September 22, 2024 • 40 mins
Most people have an automatic contribution sent into their KiwiSaver at the end of their pay period - but experts say everyone should do an annual check on their accounts.
It's recommended that contributors check if they should change their plan or provider before or after a big life event.
Ben Brinkerhoff is the Head of Advice at Consilium and he joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sedb it.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
But it don't too far because you know it don't
matter anyway, So money money won't get your no barget
too far.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To take.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
What is.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
This is on?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I started talking before I was really ready. There, Welcome
back to the Weekend Collective. This is smart Money. I'm
Tim Beverage. And if you've missed any of the previous hours,
we had Jude Walter in just now for the Health
Up talking about keeping your brain active and fit and
healthy and avoiding stress and just basically keeping your cognitive
health on top. So if you want to listen to
you that, go and check out the podcast. iHeartRadio, look
(01:02):
for the Weekend Collective and for politics, we had an
interview with well Shane Rettie was chatting about nitrous oxide
and how they're clamping down on it. Every time I
think not nutro soxide, I we think of Steve Martin
and as the dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors.
But anyway, the clamping down on nitrosoxide recreationally speaking. But
also we had a chat with Simon Carter as the
(01:23):
Poletry Undersecretary to the Ministry for rom Reform about basically
they're throwing it out and they're going to start again.
Well they have started, and yeah, rom Reform. If you
want to check that out, listen to our podcast. So
but right now it's time for smart money. And my
guest is he's head of advice at Concilium. You can
(01:45):
go and check out their their worker anytime Concilium dot
co dot nz or the Kiwi save a funders Kiwi
rap as in wrapping a present dot co dot nz.
And he is Ben Brinkerhoff.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Gid a Ben.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
How are you going good?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How are you not too bad? Nice to thank you
for coming into the studio.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Good to see you. It's good to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
What's been keeping you out of mischief.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And the money scene?
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I mean, but it's a strange way to put a question.
It sort of is.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I think the best way to stay out of trouble
is to read the newspaper as little as possible, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I might just get you to just pull your microphone
just a little closer there, So there we go, there
we go. We want to talk about key we saver
a bit because for many people when it comes to
the financial investment it's sort of a default thing where
people they're investing in all sorts of things without knowing
it and people, I mean, yeah, so if you've got look,
(02:37):
we're going to talk about key we saver from a
whole bunch of angles as to how often you should
monitor the performance of your key we save it you
just put it away and forget it does past performance?
For instance, you look at someone and go, man, they
have an amazing key we save a fund. Should I
stick my money with them? All those sorts of things
Key we saver it actually, ben how often do you
(02:57):
think people actually look at the performance of their key
we save or is it best? Is it best just
to sort of put it in the bottom drawer and
maybe look at it every so six months.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We'll side that. That's a question with a couple of layers.
But let me just peel back a couple.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
There's an awesome paper written in the past called myopic
lossid version, and my opic just means short.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I'm going to write that down myopic myopic that's short
loss a version, right, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And the premise of this paper was that basically people's
point of view is very short sighted. That's what myopic
means is short sighted. And the more short sighted your
view of your performance is, the more likely you are
to make bad decisions. And so I wrote a paper
once called It's Okay to look Away, Yeah, and I
(03:47):
wrote it during the COVID time period, where was pretty challenging.
And the other waying premise was don't look at your
account balance. You want to set things up to be
done correctly. You should maybe review it once a year,
and I think you should view with an advisor and
(04:07):
determine if you're on track to achieve your goals or
if your goals have changed, if your strategy needs to change.
All that's good stuff, right, But looking at your key
saver balance regularly is more likely to lead you to
make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, it's like it's like, if you're buying and selling
shares and it was your hobby to do your own
make your own choices, probably following them every day wouldn't
necessarily lead you to the right decisions. Of course, then again,
if they suddenly went up in value a lot, it
would have been useful to follow them. But that's not
the game.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Machan, the number one person that looks at car ads
car sellers, people that just bought a car or really, yeah,
so you just buy a car and you're looking at ads,
why just to make sure you've got a good deal.
I think when people make when they change their investments around,
they're going to look at them a lot, decide to
make a good choice and make a bad choice. I
(04:55):
think it leads to a lot of people being unsettled overall.
I don't think looking at your key saver balance that
often no idea.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Are there actually investments it does if you are taking
hands on approach, are there investments where it does pay
to keep a regular eye on them? Because of course,
key that's the thing with key we Saver people aren't
key we Saber managers because they're idiots. They are on
the job for you all the time. But whereas I guess,
if you are managing your own personal, individualized investments, then
(05:27):
obviously you're you're going to keep an eye on that.
For instance, if you're you're choosing your own stocks in
the share market, you've got ten companies that you've invested in,
you probably will monitor their performance more regularly. But that's
a completely different game, isn't It's a.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Completely different game. And by the way, don't don't don't
do that. Don't don't that you're Key we saver balance
on ten stocks.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I No, I wasn't saying that. I'm just talking about
different the reasons you might keep an eye on your
investor totally.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
If you're in and yet and they're in that kind
of situation and you are basically the manager of your
own investments, yeah, then maybe maybe it makes sense, you know,
But I just suggest that that the key Saver is
one area where we're diversification and maybe taking a different approach.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Piece are You've raised a couple of things there which
I might I wouldn't mind digging into, because how many
people do you think actually have a goal with the
key we save it? And and the reason I asked
that is because we generally have If you are an employee,
your employer may put in I'm not sure what the
(06:31):
rules are because I'm self employed, which is, let's not
dig into that, but say three percent or something or
two or three percent. And I wonder if people just
sort of go, well, this is what Key we Saver
it does, and I've got this amount, but they don't
actually ever stop to think what the goal is. They
just know that there's money going in that.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Oh you've hit I don't know if you if you
thought about that too much ahead of time, but you've
actually completely hit on the issue is that with keysaver,
you want to have, you want to be intentional, what
do you actually want to achieve? And you think about
you don't have a huge number of choices to make
(07:08):
in kiv saver, but boy that it can be dramatic
the impact of the choices that you make over maybe
a twenty thirty, maybe a forty year time arise. And
if you start when you're twenty five, you cash out
when you're sixty five, that is a long time for
those choices to compound. And I'm American, right, so, for
(07:28):
for better or for worse, I tend to be overly
friendly with people. And I'm on I'm on the airplane
and I'm asking I ask people what they're doing in
their kiwisaver, and they are you California?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I am California because you can check out, but you
can never leave.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Let's not get into the deep spiritual sense.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
That's on California.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, anyway.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Carry on well, and you talk to people about kivsaver
and you say, well, based on what you want to
spend in your future, what amount of what you need
is ever we're going to cover? You know, is it
going to cover forty percent of what you need? Is
it going to cover sixty percent of what you need?
Is it going to cover everything that you need? And
(08:13):
what's your plan to fund the difference?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I reckon people find that, and I'm probably speaking personally
as well, there's a part of I think there's a
huge amount of I'm not sure if the word is
procrastination or avoidance, because people don't want to know what
that means when they set their goal this is what
I want, It's like, well, this is how far away
from that you are? How often do people avoid it
because they just you know, we're living in high we've
(08:41):
been living in under high inflation. The costs of buying
a house is people who are pessimistic about a bunch
of things. I reckon, a lot of people put that
stuff in the bottom drawn. That's why they just leave
it to the employer contribution and whatever they have to
stick in and go to sleep.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
You know that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, listen, you know, if you don't have a plan,
You'll get somewhere. It just may not be where you intended.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Right, So sounds like that, it sounds like a lyric
from that song again, But it's probably not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
As long as that's an acceptable outcome, that you you
end up where you ended up, and perhaps that's okay
because you wouldn't have known the difference. But when you
actually know where you want, or you have an idea
of what you want. I talk to some people sometimes
and they're just desperate because they think I'm not going
to be successful. I've I've waited too long. It's it's
(09:30):
it's passed me by. But but you can actually sit
down and still form a strategy and people can go
from maybe hopeless to go like, you know, this might
actually work out.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And I says something to be said for even if
you know maybe it's not the answer you want, the
fact of taking control of your finances, it's actually in
its own right, no matter how good or bad the
outcome is, there's something about it that is actually liberating
because you're finally in control and you know what you're
doing absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You feel you feel like, well, this is where I'm
at and I'm not in denial anymore, and I actually
have a strategy to make the best out of the
choices I have left.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
We Actually, i'd like to hear from you on this.
