has so much resours and so much weight
behind him. And there's a quote that I think ring's
really true. I think that even while Trump might be
the head of the White House, I suspect that Musk
could potentially end up being the neck and he can
turn the head whichever way he wants, which is worrying.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Trump would be disappointed in that view. Well, I mean,
but of course there was that time of course everyone's
spoking about the time cover as well ed which has
Elon Musk sitting behind the President's desk, which the president
claims he's pretty blaxed about.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Here he is.

Speaker 5 (01:51):
And what I have to say is, if you're a
publican right now, if you're a Trump voter, you'd be
really happy because there's been a lot of swift action
and people are saying, well, this is exactly what we
voted for.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Now.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
The big thing with Musk's government of or sorry, Department
of government efficiency is whether that actually turns into something
a bit more. They're talking a big game about saving
a lot of money. We haven't said a lot of
savings yet because it's early days. So what I'm keeping
my eye on is the relationship between Musk and Trump.
So Trump's saying, look, if Elon tries to do anything

(02:23):
a bit too weird, look we'll make sure that doesn't happen.
So I'm keeping my eye on the relationship between them
and what sort of policies actually get implemented it.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
As an economist, do you think that it's a good
idea for governments to have a government of efficiency?

Speaker 3 (02:39):
As a general principle, you'd have to say yes, because
the governments are so enormous.

Speaker 5 (02:44):
You've got to understand that the deficit of the US
government is enormous at the moment, over a trillion dollars USD.
It is an insane amount of money. And so saying,
look are there some efficiencies in there? Can we save
a bit of money? I think that's probably a good idea. Overall,
what Trump's probably trying to do is decrease spending so

(03:05):
that he can get through through his text caps that
he wants to put in place, or rather he doesn't
want the ones he's already put in place to be
taken away.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Will Amina. It is a really interesting relationship for us too,
from a far sort of observant things.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
At first I was like, well, I'm more concerned about
Elon Musk. He's not elected, he's been put in there.
He doesn't have to get votes next time. But of
course this is President Trump's last opportunity to be president
as well, so he has nothing to lose. They're both
kind of going to be free wheeling with this, you know,
we'll wait, We'll wait and see how everything pans out.
Of course, a lot of things are being held up
now in the courts. I'd like to talk to the

(03:41):
two of you about Lotto as well, selling instant keepwee
tickets with no chance of winning the big prize. So
this is a controversial rule change. I don't know how
often you pick up a scratchy willemina, but would you
pick it up if you knew that the big prize,
the big money prize, has actually already been won and
you don't have a chance to win it.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Look, my mother in law puts scratches in all of
our Christmas cracky every Christmas day, and I think this
really actually explained why no one won a single thing,
because probably the big prizes had already disappeared. Not that
I've ever won a scratchy in my life, I do
think it's a little cheeky, and the interest of actually
maintaining trust for consumers, I think it would be better
for them to actually maybe publicly display that information. You know,

(04:23):
you know, they can still obviously sell them, but I
think that as long as that information is displayed and
then a consumer or a customer can make an informed
decision before actually buying, because ultimately people lose trust. If
they find that out, they could stop buying. And I
guess we've got to remember as well as that a
large proportion of the money that goes to the Lotteries
Commission through the sales of things like a lot of
tickets and scratchyes, goes back into communities. If people lose

(04:45):
trust and then they stop buying, then there's less money
to go around. So I think it's just about being
really forthcoming with information and you know, having that trusting
relationship with your customers. It's kind of a bit sneaky,
I think.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think, well, I mean, it's kind of hit that
on the head there. It is a bit cheeky, but
if you're honest and open about the process and how
it works, then you know, at least we're not thronging
a whole lot of old scratches in the bin.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well. Actually, I take a slightly different view.

Speaker 5 (05:11):
I can't believe that this was ever policy that they
would take these tickets out, because the way that they
pay for the big prizes is by selling lots and
lots of tickets that don't end up winning, and that
is the reason why the margins for Lotto end Z
for Instant Kiwi tickets is a lot lower. If you
look at how much money they pay out for every

(05:31):
dollar loto en Z collects overall, they pay out fifty
four cents, So if you put one hundred dollars into Lotto,
you're going to get it, on average fifty four dollars back.
But Instant Kiwi tickets historically have actually paid out more
to consumers because they've had this policy, and so I
think this is probably a move to try and increase
their margins. But I can't believe they ever had this policy.

(05:54):
Of course, they should be selling those tickets because that's
how they fund the big prizes, you put.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
The money spin on it. There we go, right. I
was absolutely delighted to read an article talking about early
birds club about these early bird clubs, so basically this
is for people probably slightly younger than I am, but
I'm all in, I'm really keen for this to go
out dancing really early and end at about ten o'clock.

(06:22):
Because of course, every young person knows that you don't
go to town to go dancing until about eleven or twelve.
You know, that kind of world starts really late. But
of course you get a little bit older and you
know you have to get up and go to work
the next day, but you still love to dance. You
don't do it anymore. So these clubs are saying to people, hey, look,
come on in, come on and at six, you're home.
At ten, come and have a dance and a night out.

(06:44):
How good's that? I think this is a brilliant idea,
will Deemina, Oh huge vibe.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
I'm a big fan of a bit of a day party.
Start early, finish early, but often I say that during
the daytime and then I'll end up dragging myself and
you know, through the front door at two or three am,
regretting my life choices, but I think it's great. Start early,
finish early, get a good eight or nine hours sleep
past towards I think it's I think it's a great thing.

(07:09):
And also as summertime, we've got to make the most
of the sunshine. I know it's it's lighter until later,
but we've got to make the most of the day.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Bless you, Willelmina. I think you're just sort of kind
of being very kind to me, being slightly older than you,
going this is awesome. Let's go dancing at sex and
behind my dead I think you're just being very sweet
there are you? Are you still able to go out
to two.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Am in the morning?

Speaker 5 (07:32):
If you're talking to me two years ago, I would
have said yes, I was still allowed at two am
three am, But I have really changed over the last
couple of years. Francesca, I'd be out with you at
six pm on the dance floor. One thing i'd just
say about some of these parties at the moment, they're
not open to CIS men, and so i'd love to
see if we ever did this at New Zealand, that
it was opened up to all genders and people.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
I wouldn't be putting any restrictions on it. I'd be like,
if you want to dance, you can come and dance,
doesn't matter how you dance. I used to go to
dancing in the dark. Have you ever heard of that?

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Oh, tell us about it?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Okay. So basically that these would be held in hall
around Auckland and they would black them out. These would
also be at like seven or eight o'clock a seven
or eight pm, and you go in and they completely
black them out and you're not allowed to even poll
out your cell phone and have it, you know, and
have the cell phone light. They'd have really awesome DJs
and you dance for an hour and an hour and
a half in the dark and then go home. So

(08:25):
do you not take an eye out?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
No?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
No, no, I don't know. Somehow everyone just seems to
work out their little personal space. So you can just
let loose and dances badly as you want to, really
good music and have a good time and then go
home and go hire. Don't really care. No one saw me,
didn't matter how badly I dance, How good's that? How
good dance?

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Like no one's watching because no one actually can.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, sounds good.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, it used to get a bit tricky, guys when
you would be trying to find the bathrooms at the
back of the hall. It would dare that would be
a bit awkward, but crawling around walls, but we got
there in the end. Well, Amina and Ed McKnight. Lovely
to have you with us. Yeah, I got the feeling
that Ed would probably be out dancing with me early,
but I think Wilhelmine is still got a bit of

(09:14):
nightlife yet.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.