I eight one hundred eighty t and eighty. Have you
stopped to think of a particular financial goal or do
you sort of just do different things, Like I'll stick
a bit of extra money into ki we sab because
I think I need to save some more, But you
have no idea what that's going to amount to in
the end. You just sort of think this is what
I'm going to do because I think I should. It's
(10:29):
but like people want to buy get into the residential
property market, they may not have the actual financial goal
in mind, but they'll go, well, apparently this is the
place to be. So I'm going to stick some money
in because I should. I'm actually quite curee I'll be
cursed to know how many people actually have a goal.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I ran the numbers recently, and well, if you took
like a thirty year old and I know that this
sounds like like a big salary, but I want to
think about it from the sink of a professional, because
that was the audience I was thinking about. A thirty
year old who was on one hundred thousand dollars a
year and just put in three percent. Poor, you're putting
three percent and you know, saved age sixty five. That
person ended up some way. If you look at the math,
(11:08):
like at three hundred ffty thousand dollars balance, but at that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Same person's going to be bitter them that you just said,
Actually I thought that was going to be I was
surprised at what it was that much.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Three and fifty thousand dollars balance. It isn't as much
as it should be because you know that's that's three
and fifty thousand and thirty five years from now. What's
the purchasing power of that. It's not as great as
it sounds. It's maybe half of what it is now.
If that same person allocated into an aggressive portfolio and
put in six percent, they'd end up with three or
(11:38):
four times the balance. You know, that's that's a life
altering difference to end up with three hundred thousand, to
end up with one point two million, And those two
outcomes are both possible for the thirty year old who's
who's a high earner based on just increasing their personal
contributions and allocating more aggressively, course, more aggressively. You allocied,
(12:02):
there's gonna be ups and downs. We can talk about
that later if you well, I'd love to talk about that. Actually,
I would love to know what you wanted. Of course, Ben,
he's got a few clues about investing. In fact, the
last time I on the show, there are a couple
of things that you said that really did stick with me.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
So you did well there.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
But Brent Ben Brenkerhoff is my guest. He's head of
advice at Concilium. You can check out Concilium dot code
on ZID. They also have their own Keiwi Saber Fund,
which is key we rap as in wrapping a present
dot code dot nz. We'd like to take your calls
any questions you've got about Kiwi Saber and Ben and
I have lots to talk about. So we'll be back
in just a moment. It's so eighteen minutes past five
(12:39):
news talks.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
He'd be and welcome back.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
My guest is Ben Bronkohoff, head of advice at Concilium.
Actually I say Concilium, Ben, just quickly, what does Concilium do?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
What's your bag?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Baby?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So Concilium's job is basically to help independent advisors stay independent.
So we provide a lot of the services, consulting, a
lot of the research and software required for an independent advisor,
not out to sell someone's stuff.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
So excellent.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
So, look, we've got a lot of questions about can
we say we went to the break just with the
questions around aggressive funds? And I mean there are generally
three types of fund are there is three or four?
There's conservative, balanced and aggressive and maybe there's somewhere but.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
There's there's some nuancewers there ten but you you can
stick with those if you want.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay, So aggressive, you were talking about over a you know,
say a thirty year old decides they're going to stick
a certain percentagen and the difference between being in a
more conservative fund to aggressive and the potential money that
they could end up having. I guess the first question
would be over what time period? So aggressive? Obviously you
are more susceptible to the rises and the falls in
(13:47):
the market. So is there a time period where the
risks of being in an aggressive fund are at at
a point where you know what, you're okay, if you're
in this for ten years, don't worry, or five years
or what's the sort of minimum time to be in
an aggressive fund. Yeah, so not spific.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I think people that invest in keV saver mess this up,
and I'll tell you how they mess it up because
they think I'm going to reach sixty five and then oh,
I got ten years until sixty five. Therefore my time
arison is ten years. I'm fifty five. Well, no, when
do you want to spend the money? Your time horizon
is not based on when you reach the age of
the that you can pull the money out. Your time
(14:27):
horizon should be the time until you spend down the money,
and if you have fifteen years, then you can then aggressive.
An aggressive allocation is perfectly fine, but it's actually more
nuanced of that. And let me explain this. When you
are saving regularly right that means money's going in every
couple of weeks right from your paycheck, then being in
(14:49):
an aggressive allocation makes a lot of sense typically because
if prices are down and you're a buyer, that's good. Yeah,
so I want you. I want to give everyone in
the mind if they're in KIV saver right now, they're
regularly contributing.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
They're a buyer.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
If there was a recession and prices went down, they're
not harmed because they're buying at low prices. Now who
are they buying from. They're buying from people that are selling. Yeah, well,
if if there's a recession of prices are down, you're
a seller, that's a lot more harmful. So when you're
become when you transition from becoming a buyer and you
become a seller, you want to have some securities in
(15:25):
your portfolio that you can sell that aren't very price sensitive,
cash term deposits, fixed interest, things like this, so that
when prices are down, you're not forced to sell at
low prices. But if you're buying them, you're buying every
couple of weeks and prices are low because of recession,
the stock markets are down, and that doesn't harm you
very much because you're buying at low prices.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So what I'm hearing there is if I was what
even my fund is, Let's let's pretend I'm in a
conservative fund and we should aggressive, we should talk. I'm
not in a concert fund, don't worry. I'm in balance.
But I'm a bit passive on this because you know,
mortgages and all sorts of cost of expence. So I
haven't been a great contributor. I'm hearing that right now.
(16:09):
The GDP data and all that sort of data data
is we're not rocking and rolling as an economy at
the moment. So intuitally, what I just heard you say
is probably now is a good time to switch to
an aggressive fund. Yeah, I believe I've got enough time.
What is it fifteen years?
Speaker 6 (16:27):
You say?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, I kind of think about fifteen years if you're
an aggressive portfolio, that would be ninety percent or more
in shares as opposed to cash and bonds and things.
So if you have that kind of time horizon. Now,
I think the idea of when you should be in
and we should get out is really tricky because the
share market is a prediction. It's a prediction of future prices,
(16:50):
so it's really hard to know when to get in
and when to get out.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And you are reminding me of our earlier conversation as well,
because it was about people watching the shear market and
thinking when's a good time to buy, and you are like,
the market is always going to be ahead of you.
Speaker 6 (17:02):
Buddy, That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
So I don't think that that's a good idea, but
I do think that when people are regularly buying, they
they're partially insulated from the effects of down markets because
if the markets are down, then they can purchase at
low prices and that helps to blunt the effect of
those low prices.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
But if you're constantly buying, you're also buying when the
market is inflated as well.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
That's right, but no one cares. When the market's in flavor,
they're super happy because they look at their balance and
there they're an aggressive allocation and it's it's done really well,
So psychologically.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
They are they're happy.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The problem with us that with the idea of when
the market's high is the market, over any length of
time generally trends one direction, so it's always going to
go get higher. So the idea when it's high, if
it's at an all time high, does that mean it's
going to fall? No, that doesn't mean that at all.
It's very hard to know these things.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Because the issue that you've.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Maybe touched on is it's one thing to decide when
you're going to get into an aggressive fund. And I
guess the answer is as early as possible.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
That's the answer.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Okay, as possible that that is the answer.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
You know, but of course I listen.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
This isn't advice and not if someone someone, if someone
is has a has a frame of mind that when
markets are volatile they really lose sleep and it's highly
uncomfortable for them, then they should understand that that they
can go more conservative to balance or a conservative but
the implication of is that they will likely, over a
(18:32):
long period of time end up with less money. So
here's the tension.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
What is risk?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Is risk the fear or the risk of prices going
up and down a little bit or even a lot
over a short term time period. Or is risk that
I might not have as much money as I want
when I want to spend it.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You know that that is what is risk? Well, actually
that is also inadvertently. There's another question that comes out
of that is we all understand risk in our own
lay person sort of way, like I might hear aggressive
fund is more risky. But do I really have any
(19:13):
idea what the actual risk is and what that means
because we all just have our own subjective Because some
of us I've got I mean, I've got a maide
of mine who's I produce concerts from time to time,
and I consider that pretty risky?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
What a mine?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Who does it all the time? And he will have
moments where he thinks, oh, that's not very risky. That
would terrify someone else. So his perception of risk is
completely different. So how can we, ever, as key we
savor investors, which most of it many of us are,
How can we really understand what the risk is because
it's almost Some people might think, okay, you've got conservative.
(19:50):
Let's just pretend there's three. We've got conservative, balanced and
aggressive and aggressive. His picture is more risky and some
people will see that as being that's a bit more risky,
but what the hell other people be thinking it's a
lot more risky.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
There's no way.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So how do we under stand what risk is? And
can we Saiva?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, the number one thing I think you should do
is get an advisor, right because the ultimately what you're
trying to solve, the question you're trying to ask is
is the two types of risk I'm trying to trade
off is the risk of price movements to go up
and down, and that makes me uncomfortable when so when
markets go down, how much is my portfolio likely to
(20:29):
go down?
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Or could it go down?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But the other risk that no one ever talks about,
or pays attention to, or knows intuitively, is what's the
risk that I won't be able to spend what I
want to spend when I want to spend it. And
what's the risk that's actually the more salient risk of
the two price movements? You know, does anyone care now
what price movements were ten or twenty years ago? Yet
your allocation to growth stocks ten or twenty years ago
(20:53):
would have a big impact on how much money you
have available today to spend if you want to start
spending today.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Drill into one more question. I'm dying to ask that
about that even the you've sort of probably answered a
question if you know how with statistics there's a bell curve. Yeah,
and at the fringes, you know, the majority of action
takes place in the middle, sort of thirty forty percent
or whatever. When it comes to key we savor portfolios
are any of the risks at the extreme of the
(21:24):
spectrum where they are either extremely conservative or extremely risky,
or are they all sort of more within a narrower band.
If you're talking about conservative, balanced growth, and aggressive.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You absolutely can take a kV server allocation that can
be at the ends of those those you can you
can be virtually all in cash or you can be
virtually all in just a few shares, depending on the
keV server that you're thinking about. So yeah, there's a
wide spectrum. But the question you should be asking yourself
is does the allocation I'm in is it likely to
(22:01):
achieve what I want?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And how do you know?
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I think?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think, I think for most people they need to
get advice. But if you don't want to get advice,
you certainly avail yourself with the tools on sordid dot
co dot nz and and take and take those sorts
of tools available to you. But like on our website
kivi RAP, we have a list of advisors you can
go to. All these people give advice on retirement portfolios
and it's good and those are the kind of people
(22:26):
you might How does figure out what you want? Most
people don't even know what they want, tim So it's
like the question is very difficult to answer. They say, well, well,
I have enough, Well I don't even know what I need.
I don't I mean, how do I how do I
even get to think about the question I I if
I have enough? Or mine I'm going to be funded
through Kiwisaver. There's so many questions you need to answer
(22:46):
even before that, questions relevant how does it go.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
With Actually I've just gone on to your the Kiwi
rap site that you guys have for your kiwisaver, and
it says find an advisor And my head's spinning because
there's a lot on there. So you know, how do
you how do you make a choice there? And and
how does it work with the funcial advisor? Because I
have had people who are personal personal financial advisors who say,
(23:11):
to be honest, it's expensive sometimes if you want to
get personalized financial advice, how does it work?
Speaker 6 (23:18):
Well, I have a lot to say about that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well that's good because we're here to talk.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
So see.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You know, advice is not a commodity. It varies widely
in quality, and I understand how intimidating that is. You know,
so you you don't how do I know if I'm
getting really really good advice? And how do I know
if maybe I should switch an advisor. I think one
of the first things you want to think about in
terms of the quality advisor that you're with is whether
(23:47):
they're independent. And what I mean by that is, do
they have the ability to recommend to you whatever they
think is in your interests or are they essentially working
for a provider. They're working for a company that sells something,
and no matter what your problem is, the answer is
always going to be buy this thing. Most kiwis are
(24:08):
not with an advisor that has the freedom to give
them the best choice possible. Most kibis are with an
advisor that maybe working at a financial institution and they'll
sell you that institution's thing. So that is now, that's
not exclusive. There's some people that they are in that
space that do it really well. But that is one
thing to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
H Okay, so how do you know that? Do you
just say, do you have the questions you should ask
a financial advisor?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So I was recently, I advisor send me, you know,
a blacked out version of someone's statement where all the
personal informations blacked out, but I can see what they're
invested in. This person has five million dollars invested, and
every single thing they're invested in began with three letters
because the three letters were the institution they were they
had been working with. Yeah, so basically that institution had
(25:00):
put them in their own solutions, their own products. If
you're in that size situation, I would just suggest you
that oftentimes there's better advice available to you. Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
See, I'm instantly just thinking, okay, how and where do
I go? I mean, I would find that bewildering because yea,
ideally what we all want is some magic guru mentor
and I call them up and say, look, who's a
good financial advisor? When they say this person is great
because they're not tight and they give you their answer.
(25:30):
But you have to do It's not that straightforward. Not
many people have a financial risk.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Question you're asking is a great one. How do I
find an advisor? How do I find an advisor? And
you know what, there isn't a great answer to that situation.
I mean the best I can give you is look
at our website right there, because all those people are
great advisors, and so that is a great place to
choose from. And they do talk about what location that
(25:55):
they operate in, so you can always look at your
geography as a way.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh, in terms of people want to have face to
face sort of advice, absolutely, yeah, now' it's I'm gonna
have a look at people qirap dot, Curtin and Z
because anything where you start making some exploration on this
stuff is probably the step in the right direction. But
is it important the individuals who are within a company
as well? Because it's a bit like any organization. There'll
(26:21):
be people who are absolutely rocking and rolling at what
they do and the people who are maybe not so good.
So an organization, well, is it about particular individuals or
is it about the organization?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Let me give you some intuition on this. If you
go and you talk to an advisor and they spend
a lot of time telling you about how they're their
their investments that they use are amazing, and they spend
a lot of time convincing you that they know how
to pick the best investments, be very concerned because that
sounds like a sale. Be very concerned. If you talk
to an advisor and they spend a lot of time
trying to understand you, what what are your what are
(26:55):
your what are the things that that you're passionate? What
are the things that you love? How do you want
to spend your time? How do you want to allocate
your resources? Then they can help you devise a st
a financial strategy to achieve those things. So so just
pay attention to this one thing. How often does the
conversation go back to you and what you want and
(27:16):
what matters to you and the financial resources you have
to build that life. And how often instead does your
your advisor spend talking about how wonderful their investment solutions are.
I think that's a good sign if you're with a
good advisor. The advice should be focused on you and
your needs.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So if they're trying to sell you something first time,
first sign of trouble.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That is a that is a sign of that is
a sign of trouble.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Yeah, look, we're gonna be back in just a moment.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
If you've got any questions for being Ben brink Off
ahead of advice, it's going to sell him some great
information and conversation. We're going to continue it in just
a moment. It is twenty three minutes to six news talks.
He'd be te.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
What's see what's the same name?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
And shine the pressure.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
A billion there and there's the theme for the show
when I'm a billionaire. I'm not sure we're going to
return into billionaires. It's a lot of money. By the way,
when you think I'd like to be a billionaire. It's like,
would you really ten million be enough? How much money
would be enough that will save that for another show?
How much money would be enough for you time? Make
a note of that. I'm Tim Beverages, a smart money.
We've got Ben Brinkoff, head of advice at Concilium in
(28:38):
the in the studio with us. I've got a few
texts for you.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
It if I take out Key WE Saver in a
lump summit retirement, does it get taxed again? If it does,
at what rate? Would it be better to stop putting
in and put in savings account at some point to
get some interest instead of penalty of tax taken off again?
I think they mean does it keep getting taxed on
the interest or something? Once it's I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
When you're with draw key WE Serve, it's not taxed. No,
it's taxed on the way through.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
So whatever money you see in your kdcver account at
sixty five, if you pull that money out, there's no
tax do Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
But if you invest it in a savings account, then
you will get taxed on the interest. Correct.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, you're gonna get You're gonna get taxed on the
interest in either account, so it's not that's not gonna.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah effect, no lump sums to worry about the account.
And I think is the moral of the story with
the American Fed cutting the interest rate, I was on
the conservative and my keywi Saver, I'm now considering going
to balance rather because people will now be investing in
stocks rather than bonds. Is that a good idea from Sue?
I think the way Sues expressed itself is the way
a lot of people just think broadly. It's just like
(29:43):
I reckon, this is down seul shoven in here and
away we go. Not specific financial advice for you, Sue,
but Ben's comments.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yes, Sue, So you know, when I think about a
situation like this, I don't make any changes at all
based on things like what the Fed does. And I'll
tell you why, what do I know about what the
Fed just did? Markets haven't already priced? Yeah, markets have
already priced set information in. In order to actually get
an advantage on the markets, you've got to know something
the market doesn't know. And what the market knows more
(30:14):
than anything is what the Fed does. They that is
that information is already in prices. So there's not an
advantage or disadvantage, but there is an advantage suit of this.
If you go to balance, you'll have more growth assets
in your portfolio. If you hold that for a long
enough time, that is very likely, although not guaranteed, to
leave you with more money at cash in hand in retirement.
(30:35):
That is something you can you can count on. But
trying to outwit the market in terms of what they've
done with interest rate movements is something that it's very hot.
You can't have an informational advantage there.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Did the markets know that the feed was going to
be dropped or was it by point fifty bases points
or whatever? Did they know that or not?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What the market will do is that people have differing opinions.
That's why there's a buyer and seller right.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So bleeding obviously, but it's good to remember.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
So so what happened is it will it will factor
in a rate cut of some variety, and then when
the and when the news becomes certain, then they'll have
maybe a small correction right in that moment. But generally
people have already anticipated these things before they happen.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
When those announcements are made, are they people sitting at
computers ready ahead a button.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Just like I mean, the fact that you say there's
a person hitting a button is like it's it's it's
it is an algorithm, my friend. Right, So for the
for the most part, people have already factored these things in.
It's already priced in. That's a very hard thing to understand,
and I understand, I get why that's not intuitive.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Actually it's funny. I think the moral of the story
that you comes from last time. It's a people are
and when we discussed about making your own investment choices,
and the point you made quite well it's stuck with
me was that unless you really, really really I fe
with stocks and you're passionate about a particular investments, then
(32:14):
you don't do your own investing because there's the market
is always going to be ahead of you, unless you
are just blind lucky like a lotto ticket.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
I guess that's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
So what am I? If I buy something, someone's got
to sell it. Why does that person want to sell it?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
What do I know that the seller doesn't know? What
we both don't know is the news happening in the future, right,
And the news will happen. It will be good or
it will be bad and one of us will end
up better off in the transaction.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
But if either of us or both of us.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Knew that information, you know, we would factor that into
prices and it would already we wouldn't neither of us
would win.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
It does always fascinate me when things are really in
a boom and people are thinking, well, I'm definitely going
to sell because it's not going to go any further.
But and the fact that there are still people to buy.
But that's the whole supply and demand and just that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
That's what makes the market such a beautiful thing, right,
is that it's that information needs to be processed so
that there's buyers and sellers, so that what you're left
with is the buyer takes risk the reward for that,
the seller takes cash and they're happy with that. And
depending on how much uncertainty there isn't a price as
how what someone buys when they buy, So the more uncertainty,
(33:20):
generally speaking, the more return you have to offer me
to take that on.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Now, another question that's come through and from a few texts,
is when is the time to take your money out
of an aggressive fund? So you've decided you've had the
window you've had fifteen years or twenty or thirty or whatever,
and you're getting maybe a few years from retirement. There's
a part of me that sort of thinks, well, look
if i've been it for fifteen years and when I
just hang on to it and take it when I
need it. And that's my layperson sort of thing. Although
(33:50):
the general conversation from most people is like, I'm going
to need my money soon when I need to shift
it to a conservative fund. So what window do you
think people should think about it?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
It's a very individual question because it does depend on
when you want to spend how much you want to spend.
So again, these are things you sit down with someone
and you you work all that out and you figure
out what an allocation is appropriate. But when it's in
your mind that you could spend some of that money,
when you when there's when there's something on the horizon
you can think of, Okay, you know, I could see
(34:22):
I'm going to start to spend some of this money.
You know, maybe it's a couple of years out then
you should be thinking, maybe I want to start to
dial down the amount of shares I have so I
have some cash and bonds and something that's a little
bit more price stable so that when I want to
sell it's there to sell it. But that's very very general.
(34:43):
Generally you want to sit down and with an advisor
to determine is the amount I want to spend sustainable?
If so, is the allocation I have going to support it?
If not? What's the gap? And what do I need
to do about it?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Who decides when it comes to qcyber providers, Because you
were saying that there is the complete spectrum. You can
go incredibly conservative or you can go and credible aggressive.
Absolutely Who decides the language to describe their funds?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I know, right? Like it's it is so confusing. I
hate the word aggressive. You wants to be aggressive? Most
people think Americans are aggressive? Wow, you know, and and
they do so in a in a fairly derogatory way.
Right where the word growth that's or balanced. I want
to be balanced. I'm much more balanced, right.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Well balanced?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It doesn't sounds good.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
That sounds a bout of a snooze though, does it?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, I mean it sounds it sounds like you're having
a bubb each white.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You know, there's a there's a study ones I love
academic studies, and they they gave they gave these two
different groups of people two different funds to choose from.
They said, you got to make a portfolio from these
two funds, right, and one of the in one case
the fund was fifty fifty percent shares fifty percent bonds
and the other and they had to balance that with
someone that was one hundred percent shares. Well, do what
they did.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
They just kind of took.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Fifty percent of each and they got about seventy five
percent shares. The other group they gave two funds, one
was a hundred percent shares and what was one hundred
percent bonds, and that group kind of just took fifty
percent of each and end up with fifty percent shares.
So what happens is people people when they don't know,
they just kind of they kind of just take an
advert on the.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
F So, but is that right for you?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I feel like people are just feel like.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Oh, that's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
That's why I'm saying, it's even people's understanding of risk,
mild risk or whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And so what happens is they take these these surveys
of five or six questions and that it tells you oh,
you should you should be in eighty percent shares, You
should be in fifty percent shares, you should be in
thirty percent shares. Five or six questions? Right, No one
ever describes, Oh, by the way, in twenty years time,
you're gonna have one hundred thousand dollars less because of
that choice. Right, No one actually takes you through that logic.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, Right, We're gonna take another break, can come back?
We got because time is flying. It's ten to six,
but this is news talks. He'd be back, soone center.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Welcome back to the weekend collective.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Of course, if you do want to have a good retirement,
write a song like Hotel California. And it's probably a
license to print money, isn't it, Brand Brinkerhoff? So yeah,
look are they just we've got about I've got three
minutes left. But are there particular warning signs or signs
that people should look out for that it might be
(37:35):
time to change their advisor or their their plan.
Speaker 6 (37:40):
Yeah, there are.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
If you don't know what you need to do to
have the retirement that you want, and if your advisor
has in contacted you in the last year, then change
very simple. Okay, if you know if good advice needs
to be updated with changes of your circumstances. What you
want and what your financial circumstances are, right, so you
need a plan, need a strategy, And if you don't
(38:02):
know what your strategy is, you don't know what the
app is between what you want and where you're cruising,
then that you need to make a change.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
What about your key we saber fund? Are there signs
that you should reach?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
So if you don't know why you're in the key
we severy you're in, then consider a change, or at
least people why am I in? What am I? I
guess I'm in at a fault or or I'm I
went down to the bank and they signed me up
with something I don't really know. Why consider a change?
You're not there on purpose, are they?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
The sort of dot org dot nz website is one
that gets referred to frequently?
Speaker 6 (38:42):
Does it?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Is there any sort of external website and maybe that's
the one that actually assesses the risk profiles sort of
from a third party point of view of different funds,
Like so because one one one funds aggressive fund maybe
completely different in terms of risk profile to another.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
This is what we do. A Kiwi wrap is you
work with an advisor. In the advisor actually as five
hundred or more different options that they can use. So
so the advisor sits there and looks at everything that's
available to and then they determine what is the right
mix of those things for you. And I think that
that is because I think it is an overwhelming thing
and likely to be something that people avoid because they
(39:21):
feel uncomfortable with it.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Hey, believe it or not, that brings the art or
close that has flown by, hasn't it. Well, that's that's
why I love about radio and having a good conversation. Hey,
thanks so much for joining us, Ben. If people want
to check out you want to check out Ben's company,
here is what's what's your job description again?
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Financial head of.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Advice at Concilium.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There we go. It's a Concilium dot co dot NZ.
That's c O N S I L I U E M.
If you're curious about those pages I've referred to in
our conversation, that's on the the key we sabor page.
It's kiwi rap as and w A R sorry w
R A P. And you can see the list of
the drop down list of advice and a whole lot
of an interesting information on there, which I couldn't begin
(40:05):
to describe any further given we've only got thirty seconds left,
so Ben, we'll catch you again. I hope we'll get
you on the show again soon. Yeah, a great thanks
to my producer, Tyra Roberts for her song choices. That's
a sort of that's a mixed thanks because some of
them are great and some of them just dreadful. But
you know, as long as someone's happy, we're all happy.
I'll look for to your company. I'm back filling in
for afternoons for the next couple of weeks as well,
(40:27):
So we'll catch you again, same time tomor not, same
time right tomorrow, twelve o'clock tomorrow, and of course every
weekend for the Weekend Collective at three o'clock. We'll catch
you again soon every great evening.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
talks he'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sedb it.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
But it don't too far because you know it don't
matter anyway, So money money won't get your no barget
too far.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To take.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
What is.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
This is on?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I started talking before I was really ready. There, Welcome
back to the Weekend Collective. This is smart Money. I'm
Tim Beverage. And if you've missed any of the previous hours,
we had Jude Walter in just now for the Health
Up talking about keeping your brain active and fit and
healthy and avoiding stress and just basically keeping your cognitive
health on top. So if you want to listen to
you that, go and check out the podcast. iHeartRadio, look
(01:02):
for the Weekend Collective and for politics, we had an
interview with well Shane Rettie was chatting about nitrous oxide
and how they're clamping down on it. Every time I
think not nutro soxide, I we think of Steve Martin
and as the dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors.
But anyway, the clamping down on nitrosoxide recreationally speaking. But
also we had a chat with Simon Carter as the
(01:23):
Poletry Undersecretary to the Ministry for rom Reform about basically
they're throwing it out and they're going to start again.
Well they have started, and yeah, rom Reform. If you
want to check that out, listen to our podcast. So
but right now it's time for smart money. And my
guest is he's head of advice at Concilium. You can
(01:45):
go and check out their their worker anytime Concilium dot
co dot nz or the Kiwi save a funders Kiwi
rap as in wrapping a present dot co dot nz.
And he is Ben Brinkerhoff.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Gid a Ben.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
How are you going good?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How are you not too bad? Nice to thank you
for coming into the studio.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Good to see you. It's good to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
What's been keeping you out of mischief.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And the money scene?
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I mean, but it's a strange way to put a question.
It sort of is.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I think the best way to stay out of trouble
is to read the newspaper as little as possible, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I might just get you to just pull your microphone
just a little closer there, So there we go, there
we go. We want to talk about key we saver
a bit because for many people when it comes to
the financial investment it's sort of a default thing where
people they're investing in all sorts of things without knowing
it and people, I mean, yeah, so if you've got look,
(02:37):
we're going to talk about key we saver from a
whole bunch of angles as to how often you should
monitor the performance of your key we save it you
just put it away and forget it does past performance?
For instance, you look at someone and go, man, they
have an amazing key we save a fund. Should I
stick my money with them? All those sorts of things
Key we saver it actually, ben how often do you
(02:57):
think people actually look at the performance of their key
we save or is it best? Is it best just
to sort of put it in the bottom drawer and
maybe look at it every so six months.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We'll side that. That's a question with a couple of layers.
But let me just peel back a couple.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
There's an awesome paper written in the past called myopic
lossid version, and my opic just means short.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I'm going to write that down myopic myopic that's short
loss a version, right, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And the premise of this paper was that basically people's
point of view is very short sighted. That's what myopic
means is short sighted. And the more short sighted your
view of your performance is, the more likely you are
to make bad decisions. And so I wrote a paper
once called It's Okay to look Away, Yeah, and I
(03:47):
wrote it during the COVID time period, where was pretty challenging.
And the other waying premise was don't look at your
account balance. You want to set things up to be
done correctly. You should maybe review it once a year,
and I think you should view with an advisor and
(04:07):
determine if you're on track to achieve your goals or
if your goals have changed, if your strategy needs to change.
All that's good stuff, right, But looking at your key
saver balance regularly is more likely to lead you to
make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, it's like it's like, if you're buying and selling
shares and it was your hobby to do your own
make your own choices, probably following them every day wouldn't
necessarily lead you to the right decisions. Of course, then again,
if they suddenly went up in value a lot, it
would have been useful to follow them. But that's not
the game.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Machan, the number one person that looks at car ads
car sellers, people that just bought a car or really, yeah,
so you just buy a car and you're looking at ads,
why just to make sure you've got a good deal.
I think when people make when they change their investments around,
they're going to look at them a lot, decide to
make a good choice and make a bad choice. I
(04:55):
think it leads to a lot of people being unsettled overall.
I don't think looking at your key saver balance that
often no idea.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Are there actually investments it does if you are taking
hands on approach, are there investments where it does pay
to keep a regular eye on them? Because of course,
key that's the thing with key we Saver people aren't
key we Saber managers because they're idiots. They are on
the job for you all the time. But whereas I guess,
if you are managing your own personal, individualized investments, then
(05:27):
obviously you're you're going to keep an eye on that.
For instance, if you're you're choosing your own stocks in
the share market, you've got ten companies that you've invested in,
you probably will monitor their performance more regularly. But that's
a completely different game, isn't It's a.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Completely different game. And by the way, don't don't don't
do that. Don't don't that you're Key we saver balance
on ten stocks.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I No, I wasn't saying that. I'm just talking about
different the reasons you might keep an eye on your
investor totally.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
If you're in and yet and they're in that kind
of situation and you are basically the manager of your
own investments, yeah, then maybe maybe it makes sense, you know,
But I just suggest that that the key Saver is
one area where we're diversification and maybe taking a different approach.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Piece are You've raised a couple of things there which
I might I wouldn't mind digging into, because how many
people do you think actually have a goal with the
key we save it? And and the reason I asked
that is because we generally have If you are an employee,
your employer may put in I'm not sure what the
(06:31):
rules are because I'm self employed, which is, let's not
dig into that, but say three percent or something or
two or three percent. And I wonder if people just
sort of go, well, this is what Key we Saver
it does, and I've got this amount, but they don't
actually ever stop to think what the goal is. They
just know that there's money going in that.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Oh you've hit I don't know if you if you
thought about that too much ahead of time, but you've
actually completely hit on the issue is that with keysaver,
you want to have, you want to be intentional, what
do you actually want to achieve? And you think about
you don't have a huge number of choices to make
(07:08):
in kiv saver, but boy that it can be dramatic
the impact of the choices that you make over maybe
a twenty thirty, maybe a forty year time arise. And
if you start when you're twenty five, you cash out
when you're sixty five, that is a long time for
those choices to compound. And I'm American, right, so, for
(07:28):
for better or for worse, I tend to be overly
friendly with people. And I'm on I'm on the airplane
and I'm asking I ask people what they're doing in
their kiwisaver, and they are you California?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I am California because you can check out, but you
can never leave.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Let's not get into the deep spiritual sense.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
That's on California.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, anyway.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Carry on well, and you talk to people about kivsaver
and you say, well, based on what you want to
spend in your future, what amount of what you need
is ever we're going to cover? You know, is it
going to cover forty percent of what you need? Is
it going to cover sixty percent of what you need?
Is it going to cover everything that you need? And
(08:13):
what's your plan to fund the difference?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I reckon people find that, and I'm probably speaking personally
as well, there's a part of I think there's a
huge amount of I'm not sure if the word is
procrastination or avoidance, because people don't want to know what
that means when they set their goal this is what
I want, It's like, well, this is how far away
from that you are? How often do people avoid it
because they just you know, we're living in high we've
(08:41):
been living in under high inflation. The costs of buying
a house is people who are pessimistic about a bunch
of things. I reckon, a lot of people put that
stuff in the bottom drawn. That's why they just leave
it to the employer contribution and whatever they have to
stick in and go to sleep.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
You know that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, listen, you know, if you don't have a plan,
You'll get somewhere. It just may not be where you intended.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Right, So sounds like that, it sounds like a lyric
from that song again, But it's probably not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
As long as that's an acceptable outcome, that you you
end up where you ended up, and perhaps that's okay
because you wouldn't have known the difference. But when you
actually know where you want, or you have an idea
of what you want. I talk to some people sometimes
and they're just desperate because they think I'm not going
to be successful. I've I've waited too long. It's it's
(09:30):
it's passed me by. But but you can actually sit
down and still form a strategy and people can go
from maybe hopeless to go like, you know, this might
actually work out.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And I says something to be said for even if
you know maybe it's not the answer you want, the
fact of taking control of your finances, it's actually in
its own right, no matter how good or bad the
outcome is, there's something about it that is actually liberating
because you're finally in control and you know what you're
doing absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You feel you feel like, well, this is where I'm
at and I'm not in denial anymore, and I actually
have a strategy to make the best out of the
choices I have left.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
We Actually, i'd like to hear from you on this.
I eight one hundred eighty t and eighty. Have you
stopped to think of a particular financial goal or do
you sort of just do different things, Like I'll stick
a bit of extra money into ki we sab because
I think I need to save some more, But you
have no idea what that's going to amount to in
the end. You just sort of think this is what
I'm going to do because I think I should. It's
(10:29):
but like people want to buy get into the residential
property market, they may not have the actual financial goal
in mind, but they'll go, well, apparently this is the
place to be. So I'm going to stick some money
in because I should. I'm actually quite curee I'll be
cursed to know how many people actually have a goal.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I ran the numbers recently, and well, if you took
like a thirty year old and I know that this
sounds like like a big salary, but I want to
think about it from the sink of a professional, because
that was the audience I was thinking about. A thirty
year old who was on one hundred thousand dollars a
year and just put in three percent. Poor, you're putting
three percent and you know, saved age sixty five. That
person ended up some way. If you look at the math,
(11:08):
like at three hundred ffty thousand dollars balance, but at that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Same person's going to be bitter them that you just said,
Actually I thought that was going to be I was
surprised at what it was that much.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Three and fifty thousand dollars balance. It isn't as much
as it should be because you know that's that's three
and fifty thousand and thirty five years from now. What's
the purchasing power of that. It's not as great as
it sounds. It's maybe half of what it is now.
If that same person allocated into an aggressive portfolio and
put in six percent, they'd end up with three or
(11:38):
four times the balance. You know, that's that's a life
altering difference to end up with three hundred thousand, to
end up with one point two million, And those two
outcomes are both possible for the thirty year old who's
who's a high earner based on just increasing their personal
contributions and allocating more aggressively, course, more aggressively. You allocied,
(12:02):
there's gonna be ups and downs. We can talk about
that later if you well, I'd love to talk about that. Actually,
I would love to know what you wanted. Of course, Ben,
he's got a few clues about investing. In fact, the
last time I on the show, there are a couple
of things that you said that really did stick with me.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
So you did well there.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
But Brent Ben Brenkerhoff is my guest. He's head of
advice at Concilium. You can check out Concilium dot code
on ZID. They also have their own Keiwi Saber Fund,
which is key we rap as in wrapping a present
dot code dot nz. We'd like to take your calls
any questions you've got about Kiwi Saber and Ben and
I have lots to talk about. So we'll be back
in just a moment. It's so eighteen minutes past five
(12:39):
news talks.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
He'd be and welcome back.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
My guest is Ben Bronkohoff, head of advice at Concilium.
Actually I say Concilium, Ben, just quickly, what does Concilium do?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
What's your bag?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Baby?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So Concilium's job is basically to help independent advisors stay independent.
So we provide a lot of the services, consulting, a
lot of the research and software required for an independent advisor,
not out to sell someone's stuff.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
So excellent.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
So, look, we've got a lot of questions about can
we say we went to the break just with the
questions around aggressive funds? And I mean there are generally
three types of fund are there is three or four?
There's conservative, balanced and aggressive and maybe there's somewhere but.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
There's there's some nuancewers there ten but you you can
stick with those if you want.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay, So aggressive, you were talking about over a you know,
say a thirty year old decides they're going to stick
a certain percentagen and the difference between being in a
more conservative fund to aggressive and the potential money that
they could end up having. I guess the first question
would be over what time period? So aggressive? Obviously you
are more susceptible to the rises and the falls in
(13:47):
the market. So is there a time period where the
risks of being in an aggressive fund are at at
a point where you know what, you're okay, if you're
in this for ten years, don't worry, or five years
or what's the sort of minimum time to be in
an aggressive fund. Yeah, so not spific.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I think people that invest in keV saver mess this up,
and I'll tell you how they mess it up because
they think I'm going to reach sixty five and then oh,
I got ten years until sixty five. Therefore my time
arison is ten years. I'm fifty five. Well, no, when
do you want to spend the money? Your time horizon
is not based on when you reach the age of
the that you can pull the money out. Your time
(14:27):
horizon should be the time until you spend down the money,
and if you have fifteen years, then you can then aggressive.
An aggressive allocation is perfectly fine, but it's actually more
nuanced of that. And let me explain this. When you
are saving regularly right that means money's going in every
couple of weeks right from your paycheck, then being in
(14:49):
an aggressive allocation makes a lot of sense typically because
if prices are down and you're a buyer, that's good. Yeah,
so I want you. I want to give everyone in
the mind if they're in KIV saver right now, they're
regularly contributing.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
They're a buyer.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
If there was a recession and prices went down, they're
not harmed because they're buying at low prices. Now who
are they buying from. They're buying from people that are selling. Yeah, well,
if if there's a recession of prices are down, you're
a seller, that's a lot more harmful. So when you're
become when you transition from becoming a buyer and you
become a seller, you want to have some securities in
(15:25):
your portfolio that you can sell that aren't very price sensitive,
cash term deposits, fixed interest, things like this, so that
when prices are down, you're not forced to sell at
low prices. But if you're buying them, you're buying every
couple of weeks and prices are low because of recession,
the stock markets are down, and that doesn't harm you
very much because you're buying at low prices.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So what I'm hearing there is if I was what
even my fund is, Let's let's pretend I'm in a
conservative fund and we should aggressive, we should talk. I'm
not in a concert fund, don't worry. I'm in balance.
But I'm a bit passive on this because you know,
mortgages and all sorts of cost of expence. So I
haven't been a great contributor. I'm hearing that right now.
(16:09):
The GDP data and all that sort of data data
is we're not rocking and rolling as an economy at
the moment. So intuitally, what I just heard you say
is probably now is a good time to switch to
an aggressive fund. Yeah, I believe I've got enough time.
What is it fifteen years?
Speaker 6 (16:27):
You say?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, I kind of think about fifteen years if you're
an aggressive portfolio, that would be ninety percent or more
in shares as opposed to cash and bonds and things.
So if you have that kind of time horizon. Now,
I think the idea of when you should be in
and we should get out is really tricky because the
share market is a prediction. It's a prediction of future prices,
(16:50):
so it's really hard to know when to get in
and when to get out.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And you are reminding me of our earlier conversation as well,
because it was about people watching the shear market and
thinking when's a good time to buy, and you are like,
the market is always going to be ahead of you.
Speaker 6 (17:02):
Buddy, That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
So I don't think that that's a good idea, but
I do think that when people are regularly buying, they
they're partially insulated from the effects of down markets because
if the markets are down, then they can purchase at
low prices and that helps to blunt the effect of
those low prices.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
But if you're constantly buying, you're also buying when the
market is inflated as well.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
That's right, but no one cares. When the market's in flavor,
they're super happy because they look at their balance and
there they're an aggressive allocation and it's it's done really well,
So psychologically.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
They are they're happy.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The problem with us that with the idea of when
the market's high is the market, over any length of
time generally trends one direction, so it's always going to
go get higher. So the idea when it's high, if
it's at an all time high, does that mean it's
going to fall? No, that doesn't mean that at all.
It's very hard to know these things.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Because the issue that you've.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Maybe touched on is it's one thing to decide when
you're going to get into an aggressive fund. And I
guess the answer is as early as possible.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
That's the answer.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Okay, as possible that that is the answer.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
You know, but of course I listen.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
This isn't advice and not if someone someone, if someone
is has a has a frame of mind that when
markets are volatile they really lose sleep and it's highly
uncomfortable for them, then they should understand that that they
can go more conservative to balance or a conservative but
the implication of is that they will likely, over a
(18:32):
long period of time end up with less money. So
here's the tension.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
What is risk?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Is risk the fear or the risk of prices going
up and down a little bit or even a lot
over a short term time period. Or is risk that
I might not have as much money as I want
when I want to spend it.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You know that that is what is risk? Well, actually
that is also inadvertently. There's another question that comes out
of that is we all understand risk in our own
lay person sort of way, like I might hear aggressive
fund is more risky. But do I really have any
(19:13):
idea what the actual risk is and what that means
because we all just have our own subjective Because some
of us I've got I mean, I've got a maide
of mine who's I produce concerts from time to time,
and I consider that pretty risky?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
What a mine?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Who does it all the time? And he will have
moments where he thinks, oh, that's not very risky. That
would terrify someone else. So his perception of risk is
completely different. So how can we, ever, as key we
savor investors, which most of it many of us are,
How can we really understand what the risk is because
it's almost Some people might think, okay, you've got conservative.
(19:50):
Let's just pretend there's three. We've got conservative, balanced and
aggressive and aggressive. His picture is more risky and some
people will see that as being that's a bit more risky,
but what the hell other people be thinking it's a
lot more risky.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
There's no way.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So how do we under stand what risk is? And
can we Saiva?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, the number one thing I think you should do
is get an advisor, right because the ultimately what you're
trying to solve, the question you're trying to ask is
is the two types of risk I'm trying to trade
off is the risk of price movements to go up
and down, and that makes me uncomfortable when so when
markets go down, how much is my portfolio likely to
(20:29):
go down?
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Or could it go down?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But the other risk that no one ever talks about,
or pays attention to, or knows intuitively, is what's the
risk that I won't be able to spend what I
want to spend when I want to spend it. And
what's the risk that's actually the more salient risk of
the two price movements? You know, does anyone care now
what price movements were ten or twenty years ago? Yet
your allocation to growth stocks ten or twenty years ago
(20:53):
would have a big impact on how much money you
have available today to spend if you want to start
spending today.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Drill into one more question. I'm dying to ask that
about that even the you've sort of probably answered a
question if you know how with statistics there's a bell curve. Yeah,
and at the fringes, you know, the majority of action
takes place in the middle, sort of thirty forty percent
or whatever. When it comes to key we savor portfolios
are any of the risks at the extreme of the
(21:24):
spectrum where they are either extremely conservative or extremely risky,
or are they all sort of more within a narrower band.
If you're talking about conservative, balanced growth, and aggressive.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You absolutely can take a kV server allocation that can
be at the ends of those those you can you
can be virtually all in cash or you can be
virtually all in just a few shares, depending on the
keV server that you're thinking about. So yeah, there's a
wide spectrum. But the question you should be asking yourself
is does the allocation I'm in is it likely to
(22:01):
achieve what I want?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And how do you know?
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I think?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think, I think for most people they need to
get advice. But if you don't want to get advice,
you certainly avail yourself with the tools on sordid dot
co dot nz and and take and take those sorts
of tools available to you. But like on our website
kivi RAP, we have a list of advisors you can
go to. All these people give advice on retirement portfolios
and it's good and those are the kind of people
(22:26):
you might How does figure out what you want? Most
people don't even know what they want, tim So it's
like the question is very difficult to answer. They say, well, well,
I have enough, Well I don't even know what I need.
I don't I mean, how do I how do I
even get to think about the question I I if
I have enough? Or mine I'm going to be funded
through Kiwisaver. There's so many questions you need to answer
(22:46):
even before that, questions relevant how does it go.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
With Actually I've just gone on to your the Kiwi
rap site that you guys have for your kiwisaver, and
it says find an advisor And my head's spinning because
there's a lot on there. So you know, how do
you how do you make a choice there? And and
how does it work with the funcial advisor? Because I
have had people who are personal personal financial advisors who say,
(23:11):
to be honest, it's expensive sometimes if you want to
get personalized financial advice, how does it work?
Speaker 6 (23:18):
Well, I have a lot to say about that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well that's good because we're here to talk.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
So see.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You know, advice is not a commodity. It varies widely
in quality, and I understand how intimidating that is. You know,
so you you don't how do I know if I'm
getting really really good advice? And how do I know
if maybe I should switch an advisor. I think one
of the first things you want to think about in
terms of the quality advisor that you're with is whether
(23:47):
they're independent. And what I mean by that is, do
they have the ability to recommend to you whatever they
think is in your interests or are they essentially working
for a provider. They're working for a company that sells something,
and no matter what your problem is, the answer is
always going to be buy this thing. Most kiwis are
(24:08):
not with an advisor that has the freedom to give
them the best choice possible. Most kibis are with an
advisor that maybe working at a financial institution and they'll
sell you that institution's thing. So that is now, that's
not exclusive. There's some people that they are in that
space that do it really well. But that is one
thing to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
H Okay, so how do you know that? Do you
just say, do you have the questions you should ask
a financial advisor?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So I was recently, I advisor send me, you know,
a blacked out version of someone's statement where all the
personal informations blacked out, but I can see what they're
invested in. This person has five million dollars invested, and
every single thing they're invested in began with three letters
because the three letters were the institution they were they
had been working with. Yeah, so basically that institution had
(25:00):
put them in their own solutions, their own products. If
you're in that size situation, I would just suggest you
that oftentimes there's better advice available to you. Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
See, I'm instantly just thinking, okay, how and where do
I go? I mean, I would find that bewildering because yea,
ideally what we all want is some magic guru mentor
and I call them up and say, look, who's a
good financial advisor? When they say this person is great
because they're not tight and they give you their answer.
(25:30):
But you have to do It's not that straightforward. Not
many people have a financial risk.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Question you're asking is a great one. How do I
find an advisor? How do I find an advisor? And
you know what, there isn't a great answer to that situation.
I mean the best I can give you is look
at our website right there, because all those people are
great advisors, and so that is a great place to
choose from. And they do talk about what location that
(25:55):
they operate in, so you can always look at your
geography as a way.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh, in terms of people want to have face to
face sort of advice, absolutely, yeah, now' it's I'm gonna
have a look at people qirap dot, Curtin and Z
because anything where you start making some exploration on this
stuff is probably the step in the right direction. But
is it important the individuals who are within a company
as well? Because it's a bit like any organization. There'll
(26:21):
be people who are absolutely rocking and rolling at what
they do and the people who are maybe not so good.
So an organization, well, is it about particular individuals or
is it about the organization?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Let me give you some intuition on this. If you
go and you talk to an advisor and they spend
a lot of time telling you about how they're their
their investments that they use are amazing, and they spend
a lot of time convincing you that they know how
to pick the best investments, be very concerned because that
sounds like a sale. Be very concerned. If you talk
to an advisor and they spend a lot of time
trying to understand you, what what are your what are
(26:55):
your what are the things that that you're passionate? What
are the things that you love? How do you want
to spend your time? How do you want to allocate
your resources? Then they can help you devise a st
a financial strategy to achieve those things. So so just
pay attention to this one thing. How often does the
conversation go back to you and what you want and
(27:16):
what matters to you and the financial resources you have
to build that life. And how often instead does your
your advisor spend talking about how wonderful their investment solutions are.
I think that's a good sign if you're with a
good advisor. The advice should be focused on you and
your needs.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So if they're trying to sell you something first time,
first sign of trouble.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That is a that is a sign of that is
a sign of trouble.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Yeah, look, we're gonna be back in just a moment.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
If you've got any questions for being Ben brink Off
ahead of advice, it's going to sell him some great
information and conversation. We're going to continue it in just
a moment. It is twenty three minutes to six news talks.
He'd be te.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
What's see what's the same name?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
And shine the pressure.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
A billion there and there's the theme for the show
when I'm a billionaire. I'm not sure we're going to
return into billionaires. It's a lot of money. By the way,
when you think I'd like to be a billionaire. It's like,
would you really ten million be enough? How much money
would be enough that will save that for another show?
How much money would be enough for you time? Make
a note of that. I'm Tim Beverages, a smart money.
We've got Ben Brinkoff, head of advice at Concilium in
(28:38):
the in the studio with us. I've got a few
texts for you.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
It if I take out Key WE Saver in a
lump summit retirement, does it get taxed again? If it does,
at what rate? Would it be better to stop putting
in and put in savings account at some point to
get some interest instead of penalty of tax taken off again?
I think they mean does it keep getting taxed on
the interest or something? Once it's I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
When you're with draw key WE Serve, it's not taxed. No,
it's taxed on the way through.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
So whatever money you see in your kdcver account at
sixty five, if you pull that money out, there's no
tax do Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
But if you invest it in a savings account, then
you will get taxed on the interest. Correct.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, you're gonna get You're gonna get taxed on the
interest in either account, so it's not that's not gonna.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah effect, no lump sums to worry about the account.
And I think is the moral of the story with
the American Fed cutting the interest rate, I was on
the conservative and my keywi Saver, I'm now considering going
to balance rather because people will now be investing in
stocks rather than bonds. Is that a good idea from Sue?
I think the way Sues expressed itself is the way
a lot of people just think broadly. It's just like
(29:43):
I reckon, this is down seul shoven in here and
away we go. Not specific financial advice for you, Sue,
but Ben's comments.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yes, Sue, So you know, when I think about a
situation like this, I don't make any changes at all
based on things like what the Fed does. And I'll
tell you why, what do I know about what the
Fed just did? Markets haven't already priced? Yeah, markets have
already priced set information in. In order to actually get
an advantage on the markets, you've got to know something
the market doesn't know. And what the market knows more
(30:14):
than anything is what the Fed does. They that is
that information is already in prices. So there's not an
advantage or disadvantage, but there is an advantage suit of this.
If you go to balance, you'll have more growth assets
in your portfolio. If you hold that for a long
enough time, that is very likely, although not guaranteed, to
leave you with more money at cash in hand in retirement.
(30:35):
That is something you can you can count on. But
trying to outwit the market in terms of what they've
done with interest rate movements is something that it's very hot.
You can't have an informational advantage there.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Did the markets know that the feed was going to
be dropped or was it by point fifty bases points
or whatever? Did they know that or not?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What the market will do is that people have differing opinions.
That's why there's a buyer and seller right.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So bleeding obviously, but it's good to remember.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
So so what happened is it will it will factor
in a rate cut of some variety, and then when
the and when the news becomes certain, then they'll have
maybe a small correction right in that moment. But generally
people have already anticipated these things before they happen.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
When those announcements are made, are they people sitting at
computers ready ahead a button.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Just like I mean, the fact that you say there's
a person hitting a button is like it's it's it's
it is an algorithm, my friend. Right, So for the
for the most part, people have already factored these things in.
It's already priced in. That's a very hard thing to understand,
and I understand, I get why that's not intuitive.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Actually it's funny. I think the moral of the story
that you comes from last time. It's a people are
and when we discussed about making your own investment choices,
and the point you made quite well it's stuck with
me was that unless you really, really really I fe
with stocks and you're passionate about a particular investments, then
(32:14):
you don't do your own investing because there's the market
is always going to be ahead of you, unless you
are just blind lucky like a lotto ticket.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
I guess that's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
So what am I? If I buy something, someone's got
to sell it. Why does that person want to sell it?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
What do I know that the seller doesn't know? What
we both don't know is the news happening in the future, right,
And the news will happen. It will be good or
it will be bad and one of us will end
up better off in the transaction.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
But if either of us or both of us.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Knew that information, you know, we would factor that into
prices and it would already we wouldn't neither of us
would win.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
It does always fascinate me when things are really in
a boom and people are thinking, well, I'm definitely going
to sell because it's not going to go any further.
But and the fact that there are still people to buy.
But that's the whole supply and demand and just that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
That's what makes the market such a beautiful thing, right,
is that it's that information needs to be processed so
that there's buyers and sellers, so that what you're left
with is the buyer takes risk the reward for that,
the seller takes cash and they're happy with that. And
depending on how much uncertainty there isn't a price as
how what someone buys when they buy, So the more uncertainty,
(33:20):
generally speaking, the more return you have to offer me
to take that on.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Now, another question that's come through and from a few texts,
is when is the time to take your money out
of an aggressive fund? So you've decided you've had the
window you've had fifteen years or twenty or thirty or whatever,
and you're getting maybe a few years from retirement. There's
a part of me that sort of thinks, well, look
if i've been it for fifteen years and when I
just hang on to it and take it when I
need it. And that's my layperson sort of thing. Although
(33:50):
the general conversation from most people is like, I'm going
to need my money soon when I need to shift
it to a conservative fund. So what window do you
think people should think about it?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
It's a very individual question because it does depend on
when you want to spend how much you want to spend.
So again, these are things you sit down with someone
and you you work all that out and you figure
out what an allocation is appropriate. But when it's in
your mind that you could spend some of that money,
when you when there's when there's something on the horizon
you can think of, Okay, you know, I could see
(34:22):
I'm going to start to spend some of this money.
You know, maybe it's a couple of years out then
you should be thinking, maybe I want to start to
dial down the amount of shares I have so I
have some cash and bonds and something that's a little
bit more price stable so that when I want to
sell it's there to sell it. But that's very very general.
(34:43):
Generally you want to sit down and with an advisor
to determine is the amount I want to spend sustainable?
If so, is the allocation I have going to support it?
If not? What's the gap? And what do I need
to do about it?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Who decides when it comes to qcyber providers, Because you
were saying that there is the complete spectrum. You can
go incredibly conservative or you can go and credible aggressive.
Absolutely Who decides the language to describe their funds?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I know, right? Like it's it is so confusing. I
hate the word aggressive. You wants to be aggressive? Most
people think Americans are aggressive? Wow, you know, and and
they do so in a in a fairly derogatory way.
Right where the word growth that's or balanced. I want
to be balanced. I'm much more balanced, right.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Well balanced?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It doesn't sounds good.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
That sounds a bout of a snooze though, does it?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, I mean it sounds it sounds like you're having
a bubb each white.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You know, there's a there's a study ones I love
academic studies, and they they gave they gave these two
different groups of people two different funds to choose from.
They said, you got to make a portfolio from these
two funds, right, and one of the in one case
the fund was fifty fifty percent shares fifty percent bonds
and the other and they had to balance that with
someone that was one hundred percent shares. Well, do what
they did.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
They just kind of took.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Fifty percent of each and they got about seventy five
percent shares. The other group they gave two funds, one
was a hundred percent shares and what was one hundred
percent bonds, and that group kind of just took fifty
percent of each and end up with fifty percent shares.
So what happens is people people when they don't know,
they just kind of they kind of just take an
advert on the.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
F So, but is that right for you?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I feel like people are just feel like.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Oh, that's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
That's why I'm saying, it's even people's understanding of risk,
mild risk or whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And so what happens is they take these these surveys
of five or six questions and that it tells you oh,
you should you should be in eighty percent shares, You
should be in fifty percent shares, you should be in
thirty percent shares. Five or six questions? Right, No one
ever describes, Oh, by the way, in twenty years time,
you're gonna have one hundred thousand dollars less because of
that choice. Right, No one actually takes you through that logic.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, Right, We're gonna take another break, can come back?
We got because time is flying. It's ten to six,
but this is news talks. He'd be back, soone center.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Welcome back to the weekend collective.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Of course, if you do want to have a good retirement,
write a song like Hotel California. And it's probably a
license to print money, isn't it, Brand Brinkerhoff? So yeah,
look are they just we've got about I've got three
minutes left. But are there particular warning signs or signs
that people should look out for that it might be
(37:35):
time to change their advisor or their their plan.
Speaker 6 (37:40):
Yeah, there are.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
If you don't know what you need to do to
have the retirement that you want, and if your advisor
has in contacted you in the last year, then change
very simple. Okay, if you know if good advice needs
to be updated with changes of your circumstances. What you
want and what your financial circumstances are, right, so you
need a plan, need a strategy, And if you don't
(38:02):
know what your strategy is, you don't know what the
app is between what you want and where you're cruising,
then that you need to make a change.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
What about your key we saber fund? Are there signs
that you should reach?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
So if you don't know why you're in the key
we severy you're in, then consider a change, or at
least people why am I in? What am I? I
guess I'm in at a fault or or I'm I
went down to the bank and they signed me up
with something I don't really know. Why consider a change?
You're not there on purpose, are they?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
The sort of dot org dot nz website is one
that gets referred to frequently?
Speaker 6 (38:42):
Does it?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Is there any sort of external website and maybe that's
the one that actually assesses the risk profiles sort of
from a third party point of view of different funds,
Like so because one one one funds aggressive fund maybe
completely different in terms of risk profile to another.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
This is what we do. A Kiwi wrap is you
work with an advisor. In the advisor actually as five
hundred or more different options that they can use. So
so the advisor sits there and looks at everything that's
available to and then they determine what is the right
mix of those things for you. And I think that
that is because I think it is an overwhelming thing
and likely to be something that people avoid because they
(39:21):
feel uncomfortable with it.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Hey, believe it or not, that brings the art or
close that has flown by, hasn't it. Well, that's that's
why I love about radio and having a good conversation. Hey,
thanks so much for joining us, Ben. If people want
to check out you want to check out Ben's company,
here is what's what's your job description again?
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Financial head of.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Advice at Concilium.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There we go. It's a Concilium dot co dot NZ.
That's c O N S I L I U E M.
If you're curious about those pages I've referred to in
our conversation, that's on the the key we sabor page.
It's kiwi rap as and w A R sorry w
R A P. And you can see the list of
the drop down list of advice and a whole lot
of an interesting information on there, which I couldn't begin
(40:05):
to describe any further given we've only got thirty seconds left,
so Ben, we'll catch you again. I hope we'll get
you on the show again soon. Yeah, a great thanks
to my producer, Tyra Roberts for her song choices. That's
a sort of that's a mixed thanks because some of
them are great and some of them just dreadful. But
you know, as long as someone's happy, we're all happy.
I'll look for to your company. I'm back filling in
for afternoons for the next couple of weeks as well,
(40:27):
So we'll catch you again, same time tomor not, same
time right tomorrow, twelve o'clock tomorrow, and of course every
weekend for the Weekend Collective at three o'clock. We'll catch
you again soon every great evening.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
talks he'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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